Solar energy in India

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chaanakya
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 06 Dec 2011 10:48

I forgot to add that India has set up Renewable Energy Purchase Payment Guarantee Fund(RPGF) which would reduce the time needed to get payments thus reducing cost of capital.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 06 Dec 2011 10:58

Under a bundling scheme DISCOM would be asked to purchase one unit of RE for every 4 Unit of FE (incl NE). That means 20% of power purchased has to be from RE sources. Various ERC have already come out with RPS under RPO. i.e. purchase obligation for various Solar /non solar RE to be complied with.

The scenario is slowly changing with various market/regulatory framework being put in place.


Abbrev.
DISCOM=Distribution Company
RE=Renewable Energy
ERC=Electricity Regulatory Commissions
RFS=Renewable Portfolio Standards
RPO=Renewable Purchase Obligations

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 07 Dec 2011 19:35

http://profit.ndtv.com/News/Article/mos ... ths-293627

Moser Baer Clean Energy, the renewable energy vertical of Moser Baer India, today said it is investing $1 billion (Rs 5,100 crore approximately) for setting up solar projects with a cumulative capacity of 300 MW in the country and abroad in the next nine months.

"We are well-funded right now; we raised around $1 billion in the last 12 months. We commissioned 100 MW in solar projects from April-September, 2011, and would add 300 MW more through solar in the next nine months," Moser Baer India Executive Director Ratul Puri told reporters.

These projects would be set up in Gujarat, Orissa, West Bengal and Rajasthan in India, as well as abroad in countries like Germany, Italy, and the UK. "It would be half and half, i.e. 150 MW projects in India and the same abroad," Puri said. The company also has ambitious plans for augmenting its solar power generation capacity to 1 GW, or 1,000 MW, by 2015.


Also India CEO of Solaire explains the cost position. His electricity cost is just Rs6 per unit!

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 695432.ece

In an interview to Business Line today, Mr Gaurav Sood, Managing Director, Solairedirect India, stressed that even at Rs 7.49 a unit, the Solairedirect would make money “though not as much as we would have liked to”.

Explaining how the project would generate positive returns, even at Rs 7.49 a unit, Mr Sood noted that Solairedirect was a fully integrated company and was its own EPC contractor too. Further, “whatever we do, we do with a bankability perspective, which brings down costs,” he said. Accordingly, the company has gone in for the established ‘crystalline silicon' technology that the lenders are comfortable with (as opposed to thin-film technology, which is still evolving.) In India, Solairedirect will buy the modules from Jupiter and Websol, he said, adding that, if necessary, Solairedirect could help them in procurement of raw material (poly silicon).

Mr Sood noted that crystalline silicon modules, even if made in India, were competitive with imported thin film modules.

Asked why the company bid only for 5 MW (bidders could bid for any capacity starting from 5 MW up to 50 MW), Mr Sood said that the mandatory bank guarantee was a major limiting factor.

“Even for 5 MW, we had to provide a bank guarantee of Rs 17 crore,” Mr Sood said, noting that for 50 MW it would have been ten times as much. Solairedirect has operations in several countries and could not allocate such large resources to one country.


Supply at Rs 6
Mr Sood said that Solairedirect would like to sell solar power directly to large consumers of electricity and was in talks with a few potential clients.

“The tariff doesn't have to be flat. We can start with Rs 6 a unit with escalations mirroring global energy price movements,” he said.

Solairedirect is also a provider of ‘engineering, procurement, construction' services and is open to taking minority stakes in the projects that it provides EPC services.

“We will stay invested for the period of the power purchase agreement,” Mr Sood said.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 10 Dec 2011 00:31

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ct/458075/

The Tamil Nadu government is planning to set up a 50-Megawatt (Mw) solar power generation project, as part of its efforts to make the state power surplus, said electricity minister, Natham R Viswanathan. It will generate an additional 416 Mw by January to stop the one-hour power cut in various parts of the state.

The TNEDA would set up the 50- Mw solar power plant through two projects — a 30 Mw project and a 20 Mw project — for which tenders would be issued shortly, said Sudeep Jain, chairman and managing director, TNEDA.

While one project would be based on photovoltaic, the other would be on thermal. The total investment for the project is expected to be around Rs 5,000 crore and would be located in the southern part of the state.

The authority is also planning to conduct a campaign from December 15 in around 1,000 colleges in 10 cities to implement roof top solar power generation. It would also float tenders for construction of 60,000 solar-powered green houses.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 16 Dec 2011 02:57

Rajasthan has just kicked of round #1 of its program. 100MW.

http://www.pv-magazine.com/services/pre ... 100005257/

As per clause no.9 and 11.3 of solar policy, the Rajasthan Renewable Energy Corporation Limited (RREC), as the Nodal Agency and on behalf of Discoms of Rajasthan, will select solar power producer for setting up of five to 10 MW (AC) capacity power plants (total capacity 100 MW).

Selection of these solar power projects shall be through tariff based competitive bidding process. The bidder is free to choose any solar PV power generation technology viz crystalline silicon solar cell modules / thin film modules /concentrated PV modules/ any other technology manufactured in India or imported.

The RfS shall be issued to the bidders on any working day from 15 Dec, 2011 to 25 January, 2012, between 10:00 hours (IST) and 17:00 hours (IST) by RREC. The bids must be delivered to the address as given in Clause 2.0 on or before 15.00 hours (IST) on 30.1.2012. The capacity of each solar PV project shall be five MW±5% AC or 10 MW ±5% AC. Five MW AC capacity means five MW AC output at inverter.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 16 Dec 2011 14:45

A link to an article on solar and wind power resources in the world. the technical calculations went way over my head. The principal points that i took away are two: One, solar is way ahead of wind energy in terms of potential. Two, the notion the whole world will have to be covered in a canopy to tap solar energy is open to challenge.
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/201 ... hts-solar/

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 16 Dec 2011 22:28

Nandakumar,

There is plenty of Solar potential and most know it. Even manufacturing capacity is now on turn key production line basis that has completely commodetised manufacture. SPV is going to get a lot cheaper. Sub 5 cents a KW price is less than 10 years away. Even wind has tremendous capacity. More than enough for the planet. Esp. since turbines fit in much better with existing land use while ground mounted solar requires dedicated land use.

The key question to be addressed is intermittency. Like clockwork the sun sets everyday. Also weather can affect output. IMHO 90% of all research, articles, write up and public dollars should go towards investing in pumped storage. In India this should be between the Western Ghats and the West coast. 3000 feet difference. No other country has this easy advantage.

For instance. I cubic meter of water pumped up 3000 feet has the potential of 2.77 or ~ 3 kw/hr of energy potential. Ignoring system losses which are on the order of 5%-10%.

1 Cubic kilometer pumped up 3000 feet = 1000x1000x1000x3 = 3 Billion kw/hr = 3 Million MW/hr = /24 hours = 125,000 MW/day of capacity. I cubic km is roughly ~ 1MAF or about 40 TMC.

2 such facilities will allow us to increase intermittent renewable to 50% of our capacity. We would then be able to tap into the cheap fully depreciated solar power. Fully depreciated wind turbines in the Moopandal area now generate electricity at about Rs 1.60 per kilowatt. By far the cheapest around, yet TN does not have the grid ability to handle any more internmittent electricity and hence the freeze on new wind turbines.
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For what can happen if we don't act now, take a look at Hawaii. Hawaii has the most agressive world mandate to move to 70% renewable by 2035. Yet when the population moved enmasse to solar they ran into a 15% grid limit for intermittent power. Many parts of the island are now maxed out and the state agressively hunts down people who try to install more Solar panels. Incredibly the people are unable to access the cheapest source of power by far because the grid can not handle it. They can't even get off the grid as there are laws against that too. Hawaii's utility rates are 35 cents per kw due to oil power. Quite a sad tale.

We should not get caught in that trap.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 17 Dec 2011 10:51

Thanks Theo. On a related note, here is a poser. What would be the cost of coal five years down the road and what does that do to the cost of electricity for the consumer? There are no definitive answers to that question. But you can say with almost near certainty what that would be if the power is produced using renewable sources. Nature chooses togive without any reward provided there is no human intermediation as in coal put under theground. Whethersolar or wind all costs are practically front ended. That is ahuge plus in a world of uncertainties. That is why i am more optimistic about the prospects for renewable energy. Any banker would tell you the two uncertainties that can wreck any project are sales volumes and operating margins. You can say this about power. If distribution reforms are in place you can sell any quantity, at least in the Indian context. Since costs are determined upfront margins can only vary on the upside.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby dewanand » 18 Dec 2011 01:19

namaste, I found this information on a site and it seems that there are very big plans for massive solar power in India. There is sun and there is space in India, so we must do it. India can export solar energy and earn billions of dollars. this is so fantastic and I feel high.
dewanand

see this article on clean technica:

200,000 MegaWatt Solar Plans for India
July 29, 2009 By Jake Richardson 4 Comments


India’s ‘National Solar Mission’, plans to have India generating 200,000 MW of solar power by 2050, and 100,000 by 2030 according to an official document.

The plan calls for 20,000 MW by 2020. For the next 11 years there is a three-phase approach: 1-1.5 by 2012, 6-7 GW by 2017 and 20 GW by 2020. Another goal for the 2030 milestone (besides the 100 GW target) is parity with energy production from coal.




Initially the plan indicates a rapid deployment may be achieveable through the addition of solar technology on approxmately 3 million square meters of rooftop space from 2,000 – 3,000 government buildings, for the 2009-2012 phase.

Source: Clean Technica (http://s.tt/12uIJ)

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/07/29/200 ... for-india/

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 19 Dec 2011 07:41

Nandakumar,

Absolutely right. These contracts are being written for 25 years at fixed cost. No inflation adjustment. Rs 7.50 in 2036, can any other source sign such a contract. For an idea of the planning behind these costs look at Solaires analysis of the situation. They expect to increase output a cool 50% 15 years in. This would be essentially free money at that point.

http://news.businessweek.com/article.as ... C45HNS2IQK

An ability to source materials cheaply is behind such record-low bids, Lepercq said. Solairedirect plans to help Kolkata-based Jupiter buy wafers at “extremely competitive” prices, he said. It's also a long-time buyer of equipment from India's Websol Energy System Ltd, he said.

“If you take the best-in-class wafer prices and process in India, you're more or less matching Chinese costs,” he said.

The decision to buy Indian panels bucks a trend among local developers of using imports to cut costs and gain financing from foreign state-backed banks eager to boost global sales. Reliance Power Ltd. in August received an $84 million loan from the U.S. Export-Import Bank to buy First Solar modules. The lender's interest rate then was 3.96 percent.


“People want to maximize their internal rates of return but we try to minimize them,” he said. Indian borrowing costs and inflation will decline and “the right level of financial return to expect is maybe a range of 12 to 15 percent.” “If you can convince your investors and lenders that it's low risk, you can do that,” Lepercq said. The company, unlike most, sets aside a provision to replace panels midway through a project's lifetime rather than assuming they'll last for 20 to 30 years because it expects improved technology to double panel power output in 15 years.

“That means a 5-megawatt plant today will become a 7.5- megawatt plant,” Lepercq said. Extra output may be sold in the market as the cost of solar converges with conventional generation, he said.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 20 Dec 2011 23:30

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 732376.ece

Govt rejects industry plea for import duty on solar modules

Also India 'Net-Metering' is on its way.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 29 Dec 2011 20:58

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/busin ... tions.html

India’s Investment in the Sun



This month, the government held its second auction to determine the price at which its state-owned power trading company — NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam — would buy solar-generated electricity for the national grid. The average winning bid was 8.77 rupees (16.5 cents) per kilowatt hour.

That is about twice the price of coal-generated power, but it was about 27 percent lower than the winning bids at the auction held a year ago. Germany, the world’s biggest solar-power user, pays about 17.94 euro cents (23 American cents) per kilowatt hour.

India still significantly lags behind European countries in the use of solar. Germany, for example, had 17,000 megawatts of solar power capacity at the end of 2010. But India, which gets more than 300 days of sunlight a year, is a more suitable place to generate solar power. And being behind is now benefiting India, as panel prices plummet, enabling it to spend far less to set up solar farms than countries that pioneered the technology. I think this is the key comment. 80%+ of our power equipment is still not installed. We have an opportunity to leap frog the old economies. Not dissimilar to cellphones.


Analysts do not expect India’s solar rollout to be problem free. They say some developers have probably bid too aggressively in the federal auctions and may not be able to build their plants fast or cheap enough to survive. Consequently, or because their bids were speculative, some developers are trying to sell their government power agreements to third parties, analysts say, even though such flipping is against the auction rules.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dhiman » 30 Dec 2011 00:10

Not sure if this has been discussed, but the problem with Solar is that it won't operate during night and storing power in batteries is very inefficient and cumbersome. Wind is even worse.

Although someone once told me that solar electricity can be used to pump river water up the mountain during day and then allowed to fall back during night through a hydroelectric generator for night power. Theoretically this loop allows for (almost) infinite clean energy.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Altair » 30 Dec 2011 16:31

Where can one buy Solar panels in India?
What would it take for a typical home to make it grid independent? say 2 KVA

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby devaraj_d » 01 Jan 2012 15:31

Altair wrote:Where can one buy Solar panels in India?
What would it take for a typical home to make it grid independent? say 2 KVA


I tried to install solar cells at my parents home in India in 2009 but it was very expensive. A company makes solar cells in our city and I talked directly to the representatives. A Rs 28000 cell's peak power output was only 180 watts DC. You will probably get this power only a small portion of the day if you manage to keep the cell facing the sun all the time. By the time you include the efficiency of the inverter and add its cost (~ 3500 for a UPS battery based inverter) it did not make any sense for me to proceed any further.

For grid independency you have to spend further on energy storage as well.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby vera_k » 02 Jan 2012 10:43

Dhiman wrote:Not sure if this has been discussed, but the problem with Solar is that it won't operate during night and storing power in batteries is very inefficient and cumbersome. Wind is even worse.


Night time power will have to come from hydrocarbon, nuclear or hydroelectric sources. The good thing is that demand at nighttime is much lower than during the day. Even if solar operates only during the day and fitfully, it will reduce substitute hydrocarbon based fuel during that time.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 02 Jan 2012 14:12

Yes, Solar PV is very expensive, need at least 1.5 lakhs for a 2 kva system w/ battery. Though it may have dropped a bit the recent declines. The huge problem is net-metering is not allowed in India, meaning you use the grid to balance your output rather than a battery. GOI is now finally working on this problem. I would not recommend residential PV in India right now unless you have money to burn. The pay-back period is unrealistic, often in the 15-20 year range.

I would strongly recommend solar water heaters. If you have an electric Geyser you would be surprised how much it consumes. An investment of Rs20,000 or less (depending on deals), could potentially eliminate 1/3 of your electric bill. This was my fathers experience.
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Devaraj, i.e (Theo_Kaiser) :)

I saw your comment about how renewable is too unreliable and expensive and weak to mix into the grid. I think your comment is from a western perspective where if the voltage dips to 108v from the standard 110v the entire city would black out. The West already has an enormous expensive paid for fleet of coal and nuclear plants. Of course power is dirt cheap from these. In India by contrast we do not have power at all. Large sections of the population exists with no power at all. A month back I was in Vellore where I experienced 2 power cuts during the blistering hot day of 8 hours and 10 hours respectively. If we can get 10 hours of Solar power like clockwork from 8am-6pm everyday, it would be such a massive improvement on the peoples lives.

I have one sentence for you to consider, PV is now $1 per watt and heading lower.

The GOI projects we need 700,000MW of power by 2050. You really think coal & nuclear can carry that load? Coal and gas are fundamentally limited and do bad thinks to the planet that further impoverishes our people. Imagine strip mining the the entire Cauvery delta, to get to the 100 billion tonnes of Lignite lying there. Or strip mining most of Odisha and Jharkhand to get the coal there. These are thing we can not do. Also we are not the USA with 500 years of coal lying under the ground.

There are only 2 technologies that can carry us. Nuclear breeder technology, either Thorium or U-238 and Solar+Wind. Nuclear has long gestation, 15+ years, staggering expense, $10 Billion per 1000 MW capacity and then there is the problem of failures as we have seen recently. Not only that we are far far from mastering breeder technology. The breeding efficiencies simply do not work with our present inefficient human machinery. And then there is the whole problem of Fissile material availability.

That leaves Solar+Wind. Germany right now, 2011, gets 17% electricity from Solar/Wind and 3.5% from Hydro for a total of 20.5%. They have a plan to raise this to 35% by 2020 and 60% by 2035. To this end they are building pumped storage all over Europe from Norway to Switzerland to Austria. In the meantime they run nuclear till they can phase that out as well. We too should be able to get at least 30% from Solar in the same time scale. This would buy us the time we need to completely ween India of coal and gas over the next 50 years. Are there challenges, absolutely. That is why we need to start working now.

Right now it costs roughly 8-9 Crore to install 1 MW of PV solar per recent bids. Of course costs are declining and there are companies with 10 year plans to manufacture at 40 cent a watt of less. So say that price drops to 5 Crore per MW. I actually think it can go even lower. If we set aside 50,000 crore every year w/ a 10% escalator based on GDP growth to invest in solar we would get

year - annual addition MW(approx) : Cumulative MW (approx)

2012 - 5,000 : 5,000
2015 - 7,000 : 22,000
2020 - 10,000 : 65,000
2025 - 16,000 : 135,000
2030 - 26,000 : 250,000
2035 - 45,000 : 480,000
2040 - 70,000 : 720,000
2045 - 110,000 : 1,200,000
2050 - 180,000 : 2,120,000

Of course the numbers towards the end get out of hand but note that investing about $10 Billion annually with an escalator of 10% by 2035 we have approx 500,000 MW of capacity. With a PLF of 20% we get 100,000 MW for 24 hours at 100% PLF. When you consider our overall grid PLF is only 60% so in effect that works out to a normal capacity of 150,000 MW. Say we need 350,000 - 400,000 MW or so to keep our growth growing to 2035. We already have roughly 200,000 of coal nuclear and hydro. From projects already in the works say another 50,000 MW. So if we start investing $10 Billion every year in solar with an escalator of 10% every year we can essentially eliminate all other new electricity generators and get approx. 50% of our power from Solar by 2035. This is not even counting wind. The real beauty of this is that only about 2.5 million acres of waste desolate land will be used in the process. Consider that just for the Sasan project roughly 12,000 acres of good land has been acquired to dig up for coal. Also consider that just the state of TN has 26 Million acres of which 28% is classified as wasteland. And this is permanent renewable power. Never goes away and costs the same in 2035 as it does in 2015 despite inflation. Note that even by 2030 we are only investing the equivalent of about $25 Billion annually. Total investment by 2035 is about $450 Billion. This won't even be a rounding error for our total GDP of $15 Trillion by that point.

IMHO the numbers speak for themselves. We have no option but to go Solar, now that PV is $1 per watt and heading lower. I urge you to run the numbers one more time with the new price inputs.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dhiman » 02 Jan 2012 15:30

vera_k wrote:
Dhiman wrote:Not sure if this has been discussed, but the problem with Solar is that it won't operate during night and storing power in batteries is very inefficient and cumbersome. Wind is even worse.


Night time power will have to come from hydrocarbon, nuclear or hydroelectric sources. The good thing is that demand at nighttime is much lower than during the day. Even if solar operates only during the day and fitfully, it will reduce substitute hydrocarbon based fuel during that time.


As far as I know no one constructs a nuclear or thermal power plant with an intention of operating it only 50% of the time - bad return on investment, wasted capacity, higher fixed costs, idle labor time, etc. Given the choice, I would rather invest in a thermal power plant that would run at 100% capacity rather than at 50% capacity - better return on investment. Although, hydroelectric plants are considered clean power and usually operate for months (if not years) continuously without startup and shutdown issues.

Economics today are clearly stacked against solar and wind, i.e you need to put in double the capacity (day vs night, windy days vs non-windy days, etc) to get the same output as compared to say a thermal power plant electricity. I would rather invest my hard-earned money elsewhere where there are better return on investment rather than wasting it in creating excess capacity. Off course if one has money to waste (like Germany) then you can think about creating excess capacity in the hope of "saving the environment".

Having said that, solar does make sense where the electricity grid is absent, because in these cases you can easily put up a few solar panels on top of the roof to get electricity during the day and combine it with a cheap truck battery to save some power for running the fan, light, or a water pump during night, etc.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby vera_k » 02 Jan 2012 23:00

^^^

Peaking power is made available using thermal plants or hydroelectric stations that run only for a short time. The viability calculations for projects are based on the amount of power generated, not how often or how long a plant operates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load_power_plant

For a typical power system, the rule of thumb is that the base load power is usually 35-40% of the maximum load during the year.


Whilst historically large power grids have had base load power plant to exclusively meet the base load, there is no specific technical requirement for this to be so. The baseload can equally well be met by the appropriate quantity of intermittent power sources and peaking power plant.

Also, India seems to be uniquely constrained for hydrocarbon resources, unable to dig them out of the ground at home, and finding it expensive to source them from abroad.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 02 Jan 2012 23:36

Dhiman wrote:Economics today are clearly stacked against solar and wind, i.e you need to put in double the capacity (day vs night, windy days vs non-windy days, etc) to get the same output as compared to say a thermal power plant electricity. I would rather invest my hard-earned money elsewhere where there are better return on investment rather than wasting it in creating excess capacity. Off course if one has money to waste (like Germany) then you can think about creating excess capacity in the hope of "saving the environment".


So more coal then.

Lets do the math on that. Right now it costs about Rs 6-8 Crore per MW for new coal. Re: UMPP's. This is not factoring in the price of coal.

So say we need 200,000 MW/hr of new capacity by 2035. This works out to an investment of $300 Billion by 2035. When you consider cost of mines, riping up fertile land, new railways, new ports, oil for shipping coal, etc. you can easily add $200 Billion to the base cost. So about $500 Billion.

Right now we need about 5 Million tons per annum per 1000 MW of capacity. Indian coal has lower energy content. This works out to about 1 Billion extra tonnes of coal. A tonne of coal is roughly $50 or so. Much more if imported. To mine and burn that much coal would cost $50 Billion every year to kingdom come. With inflation this number would drastically spiral over time.

If you look at my numbers above, Investing about 1/3 that number to 2035 will produce effectively the same amount of electricity from PV.

Not only that right now in India an acre of mine land produces roughly 10,000 tonnes of clean coal. After all the overburden and rock and sand mixed in is removed. So to mine a Billion tonnes of coal we will be chewing up roughly 100,000 acres of land every single year. Much of it flat fertile land. Easy to mine.

If we covered the same land with PV, it would cost only about $25-$30 Billion and would produce in effect 25,000 MW/hr of 100% PLF solar power.

The math is decisively against coal. What does the smart investor say now.

Dhiman
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dhiman » 02 Jan 2012 23:40

vera_k wrote:^^^

Peaking power is made available using thermal plants or hydroelectric stations that run only for a short time. The viability calculations for projects are based on the amount of power generated, not how often or how long a plant operates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load_power_plant

For a typical power system, the rule of thumb is that the base load power is usually 35-40% of the maximum load during the year.



Inefficient peaking power plants are needed only when base capacity is able to meet base loads. With persistent electricity shortage in India, this is certainly not the case. So if I have money to invest I would invest it in base power plants rather than in peaking power plants.

Whilst historically large power grids have had base load power plant to exclusively meet the base load, there is no specific technical requirement for this to be so. The baseload can equally well be met by the appropriate quantity of intermittent power sources and peaking power plant.

Also, India seems to be uniquely constrained for hydrocarbon resources, unable to dig them out of the ground at home, and finding it expensive to source them from abroad.


So, assuming that one has enough base capacity (which is not the case in India), then using Solar for meeting additional peak demand makes sense, but not the other way around.

I agree that India is constrained in hydrocarbon resources, but IMHO, the answer to "constrained hydrocarbon resources" would be to better utilize hydro-electric potential of the country rather than investing in Solar. A shift to solar may be possible 30 years from now, but given the persistent electricity shortage, any large investment in solar is better spent building base power plants that can operate 24x7.
Last edited by Dhiman on 02 Jan 2012 23:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dhiman » 02 Jan 2012 23:45

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Dhiman wrote:Economics today are clearly stacked against solar and wind, i.e you need to put in double the capacity (day vs night, windy days vs non-windy days, etc) to get the same output as compared to say a thermal power plant electricity. I would rather invest my hard-earned money elsewhere where there are better return on investment rather than wasting it in creating excess capacity. Off course if one has money to waste (like Germany) then you can think about creating excess capacity in the hope of "saving the environment".


So more coal then.


Personally, I prefer Hydro-electric, geo-thermal, nuclear, and gas-fired thermal power plants in that order. All can operate 24x7 with high efficiency.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 03 Jan 2012 00:17

Dhiman wrote:Personally, I prefer Hydro-electric, geo-thermal, nuclear, and gas-fired thermal power plants in that order. All can operate 24x7 with high efficiency.


Hydro - Max projected capacity is only 80,000. Also suffers from intermittent nature when monsoon fails. So no 24x7.
Geo-Thermal - India is not rich in this. Are you looking at hot dry rock technology? Causes earthquakes. And still in research phase.
Nuclear - Maybe. As I said earlier we don't have U-235 and U-235 cycle is not scalable. Breeder may work but we are still researching. It will be 30-40 years before we can even begin and even then it will be staggeringly expensive. PFBR is still only a research reactor.
Gas -fired - Maybe. Expensive and based on finding large new reserves. Are you sure it can scale to 200,000 MW/hr by 2035.

Lets do the math on gas.

Right now gas costs roughly $4-$8 per 1000 cubic foot. A 1000 MW plant operating on 80% PLF needs roughly 300 million cubic foot per day. So scaling to 200,000 MW/hr this would be 300x200 = 60,000 million = 60 Billion cubic feet per day of gas. Annual need = 25-30 tcf! Keep in mind Indias entire gas reserves including undeveloped East coast is 150 tcf. Though there might be another 1000 tcf out there. Still only 30 years. Half way through gas construction you will run out of gas. And this is assuming you have 1000 tcf.

Not only that, gas is seriously expensive. A single 1000 MW plant costs $400-$500 million in gas costs to run. 200 such plants add up to a cost of $100 Billion just in gas cost every year.

Sun is free.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby vera_k » 03 Jan 2012 02:26

Dhiman wrote:So, assuming that one has enough base capacity (which is not the case in India), then using Solar for meeting additional peak demand makes sense, but not the other way around.


Right now, the problem isn't base capacity - there is no load shedding at night. In fact one of the arguments being used against the IUCNA was that nuclear power stations will add to base load capability, which India is not short of. As demand grows, base load will be a problem again, but that is where conservation of fuel will help (any fuel saved during the day can be burnt at night).

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dhiman » 03 Jan 2012 03:23

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Dhiman wrote:Personally, I prefer Hydro-electric, geo-thermal, nuclear, and gas-fired thermal power plants in that order. All can operate 24x7 with high efficiency.


Hydro - Max projected capacity is only 80,000. Also suffers from intermittent nature when monsoon fails. So no 24x7.


I would disagree with this. Hydro is perhaps the most reliable, stable, and long term method for generating electricity. Max hydro potential in India is around 80K megawatt as you said. If you include pumped storage, that would add another 90K megawatts. As compared to this only around 30K megawatts are being generated from hydro. So if I have money, this is where I would invest it rather than setting up expensive Solar electricity plants which are not economically feasible ANYWHERE without large government subsidies.

Geo-Thermal - India is not rich in this. Are you looking at hot dry rock technology? Causes earthquakes. And still in research phase.
Nuclear - Maybe. As I said earlier we don't have U-235 and U-235 cycle is not scalable. Breeder may work but we are still researching. It will be 30-40 years before we can even begin and even then it will be staggeringly expensive. PFBR is still only a research reactor.
Gas -fired - Maybe. Expensive and based on finding large new reserves. Are you sure it can scale to 200,000 MW/hr by 2035.


Agreed, India is not rich in geo-thermal, but still has an assessed potential for 10K megawatt. So after I exhaust hydro-power potential in the country (which we are no where close to doing irrespective of monsoon), this is where I would put money in because it is much more efficient and reliable than Solar.

Not only that, gas is seriously expensive. A single 1000 MW plant costs $400-$500 million in gas costs to run. 200 such plants add up to a cost of $100 Billion just in gas cost every year.

Sun is free.


Hopefully in near future with declining solar power panel costs, but definitely not now. In either case, the issue that you cannot run solar power plants during night is still a problem.

But let's forget about generation altogether.Just look at the existing electricity distribution grid. Extremely inefficient at 30% power loss as compared to global average (not global best) of 15%. If I had money, this is the first place I would invest it in, as that would give me 30 gigawatt of extra power without adding a single generation plant.

Unfortunately, however you crunch the numbers, Solar is way down the list.

Right now, the problem isn't base capacity - there is no load shedding at night.


Maybe not in the "green zone" where you live, but rest assured load shedding is very common in India at all times of the day assuming that you are connected to the electricity grid.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 03 Jan 2012 04:17

I'm been talking to people in TN some more about the intermittent nature of solar power. And my relative at Neyveli brought something up. He say's the base load term is a complete myth. Nothing runs always. Utilities always keep a back-up in case one of the 1000 mw behemoths dies without warning as they do all the time. The base load term is not something they use as praise. Base load plants take a long time to start and long time to stop. Many older nuke and coal plants are of this type. Once they start they must run for their full fuel campaign. Base load plants are less than 30% of a utilities fleet. The real stars are the intermediate (load following) plants. These are plants that can be adjusted from 20% to 100% output over a matter of hours. intermediate plants are 60% or the majority of a utilities fleet. The remainder are peaking type plants.

A utility can run with intermediate + peaking plants efficiently and cheaply. Base load not needed.

During the rains in November and again during the recent cyclone rains Neyveli flooded and most power generation went down. In fact the mines are still pumping out from the rains in November and the power plants have been in operation in very limited capacity for several months now. A large chunk of load shedding from Bangalore to Kerala to Chennai is due to the 'intermittent' nature of power from Neyveli. I thought that was ironic esp. when I hear the arguments about how fossil fuel plants are 24x7.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dhiman,

I don't think the idea is that Solar PV is not intermittent. It is, but for India it is the only one that can give us some sort of scale by 2035. Coal could but I don't think we have the nerve to depopulate entire districts as we mine them to the bone.

The point is we need 200,000 MW additional by 2035.

Hydro. While the assessed potential for Hydro of 80k, the feasible portion is only about 50k or so. rest is uneconomic or unfeasible. We are a lot closer to max than you think. For instance the Brahmputra has a potential of 22,000 MW from where it enters India to where it hits the plains. But only 5,000 can be developed as anything else would require extending lake into China. Mainland India is maxed out WRT Hydro. Even Narmada is now full. Only options are in the Himalayas and there are all sorts of limiting problems there. We are not going to get much from Hydro. Not enough to affect the 200,000 MW we need.

Coal can do it but we have looked at the problems. I think we both agree this is a dead end.

Solar is not quite there yet. Latest submitted tariffs were at Rs 8 per KW when imported Coal is probably at Rs 5 or so per kw. Indications are that by 2014-2015 the two will cross over and Solar will be cheaper than coal and declining. My case is that we should not wait and should try to get at least 20,000 MW in the ground by 2015-2016 so we get a head start and can reduce our dependence on fossil fuel. In the mean time we can start pumped storage plants that will help us when large scale solar is being deployed.

Nothing scales like Solar.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Virupaksha » 03 Jan 2012 05:09

Nothing scales like Solar.

land
1) Right now the best range for solar is 1 MW for every 5 acres of dedicated use (not including housing & other amenities). Even if we can increase it 500% usually takes atleast 50-100 years of research, it is 1 MW every acre. I expect to reach that stage in about 20 years.
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 971279.ece

Nuclear is about 1/2 to 1 acre per MW. Ofcourse actual use might be a very small percentage of it, the extra land is due to its assosciated risks.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/land ... 66335.html

Coal is around 1/2 acre per MW, including housing - both
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/n ... nid=172231

2) Intermittent power sources like coal/gas, the grid guys generally talk to the plants to decrease/increase out put as needed, i.e. we have control. Generally when a plant says 1000 MW, its actual production at any point of time varies between 900-1050 MW and there is an operator at plant who synchronizes according to the grid manager. I know that people control coal, gas & hydro in this fashion. There might be ways of coolant to control the nuclear output, however I dont know the response time of such a stimulus.

Unfortunately, we dont have control over the sun/wind. The solar/wind power is not in that fashion a boon for the grid operators, they are part of volatality brigade over which they will have almost no control.

I am for solar power, however I am realistic about its future in the medium term. With all the promotions & tax breaks for solar being given around, the total solar power we can reasonably expect within the next 5 years is less than 2000 MW. Right now the installed capacity is less than 100 MW
Compare that with around 1000 MW of coal coming online every month.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 03 Jan 2012 06:14

The difference is that Solar prefers waste land. 28% of TN is classified as wasteland. There is about 2 million acres of blasted wasteland between Thoothukudi and Panakudi alone. If just 50% of that empty land is diverted that would be 1 million acres or 200,000 MW installed capacity just in that one little area. Space is not an issue WRT solar. Not only that solar is fully scalable and can conform to any shape of existing habitations as well. No evictions are required as people can continue to live between the solar farms and even graze their goats below the panels. Unlike nuclear or coal you can live 20 feet from a solar panel with no issues. The problem with Solar is all about the upfront cash problem. Banks need to turn them into revenue streams similar to road tolls. Road construction had the same problem but once the banks monetized them developers now pay the government fro the privilege of building a new road!

I agree that Solar is not there yet in terms of intermittency or price where it is only 30%-40% away. But all other sources of power are mirages, at least in India WRT scale. I have demonstrated it with the math. Defeat my math and then I will say we have an alternative. Right now everything is on the back of imported coal plants. Is this the way we want to go? The fact that we are so starved for power shows that the existing mix is simply not working. None of the present options have the scale or quick activation necessary to help us.

Start solar off at 5000 MW per year right now and we will be better off for it in future. All else is maya. Sounds nice but simply non-viable in India.

BTW coal is most definitely NOT 1/2 acre per MW when you include the mines needed. A 1000 MW plant chews through 300-500 acres of land every year to dig out the coal. In perpetuity. Every year.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 03 Jan 2012 07:49

Virupaksha wrote:
I am for solar power, however I am realistic about its future in the medium term. With all the promotions & tax breaks for solar being given around, the total solar power we can reasonably expect within the next 5 years is less than 2000 MW. Right now the installed capacity is less than 100 MW
Compare that with around 1000 MW of coal coming online every month.


20 GW by 2017 is the target and going by response it might get achieved earlier with prices dropping fast. And not much of tax break too. With attendant environmental benefits. But . nobody thinks that Solar would be the mainstay in energy mix, currently its negligible. Perhaps Solar thermal route would be more appropriate once technology matures . It would be coal and hydro. Even nuke would be far less than RE ( more than 35%). less than 10% in total mix by 20-30 years.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dhiman » 03 Jan 2012 11:11

Theo_Fidel wrote:The point is we need 200,000 MW additional by 2035.
...
Coal can do it but we have looked at the problems. I think we both agree this is a dead end.


So currently we have an installed capacity of ~200GW, if one brings the electricity distribution grid to world standard (i.e 10% transmission loss as opposed to current 30% transmission loss) that is essentially equivalent of 220GW of installed capacity.

To that add around 50GW from underutilized Hydro + 5GW from Geothermal. That brings us to roughly 275GW.

At that point, I would be all for Solar + Thorium combination and retiring old coal fired plants :D

Nothing scales like Solar.


I agree that nothing scales like Solar during daytime, but during the night you still need to burn coal, gas, oil, or thorium. So either you double your capacity (300GW of Solar during daytime and say 200GW of coal, gas, oil, and thorium during nighttime - something which only rich countries can afford to do for the sake of environment) or you invest and maximize those sources of energy that can operate or at the very least have the potential to operate 24x7.

Hence my emphasis on fixing the grid and maximizing other clean, but more reliable sources of electricity such as hydroelectricity generation.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 03 Jan 2012 12:20

Dhiman wrote:So currently we have an installed capacity of ~200GW, if one brings the electricity distribution grid to world standard (i.e 10% transmission loss as opposed to current 30% transmission loss) that is essentially equivalent of 220GW of installed capacity.To that add around 50GW from underutilized Hydro + 5GW from Geothermal. That brings us to roughly 275GW.


Per email from my cousin at Neyveli, India's T&D losses are not 30%. Apparently that is an euphemism for 'stolen' power. Apparently TNEB's T&D losses are about 16%-17%. That is high and they are working on dropping it to 12%, which is world standard.

But there is an obvious area of improvement. About half the present coal fleet operates at an abysmal 25% efficiency for the coal that is burnt. A super critical power plant can operate at 44%+ efficiency. We could increase electricity output 50% with the same coal input. Of course this would mean condemning roughly 60,000 MW of coal plants and building them afresh which the government is in the process of doing. All the new coal plants are intermediate type stations by the way. They can fully load follow. During the day if Solar is going full bore they can conserve their coal and at night when the sun sets they can operate as a kind of replacement. Also for instance once the Valur plant in North Chennai comes on line the existing North Chennai power plant will be scrapped and taken out of service. So that coal addition you are seeing may not be completely straight forward.

GOI is already working on as much Hydro, Nuclear and Coal as it possibly can. What the math says is that 70%-80% is going to have to come from coal. If this doesn't pan out we will be terribly short of power.

Talking to Engineers in the US they are not worried about the night time fade out of Solar until it exceed 30%. In the US just spinning reserve is about 15%-20% and they can see what the solar output will be at least 24 hours maybe even 7 days in advance. As long as they can see and forecast availability they have all kinds of options to keep demand fed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chaanakya,

This is the first I'm hearing about 20,000 MW by 2017. I thought the date was 2022. Last I heard it was 5,000 MW by 2017 which is abysmal. As you point out just the open bids are enough to add 5,000 MW every year.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 03 Jan 2012 16:09

Theo_Fidel wrote:

Chaanakya,

This is the first I'm hearing about 20,000 MW by 2017. I thought the date was 2022. Last I heard it was 5,000 MW by 2017 which is abysmal. As you point out just the open bids are enough to add 5,000 MW every year.

Yes you are right, that is the original target date 2013 for 1000Mw and 2017 for 5000 Mw and by 2022 remaining 16000 Mw. The reason for ultra conservative target was obvious. Price movement would have to be reflected in projected cost of setting up spv power plant coupled with lowering tariff. However, the target for fist phase was achieved surprisingly fast and projects are in various stages of completion.That has made things look optimistic, unless something calamitous happens. However grid issues and scheduling issues are yet to be resolved and might cause bottleneck. Hence 2017 is still not the official target.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 03 Jan 2012 23:21

Meanwhile...

The chaos continues as the industry tries to work out some complex financial and project issues under high intensity deadlines. Teething troubles. Sigh!

http://www.rechargenews.com/energy/sola ... 296089.ece

India set to miss solar targets as states get into a tangle

By many standards India’s PV sector is booming. Government figures show the country on track to add more than 400MW of capacity during its financial year ending 31 March, from almost nothing in the past.

But that figure falls well short of the 1.2GW of capacity the country is supposed to add in 2011/12, once the ambitions of the National Solar Mission (NSM) and various state programmes are added together.

The biggest laggard appears to be Gujarat, India’s westernmost state which has transformed into a hotbed of solar development in the past few years.

Gujarat aims to have 3GW of PV capacity in place by the end of 2015 – all of it outside the scope of the NSM – with the first 400MW legally-bound to be commissioned by 31 December 2011.

However, about 30 developers representing hundreds of megawatts of capacity filed for an extension before the end of the year.

The developers, including Tata Power Renewable Energy and GMR Gujarat Solar Power, argued that a variety of factors such as escalating land prices have prevented them from keeping to schedule.

Gujarat initially declined the requests for a six-month extension, though a second legal hearing is scheduled for 7 January.

The state is understood to be resisting their pleas partly because the price of PV has plummeted in India since Gujarat launched its solar plan.

For projects finished by the end of 2011, Gujarat had offered a feed-in tariff of 15 rupees ($0.28) per kWh for the first dozen years of operation, followed by 5 rupees for the following 13 years.

However, the average bid in the most recent tender round of the NSM came in at just 8.77 rupees/kWh, with French developer Solairedirect offering the lowest bid at 7.49 rupees/kWh.

Central to Gujarat’s PV ambition is the Charanka Solar Park being built on 2,000 hectares in the northern Patan district.

The state intends to lump together some 500MW of PV capacity, in the hope of becoming a hub for manufacturers.

Gujarat is not alone in struggling to lift its nascent PV economy to its feet. Karnataka, in southwest India, wrapped up an 80MW tender in late November – only to put a stay on the process in December after small developers complained that it was rigged in favour of major companies.

Despite its many challenges, India’s renewable energy sector is galloping. The country added 3.82GW of renewables capacity in 2011, boosting its total to 22GW – about 11% of its installed electricity-generation capacity.

In 2011 India added 2.82GW of wind, 498MW of biomass, 310MW of small hydro and 180MW of PV.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dhiman » 04 Jan 2012 11:28

Theo ji,

Some very good information in your post.

Theo_Fidel wrote:Per email from my cousin at Neyveli, India's T&D losses are not 30%. Apparently that is an euphemism for 'stolen' power. Apparently TNEB's T&D losses are about 16%-17%. That is high and they are working on dropping it to 12%, which is world standard.


Seems like TNEB would be one of the better grids in the country, because from what I can find from the internet "Technical Transmission & Distribution (T&D)" which does not include theft, billing, and other administrative loss is around 30% for all of India. AT&C (which includes T&D loss as well as theft, billing, and administrative loss) is probably 10% higher. Noida seems to be the best example where AT&C is 8%.

http://www.livemint.com/2010/08/2321413 ... istri.html
http://industrytracker.wordpress.com/20 ... r-problem/
http://www.iea.org/papers/2011/technolo ... _india.pdf
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/35/33/46235043.pdf

From What I can find, China operates its grid that 8% AT&C and South Korea operates its grid at 4% AT&C. South Korean grid at one point was operating at 40% AT&C around 30 years back.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... g-facility

The numbers vary a little bit depending upon which source you refer to, but all pretty much point to around 30% T&D loss for the entire country.

But there is an obvious area of improvement. About half the present coal fleet operates at an abysmal 25% efficiency for the coal that is burnt. A super critical power plant can operate at 44%+ efficiency. We could increase electricity output 50% with the same coal input. Of course this would mean condemning roughly 60,000 MW of coal plants and building them afresh which the government is in the process of doing.


Definitely a good thing to do.

GOI is already working on as much Hydro, Nuclear and Coal as it possibly can. What the math says is that 70%-80% is going to have to come from coal. If this doesn't pan out we will be terribly short of power.


Coal mining industry is in worse shape than the power industry. So its not just a technical matter or adding more capacity, reducing technical grid losses, and addressing power theft, but also an issue of administratively reforming and tackling corruption in both the state electricity boards and coal mining industry. I remain very pessimistic.

Updating my calculations based on information you provided.

1) Current Generation Capacity: 182GW
2) Loss from decommissioning inefficient coal fired plants: 60GW
3) Gain from commissioning new efficient coal fired plants: 120GW
4) Net Capacity (i.e 1-2+3) : 242GW
5) Gain from reducing grid T&D to 7% from current 30%, i.e (242*1.23): 297GW.

So I am no expert, but just bringing up the efficiency closer to world average would add around 100GW of power. If GDP is to sustain what we need is comprehensive domestic reforms. This is what the state of power industry in India shows to me, but I am probably starting to deviate from topic now.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 04 Jan 2012 20:11

Not so fast!

If you think stolen power is just 10%, esp. in North India I can only smile. In any case stolen power is legitimate existing demand. Just not paid for. I doubt there is more that 5%-10% other T&D loss savings. Also rebuilding new coal plants is not going to double their output. You might get 20,000 -25,000 if you rebuilt 2/3's of them. This would involve condemning plants built in the 80' & 90's as well which is simply unlikely. Yes we can economize and go more efficient, etc.

Still I doubt we can make our 200,000 MW (keep in mind private generation & diesel gensets are not counted by GOI) feel like 240,000 or so. In any case none of this matters.

In GOI's estimate needing about 200,000 to 250,000 MW additional by 2035 the T&D loses are assumed to be down at 15% and coal efficiency up at 35%+! Efficiency is also in the estimate at 20% and 10,000 MW of Solar water heaters is also included. All this has already been factored in. And we still need an additional 200,000 MW. We are still going to need about 150,000MW from somewhere other than Hydro, Wind, Nuclear and Gas. Right now we are stuck with coal and imported coal at that. If we go seriously at Solar. It can easily be 100,000 MW of that demand as I demonstrated.

Futzing about thinking we have options will give coal an easy win. Even going seriously at Solar coal is likely to end up being a 50,000-100,000 MW winner. No way to avoid this.

Despite its issues Solar is the only scalable option we have. Other than imported coal.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 05 Jan 2012 03:07

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 364898.cms

Azure Power commissions 5MW project in Rajasthan in record time

Government recently indicated that the target to achieve grid-parity would be reduced from 2022 to 2017 looking at the huge participation and low tariffs quoted by solar energy companies.

http://www.pv-tech.org/news/indian_gove ... ar_mission

Indian government committee attacks “disappointing” National Solar Mission

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dhiman » 05 Jan 2012 11:55

Theo ji,

Lot of fudging in numbers, this should give a better picture:

2020 Forcast:
1. Mcinsey Forcast: 300GW by 2017 (assuming GDP growth of 8% per year)
2. Electric Power Survey of India Forecast: 300GW (peak load) by 2021.
3. KPMG: 1200 TWh (or ~280 GW peak generation) by 2020.

So what I am working against is more or less a peak *demand* capacity of ~300GW in 2020.

Also from published material:
Net efficiency of India's coal fired plant fleet: 29%
Decent average (of even older plants) is supposed to be around 37%
Best efficiency of new Coal fired plants: 44%.

So:

1) Current Generation Capacity: 185GW
2) Bringing up the efficiency of Coal fired plant fleet by 8% (from 29% to 37%): 8GW
3) Gain from commissioning new hydroelectric plants: 50GW
4) Gain from geothermal: 5GW
4) Net Capacity (i.e 1+2+3+4): 246 GW
5) After assuming 7% T&D loss, net power available: 229GW.

Basically efficiency improvements lead to 57GW equivalent additional capacity (23% T&D improvement and 8% Coal improvement) assuming hydro and geothermal resources are maxed out.

So, additional generation capacity required by 2020 (after maxing out hydro and geothermal): around 80GW.

Not too bad, but then the picture gets murky and bad when we consider 2030 and 2050 numbers:

Power demand by 2030: 800GW
Power demand by 2050: 1200GW


Not sure how reliable 2030 and 2050 forecasts are, but basically with or without efficiency improvements, we need all the power we can get and also work at improving consumer efficiency (replacing incandescent bulbs with CFL or better, etc). US, for example, currently has a coal power generation capacity of 350GW.

In any case, I am sure there are better people than me crunching numbers for GoI, so I will put my case to sleep here :)

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 05 Jan 2012 19:58

Dhiman,

No need for the Ji.

That is a good summary of our predicament. 2035 is always my worry marker, as our demographic dividend starts to decline at that point. We either get rich by then or get old before we get rich.

BTW that 700,000-800,000 W number includes bio-fuel needs, industrial needs, etc. IIRC. Just electricity, 450,000 MW or so by 2035 would be bare minimum. Shortages but the lights stay on. That is the more realistic number IMHO.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-0 ... jects.html

Solar Developers in Gujarat Get Extension to Complete Projects

1-month. Jan 28 deadline.

Astral Power Pvt., which is building a 25-megawatt plant using First Solar Inc. (FSLR)’s thin-film panels, said it was awarded land only on Oct. 2 after the location was changed three times by authorities. That delayed shipment of panels and equipment until late December because it couldn’t obtain a letter of credit from lenders until it secured land, according to Astral’s letter to SEAG. Similar difficulties were echoed in letters by Inspira Infrastructure Ltd. for its 15-megawatt plant and Surana Group for its 5-megawatt facility.

MBH Power Pvt. doesn’t expect to complete its 1-megawatt plant until Feb. 28 because of land acquisition delays, heavy rains that blocked access to the site and difficulties with distribution infrastructure, it said in a letter.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 05 Jan 2012 21:15

Really good news, first Azure, now Adani.

From today's Economic Times:

Adani Group commissions largest solar power project
Press Trust of India / New Delhi January 5, 2012, 12:55 IST

Adani Group today said it had commissioned the country's largest 40 MW solar power project at Kutch district in Gujarat.

Adani Group, has commissioned a 40 MW solar power plant in Kutch district, Gujarat. "This plant also marks Adani's first big foray in the renewable energy sector," a company statement said.

Going forward, the group plans to expand the capacity of this plant to 100 MW.

"We are pleased to dedicate country's largest solar plant ...," Adani Group Chairman Gautam Adani said.

The Solar Power Plant is using Solar PV Technology and has over 4,00,000 Solar PV modules mounted on 21,600 structures, which are erected on 130,000 foundations.

The power generated from this solar plant will be evacuated through a 66 KV line linked to a substation in Netra, located 20 km away from the project site. The project was awarded under Gujarat Solar Power policy of 2009, it said.

Adani Power, a company of Adani Group, is currently operating 3,300 MW at Mundra with four units of 330 MW and 3 units of 660 MW, and is in the process of commissioning two more units of 660 MW by March 2012 to achieve the final plant capacity of 4,620 MW.

The company also plans to commission 1,320 MW at Tiroda enhancing operational capacity of Adani Power to 6,000 MW by March 12.

Adani Power plans to become a 10,000 MW company by March 2013. This capacity will be achieved with Mundra (4,620MW), Tiroda (3,300MW) and Kawai (1,320MW).

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby SBajwa » 06 Jan 2012 00:57

Forget about solar energy but even coke/coal plants are not getting complete

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20120105/punjab.htm#5


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