Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

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member_22286
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by member_22286 »

devesh wrote:Ashok garu,

the idea of getting the feudals into a self destructive fight is spot on. a sufficiently weakened feudal elite will pave way for new power brokers and aspiring rising segments of the population. this is where India must work its "magic". and India's stamp as the facilitator of this process should be open for the aspiring rising classes to see.
There is another method to get these buggers on to their knee's use communism in the garb of islamism to start a class war.If u look at Pakistan it has all the ills of colonial India with new twists and turns.Feudalism and Bonded labour are the norm in most of pakistan all we need is a mullahs and Abduls who promise land to the proletariat .This will create one hell of a reaction in the society.This can be done but to find the method of doing his we need to understand how the pakjabi rural and urban set-up works in the macroscopic and microscopic levels and the role and interaction

1)Feudals
2)Land
3)Army
4)Rural and Urban Abduls
5)All the religious nutters
6)Water
7)Judiciary
8) Various ethnic groups in Pakistan
9)Various cases and their judgements
10)External factors
If we understand these interactions in Pakjab and Sindh clearly we will be knowing how to wreck it systematically for this we need a separate dedicated thread in the burkha forum and figure out how this works.We will be knowing how to bring it down with the least backlash in the form of nukes or mainly refugees
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Satya_anveshi »

shiv wrote:With due respect to this former intelligence official, I find that he has provided data, as would be expected from a person priviy to information, but has not gone far enough in data analysis.

After a quick(cursory) read, here are some quibbles:

1. What is Al Qaeda? What is Al Qaeda without the support of the Pakistan army? What is the Pakistan army without US support?

2. Splinter groups of rebels often unite when their numbers are decimated and their leaders are dispersed. All this unification of jihad groups could also be a last gasp that would work only if the Pakistani army survives as the most powerful entity

3. The history of the Pakhtun tribals has always been one of tribal factionalism. There have been numerous efforts at "unifying them" Nothing has worked so far. How can Mullah Omar suddenly reunify all of them without money and support from some powerful agent? That powerful agent has always been the Pakistan army supported by the USA
IMO the author was focusing on a narrow scope of proving information that there is a consolidation drive lead by Puki Army seemingly as a response to our strategic agreement and that consolidation of jihad factory will mean very bad for India.
However, obviously a more broader and detailed analysis will be most welcome. My little gripe with the article is in total absence of any recommendations from Indian’s perspective to negate or alleviate the negative implications of the said unification.

Here is my view

•Recognizing that Puki army’s drive to consolidate the jihadi factory is primarily in relation to gaining power back in Afghanistan, do a Najibullah on Karzai, and setting the clock back to to 1996
•This carrot of handing over power to Taliban is the leverage that Puki army has over jihadi factory to get them towards consolidation; in short it is a win-win for jihadis and Puki Army
•Obviously, the subsequent move of Puki army after the restoration of strategic depth in Afghanistan is to turn focus eastwards and bring pressure on to India and more specifically J&K
•India’s engagement with Afghanistan and strategic agreement going forward will hopefully provide leverage to prevent Taliban takeover
•As a response to the above or even to stop further arming of Afghanistan, Puki army CAN/WILL sanction series of attacks in India in coordination with fifth-column media that would bring massive pressure on Indian government to disengage from Afghanistan.
•This is just plain boring deja-vu with nary a hint that we have learnt lessons from past and are ensuring that those bad times do not come back

So, the implications of unification of jihadi factory are pretty clear to us. But what is not clear is what we are going to do to prevent it:

•If we assume today that jihadi factory is fragmented, then what is driving that fragmentation? Are those factors strong enough to resist the common cause of potential power sharing in Afghanistan under Taliban dispensation?
•How can we create opportunity of engaging with some elements of Taliban and yet maintain the supremacy of the current government in Afghanistan?
•If US exit from Afghanistan is driving the Puki Army’s consolidation of Jihadi factory, how can we engage with US and others to ensure the clock is not reverted back to 1996;
•US has direct interest in preventing it also lest another 911 perpetrated by AlQ/Taliban/Puki Army
• We further take US exit from Afghanistan is driven by Obama’s election mandate, is this necessary and sufficient reasoning for existing Afghanistan given the state that it is in?
•How can be best manage the media if events as suggested by author come to pass and continue to maintain pressure on Pukistan from both sides?
•Given the intra institutional feud going on in Pukistan, is Paki Army capable of pulling this off? If not what could be potential move of Puki army?
•How are the other insurgencies going on in Pukistan help/not help Puki army’s Afghan policy?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Satya_anveshi »

For all the intents and actions of Paki Army against US/NATO and India, in terms of direct and indirect confrontation, IMO, it enjoys amazing level of strategic luxury and comfort from these adversaries. By increasing cost of occupation by making logistics expensive and thereby foreclosing US exit options, by goat-napping key Taliban leaders and preventing any afghan settlement, and after all fighting in NWFP against Taliban and still being in position to drive unification, Paki army has to be enjoying quite a comfort. Yet, its actions are to screw these players, India in particular. It assumes India will not provoke paki military engagement, it assumes India will think carefully to its provocation (chance of response is hardly 50% at best and 0% based on historical data), it more or less assumes India will only defend east and it can easily deal with it tomorrow once they secure the west, it knows it can get the power in Pakistan anytime and no one can do jack….is there any pressure on paki army at all? How and why does it enjoy this much comfort?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Satya_anveshi »

No viceroy protocol to Ijaz: Gilani :lol:
Lahore—Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani said Sunday that the government will not give Mansoor Ijaz a protocol given to a US President.

Gilani said that it seemed as if a viceroy was coming to Pakistan instead of Mansoor Ijaz.
{ :roll: WTF - is US President a Paki Viceroy? I mean, we know it but saying this publicly by PM?}
"Under the Constitution and under the system, it is the duty of the Ministry of Interior to provide him (Ijaz) with security,” the Prime Minister stated.
There you go...is kiyani doing anything unconstitutional again?

also: Haqqani’s wife ‘fled Pakistan out of ISI fear’
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pankajs »

shiv wrote:The USA's grip on Pakistan is totally centered on Pakistan's hatred for India. If Pakis did not hate/fear India the US would have no grip on Pakistan. The violence and killing requirements of Pakistani hatred were outsourced to Islamic jihadis so the army brass would not have to get killed. The same was done when the US required it (Added: against the ruskies in Afganistan).
I absolutely agree with this. That India was the unfortunate victim of such policy was of no consequences to US. 9/11 brought the so far 'distant' events to the American shores.
shiv wrote:The jihadis are now trying to gain power in Pakistan and the Pakis who unleashed them are now having second thoughts about whether the price they are paying is too high to continue to use them to fight an unwinnable war with India.
I will differ on this with your saar. The pukis are desperate to get the Americans out of Afganistan so that their buddies the talibs can get back to their interrupted program and the pukis could get back to theirs wrt India (The thousand cuts theory). Is that not the reason for the recent downward swing in the US-Puki relationship? The only thing that is troubling them is to have the cake and eat it too. They wanted to retain the jihadis and cultivate their relationship with the US against India.
shiv wrote:It is the US that is now asking them to fight the jihadis and Pakis don't want to do that - they want to start detente with India. Detente with India isolates the US and the jihadis because Pakistan is now not fighting India or the jihadis.
I agree with the highlighted text. The pukis are caught between the 'amreeki danda' and the 'jihadi funda'. They offer of friendship is a tactical move so as not to open another front in these troubling time for the PA. This 'aman ka tamasha' from the pukis will continue till the Americans leave and the talibs are settled in Afganistan. After that back to square one.
shiv wrote:The Jihadis need Pakistan support to fight India and the USA. The USA needed Pakistani support to fight jihadis. If you remove the majority of Pakis from the fight - the USA is basically powerless.
I agree on the highlighted text.
shiv wrote:The only question is what percentage of Pakistanis are jihadi and what percentage are so worried about jihadis that they will try and hold India's hand. For the US this is a "Catch 22" situation. If "Pakistan" sinks only jihadis will be left and these jihadis are fighting the US as much as India. The US was aiding those jihadis to fight India (indirectly via Pakistan) and the same jihadis ended up fighting the US.
Agree. The other fork in the road is the decision on Afganistan. It also leads to the same situation for the US as is knows from the pre 9/11 days.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Dipanker »

CRamS wrote:
Indeed, but where you and differ is that US is not going to become irrelevant in the next 200 years at least.

What forecasting model are you using which lets you forecast as far as 200 years in future?

Say back in 1999, If you had asked all the Americans forecasters put together that in 2 years twin towers would be no more, America would be fighting two major wars in the next 10 years, and blowing up trillions of $$'s taxpayers money seriously jeopardizing American economy, how many of them you think would have told you so?
Last edited by Dipanker on 23 Jan 2012 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by kmkraoind »

Zardari's media advisor flees Pakistan, says she fears abduction by ISI - TOI
ISLAMABAD: Farahnaz Ispahani, Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's media adviser and wife of former envoy to US Husain Haqqani, claims that she has fled the country as she feared being kidnapped by the ISI.

Ispahani, who has fled to Washington, said she was afraid that she would be abducted to force her husband to confess and implicate Zardari in the memogate issue, Geo News reported from London.
The new meaning of AoA, its not #1, not Arabia-o-Akbar, but America-o-Akbar.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Dipanker »

CRamS wrote:
You are the one being repetitive with these #s you keep quoting. How many times do I tell you that yes, US foreign policy is based on Lahori logic. Otherwise, we would not be seeing Iran hounded for nukes while the biggest terrorist entity there is, TSP, is allowed to keeps its arsenal and even justified because of big baaad India.

Post 9/11, the fury was so intense that football players, news anchors, feminists, homosexuals, not to mention Pentagon, CIA, the entire US launched into this crusade to "get the bad guys". Slowly but steadily, reality sinks in, and after killing Al Queda #2, 3, ... many times over, and finally getting Al Queda #1, the "getting the bad guys" was difficult to justify or pin down, and the thrill of the good guys Vs the bad guys lost its luster. Just witness the current US republican primary election campaign, its no longer get the bad guys, Obama has done that, rather its Obama apologizing for US. One has to invent differences even if there are none :-).

So currently pragmatism has set in among US policy makers, and the realization has dawned that with the mighty Al Queda gone, how best to secure US interests, declare victory, and head back to the land of milk and honey. Cutting a deal with Talibunnies and their TSPA masters is not such a bad idea from US PoV.

You are contradicting yourself in space of 2 paragraphs, first you say (repeatedly according to to your own admission) that America uses Lahori logic, then in the last para you say America is using pragmatism.

Which one it is? Lahori logic or pragmatism? Surely it can't be both at the same time.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Yogi_G »

kmkraoind wrote:Zardari's media advisor flees Pakistan, says she fears abduction by ISI - TOI
ISLAMABAD: Farahnaz Ispahani, Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's media adviser and wife of former envoy to US Husain Haqqani, claims that she has fled the country as she feared being kidnapped by the ISI.

Ispahani, who has fled to Washington, said she was afraid that she would be abducted to force her husband to confess and implicate Zardari in the memogate issue, Geo News reported from London.
The new meaning of AoA, its not #1, not Arabia-o-Akbar, but America-o-Akbar.
Farahanaz Ispahani, Parsi?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by rajanb »

Ijaz refuses to travel to Porkistun :rotfl: protecting his bacon

And Drona attacks. Yet again. :((
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by dada »

how pakis plan to deal with the talibanis who murdered their soldiers ( from a p** forum)
1.targeted assassinations of their leaders
2. mass exterminations of their foot soldiers
3. combat their poison through religious education
4. opportunities for the youth/poor families.

....... perhaps the same is applicable to them too (especially the first two points)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by symontk »

Dipanker wrote:
You are contradicting yourself in space of 2 paragraphs, first you say (repeatedly according to to your own admission) that America uses Lahori logic, then in the last para you say America is using pragmatism.

Which one it is? Lahori logic or pragmatism? Surely it can't be both at the same time.
It is actually both

50 years back people used to say that being an enemy of US is danger and being a friend of US is dangerous

Now its the turn of Pakistan, being a enemy of Pakistan is danger only but being a ally of Pakistan is dangerous
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

It is ironic that Adm Mullen chose to describe Islamic terror groups as "virtual proxies" of the ISI and Pakistani army.

But how come no one has pointed out that the Pakistani army itself worked as a virtual proxy for US foreign policy during the cold war and after 9-11?

It is only because the Pakistan army did not want direct involvement that they used proxies. But that is exactly the erason why the US employed Pakistan. The US is now telling Pakistan to turn on its proxy. Naturally, the US's own proxy, the Pakistan army is telling the US to bugger off. And the US responds to that with "OK. No money. No arms".

This is the best possible news for India, this "divorce" between proxytute and her best customer. May the break become complete. The US of course is having a major "Duh! What th..?" moment as they yearn for the good old days when all they did was pay and arm the Paki army, and that army would "somehow" do the US's job even as they did whatever else they wanted and not implicate the US in any way, other than asking for money and arms. Which the US provided gladly while telling everyone that this was contributing to freedom and democracy. :lol:

But the horse has bolted now. Too late to close the barn doors. All the Presidents dollahs and all The President's men wont put the alliance together again.

I mean yeah great let me see the US getting out of Afghanistan and Pakistan doing a recap of the bad bad 1990s . That should be interesting.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Aditya_V »

Yogi_G wrote:quote="kmkraoind"]Zardari's media advisor flees Pakistan, says she fears abduction by ISI - TOI
ISLAMABAD: Farahnaz Ispahani, Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's media adviser and wife of former envoy to US Husain Haqqani, claims that she has fled the country as she feared being kidnapped by the ISI.

Ispahani, who has fled to Washington, said she was afraid that she would be abducted to force her husband to confess and implicate Zardari in the memogate issue, Geo News reported from London./quote]

The new meaning of AoA, its not #1, not Arabia-o-Akbar, but America-o-Akbar.
Farahanaz Ispahani, Parsi?
Nope, I think she is former producer of CNN, MSNBC and and grand daughter of Paki Amb to US. Funny how many Paki Rapes are connected to international media orgs.

No wonder western media was/is so anti-indian.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Cosmo_R »

shiv wrote:It is ironic that Adm Mullen chose to describe Islamic terror groups as "virtual proxies" of the ISI and Pakistani army.

But how come no one has pointed out that the Pakistani army itself worked as a virtual proxy for US foreign policy during the cold war and after 9-11?

.......

This is the best possible news for India, this "divorce" between proxytute and her best customer. May the break become complete. The US of course is having a major "Duh! What th..?" moment as they yearn for the good old days when all they did was pay and arm the Paki army, and that army would "somehow" do the US's job even as they did whatever else they wanted and not implicate the US in any way, other than asking for money and arms. Which the US provided gladly while telling everyone that this was contributing to freedom and democracy. :lol:
"proxytute" . Love it and wish I'd invented that one :) Kinda tingles the uvula
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Pranav »

Pakistan: Suspected U.S. Drone Strike Kills 4 - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 96,00.html

3rd strike since resumption.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Dipanker »

symontk wrote:
It is actually both

50 years back people used to say that being an enemy of US is danger and being a friend of US is dangerous

Now its the turn of Pakistan, being a enemy of Pakistan is danger only but being a ally of Pakistan is dangerous
That is the famous Kissinger's quote that you are referring to, he said that about 40 years ago.
The term "Pragmatic Lahori logic" is an oxymoron, as "Lahori logic" and Pragmatism are dimetrically opposite of each other.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

Aditya_V wrote: Nope, I think she is former producer of CNN, MSNBC and and grand daughter of Paki Amb to US. Funny how many Paki Rapes are connected to international media orgs.

No wonder western media was/is so anti-indian.
This fits in with my observation that Indian education is science oriented. The best part about being "science oriented" is that it is secular and uncontroversial for most part and can be used to produce worker ants to build the nation.

Pakistan OTOH actively had a huge "Social Studies" segment in its schools that was called "Pakistan studies" and taught distorted history, Islamic supremacy, military theory and other humanities subjects. RAPE children were then sent off to the "best" phoren universities in paid seats to study humanities. Just check the departments in which RAPEs work - you will rarely find then doing Physics or Mech Engg.

Add to this a social blitz by Pakis where paki males freely marry and divorce women in the west and beget little half-Pakis. Unfortunately all women in the west cannot be as wise as the girl in Amsterdam who had an affair with a Paki and got a child. The Paki was back teaching in a terrorist camp by the time the child was born, but the next time he went he searched for the girl and found his child in her arms. He told her "You should have told me! I would have married you!"

But she said "Well, my family and I discussed this at length and decided that it would be better to have a ba$tard than a Paki for a son"

And then there was this blonde called Starkie
who had an affair with a martial Paki
The result of her sins,
was triplets, not twins
one black one white and one khaki
Last edited by shiv on 23 Jan 2012 20:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Brad Goodman »

Pakistani Police and free meals
The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s police, which is mandated to safeguard the citizens’ rights, feels proud in usurping them by itself. The biggest and the most gruesome example of the police coercion is the free meals that our security men enjoy from any
restaurant them desire. What the hell this is!

In order to the quench the hunger of their hellish bellies, our police personnel dine in free of cost from a roadside vendor to a five-star restaurant in most cases. The eateries are forced to ‘entertain’ the policemen as they want to save themselves from
prosecutions and punishments of undone crimes. This is the extreme of corruption which often goes unnoticed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by member_22286 »

shiv wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: Nope, I think she is former producer of CNN, MSNBC and and grand daughter of Paki Amb to US. Funny how many Paki Rapes are connected to international media orgs.

No wonder western media was/is so anti-indian.
This fits in with my observation that Indian education is science oriented. The best part about being "science oriented" is that it is secular and uncontroversial for most part and can be used to produce worker ants to build the nation.

Pakistan OTOH actively had a huge "Social Studies" segment in its schools that was called "Pakistan studies" and taught distorted history, Islamic supremacy, military theory and other humanities subjects. RAPE children were then sent off to the "best" phoren universities in paid seats to study humanities. Just check the departments in which RAPEs work - you will rarely find then doing Physics or Mech Engg.

Add to this a social blitz by Pakis where paki males freely marry and divorce women in the west and beget little half-Pakis. Unfortunately all women in the west cannot be as wise as the girl in Amsterdam who had an affair with a Paki and got a child. The Paki was back teaching in a terrorist camp by the time the child was born, but the next time he went he searched for the girl and found his child in her arms. He told her "You should have told me! I would have married you!"

But she said "Well, my family and I discussed this at length and decided that it would be better to have a ba$tard than a Paki for a son"

And then there was this blonde called Starkie
who had an affair with a martial Paki
The result of her sins,
were triplets, not twins
one black one white and one khaki
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Epic absolutely epic.Add to that Paki bravado most of the pakis I saw in London were show-offs show a pound as a million pounds in attire and talk where as most indians never talk about their finances openly and I bet are very very rich when compared to these Pakis
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by arun »

^^^ If you look at the list of “Britains 20 Richest Asian Millionaires” for 2011 which is extracted from the Sunday Times Rich List, there is just one Pakistani origin individual who comes in at number 10. All the other 19 are of Indian origin:

Britain’s Rich List
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by rajanb »

@Shiv Brilliant!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by rajanb »

From an email from FP Magazine
The best of the worst

Two female Pakistani writers, Ayesha Jalal and Fatima Bhutto, attended the Jaipur Literary Festival this weekend, where American talk show host Oprah Winfrey also made an appearance (Dawn).Jalal received hearty laughter from the audience when she told them that India had now moved to the number three spot on Pakistan's list of enemies; the United States is currently number one, and Israel, of course, is number two.
:mrgreen: :rotfl: :((
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Lalmohan »

arun wrote:^^^ If you look at the list of “Britains 20 Richest Asian Millionaires” for 2011 which is extracted from the Sunday Times Rich List, there is just one Pakistani origin individual who comes in at number 10. All the other 19 are of Indian origin:

Britain’s Rich List
and in the words of sir anwar pervez
Sir Anwar Pervez, 67, Britain's richest Muslim


Asians are more likely to be unemployed than white people, and Muslims tend to do worst of all in the jobs market. The lists of wealthy Asian businessmen are similarly dominated by non-Muslim names. But there are some spectacular success stories of Muslim entrepreneurship. One is Anwar Pervez, a farmer's son from Pakistan who came to Britain at 21 and became a bus conductor in Bradford before opening a corner shop in London in 1962.

He launched Bestway Holdings, a cash-and-carry firm in 1976. The company is now worth £227m. His wealth is estimated at £175m, up from £150m last year. According to the Sunday Times Rich List, Sir Anwar and his family "would be even richer if they did not give large sums to charity" - but giving to charity is a central tenet of Islam.

Q: How important is Islam to your identity?

A: Islam is a part of my life but it is not something that defines me as a person. I see religion as very much a personal matter that is the business of the individual. Whether it's people I know or new people I meet, I see them as a person first, not by their religion. I would also hope people view me in this way. [
Q: What are the major challenges facing British Muslims?

A: They are similar to those faced by religious minorities all over the world, such as good housing, education and job opportunities. Another important challenge is not to become labelled by their religion alone. Of course their religion is very important to many Muslims, as it is other for many non-Muslims. I believe that integration, understanding and respect for all religions is key - for all parts of society, Muslim and non-Muslim alike. Isolation only breeds misunderstandings and intolerance.

Q: How would you improve relations between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities?

A: Communication. When I first arrived in the 50s, I felt accepted totally; sadly, much has changed since then. I think it's important that Muslims - people of all religions - keep their faith, but an open mind, integration, tolerance and acceptance is key
Al Guardian
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by g.sarkar »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/23/world ... ml?_r=1&hp#
Pakistan Court Widens Role, Stirring Fears for Stability
By DECLAN WALSH
Published: January 22, 2012
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Once they were heroes, cloaked justices at the vanguard of a powerful revolt against military rule in Pakistan, buoyed by pugnacious lawyers and an adoring public. But now Pakistan’s Supreme Court is waging a campaign of judicial activism that has pitted it against an elected civilian government, in a legal fight that many Pakistanis fear could damage their fragile democracy and open the door to a fresh military intervention.
From an imposing, marble-clad court on a hill over Islamabad, and led by an iron-willed chief justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, the judges have since 2009 issued numerous rulings that have propelled them into areas traditionally dominated by government here. The court has dictated the price of sugar and fuel, championed the rights of transsexuals, and, quite literally, directed the traffic in the coastal megalopolis of Karachi.
But in recent weeks the court has taken interventionism to a new level, inserting itself as the third player in a bruising confrontation between military and civilian leaders at a time when Pakistan — and the United States — urgently needs stability in Islamabad to face a dizzying array of threats.
Judges say their expanded mandate comes from the people, dating back to the struggle against the military rule of Gen. Pervez Musharraf that began in 2007, eventually helping to pry him from power. Memories linger of those heady days, when bloodied lawyers clashed with riot police officers, and judges were garlanded and paraded as virtual saints.
In recent months, however, the Supreme Court has ventured deep into political peril in two different cases. Last week, as part of a high-stakes corruption case, it summoned Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani to testify in court under threat of contempt charges that, if carried to conviction, could leave him jailed and ejected from office.
The court has also begun an inquiry into a scandal known here as Memogate, a shadowy affair with touches of soap-opera drama that has engulfed the political system since November. It has claimed the job of Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States and now threatens other senior figures in the civilian government, under accusations that officials sought American help to head off a potential military coup.
Propelled by accounts of secret letters, text messages and military plots, the scandal has in recent days focused on a music video featuring bikini-clad female wrestlers that is likely to be entered as evidence of immorality on the part of the central protagonist, Mansoor Ijaz, an American businessman of Pakistani origin.
Hearings resume Tuesday when Mr. Ijaz is due to give evidence. The fact that the courts have become the arena for such lurid political theater has reignited criticism, some from once-staunch allies, that the Supreme Court is worryingly overstepping its mark......."
Gautam
Rony
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Rony »

shiv wrote:This fits in with my observation that Indian education is science oriented. The best part about being "science oriented" is that it is secular and uncontroversial for most part and can be used to produce worker ants to build the nation.

Pakistan OTOH actively had a huge "Social Studies" segment in its schools that was called "Pakistan studies" and taught distorted history, Islamic supremacy, military theory and other humanities subjects. RAPE children were then sent off to the "best" phoren universities in paid seats to study humanities. Just check the departments in which RAPEs work - you will rarely find then doing Physics or Mech Engg.
Shiv garu,

How do you explain this anamoly from Ayesha Jalal

Pakistan needs to breed more historians: Ayesha Jalal
One of Pakistan's most acclaimed historians, Ayesha Jalal bemoans the fact that history as an academic discipline has failed to grow in her country, a deficiency that needs to be addressed to spawn a new breed of scholars in the subject.

A professor of History at the Tufts University with as many as seven books to her credit, the Pakistani-American who is an authority on South Asia has chosen to return to Pakistan as a visiting scholar to help address the gap in her own way.

In India to attend the Jaipur Literature Festival, Jalal told PTI during an interaction why she felt that the academic growth of history in India had contributed to the development of a worthy scholarship in this country.

"Of course, there are biases and political agendas too, but India has continued to teach history, as a result of which you have historical scholarship coming from India," she said.

"I was bemoaning the fact that in Pakistan history has suffered as an academic discipline, and is not taught as is the way in India," she said.


Jalal's books include 'The Sole Spokesman' and 'Democracy and Authoritarianism in South Asia' ?" works that have tried to trace the history of the subcontinent including the origins and the tortured legacy of the partition.

She has also co-authored Modern South Asia: History, Culture and Political Economy with her husband Sugata Bose, a book that is considered perhaps the first joint exercise by an Indian and a Pakistani in dissecting the history of modern South Asia.

A grand niece of eminent Urdu writer Saadat Hasan Manto, Jalal returns to Pakistan from her base in the United States as a visiting professor at the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS).

"In my own modest way, I am trying to address this issue by teaching history in Pakistan," she said.

The author, whose last book 'Partisans of Allah: Jihad in South Asia' traced the discourse on jihad in South Asia over centuries, strongly believes that the Taliban has lost support among the people and that Pakistan is a country that is politically more resilient than many would believe.

"The Arab Spring has reinforced the fact that the people are prepared to take up structures of state. In Pakistan, despite military regimes, no ruler has survived more than 11 years, forget about 30 or 40 years. I think Pakistan is politically more resilient than many people believe, all it needs is a chance," she said.

However, she believes the issues ?"- of pervading injustice and inequity -- that have contributed to al qaeda'a rise will have to be addressed to put an end to violence.

The emergence of Imran Khan on Pakistan's political horizon has made many people take note of the former cricketer's potential, and Jalal feels it has a lot to do with the prevailing disenchantment and yearning for a change.

"There is a lot of disenchantment in Pakistan, there is anti-incumbency what Indians know very well. Imran Khan's popularity has much to do with it. People are looking up to him for a change," she says.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Shaashtanga »

Pakistan's ISI is a Terrorist Organization - Mansoor Ijaz.mp4

ramana
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by ramana »

US DOJ should look into if Masoor Ijaz is a registered Pak agent. He is definitely lobbying for TSP. nothing wrong if he is a registered individual.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by g.sarkar »

You can breed cats and dogs. You can cross breed cattle. But breed more historians?
Gautam
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Baikul »

Lalmohan wrote:.........

and in the words of sir anwar pervez
Sir Anwar Pervez, 67, Britain's richest Muslim

........
Q: How would you improve relations between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities?

A: Communication. When I first arrived in the 50s, I felt accepted totally; sadly, much has changed since then. I think it's important that Muslims - people of all religions - keep their faith, but an open mind, integration, tolerance and acceptance is key
Al Guardian
While tolerance and acceptance is indeed essential in societies, IMO, it is amazing how we find little evidence of this yearning for tolerance and acceptance when the boot is on the other foot.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

shiv wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: And then there was this blonde called Starkie
who had an affair with a martial Paki
The result of her sins,
was triplets, not twins
one black one white and one khaki
:lol:

Chal Chal Chal mere Paki,Gubo Saathi ,Chal Aa Jaa Musharraf poonch ke
Challe aaaa, Naa kar inkaar, Excited Massa isi Bekrraar.

I have a new acronym for Poaq. SARP= Sandy Arabian Ritual Practices.
Head of Poaqtoon =SARPoaq.
Last edited by Prem on 24 Jan 2012 05:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pankajs »

Image

TSPA's chaddi last seen fluttering in the breeze hanging out on a shrub after the "Mohmand Incident". It was ripped off forcefully by the Americans on November 26 last year, exposing TSPA's strategic assets. This dastardly act will not be forgotten for a very long time and will be revenged.

Pakistan Army rejects US report on NATO attack
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by svinayak »

Rony wrote:
How do you explain this anamoly from Ayesha Jalal

Pakistan needs to breed more historians: Ayesha Jalal
Countries with manufactured history have to do this. They have to keep getting new historians to tell the same lie.
Last edited by svinayak on 23 Jan 2012 23:06, edited 1 time in total.
pankajs
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pankajs »

If Ijaz barred from testifying, it will prove his claims’ veracity: Imran
LAHORE: While rumours abound over Memogate protagonist Mansoor Ijaz’s testimony before the Supreme Court, Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf chief Imran Khan has said that if Ijaz is disallowed from testifying, it will be evidence enough that his allegations are true.
Lahori Logic?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by abhischekcc »

g.sarkar wrote:You can breed cats and dogs. You can cross breed cattle. But breed more historians?
Gautam
:rotfl:

Enuf said!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by svinayak »

Rony wrote:
How do you explain this anamoly from Ayesha Jalal

Pakistan needs to breed more historians: Ayesha Jalal
THis is the time to start telling everybody that Pakistan dont have any history.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pgbhat »

If anything pacquistan has way too many "historians". :)
chetak
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by chetak »

Acharya wrote:
Rony wrote:
How do you explain this anamoly from Ayesha Jalal

Pakistan needs to breed more historians: Ayesha Jalal
THis is the time to start telling everybody that Pakistan dont have any history.

Going by the standards of some Indian "historians", romilla thapar et al, the paki historians can only be bred from pigs.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Vayutuvan »

Dipanker wrote:What forecasting model are you using which lets you forecast as far as 200 years in future?
Diapanker ji

I don't know what he uses - but if history is any guide - the decline and fall of the Roman Empire took more than 500 years and it was relatively less powerful than current day US. Even British Empire in its death throes now is still more powerful (and wealthy) than a lot of nations in the world.

Regards
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 24 Jan 2012 00:57, edited 1 time in total.
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