PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Jan 2012 03:05

Austin wrote:Now its possible with the advent of LCD cockpit and compliant NVG the background colour does not matter much .....so may be the IAF has chosen to go with light grey colour and the RuAF continues to use the same teal colour on all its modern aircraft. check the cockpit of the now inducted YAK-130 same teal colour

I don't think so- otherwise why were HF-24 Marut's cockpit coloured light gray inside ? They were our own aircraft and the IAF was already exposed to the MiG-21 and the teal coloured cockpits. If such a theory was considered acceptable by the IAF, they'd have applied it to all their aircraft..after all it was only paint!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Jan 2012 09:07

Nick_S wrote:
Kartik wrote: Even the Indian Navy's MiG-29K has a pale gray interior
Sir ji, i think that is the Mig-29 SMT cockpit.

yup, you're right there..but the point was that the MiG-29K has a light gray interior and not a teal coloured one.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 25 Jan 2012 09:25

Couple of things about this whole color business:

1) I feel any lightish color that is easy on the eyes would work.
2) The teal color seems to bring out the contrast between the instrumentation and the frame more pointedly. Perhaps that makes a difference to russian flyboys.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 25 Jan 2012 09:44

Colors aside, I am impressed by the design of the Marut cockpit. Feels so roomy and uncluttered unlike the Mig's and Su's of the day. Now the SDRE's didn't have access to any technology that the Russkie's didn't. So the argument that Russian cockpits had a cluttered and confusing look because of inferior technology compared to western aircraft doesn't work in this case.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Jan 2012 10:46

The Tu-142 and Il-38 have a teal colour cockpit same is the case with Kamovs in IN service.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 26 Jan 2012 01:16

nachiket wrote:Colors aside, I am impressed by the design of the Marut cockpit. Feels so roomy and uncluttered unlike the Mig's and Su's of the day. Now the SDRE's didn't have access to any technology that the Russkie's didn't. So the argument that Russian cockpits had a cluttered and confusing look because of inferior technology compared to western aircraft doesn't work in this case.

agree with that.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jan 2012 03:50

edited: which one is this?
http://aviacaogeral.com/wp-content/uplo ... as-03a.jpg

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jan 2012 03:59

in disbelieve on the finish quality of cockpit here.. the ergo is cool, except few adjustment on the position of joystick that might hinder visibility to display.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 26 Jan 2012 04:39

Are you sure that is the nLCA? The HUD/UFCP don't look anything like what was on older models.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 26 Jan 2012 04:59

tejas wrote:Are you sure that is the nLCA? The HUD/UFCP don't look anything like what was on older models.

http://aviacaogeral.com/2011/06/tejas-n ... -em-julho/

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jan 2012 06:34

dunno,.. but I would be damned if it is bundar!

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 26 Jan 2012 06:36

^^^^ Thanks. That's from a Brazil based site. I think the author is mistaken The MFDs look way too big and the smart stand by displays are gone.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 26 Jan 2012 06:41

Looks like a modified version of this. I think it's Chini/Puki Thundaaaar. And I hate to admit looks much more aesthetically pleasing than LCA cocpit with its dinky MFds, bulky UFPC and antiquated HUD

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jan 2012 06:53

huh! it does not deserve a big image then.. I am editing my original post.

--
added later:

now, it is parasun..
http://**************/2009/1 ... -down.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jan 2012 11:45

I support the rafale style of mounting the central MFD higher up just below the HUD - thats the venue for both ground map moving and probably A2A/A2G attack mode as well...makes sense to place it where the pilot can minimize his look downs.

I dunno why the "switch panels" beneath the HUD in Tejas is given so much prominence and importance...its not as if they unlock and fire the DeathStar weapon in the general direction of the enemy.

the Rafale cockpit seems to have 75% LESS switches than Tejas..yet it flies and flies well. look at it there's almost nothing
http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachme ... 1309021329

tejas cockpit.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p_wkBUXCRHE/T ... 8%2529.jpg

imo in Mk2 Tejas they should
- minimize or get rid of that protuding panel below the HUD
- get a frameless EF style much bigger HUD in
make the side MFDs larger and engulf whatever the triangular panels both sides of the HUD are doing presently
- generally declutter the busy look of the cockpit...it has a lot of knobs and switches for sure...like any 4th gen fighter

EF also hsa a fairly old style cockpit. given the Rafale is 10 yrs behind the JSF in time, the french designers did a superb job imo in predicting where the future was - giant MFDs and touchscreens and backing it as a big bet. perhaps having sextant avionique as a national resource helps them predict better...perhaps they are just Mahdi's followers in keeping things simple and clean

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 26 Jan 2012 12:02

^^^ That is not LCA but Mig29 cockpit

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 26 Jan 2012 12:13

tejas wrote:Looks like a modified version of this. I think it's Chini/Puki Thundaaaar. And I hate to admit looks much more aesthetically pleasing than LCA cocpit with its dinky MFds, bulky UFPC and antiquated HUD

http://www.defence.pk/gallery/data/649/ ... 007001.jpg

That's a Pilatus PC-21 cockpit. Bundar's twin seater version is not yet ready AFAIK.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jan 2012 12:23

and I wonder how pilots are supposed to deal with 20 white buttons around each MFD when he is busy

I stand corrected by Gurneesh about the Tejas cockpit. if the pic below is the real thing, it looks ok so long as they minimize or get rid of the huge "CRT oscilloscope" thing protuding below the HUD and change the HUD to a wide FOV frameless kit..
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-i8xqIQuUWII/T ... 4%2529.jpg

changing the canopy to a F22 style bubble canopy would be a good move too. I heard it a complex piece of engg to make such canopies in single piece - we can seek such bideshi tech via the MRCA offsets and offsets on american deals like M777.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 26 Jan 2012 12:57

Parowski wrote:Nik Hi, Are these Samtel MFDs, They look lil big as used to see in SU30MKI. The config looks awesome..

Sorry, I dont know the make of those but yeah, it looks good.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 27 Jan 2012 02:41

Sriman boss, you are right on the money.

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 27 Jan 2012 04:47

Singha wrote:and I wonder how pilots are supposed to deal with 20 white buttons around each MFD when he is busy

I stand corrected by Gurneesh about the Tejas cockpit. if the pic below is the real thing, it looks ok so long as they minimize or get rid of the huge "CRT oscilloscope" thing protuding below the HUD and change the HUD to a wide FOV frameless kit..
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-i8xqIQuUWII/T ... 4%2529.jpg

changing the canopy to a F22 style bubble canopy would be a good move too. I heard it a complex piece of engg to make such canopies in single piece - we can seek such bideshi tech via the MRCA offsets and offsets on american deals like M777.

IMHO that is not a CRT but a monochorme LCD. Something similar to this:

This shows the cockpit lit up which seems to support that.

Will · Post by **Will** » 27 Jan 2012 09:52

High time ADA/HAL designed an AJT around the Kaveri. With experience from the LCA dont think this should be such a difficult task. Plus it would be great to see the Kaveri put to use in actual operations. Would be a major boost.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Jan 2012 11:22

The "will" must come from ADA-HAL. good wishes though.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Jan 2012 10:19

Sukhoi T-50 / PAK FA - official patent analysis

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 01 Feb 2012 08:11

Russia to Field Air-Launched Missiles for Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA by 2014
..
"The development of Kh-35UE (AS-20 Kayak), Kh-38ME, Kh-58UShKE (AS-11 Kilter), and RVV-MD (AA-11 Archer) class missiles will be completed in 2012-2013," Obnosov said, adding the missiles were currently being tested.

Some of the missiles intended for the fighters -- such as Kh-31PD (AS-17 Mod 2) class missiles -- have already been tested using Sukhoi Su-34 (Fullback) fourth-generation strike aircraft and put into serial production, he added.

The Kh-35UE tactical anti-ship missile has a maximum range of 260 kilometers; the supersonic Kh-31PD anti-radiation missile for use against air defense systems, can fly up to 250 kilometers; the Kh-58UShKE missile, designed to destroy pulse radars, can hit targets within 245 kilometers, and the short-range RVV-MD air-to-air missile has a maximum range of 40 kilometers.
..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2012 08:26

> the supersonic Kh-31PD anti-radiation missile for use against air defense systems, can fly up to 250 kilometers; the Kh-58UShKE missile, designed to destroy pulse radars, can hit targets within 245 kilometers

sounds like good stuff for our MKIs. existing stock of KH31P can be handed own to the Mig29upgs to hit more tactical radar targets like the SP SRSAM/SPAAG units the chinese have on tracked and trucks.
http://ericpalmer.files.wordpress.com/2 ... ag-2s1.jpg
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-Div- ... ocId173500

take a look at the LD-2000 - sounds like something that could produce in volume

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Feb 2012 09:21

Sweet! It's high time our considerable Russian missile inventory got an update. The Kh-31PD and Kh-58 sound especially useful keeping chipanda S-300s in mind. The RVV-AE replacement is also essential. I guess if we decide to buy these, their integration with the MKI would have to be part of the Super-30 upgrade.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 01 Feb 2012 20:01

SriSri wrote:Russia to Field Air-Launched Missiles for Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA by 2014

News say that

By the time the T-50 fighter enters service with the Russian Air Force in 2014, its missile systems will be fully operational, Obnosov said.

is it a reporting error...or they are ready to pull the plug.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2012 21:34

with suitable avionic and mission computer sw update I see no reason why even the existing MKIs cannot fire these new weapons esp the A2G strike missiles.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Feb 2012 03:49

http://english.pravda.ru/business/compa ... eration-0/

Igor Korotchenko, the director of the Center for the Analysis of World Arms Trade, believes that Russia's T-50 project does not need the financial support from South Korea.

"Russia is expecting a large contract with India. India has already contracted 250 T-50 fighters. Therefore, the technical loss of those hypothetical $7.3 billon is not critical for the Russian project. We've already participated in South Korean tender before. As experience showed, the country prefers to purchase from the Americans," the expert stated.

Indeed, it appears that South Korea has already chosen its customer - the USA that is. South Korean MBN TV channel reported that Seoul had paid $1 million for the documentation on one of the competing airplanes - F-35. The payment was made prior to the tender. This information may mean that the political decision to purchase the fighter jets from the United States has already been made. Defense experts realize, though, that Eurofighter Typhoon could also be a serious competition.

Russia took part in the tender for the fighter jet for the Air Force of South Korea in 2002. Russia's Su-35 lost the tender to F-15 of the USA. It is worthy of note that Seoul has purchased military hardware from Russia before. The South Korean army has T-80 tanks and BMP-3 armored vehicles.

US, European and Russian companies previously participated in the Indian tender for the delivery of a multi-purpose fighter jet within the scope of the MMRCA program. Russia took part with its MiG-35 fighter, although it did not win the tender.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 11 Feb 2012 09:38

Three T-50 prototypes have performed 120 flights

Three T-50 (PAK FA) prototypes have performed more than 120 flights.

The fourth prototype will join the flight testing in 2012.

"We will start the deliveries of pilot batch in 2013." - Pogosyan noted.

The fourth one - Т-50-4, should have joined the flight testing last year.

As expected, the testing of T-50’s airframe will be completed in 2012.

In accordance with the agreement between Sukhoi Company and Russian Ministry of Defense, the airframer should deliver first 10 T-50s to the Lipetsk combat employment and retraining center, where the testing will be continued. At present, the Ministry of Defense plans to acquire 60 T-50s, aside from jets from the pilot batch. The demand for T-50 jets in the Russian air forces is estimated at 150 ones.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Feb 2012 10:08

it appears that the su-30 lookalike ass-wise going to remain for long time to come. all those 360* tvc will be lost anyway if they change it to rapotoriski type reduced emission 2d exhaust.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 11 Feb 2012 13:21

Does anyone know what's changed with the PAK-FA's sting?

Before:

After:

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Feb 2012 14:04

The 2nd picture sting has chutes in anticipation of spin test that was scheduled to begin some time back

Vinay_D · Post by **Vinay_D** » 11 Feb 2012 14:05

SaiK wrote:it appears that the su-30 lookalike ass-wise going to remain for long time to come. all those 360* tvc will be lost anyway if they change it to rapotoriski type reduced emission 2d exhaust.

Came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... iRQ#t=464s

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 11 Feb 2012 15:18

Thanks, Austin!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Feb 2012 18:37

what is planned for the huge sting volume? some kind of ECM kit or a dedicated rear facing scaled down aesa radar?
if the idea is operating alone outside of awacs coverage, the aesa radar idea would gain traction to generate 360' coverage albeit much reduced ranges due to small size of side array and tail radar...

imo could it be used to stash a cartload of fuel?

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 11 Feb 2012 19:51

Any idea on how stealthy FGFA/T-50 will be relative to other stealthy planes in existence.For eg F-35,J-20 etc?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Feb 2012 19:53

that would be only for the pitch thrust vectoring then.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Feb 2012 02:03

Much more than anything else is the '5th generation' engine. Hope this has not been posted earlier, but, it provides a great deal of info (sub titles in English, so stop-n-go to get best feed back). The Item 117/AL-41F1:

[youtube]JVJny6UL6V8&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]

Stop at 1:50 and then again at 2:20ish.

Data point @ 4:43, 5:15 (very interesting)