South India River Water Issues/Disputes

vina · Post by **vina** » 29 Dec 2011 10:33

Sachin wrote:This is a point, which I think Keralites should learn. The state cannot be a "consumer state" for ever. Socialism, parippuvada-ism etc. have made sure that Kerala buys every thing from outside. Infact even the rice we eat. If these do not reach the borders for some reason, the state would go for a six. The only solace is that there would also be a few enterpreneurs who will lose money because their products etc. dont reach the end customers. I dont think TN farmers also would like to see plaintains, eggs, poultry all sitting idle because it cannot move across the borders.

I really don't see this "consumer" state as a problem. Indeed, I would encourage it and make Kerala focus on it's comparative advantages (not Prippuvada-ism and Socialism of course) and trade. I pray that the politocos see sense and implement the GST and the interstate movements of goods and services (it is ridiculous, every state in India behaves like a hermitically sealed country and tries to "protect" industries within the state boundaries) and that these check posts and octroi posts at Hosur and Kerala /TN/, TN/AP and every state border is removed forever. USA got that part right when it made interstate commerce a federal subject right at the beginning.

True, TN farmers need markets outside TN as well and Kerala as the most proximate market for south TN produce is extremely important. The relationship is symbiotic. And no , sorry to disappoint Dileep and Bade Mian, neither TN nor KA have any excess to ship to Kerala.

On the contrary, much of the produce in Bangalore and most of southern KA comes from TN, specifically Ooty/Kodai kind of areas and other areas in TN like Erode etc, which is a total dynamo when it comes to veggies, eggs, poultry, milk and meat prodn. Elections in TN, heavy rains in TN and the effect in Bangalore is immediately felt. There really is no getting away it.

Folks like Sachin have an alternate route, albeit a bit longer . We can go via the Karnataka->Kerala border at Muthanga or Tholpetty. Only problem is the longer distance, and night travel which is banned. Infact we took this route to avoid Vaikol* and his chums at Walayar.

True, you can go via KA, but that route is a total PITA (pain in the A$$) , longer (distance wise, time wise much much more because of not Golden Quadri std roads) etc and lets face it, that single route and railway line in no way can take the kind of traffic that Kerala generates (both road and rail) and if going to AP/ East coast, that sounds plainly silly.

Vaiko and similar ridiculousness apart, this "rasta roko" business as a means of political mobilization and agit prop must be totally banned and made "verbotten" in Indian politics. I cannot imagine any other civilized democracy where this "Rasta Roko" business and being a total disruptive nuisance is an accepted political method.

And oh, the first place to start that ban would of course be in the DPRK(erala) and the PRP(People's republic of Paschim Banga) , given the amount of man hours , nay years that gets wasted due this kind of Commie agit prop.

* Can this word be added to the BR dictionary. The word means "hay" in Malayalam .

Now, now.. Don't start a fight over that.

. The folks on the Tamil side will jump in and say that the word (Vaikol == hay) is Tamil in origin and Malayalam itself is descended from "old Tamil" and all the rest of it.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Dec 2011 22:49

vina wrote:I really don't see this "consumer" state as a problem. Indeed, I would encourage it and make Kerala focus on it's comparative advantages

Isn't KL already leveraging its comparative advantages. We give free water and get food to eat from our neighbors. We ship our people to take jobs at industrial centers in other states and send revenue (at least a part) home. This is a workable model IMO. KL is for retirement onlee and will remain pristine for all to enjoy (Tourism and Health Tourism) from within and outside. I have no real issue in keeping it that way. All we need is some quality educational institutes and a few initiatives at small scales for local employment. KL does not have to imitate TN and have all polluting industries located within the state, just because they do it and we need to do it too syndrome. Only thing KL needs to do is ensure high quality education, literacy and developing new skill sets for its people that match the global job market. We are already doing it as far as I can see with or without central govt help.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 Dec 2011 01:02

TN produce is cheapest in much of the South, only reason it is relatively dominant. Cheap. Kerala can learn to grow its own food again at greater cost. There used to be a time when Kerala used to grow most of its own food. Now it does not grow food and wastes much of that water into the ocean. One reason so many Keralites moved to Coimbatore is because all the industries moved there, esp. from Palghat area.

Definitely Kerala can become more tourist oriented and market its beauty to the rest of India. Of course #1 customers would be TN folk. Also there is a lot of competition for tourist dollars. TN has its own mountains and hill resorts as well.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2011 01:53

Theo, I would worry seriously about KL only when the populace cannot keep up with changing technology or skill set. Farming is not a productive activity in KL considering the labor costs with respect to cheaper labor available in TN. In fact at construction sites anywhere you go in KL, there is ample evidence of that. People from KL have to focus on keeping themselves at the top of the skill set pyramid to ensure wealth. When they fail to do that, we will have a serious problem at hand.

The high end of tourism sector in KL is catered to by tourists from the Naarth and Videsh or maybe Blr IT-Vity folks too. But regular poorer folks who come on the religious circuit creates more issues than wealth generation locally. So from the outside it looks like a mixed bag without full knowledge of the exact numbers.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2011 06:12

There used to be a time when Kerala used to grow most of its own food. Now it does not grow food and wastes much of that water into the ocean

Dunno. Kerala even in the old old days (my grandparents and their grand parents) didn't have too much variety in way of veggies and food choices .. The veggies were to quote my grandpa Vaazha (plantain),Chena (Yam), White pumpkin and for fruits.. Chakka (ie jackfruit). That is it. Milk was pretty scarce and same with meat (fish excepting of course). He always kept saying.. dai.. these "English vegetables" (ie potato,tomato, carrot, radish, green chillies anything you get in the market these days other than the usual, chena, vaazha and pooshni) "onnum kadayadu" (nothing available).

These 'English vegetables' in S. India today overwhelmingly come from TN, along with the bulk of the poultry and meat. Kerala did have some rice, but the bulk of the big rice producing areas (Nagercoil and the adjoining areas) went to TN.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2011 06:19

Bade wrote:Farming is not a productive activity in KL considering the labor costs with respect to cheaper labor available in TN. In fact at construction sites anywhere you go in KL, there is ample evidence of that..

Farming is unviable in Kerala largely due to lack of scale and highly fragmented land holdings and the "unionization" of farm labor. I think that was for the good only. While this can be laid as a "problem" on the footsteps of the commies, I think it was for the greater good.

Labor costs in TN are pretty high and it is very difficult to get cheap casual labor anymore (at least in the past 10/15 years). TN is no way a labor surplus state now. Forget farming and semi skilled stuff, even construction labor and all that in place like Bangalore are not from the southern states anymore but rather, Orissa, Bihar, NE etc. In Chennai , in a large township project, the labor was 100% from N. India, with the security guards speaking Hindi with me. Chennai and Hindi.. Who would'a thunk that huh? Welcome to the New Yindia, Vanakkam!

Once construction site I recently visited had Oriya labor 100% and they were doing a big time "vishwakarma puja" and had taken the day off. Tamil working class takes off wholesale only on the 2 or 3 days during "Shivratri" (okay Sivan Ratri as they call it) and go off to their native places.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 30 Dec 2011 08:24

Bade saar,
Is it true by definition that industries are polluting?

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 30 Dec 2011 11:47

As late as the eighties, we grew all the vegetables we need. Comparing to the stock at the local veg shop, we didn't grow Tomato, Carrot, Beet, French Beans, Cabbage, Cauliflower, Capsicum. In fact, I hadn't seen a tomato till I visited the city. We never bought any vegetables from outside, except Potato and Onions.

It is not true that we didn't have vegetables. We grew the following regularly:

Vendakka, Vazhuthinanga, Payaru, Amara, Kothamara, Muringa, Padavalanga, Pavakka, Peechinga, Churakka, Kumbalanga, Mathanga, Kaachil, Chena, Chembu, Cheruchembu, Cherukizhangu, Koorkka, Madhurakizhangu,

Even now, there are farmers who grow vegetables. The tropical vegetables like pavakka, padavalanga, payaru etc are grown in volumes in the midlands. Cold weather vegs like tomato, beans etc are grown in Idukki (by TN labour I agree)

The ONLY reason we buy from TN is it is cheaper. It is cheaper because of a)cheap labour b)Economy of scale. Nothing else.

It is neither an essential service, not a monopoly. We didn't get TN vegs for two weeks, and nothing happened. Nothing will happen to us even if the blockade extends forever. More people will get into the farming business here, or lease land in KA. That's all.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2011 12:11

Dileep wrote:Vendakka, Vazhuthinanga, Payaru, Amara, Kothamara, Muringa, Padavalanga, Pavakka, Peechinga, Churakka, Kumbalanga, Mathanga, Kaachil, Chena, Chembu, Cheruchembu, Cherukizhangu, Koorkka, Madhurakizhangu,

Other than those , the other ones are pretty difficult to find in regular veggie shops /streets, atleast here in BLR . Stuff like Cherukizhangu are a total pain to peel, and I dont remember eating them for over 20 years now (tastes wonderful I agree, doubt if my kids will even touch them, SHQ definitely wont).

Lets face it, the modern generation growing up on "English Vegetables" have given the "Naattu" veggies largely a go by, especially the lesser grown ones. Sorry dude, it is largely Potatoes, Onions types only for this day and age. Sad but true. Try pushing the traditional ones to your kids for a weak and you will hear groans all around and demands for potatoes, carrot, cabbages etc.

It is neither an essential service, not a monopoly. We didn't get TN vegs for two weeks, and nothing happened. Nothing will happen to us even if the blockade extends forever. More people will get into the farming business here, or lease land in KA. That's all.

Well, not true. In the long run you will find alternate sources / have it shipped in from somewhere , but some stuff is simply not grown on Kerala (Potatoes for instance,or cabbages, turnips, beets doubt it is grown in Kerala in any scale) . Also, eggs, milk, meat will be in shortage. Fact is Kerala cannot be "self sufficient" , nor can any state for that matter ! I don't think Kerala fancies itself into turning into a DPRK clone with that "Juche" kind of madness.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 30 Dec 2011 12:27

OT:Vazhuthinanga-is it vaazhakaai,padavalangai-is it pudalangai.

Anyone who knows tamizh-malayalam can clarify? TIA.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Dec 2011 12:43

This is a perfect case for why all regions and States should be encouraged to grow produce for their local population. It is economical and energy efficient for people to produce and consume food they eat as near to them as possible.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2011 12:43

svenkat wrote:OT:Vazhuthinanga-is it vaazhakaai,padavalangai-is it pudalangai.

Anyone who knows tamizh-malayalam can clarify? TIA.

Vendakka (Okra), Vazhuthinanga (Brinjal), Payaru (same in Tamil), Amara, Kothamara (kothavararga), Muringa (same), Padavalanga(podalanga /sanke gourd), Pavakka (same, Karela), Peechinga (peerkanga ,I think), Churakka (same), Kumbalanga (same), Mathanga (pumpkin ), Kaachil (dunno) , Chena (same), Chembu(same), Cheruchembu, Cherukizhangu (maybe this is siri kizhangu, dont know), Koorkka (siri kizhangu I think), Madhurakizhangu (sweet potato).,

Dileep left out Kappa (tapico) (same).

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Dec 2011 12:46

OT: Koorkka kizhangu has sooper di dooper taste. Darn it, it takes lots of effort to make it. Elders used a jute bag to first get the 'naaru' and 'skin'. Then finely dice them to make a great roast curry.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 Dec 2011 13:07

The real challenge is getting kids to say these words even. I can't even get mine to say Brinjal, it is Aig-Palant only.

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BTW TN vegetables are cheap for many reasons other than low cost labor. If you ask me labor costs in TN are pretty much up there with costs in Kerala. If you have water there are definite climatic advantages to growing in TN. Lots more sunny day, less disease, delta/bottom lands rich in nutrients, flat terrain to catch sun, less chance of fertilizer being washed off etc. give TN agriculture a natural advantage. Kerala found that out the hard way as now even Coconuts are being imported into Kerala.

Just to give one comparison, with pretty much the same input a farmer in TN river delta's can expect a harvest of 4-5 tonnes per acre of rice. A farmer in Kerala would struggle to get to 2.5 tonnes per acres and even a farmer in the highlands of Coorg or Mandya would struggle to get to 2 Tonnes per acre. In fact many farmers in Kerala were getting yields to 1 tonne per acre or less. There is a reason people settled the delta areas of the world first. No matter how much Kerala farmers try their productivity for unit input is not going to change and hence they will find themselves priced out.

Still they can improve productivity and reduce the use of labor to stay in business. The real shame is farmers let their fields go unplanted rather than sell it so someone else can try. Lack of property tax allows this. But I shouldn't talk, I left my field unplanted this year.
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Also there are real reasons farmers push the newer crops. Productivity. A field of tomato's can be harvested every day, 365 days of the year. Properly harvested Tomato fields can produce 10-20 tonnes of tomatos per acre. Try that with a Poddalangai which fruits for 2 weeks at the end of its life and just once. You would struggle to get even 2 tonnes per acre. And it is so sensitive to the single rain storm and fungus.

Potato's beat the pants off yams and Tapioca's for the same reason. Which BTW about 80% those vegetables are some form of Gourd, Tapioca or Yam. So actually far less variety than it appears at first glance. Not even in the same planet in terms of productivity. 30-40 tonnes per acre is not unknown for Potato. If hunger has subsided in India it is largely due the staggering productivity of these vegetables. Even Marchi Kalangu struggles to get to 4 tonnes an acre.
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BTW how come no one mention Pavakai. My favorite vegetable. Spawn of satan lookalike. Try it out on your kids some time.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 30 Dec 2011 13:09

Isn't KL already leveraging its comparative advantages. We give free water and get food to eat from our neighbors. We ship our people to take jobs at industrial centers in other states and send revenue (at least a part) home. This is a workable model IMO. KL is for retirement onlee and will remain pristine for all to enjoy (Tourism and Health Tourism) from within and outside.

I deliberately removed the name of Bade from here

. Because this is a generic comment from me. We give free water, but we don't get any free food (we pay for it). Leave that aside. But what is happening in Kerala is that we have a large number of old people who stay in (or come back to) Kerala, while the sizeable number of employable people are all gone out of the state. A case where you will have lots of youngsters - unemployed whose main focus would be on criminal activities, rioting - and then a large chunk of old people who just stay put. I share the same worries as of many of my colleagues (in the 30-40 age bracket). How would I take care of our aged relatives? Yes, we do make money (out side the state) and send it across via Money Orders

. But what next? I personally know cases where landed property of old people were usurped by criminal elements next door, just because there was no one to put up a fight.

Kerala cannot have large industrial units. That is pretty much sure. But how about some means where a sizeable number of the middle aged or youngsters find a way to survive in the state itself? (rather than waiting for trains to take them to Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai or for flights to the Gelf)?

This is going off Topic, I know..

.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 30 Dec 2011 13:09

Does TN grow (significant qtys of) Potatoes and Onion? Didn't think so. Anyway, we don't get significant qtys from TN for sure.

It is the regular tropical veggies, eggs and chicken that we buy a lot from TN. Others are not too huge an impact. It's all demand and supply. If it makes economic sense, we will grow stuff here. If it makes sense to buy from KA and AP, we will do that. If it makes sense to lease land in KA and grow, we will do that too.

The point is, TN do not hold a strong hand in this game. KL Does. We have the money, and we can buy from anywhere. You NEED the money, and you got to sell to US to get it.

Get it?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Dec 2011 13:25

Dileep wrote: The point is, TN do not hold a strong hand in this game. KL Does. We have the money, and we can buy from anywhere. You NEED the money, and you got to sell to US to get it.

Get it?

In my opinion, it is a massive self-goal if KL is going to be dependent on others. Money will not rescue from all problems. What will happen if the money source dries up or gets restricted? TN is dependent on KL right now, and look at the commotion.

It is myopic and stupid to think KL or TN hold the upper hand. What does it take for people and BRFites to realize we are all in this together, and we have to live together helping out each other. Geez.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 30 Dec 2011 13:43

Dileep wrote:The point is, TN do not hold a strong hand in this game. KL Does. We have the money, and we can buy from anywhere. You NEED the money, and you got to sell to US to get it.

That is one part sir! TN can virtually put up a siege on Kerala (like what Shri. Vaikol tried). Major roads and railway line enter Kerala through TN. At least in case of most of the commodities (and people) in Kerala. And Kerala does NOT have any plans for "shipping" these stuff into Kerala (using the number of ports and the coast line we have). Kerala may have the money power, but I don't think that is enough. As Master card folks say "Money cannot buy every thing".

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2011 13:50

Dileep wrote:Does TN grow (significant qtys of) Potatoes and Onion? Didn't think so. Anyway, we don't get significant qtys from TN for sure.

Onions are largely from Bellary. Nearly everything else here even in BLR is from TN (including potatoes) and is the main source of veggies for most of S. India (I would guess including most of coastal belt of AP).

It is the regular tropical veggies, eggs and chicken that we buy a lot from TN. Others are not too huge an impact. It's all demand and supply. If it makes economic sense, we will grow stuff here. If it makes sense to buy from KA and AP, we will do that. If it makes sense to lease land in KA and grow, we will do that too.

It would be simply idiotic to do so. It goes against basic economics of comparative advantages and btw, KA and AP dont have the surplus to sell to you either and they too import from TN and for very good reasons I might add. They focus on things that given their climatic conditions and soil does best.

This kind of thinking is the sure fire way to dig yourself deeper into poverty and misery for everyone.

The point is, TN do not hold a strong hand in this game. KL Does. We have the money, and we can buy from anywhere. You NEED the money, and you got to sell to US to get it.

Get it?

Dileep, when there is a scarcity and all you are left holding is paper money, the guy with the REAL goods wins EVERY time. Just a whiff of shortage see prices shoot up in Kerala resulting in huge misery to a lot of people there.
The difference is, the TN farmer dudes can still eat, while you would be literally burning your paper to get it from elsewhere at ridiculous prices.

In fact, this is one lesson I learned very early from my classmates from S.America in the Madrassa. Folks in countries like brazil used to have hyperinflation. The only way to protect your mushrraf is to move out of paper into REAL goods.. anything, metals, land, agri commodities , whatever that has real use in a real economy or of course gold (due to it's severely restricted supply and universal demand). I asked you to get into gold when the dollar sank against the rupee a couple of years ago to Rs 36 or so and if you had held it through the turmoil over the past couple of years , you would have reaped handsome rewards.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 30 Dec 2011 15:01

None of the examples above apply here.

KL have problem only if KA and AP also go Vaikol way and refuse to sell stuff to us. I don't think they would. My only point is, Vaikol thinks that he has upper hand, but I say it is a bluff.

Look, we didn't start it. We never said that we will not buy veggies from TN. We never said that we will not give water to TN either. But if Vaikol says "we will starve you" I will show the middle finger to him, because it is going to harm him more than us.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Dec 2011 15:21

The heavy dependence on 'comparative advantage' is a modern economic thought, no? Where was that thousands of years ago? Were people in the region ridden in poverty? I do not think so. Misery is invited on the people, when they continue on any type of unsustainable buying products from far away places.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2011 16:44

Dileep wrote:None of the examples above apply here.

Indeed they do.

KL have problem only if KA and AP also go Vaikol way and refuse to sell stuff to us. I don't think they would. My only point is, Vaikol thinks that he has upper hand, but I say it is a bluff.

You seem to forget how states in India work. If there is a shortage in Kerala and you start buying from markets in AP and KA and the prices start going up there (they too get it from TN remember and hence have shortages?), those guys will clamp down on movement across borders. TN has done it multiple times in the past wrt rice (esp during DMK rule).

The point is not about Vaiko or this or that . It is immaterial. The sane thing to do is not to go down that idiotic path of competitive mobilization and give folks like Vaiko a reason at all to do similar things in TN. There is simply no reason to do it.

The sanest on this is from Valayar Ravi in this interview

What caused the Tamil Nadu-Kerala tensions over the dam, leading to violence in both states?

Ravi said: “One (Kerala) minister belonging to Kerala Congress (a Congress ally) warned that lakhs would die if the dam were to burst. It was a blatant statement unfortunately. It made a commotion in the state. I don’t blame him; somebody sent a report to him and then a CPI-M channel brought it out and it became an issue.”

Asked if he thought the dam was in danger, Ravi said: “You see no one said when it could break. Tamil Nadu took a position that it will stay for many more years although it is over a hundred years old. So, whose report and what study are we going by? We should have a study.”

Referring to the widespread fears expressed in Kerala, he said: “This is an issue because the area around the dam is inhabited. Livelihood, incomes and exports are all going to be affected. So, it is necessary that the two chief ministers find a solution.”

Should Kerala build a new dam?

“Tamil Nadu’s fear is they control the dam today but who will control the new dam?”

Asked about the political line taken in Tamil Nadu, Ravi said: “Rather than dragging this confrontation, one must reach a compromise. Unfortunately, the attitude of the political parties in Tamil Nadu has also been the same.

Look, we didn't start it. We never said that we will not buy veggies from TN. We never said that we will not give water to TN either. But if Vaikol says "we will starve you" I will show the middle finger to him, because it is going to harm him more than us.

Dileep, despite all of Vaiko's stated intentions and everything, some 40% of regular supplies STILL got into Kerala on TN trucks (no KL trucks came). That is the reason why there was little hardship. Everyone back pedaled, though in public, you wouldn't know it. Fact is, while showing the finger to vaiko, Kerala's geography (and history, culture, links , relationships) are so intertwined with TN's you will shoot yourself badly in the foot doing so and no, I don't think it will harm Vaiko's folks more, it will harm Kerala a lot lot more. Not that it matters who gets hurt more in that kind of idiocy, it will be pathetic all the same, but it helps to keep things in perspective.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2011 19:58

svenkat wrote:Bade saar,
Is it true by definition that industries are polluting?

Venkat, certain industries definitely can be and Kerala geography and unique ecology will make it extremely difficult to have large scale industrialization without concurrent damage to the environment. Just the FACT in Alwaye did immense damage to the neighborhood coconut farms in the 80s, not to mention the pollution levels in the Periyar flowing downstream. Keeping industries clean can come only at a steep price. Population density and higher awareness of such issues will make it difficult to setup such industries in the state. That is what I meant by that comment.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2011 20:01

When I was in Mysore, I was told most of the poultry farms there were owned by Keralites. We just have to invest where there are advantages and do not have to do everything in house.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Dec 2011 20:05

don't address a malloo with "daaaah!", but "dooooh!" is fine. well that is all the problem. water issue can be forgotten, and the dam be reconstructed peacefully.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2011 20:22

Sachin wrote:Kerala cannot have large industrial units. That is pretty much sure. But how about some means where a sizeable number of the middle aged or youngsters find a way to survive in the state itself? (rather than waiting for trains to take them to Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai or for flights to the Gelf)?

We could have had a larger footprint in IT + BPO sector for local employment. I do not what went wrong there ? I personally think it is the constant false image created by the neighbours that KL is a commie state

, when it is largely untrue. Mistaking awareness and free expression of rights with communism is the biggest fraud one can think of. That is why I keep saying KL has a socialist ethos, but it is not a fully commie state.

To make it relevant to this topic, it is this socialist ethos which made KL continue with this 999 yr lease agreement to continue supplying water to TN. You take away the socialist ethos, then TN will get no water even if 100% flows down to the oceans.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 Dec 2011 02:20

BTW I hope everyone is OK afte Cyclone Thane blundered through.

Crops in Northern TN have been devastated. Vegetable crop has essentially been wiped out. It will have to be seen what that does to prices.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Dec 2011 03:44

which are the crops that yields during December?

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 31 Dec 2011 08:38

No crops I believe yields in december, but may be inline for January Pongal festival

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 31 Dec 2011 12:47

Bade wrote: We could have had a larger footprint in IT + BPO sector for local employment. I do not what went wrong there ?

Socialism happened!! Trivandrum was propped up as the IT destination, while blocking attempts to start IT Cos at Kochi. Now, stoopid people like yours truly are fighting cyber-wars, claiming who did what % of the humongous figure of 2500Cr exports last year!!!

(Childish, I know. But read the Wiki pages and SSC discussions)

IMO, If market forces were allowed to take its course, we would have been at least five times of that number.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 31 Dec 2011 12:51

Theo_Fidel wrote:BTW I hope everyone is OK afte Cyclone Thane blundered through.

Crops in Northern TN have been devastated. Vegetable crop has essentially been wiped out. It will have to be seen what that does to prices.

I am sure Vaikol would say it is "kooDothram" or "chathan seva" by the 'malayalathans' that caused this calamity (and burn a few more shops, even people because it's a witchhunt)

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 Dec 2011 21:45

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ind ... ef=wl_home

'Thane' remnant swamps south Kerala, 5 dead

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 01 Jan 2012 05:11

^^^ what is the relevance of above news to river water disputes?

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 01 Jan 2012 11:12

Theo_Fidel wrote:http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ind ... ef=wl_home

'Thane' remnant swamps south Kerala, 5 dead

shyam wrote:^^^ what is the relevance of above news to river water disputes?

Of course its relevant, "Malayalatthans" are wasting water by allowing it to flow to the ocean. If and only if Malayalatthans gave that water to Tamilnadu, they would have grown more vegetables

Who cares about the dead?

Mullaperiyar dam dispute is not about water, its about the dam. Already tamilnadu is getting all the water, I dont see any water dispute. Unfortunately, people refer it as a water dispute. Even in this forum. It seems even APJ has fallen for that. Kerala needs safety nothing else

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Jan 2012 11:25

If malloos were too clever, of course too late to think about it, bought land in TN [especially where the water from KL runs into], and use the produce to sell back to KL. You see, it is all people here fighting, and not the place or geography.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 01 Jan 2012 18:17

^^Actually we did!! Haven't you heard of all the land parcels our politicos and babus have in Theni district?

Seriously, man? Would you put your money, however easily obtained, at a place where the locals would burn it (and yourself, if they could get to that) down when Vaikol/Geriatrix/Fat Lady gets indigestion?

No sah!! I would rather have it in KA. At least they haven't (yet) started shouting "malayaalavaru mane hogu".

Vina says TN trucks had been delivering Vegs, but at least in DMA Proper (youknow, the actual capital of Mahab Ali), there is an egg wholesaler, who got his eggs from AP these days. I know, because he does the transshipment at a yard close to my home, and I see the operations myself. It used to be Namakkal trucks, but it is now AP trucks. there were a few news items in SDRE papers about how the bluff of TN was called.

Like Garud told the Snake sitting on the neck of Shiva "Everyone will be happy if they know where they stand"

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Jan 2012 18:24

Dileep wrote:^^Actually we did!! Haven't you heard of all the land parcels our politicos and babus have in Theni district?

Seriously, man? Would you put your money, however easily obtained, at a place where the locals would burn it (and yourself, if they could get to that) down when Vaikol/Geriatrix/Fat Lady gets indigestion?

No sah!! I would rather have it in KA. At least they haven't (yet) started shouting "malayaalavaru mane hogu".

Vina says TN trucks had been delivering Vegs, but at least in DMA Proper (youknow, the actual capital of Mahab Ali), there is an egg wholesaler, who got his eggs from AP these days. I know, because he does the transshipment at a yard close to my home, and I see the operations myself. It used to be Namakkal trucks, but it is now AP trucks. there were a few news items in SDRE papers about how the bluff of TN was called.

Like Garud told the Snake sitting on the neck of Shiva "Everyone will be happy if they know where they stand"

No sah!! I would rather have it in KA. At least they haven't (yet) started shouting "malayaalavaru mane hogu".

Not yet but the situation is slowly but surely building in that general direction in the cities and towns of KA. The fallout of the gelf returnees setting up shop is already causing local tensions.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 01 Jan 2012 21:38

Rejecting the opposition criticism that the Centre was remaining a mute witness to the Mullaperiyar dam dispute between Kerala and Tamil Nadu, Union Minister Vayalar Ravi on Sunday said the Centre could not take a "unilateral" stand on an issue involving two states.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had not taken a position that the Centre would not intervene. However, this was an issue between two states and co-operation from both sides are essential to find a solution, Ravi told reporters.

Tamil Nadu had not offered its co-operation for talks under Central mediation, he said.

Dam row: 'Centre can not take unilateral stand on issue involving 2 states'

And this is what Kalam said two weeks back,

"The foremost thing is that the two Chief Ministers meet and chalk out an amicable settlement. The meeting should discuss the cost, benefit and safety of the dam", Kalam said.

Tamil Nadu, Kerala CMs should discuss Mullaperiyar issue: APJ Kalam

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Jan 2012 22:09

this mane hogu was started by mumbaikars - bal thakre. everyone caught on with it.

mane is India, and mane is not KL/KA/TN.

யாதும் ஊரே, யாவரும் கேளீர் ['every country is my own and all the people are my kinsmen.']
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasudhaiva_Kutumbakam

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 02 Jan 2012 05:37

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/armed-forces ... 911-3.html

I am not blaming APJ for anything. Maybe its the way reporters report the news. if you look into the above link, its all about water, nothing about dam