Tibetans in India: Status and future

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shiv
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Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

India served as the main safe haven for Tibetans against Chinese brutality. Here is some background information

From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_diaspora
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The Tibetan diaspora is a term used to refer to the communities of Tibetan people living outside Tibet. Tibetan emigration happened in two waves: one in 1959 following the 14th Dalai Lama's self-exile in India, and the other in the 1980s when Tibet was opened to trade and tourism. The third wave continues from 1996 to today. Not all emigration from Tibet is permanent; today some parents in Tibet send their children to communities in the diaspora to receive a traditional Tibetan education. In the 2009 census, Tibetans in exile registered are about 128,000, with the most numerous part of the community living in India, Nepal, and Bhutan.[1] However, in 2005 and 2009 an estimation at up to 150,000 was given.

Origins and numbers

The Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) provides a Green Book - a kind of Tibetan identity certificate - to Tibetan refugees. Based on a CTA survey from 2009, 127,935 Tibetans were registered in the diaspora: in India 94,203; in Nepal 13,514; in Bhutan 1,298; and in rest of the world 18,920.[1] However, their number is estimated at up to 150,000, as mentioned by both Edward J. Mills et al. in 2005 and by the 14th Dalai Lama in 2009.[2][3]

The larger of the other communities are in the USA, Canada, the United Kingdom, Switzerland, Norway, France, Taiwan and Australia.[4][not in citation given]
[edit] First wave

During the 1959 Tibetan uprising, the 14th Dalai Lama and some of his government fled to India. From 1959 to 1960, about 80,000 Tibetans followed the Dalai Lama to India through the Himalayas.[5] Continued flights, estimated in the numbers of 1,000 to 2,500 a year, increased these numbers to 100,000.[6] The movement of refugees during this time is sometimes referred to as an "exodus",[7][8] as in a United Nations General Assembly resolution in 1961 that asserted that the presence of Tibetan refugees in neighboring countries was "evidence" of rights abuses in Tibet.[9]
[edit] Second wave

After the opening of Tibet in the 1980s to trade and tourism, a second Tibetan wave of exile took place due to increasing political repression. From 1986 to 1996, 25,000 Tibetans joined and increased by 18% their exiled community in India. This movement of refugees during this second wave is sometimes referred to as a "second exodus".[10]

According to a US cable put out by WikiLeaks, from 1980 to November 2009, 87,096 Tibetans arrived in India and registered at the Dharamsala reception center, whereas 46,620 returned to Tibet after a pilgrimage in India. Most of those staying are children to attend Tibetan Children's Villages school.[11]
[edit] Present emigration

A 2008 documentary directed by Richard Martini claimed that 3,000–4,500 Tibetans arrive at Dharamsala every year.[12] Most new immigrants are children who are sent to Tibetan cultural schools, sometimes with the tacit approval of the Chinese government. Many political activists, including monks, have also crossed over through Nepal to India. Significant cultural gaps exist between recent Tibetan emigrants (gsar 'byor pa; "newcomer") and Indian-born Tibetans. The more established Tibetans in diaspora reject recent immigrant Tibetans who watch watch Chinese, sing Chinese music, and can speak Mandarin, who are than alienated from the exile community. Newcomers express frustration that the government-in-exile only wants to hear only "bad things" about Chinese rule in Tibet, and a lack of economic opportunity in Dharamsala.[13]
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

Tibetan refugees in India
From Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_i ... n_refugees

Tibetan refugees

Following in the footsteps of the 14th Dalai Lama more than 150,000 Tibetan refugees have fled to India during the past 50 years. He left with his initial entourage in 1959, following an abortive uprising of disputed motivations. He was followed by about 80,000 Tibetan refugees. Jawaharlal Nehru, the then Indian Prime Minister, agreed to provide all assistance to the Tibetan refugees to settle in India until their eventual return). 120,000 refugees remain in India today. The Dalai Lama maintains a government in exile in Himachal Pradesh, which coordinates political activities for Tibetans in India.

In 1960, the Government of Mysore (as Karnataka state was called at that time) allotted nearly 3,000 acres (12 km2) of land at Bylakuppe in Mysore district in Karnataka and the first ever Tibetan exile settlement, Lugsung Samdupling came into existence in 1961. A few years later another settlement, Tibetan Dickey Larsoe, also called TDL, was established. This was followed by the establishment of three more settlements in Karnataka state making it the state with the largest Tibetan refugee population. Rabgayling settlement was created in Gurupura village near Hunsur, Dhondenling was established at Oderapalya near Kollegal and Doeguling settlement came into being at Mundgod in Uttara Kannada district, all in Karnataka. The Bir Tibetan Colony was established in Bir, Himachal Pradesh. Other states have provided land for Tibetan refugees.

The Government of India built special schools for Tibetans that provide free education, health care and scholarships for those students who excel in school. There are a few medical and civil engineering seats reserved for Tibetans. Tibetans live in India with a stay permit which is processed through a document called Registration Certificate (RC). It is renewed every year, or half-year in some areas. Every Tibetan refugee above the age of 16 must register for the stay permit. RCs are not issued to new arrival refugees. The Indian Government also issues "Yellow Books" after one years' processing with a RC, which allow Tibetans to travel abroad which is an Identity Certificate.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

GoI info regarding Tibetans
http://www.immigrationindia.nic.in/Instr_Tibetans2.htm

Information Pertaining Tibetan Nationals
Status of Tibetan in India:

Tibetans who entered India upto 1959 will be entitled to rehabilitation benefits as temporary refugees in India.

Children born till 1987 to Tibetans who entered India up to 1959 will also be entitled to rehabilitation benefits as temporary refugees in India.

Tibetans who arrived in India till 30th May 2003 are classified in a separate category of Long Term Stay and issued Registration Certificates by FRROs/FROs.

Tibetans Entry Process:

Tibetans can enter India after 30.10.2002 on Special Entery Permits (SEP) issued by embassy of India Kathmandu.

Tibetans shall be permitted to enter India ONLY through the designated check-post at Sonauli in Uttar Pradesh and Raxual in Bihar with a Special Entry Permit (SEP) issued by the competent authority.

Further they may ensure that proper immigration stamp of entry is affixed on the SEP by the immigration authorities of the check post. All Tibetans are required to report about their arrival at TRC, Delhi or TRC, Dharamshala as the case may be.
Registration of Tibetan Refugee /National in India:

1. Tibetan entering on SEPs:

All Tibetans, including children, arriving in India under the Special Entry Permit (SEP) scheme should report to the local FRRO/FRO having jurisdiction of the area within 14 days of thier arrival in India for registration, irrespective of their purpose of visit and validity of SEP for registration alongwith the following documents: -

1. Valid Special Entry Permit with proper immigration stamp of entry of the check post,
2. Residential proof,
3. Recommendation letter from Tibetan Reception Centre/Tibetan Settlement Officer/CTA or any other authority so designated by the Central Government,
4. Valid bona fide certificate from a recognized Institute/School/University in case the puprpose of visit to India is "Education".

2. Tibetan born in India:

Registration Certificate for Tibetan children born in India may be obtain from the concerned FRRO/FRO on production of the following documents: -

1. Birth Certificate issued by the competent authority under the Registration of Births.
2. Registration Certificate of both the parents.
3. Proof of residence.
4. Letter from TSO (Tibetan Settlement Officer)

3. Tibetan entering India for education purpose:

Tibetans entering India, on SEP, for the purpose of education are issued Registration Certificates for the duration of the course or one year, which ever is earlier.

4. No request for change in purpose specified in SEP is entertained.

Tibetans coming to India for the purpose of education are allowed extension of stay by the concerned FRRO/FRO on year-to-year basis on production of the proof of registration, (ii) residential proof and (iii) bona-fide certificate from the recognized/approved educational insitution in India.
5. Tibetans entering India for pilgrimage purposes:

Tibetans entering India, on SEP valid for one month are given Registration Certificate by the concerned FRROs/FROs for the duration of the SEP.
6. Tibetans entering India for other purposes:

Tibetans entering India, on SEP, for other purposes are given Registration Certificates for a period up to six months only.
Procedure for tibetan refugees/Tibetans intending to visit abroad:

Tibetans Refugees/Tibetans Natioinals in India shall visit another country ONLY on the strength of the valid Identity Certificate (IC) issued by MEA/Regional Passport Office.

They are required to obtain No Objection to Return to India (NORI) permission from the FRRO State Government.

Tibetan Refugees/Nationials may approach the concerned FRROs/FROs office and obtain an exit permit/NORI with the following documents: -

1. Duly filled Applicaton Form,
2. One photograph,
3. Copy of Registration Book,
4. Copy of Identity Certificate,
5. Recommendation Letter from CTA or any other authority so designated by the Central Government,

Tibetans Refugees/Tibetans who visit abroad on any travel document other than Identity Certificate as also without obtaining NORI from the FRRO/State Government concerned would cease to be eligible for Temporary Refugee/Long Term Stay Status in India.
Miscellaneous:

Tibetans who enter Dharamshala on the SEPs may also visit other parts of the country. However, if he remains absent from the registered address for a continuous period of eight weeks or more or it he is changing his registered address, he shall inform the Registration Officer of his intenstion to leave either temporarily or permanently the jursdiction of the Registration Officer and the Registration Officer shall stamp the same in his RC. He is also required to report to the concerned FRRO/FRO on arrival at the intended destination. Prior intimation in this regard shall be given by FRO, Dharamshala.
Extension of RC/RP:

The Registration Certificate in respect of all Tibetan Refugees/Tibetans staying in India on long term basis are renewed annually by the concerned FRROs/FROs.

All Tibetans (Except physically challenged) should personally present their request for extension of stay with all the requsitie documents to the concerned FRRO/FRO.

Extension of Stay.

Tibetan refugees holding valid registration certificates (RC) can obtain extension of stay for 1 year on production of the following documents:

1. Visa Extension Form with one photo pasted on the form.
2. Copy of valid and notorised Lease/Rent agreement Or copy of C-form from the Hotel or copy of recent electricity / telephone bill along with the letter from the landlord, towards proof of residence.
3. Registration Certificate book in original.

Fee:

No fee is charged for extension of Residential Certificate/Residential Permit. However, penal action is taken for non-registration within the stipulated time-frame of 14 days (under Rule 6(1) & 7 (a) of the Registration of Foreigners Rules, 1992) and non-extension of RCs (Under Section 14(a) of the Foreigners Act, 1946).
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,, ... 821,0.html
Tibetan refugees have settled in India by the tens of thousands since 1959, when the Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, and many of his followers fled to northern India to escape a Chinese crackdown (Representative 20 Mar 2003). India hosted some 110,000 Tibetan refugees as of the end of 2001 (U.S. DOS 4 Mar 2002). The U.S. Committee for Refugees reports that “[t]he number of Tibetan refugees in India fluctuates because of the arrival of more than 1,000 refugees from Tibet each year and the return of unknown numbers to Tibet” (USCR 2002). Many of the early refugees eventually put down new roots in agricultural and handicrafts settlements established mainly in the 1960s and 1970s in southern India and other parts of the country. Because the settlements have limited agricultural land, more recent Tibetan refugees have settled mainly in the northern Indian hill station of Dharamsala, the Dalai Lama’s home-in-exile (Representative 20 Mar 2003). Tibetans do not enjoy the same rights as Indian citizens, such as formal participation in Indian politics or the ability to carry a legal Indian passport, but are free to work and own property in India (IRB-RD Sep 1999).
Tibetans traveling to India via Nepal generally lack valid travel documents, and most are unable to obtain legal residence permits once they reach India. Most enter Nepal from Tibet through isolated mountain passes and lack Nepalese visas or any official travel papers (TIN 15 Feb 2002).

Once they reach Kathmandu, Nepal, most Tibetans are eligible to receive a card issued by the local office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) that lists their personal details and states that, “the holder of this card is a person of concern to UNHCR.” The card does not bear the UNHCR’s logo or contain UNHCR contact information (TIN 2 Jul 2002). In practice, these cards often are not available, and most Tibetan arrivals do not even know to ask for them, according to the executive director of the London-based Tibet Information Network (TIN) (Executive Director 17 Mar 2003).

According to the vice-president of the California-based Tibet Justice Center:

“The ‘of concern’ interview is not a prima facie refugee-status determination, except to the extent that it screens out persons who are not, in fact, Tibetan. It’s very pro forma and (deliberately) vague” (Vice President 19 Mar 2003).

Nepalese authorities want Tibetans who are processed by the UNHCR to be out of the country within two weeks. In practice, most such Tibetans remain in Nepal only until there are enough of them to fill one of the buses that are used to transport them to the Dalai Lama’s home-in-exile at Dharamsala, India. This wait can take anywhere from one week to several months. The departing Tibetans receive a group exit permit from the [Nepalese] Department of Immigration that is taken from them when they cross the border with India. This means that most Tibetans enter India without any valid papers (Vice President 19 Mar 2003).
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

Comment:
Tibetans in India cause China great takleef. The more they torture, suppress and kill Tibetans in Tibet, the greater the influx of refugees and the greater the possibility of support to a Tibetan uprising. As one of the links above shows the border between India and Uttar Arunachal (Tibet) cannot be sealed completely by the Chinese and there is an influx of people who being tidings of what is happening there.

Chine needs to get its act right and ensure the rights of Tibetans and freedom of religion rahr than Buddhism out of Mao's book. This thread is for news and views.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

cross post
SSridhar wrote:Terrorists from Tibet may target Dalai Lama: Mumbai Cops
The Mumbai police have received intelligence inputs that some terrorists from the Tibetan region of China may sneak in to India to eliminate the Tibetan spiritual guru, the Dalai Lama.

The intelligence inputs, a copy of which is with TOI, states that a Chinese national of Tibetan origin by the name Tashi Phuntsok is likely to enter India to gather intelligence on the Tibetan administration as well as to cause harm to the Dalai Lama. The input further states that six Chinese nationals of Tibetan origin, including Phuntsok, possibly from Chinese secret services, are suspected.

"A good number of Chinese youth enter India on business visas, ostensibly for some clandestine activities. It's likely that they may try to visit certain areas prohibited for Chinese like Tibetan camps. The Dalai Lama visits Mumbai and other places in Maharashtra. The threat to him must not be underestimated. Loss of Chinese passport and recovery of unknown Chinese passport need to be reported promptly, so that the concerned agencies can question them. In this regard, the activities of the followers of 'Shugden cult - an anti-Dalai Lama group - need to be kept under strict vigil," the report said.

The Mumbai police have informed Tibetan organizations and directed the special branch and the local police to keep police officers updated about the Dalai Lama's visit to Mumbai. "He often comes to Mumbai and even goes to slums and mixes with people. We will have to enhance security cover form him in Mumbai,'' said a police officer.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

http://boingboing.net/2011/11/02/exiled-tibetans.html
Exiled Tibetans hold memorial for self-immolators protesting Chinese military rule
This morning, a demonstration took place in McLeod Ganj, a quiet Northern Indian village adjacent to the home of the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government-in-exile. In this town on the southern end of the Himalayas, young Tibetan exiles staged a memorial for Tibetans inside China-controlled Tibet who have burned themselves alive in recent months.

11 have self-immolated since February 2009. Most are teenagers or in their early twenties. The youngest was 17. It is an expression of despair, and an act of protest against increasingly harsh Chinese military crackdown on ethnic Tibetan cultural, religious, and social systems. For a list of the names, dates, and locations, read on (and there is more background at standupfortibet.org).
Our Demands:

The People’s Republic of China must:

1. Immediately remove security personnel from the Ngaba (Ch: Aba) and Kardze (Ch: Ganzi) regions and from individual monasteries. All monks must be allowed to return unconditionally to their respective monasteries in the Ngaba and Kardze regions.

2. Release all those detained in connection to the 10 self-immolations since 16 March 2011 and account for the whereabouts and well-being of all those who have self-immolated since February 2009.

3. Allow foreign diplomats and independent foreign media unfettered access to all Tibetan areas, especially the regions of Ngaba and Kardze.

4. Immediately suspend the implementation of religious and security policies in Ngaba.

We call on G20 Leaders and other Governments to:

1. In partnership with other concerned governments, insist that the People’s Republic of China accede to the above demands, including allowing diplomats and media access to Tibetan areas.

2. Express their concern about the situation in Ngaba directly to Hu Jintao in the fringes of the G20 summit in Cannes, France.

3. Jointly démarche (officially reprimand)China concerning the situation in Ngaba, seeking a full accounting for the removal of monks from Kirti Monastery, including an explanation of the pretext or conditions under which monks were removed and their current whereabouts.

4. Urgently establish, with other concerned governments, an appropriate and effective multi-lateral mechanism through which future diplomatic measures concerning Tibet can be agreed.

NOTES TO EDITOR:

List of Self-Immolations in Tibet (11 to date; 10 in 2011 and one in 2009)

27 February 2009, Ngaba: Tapey, mid-20s, of Kirti Monastery. Whereabouts unknown.

16 March 2011, Ngaba: Lobsang Phuntsok, 20, of Kirti Monastery. Died 17 March 2011.

15 August 2011, Kardze: Tsewang Norbu, 29, monk of Nyitso Monastery. Died at the scene, 15 August 2011.

26 September 2011, Ngaba: Lobsang Kelsang, 18, monk of Kirti Monastery. In hospital. Lobsang Kunchok, 19 , a monk of Kirti Monastery. In a different hospital to Lobsang Kelsang.

3 October 2011, Ngaba: Kelsang Wangchuk, 17, monk of Kirti Monastery. In hospital.

7 October 2011, Ngaba: Choephel, 19 former monk of Kirti Monastery. Died 11 October 2011. Khaying, 18, former monk of Kirti Monastery. Died 8 October 2011.

15 October 2011, Ngaba: Norbu Dramdul, 19, former monk of Kirti Monastery. Taken away, whereabouts unknown.

17 October 2011, Ngaba: Tenzin Wangmo, 20, nun of Ngaba Mamae Choekorling Nunnery. Died at the scene, 17 October 2011.

25 October 2011, Kardze: Dawa Tsering, 38, monk of Kardze Monastery. Status unknown, possibly being cared for in Kardze Monastery after refusing hospital treatment.

Organized by Students for a Free Tibet and RTYC- Dharamsala: www.studentsforafreetibet.org www.sftindia.org
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shiv
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

shiv
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

Tibetans thank India for hospitality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULOONPlHxsk
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

SwamyG
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by SwamyG »

shiv wrote:Comment:
Tibetans in India cause China great takleef. The more they torture, suppress and kill Tibetans in Tibet, the greater the influx of refugees and the greater the possibility of support to a Tibetan uprising. As one of the links above shows the border between India and Uttar Arunachal (Tibet) cannot be sealed completely by the Chinese and there is an influx of people who being tidings of what is happening there.

Chine needs to get its act right and ensure the rights of Tibetans and freedom of religion rahr than Buddhism out of Mao's book. This thread is for news and views.
Other than causing takleef, what can Tibetans and India really do to China? We view Pakistan as a thorn on our side, and China probably is going to view us similarly? So not only we have not managed to free Tibet, but Arunachal Pradesh itself seems to be in trouble.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

SwamyG wrote: Other than causing takleef, what can Tibetans and India really do to China? We view Pakistan as a thorn on our side, and China probably is going to view us similarly? So not only we have not managed to free Tibet, but Arunachal Pradesh itself seems to be in trouble.

Perspective is everything. We never set out to free Tibet and we are going keep Arunachal. Just because there is trouble means nothing unless you yearn for some idyllic peace where no one covets what we have. That will never happen.

May I ask a rhetorical counter question? Other than causing takleef to us how does this visa business affect India? China is trying to cause counter takleef to India because 150,000 rebels whom the Chinese consider Chinese citizens are living as designated refugees in India from an independent state of Tibet. They are pointedly being maintained as Tibetans as state guests of India. After all, if you look at how we react to Bangladeshis or Pakis entering India, we whine that they are getting citizenship because the government is corrupt and weak. But hey wouldn't it be easier for Indian cowards to declare Tibetans as Indians or tell them to get out. Solves China's problem and India does not have to appear bold.

China does not seem to have the same degree of control over Tibet as it has over the drones out in Beijing and Shanghai. Our intense nail biting anxiety that the Chinese are about to kick our backsides - a feeling common on BRF prevents us from actually even talking about what India is doing with Tibetans.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by SwamyG »

So it is more than 60 years now since Tibet was annexed. We did not 'set out to free', maybe we are waiting for an opportune moment when China is at its weakest. Maybe just like Pakistan is imploding, we could wait till China implodes when its citizens will raise against authoritarian regime.

My dreams, rather wishes are simple - Tibet's freedom from China. Tibetan kingdoms existed for centuries along with the Chinese kingdoms. They were warring with each other for a long time. So all I dream is that status - Tibet and China existing independently as neighbors.

I do not care if India appears weak or bold. I do believe there were/are good people at the helm of Indian affairs. If all they have done so far is offer a place for the refugees and Tibetan DL, then they could think:
1) Keeping the hopes of Tibetans is the best they could do now.
2) They do not want to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries.
3) They think they can do nothing to change China's behavior.
4) Or like I said earlier, waiting for an opportune moment.

The Chinese and Indian military prowess or lack of it means little when years roll by while Tibet continues to exist as a Chinese territory. One could raise a counter point - British, officially took over India in 1857, it took 90 years for India to get its freedom. Tibet has been under Chinese control for just 60+ years now, so give it more time. If some raises that point, then it only corroborates my #3 above.

Irrespective of the type of war between and India and China in the near or far future, what matters is what happens to the Tibet territory. Culturally it had long been part of Indian dharmic influence - Hindu and Buddhist. While there is an emotional component of it be an Indic territory, much water has flown under the bridge now. Personally, I would be just happy if Tibet existed as an independent country.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

^^^
Well said. An independent, democratic, pluralistic country closely tied economically and culturally to India.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by shiv »

SwamyG wrote: Personally, I would be just happy if Tibet existed as an independent country.
No one can dispute that. But it's going to need work.

If you look at the broader picture. Tibetan freedoms are linked to the freedoms allowed by the Communist Tinpots of China (CTC). If the CTC can grant Tibet more freedoms than they grant others they risk an internal backlash - so the commie tinpots have to maintain a tight leash in the name of "equality" and loyalty to the party.

Just like early Islamist training causing fear of kafirs, you find the Chicom tinpot system taking impressionable young minds and putting them through grenade throwing military training. And the Chicom party is paranoid of "freedoms".

If you have read Naipaul's Islamic nations series - Among the Believers and the one that came later ( I forget the name) - he speaks of interviewing an Indonesian Islamist who uses the example of a tied goat saying that the goat is secure and well fed and has no need to wander so it is OK to keep it tied. Islam is like that - it ties you and gives you all you need so there is no need to wander. The hidden thing here is the punishment if you try to wander.

The Chinese communist party does exactly that. It tells its people "No need to wander. Just be loyal to the party and we will give you all you need. Whether we like it or not the tinpots have built a powerful system. The weakest link in the system is the security and status of the Commie leaders themselves. They react most strongly against the "indiscipline" of those who break sharia er. communist party rule. Freedom to choose for people means lack of freedom for the communist party to rule forever. The communist party is aided by the relative (but not absolute) homogeneity of the people of eastern China. It is the west, with Tibet and Xinjiang that are problems. the Chicom party has shown its weakness by making exceptions for non Hans regarding the one child per family rule. That is not liberalism. It is fear of being unable to push thought that particular coercion.

Tibetans under Chinese rule are a living example of how the Communist party have grabbed and held power for decades. The strong-arm tactics used by the commies of Bengal should give us some idea of what communism does to stay in power.

The CPC has 80 million members according to recent news. That is perhaps 7% of the Chinese population. You cannot keep 80 million people loyal without extra sops. But in a closed system you cannot allow others to know that those 80 million are getting some extra benefits. There is an internal weakness in the system. That system has to come crashing down before the Chinese and Tibetan people can get freedom and it becomes easier for us to coexist. Until them we will have Chinese drones playing the role of the Indonesian goat saying "I don't need freedom if I have wealth". They will make it a point to laugh at freedom and poverty.

Why Tibet, even China and India will be better tied commercially and culturally if the tinpots have their chaddis removed.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by SwamyG »

I read one of Naipaul's books where he visits four Islamic countries starting with Iran. You are saying the Chinese regime is adharmic - in the sense it is unsustainable in the long run because the characteristic of the system is such that the central authoritative team has to tightly keep its members and people in leash. And at some time in the future, such systems will collapse. The Chinese regime is propped up by the entire World, as we silently buy their goods and only testing them here and there. It is like we buy through our left hand, meanwhile take a jab at them now and then.

Considering the population of India, China has less incentive to occupy highly dense areas of India; and will only attempt to steal less dense areas. In the past, the Tibetan or the Indian Kingdoms did not hesitate to wage battle when necessary. Similarly, in the past the Kingdoms of Europe did not hesitate to fight among themselves. In the 21st century, except USA nobody is ready to directly wage war. Proxy wars are the norm. The question then becomes, just like in the case of Pakistan, what should India do? Should India:
1. Hasten the collapse.
2. Wait the system to collapse on its own.
3. Slowly help dismantling the system.

#2 and #3 are long drawn processes.
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Re: Tibetans in India: Status and future

Post by rajrang »

shiv wrote:Comment:
Tibetans in India cause China great takleef. The more they torture, suppress and kill Tibetans in Tibet, the greater the influx of refugees and the greater the possibility of support to a Tibetan uprising. As one of the links above shows the border between India and Uttar Arunachal (Tibet) cannot be sealed completely by the Chinese and there is an influx of people who being tidings of what is happening there.

Chine needs to get its act right and ensure the rights of Tibetans and freedom of religion rahr than Buddhism out of Mao's book. This thread is for news and views.

Love the name Uttar Arunachal! Suggest that this be the standard name for Tibet in BR similar to TSP!
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