Indian Interests

[satya]

Shyamdjee

let bygones be bygones .You cannot convince other posters here about events that happened in '99. If they feel GoI is leading India from one disaster to another let it be just ask yourself does it matter what we think ?.


No further comments from my side on this issue .

[Sanku]

Has it done nothing?

Pretty much yes, it has done nothing, just coming to office is not doing something.

Has it not expanded efforts completely with the ANA in afghanistan?

Expanded completely?? Meaning it has done what ever it can do for ANA and nothing remains to be done (definition of complete), now now even the best friends of Man mohan wont say that you know.

It has made some minor feeble efforts, peanuts and hardly anything.

There were plans to place troops in Afghanistan, but our partners didn't agree and we can't just go and walk in without the backing of nations like Iran and Russia - if we had a direct border with it, we could.

So bottom line, nothing was done. More reasons for why not, but in the end only thing we have are excuses.

So instead we are expanding our efforts by training ANA.

As I said marginal piddling effort.

Now you describe lukewarm at best - you do realise that this was 4th Eelam war and in the late 90's and early 2000 India didn't do much.

Of course everyone knows, it was fourth and the support was lukewarm. More reasons for why they didn't do anything, but in the end, it still doesnt change that nothing was done.

Again - yes they were cooperating but the scale of cooperation during 4th Eeelam war was unprecedented - you miss the point completely.

Nothing to miss, there is hardly a point there. You are making a big deal of pretty much business as usual, the uptick if any was driven by SL govt.

Not sure if this is true but was it not George Fernandes who asked the IN to stop patrolling that coast and even allowed the LTTE supply/smuggling to continue? Correct me if I am wrong, but didnt they let a few LTTE supply ships with cadres go?

If not sure, lets not discuss rumors. Fact remains, the Indian effort in SL was a minor uptick of a long standing policy, that too driven more from SL, not something which can be described as a proactive effort for a game changing plan on our own terms.

[Sanku]

Shyamdjee

let bygones be bygones .You cannot convince other posters here about events that happened in '99. If they feel GoI is leading India from one disaster to another let it be just ask yourself does it matter what we think ?.


No further comments from my side on this issue .

Sir some of us remember 89 and 79 too. So let it be.

Facts speak for themselves, and so do lack of facts (actions)

[shyamd]

Expanded completely?? Meaning it has done what ever it can do for ANA and nothing remains to be done (definition of complete), now now even the best friends of Man mohan wont say that you know.

It has made some minor feeble efforts, peanuts and hardly anything.

LOL! Not even worthy of a response.

So bottom line, nothing was done. More reasons for why not, but in the end only thing we have are excuses.

Well, we tried to do it but didn't work out because of the practicalities. You can't impose anything there as we dont share a border.

As I said marginal piddling effort.

Its a lot bigger. Did you read the agreement? Just because they dont lambast everythin that they are diong doesnt mean GoI is just sitting on its hands.

Of course everyone knows, it was fourth and the support was lukewarm. More reasons for why they didn't do anything, but in the end, it still doesnt change that nothing was done.

Well its lukewarm only in your opinion and you haven't disputed the level of support India made which is hardly lukewarm.

Nothing to miss, there is hardly a point there. You are making a big deal of pretty much business as usual, the uptick if any was driven by SL govt.

If not sure, lets not discuss rumors. Fact remains, the Indian effort in SL was a minor uptick of a long standing policy, that too driven more from SL, not something which can be described as a proactive effort for a game changing plan on our own terms.

So lets see:
India sends confusing signals on Sri Lanka extremists

By Praful Bidwai

NEW DELHI - The assassination last week of Neelan Tiruchelvam, one of Sri Lanka's foremost intellectuals who tirelessly fought to end the island's 16-year ethnic conflict, has attracted strong condemnation from around the world.

Many governments have been forthright in naming the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) as the suspected culprit in the suicide-bombing of Tiruchelvam's car: the method is a virtual trade-mark of the group, which has killed dozens of Sri Lankan leaders, as well as former Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi.

Strangely, however, India has sent out ambivalent signals on the issue of the LTTE's involvement, although it stands to lose a great deal from that group's predatory activities, especially in the southern part of the country. Along with other evidence of senior Indian leaders' recent dealings with 'Eelam' (Sri Lankan Tamil homeland), this could have harmful consequences for Sri Lanka's society and politics, and for India-Sri Lanka relations.

On July 30, India's foreign ministry spokesperson expressed ''shock'' at Tiruchelvam's ''brutal killing.'' This was in keeping with New Delhi's opposition to all political murders. But India did not name the LTTE, although it was widely suspected to be involved on the basis of circumstantial evidence.

The LTTE recently warned all Tamil MPs against cooperating with the government. It normally steps up its terrorist attacks during the ''Black July'' week, the anniversary of the July 22-29 pogrom of Tamils in 1983. Last week too, there were reports of infiltration of ''Black Tigers'' (suicide bombers) into Colombo, as well as into Tamil Nadu in India.

Tiruchelvam was perhaps Sri Lanka's best-known scholar and constitutional authority. He drafted far-reaching legal and constitutional measures for decentralization, known as the ''devolution package'', adopted by the ruling People's Alliance. President Chandrika Kumaratunga was scheduled to pilot this through parliament this month. Tiruchelvam's role as an institution-builder (of the International Center for Ethnic Studies, and the Law and Society Trust), and a tireless peace and human rights activist was also noteworthy.

However, the Indian statement reduced him to ''a member of the Sri Lankan Parliament, an eminent lawyer and distinguished leader.'' The official spokesperson on July 30 read out a prepared statement, but immediately clarified that it was issued only ''in response to a question.'' This indicated that New Delhi does not think Tiruchelvam's killing on July 29 an issue worth strong comment on the basis of merit, and conveyed to the Sri Lankan public that India does not wish to take a clear, unambiguous stand on the LTTE.

Sri Lanka's Tamil community keeps a sharp eye on all fine nuances in India's diplomatic and media statements.

Some editorials in the Indian press, too, tended to trivialize Tiruchelvam's importance. For instance, a national daily reduced his significance to that of a mere mediator in the 1987 India-Sri Lanka accord which inaugurated India's disastrous policy of sending a ''peace-keeping'' military force to Sri Lanka, severely eroding Sri Lanka's sovereignty and causing enormous resentment.

As if taking a cue from India, as well as out of fear of the ruthless LTTE, very few Tamils in Sri Lanka have spoken out against the assassination. According to the Indian Express daily (August 3), many Colombo Tamils are reluctant to take a strong stand.

The pro-LTTE media in Sri Lanka has gloated over the relatively low attendance at memorial meetings for Tiruchelvam, says the Express. One pro-LTTE paper described him as ''pro-government,'' while lampooning ''moderate Tamils.'' The Kumaratunga government is the first regime in Colombo to be politically committed to devolution of power to minority communities.

The context for the present stance of the right-wing Indian government, led by the Bharatiya Janata Party, was set by a number of developments which suggest a soft line on the LTTE.

Defense Minister George Fernandes has long been an enthusiastic supporter of the LTTE. In December 1997, before joining government, he organized a highly controversial public convention of pro-LTTE elements in New Delhi, to which the Home Ministry objected. (The LTTE is a banned organization following Rajiv Gandhi's assassination). Fernandes changed the venue to the spacious lawns of his bungalow, hosting delegates from Sri Lanka, Australia, France, and India.

The delegates openly supported the LTTE and resolved to work for unbanning it. ''No matter what the obstacles are, we will hold similar state-level conferences. We are ready to face any consequences,'' Fernandes said at the convention. ''The basic purpose of this convention is to make the people of India aware of Tamil Eelam and make them part of their struggle . . . their cause is just.''

The convention passed a resolution asking the Sri Lankan government to withdraw its army from Tamil areas, stop human rights violations, and recognize that ''the LTTE represents the Tamil people.'' It also asked for the abolition of India's Jain Commission inquiring into Rajiv Gandhi's assassination.

In July 1998, under Fernandes's instructions, the Indian Navy was asked not to intercept ships suspected of carrying illegal arms for Sri Lankan guerrilla groups. Three such ships were let off. Later, it was reported that Indian forces had downgraded their patrolling of the Palk Straits dividing Sri Lanka from India. ''The Tigers are able to get whatever Tamil Nadu [the southern Indian state close to Sri Lanka] can supply. The coastline is very porous,'' the Hindustan Times reported.

On March 11, the Indian Navy allowed gun-runners aboard a vessel to escape and dump their cache at sea. The trawler was reported to be carrying arms for the LTTE.

On December 5, a number of Indian ministers, including Home Minister L.K. Advani and Fernandes, attended a wedding at which were also present LTTE leader V. Prabhakaran's father and Kasi Ananthan, a suspect in the Rajiv Gandhi case. Several pro-LTTE, pro-Eelam speeches were made at the reception.

Fernandes has been actively supporting the LTTE cause financially, through the Fund-raising Committee for Protection of Tamils. He was recently praised by the LTTE press as a more reliable ally of the the LTTE than many Tamil politicians.

All this has stoked suspicions that India's BJP-led coalition has definite sympathies for the LTTE. There are numerous media reports of increased LTTE activities in Tamil Nadu, and of its growing links with Tamil politicians.

In the early 1980s, this ''Madras factor'' got India involved in the Sri Lankan quagmire. India armed, trained and funded Tamil groups, including the LTTE. Later, it turned against them, coercing Sri Lanka into signing the 1987 accord.

Today, there is no official Indian support for Eelam militants. But there are growing fears that the BJP-led government has a strange, secret agenda connected with the LTTE. Its response to Tiruchelvam's killing is bound to strengthen these fears.

Nitin Gokhale

The friendship between Fernandes and the ltte took on a new meaning when he was appointed defence minister. Now, Fernandes could help the Tamil Tigers more meaningfully. In July 1998, he stopped the Indian navy from intercepting ships suspected of carrying illegal arms to Tamil guerrilla groups. Later, he ordered Indian security forces to downgrade patrolling of the Palk Strait. With Fernandes having quit the ministry, army officials in the northeast hope that the arms-drugs route through the Andamans will be sealed. "The pressure on those fighting insurgency will be considerably reduced if the arms supply to the various groups is choked," says a source. Will better counsel prevail?

So I guess it wasn't business as usual and India previously at best wanted to remain neutral on the issue. Nothing further to say.


Satya ji, thanks. Sanku ji, that blows your accusation out of the water that I was "for the record misrepresenting their position". For the record, perhaps you should desist on twisting other people's comments. LOL!

I don't think its worth debating after you made such a personal accusation and got it so completely wrong.

[nawabs]

Cross posting from Indian Health Care Sector
India's global pharmacy role threatened by EU pact

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 834386.cms

Efforts by India and the European Union to strengthen trade are threatening India's ability to deliver lifesaving medicines to the world's poorest, analysts say as the two sides push through protracted negotiations on a free-trade pact.

India's prime minister and top EU officials are hoping their summit Friday in New Delhi helps move beyond disagreements over issues like European labor market limits and Indian duties on cars.

But health industry workers and activists worry that India may bow to EU demands for strict intellectual property protections and investor guarantees, which could close down the world's generic drug supply.

India's $26 billion drug industry has become an immense profit engine, growing at 15-25 percent a year _ but also a lifeline for millions of patients in poor countries, many in Africa, unable to pay sky-high Western prices to treat illnesses that include HIV, malaria, asthma and cancer. For HIV alone, India makes more than 80 percent of the world's medicines.

The EU says it has suggested a clause in the free-trade pact ``to ensure that nothing in the proposed agreement would limit India's freedom to produce and export lifesaving medicines.''

Despite the EU assurance, Indian drug makers and health workers say two broad provisions in the agreement _ one on intellectual property rights, and the other on investor lawsuits _ would make it much easier for international pharmaceutical giants to sue the Indian government, drug manufacturers and distributors.

That, they argue, would dramatically curtail Indian production of many lifesaving drugs, or cause prices to rise to levels many cannot afford.

``The EU has changed strategy and has now focused on enforcement,'' trying to create an intellectual property rights regime ``that will intimidate even legitimate generic manufacturers and thereby impact access and availability,'' said Dilip G. Shah, a former Pfizer executive who now heads both the Indian Pharmaceutical Alliance and the industry's Vision Consulting Group.

Activists have unleashed a global campaign to call the EU out on the policies. Analysts and drug makers say they have a point. While India's pharmaceutical companies would likely survive under a regime limiting generics, millions of the world's neediest patients, including within India, may not.

``The industry will be OK. They can produce anything'' including drugs for Western multinationals, pharmaceutical analyst Bino Pathiparampil of IIFL Capital said. They may also gain from easier access to European markets.

``But there would be a serious impact on society, as many of the poor would be cut off from treatments,'' he said.

Since the talks began in 2007, Indian negotiators have refused to hamper the country's generic drug industry by undermining the low-cost production, high-quality professionalism or permissive licensing regime that has helped the industry grow.

But India and the EU both face different pressures today than when they started five years ago. Following a year of economic turmoil, Europe is eager to reach India's young and upwardly mobile market of 1.2 billion people, while India wants to prove its place among the world's economic powerhouses.

Now would also be an ideal time for India's government to show progress on a pact that can distract from a year of embarrassing corruption scandals.

The EU is India's biggest trading partner, accounting last year for $92 billion in bilateral sales. The trade pact, they say, would lift that to an annual $237 billion by 2015.

With the talks held behind closed doors and without participation by health ministers, analysts say there are few voices to prevent the final draft from giving multinational pharmaceuticals enough power to shut generics down.

On Friday, hundreds of people living with HIV protested in New Delhi to press Indian officials to reject any rules that might limit world supplies of anti-retroviral treatments.

``Whether we get to live or die should not be up to trade negotiators,'' Mundrika Gahlot of the Delhi Network of Positive People said in a statement.

Half of the generics India produces are used domestically, as India grapples with its own health care crisis and many impoverished patients are left to pay for care themselves.

The European Union has suggested it could drop two demands that would have affected the generics industry, specifically on patent extensions and on allowing companies to keep scientific data and clinical studies under wraps.

But experts say there are even more worrying provisions in the draft, which has been leaked during the talks and discussed by Indian negotiators with health care workers.

Measures to strengthen intellectual property rights, for example, would require courts to impose injunctions on drug production whenever a complaint is filed, whereas courts today often allow production of lifesaving drugs to continue while cases are pending.

There are also measures for widening lawsuits so patent holders can sue not just pharmaceuticals producing generics, but also those who supply materials as mundane as plastic bottles, nonprofit groups and foreign governments who purchase the drugs, and hypothetically even those who use them _ the patients.

Another measure would let investors sue the Indian government if they feel their investment is being undermined, for example, by a license that allows a generic to be produced.

``Who do these measures serve? Not the European people, not the Indian people, not even the governments,'' said Indian lawyer Anand Grover, who since 2006 has served as a U.N. Special Rapporteur on human rights to health. ``In fact, this is for a very small, profit-taking group of people.'

An example of how important a role Indian generic drug makers play.
http://www.indianexpress.com/Storyold/170268/

Indian generic drug firm Cipla Ltd said it was offering a triple-therapy cocktail of AIDS drugs to the world's poor at a special price of $350 per patient a year, undercutting multinational drugmakers.

Cipla Chairman Yusuf Hamied said the offer had been made to international charity agency Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) on Tuesday, and would cover the drugs stavudine, lamivudine and nevirapine.

The cut-price treatment is aimed primarily at those infected with the HIV virus in Africa, where anti-retroviral drugs commonly used in the West are out of reach financially.

The average cost of AIDS drug cocktails in developed markets is $10,000 to $15,000 a year. Leading drug companies have recently negotiated discount deals with Senegal, Uganda and Rwanda which bring the cost down by up to 90 per cent -- but that still leaves their products at a premium to Cipla's offer.

"We are offering the drugs at a humanitarian price," Hamied said.

"Our normal price -- at which we sell to wholesalers in India -- is $1,200 per patient per year. We also have a price of $600 which we offer governments under tender, and then there is the humanitarian price," he said.

We should not play ball with EU at the cost of our Generic Drug Companies.

[SwamyG]

http://dharmanext.blogspot.in/2012/01/t ... atkar.html
An old 5-yr old issue, making the rounds on the internet.

Most people in India have a positive impression about Medha Patkar. Is she not the secular activist who takes on big business, fights for preserving India’s greenery and defends the poor and downtrodden?

However documents leaked to the press have revealed a very different picture: that of a scheming person, who has no qualms about breaking the law and whose sources of funding are mysterious.

Letter written by Dr. Urmilaben Patel, Email exchanges between Patrick McCully and Medha Patkar MUST READ

Again a big debate encompassing progress, environment, injustice ityadi. It is delicate balance between doing the right things (like fighting for injustice) versus actively collaborating with foreign sources to achieve one's battles.

[Sanku]

LOL! Not even worthy of a response.

I am glad that you have come to realize that when you dont have anything to say, you should not say it.

So bottom line, nothing was done. More reasons for why not, but in the end only thing we have are excuses.

Well, we tried to do it but didn't work out because of the practicalities. You can't impose anything there as we dont share a border.

More whining

You know keep saying that

"Manmohan's masters will ask Manmohan to do something eventually at the right time, he is just waiting because we cant have war you see"

But the fact is, Manmohan's minders dont want him do anything, and of course he is not going to move without clearances from the "party high command"

The proof of the pudding is eating -- and there is no pudding.

Cheers !!

[RamaY]

Sanku-ji

The INC/UPA apologists' strategy is to

- Remove the lines between INC/UPA and GoI so INC is India image is not discontinued
- Claim that GoI (read INC/UPA) has more information in its hands so makes most informed decision w.r.t Indian policy and interests.

But they fall flat whenever something like the below happens and starts hiding behind 'strategic restraint' (without defining what that strategy is) and NDA did that too type rhetoric...

- 1962 type shames
- Terror attacks
- 1948,65,71,98 etc wars
- sustained terror campaigns such as Khalistan, JK, NE, LTTE, Maoists etc.,
- sustained corruption
- sustained undermining of other constitutional bodies such as CBI, CVC, CEC, CAG, IAS, CoAS etc.,

One wonders how could INC/UPA govts falter so many times and so many ways, when they are best informed.

THAT demands 'strategic restraint' from people like us, else we get reported/warned/banned.

[ramana]

To sum up:

"BJP/NDA gets pilloried for virtual crimes and INC/UPA gets scots free for real crimes!"

[Muppalla]

Shyamd ji, I read your west asia and other analysis with lot of interest. However, your assessment of MMS is not right. The analysis should not swing to extremes. It is wrong to say that if what MMS did is not done then war is the only answer. It is not true and thinking in these lines is higest strategy spin. There is always a way to live isolated and not-bothered when we don't want a war. There is no need of all those phappi-jhappis, proposals such as free movements across Kashmir with common currency for Kashmiris etc. There is no need for open lobbying to removing Army from Kashmir.

In simple terms, MMS is playing what US wants in this region. He is not just playing with India interests in mind but facilitating them. MMS is an open and shut case and proven beyond doubts. Any saner independent thinker or the one who thinks India should pursue independence is shunted out. He went along with party line in all domestic stuff but he maintained his way or no way on foreign policy.

Chronology of his thoughts and how he persued till the end that his thoughts prevail:
(1) During PVNR, he clearly said that India should not have even done Pokhran-I. He said India should try not be any power and jus try to be an economic power like Japan.
(2) He opposed P-II during ABV regime
(3) The forces manipulated to ensure him to be PM and probably PM as long as he is alive
(4) His single point persuit of Nuke deal at any cost. Though the Indian nationalists like Kakodkar and later the via liability bill blunted his efforts
(5) Now onto JK - and Pak phappi jhappis - Start from Sharm-el-shake till date. Everything points to giveup India's position and pamper to seperatists onlee.
(6) Maldives - no one in the world would stop us from sending a boat to save a democratic government. Instead we pampered to Al-Qeeda.

His record is clear. An angry Indian will dub him as he has a misson to destroy India. Not so angry man will say he is just not interested in India as a power but some wife-selling merchant to get few more goodies.

[Prem]

Ek Nya Manmohan in Purani Election Bottle

Indian PM resists pressure on Iran sanctions

NEW DELHI – India's prime minister resisted pressure from the United States and the European Union to curtail its trade with Iran over the country's suspected nuclear weapons program, insisting Friday that diplomacy was the best way to deal with the concerns.Washington and its allies want energy-starved India to curtail its dependence on Iranian oil, which New Delhi imports in immense quantities. Western countries believe Iran is using its oil revenues to develop nuclear weapons, but Tehran insists its nuclear program is purely for peaceful purposes."There have been problems with regard to Iran's nuclear program," Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told reporters after meeting with the president of the European Union. "We sincerely believe that this issue can be and should be resolved by giving maximum scope to diplomacy

[ShyamSP]

[quote="Muppalla"][/quote]

Why limiting criticism to MMS. Whole Sonia-MMS&co sold Indian foreign policy and subverted democracy, esp critical institutions and promoted corruption culture. Their goal seem to be put India under US influence completely and Indian under INC mafia influence. All the benefited from corruption form first-line defense or secondary opposition. There may be some economic successes to portray they are doing good for country.

[RamaY]

^ But HE IS the PM of India, not others.

Please, please, please do not say SG and others are the REAL powers behind him. Then by standing where he stands, he is hiding the real culprits.

[shyamd]

Muppalla ji. Thank you for your interest and I'm glad you enjoy reading my analysis. I just want to make BRF more informed on what is going on in the region and how it impacts us.

Let me just say a few things before I address some of the points you have made. When we read the news, we hear tidbits and tiny parts of the story - at most 5 - 10% of the story and it takes someone to piece it all together and understand the picture. Not all of it is released to the public and when they are released - its usually done when the time is right or its too late for your enemy to respond. So none of us should be too quick to judge.

Firstly, I used to think very much like you and I had most of those points to boot. However, once you look closely at what he has done and what he is trying to do on the external front - the picture becomes clearer on the the strategy that they are using to tie TSP up.

On the subject of war post 26/11 - do you not think that it would have been easy for India to go to war with TSP post 26/11 politically? Think about it - elections in May 2009. Terror strike on Nov 2008. They could have rallied the whole country and built a huge nationalist response to hit TSP terror camps. Nothing creates national spirit like war...

The only real solution there was covert action against terrorists involved in 26/11 in Muridke - in any case it would have involved killing TSPA officers/handlers which is hte same as hitting the TSPA state. So lets say we did anyway, TSPA would promptly say India evil hindu/zionists attacked us in our territory killing boor civilians not the actual killer - bla bla we must hit back and they will kick off a war with India. They wanted a war to bail themselves and the US out. Jihadi's would have promptly run down from their positions in AfPak towards LoC/IB. All the work over the years to decimate JeM and LeT in J&K would have likely gone to waste and we would be back to square 1. US would have declared victory as violence would have dramatically reduced, promptly left their weapons with TSP to use against India, Obama would be hailed as the one who got hte US victory and history might have looked a little different for them. US, KSA and PRC would have bankrolled/armed TSPA once again to fight India. Back to square one again. Take a look at today - US walla has to sign off on every F16 flight from TSP bases if I am not mistaken - that strict controls. TSP is close to being broke.

So next point is why proposals such as free movements across Kashmir with common trade across LoC?
The answer to this is simple. You remove the issue of Kashmir, there is no cause there to rally around the jihadi's and at the end of the day no one really wants war with 2 states that possess nuclear weapons. So why do it?
The idea is to say Kashmir is both of ours, we build up trade to a level where it is mutually beneficial and too costly to break off. And as both sides are benefitting they both agree that the issue of sovereignity doesn't come up until some point down the line - maybe 10 years or where they can settle the issue once in for all. Net benefit - Kashmiri citizens are happy and development improves considerably.

Trade with Pak - why is TSPA so afraid of it? Civvies in TSP were ready to approve it, then TSPA would force them to stop it and they had a clash over the issue. So why is TSPA so scared of it and ready to confront civives over it? Its simply because India would be able to disarm them in the long run wihtout a bullet being fired. We would have leverage over TSP and we would tie them into a strategic mesh so that they would have a lot to lose and the TSPians would turn against the govt if they tried to cut it off.
This is the aim. But defence expenditure will still continue until comprehensive security is achieved. Both sides have peace, both can spend on development - piss & prospelity and all that.
But the other issue here is that, if we show that we are trying for peace with TSP - we get better deals with the EU, GCC and US wrt economy.

GoI needs to do a better job of explaining decisions.

He actively tried to deploy troops in Afghanistan and this was scuttled by Iran, Rus and US (which gave Pindi/Kayani sleepless nights btw). But we are training ANA/ANP at unprecedented levels. Aiding Karzai govt. Intelligence levels - best left unsaid but you can probably guess. Talking with the Pakhtun's. Built a road into Pakhtun territory. Building a railway from Chabahar into Afghanistan - this isn't just for trade - its also used for military purposes. Helping improve the afghan eocnomy and provide long term funding for Karzai govt.

Next, PRC still wants TSP for strategic reasons but today PRC is telling Pak that India gives them more benefits than they have with TSP so why should they listen to them. KSA feels betrayed by TSP involvement in Iran, but yet thanks to Egypt being weakened and them needing nuke scientists training, they need Pak, so only recently softened on Pak and startede giving into some long standing requests by Pak. But they don't trust Pak at all for their security!

US - well, they are still thinking about cutting funds to Pak. So their FM is got his begging bowl out saying they will be bankrupt in 90 days or so etc.

SL - Decisively helped defeat LTTE threat and did not play neutral this time.

Coming to others:-

N Deal - depends who you ask whether it was good for the country or not.

If he was highly pro US, then there is a lot more he could have done - he could have stopped at A3 (MIRV) and not gone in for A5 (ICBM).

Iran - he always showed backbone to the US on this subject from Day 1. Few votes against Iran at UN was due to Nuke deal, once that was done, we went back to business as usual.

Maldives - India would have been aware of the coup if you ask me and the fact that they played neutral is always seen as a green signal to go ahead based on the theory of the coup. None of those people in the unity govt for the next year are unknown faces to India. Elections in a year. Delhi by placing units on standby have sent the message that Nasheed should not be harmed. Let Nasheed regroup and contest for elections. It had been ongoing for well over a few months. Nasheed made a lot of mistakes too. Anyhow we'll leave this for the Maldives Coup thread.

MMS did try to impose US teens on us in MRCA - thankfully IAF top brass, AKA put their foot down.

So overall - MMS external performance isn't that bad, he probably does represent US interests to a certain extent but again - in strategic areas - everything continuing as usual these days. Yes he could do a lot more - implementing KRC reforms on intel for a start.

I agree with you, he hasn't got much power in domestic policy - which is quite frankly shocking.

Its funny how people who agree with some of GoI policies call the person a "spokesman affiliated with the party line". haha. Desperate attempts... So any person who agrees with even one policy would be cast with such name calling and peddling conspiracy theories - isnt that the same tactics that the islamic nutcases/jihadi's use?

[Sanku]

Shyamd>> none should be quick to judge

8 years is not long enough for you?

What will be enough? India broken to multiple pieces, 90% population converted and or killed?

Perhaps then you will not feel obligated to defend the indefensible which you still continue in the charade of "oh dont be too quick"

Actually the writing was on the wall from day one, the tacitcs of "dont be too quick" -- fooled Indians for 6 years. Now even the average Munna on the street does not buy this nonsense frankly -- only the most committed ideologues of congress persist.

Frankly I see no difference between the above analysis and Salman/Digvijay types crying over Batla house in terror heartlands. Same same onlee.

[shyamd]

I am glad that you have come to realize that when you dont have anything to say, you should not say it.

Lol thats rich coming from you considering you haven't actually made any points other than issue rhetoric and issued personal allegations that I am somehow misrepresenting peoples views (which was proved baseless) - why are you so desperate to lie? thats a bit cheap isn't it? Are you an anti-national? . And completely - meaning it has expanded relations with the ANA a lot and well the new agreement is evidence of things to come and taking place now.

More whining

You know keep saying that

"Manmohan's masters will ask Manmohan to do something eventually at the right time, he is just waiting because we cant have war you see"

But the fact is, Manmohan's minders dont want him do anything, and of course he is not going to move without clearances from the "party high command"

The proof of the pudding is eating -- and there is no pudding.

Cheers !!

Lol - more rhetoric. No one can take you seriously - you haven't given any solution that is practically possible and even rebutted my comments on why war was a stupid idea (if you were interested in debate, instead of issuing rhetoric) - then you accuse me of having nothing to say . All you have done is issue rhetoric, made false allegations and therefore your comments are not worthy of a second of my time..

Good luck

[Sanku]

Lol thats rich coming from you considering you haven't actually made any points

Sigh... once again, this a argument that there the govt has done nothing, I can therefore not put forth any points, since the argument is that there are no points, and this was in response to Pakistan specifically and Islamic extremism in general.

To which you attempted to counter by a weak "they did something in SL" -- yes "something" hardly very different from the past and anyway nothing do with topic on hand.

When you have something to say. Let us know.

Lol - more rhetoric. No one can take you seriously - you haven't given any solution that is practically possible and even rebutted my comments on why war was a stupid idea

Actually I said

there are 100000000000 solutions between war and peeing in your pants at the thought of conflict. And posted about 10 of them

To which you offered more waffling excuses.

You are a true spokesman of the govt at every instance "what can I do I am only the govt" gets trotted out.

And on few occasion the Govt does something, like the 2G scam etc, then if it is "PMO did it PM didnt know"


Wonderful. They should have you instead of Sanjay Baru.

[Sanku]

But this was indeed the best defence

Shyamd>> none should be quick to judge

After 8 years, this is what they have to offer.

Wow.

[Satya_anveshi]

Hope admins are on the job and taking note.

Sanku ji, instead of "your defense is not enough" type of one or two liners, why don't you make a case what this admin could have done "realistically"? You think your opinion will be spared?

No point driving out contributor folks from this forum and alleging them to be spokespersons of whatever party that you don't like.

JMVHO as I have self interest in seeing this forum retain and welcome contributing postors and not be driven out by irritants.

[Sanku]

Hope admins are on the job and taking note.

Sanku ji, instead of "your defense is not enough" type of one or two liners, why don't you make a case what this admin could have done "realistically"? You think your opinion will be spared?

No point driving out contributor folks from this forum and alleging them to be spokespersons of whatever party that you don't like.

JMVHO as I have self interest in seeing this forum retain and welcome contributing postors and not be driven out by irritants.

Satya-ji, I have, considering you are interested in content, why don't you take a stand on the issue and suggest what it your position rather that take pot shots off others shoulders?

BTW, you can see "what can be done" by multiple folks, within this day, the TSP thread as seen at least 4 posts with different posters suggesting alternatives.

[Satya_anveshi]

Sanku ji,

Of course I noticed your content and I agree with you to the extent that there are ways this admin could have managed our external and internal affairs better. Your main disagreement with ShyamD was with respect to MMS handling of Pukistan.

IMO, it is far easier to see things in one dimension but reality is there are multiple top priorities to juggle with, multiple internal issues, coalition politics, authority hanging at the whims and fancies of the dynasty, complete disrespect by your own rank and file who have allegience to the party head than the post of PM etc.
I am also of the opinion that if by maintaning calm and appearing pappi-jhappi we provide succor to the puki civilians to develop some backbone, I am all for it. Further, if by our appearing to take away India threat to Pukistan and get Puke Army to face the wrath of jihadis and get them into the fight for survival, I am all for it. Of course I am assuming that this is the strategy behind his inaction/action.

Given our flight path in terms of building our economy and infrastructure I am willing to give benefit of doubt to MMS for his approach on biding his time on defence matters till the Unkil chickens out of Af-Pak. After that we will anyway have to get muddy.

[Sanku]

Sanku ji,

IMO, it is far easier to see things in one dimension but reality.

Satya-ji;

An admins goal is to deliver on all fronts, simultaneously, they can not claim that we will work on some or one aspect while put others on back burner. Therefore I will have to say, that the "reality is complex" is not a valid reason in any shape or form.

Yes, reality is complex, that is given and guess what MMS-ji, it is your job to deliver on all priority fronts at the same time. Hard luck, deal with it. So I am afraid MMS can not be given rope there.

So the questions are simple

1) Is Pak a real issue, amongst the highest priority ? (my answer yes of course)
2) Is "waiting" as a solution helped so far ? (of course not, there is absolutely no difference in either threat perception or issues created due to that accursed wasteland.)
3) Is there a remote possibility of change in above, due to waiting. (No everyone agrees not)
4) Has MMS demonstrated a remote action? ( )
5) Has MMS taken distinct actions which have WORSENED the situation w.r.t. Pakistan (many S-e-S, Havana, Thimpu, Dossiers what not)

What exactly is the doubt that remains that you want to give him benefit for?

[Muppalla]

Th hillarious argument about Pakistan and MMS on BRF for the past couple of years is that if MMS did not do what he did India would have to face a war with Pakistan. The spin seems to be that he did all only to avoid a war. I don't understand why every argument has to be about war? The entire argument is a new zero sum game of "either apease with puppy zhappi" or face a nuclear war.

Are there really no other ways except licking every available paki a-s-s to avoid a nuclear war? This is a new low in an otherwise brilliant BRF. Ego satisfaction of "I have to defend MMS no matter what " is leading this kind of disgusting discource.

[abhishek_sharma]

Sanku/Muppalla miyan: Don't increase your blood pressure over chankian theories. Just ignore them.

[Prem]

India, European Union back democratic polity in Pakistan
http://www.sananews.net/english/2012/02 ... -pakistan/

Bressels(SANA)A joint statement supports a democratic polity in Pakistan and settled on stressing the importance of Pakistan to cooperate with countries in the region to eliminate terrorism and dismantle terrorist networks.India and the European Union (EU) made progress on their Broad-based Trade and Investment Agreement and nominated minister-level monitors to push for its early finalisation but it was discussions on regional issues, especially Iran and Syria, that took centre stage at their annual summit here on Friday.European Council President Herman Van Rompuy proclaimed that the EU was against a military solution to resolve the Tehran-West standoff over Iran’s nuclear programme and asked India to use its leverage with Iran to “bring it back to the negotiating table.”“So, we are not working for any military option…We are working for a diplomatic solution to get Iran back on the negotiating table and we, according to our analysis, only bring them back to the table under pressure and under sanctions,” he said defending the latest round of sanctions announced by the U.S. and the EU.Prime Minister Manmohan Singh advocated dialogue rather than coercion. He admitted to “problems” with Iran’s nuclear programme but said New Delhi viewed Tehran differently from the West — as a close friend and important source of energy to India.

Dr. Singh also indicated India’s aversion to a conflict in the Middle East over the Iran question, pointing out that the country wanted peace and stability because of the large number of its nationals (over 60 lakh) working in the Gulf countries.Iran is India’s second largest source of crude but the West has frequently leaned on institutions and countries, ranging from the Asian Clearing Union to Turkey, to cut off the payment route. This has forced India to constantly look for new avenues to pay Iran for approximately Rs. 5,000 crore worth of crude it imports every month from that country. While the two sides differed on Iran widely with India not in agreement with the West over its plans to impose more sanctions, which are not approved by the United Nations, they seemed to be on the same page on Syria. A joint statement released after the summit also saw both sides adopting a mild formulation on Pakistan. There was no immediate resolution of complaints by Sikh passengers that they were being asked to take off their turbans during security checks, an insistence which they see as humiliating.

[Prem]

http://www.smetimes.in/smetimes/news/in ... ct-pm.html
Give top priority to freight corridor project: PM

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has asked central government ministries and departments and state governments to give top priority to Rs.1 lakh crore dedicated freight corridor project that will substantially reduce infrastructure bottlenecks.The project will connect a land mass of over 3,300 km in the country and could prove to be a backbone of India's economic transport facility, according to a statement from the Prime Minister's Office."In a meeting held in the PMO, the chief secretaries and representatives of the states assured the full cooperation of their state governments in taking forward this important project," the statement said on Thursday.It was decided that monitoring committees will be set up by the states to resolve issues relating to the freight corridor project, especially land acquisition, in an expeditious manner.The representatives of the nodal authority, the Dedicated Freight Corridor Cooperation India Ltd (DFCCIL), will be overseeing progress of work with the targeted project completion date being March 2017.
According to DFCCIL, 67 percent of the land acquisition has been completed through the Railway Amendment Act 2008. As of now, the project is, by and large, on target."The PMO will be closely monitoring progress of the project so that necessary action is taken in a time-bound manner," the statement said.The western corridor from Dadri in Uttar Pradesh to the Jawaharlal Nehru Port Trust near Mumbai will be 1,499 km long. It will connect Haryana, Rajasthan, Gujarat and Maharashtra, with an exclusive high speed railway track.The eastern corridor from Ludhiana in Punjab to Dankuni in West Bengal will be 1,839 km long, and will connect Punjab, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and West Bengal.A major part of the western corridor will be funded with Japanese assistance and nearly two third of the eastern corridor will be built with World Bank assistance.The Sonnagar-Dankuni section will be executed on public-private-partnership mode. Indian Railways is also investing a substantial amount in the project.

[Prem]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/fe ... ship-india
Taslima Nasrin attacks 'cancer' of censorship in Indian society

The writer Taslima Nasrin has hit out at a "growing cancer" afflicting Indian society, identifying a increasing "appetite for censorship" after the second high profile literary event in less than a month was cancelled amid concerns over security."Writers and artists have become the soft targets of religious extremists," she said. "The authority tries to appease either Hindu fanatics or Muslim fanatics in India. All the political parties have different agendas, but they have no agenda or intention to value freedom of expression. It's a dangerous race, who can violate free speech more."
A week after plans for the novelist Salman Rushdie to appear at the Jaipur literature festival were scrapped due to threats of assassination the author later judged to be fabricated, the launch of the latest volume of Nasrin's autobiography, Nirbashan (Exile), at the Kolkata Book Fair was abandoned.Nasrin fled Bangladesh in 1994 when Islamic extremists threatened to kill her, saying that she had made "objectionable comments" about Islam and the prophet Muhammad – which the author denies. After a decade in Europe she moved to Kolkata, where she lived until 2007, when she was forced into hiding after being attacked for being "anti-Islam" at a book launch in the south Indian state of Tamil Nadu.
The writer, who now lives in Delhi, was not due to be present in person at the launch of Nirbashan, but a protest from the All India Minority Forum still forced fair organisers to call it off. The Kolkata Book Fair did not respond to the Guardian's request for comment, but explained to the Times of India that they "could not risk" it. "We were told by this group that the release might cause trouble inside the fair," said spokesperson Tridib Chatterjee. When her publisher later organised a smaller release on their stall at the fair, protesters attempted to prevent it."You may wonder why the authority tries to ban me or ban my book launch," said Nasrin. "They believe I am anti-Islam, and supporting me or allowing me entry to the country or the state or the city or the book fair would send a wrong message to the Muslim fanatics. They fear they would lose the Muslim vote. They do not want to take the risk of a single Muslim vote."

The author believes "the appetite for censorship is growing in India", she said. With Rushdie prevented by fears of violence from attending or even speaking via video link at the Jaipur event in January, Nasrin says we are witnessing "the disturbing victory of Islamic gangsters" in Jaipur and Kolkata. "I am wondering how to stop this growing cancer from spreading," she said.Like Rushdie, Nasrin also suspects her book launch did not represent a genuine security threat. "It was something cooked up," she said, "as launching a book by a controversial author could have proved awkward for the fair and the government."

[krisna]

wrt MMS and his actions or inactions-
At least the external policies are somewhat similar irrespective of which party is ruling the nation.
I do not believe that MMS is sold out to our enemies.
The PM is the responsible person who faces the nation if something goes right or wrong.
The main work is done by the faceless babus and intelligentsia within the govt. These people are present inside the govt always and drive the external policies. of course there will be course corrections along the way. They do not change with elections markedly.

About how much hold MMS has within his govt is of course need not be answered.

This is one area where his lack of people contact is scr*wing the internal policies.
At his age, MMS has less to think about winning an election for Lok sabha and establish his hold on govt.
He is a bureaucrat following orders and will remain so till the end.

Folks have some confidence in our nation and its rulers as they come from the very society as we live and grew.

[Satya_anveshi]

So the questions are simple

1) Is Pak a real issue, amongst the highest priority ? (my answer yes of course)
2) Is "waiting" as a solution helped so far ? (of course not, there is absolutely no difference in either threat perception or issues created due to that accursed wasteland.)
3) Is there a remote possibility of change in above, due to waiting. (No everyone agrees not)
4) Has MMS demonstrated a remote action? ( )
5) Has MMS taken distinct actions which have WORSENED the situation w.r.t. Pakistan (many S-e-S, Havana, Thimpu, Dossiers what not)

What exactly is the doubt that remains that you want to give him benefit for?

Sanku ji,

It is expected that govt should deliver on all fronts by the very nature of the structure we have put in place. So, I am not one of those apologist of GOI. However, in the context we operate and historical data we have, which govt do you give credit for such solid execution?

My model for giving benefit of doubt is as follows:
There are of course a set of high level objectives an admin has to meet and deliver among them some are high, medium and lower priorities.
An example set of high level objectives could be:
•Sustain and Accelerate Economic Growth
•Strengthen Internal Security
•Build Infrastructure in support economic growth and national integration
•Take care of immediate threats emanating from Pukistan and our other borders etc
•Engage with international community to address Indian interests
If an admin has executed and met all of these objectives then it deserves kudos. If not, the way we can evaluate is on how many it has delivered and how many it hasn’t delivered and how many it has worsened.

With respect to Pukistan, my view is this admin has NOT delivered but has not let it worsen (at least after 26/11 or may be time will tell). I believe the thinking of this admin could be as I mentioned earlier and hence my benefit of doubt to this admin.

I would like to see justice for 26/11 done and done soon. This is a frustration but I am hoping that the admin will calibrate and time it to serve the purpose.

Don’t get me wrong, I am have no love lost for MMS/INC govt but single pointed personal criticism to an extent of killing any debate does not help, it exactly does the opposite. Last thing we would like to see on a forum such as BRF is to give clean chit to an underperforming govt. Just want to see more coherent articulation without personal insults.

[Satya_anveshi]

There needs to be distinction between those who say MMS does NOT display chankianness / creativity in dealing with Pukistan and perhaps taking an easy way out while concentrating on other priorities and those who are saying what he is doing is chankian.

I don't know who on BRF is claiming the later, at least I am not.

[nelson]

Even though the main aside of the blog post is on Ms Patkar, there are references to the highest levels of Indian Judiciary, which seriously undermines our national interest. Hope this is the right place to discuss the issue.

http://indiamydreamland.blogspot.in/201 ... ar_02.html

[ramana]

Jim Baggott, "The First War of Physics: The Secret History of the Atomic Bomb, 1939-1949"
Publisher: P.ga..s | ISBN: 1605980846 | 2010 | 584 pages

An epic story of science and technology at the very limits of human understanding: the monumental race to build the first atomic weapons.
Rich in personality, action, confrontation, and deception, The First War of Physics is the first fully realized popular account of the race to build humankind's most destructive weapon. The book draws on declassified material, such as MI6's Farm Hall transcripts, coded soviet messages cracked by American cryptographers in the Venona project, and interpretations by Russian scholars of documents from the soviet archives.

Jim Baggott weaves these threads into a dramatic narrative that spans ten historic years, from the discovery of nuclear fission in 1939 to the aftermath of 'Joe-1,' August 1949's first Soviet atomic bomb test. Why did physicists persist in developing the atomic bomb, despite the devastation that it could bring? Why, despite having a clear head start, did Hitler's physicists fail? Could the soviets have developed the bomb without spies like Klaus Fuchs or Donald Maclean? Did the allies really plot to assassinate a key member of the German bomb program? Did the physicists knowingly inspire the arms race? The First War of Physics is a grand and frightening story of scientific ambition, intrigue, and genius: a tale barely believable as fiction, which just happens to be historical fact. 32 black-and-white illustrations

Read this book to understand the West's drive to blame scientists and eliminate them in other societies.

By getting the scientists, they remove the capabilitie

[Sanku]

Satya-ji;

There does not appear too much of a difference in what we think, so clearly the distance in perspectives is not too much. If you see, the recent round of brouhaha started because

I don't know who on BRF is claiming the later, at least I am not.

Some were claiming it was a deliberate Chankian move.

However some minor differences

With respect to Pukistan, my view is this admin has NOT delivered but has not let it worsen

My view is that the situation has indeed worsened sharply. This is indeed a different debate though, but here I would like to strongly state my view that we are far worse situation than over last 10 years.

. Last thing we would like to see on a forum such as BRF is to give clean chit to an underperforming govt. Just want to see more coherent articulation without personal insults.

I believe an pointed criticism of the govt indeed begins with the person occupying the post of PM, irrespective of whether is a powerless rubber stamp or seat warmer for others.

This should not be construed as personal criticism of Man mohan the person (he is irrelevant) -- this is more to do with pointing out flaws in the "leadership" and "governance" structure.

[Prem]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17013314
India 'loses $500bn to tax havens'

The chief of India's federal investigation agency says Indians have illegally deposited an estimated $500bn in overseas tax havens.Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) director AP Singh said Indians were the largest depositors in foreign banks. Funds were being sent to tax havens such as Mauritius, Switzerland, Lichtenstein and the British Virgin Islands among others, he said.Analysts say this flight of capital has helped widen inequality in India.Mr Singh was speaking at the opening on Monday of the first Interpol global programme on anti-corruption and asset recovery in the Indian capital, Delhi."It is estimated that around $500bn of illegal money belonging to Indians is deposited in tax havens abroad. [The] largest depositors in Swiss Banks are also reported to be Indians," The Press Trust of India (PTI) quoted him as saying.

[ShyamSP]

My view is that the situation has indeed worsened sharply. This is indeed a different debate though, but here I would like to strongly state my view that we are far worse situation than over last 10 years.

I think it is Chankian of criminal gang in Delhi with dumb appointee to take India to 20 years back..

Nepal - Chankian to be silent as Hindu kingdom falls and Maoists take over.
Pakistan - Chankian to initiate talks and not ask them to handover terrorists and not to kill those captured.
Afganistan - Chankian in building some dirt houses to get good boy certificate by Afghans and anything more you need permission from US acceptance from Pakistan.
Maldives - Chankian to accept new Islamists and more Pakis and Chinis in the Southern side

As per a new report in another thread, Constable is wetting his pants to take action that is against SI interests.

Of course, not to forget domestically it is chankian to give take it easy on Islamists for votebank sake and Maoists for EJ sake.

[Prem]

Jago Sone walo, Kusch Karo , kusch bolo apni Jubani
Coup hua Maldive mei, orr Bombing in Rajdhani
Election, Secularism kei altar par
Na Karro Khatam Kahani.
Singhasan pei baithy Teli
Unke oppar hai Maharani .

[Yayavar]

My view is that the situation has indeed worsened sharply. This is indeed a different debate though, but here I would like to strongly state my view that we are far worse situation than over last 10 years.

I think it is Chankian of criminal gang in Delhi with dumb appointee to take India to 20 years back..

Nepal - Chankian to be silent as Hindu kingdom falls and Maoists take over.
Pakistan - Chankian to initiate talks and not ask them to handover terrorists and not to kill those captured.
Afganistan - Chankian in building some dirt houses to get good boy certificate by Afghans and anything more you need permission from US acceptance from Pakistan.
Maldives - Chankian to accept new Islamists and more Pakis and Chinis in the Southern side

As per a new report in another thread, Constable is wetting his pants to take action that is against SI interests.

Of course, not to forget domestically it is chankian to give take it easy on Islamists for votebank sake and Maoists for EJ sake.

Rajiv Gandhi defied China in Sumdorong chu valley, PVN defied Arab nations and met up with Israel, ABV defied US/world at Pokharan, MMS defies reason before the world.

[devesh]

http://the-diplomat.com/flashpoints-blo ... ran-dance/

India’s Iran Dance

Over the last several years, the United States and India have worked hard to achieve a warming of relations. Both nations share various mutual interests: they face pressure from a rising China, are hopeful on cooperation on sharing nuclear technology, are increasing cooperation on strategic and military matters, and see increasing trade opportunities.

There does, however, seem to be one issue that could drive both nations apart – that of Iran’s nuclear program and India’s need of Iranian oil.

In the face of the new sanctions placed on Iran, India finds itself in a precarious situation. India seems unable to honor the demand for sanctions that involve stopping the import of Iranian oil. Procuring 12 percent of all its oil imports from Iran, and with little leeway for switching to other suppliers, India’s national interests demand continuing its relationship with Tehran.

New Delhi certainly wants Iran to honor its commitments to the Non-proliferation Treaty. This would entail Tehran satisfactorily answering all questions raised by the International Atomic Energy Agency and coming clean on its activities in the nuclear domain. At the same time, New Delhi also wants the United States to realize the limits of sanctions to force behavior. Both the U.S. and Iran are important to India’s national interests, and India certainly doesn’t fancy a situation in which it might have to choose one over the other.

Iran, therefore, has become a test case for India’s nuclear diplomacy. The balance between the two conflicting parties – Iran and United States – will have to be carefully managed. During the Cold War, non-alignment involved avoiding “bloc” politics, but under today’s scenario, it will have to be defined as forging a foreign policy that can allow India to chart an independent course that depends on the situation and which is firmly rooted in its national interests.

In the case of the Iranian nuclear drama, the pursuit of non-proliferation, Iranian oil and American goodwill are all important for India. Striking a balance between these interests’ calls for deftly utilizing the strategic relationship that India has with the United States and to explain its compulsions and viewpoint.

Equally, India must use the leverage that it has with Iran as its economic partner during this difficult time. India may well again face situations again where it may feel it must choose between its growing U.S. ties and other important national interests. What the United States and India must both appreciate is that even the greatest of allies will have differences of opinion, and neither should sabotage this growing relationship. The Iranian issue should not, and need not, undermine the goodwill that these two allies have developed.

there is an incredible amount of noise from all and sundry sources about India-Iran ties. there has been a constant stream of articles for the past few weeks claiming India, US "clashing" about Iran, etc.

the blasts could very well be a false flag attack. it will be interesting if Israel knew about it or not? this could be an op by Uncle via Paki hands to activate some sleeper cell. they probably made sure to keep the explosive low key enough to let the occupants of the car escape. Pakis have pretty good experience in making handling much more damaging explosives. I don't see how, if the intent was really there to kill, they didn't succeed.

is this all a pre-scripted drama?

[devesh]

cross post:

Thinking coldly and logically - as has been already said - nothing is impossible. Unlikely or likely is in our individual estimation.

Why is it impossible for Iran to try it? Just looking at the reactions here - we can see that, for the majority, Iran doing it is "impossible" to believe. Therefore all the more cover - if Iran really decided to do it. The message would go across to Israelis anyway - no matter what the majority of Indians refuse to or want to believe. The majority Indian faith in "Iran cannot do it" will guarantee that Iran's relations with India remains intact.

Is it impossible for the Pakis or any Islamists to carry this out? Not at all. It is actually more plausible to carry it out in India. Because even if the perpetrators are caught or nabbed and turn out to be Muslims, the Indian investigations are most likely in the end to exonerate them all charges - and may actually find the hand of saffron terror behind it.

The message still goes to the Israelis.
In fact either way it is the Islamist opposition to Israel who stands to benefit.

EITHER: If Islamists are caught or implicated, they will eventually be released and found not guilty or falsely implicated.
ELSE: If Indians manage to construct saffron hand behind this, then there is hope that Israel itself begins to doubt the reliability of Indians as an ally.
OVERALL : Such an attack is more likely to strengthen Indian support for Palestine. This will be based on a shrewd political estimate - that any Islamist terror, suspected or estimated - brings in more appeasing policy or gestures of appeasement from India.


As for Mossad agents, yes they do operate under the radar in many countries, as do agents of most other nations. Some are found to be completely "innocent" like the American citizen whose "email account" was hacked into in connection with a "terror" attack, while "Israelis" in sensitive areas are unlikely to be found innocent. If they really are Mossad agents, then they are used to such possibilities - and no big deal. Since Mossad operatives can be caught pronto by our intel, but not scouts like Hadley, we can safely conclude that pro-Islamic scouts/operatives have a special invisibility screen that does not activate the scanner which catches onlee non-Islamic operatives, saffron and Israelis.

On the other hand, it is not entirely impossible that Mossad and our intel do work hand in hand, but Mossad was getting on the nerves of and too close for comfort for people in the region we do not want to feel bad in any way - so the Mossadis had to be packed off.

OT for this thread: but are we not supposed to know and have complete intel from our intel about planned outrages such as this one in Delhi? We can prevent coups in BD and know everything that is going to happen in Male.

[Prem]

Salman Khurshid’s amateurish & deeply biased play - 'Sons of Babur'
http://dharmanext.blogspot.in/2012/01/b ... urish.html


Quote:

Despite the power vacuum during times when Utopian Idealism reached its pinnacle under Buddhism’s influence, a definite politico-cultural identity prevailed within India before Islam’s advent. These values were revived through Saint Shankara in 8th Century and Bhakti movements that galvanized the entire nation wherefore indigenous leaders emerged.
It is this Indian identity that Indian Muslims have repeatedly denied.The author’s dilemma is two pronged. On one hand is a resurgent Hindu majority, while on the other a Muslim community that resists Renaissance and acceptance of pre-Mughal influences.The former is easy to resolve since Hindus increasingly show preference for secularism and good governance, rejecting religious dogmatism. Distrust of polity continues over the latter’s opportunism in using Muslims as vote banks, Partition’s trauma, infiltration, etc.The play handles challenges facing the Muslim community vaguely even as the same resists attacks from imported Salafism, while desperately needing to look within and deal with its Indian heritage. He concedes that Muslims need to accept that modern laws have outpaced manmade Sharia and that Muslims are yet to come to terms with the fact that their rule over Hindus is over.Khurshid repeatedly invokes Sufism to legitimize Islam’s mystical aspect but forgets that the hordes that invaded India did not come here as philosophers, rather with swords to run their writ. They were bigoted medieval barbarians, attempting to assimilate a people far beyond their sensibilities. Moreover, all Indian Muslims are not Sufi.Immigrant Americans apologize to Native Americans; Germans for the wars; Modern India denounces casteism, yet we do not see any such bold introspection in this play.The protagonist’s defense of democracy is a moral sham; the play being dedicated to the political toy, Sonia Gandhi