Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 2010)

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Ambar
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Ambar »

abhischekcc wrote:If the Greece state leaves the citizens out in the fields on a cold winter night, they will find that the citizens will picket their own houses. IOW, Europe is staring down either an economic collapse or a civil war.

Long term, civil war would be better for the west, as the current system consists of evil people who live off the fat of other people. As long as they are not removed, they will continue to leach off the system.
You know what'll fill in Europe if there is a vacuum ? Political Islam. 21st century will be remembered for European fight for survival. They need a new age "council of Clermont" and a new pope Urban who'll ask them to come out of their coma, take the gloves off and start fighting back. Sadly though, as Europe plunges deeper into recession, the notorious radical left seems to be the best buddies of Sharia-matics.

The entitlement culture of Europe and to some extent US will soon be over. 18 yr old black and latina single moms living on section-8 and social dole while talking over their iPhones, buying expensive clothes and getting high cannot be sustainable for much longer. Use the same money to improve schools,infrastructure,community colleges and provide capital to those who have new ideas.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

nice thoughts, but the kind of jobs the bottom 30% educationally could do have all been outsourced to a bunch of places ranging from mehico, central america, bangladesh, parts of africa, east asia and ofcourse dear old china :mrgreen:
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/opini ... -more.html

some good news some bad news for china. a lot of rural labour are apparently reluctant to come back after the spring holidays, which is bad for the foxconn types. but it also means conditions in rural areas are better such that being a migrant worker is not so attractive.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Neshant »

abhischekcc wrote:If the Greece state leaves the citizens out in the fields on a cold winter night, they will find that the citizens will picket their own houses. IOW, Europe is staring down either an economic collapse or a civil war.

Long term, civil war would be better for the west, as the current system consists of evil people who live off the fat of other people. As long as they are not removed, they will continue to leach off the system.
Croney capitalism has got to go. A whole lot of what is banking & financing today is a scam. The root of the problem is the bad monetary system of worthless paper being peddled which allows a hoard of con artists doing no real productive work in society to game the system.

If I were leading Greece, I'd play along talking cuts & austerity and milk as much as I could out of foreign banks as I could and then default. Of course the other europeans are one step ahead trying to get multi lateral institutions involved to make sure Greece will be isolated if it tries to default on its debt obligations. The only thing Greece can pray for is a system wide collapse where debt obligations around the world implode allowing them to escape with the great buffalo herd.

What was being done to African states by Europe in yesteryear (debt enslavement) is now being done on Greece. They are the new negros. The european system is turning canabilitic on one of its own. How long before slave ships pull into Greece ports and men have their teeth & health checked before being shipped off in shackels to work in a sweatshop.

The irony that Greece was involved in the NATO invasion of Libya to rob that country of its gold, oil and other investments does not escape me however. Hard then for me to have sympathy for this country.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Neshant »

Don't setup an account with western banks which have branches in India. All your info gets shared with the govt of the country from which they originate and passed around. Only bank with the state bank (govt banks) in India.

The Indian govt won't share your info with any foreign govt.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Satya_anveshi »

a bit OT as far as "global economic meltdown" perspective is concerned but as those of us who followed/following events from 2007 (or should we say 2001?) know that the foundation of global economy, whose engine has been the economy of US, has shaken and has suffered a major faultline.

The below article just validates all the related perspectives from some big name conmen err e-conomists:

Is This the End of Market Democracy?
The 2012 election will offer voters a stark choice between right and left alternatives.

President Obama is calling for:

investing in things like education that gives everybody a chance to succeed. A tax code that makes sure everybody pays their fair share. And laws that make sure everybody follows the rules. That’s what will transform our economy. That’s what will grow our middle class again.

Republicans, in turn, are denouncing the expansion of a Democratic “entitlement society” and what they see as a trend toward European social democracy. They are calling for sharply reduced taxes, regulation and government spending to free market forces and revive private sector economic growth.

While Americans are going to be able to choose between two contrasting ideologies, what if both choices are off the mark? What if the legitimacy of free market capitalism in America is facing fundamental challenges that the candidates and their parties are not addressing?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Prem »

The New Power of the Global Middle Class
The BRICS comprise four distinct trillion-dollar plus economies (Brazil, Russia, India & China) plus the recent addition of South Africa which has nearly a half trillion dollar GDP. Whether it was a marketing ploy or brilliantly prescient, Goldman Sachs economist Jim O'Neill -- who coined the BRICs moniker -- created a new portal into debating and thinking about the future global distribution of power that has more dynamism than the conventional binary framing of America vs. Asia or more flamboyantly, the West vs. the Rest.
Many have tinkered with the question of whether the BRICS nations are the right ones to celebrate as tomorrow's national wunderkinds or not. I'm guilty of this as well -- suggesting at the recent Halifax International Security Forum that Turkey, itself closing in on membership in the trillion dollar GDP club, be considered the "silent T" in TBRICS.In contrast, George Mason University's Jack Goldstone tosses out the decade old skeletal structure of BRICS and says that new significant trends have changed which nations will be up and which down. He suggests that TIMBIs be the new acronym -- Turkey, India, Mexico, Brazil and Indonesia.Goldstone tosses out Russia and China on demographic grounds, arguing that labor force growth will determine which economies are most fast-growing and vibrant. Russia's population is shrinking while China's workforce will age fairly rapidly
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Neshant »

ramana
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ramana »

TIMBIs rhymes whith Thambis (little brothers). Either way it smacks of condesencion.

The reality is now that colonialism is in its final death throes (GB, FRance, Dutch and US), the world economy is reviving.
The premodern world powers are reviving.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Prem »

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... us/253160/
The World in 2050: When the 5 Largest Economies Are the BRICs and Us
By Charles A. Kupchan
As China, India, Russia, and Brazil join the global middle class, brains and money will increasingly flow away from the United States
In 2010, four out of the top five economies in the world were part of the West. In 2050, according to Goldman Sachs, the United States will be the only Western power to make it into the top five.
Although the United States will be number two in 2050, its economy will be much smaller than China's. Goldman Sachs projects that China's GDP should match America's by 2027, and then steadily pull ahead. The collective GDP of the four leading developing countries (the BRICs--Brazil, Russia, India, and China) is likely to match that of today's leading Western nations by 2032. The World Bank predicts that the U.S. dollar will lose its global dominance by 2025 as the dollar, euro, and China's renminbi become co-equals in a "multi-currency" monetary system.The United States in 2010 posted a current account deficit of $470 billion, contributing to global imbalances that threaten future U.S. growth. Meanwhile, China in 2010 racked up a surplus of $305 billion. America's aver- age rate of consumption over the past decade was seventy percent of GDP and its savings rate roughly 3.5 percent. In contrast, China's average rate of consumption over the past decade was thirty-five percent of GDP and estimates of its savings rate range as high as forty percent.China's economy will cool off over time; growth rates, savings rates, and budget surpluses normally decline as national economies mature. But the impressive prospects for growth in China, India, and other developing countries are also grounded in immutable demographic realities. The West's population represents less than twenty percent of the globe's total--and is poised to experience both a relative and absolute decline in the years ahead. While the U.S. population and labor force will grow gradually over the coming decades due to both immigration and fertility rates higher than the Western norm, Europe's population is poised to shrink. The EU's aggregate fertility rate falls short of the replacement level and its immigration rate is below that of the United States. Japan's population is also aging rapidly. Meanwhile, although China's population begins to decline around 2025 (due to the one-child policy implemented in 1978), as the figure below shows, China and India both have impressive pools of labor on which to draw for years to come. Many other parts of the developing world will be experiencing significant increases in their labor forces in the years ahead.Students coming from China, India, and South Korea together received over fifty percent of all doctoral degrees awarded to foreigners. It should be no surprise that Asia's share of published scientific papers rose from sixteen percent in 1990 to twenty-five percent in 2004.The economic primacy of the West has already begun to wane -- and the global diffusion of wealth will quicken over the course of this decade. America's military superiority will remain unquestioned well into the next decade. However, the influence that comes with such superiority is already diminishing.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Prem »

Again 2022 is the breaking point when Indians get in to Taap Gear , wipe out all the past tears and begin to gather without fear all that have been dear to our peers.

Image
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Suraj »

The market response to the Greek deal has been interesting. I don't think the Greek default/no-default per se is the meat of the issue. The primary consideration is the solvency of the German and French financial institutions. Greece will leave the Euro sooner or later - it's the only meaningful way they can survive. But their departure is not much more than a blip. Ensuring the Franco/German financial establishment is not hurt is what matters. Greece itself would have been better off doing what Iceland did, or at least what Ireland did. Instead they're just roadkill here.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by yogi »

India Said to Propose BRICS Bank

Hitting the west, where it hurts! All power ultimately comes down to money and economics:

"...Who owns the bank, owns the Heartland!
who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island;
who rules the World-Island controls the world"
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

I am reminded of the founder of oberoi or taj being denied entry into whites only hotel in mumbai and going and setting up his own chain. or brits going he haw he haw when jamsetji tata said he wanted to setup a steel plant in india.

nice idea. setup our own club.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by abhischekcc »

Blue Ocean Strategy!!!
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by vic »

How come Greece borrow so much money and EU did not notice?

Also I fail to understand why Greece default will lead to collapse of Euro? If any nation using dollar defaults, then it does not mean collapse of dollar or USA. In fact Greek default would actually mean that Euro is a strong currency which cannot be messed around i.e. killed by printing press, which is exactly what is happening now!
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ramana »

vic,
"Who is Sita?" type of post!
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SBajwa »

you hit the nail on head. no growth in real income and a rising tide of higher education, healthcare and consumerism (must have gadgets, bigger homes, bigger everything, annual vacations) have meant women *had* to enter the workforce regardless of their views on feminism. childcare is also not cheap so a good part of 2nd income is tied down into such non negotiable charges like mortages and childcare. meantime home prices kept on rising to keep the gorilla trap shut
The big problems were

1. People on minimum wages getting million dollars house on "interest only mortgage". (Today 50% of houses/apartments in Florida are up for grabs if you can pay cash ($250,000 condos going for $50,000).

2. Industry moving out to China for low-middle class average joe and thus both joe and jane had to work.

3. The whole fiasco of accounting companies, Enron, Lehmann bros, etc.

To me when Reagan was president (mid 1980s) the situation was very very bad (remember the stock market crash of 1987) even minimum paying jobs were not available.

Here are two things happening

1. All gasoline stations are told to mix at least 10% with ethenol. (taking away dependence on mid east)
2. Watch out for the next big thing which is Shale Gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_gas

The energy companies are making tons of money in Pennsylvania, New York, West Virginia and Ohio with this Shale Gas (to remove dependence from middle east oil).

GM reported their biggest profit in recent history (Sales in China and East Europe). Historically they always fell flat the next year after reporting the biggest profit.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Not just no growth in real income folks, It was no growth in income while productivity continued rising. Average worker productivity is now 300% of the 1980 value yet adjusted for inflation take home pay is less than 1980! Americans now work some of the longest hours in the world. I've seen one report that has Americans in the 2,300 hours annual average. This when German average is 1,400 hours of annual work.

Living in America I can say the major reason society is falling apart is the lack of time for each other. Kids get home from school at 3:30 PM but parents get home at 7PM or 8PM. They see kids for 1-hour then back to work. My colleague could not go to his Dads funeral for 3 weeks due to work pressure. A constant problem for my colleagues is using the vacation time they have accumulated as it keeps expiring at the end of the year. Some offices have a mandatory vacation period now

Wealth is being confiscated by predatory wealthy class. Neshant definitely has a point, despite some of the wilder claims.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by akashganga »

http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/japa ... e+SoCal%29


A mirror in the real estate sun – Japan posts record trade deficit while real estate values go deep into the 1980s. US has decade long collapse in real estate values in spite of record low mortgage rates. The path of two lost decades in US real estate values is looking very similar to Japan.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Prem »

[quote="SBajwa"][quote]


USA is a big exporter of Gasoline, Diesel and Jet Fuel . Crude get refined and shipped overseas. There is no lack of crude but the control over the resources by few well knit entities who have made decision to make profit at the expense of whole nation's economic well being.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SBajwa »

by Jujhar
There is no lack of crude but the control over the resources by few well knit entities who have made decision to make profit at the expense of whole nation's economic well being.
Who innovated the use of petroleum? That happened about 100 years ago in USA.

Another thing that happened about 150 years ago was Invention of Telephone by Bell.

He created a company called AT & T and not until late 1970s was this company broken up into 20 small companies by U.S supreme court. Which started the Information revolution of Cell Phones, Personal computers, Internet and IT all spun from the single act of U.S supreme court.

something like this needs to be done in many other areas too!!!
Theo_Fidel

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Actually no! It was Benz who invented the internal combustion engine and Europe who lead the key technologies including Refining.

The key thing was Europe had little oil of its own. America had 80% of worlds oil till the 1950's. It was and is an incredibly resource rich continent.

The problem with crude price is extraction of ever more expensive oil. Tar sands for instance are only profitable at $70 per barrel and above. This means oil is now structurally high cost.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ramana »

Jhujar wrote:

USA is a big exporter of Gasoline, Diesel and Jet Fuel . Crude get refined and shipped overseas. There is no lack of crude but the control over the resources by few well knit entities who have made decision to make profit at the expense of whole nation's economic well being.

NPR had asegment on why gas prices are up now.

- Political factor of Iran confrontation. Minor as Iran crude isnt that good.
- Refinery shutdown for maintenence: Seven units are down right now
- US export of refined product as natural gas is cheaper in US now. Hence cheaper to crack oil into distillate products. Even Mexico cant compete with this cheap NG heating source.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by hnair »

Not a fan of the control freak and fence-sitter extraordinaire, but.... he is rubbing it in
(surprisingly Beeb is kissassing him, while he is kicking their nuts. I smell a "ex-South Asian correspondent" who recently moved to the ASEAN desk)

'Europe is poor so should live within its means'
"Europe... has lost a lot of money and therefore you must be poor now relative to the past," he reasons in an interview with BBC World Service's Business Daily.

"And in Asia we live within our means. So when we are poor, we live as poor people. I think that is a lesson that Europe can learn from Asia." :P
European workers are overpaid and unproductive, Dr Mahathir believes.

"I think you have paid your workers far too much money for much less work," he says.

"So you cannot expect to live at this level of wealth when you are not producing anything that is marketable."
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by krisna »

Opposing Trends in Debt and GDP Growth 2/22/12
$100 billion down…

$40 trillion left to go!

Hey, don’t hold us to those figures. But yesterday European sages cut another deal to stave off the truth. Instead of defaulting openly and honestly — as Greece has done over and over again ever since 1827 — the Greeks will be ‘rescued.’
And as soon as the Greeks are fished out of the water, they’re to be given a shave and a haircut. No kidding. They’re supposed to shave off more public employees, more spending, and more benefits.

Already, one of 5 people is out of a job…with 2 out of 5 unemployed among young people. In November alone, 126,000 Greeks lost their jobs — the equivalent of 3.5 million job losses in the US, in a single month.
And what’s important about Greece’s 6th major default on its foreign debt? It defaulted for the first time in 1827. Since then, it’s made a habit of it.
The world produces about $50 trillion worth of output per year. Some countries — usually poor ones — have very little debt, for the simple reason that no one would lend them money. Others — such as the UK and the Netherlands — have total debt burdens over 500% of GDP. (Much of it is mortgage debt, which is a special case…since it may be considered an on-going expense, a substitute for rent.)

Even at 200% of GDP, debt doesn’t have to be a permanent and irreducible drag. If the economy grows faster than the debt, the burden becomes lighter over time. That is what happened in the US, for example, after WWII…and again, during the Clinton years.
Most of the developed world is not so different from Greece. Some have more debt. Some have less. Overall, they have government debt equal to 100% of GDP. Household debt adds another 200% of GDP…or more; the typical developed country has total debt somewhere around 300% of GDP.
Unless action is taken, these tax increases will take some of the metal out of America’s already-anemic ‘recovery.’

And here’s something else that’s blocking the path to genuine recovery: Young people no longer start off in life with a clean slate. They’re heavily burdened with debt. They can’t spend. They can’t buy.
Outstanding education debt surpassed credit-card debt last year for the first time, according to Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of FinAid.org, a student loan website. Recent college graduates carry an average debt load of more [than] $25,000 each, which can limit their ability to qualify for mortgages even if they’re fortunate enough to land a job in a market with an unemployment rate of 9 percent for 25 to 34 year-olds.

Calling it a “student-loan debt bomb,” the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys warned Feb. 7 about the effects of rising student debt on recent graduates, parents who cosigned their loans and older Americans who have gone back to school for job training.
Normally, the housing ‘escalator’ works like this. Young people buy starter houses from older people. The older people move up to the family homes, buying the houses of people who are selling out so they can buy retirement houses. If the starter houses aren’t bought, the escalator stops. Young people can’t buy; so, older people can’t sell.

The other part of the story — not widely reported — is the enslavement of the young to the old. In effect, instead of families paying for their children’s education, they force the children to borrow the money from the government. Then, paying it back, the money is recycled to old people — through Social Security, Medicare, and so forth. Meanwhile, the government borrows trillions more to fund their giveaway programs. In the US, the total is over $15 trillion and rising — most of it destined to pay benefits for people over the age of 50.

And guess who’s supposed to pay for all this debt? The young, of course!

How long before they revolt?
1) at least among medical community, young freshers tend to have lot of liability/debt combined with long gestation period of medicine before one earns, has created deficiency---->>>> leading to govt bringing in docs from countries like India and china etc

2) Govt has taken over the family structure- looking after the individuals which in the past was done by families themselves.
Biggest problem is breaking down of family unit with individuals gaining more freedom. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1245266
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by krisna »

How Austerity Hinders an Economic Recovery
We certainly hope so. We’ve been waiting years to watch the final crack up of the phony-money system. We don’t want to miss it!

But you never know. For all we know, the system is cracking up now…right before our eyes. We just don’t recognize it.
Far from falling, debt burdens are rising fastest in European countries that have enacted the most draconian austerity programs, according to The Associated Press’ Global Economy Tracker, which monitors the performance of 30 major economies. The numbers back up what many analysts say: Austerity isn’t just painful. It can be counterproductive and even make a country’s debt load grow.

Many fear the cutbacks will cause Europe to sink into a self-defeating spiral: Higher debt leads to harsher austerity, growing social instability and deeper economic problems. Governments could find it even harder to pay their bills.
The pain is already intense. Portugal’s unemployment rate hit a record 14 percent at the end of last year. Ireland’s economy contracted a worse-than-expected 1.9 percent in the July-September quarter of 2011. And Greece reported that its already basket-case economy shrank 7 percent in the October-December quarter of last year.
Under a deal approved Tuesday by the 17 countries that use the euro and the International Monetary Fund, Greece will get a $172 billion bailout in exchange for accepting another dose of austerity that includes laying off 15,000 civil servants and slashing the minimum wage by 22 percent.

Portugal cut pensions, reduced public servants’ wages and raised taxes starting in 2010. Yet in the third quarter of 2011, government debt equaled 110 percent of GDP. That was up from 91 percent a year earlier.

— In Ireland, middle-class wages have been reduced 15 percent and the sales tax boosted to 23 percent (the highest in the European Union). But its debt amounted to 105 percent of economic output in the third quarter of last year; a year earlier, it was 88 percent.

— In Britain, Prime Minister David Cameron staked his political future on his austerity plan. Government debt ratios, though, reached 80 percent in third-quarter 2011, up from 74 percent a year earlier. And Moody’s this month cut its outlook on Britain’s prized AAA credit rating from “stable” to “negative.”

— In Greece, two years of austerity programs have devastated the economy and triggered riots. Still, the government’s debt equaled an alarming 159 percent of the country’s GDP in the July-September quarter of 2011. That was up from 139 percent a year earlier.
The century began with George W. Bush’s ‘pre-emptive war’ doctrine — contradicting everything nations had learned over at least 2000 years. Even the Romans new better than to go to war unprovoked. Not that the attacker can’t win from time to time. But an aggressor nation sets the gods against himself; eventually, he is punished…often brutally. We saw that as recently as 7 decades ago, when the aggressor nations of WWII — Germany, Italy and Japan — were crushed.

But now the US is the aggressor. Can good guys be bad guys?
:(( We don’t know, but we think we see the gods edging over to the other side.

But our beat is money. And in the world of money, too, the constraints that kept people from going into bankruptcy and ruin have been removed.

Once government leaders were ashamed of deficits. Now they’re proud of them.

Once, economists, finance ministers and heads of households tried to avoid debt; now they welcome it.

Once, a central banker who created money “out of thin air,” had his private parts cut off; now his manhood grows with the money supply.

Once, a banker who lent money at less than the inflation rate was regarded as a fool; now he is seen as a hero.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by paramu »

Looks like Mahathir Mohammed reads this thread, at least Neshant's posts.
"And you can't remedy that by printing money. Money is not something you just print. It must be backed by something, either good economy or gold."

...

In particular, he believes Europe and the West must begin the long slow process of restructuring their economies to reduce their dependence on the financial sector.

"I think you should go back to doing what I call real business - producing goods, providing services, trading - not just moving figures in bank books, which is what you are doing."

...

"Currency is not a commodity", he says.

...

"But currency, you cannot grind it and make it into anything. It is just figures in the books of the banks and you can trade with figures in the books of banks only.

"There must be something solid to trade, then you can legitimately make money."
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Christopher Sidor »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Not just no growth in real income folks, It was no growth in income while productivity continued rising. Average worker productivity is now 300% of the 1980 value yet adjusted for inflation take home pay is less than 1980! Americans now work some of the longest hours in the world. I've seen one report that has Americans in the 2,300 hours annual average. This when German average is 1,400 hours of annual work.

Living in America I can say the major reason society is falling apart is the lack of time for each other. Kids get home from school at 3:30 PM but parents get home at 7PM or 8PM. They see kids for 1-hour then back to work. My colleague could not go to his Dads funeral for 3 weeks due to work pressure. A constant problem for my colleagues is using the vacation time they have accumulated as it keeps expiring at the end of the year. Some offices have a mandatory vacation period now

Wealth is being confiscated by predatory wealthy class. Neshant definitely has a point, despite some of the wilder claims.
But what about German wages as compared to the american ones? Further significant number of German workers are are into very high skilled jobs. Compare this with american worker. While the German example may work for an export oriented and small country. For a country of american proportions, in terms of population and economic weight, following German example will just not cut it.

To have an analogy, think of parasites and host. The export-oriented countries are the parasitic while the domestic-demand driven countries are the host. The parasites have to be lesser in number as compared to the host, otherwise the parasites would die out.
Neshant
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Neshant »

Christopher Sidor wrote:To have an analogy, think of parasites and host. The export-oriented countries are the parasitic while the domestic-demand driven countries are the host. The parasites have to be lesser in number as compared to the host, otherwise the parasites would die out.
I don't agree with the analogy of parasite & host in the above context.

A country exporting something of value to another country is a trade partner, not a parasite.

The term parasite is reserved for those who take from others against their will through gaming and/or scamming the system. A good example are the many private banks & financials that are beneficiaries of bailout money and financials which offloaded their gambling losses/liabilities onto the backs of suckers (taxpayers). Via the money printing central bank which they control, they steal the savings & wages of those doing honest & productive work in society.

A good deal of what is banking & financing is based off the peddling worthless paper money and other worthless paper derivatives thereof, its devaluation, confiscation, taxation..etc of people doing real jobs in society. I call it the useless middleman industry and it now employs an alarmingly large number of parasites sucking the blood of the host (the productive).

The real stimulus will come when a good deal of this useless middleman industry is dissolved. The mechanism is through the introduction of competing privately issued currencies among which will surely include gold to keep things honest. In capitalism, it is the market that should select the money and the market that should set the interest rate - not some group of self-proclaimed (clueless) oracles at the top. They inevitably end up turning capitalism into croneyism.

These folks are actively trying to resist sceeding their power over the issuance of money to the people who earn it. They hope to keep the people entrapped in using their printing press money which they control and have bribed government into enforcing its usage as legal tender. If they lose their control of the printing press, their job security is gone.

How else can an "industry" that researches nothing, develops nothing, manufactures nothing and markets nothing (other than scams) exist. It can only survive as a paraiste.
SBajwa
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SBajwa »

This is a brilliant Karmic principle!!

"And in Asia we live within our means. So when we are poor, we live as poor people."

People who understand that they can live with just water and Roti (Bread)! and without cars, house, clothes and other amenities have already made it to the next level.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Neshant where does the money skimmed off by the 'middlemen' go and how does it make it there. This money somehow does not make it back into the general economy hence the need for printing presses. So where does it go.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Yogi_G »

Saw a BBC documentary on the state of American economy yesterday. Heard the concept of "tent Cities" for the first time. Shocking! They are the analogue of the Indian slum. Wonder when the "tours" of such tent cities by visiting tourists begin in the US.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

SBajwa
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SBajwa »

Michigan is the poorest state hit by the decline in Automobile industry.
Neshant
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Neshant »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Neshant where does the money skimmed off by the 'middlemen' go and how does it make it there. This money somehow does not make it back into the general economy hence the need for printing presses. So where does it go.
It goes into their pocket and it makes its way there via a variety of means.

I'm somewhat short on time so I'll post what I came here to post and get back to this later.
Neshant
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Neshant »

Listen to this and keep in mind it was a lecture given back in the early 90s.

You'll be stunned towards the end how accurately he predicts the current scenario.

Neshant
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Neshant »

unbelieveably stupid answer from greenspan.

ArmenT
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ArmenT »

Are Greeks the hardest workers in Europe?

As the article notes, while the common perception is that Greeks are lazy and Germans and hardworking, the truth is that the average Greek puts in 40% more time working in a year than a German does. In fact, the Greeks put in the most working time of all European nations and the Germans are the second least, right behind the Dutch. And the Greeks take less holidays and sick days too. However, German workers do more productive and higher value work and therefore beat the Greeks on the (GDP / # of workers) stat.

Some of the comments are also interesting.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Yogi_G »

Singha wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front ... 694094.stm

this is likely the bbc link
That's the one. Shocking indeed. I am sure should someone do a "tent city tour" in these places they would be beaten up as against in Dharavi where no one bothers.
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