Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011

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shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by shiv »

surinder wrote: This rifle was sent to Muj, and as per ISI-CIA agreement Khans had to traing the ISI-PA first, who in turn would traint he Muj's. It was used with deadly effect on Soviet soldiers. The last Soviet soldier killed in A'stan was probably killed by one such rifle as the were withdrawing from the Salang Pass. This rifle had a range of 1-2 miles. Khante agency felt strongly enough that it warned the Indian government to take care of the politicians when visiting Kashmir.
Surinder the author is probably guilty of dramatization at best and bluffing at worst. Every single offensive weapon supplied to the Pakistan army was automatically assumed to be available to the Kashmir terrorists because India had no illusions about the separation between Pakistan army and mujahiddeen. Intel sharing between the USSR and India would have given India a good idea about what the Soviets were up against and I don't think it is necessary to believe a cock and bull claim that the "last soldier was probably killed by this oh so effective rifle and that the Yanks warned the Indians to watch out" The yanks had supplied F-16 and artillery pieces with ranges from 25 miles to 500 miles (for F-16s). Indian soldiers were being killed by sophisticated remote triggered explosive devices and the terrorists were using state of the art jam proof frequency hopping communication equipment. Indian retaliation in those days was often by intense artillery duels and guess what? The Pakis were using firefinder radars. The US was deliberately arming Pakistan knowing and officially acknowledging that for Pakistan to do the US's job, the US had to please the Pakistan army and supply it with weapons against India.

The entire idea that the US supplied Pakistan with a deadly sniper rifle and then warned India sounds ridiculous to me. What would happen after that? if someone got killed would they have said "Hey don't say we didn't warn you. You didn't take precautions." The man needs to sell his book - so he has to add masala I guess.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SSridhar »

Shiv is quite accurate about the offensive weapons by the US to TSP and the improbability of the GotUS 'warning' GoI. Since the 50s, India has been aware of the US perfidy (apart from of course perfidy of the Pakistani leaders which predates Independence). Everybody knew that every offensive weapon supplied by the US to Pakistan was meant for use against India (and Afghanistan). And that was how they were always used. Why should India worry about a high-powered sniper rifle or a Stinger alone? To this day, the US practises the same perfidy.

This is what the then US Ambassador to Pakistan, James Langley, said in a rare moment of speaking the truth c. 1957 about the US arms supply to Pakistan: "The present military program is a hoax, the hoax being that it is related to the Soviet threat"

India deeply resented this arms-supply arrangement and the US spurned India’s justified concerns through subterfuge and diplomatese. I am sure some low-level officer in the MEA would have shown the appropriate finger to whomsoever from the GotUS who warned India about these rifles, even if it were improbably true.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Satya_anveshi »

New Year Wishes for US-Paki-Chini relation to reach new deeper than deepest dodo!

Restrictions on aid — new year US gift to Pakistan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Will Judge Chaudhry's activism find it halal case to proceed?

Z wants ZAB case "Revisited" :D
SLAMABAD: As the Supreme Court is all set to resume on Monday the presidential reference on revisiting the murder trial of former prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Ahmed Raza Kasuri submitted a reply opposing reopening of the case because the president is an “interested party
“The exercise of examining the entire record will open Pandora’s box and lift floodgates of futile litigation, resulting in bringing ‘judicial tsunami’ in the country.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by anupmisra »

Chutzpah, thy name is pa'astan. The land of the Pure is now an advanced space-faring nation. Read on...

Regulation of space activities
Developing countries like Pakistan have also benefited from the commercial utilisation of outer space.
With successful deployment of Paksat-1R, Pakistan has become one of the 10 countries in the world with communication satellites in orbit.
Pakistan has been working on space activities for several decades
National space legislation is necessary because Pakistan is increasingly looking to offer satellite communication services and investment in private commercial ventures.
Pakistan, with advancement in space capabilities, is offering satellite communication services to a wide array of customers.
The writer is an aviation and space lawyer.
Spaced out, for sure.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by anupmisra »

If you want a revolution, well, you know...

JI chief tells nation to be prepared for revolution in country
He claimed that bearded men and Hijab-wearing women would change the fate of the country.
:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SwamyG »

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pgbhat »

anupmisra wrote:If you want a revolution, well, you know...

JI chief tells nation to be prepared for revolution in country
He claimed that bearded men and Hijab-wearing women would change the fate of the country.
:rotfl:
Maulana speaketh the truth.

Remembering Salmaan Taseer ---- Pervez Hoobhoy
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by CRamS »

SwamyG wrote:Kolaveri makes inroad into TSP: http://www.ndtv.com/article/bollywood/k ... tan-161685
India TSP equal equal onlee :-). I won't be surprised if Lydia Polygreen or Jim Yardley with help from some help from local side-kick Vikas Bajaj or whoever has something in the NYT about this Lolaveri craze in "South Asia", and how there is a shared culture and camaradarie but for "extremists on both sides".
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by shiv »

pgbhat wrote: ---- Pervez Hoobhoy
Speaking of Hudoodbhoy, he has written an interesting article but ends it with comments that fit in exactly with an editotrs note below the article:
Editors Note: This article has been pulished from Viewpoint Online Edition No 81 for wider circulation amongst the readers of South Asian Idea. Hoodbhoy holds a gun to Pakistans head to make India do the dirty work of resolving Pakistan something which no one in the world except Pakistan can do. Else this epicentre of terror shall descend into more chaos in 2012.
Some quotes from the article (No link available)
The militarys internal difficulties come at a time when its public esteem has hit near a new low, approaching that which existed in 1971. Today it is the object of scorn and open profanities. No longer do people agree that those criticizing the Army actually play into the hands of the enemy. Watching protesters in Islamabads Aabpara market, which is just a short walk down from the main ISI headquarters, I saw protesters tear down a huge military sponsored banner praising the Army and ISI. The onlookers, conservative shopkeepers included, cheered lustily.

<snip>

Dissatisfaction with their leadership is said to run throughout the Army. Junior officers are confronting their superiors with impertinent questions. Stung by criticism all around, Gen Kayani has been stumping the garrisons to raise morale. He was asked why the invaders were not challenged and destroyed. Also, who sheltered bin Laden if we are actually fighting al-Qaeda, our declared enemy? The Express Tribune quotes an unnamed young military officer who made a stinging comment before the army chief: Sir, I am ashamed of what happened in Abbottabad. Replied Gen. Kayani, So am I. He promptly went on to hold Zardaris government responsible for allowing Pakistan to get such bad press.
In its effort to breed the armies of God, the Pakistan Army has fallen victim to its own successes. Self-inflicted injuries generally get little sympathy. Still, it is difficult to be joyful at the prospect of the Armys division, disintegration, and downfall. Should this happen, Pakistan and its people will have to deal with the much deadlier forces. The unfathomable hell of Talibanization lies beneath.

Why is the Army getting weaker? The problem is not the lack of materiel guns, bombs, men, and money. These have relatively easy fixes. Instead it is the militarys diminished moral power and authority, absence of charismatic leadership, and visibly evident accumulation of property and wealth. More than anything else, the Army has sought to please both the Americans as well as their enemies. Recent revelations have brought this contradiction into stark relief

Officially, the Army condemns drone attacks in Pakistans tribal areas, which became no-go areas shortly after 911 after a massive cross border influx of Mullah Omars Taliban. But ordinary Pakistanis have long suspected the sincerity of these routine condemnations. Drone bases are located at many places inside Pakistan, like Shamsi air base in Baluchistan. UAVs are slow moving targets, easily destroyed by supersonic fighter aircraft, or perhaps by ground-to-air missiles if supplied secretly to the Taliban. Their unhindered operation smelled of collusion and complicity. WikiLeaked documents, recently obtained by Dawn newspaper, confirmed this[1].
Religion deeply divides the Pakistan military. Perhaps it might be more accurate to think of it as two militaries. The first is headed by Gen. Kayani. It seeks to maintain the status quo and the Armys preeminence in making national decisions. The second is Allahs army. This awaits a leader even as it launches attacks on Pakistani military installations, bases, top-level officers, soldiers, public places, mosques, and police stations. Soldiers have been encouraged to turn their guns on to their colleagues, troops have been tricked into ambushes, and high-level officers have been assassinated. Allahs army hopes to launch its final blitzkrieg once the state of Pakistan has been sufficiently weakened by such attacks.

What separates Army-One and ISI-One from Army-Two and ISI-Two? This may not be immediately evident. Both were reared on the Two-Nation Theory, the belief of Mr. Mohammed Ali Jinnah, that Hindus and Muslims could never live together in peace. Both are thoroughly steeped in anti-Indianism since their early days in army cadet colleges at Petaro and Hasan Abdal. They also share a deep rooted contempt for Pakistani civilians. This attitude has resulted in roughly half of Pakistans history being that of direct military rule.

Still, they are not the same. The Oneers are soft Islamists who are satisfied with a fuzzy belief that Islam provides solutions to everything, that occasional prayers and ritual fasting in Ramzan is sufficient, and that Sufis and Shias are bonafide Muslims rather than mushriks or apostates. They are not particularly interested in defending the Sunni states of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, or the GCC. But should a lucrative overseas posting come the way of an individual soldier or officer, well, that may be another matter. While having a dislike of US policies, they are not militantly anti-US.

Army-Two and ISI-Two, on the other hand, are soldier ideologues who have traveled further down the road of Islamism. Large numbers of them regularly travel to Raiwind, the headquarters of the Tablighi Jamaat, a supposedly non-political religious organization which has a global proselytizing mission and whose preachers are allowed open access into the Army. The Twoers are stricter in matters of religious rituals, they insist that officers and their wives be segregated at army functions. They keep an eye out for officers who secretly drink alcohol, and how often they pray. Their political philosophy is that Islam and the state should be inseparable. Inspired by Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi, who preached that 7th century Arab Islam provides a complete blueprint for society and politics, they see capturing state power as a means towards creating the ideal society along the lines of the medieval Medina state. Many Twoers are beardless, hence hard to detect. They
are fundamentally anti-science but computer savvy. For them, modern technology is a tool of battle.


Like the proverbial ostrich, the Oneers fiercely defend the myth of army unity. They dismiss mutineers as isolated individuals. Mumtaz Qadri, the renegade bodyguard who murdered Punjab Governor Salman Taseer out of religious passion, is an inconvenient aberration to be dismissed from consideration. Todays religious terrorism is trivialized as a passing threat notwithstanding the fact that it has claimed more Pakistani lives than lost in all wars with India. Instead, anger is reserved for those who state the obvious truth that Pakistan is in a state of civil war.
Now here is the part that BRFites will really enjoy. India must clean up Pakistan's shit
India, through its confrontational policies with Pakistan, shares some responsibility for the present tragic state of affair and has driven Pakistan into a corner. It is therefore incumbent upon India to help Pakistan overcome its difficulties or, at any rate, to refrain from adding to them. This is in India's self interest imagine the consequences if central authority in Pakistan disappears or is sharply weakened. Splintered into a hundred jihadist lashkars, each with its own agenda and tactics, Pakistans territory would become India's eternal nightmare. When Mumbai-II occurs as it surely would in such circumstances India's options in dealing with nuclear Pakistan would be severely limited. Operation Cold Start is a non-starter, a figment of the imagination of Indian generals that they could avoid nuclear war by limiting the depth and intensity of their initial strikes.

India should derive no satisfaction from Pakistan's predicament. Militant groups see ordinary Muslims as munafiqs (hypocrites) and therefore free to be blown up in bazaars and mosques. In their calculus of hate, hurting Hindu India would buy even more tickets for heaven than hurting Muslim Pakistan. They dream of ripping apart both societies, or starting a war preferably nuclear between Pakistan and India.

To create a future working alliance with Pakistan, and in deference to basic democratic principles, India must therefore be seen as genuinely working towards some kind of resolution of the Kashmir issue. A halfway effort is better than none. Over the past two decades India has been morally isolated from Kashmiri Muslims and continues to incur the very considerable costs of an occupying power in the Valley. Indian soldiers continue to needlessly die and to oppress and kill Kashmiri innocents.

It is time for India to fuzz the LOC, make it highly permeable to non-jihadis, and demilitarize it up to some mutually negotiated depth on both sides. Also, India must entertain Pakistans complaints over the use of the water originating in Kashmirs mountains, which is surely a joint resource. Without peace in Kashmir the forces of cross-border jihad, and its hate-filled holy warriors, will continue to receive unnecessary succor. A helpful symbolic step for Pakistans nervous government would be for India to give ground on the Siachen and Sir Creek disputes.

India also needs to allay Pakistans fears on Baluchistan. Although Pakistans current iniquitous federal structure is the cause of the problem a fact which it is now finally addressing through the passage of the 18th Constitutional Amendment nevertheless it is possible that India is aiding some insurgent groups. Statements have been made in India that Baluchistan provides New Delhi with a handle to exert pressure on Pakistan. This is unacceptable, if true.

It has long been true that a little goodwill and friendship would go a long way in laying the basis for rapprochement between India and Pakistan. But improving relations between the two countries is not an optional extra it has become a matter of survival, particularly for us in Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Suppiah »

It is amazing just how much of loose motion a single statement by Indian army chief about cold start can give to our barbaric terrorist animal neighbours...it seems to be in their thought all the time...both the fake liberals and the real jehadi Ghazi momeen can't get over it..

If you break us up, we will become a loose cauldron of jehadi animals - that seems to be the narrative..isn't that what it is right now anyway? If it becomes loose then central funding and coordination and indoctrination ceases..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Prem »

anupmisra wrote:If you want a revolution, well, you know...
JI chief tells nation to be prepared for revolution in country
He claimed that bearded women and Hijab-wearing nomen would change the fate of the country.
:rotfl:

I have corrected his statement .
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Suppiah »

^^ Haven't they already? :-)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by anupmisra »

Jhujar wrote: I have corrected his statement .
One way, lets face it, its got promise and some comic relief. On the other hand, it could have been bearded paki women and hijab wearing paki mards changing the fate of the country a la Lal Masjid
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Aditya_V »

Now People have been asking why MMS and INC are sell outs. Here is an example why, when India is reeling under power cuts. Many Industries have to generate their own power, Chip manufactures have run away because of the power situation.

Just because the RAPE and TSP Army is facing the heat due to riots due to lack of power in Pakistan, here comes a proposal. If Pakis are facing such a power situation they should shutdown thier miltary facilities and should provide power to their population.


India, Pak to start power, petro trade
Officials from the two countries have decided to trade in electricity through a specially-built high voltage direct current link between Amritsar and Lahore. The plan is to transfer 500MW through the Punjab border with the tariff linked to the market rate. Hope at least the payments are made upfront. They have not paid our dues from 1947 what makes you think they will pay any dues for this, we will end giving them free power while our villagers. i.e real Indians can be blissfully kept in darkness.

The proposal is awaiting a clearance from the defence ministry before an agreement is signed.Anthony Saab please scuttle this stupidity
This is ridiculous, if we indeed export power that to Pakistan which will run defense, Terror and Nuclear facilities with such power when constituencies like Amethi are yet to get electricity then I am convinced current Regime aims to keep Indians in prepetually in poverty at the same time propping up RAPE in Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by ramana »

In Viewpoint, Edition 81:


Lament on the defeat in the West:

http://www.viewpointonline.net/defeat-in-the-west.html
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by kenop »

With respect to US-provided weapons etc for use on their western front, Mushy has on TV conceded (do not have a link at the moment) these being available/deployed elsewhere too.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SSridhar »

Aditya_V wrote:Now People have been asking why MMS and INC are sell outs. Here is an example why, when India is reeling under power cuts. Many Industries have to generate their own power, Chip manufactures have run away because of the power situation.

India, Pak to start power, petro trade
Officials from the two countries have decided to trade in electricity through a specially-built high voltage direct current link between Amritsar and Lahore. The plan is to transfer 500MW through the Punjab border with the tariff linked to the market rate. [/color]

The proposal is awaiting a clearance from the defence ministry before an agreement is signed.Anthony Saab please scuttle this stupidity
Aditya_V, this is a Chanakyan move which I am pretty sure somebody here may be able to explain.

Not being endowed with such analytical skills, I have always felt that India gave a lifeline to Pakistan and its Generals whenever they were in deep trouble hoping somehow that would make them be more reasonable and less hostile. We have never seen benefits from such a generous policy. OTOH, those generosities have been misconstrued as 'Hindu cowardice' and resulted in more attacks on us. Somehow, we continue with the same policy.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Aditya_V »

Yes but 500MW power when we have not electrified all our villages, powercuts in many parts of the country, Many Indian small scale large scale factories are running on generators and Chip manufacturers stating pubillically in spite of local talent they have run away due to "Power situation", isn't this a bit too generous??
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by rajanb »

Aditya_V wrote:Yes but 500MW power when we have not electrified all our villages, powercuts in many parts of the country, Many Indian small scale large scale factories are running on generators and Chip manufacturers stating pubillically in spite of local talent they have run away due to "Power situation", isn't this a bit too generous??
It is not only St. Antony who can block it, but the purest mango apduls will take to the streets and protest (as they have been doing all along) from taking anything from the evil yindoo kaffirs as their purity would be reduced and they may land up with a 0.00072 khusboo
:((

Seriously, by giving them power when we ourselves are starved of it is indeed blasphemy of the defence and good governance kind. :evil:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by chetak »

rajanb wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Yes but 500MW power when we have not electrified all our villages, powercuts in many parts of the country, Many Indian small scale large scale factories are running on generators and Chip manufacturers stating pubillically in spite of local talent they have run away due to "Power situation", isn't this a bit too generous??
It is not only St. Antony who can block it, but the purest mango apduls will take to the streets and protest (as they have been doing all along) from taking anything from the evil yindoo kaffirs as their purity would be reduced and they may land up with a 0.00072 khusboo
:((

Seriously, by giving them power when we ourselves are starved of it is indeed blasphemy of the defence and good governance kind. :evil:

Just yesterday they fired across the border. and we are rewarding them with very scarce power. MMS jai ho.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

No one should be deceived by Hoodbhoy's good-guy persona and mild-mannered liberalism. He has consistently played good cop to TSPA's bad cop. This service is probably why TSPA lets him go on living and flapping his mouth.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 02 Jan 2012 13:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by svenkat »

well,FWIW,I am an admirer of Dr MMS,though frustrated by impotent anger at times of 'aman ki tamaasha'.

I will thrown in the towel,have run out of all chankian explanations.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by member_21708 »

Aditya_V wrote:Now People have been asking why MMS and INC are sell outs. Here is an example why, when India is reeling under power cuts. Many Industries have to generate their own power, Chip manufactures have run away because of the power situation.

Just because the RAPE and TSP Army is facing the heat due to riots due to lack of power in Pakistan, here comes a proposal. If Pakis are facing such a power situation they should shutdown thier miltary facilities and should provide power to their population.


India, Pak to start power, petro trade
Officials from the two countries have decided to trade in electricity through a specially-built high voltage direct current link between Amritsar and Lahore. The plan is to transfer 500MW through the Punjab border with the tariff linked to the market rate. Hope at least the payments are made upfront. They have not paid our dues from 1947 what makes you think they will pay any dues for this, we will end giving them free power while our villagers. i.e real Indians can be blissfully kept in darkness.

The proposal is awaiting a clearance from the defence ministry before an agreement is signed.Anthony Saab please scuttle this stupidity
This is ridiculous, if we indeed export power that to Pakistan which will run defense, Terror and Nuclear facilities with such power when constituencies like Amethi are yet to get electricity then I am convinced current Regime aims to keep Indians in prepetually in poverty at the same time propping up RAPE in Pakistan.
manmohan playing communal politics to appease his muslim votebank to win UP elections
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by rajanb »

svenkat wrote:well,FWIW,I am an admirer of Dr MMS,though frustrated by impotent anger at times of 'aman ki tamaasha'.

I will thrown in the towel,have run out of all chankian explanations.
:(( welcome to the club! me too.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Dilbu »

Balochistan insurgency: Sui landmine blast kills 3 troops
QUETTA: At least three paramilitary troops were killed on Sunday in a landmine explosion in Balochistan, which has been in the throes of a deadly tribal insurgency and ethnic violence.

“A vehicle carrying paramilitary Frontier Corps troops hit a landmine in the restive Sui area of Dera Bugti,” a source told The Express Tribune. In the ensuing explosion three troops were killed and two wounded.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Aditya_V »

KLNMurthy wrote:No one should be deceived by Hoodbhoy's good-guy persona and mild-mannered liberalism. He has consistently played good cop to TSPA's bad cop.
Look at the last 5 paragraph quoted, he is asking India to Surrender to TSP, so basically a typical Paki liberal asking India to surrender to Pakistan as a peaceful solution and they can continue Jihad against them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Sri »

Aditya_V wrote:Now People have been asking why MMS and INC are sell outs. Here is an example why, when India is reeling under power cuts. Many Industries have to generate their own power, Chip manufactures have run away because of the power situation.

India, Pak to start power, petro trade
Officials from the two countries have decided to trade in electricity through a specially-built high voltage direct current link between Amritsar and Lahore. The plan is to transfer 500MW through the Punjab border with the tariff linked to the market rate. [/color]

The proposal is awaiting a clearance from the defence ministry before an agreement is signed.Anthony Saab please scuttle this stupidity

This is a dud. won't go through. It is Chanakiyan alright. Just positive press.

Punjab itself has power shortfalls.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Sri »

Why Pak will fund its army at the cost of its development
No nation can prosper by halving its development budget and handing over this money to its army. But Pakistanis approve of this. Indeed, they are enthusiastic about it (if they think about it at all) given the army’s popularity.
Punjabis were savage with one another. Today, few Muslims remain in Indian Punjab, having been thrown out or killed, and almost no Sikhs and Hindus remain in Pakistani Punjab. So it was religious partitioning, but this is unimportant. The partition of Punjab was also a partition of its castes. This separation is its critical aspect, and it defines the character of Pakistani Punjab.
What had been a stable society in united Punjab became lighter on the side of the castes the Hindus dominated — trade, commerce — and heavier on the side of the peasant castes, which Muslims dominated. It is true that the largest component of all three Punjabi faiths — Muslim, Sikh and Hindu was the peasantry — and it was the dominant component of the British Indian army.

However, the Hindu Punjabis had a very large mercantile population, comprising Khatris, Aroras and the Vaish (Baniyas). They were the creators of wealth, and still are today all over India. Two of these castes (Khatris and Aroras) were present in strong numbers in the Sikhs. Muslims had very few Khatris and no Baniyas. This is why Pakistani Punjab, though it contains over half of Pakistan’s population, does not dominate the country’s economy.
The Sindhi Hindus who left at Partition were replaced by two communities. One was the educated middle class of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, the Mohajirs. The gap in the trading community created by the migration of Hindus was filled by Muslim Gujaratis of the Lohana caste — Memon, Khoja and Vora. Quaid-e-Azam was also a Lohana, one of the most talented and prosperous trading castes of India.

This is why Sindh is more normal than Punjab, despite the Mohajir-Pashtun skirmishes in Karachi. Because it is a stable society in terms of balance between those parts that are feudal, and those parts that are mercantile. This balance is missing in Punjab.
Sri
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Sri »

Sri wrote:Why Pak will fund its army at the cost of its development
No nation can prosper by halving its development budget and handing over this money to its army. But Pakistanis approve of this. Indeed, they are enthusiastic about it (if they think about it at all) given the army’s popularity.
Punjabis were savage with one another. Today, few Muslims remain in Indian Punjab, having been thrown out or killed, and almost no Sikhs and Hindus remain in Pakistani Punjab. So it was religious partitioning, but this is unimportant. The partition of Punjab was also a partition of its castes. This separation is its critical aspect, and it defines the character of Pakistani Punjab.
What had been a stable society in united Punjab became lighter on the side of the castes the Hindus dominated — trade, commerce — and heavier on the side of the peasant castes, which Muslims dominated. It is true that the largest component of all three Punjabi faiths — Muslim, Sikh and Hindu was the peasantry — and it was the dominant component of the British Indian army.

However, the Hindu Punjabis had a very large mercantile population, comprising Khatris, Aroras and the Vaish (Baniyas). They were the creators of wealth, and still are today all over India. Two of these castes (Khatris and Aroras) were present in strong numbers in the Sikhs. Muslims had very few Khatris and no Baniyas. This is why Pakistani Punjab, though it contains over half of Pakistan’s population, does not dominate the country’s economy.
The Sindhi Hindus who left at Partition were replaced by two communities. One was the educated middle class of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, the Mohajirs. The gap in the trading community created by the migration of Hindus was filled by Muslim Gujaratis of the Lohana caste — Memon, Khoja and Vora. Quaid-e-Azam was also a Lohana, one of the most talented and prosperous trading castes of India.

This is why Sindh is more normal than Punjab, despite the Mohajir-Pashtun skirmishes in Karachi. Because it is a stable society in terms of balance between those parts that are feudal, and those parts that are mercantile. This balance is missing in Punjab.
I would say that the Baloch are a nation, Pushtuns are a nation, Gujaratis are a nation, Tamilians are a nation and Punjabis are a nation. But Punjabi Muslims are not a nation, only half a nation.
Rajdeep
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Rajdeep »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 336658.cms
The two were held as captive after the owner of their company, Euro Global Trading, fled without paying the dues of local suppliers. The owner was stated to be a Yemeni or a Pakistani national.
jo lawhore mein .......
pankajs
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pankajs »

Aditya_V wrote:Now People have been asking why MMS and INC are sell outs. Here is an example why, when India is reeling under power cuts. Many Industries have to generate their own power, Chip manufactures have run away because of the power situation.

Just because the RAPE and TSP Army is facing the heat due to riots due to lack of power in Pakistan, here comes a proposal. If Pakis are facing such a power situation they should shutdown thier miltary facilities and should provide power to their population.
Our sudden urge to help Pakistan could be linked to unkil.

Iranian electricity
Water and Power Minister Syed Naveed Qamar told the National Assembly on Friday that the agreement to import 5000 MW of electricity from Iran was under process, during Question Hour.
The project will almost surely invite American objections, but it should be realized that the USA has long pledged to help Pakistan with its crippling power shortage, but has taken no practical steps.
American objections rest the desire to prevent Iran from making any agreements to its benefit; so as to bend Iran's nuclear programme to its will by crippling its economic sustainability.
KLNMurthy
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

Aditya_V wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:No one should be deceived by Hoodbhoy's good-guy persona and mild-mannered liberalism. He has consistently played good cop to TSPA's bad cop.
Look at the last 5 paragraph quoted, he is asking India to Surrender to TSP, so basically a typical Paki liberal asking India to surrender to Pakistan as a peaceful solution and they can continue Jihad against them.
He's been doing this since at least Brasstacks; he will paint a picture of TSPA as dangerous nuke-armed ghairat-obsessed crazies, do an == with "fascist" hindu forces and then earnestly plead with Indian liberals to give TSPA what it wants to save the entire subcontinent from TSPA so that he and they can jointly fight the forces of == fascism.

Hoodbhoy is an old paki commie, a deadly combination of supremacism and sophisticated propaganda skills, as well as solid scholarship and learning.
Aditya_V
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Aditya_V »

pankajs wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Now People have been asking why MMS and INC are sell outs. Here is an example why, when India is reeling under power cuts. Many Industries have to generate their own power, Chip manufactures have run away because of the power situation.

Just because the RAPE and TSP Army is facing the heat due to riots due to lack of power in Pakistan, here comes a proposal. If Pakis are facing such a power situation they should shutdown thier miltary facilities and should provide power to their population.
Our sudden urge to help Pakistan could be linked to unkil.

Iranian electricity
Water and Power Minister Syed Naveed Qamar told the National Assembly on Friday that the agreement to import 5000 MW of electricity from Iran was under process, during Question Hour.
The project will almost surely invite American objections, but it should be realized that the USA has long pledged to help Pakistan with its crippling power shortage, but has taken no practical steps.
American objections rest the desire to prevent Iran from making any agreements to its benefit; so as to bend Iran's nuclear programme to its will by crippling its economic sustainability.
???? This is even more ridiculous, Pakis if they think its worthwhile and have the money will integrate with Iranian power grid.

Does Iran have so much surplus power? Why didn't Pakis set up power plants with direct American funding. Why starve our power hungry economy to help Pukis.

Just don't make sense?

At Sri-> This proposal should have never been brought up, and regarding Positve press we never get it in Pak and with Pak population. The Indus Water treaty has been generous, our ceasefire accords have been generous to Pakis. We have been treating them respectfully inspite of them using fake currencies, most despicable form of Proxy war against us.

Anyways, we now have Chanakyan theory I guess for this.
pankajs
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by pankajs »

Aditya_V wrote:???? This is even more ridiculous, Pakis if they think its worthwhile and have the money will integrate with Iranian power grid.

Does Iran have so much surplus power? Why didn't Pakis set up power plants with direct American funding. Why starve our power hungry economy to help Pukis.

Just don't make sense?
Let's look at the sequence of events.

The Pakistani's start talking about buying 5000 MW of power from Iran and they also start making noise about the oil/Gas pipeline from Iran. US approves new sanctions on Iran. Immediately India offers the baki's both disregarding our internal deficits.

IMHO too much of a coincidence.
Last edited by pankajs on 02 Jan 2012 14:29, edited 1 time in total.
RajeshA
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by RajeshA »

Guys like Hoodbuoy, need to wash their heads with Lifebuoy to think straight. To Paki "Liberals" the answer should be: "First Pakistan should deliver the 20 most wanted in India, and then we can talk."

All the blowing they do to inflate their articles with so much condescending advice, one just needs to repeat that one demand to deflate their whole stand.
Aditya_V
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Aditya_V »

pankajs wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:???? This is even more ridiculous, Pakis if they think its worthwhile and have the money will integrate with Iranian power grid.

Does Iran have so much surplus power? Why didn't Pakis set up power plants with direct American funding. Why starve our power hungry economy to help Pukis.

Just don't make sense?
Let's look at the sequence of events.

The Pakistani's start talking about buying 5000 MW of power from Iran and they also start making noise about the oil/Gas pipeline from Iran. US approves new sanctions on Iran. Immediately India offers the baki's both disregarding our internal deficits.

IMHO too much of a coincidence.
That would be reducing GOI to the Status of a Colonial Government which takes orders from UNCLE like the British Vicroy did during the times of the British Raj.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by Rajdeep »

Obama signs bill to suspend $1.1 bn aid to Pak

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 333232.cms
The $662-billion defence authorization bill for the year 2012, among other things, seeks to suspend 60% of $1.1 billion military aid to Pakistan - under the category Pakistan Counter-insurgency Fund - till secretaries of state and defence report to the Congress that Islamabad is making progress in the war on terror, particularly progress in strategies to counter manufacturing IEDs.
svenkat
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by svenkat »

Sri wrote:
castes,pakjab,sindh,bs,bs...
whats the point of this article.should pakjab import the trading castes,then it will become normal? and Pakjab's kammandus are not controlling the economy?

I say,a million stribes to this kaffir for suggesting that mard-e-momin,the marital pakjabis are not adequate,but have to bring in banias,their conceit,treachery,cunning to improve the pure land.

And further,punjabis are a nation,tamilians are a nation,gujarathis are a nations,pakjabis a sixteenth of a nation and such other nonsense.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Post by SSridhar »

KLNMurthy wrote:He's been doing this since at least Brasstacks; he will paint a picture of TSPA as dangerous nuke-armed ghairat-obsessed crazies, do an == with "fascist" hindu forces and then earnestly plead with Indian liberals to give TSPA what it wants to save the entire subcontinent from TSPA so that he and they can jointly fight the forces of == fascism.

Hoodbhoy is an old paki commie, a deadly combination of supremacism and sophisticated propaganda skills, as well as solid scholarship and learning.
Murthy saheb, your characterization is accurate. I would simply say that one need not be a Paki Communist liberal to behave like that. All so-called Paki liberals behave exactly like this. The inner(most) Pakistaniyat is to destroy India. Nothing less.
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