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chetak
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:Bji, I think they were sleeping while the ground moved. And after the coup had no choice but to legitimize it. What surprised them was the violence after the coup.
Asking this question seriously.

What were our chaps doing in terms of assimilation local intelligence and forecasting probable future events?

Or are all babus simply afflicted by the residual sharm-el-shaik sprit??

We are like this onlee. Getting fcukd by one and all, every time all the time and these slimy babus so casually justify it every time and all the while our national situation continues to go south at a rapid pace.

No dedicated "desk" in some govt department, overt or covert, watching and monitoring enemies and friends? :evil:
brihaspati
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by brihaspati »

ramana ji,
no. They knew all along - but they are politically tied up in not being able to react or even make noises. First factor is the Islamist circuit running through Kerala, to Maldives, to Pak and Gulf, back through UP and Deoband. Second factor is part of this circuit involves the money trail - tourism+resort - which also double up as a conduit for other sorts of flows.

chetak ji,
babus are the cheapest whipping boys. They are not duds and quite intelligent people. The problem is the political correctness they have to follow in what they say even on their confidential notes and intel. Nothing that even remotely criticizes or points out long term societal factors within Islamic societies will be acceptable - and in fact could be potentially damaging for the babu's career.

This is why I have been urging not to pay much attention to what we are told about so-called inner-circle leaks. Real events can be accurately sensed by keeping a tab on the society, and identifying the patterns. Most often so-called top-level leaks are part of disinformation protocols - meant to assure populaces.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Philip »

Maldivian money is not routed through India/controlled by India.In fact,the money earned from tourism-which is dominated by politicos who lease out their islands to foreign chains,is allegedly stashed away,mainly in Europe.Nasheed had to go because he was offending entities which had been having a field day a long time ago.If one studies the patter of who is most affected in a Nasheed govt.,financially and politically,and benefits from his removal,the undercurrents and puppetmasters of the coup will be made visible.
brihaspati
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by brihaspati »

Philip ji, the main flow of the money is along the western arc of the circuit, but a smal part also flows back into God's own country.
Philip
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Philip »

Yes,quite right! I forgot to mention this.This is from the islands bigwigs,but difficult to trace.There is also supposedly a lot invested in Lanka.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Muppalla »

Philip wrote:Maldivian money is not routed through India/controlled by India.In fact,the money earned from tourism-which is dominated by politicos who lease out their islands to foreign chains,is allegedly stashed away,mainly in Europe.Nasheed had to go because he was offending entities which had been having a field day a long time ago.If one studies the patter of who is most affected in a Nasheed govt.,financially and politically,and benefits from his removal,the undercurrents and puppetmasters of the coup will be made visible.
But I guess most of the tourism industry is owned by Indians and hence it is Indians' money. They may have been funding or routing the corrupt/stashed UPA money and hence it is possible UPA wants Nausheed to go. I seriously think Indian babus or the Government is not sleeping and this is all a deliberate stuff.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by shyamd »

Spoke to a friend of mine in Maldives, will post his views when time permits:

FYI

The home minister - one of the islamists or supposed islamists who wrote a pamphlet on jews and christians and the Nasheed govt etc - wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Jameel_Ahmed

Mohamed Jameel Ahmed (born 1969) is a Maldivian lawyer and politician who served as Minister of Justice from July 2005 to August 2007, and member of the New Maldives group.
[edit]Political career

In July 2007, Jameel made history when he defied conservative Islamists and nominated three women judges, the first time the Maldives had admitted women to the judicial bench.[1]
He resigned as Minster of Justice after accusing then President Gayoom of failing to take action against rising Islamic militancy and blocking progress of reforms.[2] One month after Mr Jameel resigned, the Maldives experienced its first ever homegrown terrorism incident when young Islamic radicals blew up a homemade bomb in a public park, injuring a dozen foreign tourists.[3]
Jameel is renowned for his public speaking talents and passion for the reform of the criminal justice system, Jameel secured the highest number of votes in the elections to the Party Executive Council, polling even more votes than President Gayoom.[4]
After leaving government, Jameel became a co-founder of the New Maldives which lead the Opposition against the incumbent 30-year old regime. After the election of President Mohamed Nasheed, Jameel served as Minister of Civil Aviation and Telecommunications from Nov. 12, 2008 to May. 30, 2009.
[edit]Personal life and education

A direct descendant of Sultan Giyasuddin, Jameel was born in Fuvamulah, in the southern part of Maldives. He was educated in law in Pakistan, Malaysia and the United Kingdom. He obtained a PhD in Criminal Law from School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) - University of London. This was a merit scholarship funded by the Commonwealth. Jameel is the only scholar in Maldives with a PhD from SOAS-University of London. Jameel is also a senior member of JICA Alumni Society of Maldives.
Jameel is married and has three children.
brihaspati
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by brihaspati »

It never ceases to amaze me, how we can never find items showing islamist behaviour by a person or a group, while we can and do indeed manage to find apparent conuter-Islamist behaviour in the same group or individual.

Usually this type of search always,always finds things on the net that show Islamists NOT EQUAL to Islamist - because they have done or said or claimed X,Y,Z. But surprisingly, while searching, none of the islamist items apparently appear. Must be a new super-selective browser we have not yet heard about - a super-Bing maybe with special bots to seek out "positive" "secular" seeming bits while avoiding the "negative" "jihadi" bits.

This attitude towards apparently contradictory behaviour in Islamists is based on a strange self-deception [or merhaps part of an agenda of deceiving others] - that Islamists are not tactical or strategic. The crucial thing to remember is that a committed Islamist is trained by thousands of precedences in Islamic traditions towards political and military deception. Islamists right from the day of their foundation have often lied about their beliefs and practices - when they felt to be vulnerable, or as part of tactics to allay the guard of societies or groups they intend to infiltrate and destroy.

Everything has been done and tried. Starting with the very foundations - even idolatry was overtly and deceptively agreed to at a certain stage - the origins of the real "Satanic verses".

I have said before in a post some time ago - that both Gayoom and his oppossition were acting with Islamists.

The crucial point to note again is what their attitude and real action on the ground is - towards theologians, theocracy and demands of Arabic-Islamization, as well as Sharia. That is where the tests yield real faces.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by harbans »

These happenings in Maldives are just adjustments paving the way for the eventual takeover by the next generation of more pious. These adjustments are just part of the DNA of Islamist progress to the ultimately harder version of the Sharia.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by sampat »

Muppalla
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Muppalla »

^^^
rime Minister Manmohan Singh, apprehensive about a negative reaction in Washington and reluctant to intervene in a neighbour's political affairs, stopped Indian armed forces from entering Maldives during the coup that toppled President Mohammed Nasheed on Tuesday. Indian intervention would have saved the secular government of President Nasheed. The coup against him is believed to have been instigated by anti-Indian Islamic fundamentalist forces, among them elements in Pakistan. The government adopted the path of least resistance, unlike in November 1988, when former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi ordered Operation Cactus to stall a coup that would have similarly hurt Indian interests. Indian Air Force mounted special operations then to help the government. India air and naval forces were ready for a similar intervention, but were stopped at the last minute by Delhi. Rajiv Gandhi did not worry about Washington's reaction.
If the above is true then what is the wrong in calling MMS as viceroy of US. The saga of MMS rule in every aspect resembles same.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Theo_Fidel »

harbans wrote:These happenings in Maldives are just adjustments paving the way for the eventual takeover by the next generation of more pious. These adjustments are just part of the DNA of Islamist progress to the ultimately harder version of the Sharia.
Hmm. The previous generation was psychotically religious. You know with beheadings and public flogging. I fail to see this nirvana that is now being 'contaminated' with debandi type organizations. It wa always a twisted little place and if anything was even worse earlier. I knew of one expat who spent 2 weeks in the cooler and was deported for having a Ganesha at home. How are things getting worse again.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by shyamd »

Spoke to a former minister in the Gayoom govt.

Was it a coup? Yes it was.

He totally rejects the fact that the Def min and Home minister (mohammed jameel ahmed) are islamists. The source has known both of people very well and especially the Home minister. They both worked on the New Maldives movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Maldives

He says most of the islamist stuff the HM used to attack the Nasheed govt is just rhetoric and it was perceived that the Nasheed govt was weak in this area. But 90% of the criticism of the opposition was on policy. The use of religion as a tool to attack the government is popular and there has been a long track record of it. MDP and the others attacked Gayoom saying that he wasn't a muslim. This is just part and parcel of maldivian politics, one needs to know it to understand and see below the surface of rhetoric.

In fact, Dr Hassan Saeed was accused of herecy for a book he wrote with his brother. This damaged his campaign. So this is not a new phenomenon to Maldivian politics. The current home minister, Dr Saeed and Dr Shaheed were accused of colluding with jews during the last presidential campaign.

Asked if allegations of corruption that Nasheed was digging up on Gayoom were true. His response was that yes it is true, that there is an allegation about Gayoom's brother Yameen was involved in illegal oil trade. But there is talk on the grapevines of evidence of embezzlement of millions, but nothing has come to light on this.

On the coup:
The coup took place as a result of several serious blunders by the Nasheed (who is also my friend). Its his activit mentaly that prevented him from thinking strategically to deal with his opponents. People were really angry with the way he confronted the whole judiciary andthreatened the SC ad HC judges. Nasheed never thought it would come to this. This has no link with Pakistan or China. Pakistan now is trying to get involved now that Indiahas recognised this government by trying to appeal to Nasheed. But I doubt that will work.

However, after the coup, (it was the MNDF who forced Nasheed toquit) , there is a huge support for Nasheed as people didn't lke the wa all this happened.

He thinks Nasheed will make a strong comeback in the next elections. He will be on attack and the others will be defencive.

On relations with India:

Our current defence deals with India are very important and must be maintained. It is in Maldivian interest to provide India with strategic depth in the Indian Ocean.

The source has already spoken to the Home minister - he is keen to maintain all previous agreements and the GMR agreement (on the airport). Although there will be some areas of the deal that will be discussed with GMR.

All the key players are keen to strengthen ties with India even more. Defence minister Nazim is new to politics and depends on the advice of the Home minister Jameel.

The current President Waheed depends on the ministers for his support and most policy will now be decided by the ministers rather than just one man as was in the case of Nasheed.

China relations -

The only chinese presence is the embassy, which is a very active one. They have tried for years to have a presence in Maldives for years, but have been rebuffed by every government.

They have currently submitted a proposal to develop an atoll in the South as a second city which Nasheed's govt was reviewing prior to his ouster. THis is the only real attempt they are making. It will be similar to Hambantota in SL.

We are concernd with Pak religious groups to try and gain a foothold here. Pak doesn't like the fact that Maldives is so pro India and is trying to use religion. We are eqully concerned about Pakistan's involvement in funding fundamentalists. We have also suffered from terror attacks. However, the politicians are afraid to take them on openly, even moderate scholars are afraid to challenge them.

Nasheed is playing his cards well. He enjoys huge support with the youth and will probably sweep back into power in a landside.

On the Blakes visit:

US is not trying to force early elections. Commonweath are here to see if it was a coup -Which it was! Commonwealth and EU will likely pressure us for early elections after their fact finding mission.

The source is someone who served in the Gayoom Cabinet during the period where he undertook the reform agenda. This person worked on reforms and was part of the team drafting the constitution. He then did not support Gayoom's re-election due to feeling there was a need for change in the country. He began supporting and working for election of the ousted President Nasheed.

He described Nasheed as a dreamer and supported his government. However, he dropped his support after he took actions and abused the constitution and rule of law.

I am told that Adalaath (the islamist party) asked for Education ministry - this was rejected, They also asked for culture... yet to be decided.

The first lady was in the swearing in ceremnony - a first in maldives. Dhunya Maumoon was declined the ffer for Foreign minister. The others are Aldi & Asim.

GMR and Nexbis deal will go through. No radical change will be made.

----------------------------
I guess lets see what happens.

TFWIW
Last edited by shyamd on 13 Feb 2012 03:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by devesh »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
harbans wrote:These happenings in Maldives are just adjustments paving the way for the eventual takeover by the next generation of more pious. These adjustments are just part of the DNA of Islamist progress to the ultimately harder version of the Sharia.
Hmm. The previous generation was psychotically religious. You know with beheadings and public flogging. I fail to see this nirvana that is now being 'contaminated' with debandi type organizations. It wa always a twisted little place and if anything was even worse earlier. I knew of one expat who spent 2 weeks in the cooler and was deported for having a Ganesha at home. How are things getting worse again.

so, what exactly is the point of this post? you've argued that it was a society which loved bollywood and equating love of bollywood with pro-India, even extending that to say that India knows everything and anything before it happens. then the story of the expat is to show that things were already "bad". so, you're moving multiple goal posts here. on one hand, things were already "bad". on the other, the ppl love b'wood and >> loved India and >> India knows everything. contradictory, don't you think?

if India was so loved and they were so "dependent", then surely they wouldn't expel an Indian for practicing his religion inside his home?! if they did, then Islamism has been present for quite a while now. and the latest "coup" is simply a more direct assertion of Islamic power. a country like India seems to be easily cowed with any "Islamic protest". even the faintest hint of such a thing is enough to make us tremble. so it is a good tactic to get some "protests" going in the name of "Islam is under danger". it effectively neutralizes any Indian response and thereby allows an overt and in-the-face assertion of Islamic power under the pretense of "people's will".
Theo_Fidel

Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Theo_Fidel »

There can be Islamists and bollywood loving folks on the same island, sometimes the same people....

Again how are things getting worse.
---------------------------

Shyam,

A Maldivians definition of Islamist is likely different from ours.
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 13 Feb 2012 03:16, edited 1 time in total.
devesh
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by devesh »

so, what is the significance of b'wood loving folks? you brought it up, after all? by your own logic, it's an inane piece of data that has no bearing on reality.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by anupmisra »

Connecting the paki-flavored dots....

11th October 2011
Foreign Minister of the Republic of Maldives Mr. Ahmad Naseem ....is on his visit to Pakistan in connection with upcoming SAARC Summit scheduled to be held in Maldives in November this year. He apprised the Defence Minister (of pa'astan) of various sectors including Defence, Health, Tourism and trade etc. He expressed his desire to get Pakistan’s special assistance in these sectors including many others to help Maldives progress. It also merits a mention here that Military cooperation between the two countries started in 1984 and since then Pakistan has been providing military training facilities to Maldives on gratis basis.
Then, December 20, 2011
As Christmas draws near, The Maldives is bracing for another showdown between the traditional, democratic Maldivian Islamists and those who hold extreme views on Islam. And, according to a top source, The Maldives believes there is Pakistani money helping the extremists.One official told The Hindu that the protesters had received support from both Pakistan and the former Maldivian President, Maumoon Abdul Gayoom.
Draw your own conclusions why the Indian Government did not condemn the coup.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Didn't know the Paki's had any money to help anyone! Is this counterfeit stuff they are talking bout.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by brihaspati »

Pakis have been collaboarting seriously from the 90's. And yes to get the idea of Maldivean idea of "islamism" some of the otherstuff that neverappears on our radar - like the public flogging of women - etc needs to be acknowledged - instead of relying on inside info about how all of that is a sham onlee. We are being asked to swallow what Islamists pretend about their non-islamism to the gullible.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Prem »

Fears of possible Pakistanisation of Maldives
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 120212.htm
B Raman
Are the developments in Maldives similar to the politicisation of the Pakistan Army in the 1950s and the Bangladesh Army in the 1970s? That should be a question of concern to India, says security expert B Raman.
There has been disquiet among the large number of supporters of former Maldivian President Mohammed Nasheed over indications that appeared on February 11, that India, the United States and the European Union countries have got themselves reconciled to the continuance of Dr Mohammad Waheed Hasan as the president of the Maldives.While India seems to support Nasheed's demand for advanced elections within two months, it does not seem to support his demand that Waheed should not continue as the president during this period and that an interim president acceptable to all political parties should take over and supervise the holding of the elections.The US and the EU do not seem to be prepared to support the demand for advanced elections. However, they do support Nasheed's demand for an independent enquiry into the events that led to the resignation of Nasheed, who has been alleging that he was forced to resign at gun point by sections of the police and the Maldives National Defence Force (MNDF).Waheed has expressed himself as amenable to the idea of an independent enquiry under him as the president.The three major international players -- India, the US and the EU -- who have been trying to bring about an understanding among all parties on the future course of action without questioning the legitimacy of Dr Waheed, seem to feel comfortable with 59-year-old Waheed despite his total lack of political and popular base in the Maldives.The US knows Dr Waheed quite well. He graduated in English from the American University of Beirut and subsequently did his doctorate in education from the Stanford University of the US. He had served in the UN from 1991 to 2005 -- as the UNICEF representative in Tanzania, Bangladesh, Nepal and Afghanistan.

He had headed the UN office in Kathmandu and Kabul. During his posting of three years in Kabul, he had developed a good personal equation with US civilian bureaucrats and military officers stationed there.Nobody questions Dr Waheed's credentials as a highly educated and progressive-minded former international bureaucrat, who had seen firsthand the damage done to Afghan society by the Taliban. Left to himself, he is unlikely to allow the radicalisation and Talibanisation of Islam in the Maldives.
Prem
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Prem »

Sleepers Of Delhi/ Koi Hai ?

Maldives crisis: Why Nasheed is disappointed with India
Maldives' ousted president Mohammed Nasheed on Saturday said he was disappointed with India over its response to the political turmoil without having properly understood the ground situation in his country.
44-year-old Nasheed, who was forced to step down, making way for his deputy Mohammed Waheed Hassan to assume the post of president, made known his unhappiness over New Delhi reaching out to the new leadership.Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had written to the new President Hassan on Wednesday, expressing "continued support" to the efforts to ensure stability and peace in that country."We are with the idea, with the belief that India would have a very proper understanding of the situation in Maldives, that they will have necessary information and intelligence to make a judgment," Nasheed told PTI in Male.
He said it was disappointing to find that this was not so.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Singha »

http://www.theage.com.au/world/female-f ... 1qfmd.html
http://articles.boston.com/2011-11-25/n ... -sri-lanka
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/207 ... en-un.html

whatever the apologists and MMS loyalists might want to say about a 'nuanced' approach to this problem, Maldives is the next Neo-Pakistan for sure. the only for this nation is downhill under saudi and paki patronage and guidance.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by ramana »

There you go B Ramanji said whats in our minds.
Pakistanization or rather Somalification of Maldives.

It will have blwo back in Kerala and Karnataka at a minimum.

The worst part is UPA allowed this to happen just as they allowed the Maoisation of Nepal. How many self goals will they score before they realize how they are killing Indian interests?
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Philip »

The resorts are mostly owned/operated by leading international chains.Room occupancy in the Maldives is reportedly to be the highest anywhere in the world,more than 90%,why so many Maldivian bigwigs own the resorts /islands which they lease out in turn to the hoteliers.

What we should've done was to have immediately sent in a few warships with troops aboard,and surrounded Male,putting pressure upon the coup plotters.The mere threat of intervention militarily on the side of the earlier govt, would've perhaps saved the regime's bacon.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by ramana »

Philip, You talk of what could be done but not what was not done,
kolaveri di?

What stopped the GOI from what is so obvious?

What was the great chankian strategy behind allowing/facilitating an Islamist coup in the neighborhood?

Was it UP elections/

What if they lose anyway?
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Singha »

imo at present the islamists are under the control of the elites (who own the resorts and the law). but the natural evolution we have seen in TSP will happen in maldives also, the purer harder elements of the kabila will go feral and refuse to take orders from the decadent 'settled' kabila of elites. so one fine day a 100 helpless tourists could get taken out in one of the resort islands by a boatload of faithful, all eager and worked up to rid the land of bikini clad and topless goris who pollute the atmosphere.

western tourism will immediately die in the aftermath. the costly resorts will wither and go under and so will the business interests of the elite who will slowly decamp to SL, Malaysia, Dubai, Aus etc. the end result will be a economically failed, sullen and angry kabila with a host of greviences against everyone and dependent on TSP and PRC for a economic lifeline - thats the endgame that the sino-pak combine is working hard towards.

UP elections is a fig leaf. do you think Khan will not respond with deadly force immediately if a major attack took place inspite of the presidential election process ongoing? poor UP has enough problems of its own, without worrying about the indian intervention in an island 2500km away.

everything is a fig leaf. perhaps the GOI hopes handing over Maldives on a plate to TSP will improve the piss process :mrgreen:
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Bade »

If we can live with Islamists next door on both fronts, why so much heartburn about radicalism on some tiny island chain who have been Islamists for a very long time.

The China hand is perhaps being underestimated here. It could be the primary reason why GoI went ahead full steam and supported the new govt. Did not the old govt engage with the Chinese for military co-operation with a potential base. That must have been the red flag, but as usual GoI is shy of admitting it in public and hence all this soft approach.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by gakakkad »

sampat wrote:US fear stopped Indian armed action in Maldives

From The Sunday Guardian.

UP elections more likely to be the cause than US fear. I doubt the present day US even has the energy to mew against an Indian intervention , leave alone expressing displeasure against India .
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by pgbhat »

Bade wrote:If we can live with Islamists next door on both fronts, why so much heartburn about radicalism on some tiny island chain who have been Islamists for a very long time.

The China hand is perhaps being underestimated here. It could be the primary reason why GoI went ahead full steam and supported the new govt. Did not the old govt engage with the Chinese for military co-operation with a potential base. That must have been the red flag, but as usual GoI is shy of admitting it in public and hence all this soft approach.
China connection stalled Indian help to Nasheed?
At a high-level meeting of the Defence Crisis Management Group (DCMG) chaired by National Security Advisor Shiv Shankar Menon on Thursday, the intelligence agencies advised that a military intervention would not serve any purpose as Nasheed was becoming a “liability due to his linkages with China and hardline elements in that country.” Sources privy to the details of the meeting said the agencies pointed out that “Nasheed was playing ball with China and encouraging anti-India elements in the island nation”.

The agencies, according to the sources, told the meeting that Nasheed had inaugurated the Chinese embassy building in Male, not fully constructed at that time, just four days before the SAARC meet held in that country last year “to send a defiant message to India of his proximity to Chinese leadership”.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by devesh »

if we look at Mediterranean history in the 11th century, a persistent pattern is both the Islamics and Christianists fighting over small parcels of land. like a city state. or an island in the sea. it were these battles which were always decisive in tilting the balance of power. ultimately, Muslim losses in such battles led to the resurgence of Christian power in the Mediterranean. later on, the Ottomans would gain power by a similar process.

we shouldn't underestimate islands like Maldives. they tend to become bases for future expansion. if nothing else, they became another entrenched node in the trans-Eurasian drug-trade/criminal networks with overt Islamic control. this means that any future Indian magnate/criminal/person/group which wants to "escape" or take precautions and move assets or personnel to Maldives (b/c it's located relatively short distance from Indian shores) will have to bend to Islamic demands. if these interests happen to be "anti-Islamic", then that avenue effectively becomes closed.

and Maldives also has a long history of acting as an intermediary/interlocutor between the Persian Gulf and South Indian Islamic interests. the Kerala muslims have a very long history of such interactions....and at one time, there was a struggle between the Shia Persia + Shia Deccan Sultanate against the Sunni Mughals + Ottoman Turkey. Maldives was a huge carrot for both sides. the Deccan Sultanates put a lot of chips in that basket b/c they land route to Persia was blocked by Mughals....
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by uddu »

It must not matter for us who is what and who is not. As long as they are supporters or Dharma, we must support them the most. We must ensure their victory over the enemies. But if they are against Dharma and the Indian nation in any manner, we must halal them. India must look at it's interest from the viewpoint of Dharma. The good ones with good actions are good for India, others not.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Singha »

more and more I like the idea of lease Socotra as a bulwark and unsinkable 'carrier' in troubled waters. sure its a bit of a hellhole with screaming winds, but india like many nations maintains a year round presence in much worse env in antarctica and it wont be no tourist spot, but a intel and naval-air base.

we should also get deeper into Mauritius a much bigger island and unsinkable base moored in middle of southern IOR. its local resources are enough to sustain a base other than ofcourse fuel. and being a volcanic island is in no danger from global warming sea level rise unlike a coral atoll chain like maldives with 6' as max elevation above sea level.
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by sum »

Paradise is perched on the edge of hell
The young man in the striped brown t-shirt had patiently waited his turn to put a question at a giant gathering the Mumbai-based neo-fundamentalist preacher Zakir Naik addressed in Malé on May 28, 2010. “I'm a Maldivian”, Mohamed Nazim said, “[but] I am not a Muslim”. He demanded to know what Dr. Naik believed ought be his punishment under shari'a law.

Little in his long career as a televangelist appeared to have prepared Dr. Naik for the young atheist's surprise attack. The Maldives, Dr. Naik said, seeking to avoid the question, was not an Islamic state. Faced with persistent questioning, the preacher finally said that the punishment for apostates who advocated their new faith was death. “Being smart is good”, the exasperated preacher said, “being extra-smart is not good”.

In the next few weeks, Mr. Nazim would learn the hard way that the televangelist was right. Like many other young people who backed President Mohammad Nasheed in 2008, hoping he would open the way for a secular-democratic order in the Maldives, he found himself instead drowning in a rising tide of religious neo-fundamentalism. Now, with Mr. Nasheed himself swept out of office, there are mounting fears that the entire region could feel the power of the waves.
Ever since September 2007, when a bomb targeting Chinese, Japanese and British tourists went off in Malé's Sultan Park, security experts have feared a paradise for jihadists instead of tourists. Its 1,200-plus islands are near-impossible to police, which means terrorists could use them as bases to target India's western seaboard and even Europe.

In the early 1990s, growing numbers of young Maldivians began to train at seminaries in Pakistan — and once there, found in Salafist neo-fundamentalism a language of protest against President Maumoon Abdul Gayoom's authoritarianism. Men like Pakistan-trained seminarian Ali Jaleel were at the vanguard of this movement, recruiting students through networks of underground mosques and study circles. The Maldives' New Islamist movement came to be known as the “Dot Coms”, a reference to the online sources of theological resources. Mr Jaleel's faction studied the works of Abdullah Azzam, Osama bin-Laden's mentor and the Lashkar-e-Taiba co-founder.

From 2004, these networks acquired greater legitimacy — and a presence in the far-flung atolls. The Lashkar-e-Taiba's charitable wing, along with British-based Islamists like Muhammad al-Rifaee, funnelled hundreds of thousands of dollars into tsunami-hit communities — in return for their souls.
The journalist and activist Aishath Velazinee recorded that islanders were encouraged “to emulate the Arabian dress and lifestyles of the time of Prophet Muhammad”. “Men grew their beards and hair, took to wearing loose robes and pyjamas, and crowned their heads with Arab-style head-cloths. Women were wrapped up in black robes. Goats were imported, and fishermen gave up their vocation to become shepherds.”
What is it with goats and being islamic?
Ali Rameez, the country's leading pop-star, embraced Salafism, renounced his music — and, in a surreal gesture, dumped surviving copies of his compact discs into the Indian Ocean.

Following the Sultan Park bombing, the Maldives security services finally acted: the Dar-ul-Khair mosque on Himandhoo atoll, from where Salafist preacher Ibrahim Fareed ran a shari'a-governed mini-state, was shut down. Illegal mosques run by Islamists in Malé were closed.

Mr. Nasheed reversed course and sought conciliation with the Salafists. Mr Fareed was released from prison after an appeal from Mr. Nasheed, and resumed preaching. Even two of the three men sentenced to 15-year prison terms for their role in the Sultan Park bombing were pardoned.

It wasn't long before this wages of that policy became evident. In 2006, Mr. Jaleel had been imprisoned on terrorism-training charges, after being arrested while boarding a Colombo-Doha flight. He was released from prison — and, in 2009, went on to participate in al-Qaeda's suicide-attack on the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate's headquarters in Lahore.
From 2008, a steady flow of Salafist preachers began landing in the Maldives. Bilal Philips, a prominent televangelist who appears on Dr. Naik's Peace TV station, provoked a furore in 2010 by saying “where heads are cut off, and hands are chopped and people are lashed, such societies enjoy peace and stability”.

In a wry 2010 commentary, the feminist Aishath Aniya responded by noting that the Maldives' “even now on islands such as Kendu in Baa Atoll, most people still leave their front doors unlocked night and day”!

How might things now go, with Mr. Nasheed's erstwhile friends on the religious right ascendant?

Key to the Maldives' problem is this: while the country's successful tourism and tuna-fishing industries had pushed annual per-capita above $5,000, and growth above 20 per cent per annum, it brought a host of social problems.

In 2002, a study estimated that 11 of every 1,000 Maldives citizens was divorced — against four in 1,000 in the United States, and 0.5 in 1,000 in Turkey, making it the worst country for marriages of 92 surveyed.

Even though tourism and fishing generated wealth, few young people were willing to work in these sectors — and there simply weren't enough blue-collar government or private-sector jobs to go around. Heroin use, UNICEF said in 2009, was booming — and the average age of addicts declining.

Ali Jaleel, who blew himself up in Lahore, represents one response to this crisis of identity. Mr. Nazim, the young atheist who stood up to Dr. Naik, is the other.

Mr. Nazim was threatened with death — and, under pressure, allowed the Islamic affairs ministry to announce to the world his renewed embrace of Islam. Even in the face of threats, though, feminists and secular-democrats have mounted trenchant resistance to the religious right. Their struggle will determine the Maldives' fate.
shyamd
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by shyamd »

If anything, we should have been worried about Gayoom during his 30 year stint. He was educated in Egypt and worked with the MB. He wanted to model the Maldives and his party similar to the MB.
harbans
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by harbans »

Shyam Ji, i don't think where a person has been educated matters much. Anjem Chaudhry was educated in the UK and was 'regular' kind of guy, going around with white girls and stuff. Osama was educated in Scandinavia..what is important to realize is that one cannot fight Islam by claiming Islam means Peace, Mercy and Fairness to women etc. These are lies. The true Islamist knows when one says those pack of lies, one is either ignorant or is appeasing. It's the blood that striking shark smells..it's easier and makes more sense to view developments in places like Maldives, Egypt, Syria with that lens. Your analysis of the mechanics underway though is welcome and must go on and it IMHO is mostly correct.
shyamd
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by shyamd »

^^ Thanks. I totally agree. BUt in my comment above I was referring to his history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maumoon_Abdul_Gayoom

Take a quick glance.
Virupaksha
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Virupaksha »

Bade wrote:If we can live with Islamists next door on both fronts, why so much heartburn about radicalism on some tiny island chain who have been Islamists for a very long time.

The China hand is perhaps being underestimated here. It could be the primary reason why GoI went ahead full steam and supported the new govt. Did not the old govt engage with the Chinese for military co-operation with a potential base. That must have been the red flag, but as usual GoI is shy of admitting it in public and hence all this soft approach.
1) That you have gangrene in both your legs doesnt mean you do not have heartburn if it spreads to your hands.
2)One thing is clear. The coup wasnt with clear Indian blessings, if it was India would have recognised the new govt pronto, like the US did and then recanted. I am sorry, all I see is Chankyan explanations for doing nothing. So whatever the spin from the spin doctors, it is clear that the coup wasnt in Indian interests at least as perceived by the MoEF. So whatever the reason, India has lost the power of being the final ruling authority over maldives which it assumed in 1987.

As I perceive both of them are islamists to the core, it is the public loss of Indian authority which will have wider ramifications especially after the colossal loss in Nepal and soon to be lost Bangladesh.
Virupaksha
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Virupaksha »

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90883/7727795.html
BEIJING, Feb. 13 (Xinhua) -- Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin said Monday that China hopes to work closely with the Maldives government to develop the two countries' ties in a stable, healthy and smooth way under the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence.

In response to a media request on China's view on the Maldives' turbulent domestic situation and change in leadership, Liu said that as a close neighbor of the Maldives, China respects the choice of the people of the Maldives and hopes the Maldives can realize national stability, social harmony and economic development.
Brahma Chellaney tweets
China hails Maldives' new president as "the independent choice of its people," just as Xi Jinping is the "independent" choice of the Chinese


http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 888581.ece
“We respect the independent choice of its people and sincerely hope that the country can realise national stability, social harmony and economic development at an early date,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson
So India lost maldives to China.
shyamd
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by shyamd »

^^ They need to be kind to get that 2nd city development plans to pass through.
Virupaksha
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Re: Maldives "coup"

Post by Virupaksha »

shyamd wrote:^^ They need to be kind to get that 2nd city development plans to pass through.
and shouldnt we be "unkind" to stop that?
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