Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011

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CRamS
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby CRamS » 30 Dec 2011 06:14

amit wrote:Public humiliation of political leaders and public personalities is a very American concept. Even during their darkest hours Indira and Rajiv Gandhi were never subject to public humiliation or ridicule on TV and other media. Whatever little that happened was in the context of political and electoral expediency. Their experience was nothing compared to folks like Nixon, for example.

Now I'm not trying to pass judgment on whether that is good or bad but that's the way Indian citizens do it. Perhaps folks like CRS don't get it. Indians humiliate political leaders by voting with their feet.


Oh please, spare me this self righteous, this is not how Indians treat their leaders balderdash. I don't think there was any hesitation in publicly humiliating Baba Ramdev (who is a leader of sort to his many followers) by sending out the Delhi cops and brutally busting his movement. And there was no hesitation in the DDM either in mocking Ramdev as a Hindu coward who was allegedly trying to escape in woman's garb.

What good is free speech and democracy if a leader's policy cannot be unabashedly questioned and critiqued.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby harbans » 30 Dec 2011 06:16

was the kind of leader who would shape a different consensus and direction


There is no genuine leadership in India. 'Leadership' in India panders to the Lowest common denominator of public opinion. Even that is determined by those with the most voluble rhetoric. Reason gets lost in the middle. We know what is needed to get rid of poverty say in the next 8 years for example. Yet the cycle to pander the LCD has set in Governance. Political dynasties make merry, the confused keep harping. Genuine leadership as you mentioned must mold and guide the LCD of Public opinion. That is just not happening. They fall short on stature, conviction and reason.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Anujan » 30 Dec 2011 06:20

Chief reporter for the Associated Press of Pakistan, Rafi Nasir, got his 72 because his "supplier" had adulterated his hooch. 1 Other journalist died and 2 others became blind.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/311505/criminal-cover-up-deadly-silence-after-lights-go-out-for-journalists-in-moonshine-tragedy/

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby shiv » 30 Dec 2011 06:54

brihaspati wrote: Pakistan has been good for the congrez. Pakistan can be used in two ways in the domestic politics of India. On the one hand Pakistan can be used to beat the non-Muslim to stay in line - and not oppose the congrez by keeping the fear of a distinct Pakistan that nurtures and preserves Islamism to be unleashed on India in the future. The fear of Indian domestic "muslim" siding with Paki muslims can be invented to preserve a distinct "Muslim" component under rashtryia protection and sharpening of identity. That in turn helps to preserve an iconic fear of Islamism and use that fear to claim that anything done against the wishes of the congrez may jeopardize this "delicate" balance!


Brihaspati that is a perfect assessment of how the Congress variety of "secularism" beats Hindus and uses Pakistan. Congress policies have favored keeping Indian Muslims appear as "Pakistani" as possible - as people who will switch sides if they are not given absurd things. When that provokes anger among others, the Congress raises the "communalism" bogey.

Ultimately it will be Indian Muslims who get them out when they too see how deep the bank accounts of friends and family run. But I digress.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Brad Goodman » 30 Dec 2011 07:38

China kills ‘terrorists’ near Pakistan border

BEIJING: The Chinese policeshot dead seven people whom it described as " kidnappers" close to the country's border with Pakistan late on Wednesday.

The official media said there is speculation that the case of kidnapping was linked to religious extremism in Muslim-dominated areas close to "the Kashmir region controlled by Pakistan and India".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Dec 2011 07:42

Folks, to be fair to Mr. Man Mohan Singh, he is not doing anything vis-a-vis Pakistan that is drastically different from any of his predecessors since 1947.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Airavat » 30 Dec 2011 07:43

Yeah, let the pukes divide and disintegrate on their own:

ANP supports Seraiki province but opposes Hazara province

“We, in the ANP, are opposed to new provinces where there is no feasible population and the area of the proposed (federating) unit such as the Hazara districts is also not feasible.” He explained his point saying that Balochistan is spread over a vast area, is among unsuitable provinces as it gets 9.9 percent of the total federal funds against its five percent share in overall population.”

About Seraiki, he said the southern Punjab is the only feasible proposed federating unit in terms of its population and area. “The Seraiki belt has area proportionate to its 45 million population,” he contended.

ANP says that the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM)’s resolution for the Hazara province is nothing more than a political stunt and a wicked move. Signed by 25 MQM members, its deputy parliamentary party leader Haider Abbas Rizvi, earlier, submitted the resolution in NA Secretariat for making Hazara a separate province and carving out two provinces out of South Punjab. Mansehra, Abbottabad, Kohistan, Haripur, Batagram and Toor districts are proposed to be formed as a province in the name of Hazara as the resolution called for a referendum in southern Punjab about the proposed new federating unit, the Seraiki province.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby abhishek_sharma » 30 Dec 2011 07:54

SSridhar wrote:Folks, to be fair to Mr. Man Mohan Singh, he is not doing anything vis-a-vis Pakistan that is drastically different from any of his predecessors since 1947.


Those back channel talks on J&K?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Virupaksha » 30 Dec 2011 07:56


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby CRamS » 30 Dec 2011 08:28

abhishek_sharma wrote:
Those back channel talks on J&K?


To be fair, there was some back channel dalliance going on during VajpayeeJi too. Recall those Mishra Naik talks. But I am not sure, there was any discussion of "joint sovereignty". Somehow, ever since I heard that moron Sugata Bose eloquently in shudh Oxford Englsh recite this poison at an Asia society event to the nodding heads by Nick Platt and Thomas Pickering (well done my boy), I feel this is the angle Uncle is pushing while allowing India some H&D: "borders cannot be changed but they can be irrelevant" garbage.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Anujan » 30 Dec 2011 08:48

Remember that stomach churning video of 5 "chechens" killed by the brave TFTA fauj? (which turned out to be some random group of pregnant women?). The doctor who was a witness against the fauj was given his 72. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011/12/30/story_30-12-2011_pg1_7

Addendum to earlier story of Journalists meeting their 72 due to hooch. Little birdie tells me that all Journalists have browned their shalwars due to the incident. All of them are known to purify their souls on weekends in the land of the pure.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Dec 2011 09:07

Update on CBM talks between India & Pakistan
India has rejected Pakistan's proposal to move heavy artillery and mortars away from the Line of Control citing frequent ceasefire violations. It asked Islamabad to come clear on its nuclear policy, including command and control over nuclear assets.

This was conveyed to the Pakistani officials by India during the two-day talks on nuclear and conventional confidence-building measures (CBMs) held in Islamabad after a gap of four years, sources said here on Friday.

India conveyed to Pakistan the need to demonstrate restraint and responsibility in the nuclear field and urged it to facilitate talks on the Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty (FMCT).

On the nuclear CBMs, India made it clear to Pakistan that views on nuclear doctrines could be exchanged only when official documents enunciating the policies were available in the public domain.

Indian officials also asked their Pakistani counterparts to allow discussion on the Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty at the Conference on Disarmament. “This would be a CBM,” sources said.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Dec 2011 09:46


From the quoted,
If, directly or indirectly, AQ Khan aided the development of India's nuclear weapons, it parallels how Pakistan's ISI and military fund elements of the Taliban. Both could result in the eventual self-immolation of Pakistan.


Who is this guy Russ Wellen ? Does a guy who regurgitates the half-baked Playboy article and who equates Taliban with India and in the process displays an utter lack of knowledge of Pakistan need to be taken seriously ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby shiv » 30 Dec 2011 10:01

SSridhar wrote:
If, directly or indirectly, AQ Khan aided the development of India's nuclear weapons, it parallels how Pakistan's ISI and military fund elements of the Taliban. Both could result in the eventual self-immolation of Pakistan.


Who is this guy Russ Wellen ? Does a guy who regurgitates the half-baked Playboy article and who equates Taliban with India and in the process displays an utter lack of knowledge of Pakistan need to be taken seriously ?


:rotfl: The man is puzzled that Pakistan, having supported and opposed terrorists is now supporting and opposing India
according to Playboy magazine.

But this business inadvertently shows up western piskology - even it it cannot be declared as "racist" it is certainly biased to the extent that what they would consider as "trash" in terms of intellectual information in the west (Playboy) suddenly takes on an aura of respectability and credibility when it comes to talking about turd world nations and their upstart takleef causing actions.

Now how about scouring Playboy about the latest on the search for the Higgs Boson? I digress - but I will be back, with a back issue of Playboy and a full frontal expose of a serious scientific conundrum.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby rajanb » 30 Dec 2011 10:24

CRamS wrote:
rajanb wrote:
CRS: Why don't you start closer to home? Use the same line of thought for ex-President Short Hairs who attacked the wrong country? And the line of Presidents who thought Papistan was their best friend?

America has given you a well ordered society, to the building of which you never contributed. Give something back to them in gratitude?

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, hain ji? MMS or any Indian leader should undo the decades of double speak of Americ, which conveniently calls us a strategic and the worlds largest democracy! :mrgreen:



Leave me out of the picture and concentrate on the issues I am highlighting. To your point above, I don't know how long you have been on BR, but yes, I have boldly, avowedly, courageously, audaciously have taken on US elites to extent I could and asked them tough questions about TSP and US aid to them, about TSP terror being left out of the gamut of the so called GWOT. And I have done this often times at some personal risk and even making a fool of myself (US elites when cornered use their TFTA power over us SDREs: they will say if you don't stop, I will report you to the authorities. The argument ends there). In US, Indians or shall we say "South Asians" are India's worst enemies. And so I have even made a fool of myself speaking up for India's case in various fora with "South Asian" speakers who are so coy to deviate an inch beyond India TSP equal equal, and audience dominated by "South Asians".


CRS
I don't think it matters but let me be polite enough to say that I have been on here since 03 Feb 2011 and was lurking around for at least 3 months prior to that.

Can't leave you out of the picture because of your sweeping statement which uses the word "traitor" and posting it on the Porki thread. Rather strong.

Glad that you have been asking questions and making the Americs squirm, and I hope you did use the same word "traitor" in referring to one or more of their leaders?

Do tell.

(being OT for the Papistan thread, this was my last question to you on this topic) Apologies Mods.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Kashi » 30 Dec 2011 10:45

India rejects Pakistan's proposal to move heavy artillery from LoC

NEW DELHI: India has rejected Pakistan's proposal to move heavy artillery and mortars away from the Line of Control citing frequent ceasefire violations and asked Islamabad to come clear on its nuclear policy, including command and control over nuclear assets.

This was conveyed to the Pakistani officials by India during the two-day talks on nuclear and conventional confidence building measures that were held in Islamabad after a gap of four years, sources said here today.

During the talks India conveyed to Pakistan on the need to demonstrate in practical measure restraint and responsibility in the nuclear field and urged it facilitate the talks on the Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty.

India expressed its inability to accept the Pakistani proposal of relocating heavy artillery citing the ongoing violations of ceasefire along the LoC, the sources said.

New Delhi cannot look at such proposals till the situation on the LoC improves, they said.

...

On the nuclear CBMs, India made it clear to Pakistan that views on nuclear doctrines could be exchanged only when official documents enunciating the policies are available in the public domain.

Officials pointed out that India had announced its nuclear doctrine of credible minimum deterrence in 2003 which places the command and control of nuclear devices with the civilian leadership.


Rajeshji, it seems someone in GoI shares your sentiments
###

Indian rebuff invites predictable frothing and howls from the Pakis

http://tribune.com.pk/story/313772/indi ... /#comments

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby chetak » 30 Dec 2011 10:51

shiv wrote:{quote="SSridhar"}
If, directly or indirectly, AQ Khan aided the development of India's nuclear weapons, it parallels how Pakistan's ISI and military fund elements of the Taliban. Both could result in the eventual self-immolation of Pakistan.


Who is this guy Russ Wellen ? Does a guy who regurgitates the half-baked Playboy article and who equates Taliban with India and in the process displays an utter lack of knowledge of Pakistan need to be taken seriously ?

:rotfl: The man is puzzled that Pakistan, having supported and opposed terrorists is now supporting and opposing India
according to Playboy magazine.

But this business inadvertently shows up western piskology - even it it cannot be declared as "racist" it is certainly biased to the extent that what they would consider as "trash" in terms of intellectual information in the west (Playboy) suddenly takes on an aura of respectability and credibility when it comes to talking about turd world nations and their upstart takleef causing actions.

Now how about scouring Playboy about the latest on the search for the Higgs Boson? I digress - but I will be back, with a back issue of Playboy and a full frontal expose of a serious scientific conundrum.


With a clear consience we can now download Playboy for academic and research purposes onlee! 8)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby amit » 30 Dec 2011 11:10

CRamS wrote:Oh please, spare me this self righteous, this is not how Indians treat their leaders balderdash.


Wow! The pot calling the kettle black as regards self-righteousness.

In an earlier post you wrote:

I wanted him booted out of power, but first honestly exposed and demand answers to the tough questions I posed. Take him to task, verbally that is, for all his pro-TSP nonsense


Unfortunately what you want, I want or anyone else on this forum wants may not matter too much. I know much to the chagrin of successive American Administrations, India does not function as a banana republic whose govts and PMs can be changed on the directive from the Beltway. Indian politicians are booted out of power when voting Indian citizens want that to happen. So all you can do is hope and pray (I would have added voted but then, I don't think you can vote in an Indian election) that MMS is "booted" out of power in 2014.

I don't think there was any hesitation in publicly humiliating Baba Ramdev (who is a leader of sort to his many followers) by sending out the Delhi cops and brutally busting his movement. And there was no hesitation in the DDM either in mocking Ramdev as a Hindu coward who was allegedly trying to escape in woman's garb.


What the government did with Baba Ramdev was wrong and bad, not doubt about that. It was a show (or even misuse) of raw state power. However, how does that translate to public humiliation? Did Baba Ramdev's following diminish because of what the Govt did? I would guess his image as a champion of the underdog was enhanced due this exercise of state power.

What good is free speech and democracy if a leader's policy cannot be unabashedly questioned and critiqued.


Actually now that I joggle the old memory cells I can recall that there's a good precedent for an Indian form of "public humiliation" or critique of policy. Perhaps you can follow that path by finding a suitable Indian media outlet.

During the height of the Bofors scandal, Rajiv Gandhi, reacting to something Ram Jethmalani said remarked to the effect that he didn't care what barking dogs said.

In reaction, Jethmalani, on a daily basis, posed 10 questions to Rajiv Gandhi through The Statesman newspaper and, if I recall correctly, The Hindu for about a month or so. That really put Rajiv Gandhi on the backfoot and was instrumental along with Chitra Subramaniam's Bofors exposes in undermining his credibility.

So instead of frothing in the mouth and telling Indians how bad they are in keeping this MMS in power instead of giving him some sort of kangaroo court justice or a good ol'fashioned hanging, why don't you pose a daily set of 10 (new) questions charging MMS of incompetency, treachery and the works based on the various acts of commission and omission. If, due to the fact that you're an American citizen, you cannot find a suitable Indian media outlet to run your questions, perhaps you can post them on BRF itself, maybe in a new thread. That can be the basis of a lively discussion on the follies and foibles of our PM. That could even cause a ground swell of popular anger and "public humiliation" if you could link these questions up on a Facebook page. I'll be one of the first to put in a like if yo do so.

Instead of wailing do something about you pet peeve.

Cheers!
Last edited by amit on 30 Dec 2011 11:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 30 Dec 2011 11:12

Pakistan murder testimony doctor Baqir Shah shot dead
A doctor who testified that Pakistani security forces had killed a group of unarmed foreigners has himself been shot dead.

Dr Baqir Shah was gunned down in the city of Quetta.

He had contradicted police reports earlier this year which suggested the five victims had been suicide bombers.

Pakistani police surgeon shot dead after he dared to testify against security forces
A Pakistani police surgeon has been shot dead after receiving death threats over his role in investigating the deaths of five foreigners.

Baqir Shah became suspicious when he conducted autopsies on the group from central Asia, of whom three were women and one was seven months pregnant.

Authorities originally said the five were would-be suicide bombers, who had died when they detonated a grenade at a checkpoint near Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan province.
But Mr Shah had apparently discovered that the unarmed group were killed by a hail of bullets, fired by security forces.

One of the women was said to have been seen on video raising an arm in what looked like a pleading gesture as she was shot.

Mr Shah was severely beaten by men who he claimed were police soon after he testified before a government commission set up to investigate the deaths.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby amit » 30 Dec 2011 11:30

nachiket wrote:You are assuming that people here hate MMS and his government because they haven't waged war on Pakistan and wiped out the terrorists. That is wrong. At least in my case. I hate him and his government for going to the other extreme and trying to make love to pakistan. There have been enough instances of them trying to do this.
- The ridiculous joint statement at SeS.
- Deciding unilaterally to resume dialogue with pakis whilst they find new ways to make a joke out of the Hafiz Saeed trial every day.
- Raising the bogey of Hindu Terrorism in order to direct public anger away from pakistan.
- Adopting a pusillanimous attitude towards Kashmiri separatists.

Surely there is a middle path between making war and what MMS is doing now? While our military strength may be inadequate to decisively punish the pakistanis for repeatedly murdering our people, it is more than enough to defend against any paki military aggression. So why the lovemaking then?

I am not saying MMS is a traitor. He could just be working towards getting a Nobel peace prize. In either case he is bad news for the country.


Nachiket,

No major disagreement with you post. Strange as it may sound to many folks here, I'm also deeply disappointed with the apparent policy of appeasement of Pakistan that MMS has been following since 2004. And to be frank something that has been going on since 2000 (recall the Agra summit and the Lahore bus yatra fro example).

Recently Shiv made a great post (one of many, I must add) which questioned on whether we follow this "appeasement" policy because we are not confident of comprehensively winning a war with Pakistan or putting it in another way controlling an aggressive strike into Pakistan the way we want to.

My point is that if we can reasonably conclude that all the elements needed to wage a "final solution" war with Pakistan or carry out an Attobabad type of incursion without escalation is in place then there is indeed merit in calling MMS a traitor or worse. However, if we are not sure that such capability exists then the question is moot.

Now regarding what CRS calls "love-making" with Pakistan, you gotta understand that unless you're an isolationist country like N Korea you cannot freeze all relations with your biggest neighbour because such a foreign policy move follows the law of diminishing returns, something which I suspect the govt realised after the freeze following 26/11. If you can't put a permanent end to this pest you gotta keep talking to it.

IMO, and I know that there's will be quite an amount of disagreement on this, if we follow a mutual policy of belligerency against Pakistan we only reinforce in the world's eye the == nomenclature that we want to distance ourselves from. I think that the idea is to play for time and let Pakistan sink in its own sh!t while we keep progressing.

However, that being said I personally believe that things like SeS and some of MMS' comments were overboard and were not necessary. So yes, while I think I understand the strategic vision I get a sense the implementation sometimes gets a bit overboard in the bhai-bhai and big brother nonsense. And yes I love to dream of the Arjun rolling down the streets of Slumabad. Who knows perhaps I live to see the day as eventually there has to be a final solution to Pakistan.
Last edited by amit on 30 Dec 2011 11:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby hulaku » 30 Dec 2011 11:32

Jumma Mubarak

I bring good news. :mrgreen:

Pakistan is No.1 Again (with AK phyrr in the background)
With over 20 million internet users and growing fast, Pakistan has managed to secure the number one slot for searching the term ‘sex’ globally for all years.

According to a 2010 Fox News report, Pakistan had outranked all countries in Google searches for ***** terms last year. Narrowing the analytics for the search term to just 2011, Pakistan maintained the number one position, followed by India and Vietnam.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/313169/pakistan-maintains-top-slot-in-google-search-for-sex/

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby surinder » 30 Dec 2011 11:35

Steve Coll's book is terribly engrossing.

Some tidbits from it:

I always wondered why the Russians never struck back at TSP duirng the anti-soviet participation of TSP in A'stan. Apparently, Russians did lot of covert sabotage in TSP proper. More so in Karachi.

During the 80's, ISI's Akhtar went overboard and sent Muj' into USSR itself (Uzbekistan). They blew up some airfields and factories etc. USSR went mad, and it informed the US and TSP that this crosses the line and they threatened the integrity of TSP. Zia was calling ISI chief Akhtar to call back the Muj's. TSP neve attempted that again.

A Soviet aircraft had crashed and a pilot captured. TSP sold that plane to CIA. Like they sold the US heli to PRC this year near Kakul.

One thing that struck me while reading the book was that ISI has really played with the big guys in the big league. It got to work with CIA and GID and got to learn the latest and greatest techniques of espionage and statecraft from these dealings. It seems to have held its own and seems to have deftly handled its own interests while dealing with the massa and KSA and others. ISI is really from the big league.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby surinder » 30 Dec 2011 11:36

Brihaspati,

Great to read your posts after a long time.

Very accurate about Congrez and its use of TSP. The main aim of partition for congrez was to traumatize the troublemakers.

What is MB?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 30 Dec 2011 11:45

‘Major surprises’ expected in talks with militants, ISI tells senators
ISLAMABAD: In an unusual three-hour meeting behind closed doors, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief Shuja Pasha and his deputies briefed a Senate panel on the country’s war against terror policy, which they claimed is going through a “holistic review” to correspond with changes in the United States’ plans in Afghanistan.

Some “major surprises” are expected in Islamabad’s peace talks with the Taliban, the agency said during the briefing at the ISI headquarters in Islamabad on Thursday, according to sources.

Another smoke and mirror show to divert the American pressure and earn some brownie points in an election year with Obama? Only time will tell.
Last edited by pankajs on 30 Dec 2011 11:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Dec 2011 11:46

Kashi wrote:
Indian rebuff invites predictable frothing and howls from the Pakis

http://tribune.com.pk/story/313772/indi ... /#comments


Notice how the Pakis bring up Arundhati Roy as the only reasonable Indian. :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 30 Dec 2011 12:04

Govt to bow down on IMF directives, withdraw subsidies, downsize PSDP
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\12\30\story_30-12-2011_pg5_19

KARACHI: Pakistan has expedited implementing International Monetary Fund (IMF) terms by announcing heavy levies on power, gas and oil products, besides putting cash crops under insurance cover.

The sources in the Federal Ministry of Finance (MoF) said on Thursday the Pakistan would go to IMF in February for the release of last two tranches of $1.74 billion each.

The international donor agency did not pay any instalment of Stand by Arrangements for the last 17 months because of non-implementation of IMF terms, finance analysts said.

Where is the tallest, deepest, sweetest , etc.,etc friend when Pakistan needs them the most, when it is made to accept such humiliating conditions.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Dec 2011 12:10

pankajs wrote:Govt to bow down on IMF directives, withdraw subsidies, downsize PSDP
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\12\30\story_30-12-2011_pg5_19

KARACHI: Pakistan has expedited implementing International Monetary Fund (IMF) terms by announcing heavy levies on power, gas and oil products, besides putting cash crops under insurance cover.

The sources in the Federal Ministry of Finance (MoF) said on Thursday the Pakistan would go to IMF in February for the release of last two tranches of $1.74 billion each.

The international donor agency did not pay any instalment of Stand by Arrangements for the last 17 months because of non-implementation of IMF terms, finance analysts said.

Where is the tallest, deepest, sweetest , etc.,etc friend when Pakistan needs them the most, when it is made to accept such humiliating conditions.


Didn't Groper declare last year that they can do without IMF funding. I think significant IMF shareholders who are part of NATO should directly link the IMF tranch to TSP Khaki back pedalling, destroying their H&D publically.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 30 Dec 2011 12:16

The bargain may be the TSPA-ISI-Taliban "joint venture" smoke and mirror "Major Surprise" mentioned in my previous post.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 30 Dec 2011 12:21

Pakistan gears up work on Iran gas pipeline
ISLAMABAD (Online) - Shrugging off US pressure, Pakistan has geared up work on bilateral agreement with Iran including Pak-Iran gas pipeline.
Sources informed Wednesday that Pakistan has not backed from its trade agreement including gas pipeline project with Iran.

And who will finance the project?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Kashi » 30 Dec 2011 12:31

pankajs wrote:And who will finance the project?


The usual Paki "De daata ke naam, tujhko.."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 30 Dec 2011 12:40

Ya the usual Baki philosophy.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 30 Dec 2011 12:54

Patching up?: ISI chief met US officials in Doha
ISLAMABAD:

Pakistan and the United States are working quietly to bring some normalcy to their troubled relationship following last month’s Nato airstrikes in Mohmand Agency.

As part of some behind the scenes efforts, Director General Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Lt General Ahmed Shuja Pasha visited Doha this week where he was believed to have met senior US military and intelligence officials.

The US military has a strong presence in Qatar as Centcom maintains its regional headquarters in what is known as the Arab world’s financial capital.

Pasha, who returned from his two-day trip on Wednesday, visited Doha just days after the US made public its probe into the November 26 Nato attack that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.

The inquiry was conducted by the US Centcom and it was said that the ISI chief’s visit was linked to that.

In its initial response, Pakistan rejected US findings that said Pakistani soldiers fired first at American and Afghan forces, but conceded that Nato has to share the majority of the blame for the attack.

The army, however, hasn’t given its detailed reply which is likely to clarify which direction the relationship between Pakistan and the US will head towards. However, the visit of the ISI chief and his reported meetings with US officials is an indication that the two sides are willing to work through this ‘bad patch’.

There was no official word, however, from either side regarding the ISI chief’s visit. Despite repeated attempts, the chief military spokesperson was not available for an official reaction.

But Pasha’s visit to Doha was confirmed by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani. A military official also confirmed that the ISI chief toured the Arab state but would not comment on the purpose of his trip. “It could be anyone’s guess,” the official said.

Another official indicated that the trip may be linked to the proposal for setting up a Taliban office in Doha for the reconciliation process in Afghanistan.

However, there are speculations that Qatar is mediating between the civil and military leadership over the Memogate controversy that pitted the two against each other, as Premier Gilani is also expected to visit the Qatari capital in the second week of January.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Dec 2011 13:02

pankajs wrote:Govt to bow down on IMF directives, withdraw subsidies, downsize PSDP - DT
The sources in the Federal Ministry of Finance (MoF) said on Thursday the Pakistan would go to IMF in February for the release of last two tranches of $1.74 billion each.

That's a big U-turn, as usual, after brave speeches for public consumption until a few weeks ago. It would be interesting to watch if IMF accepts these changes alone as good enough to release the last tranche of the pending loan. IMF's demands, apart from increased tariff on gas and electricity , was for GoP to implement GST, more taxes for the rich, and tax on agricultural income.

Look at the attitude of the Pakistanis. They see these hot gasses emitted from time to time that somehow fill their bosom with pride only to quickly see a deflation in their puffed up chests soon thereafter. They are so used to this. Until 15th Dec. 1971, Pakistan was winning handsomely and the very next day, it surrendered massively. It was taken in its stride. This IMF saga is no exception either. And, yet, nobody questions the government as to why it gave those brave speeches in the first place earlier. They are so used to these U-turns. All that the abduls want is an ephemeral feeling of standing up to the kafir. They are like the drug addicts enjoying their fleeting sense of euphoria, ecstacy, power and self-confidence. After the regain sobriety, they would then look for another opportunity to get a high. Another terrorist attack on India, perhaps; or brave words of defiance thrown at the US etc. The cycle would repeat endlessly. That's why PA's usual downhill skiing is not so much of a H&D issue provided that event was preceded by brave words and followed by 'suitable explanation'.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RajeshA » 30 Dec 2011 13:10

Kashi wrote:India rejects Pakistan's proposal to move heavy artillery from LoC

Rajeshji, it seems someone in GoI shares your sentiments

Kashi ji,

thanks for sharing the link.

No way should we budge on this. The LoC artillery is not just our first line of defense, but for India, it can also prove to be our only retaliatory option under further terrorist attacks, where the GoI is not prepared to escalate the tensions through apparent retaliatory measures like air strikes, assassinations, naval blockades or the like, in order to "avoid giving the Pakistanis the pretext of going up the escalation ladder".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Dec 2011 13:33

Pakistan body to decide on NATO supplies

Will there be a U-turn here as well, a la IMF ? History points to such a farce.

[Rehman] Malik said: "We have left the matter to the parliamentary committee, which is led by Senator Raza Rabbani, and the government will implement its recommendations, whatever these will be." The defence committee of the cabinet had decided to stop NATO supplies following the attack on two Pakistani checkposts on the Pakistan-Afghan border, Associated Press of Pakistan quoted the minister as saying.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 30 Dec 2011 13:44

They are already regretting the closing for it deprives them of a lot of official and unofficial taxes.

Tough way to do business
Pakistani routes may not shut for long. In past crises, they have reopened after weeks. Many inside Pakistan, including its mafia and military-business complex, enjoy great benefits from the taxation and theft of NATO convoys - they will be lobbying General Kayani to go easy. But US-Pakistan relations are on a long and inexorable decline, and each side is increasingly tired of indulging the other. As such crises become more frequent and NATO's troop footprint lightens, Pakistan's leverage is likely to fall further - but it will not vanish entirely. Nor is logistics the only area in which Pakistan enjoys bargaining power.

In April, a US Senator lamented that 'I just can't believe that we had to have a northern route because our ally Pakistan was shaking us down for 30 percent of all the products being moved through there. Don't you find that to be extremely offensive?' General Carter Ham, to whom the question was directed, wearily agreed. 'Sir, it's a tough way to do business.'


Of course the opening of the route is desired by the US and it is the cheapest still. The fact that the northern route is expensive gives the baki's the added incentive to press for more.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby sum » 30 Dec 2011 14:14

One thing that struck me while reading the book was that ISI has really played with the big guys in the big league. It got to work with CIA and GID and got to learn the latest and greatest techniques of espionage and statecraft from these dealings. It seems to have held its own and seems to have deftly handled its own interests while dealing with the massa and KSA and others. ISI is really from the big league.

Wonder what does it say about the mettle of our agencies given that we seem to have held up pretty well against this big league rogue agency.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby rajanb » 30 Dec 2011 14:45

*self deleted*
Last edited by rajanb on 30 Dec 2011 14:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby rajanb » 30 Dec 2011 14:46

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/pakistan-us-mistrust-is-increasing-daily/articleshow/11302432.cms

30 Dec, 2011, 12.04PM IST,

Pakistan, US mistrust is increasing: Report


ISLAMABAD: The mistrust between Pakistan and the US is increasing following the Nov 26 NATO attack and this could "lead to a great many dangers in the future", warned a Pakistani daily.

An editorial in the News International Friday said that the disagreement between Pakistan and the US over the events which took place on Nov 26, when NATO choppers attacked and killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, "seems to be becoming more and more serious and may have serious implications for the future".
[/quote]

*Sigh* They don't get to win the WILLS made for each udder contest. 2012 :((


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