Indian Army: News & Discussion

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Rahul M
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

Badar wrote:.......
It's not particularly applicable to VKS, but I do stand by my opinion. I suspect think you don't particularly disagree with my position either, perhaps in particulars but not in gist.
yup and I do admit I didn't read through the thread.
If the court case is indeed ruled in his favor, do the practical exigencies of governance allow anything but his continuance in his current role?
I have a sneaking suspicion he might resign on his own to prove his point, esp if he wins the court case.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Badar »

Rahul M wrote:I have a sneaking suspicion he might resign on his own to prove his point, esp if he wins the court case.
Indeed. I am glad I am not the only one who hold a higher opinion of him that his many voluble supporters.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Sidhant »

I fail to understand the gripe here.

If the argument is that Govt is supreme as per the constitution then the very same constitution acknowledges that Govt can be wrong and allows the the redressal mechanism via judiciary. Whats wrong with VKS going to judiciary for getting his concerns addressed. He is not challenging the supremacy of the Govt, he is merely challenging a decision which he feels is wrong. There have been numerous instances where the Governments have been dragged to court by individuals. They were not challenging the constitution or supremacy of government. They were merely challenging decision on the government.

If its the matter that COAS should not go to Court as it sets the wrong preference then I feel it is more important that the MOD, PM and RM (Raksha Mantri) should have set even better precedence of gracefully accepting their mistake and correct it before the matter got out of hand. Coz by not accepting and correcting their mistakes the MOD, PM and RM are setting even worse precedence. This means that all the three offices MOD, the office of PM and office of RM (Raksha Mantri) have the right to commit mistakes and then brush them under the carpet. Commiting mistake is okay, brushing it under the carpet is not okay. I doubt our constitution allows for that no matter how sacrosanct the office of PM or RM are.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

Sometimes "sacrifice" can be a manifestation of ego. Righteousness with dispassion is best.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

Actually, the last DNA article linked by ramana slips the cat out of the bag i.e. the babus by using the politicians as proxy want to ensure that Services remain under their thumb. All this "juniors going to court against seniors" is a facade to hide the intentions of the babus. They are worried that this episode will create a precedent and Services will not take nonsense from IAS walas any further. They are worried about their turf and absolute control;everything else is just an eyewash. But they made a fundamental mistake - they pushed VKS into the corner by that hit-job through "upright" journo unnithan...after that article got published and by god, what temerity? "Self before Service"? there was no way VKS was going w/o a fight.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Sanku »

Badar wrote:
Rahul M wrote:I have a sneaking suspicion he might resign on his own to prove his point, esp if he wins the court case.
Indeed. I am glad I am not the only one who hold a higher opinion of him that his many voluble supporters.
Sorry there is no merit or high morality in resignation. Resignations are for cowards.

The right option is to stay and solider on.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Sanku, I didn't see your quote of WW Inge earlier. If you see the DNA article I linke the MoD senior official uses the royal "us"!

Gives an indication where the MoD is coming from. They truly mis-led the Minister.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by suryag »

I somehow feel the trap was set up to ease out AKA and if they get Gen.VKS it is a bonus or is it the other way around. Time will tell
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

ramana wrote: <SNIP>Gives an indication where the MoD is coming from. They truly mis-led the Minister.
That is the crux of the debate. The babus mis-leading Saint Antony and using the bogey of Civilian Supremacy to complicate a simple case. However, I'm willing to go further and alledge that General DK and JJ might well have a role to play. They could not have done what they did w/o having the babucracy at MOD in cahoots - so, everyone was expecting a big party and to me, it seems that some quid pro quo were to be in order. May be the allegations about arms deals by Vishnu Bhagwat have a mreit. People were anticipating one big party. But VKS being what he is, he has put the spanner in the works. A true Kshatriya, righful bearer of the legacy of the Rajputs.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by anjan »

Badar wrote: Oh but I thought his whole stand was for principles and nothing to do with tenure. So evidently his honor satisfied means his effort was not wasted.

Now to silence all the people who are whispering that he did it for personal profit he has to resign for the sake of the service, no?
I'm sorry, why should he resign exactly? To satisfy you personally? Ultimately he's seeking an administrative remedy for arbitrary actions of the govt. Why is he not entitled to this RoG process?

You're also wrong about the idea that the govt. is entitled to seek pliant people to positions. They're entitled to professionals. Who'll give the best possible advice under a set of circumstances. Anything less is not in the interests of the country. This isn't limited to the military either. Advisers to the govt can't be arbitrarily picked. That's why some democracies have a confirmation process with a second constitutional wing involved, the legislature. Given the blurring of the legislature and the executive in a parliamentary system the remaining watchdog is the judiciary. You'd like that to be taken away too? The government is the ultimate arbiter but professionals are needed to state their opinion on the record if only for the people to be able to apportion blame.

When oversight wanes you get political yes men. Chaps like Thapar and Kaul and you end up with 1962 and the unnecessary deaths of young men.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Someone needs to show Saint Anthony the door...what a blithering buffoon! And Manmohan Singh has once again proved that he is Mr InAction! L K Advani is right....Manmohan Singh is truly the weakest prime minister ever! Both of them deserve the "chudiyan award" for 2012.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ManuT »

"Army is to Obey" but does this mean that GOI can act on whims. civilian supremacy. Very good for pointing out a part of IA's values.
'civilian supremacy' is not in dispute but is grossly over stated.

There is no doubt that when soldiers sign up they give up right to speak on political matters, while in uniform, and hence become invisible. A long time ago the convention for voting in an election within soldiers was to vote for the party in power, to keep things simple. Even then postal ballot was a joke, arrived in the mail long after the election. Literally they are still orphans as far as a political constituency are concerned and could be French Foreign Legion as far as politicians are concerned, because body bags go to different places. Soldiers are Volunteers who opted for these services. This does not mean they are goats or fodder.

2 things are very clear. 1. Army is to Obey. 2. Illegal orders are meant to be disobeyed. In the current matter there is no order to be 'obeyed' or 'disobeyed', coming from GOI, that is for the army chief to leave, yet.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Something good might come out of this after all.

TOI reports moves to create CDS and make Gen. VKS the first one. Lets hope this happens.

But then currents Chiefs of Staff is Adm N. Verma who is senior to Gen. VKS.

Age Row: Govt trying to work out truce with Army Chief
NEW DELHI: Last ditch efforts are underway at the highest levels of the government to find a peace formula to ward off the ugly prospect of an all-out legal battle in Supreme Court over Army chief General V K Singh's petition challenging the government's determination that he was born in 1950.

Discussions are underway to hammer out a formula to mollify the general, and prevent his petition from being heard in the apex court, without making it appear that the government has succumbed to pressure.

No formula has yet emerged, but pieces of what could possibly be the scheme to resolve the conflict can be glimpsed and they suggest that the crisis can blow over if government acknowledges his claim to have been born in 1951 and accommodates him in some other role.

The post of Chief of Defence Staff, a post mooted after the Kargil war but has not been created yet, could be one of the options. Billed to be the single point military advisor to the government, the CDS will be positioned above the three Service chiefs: a job profile that would make irrelevant the issue of when Singh retires as Army chief. The offer has to be made soon in order to get the general withdraw his petition.

There are indications that the CDS has figured in preliminary discussions that government's representatives have held with sympathizers of Gen Singh, although there is no indication that government was ready to put the offer on the table yet.

However, authoritative sources confirmed the government could consider "accepting" May 10, 1951 as the date of birth recorded on the basis of Class X certificate of Gen Singh. It would satisfy the general's key demand that his "honour and integrity" be protected, while scotching any perception that he misrepresented facts so that he continues in office for a few more months. To scotch any impression of backpedalling, the government will stick to its insistence that Gen Singh was appointed as the Army chief based on official files that showed his date of birth as May 10, 1950 and, therefore, he should retire on May 31 this year.

The idea of offering the general an alternative position has been mooted to compensate him for losing out on the 'extra time' of service that he would have been entitled to if he was deemed to have been born in 1951, as well as to make up for the hassles he faced.

A senior official said that while hurt, the government is still wary of the prospect of engaging the country's Army chief in a legal combat. "We wouldn't want to see an all-out fight in the court. It would not be good for both sides," he said. The remark appeared to reflect government's thinking.


Authoritative sources said there have been consultations between Gen Singh and some key contacts after he filed a statutory complaint with the ministry of defence. Among them were finance minister Pranab Mukherjee and national security advisor Shivshankar Menon. Defence minister A K Antony had deputed defence secretary Shashikant Sharma to work out a compromise formula.

However, what went wrong in the final moments, which led to MoD issuing a formal rebuttal to the statutory complaint filed by Gen Singh and his subsequent decision to move Supreme Court is yet not clear. :mrgreen: It is being recognized that political leadership should have directly engaged with the general instead of leaving the issue to bureaucrats who don't inspire much confidence in the military even in "peace" times.
I hope this doesn't create a new issue. Adm Verma is more senior.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

One reason for this unhappy mess is that the Army and the services are treated in a very special desi way by the politico-babu nexus.They are part of the "family",much loved, but like a pet,kept in the kennel,to be brought out and proudly shown off at dog shows,like the upcoming Republic Day parade-coats,spick and span to wow the crowd and instil envy and fear in the neighbour's mind,let out only at night to guard the home,but still not allowed into the house as a true pet should be,but kept at arms length,lest it bites the master and servants!
The attitude is,"obey" at all times.Commands are such."Sit","Jump","on trust" and "paid for" for bikkis and treats,"catch","fetch","bark" and "bite him!",when the neighbour gets too bolshie or intrudes into one's territory, and keep silent like a dumb animal at all times,especially when family affairs are being discussed in the house ,even if family disputes threaten to bring the house down! If the dog howls in protest at being neglected or beaten by a serf/babu,to keep him happy,tell him to "chase the cat" or throw him a bone!

It is equivalent to a "master-slave" relationship.Not one of what it really should be,a relationship between the Chairman of the Board and his directors.Here,the service chiefs being the "directors"/"chief consultants" in charge of security affairs,whose views,input and expertise need to be factored in when making company policy,very much a key integral part of the part of the entire group and "inside" the establishment,not treated as "lepers",confined to "leper colonies"/cantonements,and whose status keeps on getting downgraded protocol-wise year after year by babudom.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

^^^Philip Sir, for one, I agree with every word of your above post. Bravo! Well spelt!!!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

ramana wrote:
However, what went wrong in the final moments, which led to MoD issuing a formal rebuttal to the statutory complaint filed by Gen Singh and his subsequent decision to move Supreme Court is yet not clear. :mrgreen:
I hope this doesn't create a new issue. Adm Verma is more senior.
ramana, to me, it seems that babucracy was not interested in any compromise from day 1. They tried all the antics including the IT Article plant and things actually broke down. VKS would have expected the political class to reign in the babus but it seems, the babus all the while were on different tangent.By forcing him to go to court and public-mud slinging and raising the bogey of Civilian supremacy, they wanted to force the GOI's hand. May be, saner heads in babucracy and politicians will prevail.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by arnab »

rohitvats wrote: That is the crux of the debate. The babus mis-leading Saint Antony and using the bogey of Civilian Supremacy to complicate a simple case. However, I'm willing to go further and alledge that General DK and JJ might well have a role to play. They could not have done what they did w/o having the babucracy at MOD in cahoots - so, everyone was expecting a big party and to me, it seems that some quid pro quo were to be in order. May be the allegations about arms deals by Vishnu Bhagwat have a mreit. People were anticipating one big party. But VKS being what he is, he has put the spanner in the works. A true Kshatriya, righful bearer of the legacy of the Rajputs.
exactly! ! Not everything is about MMS trying to give away Kashmir to Pakis :) Similarly the issue of 'pliant chiefs' is a two way street. If GOI wants a pliant chief and the army throws up one - then there is a problem with the army (Note I define 'pliant' as one who chooses to crawl when merely asked to bend).

The issue of the 'wrong' type of officers being promoted is something which Gen VKS has been apparently trying to change. Some folks allege that this is a throwback to 2002 when Gen Paddy instituted the 'quota' system which ensured that a fixed number of officers from the mechanised / armoured corps had to be promoted irrespective of merit. I don't think anybody offered up dark conspiracy theories about the NDA govt at the time.

So there are lots of 'interests' being tread upon by VKS. Handing over kashmir or Siachen is the least of them.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by amit »

arnab wrote:So there are lots of 'interests' being tread upon by VKS. Handing over kashmir or Siachen is the least of them.
+1

Raising the bogey of Kashmir and Siachen (handover to the Pakis) the moment an incompetent Govt does a screw up, IMO only diminished the importance of these two issues. If we cry "wolf" all the time then...
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by SBajwa »

I think that the CDS is the best option. I can't believe that there is no CDS as of today!!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

SBajwa wrote:I think that the CDS is the best option. I can't believe that there is no CDS as of today!!
Admiral Verma may resign then.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

Make VKS the Defense Minister or Defense Secretary. :) Fire the incumbents in these positions.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Kanson »

NEW DELHI: Last ditch efforts are underway at the highest levels of the government to find a peace formula to ward off the ugly prospect of an all-out legal battle in Supreme Court over Army chief General V K Singh's petition challenging the government's determination that he was born in 1950.

Discussions are underway to hammer out a formula to mollify the general, and prevent his petition from being heard in the apex court, without making it appear that the government has succumbed to pressure.
:rotfl: Well, these politicos knows very well from the beginning they don't had any chance. Even Law ministry stood behind VKS initially. To gain a moral upper hand and to give a show for public consumption, Attorney General opinion was sort, which was fabricated anyway, under the belief & calculated risk that as no Chief went to court so far, they could close the matter to their satisfaction. But VKS broke that tradition. If the so called 'clinching evidence' as made out by Attorney General came before the court, this Gov goose is cooked completely beyond repair, as more skeletons are going to tumble out.
No formula has yet emerged, but pieces of what could possibly be the scheme to resolve the conflict can be glimpsed and they suggest that the crisis can blow over if government acknowledges his claim to have been born in 1951 and accommodates him in some other role.

The post of Chief of Defence Staff, a post mooted after the Kargil war but has not been created yet, could be one of the options. Billed to be the single point military advisor to the government, the CDS will be positioned above the three Service chiefs: a job profile that would make irrelevant the issue of when Singh retires as Army chief. The offer has to be made soon in order to get the general withdraw his petition.

There are indications that the CDS has figured in preliminary discussions that government's representatives have held with sympathizers of Gen Singh, although there is no indication that government was ready to put the offer on the table yet.
See, unless their back is on fire, and caught themselves in a cookie jar, they won't do the right things. It gives the only impression that unless you force the government, it only do things in their or master's interest. What kind of Gov is this?
A senior official said that while hurt, the government is still wary of the prospect of engaging the country's Army chief in a legal combat. "We wouldn't want to see an all-out fight in the court. It would not be good for both sides," he said. The remark appeared to reflect government's thinking.
Actually it is not good for Gov. Army gains more from this.
However, what went wrong in the final moments, which led to MoD issuing a formal rebuttal to the statutory complaint filed by Gen Singh and his subsequent decision to move Supreme Court is yet not clear. :mrgreen: It is being recognized that political leadership should have directly engaged with the general instead of leaving the issue to bureaucrats who don't inspire much confidence in the military even in "peace" times.

:rotfl: :rotfl: Now the blame is shifted to babus, huh?

It is the babus who correctly pointed out the mistakes, earlier. But they changed their tune under political direction. This mess is totally belong to politicos and certain babus who went with them.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Kanson »

rohitvats wrote:
ramana wrote: <SNIP>Gives an indication where the MoD is coming from. They truly mis-led the Minister.
That is the crux of the debate. The babus mis-leading Saint Antony and using the bogey of Civilian Supremacy to complicate a simple case. However, I'm willing to go further and alledge that General DK and JJ might well have a role to play. They could not have done what they did w/o having the babucracy at MOD in cahoots - so, everyone was expecting a big party and to me, it seems that some quid pro quo were to be in order. May be the allegations about arms deals by Vishnu Bhagwat have a mreit. People were anticipating one big party. But VKS being what he is, he has put the spanner in the works. A true Kshatriya, righful bearer of the legacy of the Rajputs.

Babus did not mis-lead St Antony in presenting the facts, at least. But they did gave encouragement to politicos to not do things which is deemed correct and appropriate.

All hands have to join together if it has to be one big party - Army, MoD and Politicos.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Murugan »

Hindustan Times has special interests.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Murugan »

Chat Room

Et tu, Antony?

Apropos ‘A K Antony, Saavdhaan!’ (ET, Jan 19). It has hit the head of several nails. Here is the crucial question: since when did the Military Secretary’s Branch take the date as mentioned in the UPSC application form as the official date for all officers? Equally amusing is the talk of “upsetting the succession plan” that you have rightly rubbished. That reveals the real personality-driven hidden motives. Could the government tell us the succession plan when Gen Thapar was eased out, when Lt Gen Sinha was superseded, when Admiral Bhagwat was dismissed, when army chief Gen B C Joshi and Air Chiefs Subroto Mukherjee and L M Katre suddenly expired? At any point in time, at least 3-4 officers are capable of taking over as chief — that is the best and only effective succession plan. Another very vital issue: is tenure or retirement age more important for a chief ?

Should not chiefs get a fouryear performance-enabling tenure to leave behind a stamp — or is that what the government does not want? What can a two-year chief do: only calculate his pension, promote his favourites, make foreign trips and perhaps massage netas for an ambassadorship or governorship? Let the government take a decision that all chiefs, starting with Gen Singh, will get four years regardless of age, as it used to be till 1966. That itself will take the wind out of all future age controversies. Antony should ensure that he is not as ‘honourable’ as Brutus by killing a career.

T R RAMASWAMI
Mumbai, January 19
ET
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Murugan »

A K Antony, Saavdhaan!

Give Gen Singh justice, dont give in to bureaucratese or a succession conspiracy

T K ARUN

Even now,it is not too late to douse the controversy eating up the reputation,primarily,of defence minister A K Antony and the UPA government and, secondarily, of the Indian Army. The controversy over the date of birth of chief of army staff Gen V K Singh should be settled in an honourable fashion. The General, apparently, is more interested in getting his age record straightened out and his name cleared than in how long he stays on as army chief. He has reportedly no problem stepping down when the government wants him to. But the common people do have a problem, for a matter of principle is involved. The matter of principle is straightforward: a plan to anoint a particular person as chief of the army staff besmirching the name of an honourable soldier should not succeed.

If a section of the army brass deliberately got Gen V K Singhs date of birth recorded as May 10,1950, instead of May 10,1951, the only reason would be to ensure that Gen Singh retired in time to allow a favoured person to succeed him as the army chief. If Gen Singhs year of birth is 1951, he would retire a year later, and so would the intended successor, leaving the coveted post of army chief to someone else. The precise identity of the favoured successor and of the successor were Gen Singh to stay on till 2013 is immaterial. The choice of Indias army chief should not be determined by a conspiracy. If the civilian government has to establish its authority over the armed forces fully and completely, it is in demonstrating and consolidating this principle, not by insisting it has the writ to determine when someone was born. If it wants to, the government can ask Gen Singh to go tomorrow, after setting his age record straight; but then, it should follow through by appointing as his successor not the intended beneficiary of a probable conspiracy but someone else. V K Singh was born in an army hospital. The army keeps records of births and deaths. Army records show that Singh was born on May 10,1951. His matriculation certificate says he was born on that date. It is in an application form submitted to the National Defence Academy that the 1950 date appears. The Generals case is that the application form was filled by the staff of his school, who made an error. He sought to rectify this error time and again, after he joined the service. This application form was the basis for a wrong date entering his official records. In a telling comment on the efficiency of administration in the Indian Army, two sets of records were maintained in the army as to his date of birth, one in the Military Secretarys branch and the other in the Adjutant Generals office. The Adjutant Generals office is supposed to be the official record keeper and the citations accompanying V K Singhs many medals carry the date of birth May 10,1951. The MS branch continued with the 1950 date.

This mattered little to anyone till his promotion came up in 2006 to corps commander. Since corps commanders are the guys in the running for the post of chief of the army staff, Singhs date of birth mattered for the line of succession that would be followed. Singh was virtually coerced into accepting 1950 as the year of his birth by the MS branch. He was told that his promotion was at stake, if he did not accept that date.Gen Singh made a wishy-washy promise to accept whatever was in the organisations larger interest. This was interpreted by the MS branch to show that he had accepted 1950 as the year of his birth. He got his promotion and subsequently rose to the position of the army chief. The legal opinion submitted by the Attorney Generals office hinged on conflating correction of a mistaken entry as to the date of birth with amending the date of birth. Since amendment is not allowed, the MS Office record had to be followed, the law officer reasoned.

For the same reason, and since Singh had committed to his superior, Gen Deepak Kapoor (subsequently indicted in the Adarsh Housing Scam), that he would accept 1950 as his year of birth, the defence ministry also plumped for 1950 as the year of birth. These are technicalities that serve to obfuscate the real date when the man was born. The army hospital record and his matriculation certificate are the most authentic documents available on the subject, not some NDA application form. Gen Singhs age was incidental to his promotions, not conditional on them. As the political leader he is, it was up to Antony to cut through self-defeating technicality and get to the facts underneath. He failed to do so, and even told Parliament that the Generals date of birth was May 10,1950 {candidate for previlege motion?}. He is, in the process, colluding in the conspiracy to anoint a particular person as the next chief of army staff. This, certainly, cannot be his intention. For, Antony is an honourable man (not necessarily in the sense in which another Antony famously used that phrase). Antony seems to suffer from a morbid inability to wield his political authority. This will not do. It is not his job to keep saying yes to whatever his bureaucrats tell him. He should use his political judgment to sort out the mess that has built up over the Generals age. A sensible course would be to correct mistakes in army records this is different from altering the records on Singhs age, ask him to leave and appoint as the next army chief whoever would have succeeded Gen Singh had he stayed on till 2013 or any other competent officer other than the intended beneficiary of a probable conspiracy. Wouldnt this be injustice to Gen Singh He would be paying the price for allowing himself to be bamboozled into accepting a wrong date of birth to get his promotion. This is not so important in the larger scheme of things. Failure on Antonys part to use his political authority at a juncture like this would harm him, his party, his government and our nation.

http://lite.epaper.timesofindia.com/mob ... ublabel=ET
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

Gen Singh fights for truth, honour

M D Nalapat

In the interests of transparency, let it be recorded that this columnist is a supporter of the present Chief of Army Staff of the Indian army, General V K Singh. Although he has never met him, several have given glowing accounts of the general’s integrity and devotion to service. Unfortunately, because of the extremes of corruption found within the Indian political establishment, those elected to high office usually ensure that civilian officials who are willing to go along with their money-making schemes be given promotions and higher responsibility. A “Gresham’s Law” begins to operate in the civil service, whereby corrupt officers drive out the good from high-voltage posts. Because they know that progress in their careers depends on the Minister Saheb’s favour,and that the shortest route to such favour is to help the minister and his family and friends make money,many officials get tempted into courses of action that are well beyond the bounds of ethics and sometimes,even of law. The nexus between corrupt officials and compliant officials has resulted in India having one of the worst-performing civil service structures in the world,as bad as the worst elsewhere,and far below the standard in countries of similar size.

Although the Indian military is still one of the most honest and professional armed forces in the world,it is a fact that politicians and corrupt civilian officials have for long sought to play favourites within the men and women in uniform. An extreme example of this was Prime Minister Nehru getting appointed a relative, B M Kaul,to a sensitive command,when the general’s primary experience was in ensuring that the military’s motor cars ran smoothly. Soon after the appointment, Lt-Gen Kaul (mis)led his troops to disaster at the hands of the PLA. Although most officers have resisted the siren call of politicians, a few have fallen for such lures and have broken away from the code of conduct expected of an officer in the armed forces.When this fact was pointed out by this columnist in the “Times of India” in 1997,he got some vitriolic rejoinders from a few retired officers,whose claim was that the armed forces were “spotless and had no black sheep”.Interestingly,the most vitriolic riposte was penned by an officer involved in the arms trade,and who presumably should have known that his protestations of 100% innocence were false.

However,since then,more and more evidence has come to light about the few within the higher ranks of the military in India who do not resist the lure of money and official favour,and who therefore connive at decisions that are sub-optimal for the forces but which generate huge sums as bribes. Sadly,some of these compromised elements have (with political backing) reached the highest levels of the military,and have subsequently been accomodated in prize civilian posts General V K Singh is different from many of his predecessors,in that he has made a determined effort to cleanse the higher ranks of the military of the few whose conduct stains the name of a great institution.India and the people of this country owe much to the military,which is why General Singh’s effort to ensure accountability and honesty are so welcome.Naturally,this drive against graft has made the present Chief of Army Staff persona non grata among that section of politicians and officials ( both uniformed and otherwise) who have enriched themselves hugely through the tens of billions of dollars in defense contracts that the Indian taxpayer has funded. However,those who admire the Indian armed forces (as does this columnist) wish that the circumstances of his accession to the top military post were not because of the hounding of a brother officer by those unseen hands unhappy at his zeal in fighting corruption in the giving of defense contracts.

That the general was born in 1951 and not 1950 seems beyond doubt. That a branch of the army (which ought not to have been involved in such an issue in the first place) erred in adding an extra year to his life seems patent. What is unfortunate is the obstinacy of the Ministry of Defense in refusing to accept General Singh’s sporting offer to quit in May 2012 (as though he were a year older than he is),if only the MoD admitted that he had not lied about his age. There are civilian officials in the MoD who seek to constantly thrust the doctrine of Civilian Supremacy” into the faces of the military on every occasion,and it is presumably this mindset that prevented a compromise from being worked out. On being - in effect - called a liar,General Singh exercised his constitutional right and went to the Supreme Court,which has been asked to ascertain just who is a liar,General Singh or the establishment which brands him as one. This must be a sad day for Defense Minister A K Antony,who is himself of sterling character,although prone to accepting the advice of the officials briefing him.

The military,like any other institution spending huge amounts of taxpayer cash,should be subjected to a high level of transparency in its operations. Over the past thirteen years,there have been too many reports of misfeasance in matters of procurement, beginning a year before the Kargil skirmishes of 1999. Although this has been spun as a great victory,the fact is that the army allowed itself to be caught napping when General Musharraf’s special forces occupied peak after peak in one of the most sensitive border zones in India. None of the top generals responsible for this failure has had his career blighted.Instead,some have since been handsomely promoted. The failure to critically examine the lapses which led to the Kargil operation and to fix responsibility at the top of the chain of command (rather than pick off scapegoats lower down) has been a danger sign.

To his credit,General Singh did not follow his predecessors in ignoring it,but began taking strong action to ensure a clean and effective force. Had he been given an extra year,the Indian army would have been the better for it. Apart from a handful of officers who pander to politicians and officials,another anomaly is the recent system of “quotas” in promotion lists. A modern army changes its composition over time,or ought to.Because the Germans recognized the importance of tank corps and the French did not,the former trounced the latter in 1940. In modern warfare,the relative roles of infantry, artillery, engineers and others is very different from the past,which is why it is unfortunate that the various wings of the military have had their promotion quotas frozen in a way that goes against the concept of the evolution of warfare and strategy.

Indeed,India would be best advised to spend the money being used up in the purchase of super-expensive aircraft and aircraft carriers in creating a versatile offensive and defensive missile system. As the efficacy of NATO operations has shown,these days missiles are a core weapon of war. Had the MoD encouraged its production in the private sector,by now India would have been as important a manufacturer of missiles as France. Instead,it has been spending billions of dollars in buying missiles from overseas. Relying on foreign countries for core defense needs carries risks that are obvious. Sadly, these have been ignored by the bureaucrats at the Ministry of Defense,most of whom know about as much of missiles as a high-school student.Indeed,less,because these days,such students are far more aware than those much older,thanks to the internet. That Civilian Control is crucial in a democracy is a given,and it is to the credit of General Singh that he has never challenged this axiom. However,when decisions get taken on the basis of considerations extraneous to the professional,then it is the duty of a true officer to seek to ensure that ethics get followed. General Singh has distinguished himself for such a quality,unlike some predecessors who concentrated on picking up expensive tracts of land and property at hugely subsidised prices,and who are today ranged against him.

A massive disinformation campaign has been launched by the middleman fraternity to discredit General Singh (who may be forced to go on leave immediately,thereby bringing his efforts at cleansing the military to be ended). However,he has refused to bow to such innuendo,and is holding his head high,aware that truth and honour are on his side.Even if he loses the administrative battle,and even the legal (because of the volumes of evidence that is being created against him, General V K Singh will enter the annals of military history in India as An Officer and a Gentleman who sought to ensure transparency and accountability at the very top of the ranks of officers of what remains a superb military force .

—The writer is Vice-Chair, Manipal Advanced Research Group, UNESCO Peace Chair & Professor of Geopolitics, Manipal University, Haryana State, India.

http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=136284
ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

If you read all the accounts with an open mind everyone blames the other without anyone being accountable.

The PM blames the RM. RM the civilians and the Attorney General, who in turn blames the Army HQ for giving double entry bookkeeping a new meaning. No one is able to say this is wrong and will be fixed. Clearly MS branch appears to be a Nimrod branch which can benefit from transparency. Its their incorrect records that have caused this fiasco. All who matter counted on the MS Branch. Why didn't the MS Branch try to reconcile the DOB discrepancy?

VK Singh is a high ranking person and could seek redress. How many others of lesser rank did the MS Branch crucify? One outcome has to be a Court of Inquiry to understand if there are systemic issues in that Branch and root them out.

And what is the nonsense of making officers accept wrong Date of Birth under threats of dismissal? Those who were party to it should be made accountable. Maybe a three retired Generals panel should go into it.
krishnan
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by krishnan »

Either they have too big a ego to accept the mistake and correct it or it was done delibrately
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

As if his DOB was not 1951 then CCA would not have given appointments for not being otherwise eligible or senior enough for Corp Commander. :rotfl: We can see the media drift in damage control mode.


well same news says it all in last para trying to sully the name. If that was the case why Army/MOD insisted for 1950?? And why ask unconditional acceptance instead of asking what is his correct DOB. Whether two branches keep different record unreconciled which one is official record keeper as per Army Act was not known o CCA? What was being done by MOD and AKA.
A top government source said, “He need not have given that unconditional commitment and could have said that the age controversy had not been resolved. The ministry would have still recommended him to be promoted as army commander.”
Last edited by chaanakya on 20 Jan 2012 10:20, edited 2 times in total.
ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Either way people who cant fight back suffer.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Murugan »

Not only making officers accepting wrong date of birth but many other things. Otherwise how come Adarsh and sukna scams remainded undetected. Adarsh scam was known only after the building was constructed to its full height.

If one tried to take photographs of naval facility/ships while travelling to elephanta, the navy guys used to chase, beat people and used to snatch cameras. Later on they allowed 30+ storey building to come up near the facilities. What happens?
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Sanku »

The govts desperate waffling can be seen in Congresses main mouth piece, the Hindustan Times, at the same time trying to do a underhand hit job on the General and pressurize him into saving fave for Congress.

Ack thoo....
ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Sanku, Nothing is gained by destruction. If they make CDS thats the amrut from samudra manthan.

Ideal would be like this.
Govt accepts his DOB. Means he is in service longer than May 2012.

Meantime VKS cleans the Augean stables of MS and anywhere else I don't know.

They elevate Adm Nirmal Verma to CDS. Once he retires Gen VKS takes over as ACM Brown is junior.

This way don't lose Adm Verma and better for all that first CDS is not from Army.
nelson
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by nelson »

There is little chance that VKS can be made CDS even if the post is created, since Adm NK Verma, Charman COSC, is senior and retires in Nov 2012.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Sanku »

ramana wrote:Sanku, Nothing is gained by destruction. If they make CDS thats the amrut from samudra manthan.
Ramana Garu, I dont know what worth would a post of CDS be if it is to serve as a damage control exercise for the congress, to save their face, and not for the right reasons.

Some times destruction is good, the cancerous cells need to be destroyed also na.
ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

CDS is needed. It has been the recommendation from KRC onwards and gets put off for one reason or the other.

Most of the politicians have lost face. No one will ask Vahanavati to write even a petition to a municipal council. That guy lost all credibility.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Badar wrote:
Sanku wrote:Fully agree, if court rules in his favor, the least Govt should do, is not fiddle further. Enough damage has been done already.
And his honor satisfied, should the General then take early retirement?

I am hearing that he wants "consequential benefits" because the GOI has pissed him off with their attitude.

If he wins he may continue another eight -ten odd months. Hope he does.
chetak
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:Sanku, Nothing is gained by destruction. If they make CDS thats the amrut from samudra manthan.

Ideal would be like this.
Govt accepts his DOB. Means he is in service longer than May 2012.

Meantime VKS cleans the Augean stables of MS and anywhere else I don't know.

They elevate Adm Nirmal Verma to CDS. Once he retires Gen VKS takes over as ACM Brown is junior.

This way don't lose Adm Verma and better for all that first CDS is not from Army.

This will stick in the throat of the IAF wallas :)
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