Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 26 Feb 2012 21:54

When America talks to Taliban, they are seen as talking to their enemies. But when India talks to Hurriyat and Yasin Malik, they are seen as talking to "disaffected" people. You are right. This world is strange.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 26 Feb 2012 22:16

abhishek_sharma wrote:When America talks to Taliban, they are seen as talking to their enemies. But when India talks to Hurriyat and Yasin Malik, they are seen as talking to "disaffected" people. You are right. This world is strange.

They are still citizens and have the right of communication with the govt.And since they haven't participated openly in Armed insurgency against India , I do not see what is the harm in talking to them.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 26 Feb 2012 22:18

>> And since they haven't participated openly in Armed insurgency against India

??

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Feb 2012 22:24

They haven't ? :o

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 26 Feb 2012 22:32

^^Not as part of hurriyat conference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Partie ... Conference

If we can talk to Nagas,Ulfa,Naxals etc , I do not see what is the problem in talking to Hurriyat.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 26 Feb 2012 22:44

>> Not as part of hurriyat conference.

So the previous sins of Yasin Malik can be forgiven?

And we shouldn't talk to Nagas etc either.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Feb 2012 22:50

Anyhow, from your Wiki link;

In 2007 Yasin Malik and his party launched a peaceful campaign known as Safar-i-Azadi (Journey to Freedom).[5] This journey was to create an atmosphere for anti-Indian agitations among public which lasted for one year and during it, Yasin Malik and his colleagues visited about 3500 towns and villages of Kashmir.[6] Stone pelting and sporadic attacks by Muslim majority of Kashmir of security forces have increased hence forth. In November 2009, Kashmiri Pandits were reported to have been subjected to death threats and attacks; the Hurriyat Conference never responded by promising them security.[7] In January 2010, Yasin asked Kashmiri Pandit migrants not to return to their homes in the Kashmir valley, but was arrested a few days later.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 26 Feb 2012 23:03

abhishek_sharma wrote:>> Not as part of hurriyat conference.

So the previous sins of Yasin Malik can be forgiven?

And we shouldn't talk to Nagas etc either.

Sir, you or me as an individual can take such a hard stand.But I doubt if there is any Democratic Nation state which can afford to behave in a similar way until unless it is ready to commit genocide.And this talking with opponents is not unique to India.If you construe it as weakness then I doubt if there is one strong nation on this planet.Israel talks regularly to palestinian outfits.America talks to taliban.Infact throughout its history it has been talking with its enemies/opponents from barbary states to Geronimo.It talked with North Vietnam govt which was directly responsible for the killing of more than 50000 americans.Russians have talked to various factions of Chechenya.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 26 Feb 2012 23:04

jamwal wrote:

Anyhow, from your Wiki link;

In 2007 Yasin Malik and his party launched a peaceful campaign known as Safar-i-Azadi (Journey to Freedom).[5] This journey was to create an atmosphere for anti-Indian agitations among public which lasted for one year and during it, Yasin Malik and his colleagues visited about 3500 towns and villages of Kashmir.[6] Stone pelting and sporadic attacks by Muslim majority of Kashmir of security forces have increased hence forth. In November 2009, Kashmiri Pandits were reported to have been subjected to death threats and attacks; the Hurriyat Conference never responded by promising them security.[7] In January 2010, Yasin asked Kashmiri Pandit migrants not to return to their homes in the Kashmir valley, but was arrested a few days later.

Jamwal ji , what is your point?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 26 Feb 2012 23:07

>> But I doubt if there is any Democratic Nation state which can afford to behave in a similar way until unless it is ready to commit genocide.

There are at least two problems in this sentence:

1. Punishing Yasin Malik and others like him is not genocide.

2. Punishing people who have killed others is not inconsistent with democracy.

I don't know what you are talking about.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 27 Feb 2012 00:02

Not talking to insurgent anti-national groups = genocide

.
It seems to me that UndiTV has done its job well

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 27 Feb 2012 01:42

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012 ... 58619.html
Central & South Asia
Pakistan demolishes Bin Laden's hideout
Troops conduct night operation to tear down compound where al-Qaeda chief was hiding when US Navy Seals killed him.
"Pakistani security forces have begun demolishing the compound where al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was killed in a covert US raid in May, police and witnesses said.
The operation began after dark on Saturday in the northwestern garrison town of Abbottabad.
"Two bulldozers are engaged, the demolition work is in progress. It is being done by security forces, including troops," a police official at the scene told the AFP news agency.
A senior administration official said the third floor of the three-storey building, which includes bin Laden's room, had been pulled down and work was under way to remove the structure.
"We hope it will be over by [Sunday] morning," he said.
Karim Khan, a senior police official in the town, told Reuters that the demolition was a joint operation of the local administration and security forces.
Residents said the compound was surrounded by a heavy contingent of troops and at least five construction cranes.
"They installed heavy lights around the building and started first demolishing the boundary walls. The area was completely cordoned off and there was no media in the area," Momin Khan, a local resident, said......."
Gautam

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Feb 2012 02:06

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 048444.cms

The Pakistani establishment, in a bid to carry forward its peace plan on Kashmir in the wake of internal crisis in that country, has invited leaders of both the factions of All-Party Hurriyat Conference to Islamabad for talks to explain its "changed position" on Kashmir. A source close to the Hurriyat said there is a move to shelve the Kashmir issue "for the time being" in the wake of internal political crisis in Pakistan. {taqqiya}

Shabir Shah, while expressing satisfaction over the outcome of the meeting, said, "The Pakistani leaders reiterated their moral, political and logistical support to the Kashmir cause.''

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Feb 2012 02:09

darshhan wrote:
Sir, you or me as an individual can take such a hard stand.But I doubt if there is any Democratic Nation state which can afford to behave in a similar way until unless it is ready to commit genocide.And this talking with opponents is not unique to India.If you construe it as weakness then I doubt if there is one strong nation on this planet.Israel talks regularly to palestinian outfits.America talks to taliban.Infact throughout its history it has been talking with its enemies/opponents from barbary states to Geronimo.It talked with North Vietnam govt which was directly responsible for the killing of more than 50000 americans.Russians have talked to various factions of Chechenya.

Don't try to obfuscate India's surrender by bringing in irrelevant issues. Yes, one does talk to enemies, but only when you assert yourself. It must be from a position of strength. Israel talks to Palestinians about giving camel crap drops, not about Israel's sins. At best Palestinians can hope to be recognized as human beings, I mean thats the best they'll get assuming Israel makes the requisite "concessions". In contrast, India is talking the harried rats from a position of weakness. They demand that India get out of Kashmir, and in this they have the backing of TSP and US and China. Can you even fathom the difference between the 2 situations?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Feb 2012 02:20

This is a credible and interesting article on Balochistan. Everyone should read:

http://www.dawn.com/2012/02/26/balochis ... story.html

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 27 Feb 2012 02:51

CRamS wrote: In contrast, India is talking the harried rats from a position of weakness. They demand that India get out of Kashmir, and in this they have the backing of TSP and US and China. Can you even fathom the difference between the 2 situations?

What do you mean by when you say India is talking to the Rats from position of weakness?
The last I checked it was India India who controlled Kashmir! Yes, they would like to have a piece of Kashmir pie, but are we going to give it to them?

The answer is NO!

The axiom here is that what they can't win through war, they can not get through talk!

The rest is BS!

Arav · Post by **Arav** » 27 Feb 2012 03:50

ISI-linked businessman claimed the financial backing of mystery Indian political family

In his letter to BSI, Mr. Ijaz promised he had secured $50 million from a “large Indian family that has real estate investments around the world, including over 40 apartment units in Las Vegas' newest condominium towers [as well as] Dubai and India.” “The head of the family,” he went on, “is an important political personality from the State, where the family resides”.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 27 Feb 2012 04:50

g.sarkar wrote:http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012 ... 58619.html
Central & South Asia
Pakistan demolishes Bin Laden's hideout <snip>

I would have preferred a title - Pakistan OBLiterates OBLs hideout to remove all traces of its Duplicity.

In accordance with standard fauji practice, all evidence will be 'hosed down' so that in the next few years we will have the slew of conspiracy theories being spun on Paki TV about OBL's shadaat. I wonder who is the lawful owner of the land on which this building was sitting. After demolishing, will the land 'revert' back to this person? What are the odds that there will be a shrine for the Sheikh or a mosque at that location, especially after the 2014 withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan?

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 27 Feb 2012 05:03

Arav wrote:ISI-linked businessman claimed the financial backing of mystery Indian political family

In his letter to BSI, Mr. Ijaz promised he had secured $50 million from a “large Indian family that has real estate investments around the world, including over 40 apartment units in Las Vegas' newest condominium towers [as well as] Dubai and India.” “The head of the family,” he went on, “is an important political personality from the State, where the family resides”.

This bloke seems like a pretender trying to punch way over his weight by name dropping. Isn't he cooling his heels in London or something like that? Could it be that he is avoiding the US too? Or is this one of the concerted Paki efforts to discredit his shenanigans in Pakistan.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Feb 2012 05:05

SBajwa wrote:
"I have been given a lot of love here,"
Drop Meira kumar at LET safehouse!!!! and whole India will be safe!!

Sickening. Her late father exemplified how SDREs will ream the TFTAs, in 1971.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 27 Feb 2012 05:12

KLNMurthy wrote: Sickening. Her late father exemplified how SDREs will ream the TFTAs, in 1971.

Err... wasn't it because of the Iron Lady's stance that the TFTAs got reamed? I don't recall any position taken by Jagjivan Ram in the build up to 1971, or am I mistaken?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Feb 2012 05:35

RCase wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: Sickening. Her late father exemplified how SDREs will ream the TFTAs, in 1971.
Err... wasn't it because of the Iron Lady's stance that the TFTAs got reamed? I don't recall any position taken by Jagjivan Ram in the build up to 1971, or am I mistaken?

Jagjivan Ram was Defense Minister in '71. Waging a war is not a one-person job. By your logic, you'd also be quibbling if I had said Maneckshaw or Arora had taught Pakis what's what, since even more than Jagjivan Ram, those officers would not have taken any position either, only obeyed orders.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 27 Feb 2012 06:42

Dipanker wrote: The axiom here is that what they can't win through war, they can not get through talk!
The rest is BS!

Well said!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Feb 2012 06:59

Back-door talks with Pak: India says no

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 27 Feb 2012 07:07

Pakistani held on charge of BPL spot-fixing (or in other words, Peaceful Pakistani Prevented From Purveying His Pusiness)

http://newagebd.com/newspaper1/sports/51658.html

The Bangladesh Cricket Board on Sunday detained a Pakistani citizen for his suspected involvement in spot-fixing during the ongoing Bangladesh Premier League. He was handed over to the police.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Feb 2012 08:02

darshhan wrote:
CRamS wrote:
So unless I am missing something, all indications are that Indian govt has decided to appease the rats in one way or another.

When America talks to its enemies , it is called engagement but when India does the same with its disaffected citizens , it becomes appeasement.Strange indeed are the ways of the world.

Darshanji. Hold your horses. Shut up and bow your head. You missed a key quote:

CRamS wrote:even US has accepted the need to keep TSP happy, there is no way India can

You see, when even the US is unable to do something, India, an avowedly weaker and inferior nation cannot hope to get anywhere. "No way!"

Instead of arguing, you need to understand the superiority and inferiority of people and nations. Once you understand the pecking order, the truth will become clear to you. When a superior nation can't do something, a nation of inferior beings must not even try, or be mocked for trying. There are some things that the US does, out of its power and inherent strength. Pipsqueaks are well advised to shut up and put up. And attempting something that the US has not attempted is doomed to failure.

A person such as yourself, who is unable even to see the world the way the world should be see has no business piping up and arguing.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 27 Feb 2012 09:14

^^Indeed, there are a lot of resident uncle Toms in India and nonresident ones preaching from the US of A too, funny how they don't realize their intellectual slavery.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Feb 2012 09:44

The degree to which various people imagine that the US will save the world and where the US fails others will fail is astounding.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 27 Feb 2012 09:55

Shiv saar:

<This might be OT and I will xpost this elsewhere if need be>

Here is an awesome book written by Richard Crasta on the same MUTU phenomena:
http://www.richardcrasta.com/impressing_the_whites.htm

worth a read IMO, exposes the socio-economic reasons for the sorry mental state of many of our citizens (saw it posted by a blogger sometime back (i think it was Sandeep)

)

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Feb 2012 10:25

Chira Chiri ka Khel
Gilani to give Pasha Chauthi Baari

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani is seriously considering offering extension in service to the ISI DG Lt-Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha for his ‘meritorious services’ for the country.
Well-placed government and military sources told The Nation on Sunday that the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) director general, whose second extended term too expires next month, might be given another extension in service because of the ‘critical challenges to the national security’.
They dismissed media reports that Pasha was being appointed as director general of the Strategic Plans Division (SPD) the body that controls the country’s nuclear arsenal saying that SPD’s was a highly technical job being looked after well by the incumbent director general Lt-Gen (r) Khalid Ahmad Kidwai.
Pasha, who took over the agency in October 2008 just a month before the Mumbai attacks of 26/11 and has served as the ISI DG for three-and-half years, reached the age of retirement in 2010 and has already been given two extensions. His second one-year extension given last year expires on March 18.
Sources were of the view that Prime Minister Gilani has already shown his inclination in giving extension to Gen Pasha. They said that Gilani was ‘personally impressed’ the way Pasha had devoted himself to defending the country from critical internal and external security challenges since he assumed the office of ISI DG.
Sources said the prime minister has been vocal in supporting Gen Pasha, claiming he (PM) has also taken on board President Asif Ali Zardari on the issue of Pasha’s extension. They were of the view that Gilani believes that certain media outlets had created some misunderstandings related to ISI DG and army chief by overplaying the memogate scam, but those were later removed. The prime minister, they said, was also convinced that some US agencies were actively involved in backing media campaign to malign armed forces and security agencies including the ISI to achieve certain objectives.

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 27 Feb 2012 10:25

useful reading - http://www.stratfor.com/geopolitical-di ... y-dynamics

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 27 Feb 2012 10:32

Over the last few weeks there has been increase in general violence, sectarian violence, political violence, terrorism including suicide bombings both in afghanistan and pakistan, religious violence have all increased.

Generally there is uptick in violence and terrorism during spring and then into summer. With winter almost over in pakistan and afghanistan, we should expect dramatic increase in violence in the upcoming days/weeks especially considering Puki jihadis look, feel, talk, sound, behave like they smelled blood of unkil sam. The voices from the US media are not encouraging either; the battle fatigue is quite evident across all levels - people, media, politicos and armed forces.

As election time nears the increasing casualties will be a definite election issue that will be taken advantage by pukis and jihadis.

It is both the US (21st century hyper power) vs rag tag militia on one plane and US (the torchbearer of white christian nations/peoples) vs islamists on the other that makes US defeat incredible. What a massive f'up by these idiots.

Come to think of it, is the nuke deterrance already at play here ? even against US?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Feb 2012 10:36

True legacy of the Prophet
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... he-prophet

Muslims claim that his message is eternal. Is that a realistic expectation? How do we reconcile what he did in the tribal life of the 7th century Arabia with the demands of the 21st century? This will be only possible if we look beyond the superficial ritualistic aspects of his life. Travel by camels, eating dates as a staple food, wearing the kind of clothes that he did, methods of war and peace, norms of inter-tribal relations of his day cannot be simply imposed today. So, what is his core message that will last for eternity? I believe timelessness of his message can only be found by going beyond the perfunctory review of his teachings.Promise of capitalism has failed. The trickledown economics does not work for the majority of the people on this planet where almost three-fourths of them live in poverty, while a few have amassed enormous wealth; where multinational companies control the world resources. What will be his stand on feudalism, current trade practices, unlimited private property holdings, maximisation of profit for shareholders by exploiting the workers? Will he approve of a system that allows a minority of people to hold large amounts of land and property enabling them to subjugate the majority?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Feb 2012 11:22

darshhan wrote:]

Jamwal ji , what is your point?

Point being that these so called disaffected Kashmiris do not deserve the importance being given to them. That veggie scare crow Malik hasn't even been punished properly for his crimes yet. Him, Gilani and other Rats are regularly acting as conduits for Paki money and terrorists in to the valley. They are organising anti-Hindu, anti-India protests on made up stories and worse. Turds like them need to be tried and executed for treason. Executing such traitors will send a strong message to other wannabe Ghazis. That's when India can afford to hold talks from a position of strength. For me, these talks are just another extension of Monkey's Asha bs.

Last post on this topic in this thread. Please continue in J&K or some other thread if you want.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 27 Feb 2012 11:45

Jhujar wrote:Chira Chiri ka Khel
Pasha, who took over the agency in October 2008 just a month before the Mumbai attacks of 26/11 and has served as the ISI DG for three-and-half years,

Interesting that the pakis are following a date counting mechanism pegged to the Mombaai encidant.
I thought they wanted the world to forget it and move on.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Feb 2012 11:50

If there was one thing left the Pakis hadn't tried Pakifying...

In November 2000, the international press reported an amazing find: a mummy, which was claimed to be that of an ancient Persian princess, over 2,600 years old. She was encased in a carved stone coffin, inside a wooden sarcophagus and was wearing an exquisite golden crown and mask.

Police raid

The mummy was found in a house in the desert region of Pakistan during a police raid, after a tip-off that it was to be illegally sold on the antiquities black market for $20m, and smuggled out of Pakistan. The Persian princess was immediately hailed as a major archaeological discovery. In fact, no Persian mummy had ever been found before, let alone a royal mummy. Mummification to preserve bodies had always been thought to be unique to the ancient Egyptians.

False evidence

However, there were some strange puzzles about this beautiful princess. The inscriptions on the mummy's breastplate had some grammatical errors. And there were peculiarities in the way she had been mummified. Several detailed operations common to Egyptian mummifications had been omitted. So it began to look like the mummy was not the princess she was supposed to be; perhaps she was a more ordinary ancient mummy dressed up to be a Persian princess by forgers trying to increase her value.

Murderous trail

As scientists investigated more closely, it became clear that this mummy had an even darker history. Computerised tomography (CT) scans and X-ray photographs of the body inside the mummy revealed that this was no ancient corpse but a woman who had died in the recent past, and that her neck was broken. An autopsy confirmed that this woman may indeed have been murdered to provide a body for the fakers to mummify - a body they intended to pass off as an ancient mummy for millions of dollars on the international art black market. And, finally there is evidence to suggest that they have done this not once but three times, raising the spectre of a mummy factory and the terrifying thought of yet more victims.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 27 Feb 2012 12:46

^^^
Coincidentally, the same item also showed up on cracked.com's website today under an article titled: "5 Ridiculous Archeological Frauds (That Fooled the World)". The Paki entry showed up as #1.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19672_5- ... ld_p2.html

People started to get suspicious after the inscription looked like it was written by someone who'd only attended a basic course in Persian. Later analysis showed that the woman was only dead for two years or so and had been murdered, possibly to make the mummy. She hasn't been identified yet.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 27 Feb 2012 12:53

^^^ It is the Porki version of Slumdog Millionaire : Slumpig Mummy. Although the protagonist never lived to tell their tales and no one became a millionaire, True napaki ishtyle onlee

AKalam · Post by **AKalam** » 27 Feb 2012 13:23

lakshmikanth wrote:Shiv saar:

<This might be OT and I will xpost this elsewhere if need be>

Here is an awesome book written by Richard Crasta on the same MUTU phenomena:
http://www.richardcrasta.com/impressing_the_whites.htm

worth a read IMO, exposes the socio-economic reasons for the sorry mental state of many of our citizens (saw it posted by a blogger sometime back (i think it was Sandeep) )

Thanks for the link, if the book is as good as the excerpts in the link, I think it should be made required reading for adolescent students world wide, in non-white and white countries, specially for 2nd generation non-white children of immigrants living in white countries, many of whom seem to be insecure about their identity. May be cliches like "we are our own worst enemy" and "we can change the world if we change ourselves" are useful after all. Sorry for the OT post.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 27 Feb 2012 14:11

I cant believe someone wrote this in BRF. Heights of arrogance, I would say

What are SDREs if TSP manages to "defeat" US in Afghanistan?

But behold, you will see that India will keep Kashmir and US leaves Afghanistan. Strange are the ways of the world and God