Indian Interests

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 Jan 2012 20:34

It seems to me there is some problem with the translation (perhaps those who can read the original may clarify). Because the below quote does not really make much sense...

(Ramana has pointed out that "power without the imagination of mercy" means essentially that might and mercy are two sides of the same coin. To me this does not seem to be the what the author means. First of all, it is debatable whether might and mercy are two sides of the same coin or "punishment" and "mercy" are two sides of the coin. But leaving that aside, perhaps Acharya is right when he suggests that the English does not transfer the meaning accurately - if that is what he meant).

So, the question still stands... what does the author mean by this:

"As he shouts for fairness in frustrated rage, we
are required to understand that power without the imagination of mercy
can only lead to humiliation."

I mean, there are plenty of examples where power without mercy did not lead to humiliation (Ghazni), and where power with mercy did (Prithviraj). Is the author referring to a path that is more "virtuous" or something like that? I'm trying to get the author's original intended meaning.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Jan 2012 20:48

JE Menon saar,

I would say, "mercy" here means mercy accorded upon submission or assimilation of the other, as opposed to destruction. Submission or Assimilation of the other gives one more power. As such mercy too can be an engine of power, just as power creates the desirable circumstances which allow one to offer "mercy". Thus power and mercy are two sides of the same coin.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 03 Jan 2012 03:25

These are interpretations by Hindi authors/thinkers. I love Dinakar's interpretation in regard to Karna in Rashmirathi. Karna is an honourable and upright individual caught in circumstance and conflicting loyalties. He is helpless only because he cannot reconcile these (or maybe cannot be merciful?) and chooses the side that eventually looses. I love this from Dinakar:
"कुन्ती ने केवल जन्म दिया,

राधा ने माँ का कर्म किया

पर कहते जिसे असल जीवन,

देने आया वह दुर्योधन

वह नहीं भिन्न माता से है

बढ़ कर सोदर भ्राता से है

"राजा रंक से बना कर के,

यश, मान, मुकुट पहना कर के

बांहों में मुझे उठा कर के,

सामने जगत के ला करके

करतब क्या क्या न किया उसने

मुझको नव-जन्म दिया उसने

"है ऋणी कर्ण का रोम-रोम,

जानते सत्य यह सूर्य-सोम

तन मन धन दुर्योधन का है,

यह जीवन दुर्योधन का है

सुर पुर से भी मुख मोडूँगा,

केशव ! मैं उसे न छोडूंगा"

furhter down:

"रह साथ सदा खेला खाया,

सौभाग्य-सुयश उससे पाया

अब जब विपत्ति आने को है,

घनघोर प्रलय छाने को है

तज उसे भाग यदि जाऊंगा

कायर, कृतघ्न कहलाऊँगा

"कुन्ती का मैं भी एक तनय,

जिसको होगा इसका प्रत्यय

संसार मुझे धिक्कारेगा,

मन में वह यही विचारेगा

फिर गया तुरत जब राज्य मिला,

यह कर्ण बड़ा पापी निकला

There are many other but here be basically states to Krishna when Krishna asks him to come to the PAndava fold: that Kunti merely gave me birth (and then left me staying s 'aparineeta' - unmarried to the world), Radha (charioteer's wife) was my mother; but real life was given by Duryodhan. This refers to the time when Duryodhan crowns Karna Anga-naresh when Drona stops Karna from competing with Arjun on not being of 'noble' birth. So he says he will not desert Duryodhan. His life belongs to Duryodhan. Every pore of his is filled with gratitude to Duryodhan. There is a lot more, and very scathing, against Kunti and others. Great character building and depiction of his conflict.

He further mentions that world will state that when Karna got the empire (he is the oldest of Kunti's sons) Karana changed the side. He cannot have it (this 'paap').

Ramana: is there an online link to the translation of Andha-yug you have posted above? The original hindi version is on kavita-kosha and I'll read it there.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Jan 2012 06:28

Well, mercy-killing is also mercy after all, no? Perhaps the point is to do what is necessary without indulging senses in it - the nishkaam karma yogi way...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jan 2012 08:40

We can take this to other threads. What I wanted to point out is US is in Karna's position now.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jan 2012 09:17

Bji, Now we need to understand how the freedom fighters conceived the idea of India from the limited British India. I find this as fascinating as the founding of Mauryan Empire or that of the Mughal India.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Jan 2012 19:01

RajeshA,

Thank you. RamaY gave a clear explanation of the author's intention in an email.
Ramana is right. It is OT here. And I have nothing further to add.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 04 Jan 2012 01:51

JE Menon: is it possible to share that explanation?

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 04 Jan 2012 02:33

The great global climate con

The great global climate con
Arvind Kumar | Tuesday, December 27, 2011

India must eschew the global climate deal that was recently proposed in Durban as it will infringe on the economic freedom of Indians. The proposal seeks to raise money for a global climate fund by setting up an international license-raj for industries and imposing shipping and carbon taxes. The taxes and fees will result in the transfer of wealth from India and China to the West as the two countries will contribute the most to global economic activity in coming years.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 04 Jan 2012 05:42

Viv,

It was RamaY who sent the mail. I would gladly share it, but I believe it must be either posted by him or I will copy paste the mail if he indicates that he has no problem.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 04 Jan 2012 19:41

It turns out that RamaY has been banned for the usual period, and that is why he is unable to post. Given the ban, I shall not post his comments here either, as that will circumvent and undermine the purpose of the ban. He will do so, if he still wishes, after the duration of the ban.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 04 Jan 2012 23:07

Thanks!! I found the article Ramana quoted from which fills in the context

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Jan 2012 10:51

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... ry-afraid/
India is Afraid, Very Afraid

The financial crisis, working its way westward across Asia, reached India this week. India’s leaders are worried, really worried. In fact, they’re so worried by the dismal performance of their stock index last year that they have made it easier for foreign investors to invest directly in Indian firms. (FT subscription required)
From as far back as Mahatma Gandhi’s boycotts, India has been protectionist. It’s important to note that despite some deregulation and market opening, this hasn’t totally changed. To some degree, India isn’t opening its markets because its protectionist ideology is breaking down; it’s opening them because the system is breaking down.The further opening of India to global financial flows faces a number of challenges. The largest is the culture of corruption that pervades India’s civil service. Indian officials see bribes as a service fee, but this pay-to-play culture will prove discouraging to foreign investors, even if markets are officially opened to them.
But for now it’s good to see India taking a step in the right direction. Protectionism might not have been killing India, but it wasn’t making it stronger either.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Jan 2012 12:58

False reasoning.
Indian system has to be strengthened before it is to be opened.

Indian public is too isolated to understand the global market and dangerous volitility.

Indian consumerrs are not protected. Even Indian business does not understand the business culture

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 05 Jan 2012 21:03

Walter Mead is a glorified desk jockey. his perception of Asian countries and politics is mostly meaningless babble that has nothing more than superficial shine. he might be qualified to comment on American society, but outside of that field, his commentary is the usual patronizing crap that has a distinct tint of Christian prejudices. he wrote an article some time ago about "religious systems" in Asian countries, and as usual it was a bunch of superficial crap about PRC and about Indian religious systems it was even more superficial with a one-liner and quick passing off as "diverse and pluralistic" and then promptly started talking about American exceptionalism wrt religious fervor, and other all and sundry stuff.

his nonsensical opinions on India should be ignored. they amount to nothing more than words coming from an ignorant man who still insists on pontificating...

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Jan 2012 01:01

x-post
http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/GUJ-AH ... 14322.html
‘Trading with China an economic compulsion’

Ahmedabad: Notwithstanding the ordeal Indian diplomat S Balachandran and traders Shyamsunder Agarwal and Deepak Raheja had to go through in China, traders and industry bodies say they believe India can’t do without trading with the Chinese Dragon. Bilateral trade between the two Asian economic giants has grown from just $2.33 billion in 2000-01 to $60 billion in 2010 and is expected to touch $100 billion by 2015. Of the thousands of Indian traders who fly to China every day, more than 100 are from Gujarat along. Most of them are involved in export-import business.“China has become a global destination for business. Not only Indians, business communities from around the world trade there. Similarly, hundreds of Gujarati traders have been visiting China and importing stuff,” said marketing director of A Innovation International Ltd, Jayesh Patel. For the last one decade, the company has been importing machines from China. Patel said that many Amdavadi traders, including him have been cheated by Chinese.“China is a huge country and in certain provinces, we have been looted and cheated many times. But, we are overtly dependent on China as Indian customers seek cheap products which are only available in China,” said Patel. Looking at the global economic scenario, India can ill afford to scrap trading with such a huge economy, believes chairman, CII Gujarat council, Atul Garg. “Now, we can’t afford to discontinue business with China.
But, we will have to be cautious. The traders should not enter the interiors of China or the provinces and areas which are unknown,” said Garg.The president of Gujarat Chamber of Commerce & Industry (GCCI), Mahendra Patel, who is also CMD, Mamata Group, had a factory in China. “Earlier, we had set up a factory in China which was sold later on. We have been trading with China, but have never faced such issues. However, cases of Indian traders being beaten up or assaulted by Chinese have been on the rise recently. Though Indian government will take necessary steps, traders and businessmen should be careful,” he said.The immediate former chairman of CII Gujarat Council, Yatindra Sharma also said that MNCs in China are safe. “We have been dealing with only MNCs who have manufacturing bases in China. Even though, track record of China has become a big question mark these days, trading with them is compulsion,” he said.
Another machine importer, Nischal R Patel, director of Krishna Hi-tech has discontinued trading with China. “After seeing various cases of frauds, we decided not to trade with China. We have observed that there are certain provinces which are not safe,” he said.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 07 Jan 2012 08:32

Manu Joseph the Anti Hindu bigot of NYTrash is at it again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/world ... wanted=all

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 07 Jan 2012 23:53

Am I seeing too much into this, or are a disproportionate number of ethnic Indians( relative to other ethnicities) being arrested for major infractions like sexual assault, fraud and domestic violence, including in one case the death of a 2 year old. Certainly in Canada, I'm getting this impression. Two Indian names popped up in the last 3 days, Vishnu Sharma and Bhaskar Chanda, in separate sex assault crimes. That of course is two too many. But I did not see many other ethnicities mentioned in sexual assault crimes in the last week. You would expect that if 2 Indians are named in such crimes, alleged or otherwise, there would be at least 20 other names belonging to different ethnicities also mentioned. But no, they have not.

The vast majority of ethnic Indians in Canada are of course law abiding and good. But there's been just too many of the alternate types making the news. Out of proportion, seemingly, to the overall numbers, or relative to other ethnic groups.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jan 2012 08:54

Now the darpok India aceeded to China's demand to remove the Arunachal IAS officer from the delegation to China.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Jan 2012 09:46

^^^No its part of the everlastingly hidden Chankian policy to assert India's moral authority in international affairs. No need to get excited. Big bosses know best. Afterall what if India's growth and prosperity would be crashing to the ground if this mere symbolic gesture was not made!

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 08 Jan 2012 15:18

There is discontent about China policy in MEA. And my understanding is military est is even more upset. My guess is that dropping of officer from the list was done at behest of MEA.

We are uncertain about tactical manoeuvre and it shows.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2012 22:05

It could be to keep the PRC guessing in the aftermath of the Kiyanai visit, the Iran issue and whatnot. Its not a sign of weakness. Its worth probing the PRC right now.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2012 22:06

I think we need a thread on "Why Hate India?" to collect the various takleefs folk have that lead to them currying favor from outsiders.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Jan 2012 23:18

ramana wrote:It could be to keep the PRC guessing in the aftermath of the Kiyanai visit, the Iran issue and whatnot. Its not a sign of weakness. Its worth probing the PRC right now.

this is kind of balance of power

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Jan 2012 23:39

ramana garu,

how is removing the Arunachal IAS officer "probing"? it's the same old policy of concessions without reciprocation. and it is especially demoralizing to the people of Arunachal who notice that the officers who represent their state are told to take a hike...

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 09 Jan 2012 03:28

http://www.change.org/petitions/his-exc ... overeignty#

they are trying to get 10000 signatures. send the petition in email chains.

Why This Is Important

This is an urgent petition, requesting the Hon. Prime Minister to take immediate cognisance of the Frequent Trans-Border Violations of India's Sovereignty (which has been Repeatedly Compromised) and take stringent action to Stop the Talibanisation of West Bengal's lawless border with Bangladesh.

We request an immediate enquiry into the drastically worsening Law & Order situation in the international border towns of Bangaon and Taki-Hasnabad, as well as the border villages of Sutia and Bagan Gaon (P.S.Bangaon) - all of which are in North 24 Parganas district.

We request the Hon. Prime Minister to take immediate action to stop the repeated transgressions of India’s national sovereignty, since the Government of India is duty bound by the Indian Constitution to preserve our country’s sovereignty, failing to accomplish which would prove to be quite disgraceful for the Government.

We implore the Hon. Prime Minister to direct the errant Border Security Force (BSF) officials to stop pandering to extremist elements by willfully turning a blind eye towards cross-border terror and take immediate steps to prevent the atrocities being committed by the extremist culprits on those tens of thousands of Indian citizens who refuse to kowtow to the Talibanisation of Paschim Banga (West Bengal).

We urge an end to official abetment and collusion with cross-border fanatic infiltrators who endanger India's National Security, worsen the Law and Order situation, commit wanton Atrocities on Women, indulge in Human Trafficking and openly violate the fundamental Human Rights and Animal Rights laws enshrined in the Indian Constitution, thereby creating an adverse impact on Poverty and Environmental Sustainability in this vulnerable border region.

here's the letter:

Protect India's Sovereignty Against Intrusions from Bangladesh

Dear Hon. Prime Minister of India (His Excellency Dr. Manmohan Singh)

Whilst New Delhi celebrates the New Year in a carefree manner, those tens of thousands of Indian citizens, who live along West Bengal's lawless international border with Bangladesh, are spending each and every day in excruciatingly dangerous environs, reminiscent of the dark days preceding India's partition in 1947.

We request an immediate enquiry into the Frequent Cross-Border Violations of India's Sovereignty (which has been Repeatedly Compromised) and proactive steps to reverse the drastically worsening Law and Order situation in the international border towns of Bangaon (P.S. Bangaon) and Taki (P.S. Hasnabad in Basirhat), as well as the border villages of Sutia and Bagan Gaon (P.S. Bangaon) - all of which are located in North 24 Parganas district.

Here is a detailed assessment of the alarming situation vis-à-vis important issues regarding national security from Mr. Tapan Kumar Ghosh, who is a renowned human rights activist, grassroots community organiser and social reformer in West Bengal.

1) Bangaon:

Bangaon is the most important check-post on the India-Bangladesh border. The regions under Bangaon Police Station and Bangaon Sub Division are Hindu majority. Demographically, on the Indian side of the border, there are more Hindu-dominated villages and fewer Muslim-dominated villages.

But Bangaon is nevertheless the hotbed of illegal Human Trafficking (into India) and clandestine Cow Smuggling (into Bangladesh) for beef slaughter. Touts (dalals) are directly involved in bringing thousands of infiltrators from Bangladesh into India on a daily basis. This reflects the ground reality in not just Bangaon, but also in several locations throughout the India-Bangladesh border.

All these movements described above do NOT include legal passage (with passports and visas). These are entirely illegal movements of infiltrators accomplished by the touts bribing the officials of the Border Security Force (BSF), Border Guards Bangladesh (formerly known as Bangladesh Rifles or BDR), West Bengal Police and local clubs. All it takes is a bribe of 500 rupees per infiltrator to persuade the Indian border officials to let the infiltrator through. No questions are asked. No passports or visas are required for entry into India. Just a 500 rupee currency note, emblazoned with the smiling visage of Mahatma Gandhi, substitutes for the passport and visa. In other words, the price of India's sovereignty is on sale for a paltry 500 rupees.

Considering the demographic pattern in Bangaon and the entire India-Bangladesh border in Bangaon sub-division, it should not be difficult for the BSF to “control” the area in view of National Security. (In sharp contrast, the neighbouring Basirhat sub-division, especially along the international border, is entirely Muslim majority and Muslim dominated, which can understandably prove to be a tougher area for the BSF to “control” and enforce the rule of law.)

But, for the past one year (since 2010-2011), it is a veritable understatement to say that the gates of Bangaon are absolutely wide open to the Bangladeshi infiltrators. Every day, scores of Bangladeshi infiltrators are freely entering India and loitering in the predominantly Hindu majority Bangaon town, and going to their respective destinations inside West Bengal and the rest of India.

It is shocking to see that the Border Security Force (BSF) has become totally defunct and non-existent at Bangaon. We apprehend that this treacherous metamorphosis is either due to extreme corruption at the upper echelons of BSF or due to a clear directive from the Government officials or both.

The end result is invariably that National Security is being seriously compromised. And the side effect is that the position and security of Indian citizens are being increasingly weakened in Bangaon town and all surrounding villages throughout the border region.

2) Taki-Hasnabad:

Another dangerous incident occurred recently at Taki (under Hasnabad P.S) in neighbouring Basirhat sub division. One can only guess the powers-that-be at whose behest this travesty was orchestrated.

This small town Taki-Hasnabad is situated on the international riverine border, where the Ichhamati river flows between India and Bangladesh, separating the two countries. It is a tradition that on the day of Vijaya Dashami, the villagers from both sides, i.e. West Bengal and East Bengal (now Bangladesh), meet together on boats in mid-river on the occasion of joint immersion of Durga Deities. Taking advantage of this opportunity, every year, some Bangladeshi infiltrators sneak into India. In the past, the BSF kept a vigil.

However, during the most recent Durga Puja immersion (October 6, 2011), the BSF was totally absent and/or defunct in Taki. The BSF facilitated the free entry of foreign nationals and allowed one and all to enter India without any type of checking. The Indian citizens of Taki were shocked to see that, since the very morning, thousands of Bangladeshi infiltrators were pouring into India with their luggage, trunks etc. But the BSF and West Bengal police did not take any cognisance and did absolutely NOTHING - which is an unforgivable act of treason given that none of the interlopers carried passports or visas.

While officials conservatively estimate that more than 20,000 illegal Bangladeshi infiltrators openly entered into India on that single day, the Indian residents of Taki contend that 100,000 cross-border miscreants entered Indian territory on that very day, sexually molesting Indian women and girls while rampaging and ransacking Indian shops before proceeding to their final destinations inside West Bengal and the rest of India.

In their October 8, 2011 and October 10, 2011 editions, two prominent Bengali newspapers in India reported the details of this blatantly shocking invasion and "Open Door Policy" of the BSF that has severely compromised the National Security and Integrity of India.

Ananda Bazar Patrika: http://www.anandabazar.com/archive/1111008/8pgn2.html

Bartaman Patrika: http://bartamanpatrika.com/archive/2011 ... /index.htm

3) Sutia and Bagan Gaon (P.S. Bangaon):

More recently, on the night of Dec 31, 2011, about 60 Bangladeshi Cow Smugglers entered Indian territory by crossing the knee-deep waters of Kudulia river into the border villages of Sutia and Bagan Gaon. In a routine operation, these smugglers intruded into India to collect thousands of Indian cattle (kept ready by their Indian counterparts) and herd them into Bangladesh for beef slaughter. These two Indian villages faced the fourth such intrusion within the past 3 months; the first one being on October 10, 2011.

The third intrusion was on the night of Dec 30, 2011 where over 500 Bangladeshis crossed into Indian territory for the same purposes. BSF jawans had chased them back to the “zero line” of the border. When the intruders retaliated with heavy brickbats, some BSF jawans were injured. But the BSF jawans could NOT open fire in self-defence as there is a strict order to the BSF from the Government of India not to open fire, under any circumstances, at any Bangladeshi smugglers, infiltrators or dacoits who rule the roost in the border areas. The Bangladeshi intruders know this "open secret" very well and so, they are taking full advantage of the fact that the BSF is pretending to go about the motions of defending India with both hands tied behind its back.

During the fourth intrusion on the night of Dec 31, 2011, in spite of desperate appeals from Indian villagers, BSF jawans did not even bother to come to the spot because of their previous night's traumatic experience. So, this time, there was no BSF and no West Bengal police to stop the intruders and assist the Indian villagers. While the BSF shirked its primary responsibility, the only resistance came from about 50-odd unarmed Indian villagers and civilian volunteers who kept valiantly chasing the well-armed infiltrators, even though they were outnumbered and outgunned by the Bangladeshis. This night is a shameful New Year’s Eve that will live forever in infamy in Indian history.

Ananda Bazar Patrika, in its January 1, 2012 edition, covered this incident of Cow smuggling on Friday night in page 15.

http://www.anandabazar.com/jibjagat.html

http://www.anandabazar.com/1jibjagat1.html

The photographs and details of the raid on October 10, 2011 are available at:

http://www.hindusamhati.blogspot.com/20 ... rs_14.html

Not only does these recurring incidents point to the willful transgression being condoned (and even encouraged) by the complicit or fearful Indian authorities conveniently turning a blind eye to this massive problem looming on our frontiers, but these also underline how the entire border region of West Bengal has become the bastion of anti-Indian smugglers whose writ runs unchallenged throughout the India-Bangladesh border.

In addition, these routine cross-border smuggling raids result in a great deal of damage to Indian-owned farmlands. For example, when thousands of cows are smuggled, they are driven through Indian agricultural fields thereby damaging both fields and crops irreparably. Such unlawful activities are a clear violation of the Constitutional Rights of the Indian citizenry and exacerbate Animal Cruelty, Agricultural Land Degradation and the Criminal-Official Nexus.

Therefore, the people of West Bengal, nay India, are forced to wonder if the BSF actions, or the lack thereof, are a direct result of possible "concessions" gifted by the elected Government of India to the Bangladeshi Government during the September 2011 visit by Hon. Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh where bilateral agreements on land boundary demarcation and exchange of adversely held enclaves were signed under the cloud of the last-minute scrapping of the Teesta Water Sharing Deal.

The motivation for the authorities’ blatant contravention of the law and their turning a blind eye to such atrocities is debatable. The root cause may be monetary or a new rule of pandering to extremist elements to appease their political masters. Such unscrupulous elements bring notoriety to the uniform they wear and the positions they hold.

We request the Hon. Prime Minister to take immediate action to stop the repeated transgressions of India’s sovereignty, since the Government of India is duty bound by the Indian Constitution to preserve our country’s sovereignty, failing to accomplish which would prove to be quite disgraceful for the Government.

We request the Hon. Prime Minister to take immediate action to stop the growing Talibanisation of West Bengal's lawless border with Bangladesh as it is the dire need of the hour. We urge a thorough investigation of these issues (which have deep repercussions) and take stringent action against such errant public servants, who break the very law they are supposed to enforce.

We implore the Hon. Prime Minister to direct the errant Border Security Force (BSF) officials to stop pandering to extremist elements by willfully turning a blind eye towards cross-border terror and take immediate steps to prevent the atrocities being committed by the extremist culprits on those tens of thousands of Indian citizens who refuse to kowtow to the Talibanisation of Paschim Banga (West Bengal).

We urge an end to official abetment and collusion with cross-border fanatic infiltrators who endanger India's National Security, worsen the Law and Order situation, commit wanton Atrocities on Women, indulge in Human Trafficking and openly violate the fundamental Human Rights and Animal Rights laws enshrined in the Indian Constitution, thereby creating an adverse impact on Poverty and Environmental Sustainability in this vulnerable border region.

Sincerely,

CC:

Hon. Home Minister of India (Mr. P.Chidambaram)
Hon. President of India (Dr. Pratibha Patil)
Hon. Chief Justice, Supreme Court of India (Mr. Sarosh Homi Kapadia)
Hon. Finance Minister and Member of Parliament from West Bengal (Mr. Pranab Mukherjee)
Hon. Chief Minister of West Bengal (Ms. Mamata Banerjee)
Hon. Chief Secretary, Government of West Bengal (Mr. Samar Ghosh, IAS)
Hon. Additional Chief Secretary (Home), Government of West Bengal (Mr. G.D. Gautama, IAS)
Hon. Director General, Border Security Force (Mr. U.K.Bansal)
Hon. Director General of Police, West Bengal (Mr. Naparajit Mukherjee)

[Your name]

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 09 Jan 2012 04:13

^^^They know very well that petitions won't work there. They also know what the steps are that they can take to stop this. That has to be organized at the local level. Whatever they do they suffer anyway. If they resist, both MB and comgrez/left will cry Hindu fascists. If they do not, MB+congrez/left will still blame them for being communal and hence accusing poor inncocent Muslims and BD rabindrasangeet touting muslims.

So they need to quitely and efficiently set examples. The locals know who are the key men in the transborder networks, and which of the rashtryia coercive machinery collaborates [local police/BSF/district admin/political party functionaries]. There are also mid-level biz people who collaborate.

Of course they should keep in mind that they have no friends with power in the locality - not the state admin/parties/"aantels" in city Kol - nor the centre, not even the media. But what do you do when you know that you have no friends? Either you lick the boots of the torturer, or take him out.

Devesh ji, many conspiracy theorists accuse the "zionists" of deliberately allowing the East European jews to be butchered by the Nazis so that creating a state of Israel is facilitated. Forgetting the facts that the deliberate ignorers happen to be such pro-semitic [at least formally] people like Churchill [ the tactical civilian air-bombing issue] but not Zionists themselves [who had little power to intervene directly in the European theatre over the head of Churchill and Stalin - a strongly anti-Semite] - we can still consider the real issue as to whether the brutal slaughter and genocide of the East European Jews really made it impossible for post-war church, Islamists and leftist-anti-Semites to deny the formation of Israel.

I hope you understand, why I take the North 24-Pgs as not a negative sign. The same thing is happening further south along the khulna border, and Sunderbans. Up across Murshidabad, Malda and parts of Dinajpur sector.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 09 Jan 2012 04:39

Brihaspati ji,

in the Indian sense, we need points of convergence between different regions of the country. even going by your 90-year cycles, a long chain of contiguous territory has to converge on a certain "direction". only a varied and "huge" base of resurgence can take out the entrenched Islamist networks which have been collaborating with other powers like Anglo Saxons. in the past few centuries, even when the Marathas began their ascendancy, the major weakness has been the lack of a larger base which converged onto the same direction in terms of attitudes and cultural memes.

this, IMVHO, is the only way that happenings in Bengal will infuriate some mango man in say the South somewhere. vice-versa, this is the only way that the activities of EJ's in South will infuriate some mango man in Bihar and Bengal...

the same is the case for happenings in Kashmir or Punjab or Rajasthan or UP or Guj, or anywhere else.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2012 04:48

Devesh they expect India to call of the visit and lead to a tit for tat zero sum game. Do the opposite of what they expect is a good strategy. Also gives Indian officers a chance to know them up close and personal.

Anecdote. In 1993 massa gave one date to India with a "take it or leave it" tone for PVNR's visit. Undeclared hostility was seen in that move. Desh suggested that date was not feasible and could an alternate in May be chosen. Massa's backroom guys (in the establishment) understood the meaning of it and proposed a new date suitable for both parties.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 09 Jan 2012 20:09

devesh wrote:Brihaspati ji,

in the Indian sense, we need points of convergence between different regions of the country. even going by your 90-year cycles, a long chain of contiguous territory has to converge on a certain "direction". only a varied and "huge" base of resurgence can take out the entrenched Islamist networks which have been collaborating with other powers like Anglo Saxons. in the past few centuries, even when the Marathas began their ascendancy, the major weakness has been the lack of a larger base which converged onto the same direction in terms of attitudes and cultural memes.

this, IMVHO, is the only way that happenings in Bengal will infuriate some mango man in say the South somewhere. vice-versa, this is the only way that the activities of EJ's in South will infuriate some mango man in Bihar and Bengal...

the same is the case for happenings in Kashmir or Punjab or Rajasthan or UP or Guj, or anywhere else.

Devesh ji , Completely agree with you.Infact I was thinking along the same lines.I would call it as developing a Pan Hindu outlook.How we can actually achieve this is not clear to me?Maybe some one can enlighten here.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 09 Jan 2012 20:56

Indian system has to be strengthened before it is to be opened.

Indian public is too isolated to understand the global market and dangerous volitility.

Indian consumerrs are not protected. Even Indian business does not understand the business culture

I fail to understand how that will enhance Indian interests one bit. So neither the customer understands, nor Indian people, nor Businesses. Well these are exactly the same reasons i bet North Korea is the way it is. If you don't open to legitimate business, why should others fo the same for you. If you want to bring companies and industry in isolation, do you really think we will ever stand up to any competition. I don't hear North Korean companies making any impact. Indian consumers are unprotected in the unorganized sector. Ganesha idols made in China, mercury and melanin based products, paints with lead etc imported without accountability and sold off in Kirana shops. The more one isolates, protects the more corruption, favoritism one exposes the country to. More unaccountability. Premiers, Rajdoots. Weston TV we will have to compete with Sony, Audi etc. This kind of thinking has to be rooted from India..

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 09 Jan 2012 21:09

Also there is the question of who does understand?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 09 Jan 2012 23:07

devesh wrote:Brihaspati ji,

in the Indian sense, we need points of convergence between different regions of the country. even going by your 90-year cycles, a long chain of contiguous territory has to converge on a certain "direction". only a varied and "huge" base of resurgence can take out the entrenched Islamist networks which have been collaborating with other powers like Anglo Saxons. in the past few centuries, even when the Marathas began their ascendancy, the major weakness has been the lack of a larger base which converged onto the same direction in terms of attitudes and cultural memes.

this, IMVHO, is the only way that happenings in Bengal will infuriate some mango man in say the South somewhere. vice-versa, this is the only way that the activities of EJ's in South will infuriate some mango man in Bihar and Bengal...

the same is the case for happenings in Kashmir or Punjab or Rajasthan or UP or Guj, or anywhere else.

I am counting on the two passionate hot-heads to heat each other up. Telegus and Bengalis. Marathas (not -is) mixed into the batter would have been good. ikre, ikre...

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 09 Jan 2012 23:16

we never know, there could be factions of Marathas who might be remembering old deeds. the present fountainhead of that group is also living out his last years....a power vacuum could create unique opportunities to reorient the Marathas away from the purely mercantile mentality of the Bombay Presidency roots...

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jan 2012 00:39

21 dec 2012, a Reverie
Birth of New Varan For Shub Karman,Paap Harnam ,PSer Kharnam Bina Darnam .
With 90 year cycle, 2017-2027 is not that far when PSers /Congressi/Ejs etc reach their limit in polarising the Indian society and kick start the Indian version of French revoltion for peaceful transition toward upward mobility of whole nation. From deracinationally induced mental lethargy to Rajasvi Tejasvi energy . Bengali in East, Marthas in WEST , Tamil from South and Punjabi/ Haryanvi from North( Avoidng Suraj Mali mistake) can have good meeting point right in the middle , arriving there by sweeping the Delhi Kanjarkhana head and its tentacles spreading cancer to the body and mind since 47.
Chorro 47 ki batte, Galti hai yeh Purani
2027 me likhe gey, Mill kar Nye Kahani
Hum Indicstani .
Economy ki Saree Zanzeere torr chuke hai
PSers, RNI ki Pole Khol Chukke hai
Top 2 mei ayye jubb Naam Hammarra
Desi Danda lotayye "wohi"Karz Hammara
Aisa Mardan hogga Bharat mei
Dekhe na phir aisa Ascharz dobara.
Nayee peeri hum ko aise phir yaadd karegi
Paap ko Jarr se hamne India se khod Nikala.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Jan 2012 08:30

From the Indian Express

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Jan 2012 08:19

MP clerics issue fatwa against Surya Namaskar

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Jan 2012 09:33

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-16501134
India Andaman Jarawa tribe in 'shocking' tourist video

The video was obtained by a British reporter who wrote an article on "trusting members of the Jarawa tribe being exploited by tourist safaris".Tribal affairs minister KC Deo described the video as "obnoxious" and "disgusting". Tribal rights groups have been calling for operators to stop such tours. The video has caused shock and anger in India."It's one of many videos that are in circulation," Observer reporter Gethin Chamberlain told the BBC. Mr Chamberlain thinks the video was shot about two to three years ago after a police officer was bribed to take tourists into the reserve. His story in The Guadian newspaper says that the reclusive Jarawa tribe is about 400-strong and has only recently begun taking the first tentative steps towards a relationship with the outside world.
Jarawas resemble African bushmen (Photo: Survival International) The allegations have been strongly denied by the director general of police on the islands, Shamsher Bahadur Deol. He said that the man seen on the video is definitely not a policeman."I can say that 100% and I have looked at the video clip very, very closely," Mr Deol said.He said the video must have been shot about 10 years ago because the tribespeople that come near the road today are never naked, as they were earlier. He said it was not possible for the police to stop the Jarawas from coming to the road. Vehicles are only allowed in the area in convoys with a police escort. Mr Deol said that about 1,000 arrests had been made in the past five years of people trying to make contact with the Jarawas.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 12 Jan 2012 20:27

The Union Law Minister of India, during campaigning for U.P. election, equates BJP's promise of building Ram Temple at Ram Janmasthan, Ayodhya, India - which is a right of Hindus, with unconstitutional quota for muslims in OBC category.
link

The minister hit back at BJP saying the party was following double standards because it uses as a poll plank the promise to construct a Ram temple.

A Union Law Minister doing this is quite shocking.

Per the Union Law Minister, he is only repeating the promise, however unconstitutional, present in his party manifesto.

So all one has to do is add an unconstitutional demand in some party's promise, equate it with rights of Hindus and then blame & blackmail Hindus as right wing for unconstitutional reservations. Subverting the constitution and then blaming Hindus as if Hindus are subverting the constitution is barbaric.

How can a Union Law Minister do this?

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 12 Jan 2012 22:50

Jhujar wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-16501134
India Andaman Jarawa tribe in 'shocking' tourist video
The video was obtained by a British reporter who wrote an article on "trusting members of the Jarawa tribe being exploited by tourist safaris".Tribal affairs minister KC Deo described the video as "obnoxious" and "disgusting". ..

Sorry boss, there are a million billion videos on the interwebz of gori nautch kudis doing nanga naach for money. Whats with the feigned horror??!!
Also, atleast we have preserved endangered tribes, whereas most countries would have bulldozed them over to build beach resorts at such a beautiful island.