India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 28 Feb 2012 22:24

By all means, let Udayakumar sue the PM of India. Let the law takes it course.
Let the truth come out.

But lookie lookie here:

Posting here just in case the original link suddenly vanishes!

Original link:
http://www.folkkampanjen.se/milkas_konf ... 12.04.html

BTW "Folkkampanjen" = Peoples Campaign

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Feb 2012 01:27

Have they named the four NGOs or is that all top secret?

Arav · Post by **Arav** » 29 Feb 2012 03:26

Ranjan Mathai to take up NSG membership issue at Vienna meet

Although several countries feel India as a NPT non-signatory should not be given membership, civil nuclear technology giants such as U.S., France and Russia have promised to back its bid as they feel its case is different from that of Pakistan and Israel.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Feb 2012 05:26

**Deleted**

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Feb 2012 07:32

This Daily Mail rant shows that that PM's missive has struck at the right place.

'Foreign hand is back': In throwback to Indira Gandhi era, PM blames U.S. and European lobbies for funding anti-nuclear protests

Taking a leaf out of Indira Gandhi's book, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has exhumed the 'foreign hand' bogey blaming it for putting the brakes on both the Kudankulam nuclear power project in Tamil Nadu and the commercialisation of GM food crops.
Going ballistic against people's groups in an interview which will appear in the journal Science on Friday, Singh alleged that NGOs opposed to the nuclear power project were funded by foreign countries.
In the 1970s, Indira Gandhi used to conveniently blame the 'foreign hand' for all ills plaguing her tenure as Prime Minister. She even justified the imposition of Emergency on this pretext.

Notice the language here:

Virtually declaring a war on civil society activists, Singh said: 'The atomic energy programme has run into difficulties because these NGOs, mostly I think based in the United States, don't appreciate the need for our country to increase energy supply.'
The PM was alluding to the stalled commissioning of the 1,000-MW, Russian-aided Kudankulam nuclear power plant.
Continuing his scathing attack on voluntary bodies for opposing the government's pet projects, the PM observed: 'There are NGOs, often funded from the United States and Scandinavian countries, which are not fully appreciative of the development challenges that our country faces.'
Singh backed his government's resolve to develop nuclear power as well as biotechnology in India, despite the opposition from various quarters.
He said he saw a major role for nuclear energy even after the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan in March 2011

Look at the virtol reserved for Indira Gandhi:

Late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was known for using the 'foreign hand' bogey extensively.
She reportedly blamed all ills afflicting India on the 'foreign hand', which in those days usually meant U.S. spy agency the CIA.
Not surprisingly, India’s Iron Lady cited the foreign hand to declare the infamous
Emergency in 1975.

Look at the experts lined up to counter the PM:

'The PM's statement is complete falsehood. We are not funded by any foreign source. The ministry of home affairs knows this because it has audited financial records of scores of NGOs and Church-affiliated organisations in Kanyakumari, Nagercoil and Tuticorin in the past few weeks and found no evidence,' Udayakumar pointed out.
'It is surprising why the PM is refusing to acknowledge that the people of this country have a mind of their own,' he added.
The remarks evoked a sharp response from other members of the civil society as well.
'There isn't an iota of evidence that foreign funding and nationals are instigating the anti-nuclear agitation. It is totally indigenous and has deep roots among the people. The only foreigners in the area are Russian personnel invited by the Nuclear Power Corporation,' Praful Bidwai of the Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace said.
Eminent scientist Dr Pushpa Mittra Bhargava also felt amazed at the statement: 'I am surprised the Prime Minister believes that the U.S. will fund NGOs that would oppose nuclear power projects and GM foods. He must surely know that the U.S. has been the biggest supporter of India's investment in nuclear power so that it can sell its reactors - for which there is no market in the U.S. - to India.'

But then I guess there's really no cause for surprise. Even senior posters on this thread think Indian nuclear scientists are a bunch of incompetent fools. Incidentally Dr Mittra is a molecular biologist but of course she's more credible in nuclear matters than say Kakodkar.

My only feeling is that this is going to get far worse before it gets better. We talk about attack on Indian interests. It would be really unfortunate if we couldn't even recognise such an attack when it takes place. IMHO, this is one of those times when political differences/opinions should be secondary to Indian interests. But hey, who am I to know right?

PS: And yes this piece of trash by the great Vandana Shiva of the Navdayna Trust seems straight out of BRF: "Sadly the foreign hand today in India's domestic policy is the Prime Minister himself".

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Feb 2012 08:59

4 NGOs booked for funding protests

Deccanherald not beating around the bush here ( being communal??) :

Coming down severely on four Christian NGOs based in South Tamil Nadu, the Centre on Tuesday registered cases against them for alleged violation of the Foreign Contributions Regulation Act (FCRA) in the wake of the struggle committee against the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project (KNPP) intensifying their stir.

Officially, the names of these four NGOs are not being disclosed, as it is a sensitive matter pertaining to the minorities, obfuscating the otherwise good work they are doing to society at large. However, sources said that one of the NGOs is allegedly linked to the Catholic Church in Tuticorin and another NGO is suspected to have indirect links with S P Udayakumar, heading the anti-KNPP stir.

Right. So, names not being disclosed since it is a minority NGO. Secularism ki jai!!

Some weeks back, Home Ministry officials had swooped down on these NGOs premises as part of verifying the audited accounts of 12 NGOs, sources said. In that process some alleged discrepencies were noted in the above four NGOs, wherein large amount of cash received for charity work had been allegedly “misappropriated” and diverted. Investigators believe that those amounts could have been channelled to sustain the anti-Kudankulam nuclear plant campaign.

And the worthy who was given the gatepass. Guy is not a suited-booted guy and so, must be a innocent poor guy onlee

:

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Feb 2012 09:09

According to PMANE quislings,"nature lover" Herr Hermann was only interested in dolphins and tree-planting and was not involved in "funding " the protests (how come they're so sure?).Yet chief rent-boy Udayakumar admits that Herr Hermann is an active anti-nuclear protester who participated in struggles across the globe and took part in protests at Jaitapur! They also have no explanation as to why Herr Hermann's laptop contained numerous pics of the KKM N-plant,protests at KKM and Jaitapur (why was he there,looking for more dolphins and trees?).Meanwhile the hotel staff of the rathole that Herr Hermann used as his hideout,said that he left during the early morning and returned late at night and that they had no idea where he went or what he was upto.From the knee-jerk admissions by rent-boy Udayakumar that Herr Hermann was actively involved in anti-N protests globally,HH must be a very important figure in the global NGO movement hiding in the shadows,discreetly travelling to foreign lands and organising by stealth the strategy and tactics and local methods of protest to destabilise N-plants such as KKM.

The garb of a down and out backpacker is one of the most frequent guises which foreign agents use to penetrate a foreign country.Being disguised as poor travellers,they most often receive sympathy from the natives and they blend in easily amongst the simple folk of a country like India.Key surveillance activities involve our coastlines,port and naval/military installations,underwater characteristics,and the setting up of local sleeper cells .Just recently,a Paki spy was arrested in Delhi,a long-time resident in the country.India,which is a mecca for the global backpacker crowd who come here for cheap drugs,sex and the sun,are destroying states like Goa and the Himalayan valleys where it is alleged that they control/are the drug mafia.Past time for the GOI to crack down massively upon such criminal "tourists" and the likes of "tree-lover" Herr Hermann!

The Quislings are now planning to meeting the CM and will try to blackmail the GOTN threatening dire protests if she goes ahead with the green signal to the centre.The moment of truth has arrived.

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Feb 2012 09:11

Sum that's the de rigour dress code for Greens in Oierope. Suited booted is a strict Nein, Nein since it represents the establishment - in this case the nooklear establishment.

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Feb 2012 09:16

Philip wrote:According to PMANE quislings,"nature lover" Herr Hermann was only interested in dolphins and tree-planting and was not involved in "funding " the protests (how come they're so sure?).Yet chief rent-boy Udayakumar admits that Herr Hermann is an active anti-nuclear protester who participated in struggles across the globe and took part in protests at Jaitapur! They also have no explanation as to why Herr Hermann's laptop contained numerous pics of the KKM N-plant,protests at KKM and Jaitapur (why was he there,looking for more dolphins and trees?).Meanwhile the hotel staff of the rathole that Herr Hrermann used as his hideout,said that he left during the early morning and returned late at night and that they had no idea where he went or what he was upto.

I hope the direct connection between Jaitapur and the current KKNPP is not forgotten when (not if but when) the turns comes for the Jaitapur agitation, just around the time when the French get down to building the plant. Selective amnesia at that time would be very unfortunate indeed. The same anti-national forces which are stirring up trouble in TN will be and IMO already are behind the Jaitapur agitation which has already claimed one unfortunate life.

The moment of truth has arrived.

^^^
+100

Not just for GoTN but IMVHO for everybody who professes to have Indian interests in their hearts. This is bigger than petty political fights, likes/dislikes. In other words this is an issue which, again IMVHO, is far more important than personal "moral compasses".

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 29 Feb 2012 09:17

Venky Vembu writes in Firstpost about Church role in Kudankulam

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/churc ... 28719.html

The NGOs that are at the centre of the latest action haven’t been named, but they are believed to be those associated with Bishop Yvon Ambroise, the Tuticorin church leader, who has been active in mobilising popular support for the protests at Kudankulam.

Two of the NGOs associated with Ambroise – the Tuticorin Diocese Association (TDA) and the Tuticorin Multipurpose Social Service Society (TMSSS) – have been working in the area of fishermen’s livelihood, and their support for the anti-nuclear agitation draws on the fears to the fisherfolks’ livelihood from the nuclear power plant.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Feb 2012 09:27

Yet amit you don't feel that ==Vandana Shiva's rants to BRF is putting aside likes and dislikes and rallying round the flag?

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Feb 2012 09:43

ramana wrote:Yet amit you don't feel that ==Vandana Shiva's rants to BRF is putting aside likes and dislikes and rallying round the flag?

But tell me Ramana, do you disagree that similar rants against the PM has been uttered on BRF on more than one occasion by multiple posters on multiple threads?

As I've maintained several times, there's much that is wrong with this govt's handling of various issues that affect the country. And much is left to be desired in terms of the PM's leadership qualities. But till date nobody has been able to prove that whatever actions, missteps, gaffes - name it what you will - done by Manmohan Singh was due to him catering to foreign interests, lobbies.

In such a situation is it really wrong to point out that there is eerie similarity to what a rank anti-national like that Shiva lady says and what we've seen posted here? (I'm willing to believe much of that was due to a lack of understanding of the implications of what was being written).

But on a higher level I get you're point. I will stop pointing out such "similarities" on this thread any more. I sincerely believe this is very important and concerted last ditch attack on India's nuclear future and we do need to close ranks.

As Dick Cheney once said, "They may be B'tards but they are our B'tards".

I believe the issue is not just about the a peeved US orchestrating delay in a Russian project, it's more to do with trying to right the "wrong" perpetrated by the junior Bush.

Cheers!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Feb 2012 10:18

I was sure you would see it that way.

I will stop pointing out such "similarities" on this thread any more. I sincerely believe this is very important and concerted last ditch attack on India's nuclear future and we do need to close ranks.

The pressure to sign up against Iran.
The drumbeat of heart Burns articles.
The Cardinal point on the Italian tanker job.
The use of NGOs to derail the energy security program.
The pressure to buy Arabian oil despite Indian refineries use of sour crude from Iran.

All are coming together on many fronts.

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Feb 2012 10:39

ramana wrote:I was sure you would see it that way.

I will stop pointing out such "similarities" on this thread any more. I sincerely believe this is very important and concerted last ditch attack on India's nuclear future and we do need to close ranks.
The pressure to sign up against Iran.
The drumbeat of heart Burns articles.
The Cardinal point on the Italian tanker job.
The use of NGOs to derail the energy security program.
The pressure to buy Arabian oil despite Indian refineries use of sour crude from Iran.

All are coming together on many fronts.

Oh Ramana, I've seen it that way for a long time. Let's just say it's the nature of what I do for a living that has allowed me to grow rather sensitive antlers for these things.

And this is precisely why I think we get distracted on this forum with political fistfights to the detriment of taking our eyes off the ball. It's my personal belief (of course as a relatively junior Abdul poster on this forum) that certain threads should be focussed on the issue. Politics should remain in the threads dedicated to politics, IMVHO.

This is one of the threads where I think the focus should remain where it's intended to be. Trying to be too clever by half by, for example, calling the PM, Man Mohan, does nothing to further understanding of the issues involved, I feel. As someone said in a similar context, most of it is hogwash.

Sanatanan · Post by **Sanatanan** » 29 Feb 2012 10:45

amit wrote: . . .
I hope the direct connection between Jaitapur and the current KKNPP is not forgotten when (not if but when) the turns comes for the Jaitapur agitation, just around the time when the French get down to building the plant. Selective amnesia at that time would be very unfortunate indeed. The same anti-national forces which are stirring up trouble in TN will be and IMO already are behind the Jaitapur agitation which has already claimed one unfortunate life.
. . .

Here is my two cents worth, offered with due respect even if it is in a slightly discordant note amidst the present discussion:

I hold the view that technology-wise India's long term interests will be best served by constructing India designed and engineered PHWRs/FBRs at Jaitapur and everywhere else in India, and not French (or any other foreign) LWRs [which, in spite of being alien, have so far not even been subjected to competitive tender bids, a concession/trade-protection that ought to be given only for indigenous efforts, particularly as DAE/GOI is the sole agency entrusted with the task of nuclear technology development in India. I believe that even DAE/GOI would generally be required to place major orders for systems and components used in the npps being constructed by them, on the basis of tender bids].

Edit: "system" corrected to read "systems"

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Feb 2012 11:03

Sanatanan wrote:Here is my two cents worth, offered with due respect even if it is in a slightly discordant note amidst the present discussion:

I hold the view that technology-wise India's long term interests will be best served by constructing India designed and engineered PHWRs/FBRs at Jaitapur and everywhere else in India, and not French (or any other foreign) LWRs [which, in spite of being alien, have so far not even been subjected to competitive tender bids, a concession/trade-protection that ought to be given only for indigenous efforts, particularly as DAE/GOI is the sole agency entrusted with the task of nuclear technology development in India. I believe that even DAE/GOI would generally be required to place major orders for system and components used in the npps being constructed by them, on the basis of tender bids].

Sanatanan ji,

On the basis of reading your many posts on this thread, I'm firmly convinced that you have far more deeper understanding of the subject matter than I do. Please note I'm saying this with utmost sincerity.

However, I feel there are two issues involved here. The first is developing indigenous capability, be it in PHWRs/FBRs or in the recent intriguing mention of local LWRs that we discussed some months ago.

The second issue IMO, is the power deficit that the nation is facing and the role of nuclear power in alleviating at least some of it.

As far as I know the local designs we have are maxed at 750 MW, while the reactors that are on table for import are 1000 MW and above. In such a situation it's my humble opinion, plants like the future (hopefully) Jaitapur complex and the present KKNP and the others planned, serve as a medium term solution to our electrical needs. And so, I feel, as long as they produce electricity it does not matter one bit if IAEA inspectors swarm around them.

Meanwhile our FB program is the long term goal which will be achieved but all indication show that it will still take some time due to various reasons which have been much discussed here.

I personally think as long as there is no sign or indication that there's been a deliberate move to go slow on local research and development, there's no cause for worry that we're trying to ramp up nuclear generation by importing reactors. The bonus is that they all come with yellow cake, thus freeing up our local supply considerably.

JMT

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 29 Feb 2012 11:13

Gospel of Asia biggest donor

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_fo ... or_1656332

With Figures in hundreds and thousands of crore!

List of top five states who are recipients of foreign contribution (2009-10)

States Rupees in crore

Delhi 1815.91 (!!) (Isn't it obvious?)
Tamil Nadu 1663.31
Andhra Pradesh 1324.87
Karnataka 982.96
Maharashtra 920.98

List of top five donor countries (2009-10)

Countries Rupees in crore

USA 3105.73
Germany 1046.30
UK 1038.68
Italy 583.47
Netherlands 509.46

List of top five donor agencies (2009-10)

Name of agencies Rupees in crore

Gospel for Asia Inc (USA) 232.71
Fundacion Vicente Ferre( Spain) 228.60
World Vision Global Centre(USA) 197.62
Compassion International (USA) 131.57
HCL Holdings Private Limited (Mauritius) 94.28

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Feb 2012 11:15

ramana wrote:I was sure you would see it that way.

I will stop pointing out such "similarities" on this thread any more. I sincerely believe this is very important and concerted last ditch attack on India's nuclear future and we do need to close ranks.
The pressure to sign up against Iran.
The drumbeat of heart Burns articles.
The Cardinal point on the Italian tanker job.
The use of NGOs to derail the energy security program.
The pressure to buy Arabian oil despite Indian refineries use of sour crude from Iran.

All are coming together on many fronts.

Not to mention Afghanistan soon to be at the mercy of Talibans/Pakistan as well attmept to exercise some kind of military leverage via Eurofighter. The Brit reacted really bad while Germans were cool about it. Lets not even mention the sudden influence of Saudis in Congress.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 29 Feb 2012 11:18

List of top five recipient agencies in India (2009-10)

Name of agencies Rupees in crore
World Vision of India ( Tamil Nadu) 208.94
Rural Development Trust , Ananthapur( Andhra Pradesh) 151.31
Shri Sevasubramania Nadar Educational Charitable Trust , Chennai ( Tamil Nadu) 94.28
Believers Church India ,( Kerala ) 88.45
Caruna Bal Vikas ( Tamil Nadu) 82.60

From above DNA link. Source: Home Ministry

Following Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's announcement that some NGOs are misusing foreign funds to fuel anti nuclear protests in India; the story gained momentum story with the government saying that it would furnish the proof of involvement of foreign funds in fomenting the anti-Koodankulum nuclear power plant protests in Tamil Nadu.

member_21708 · Post by **member_21708** » 29 Feb 2012 12:20

DNA investigations: Mining near N-site didn’t cease till '05

Published: Wednesday, Feb 29, 2012, 11:00 IST
The Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant (KKNPP) is mired in controversy now, but even work on the project began by violating Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) guidelines prohibiting mining activity within 5km of a nuclear power plant. India Cements was mining limestone 3km from the KKNPP site when excavation work for the plant began in 2001.

Though AERB stipulated that mining must end by 1994, the activity continued till November 2005 in an area comprising 219.975 hectares in Kudankulam village, according to documents with DNA.

Clearance for excavation work for the power plant was given in October 2001 "subject to compliance of stipulations like restriction on surface mining of limestone within exclusion and sterilised zone". However, the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) claims there was no violation of AERB guidelines as the board allowed surface scraping in March 2002 after construction work on the KKNPP began. "Since then, periodic inspection has been carried out to ensure the safety of the plant," the NPCIL said in its official response.

Though mining activities were going on in the region for over a decade before work on KKNPP began, they found no mention in the environment impact assessment carried out by the National Environmental Engineering and Research Institute for units 1 & 2 and in the expert committee's report later. The committee was formed last year to address safety issues related to KKNPP. "No mining activity is carried out by KKNPP," the panel’s report said.

"Since when did KKNPP become a mining company?" wondered activist Ravi Kumar, a resident of Kudankulam. "Despite AERB's inspections twice a year of the KKNPP site to verify compliance with regulatory requirements, none of the government reports mentions the mining activity."

It was only when the People's Movement Against Nuclear Energy (PMANE) raised the issue that the government admitted that mining by India Cements continued even after work on KKNPP began.

The latest report by the expert committee said India Cements was allowed to carry out mining activities considering the advanced technology adopted by it. However, when KKNPP was cleared in 1989, the AERB stipulated that mining must end by 1994. "Arrangements must be made to terminate the lease of the limestone quarry in 1994," said a clearance letter, which is in DNA's possession.

India Cements said the latest technology of surface scraping using a surface miner would be deployed to ensure that the topography remained intact and the atmosphere remained free of pollution. "With the use of these machines, limestone quarrying could be carried out without drilling and blasting," the expert committee's report said. The permission was granted in violation of AERB stipulations while sanctioning KKNPP.

Independent experts said mining should not have been allowed in the region as the KKNPP site is a possible Karst region - a vulnerable landscape. Geographical events that took place after 1998 and other reports prove that the place can turn into a Karst region. Karst is a special landscape formed by the dissolution of soluble rocks and is most vulnerable to natural hazards.

"Had the NPCIL known that the crust over which KKNPP is located has thinned out, it would not have allowed mining activity in the region at all," said Dr R Ramesh, who has written a book on the geology of Kudankulam. However, the NPCIL was adamant. "Since it is just a surface-scraping activity instead of mining involving blasting or drilling, it is not a matter of concern," it said.

Land for the Kudankulam project was acquired by the Tamil Nadu government. A government order (GO) issued to this effect in 1991 laid down conditions to be followed within 5km of the proposed plant. The GO granted permission to India Cements to continue with its mining operations till the lease expired in 1994 or when work on the project began, whichever was earlier.

When infrastructure work related to KKNPP began in 1993-94, India Cements sought permission to continue quarrying limestone. The department of atomic energy (DAE) issued a "no-objection certificate" to the state government in 1996, stipulating that only surface mining should be carried out in the areas identified within the plant boundary.

The mining lease was extended for five years by the state government in 1999 with conditions that collection of limestone must be done by surface scraping only and that India Cements must vacate the area when required by the DAE.

After the five-year period ended, India Cements made another request to continue its mining operations. It got an extension for a year following NPCIL's request to the AERB. The mining operations ceased in November 2005.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_dn ... 05_1656442

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 29 Feb 2012 12:20

DNA investigations: Kudankulam’s lurking dangers

Not everything is so black and white..

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 29 Feb 2012 13:49

Kailash wrote:DNA investigations: Kudankulam’s lurking dangers
Not everything is so black and white..

I read it.
But before I comment here is a new phrase - the burqa-ed stripper. ( like a stripper with burqa covering her face completely. Good things are there to see but not the face. We want to see the face also no? )

Some choice quotes:

various studies carried out by government agencies as well as experts suggest that the site is unsafe for a nuclear project.

There ambiguous "government agencies" - burqa-ed stripper.
Go on - tell us who these agencies are.

However, a 1982 study reported in a noted journal documents the presence of two slumps — the East Comorin and Colombo — in the vicinity of the site. A ‘slump’ is a massive agglomeration of loosely-bound sediment on the sea bed that may suffer large submarine landslides, causing mega-tsunamis

Another burqa-ed stripper.
Who are these strippers - god alone knows. They lurk in dark, they are a phantom, but once in a while they show cleavage and legs ......yum! also, how come burqa-ed strippers show up just before marriage is consummated?

Scroll down further in the report in you will find real names and real people from GoI, AERB, experts from IIT.

F*****g cowards!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Feb 2012 14:05

One has to view the current imbroglio and the N-controversy holistically and over a wider period/timeframe.During UPA-1,MMS was an ardent follower of the the US under Dubya Bush ("India loves you" ,during the worst period of the US in Iraq,etc.).For all his global failures,on one issue,that of an emerging India with whom Bush and the US wantd to engage constructively across the board,from economics to security issues,he was spot on.There was a genuine pro-active attitude from the US,and the controversial N-agreement (both within and wothout the nation) was signed between the US and India,Dr.Singh's legacy to posterity.

Unfortunately,it all started to unravel when the macro-vision of Dubya Bush,low on specifics,began to be viewed through the micro-vision scope.Bush meanwhile had retired into the sunset and a different occupant of the White House,B.Hussein O,hadn't the same genuine affetcion for India as his predecessor had.Both sides felt aggrieved,India over hurdles to the full implemntation of the N-agreement,angry at shifting goalposts,N-Liability watering down,and above all no progress on the prosecution of the perpetrators of 26/11,still residing in style and espousing vitriolic anti-Indian speeches in Pakistan,with the full encouragement of the ISI and Paki military.The US on its part felt very let down not only because India would not completely toe the line of following blindly the US's diastrous foreign policies,but also by its geriatric hags being dumped in the MMRCA contest,expecting the so-called "relationship" to be the deciding factor,not the capability of the aircraft and a shortlist decision taken firmly on "technical " grounds.How it could imagine any other decision from India given its abysmal track record as an unreliable friend,beats me.Day in day out we see in the media US attempts to put India down whether it be basmati exports to Iraq,trade with Iran,Obama ranting at outsourcing to India,etc.etc.

In the N-field,the refusal of the US to agree to India's N-Liability terms,passed by our parliament and the envy that Russia (neo-CW enemy) and (Old Europe) France would benefit the most in selling N-plants to us,was the last straw.The usual covert method of sabotaging our N-programme was used,using NGOs fine tuned in their agitations by "specialists" like Herr Hermann.In the Cold War days,"Peace Corps" volunteers used to do the dirty hands-on work for the CIA.These days it is more sophisticated, using the NGOs,the "Church",etc. to carry out local "resistance",with funds being overtly and covertly supplied to the storm troopers on the ground.As the underbelly of the protests gets exposed more and more by the day,the enormity of the masterplan emerges into the light.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Feb 2012 14:48

amit wrote:But till date nobody has been able to prove that whatever actions, missteps, gaffes - name it what you will - done by Manmohan Singh was due to him catering to foreign interests, lobbies.

All in good time amit, that will also happen. Spin has limits.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Feb 2012 14:54

Sanatanan wrote:Here is my two cents worth, offered with due respect even if it is in a slightly discordant note amidst the present discussion:

A meaningful India first approach Sir, wont find traction for those who are looking as India as market for their shoddy tech goods under the guise of "free power" and "poverty alleviation" and all that stuff.

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Feb 2012 16:24

Sanku wrote:Spin has limits.

Couldn't agree with you more. We've seen this being played out all the way from the nuclear test debate, to the Nuclear deal to the more recent Fukushima debate where someone loudly proclaimed right after the accident that "its only a matter of time before thousands of Japanese die of radiation poisoning." Last I checked more people died of a dam burst on account of the earthquake in the Fukushima Prefecture than from the Fukushima Daiichi accident.

In some cases it's not even spin any more. More of a fantasy %$# dream.

The current one will pan out to be just the same.

Call that statement a spin if you will.

Thank you.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Feb 2012 16:39

amit wrote:
Sanku wrote:Spin has limits.
Couldn't agree with you more. We've seen this being played out all the way from the nuclear test debate, to the Nuclear deal to the more recent Fukushima debate where someone loudly proclaimed right after the accident that "its only a matter of time before thousands of Japanese die of radiation poisoning." Last I checked more people died of a dam burst on account of the earthquake in the Fukushima Prefecture than from the Fukushima Daiichi accident.

In some cases it's not even spin any more. More of a fantasy %$# dream.

The current one will pan out to be just the same.

Call that statement a spin if you will.

Thank you.

Ah back to regular scheduled programming of putting words in others mouth I see, well natural considering that when one does not have anything to say oneself.

Keeping doing this and you will keep getting called out.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Feb 2012 18:53

amit & Sanku, please desist from unproductive personal exchanges.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Feb 2012 19:37

SSridhar wrote:Sanku, please desist from unproductive personal exchanges.

Well SSridhar, you have to stop the repeated personal attacks on members when they criticize the Congress or Man mohan or other political figures.

Let people support, criticizer, issues or public figures, but why make discussion a ground to go after people personally?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Feb 2012 19:51

Sanku, I do not need any advise from you on how I should discharge my administrative functions.

When I ask you, as an admin, to desist from doing something, I am not expecting a counter argument from you. If you don't like, you can go to better fora where admins may be more indulgent.

You have been issued a warning now.

Sanatanan · Post by **Sanatanan** » 29 Feb 2012 20:12

amit wrote: Sanatanan ji,

On the basis of reading your many posts on this thread, I'm firmly convinced that you have far more deeper understanding of the subject matter than I do. Please note I'm saying this with utmost sincerity.

However, I feel there are two issues involved here. The first is developing indigenous capability, be it in PHWRs/FBRs or in the recent intriguing mention of local LWRs that we discussed some months ago.

. . .
JMT

amit-ji,

Thank you for your response to my earlier post. I do appreciate it.

By way of explanations, I would like to present my view points as below:

1) The projected power deficit, requirement of 40,000 MWe nuclear power "additionality", uranium shortage, having visions of impossible-to-achieve-targets etc are, to my mind, exaggerated reasons to justify import of nuclear (and/or some other as-yet-unknown-to-me) technology. I carry the impression that in GOI (and perhaps even amongst the "thinking population" of our country) there is a significantly powerful segment that feels imported nuclear plants are better than indigenous ones. [Regretfully, as an aam-aadmi, not being privy to the internal workings of GOI, I will not able to present concrete evidence of this -- it is only my own conclusion based on how I see the nuclear deal is being sold to the country.] To me this negative view is not justified, neither should it be allowed to perpetuate. There is a saying in Tamil: (even) for a crow, its own offspring is as valuable and beautiful as a bird made of gold (if not more, I may add).

2) According to me, it is axiomatic that there is only a certain optimum rate at which industrialisation of a country can grow. It cannot be artificially speeded up, without causing major social and perhaps financial upheavals. For an analogy, I may cite a situation that could be visualised in the case of the LP rotor of a steam turbine having a large mass and roational inertia in a npp; as the turbine is rolled and brought up to full output level, its speed can only be increased at a reasonable controlled rate. Attempting to increase its speed at a faster rate via application of a steep step input of large quantity of steam to the turbine, will most likely to lead to destruction of the turbine through damage to the blades. If this axiom is accepted, then I believe that wholesale import and installation of alien npps, would not be the solution. Rather, concerted efforts combined with enlightened political, scientific and industrial leadership in promoting indigenous nuclear technology is likely to yield better results, even if it does not go at the break-neck speed that is being stipulated as a "requirement". It is a myth that imported npps can be constructed more quickly than indigenous ones. Not too many countries as yet have 1000 MWe or larger sized npp units; I think Canada, for instance, does not have one. Large sized (1000 MWe or more) npp units have their downside also, particularly in India, where, as of now, the Grids are not very large and stable. So, I feel construction of 1000 MWe plants may not be a panacea for our electricity demand situation. {I do concede that it may not be very easily possible to construct a 1000 MWe PHWR unless there is at least some low level of enrichment used in the input fuel.}

3) My worry and apprehension is that once the 'lollipop' of an imported npp is allowed into the country, the all-too-eager-to-import bureaucracy would further stifle indigenous development, because it is always the easier and "safer" (one's career/job protection-wise) path. My contention is that, notwithstanding all kinds of promises that indigenous development will "go hand in hand" with construction of imported reactors) the reality most likely would be that imports will flourish because it is the easier path, and local technology development will get much lower priority and will ultimately get killed. It is not by chance that good progress in indigenous nuclear technology development was achieved when technology control regime was imposed on India by the P5. Denial of easy solutions worked as a benevolent pressure on those who were charged with the job of developing technology.

4) In my understanding, use of enriched Uranium in LWRs for land based npps is not eco-friendly. To generate the same amount of MWe, more Uranium ore would be required to be mined for an LWR compared to the highly neutron economical PHWR with fuel reprocessing to reuse the Pu. It hardly matters whether this ore comes from India, or from anywhere else on the earth, it is still a sub-optimal use of natural resource, particularly when better solutions exist. In this case, fuel burn-up achievable (higher in LWR compared to PHWR) is not a good parameter for comparison. The only case in which a LWR could be justified is in naval propulsion where the plant needs to be very compact. It may be recalled that, during WW II, US started its atomic program with the object of developing a power plant for its submarines which could stay submerged for longer periods of time. At the end of the war, the same technology was developed further to construct land based reactors too, unmindful of the wastage in the use of natural resources - a typical American profligate way of doing things, even now, in many fields. We need not follow the American (or Western) model of nuclear technology development, particularly when we have achieved a measure of success with PHWRs. So, finally, in my view, the recent pronouncements about India developing LWRs for land based npps are unfortunate and short sighted. (OK, if it is for propulsion purposes).

5) When importing, almost all countires resort to protectionism of their strategic assets. Mr Obama, may perhaps consider himself duty bound to resist outsourcing of IT and other jobs to India. So why should we not take necessary steps to protect our family silver, namely indigenously developed nuclear technology?

I do realise that many may not agree with my views expressed above. Fair enough, since in our country widely differing view points and philosophies have co-existed for centuries -- for example dvaita, advaita and visishta-advaita schools of thought. Only, my second apprehensionis that the validity of my views may get conclusively proven (if at all!) only at a much later date -- by which time it might be too late to effect the necessary midcourse corrections.

6) Before I end this post, I would like to present a scenario. Suppose the nuclear deal had not been entered into. Then there would not have been this artificial "civilian-military separation". Then, the Koodangulam plant site would have carried the tag of "strategic property". In that situation, options available to GOI to overcome the recalcitrant and agitational approach of a few NGOs, and get the plant up and running might have been totally different and more effective.

JMT.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Feb 2012 20:30

SSridhar wrote:Sanku, I do not need any advise from you on how I should discharge my administrative functions.

When I ask you, as an admin, to desist from doing something, I am not expecting a counter argument from you. If you don't like, you can go to better fora where admins may be more indulgent.

You have been issued a warning now.

SSridhar-ji; If I may, please check your email.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Mar 2012 08:20

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 947435.ece

Why is State government mum on anti-Kudankulam stir?: Karunanidhi

Power crisis wouldn't have occurred had it helped in commissioning project

Coming out strongly in support of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant (KKNPP), DMK president M. Karunanidhi on Wednesday said there would have been no grave power crisis in Tamil Nadu had the State government helped scientists and engineers commission the project in Tirunelveli district in the last eight months.

While criticising the anti-Kudankulam agitators, Mr. Karunanidhi wanted to know the mystery and reason behind the State government remaining silent and extending support to the protesters who were up in arms against the KKNPP and other nuclear plants.

Pointing out that the nuclear plant at Kalpakkam, near Chennai, had been functioning without posing any danger all these years, the DMK chief said it was a mystery that there was indirect support for the protests against the Kudankulam project.

“Why has the State government been silent so far,” he asked, addressing a function organised in connection with the birthday of DMK treasurer M.K. Stalin.
‘Incongruous'

Mr. Karunanidhi found it incongruous that at a time when Tamil Nadu was reeling under a power crisis, the State government was silent over opposition to a project capable of generating 1000 MWe (first unit of Kudankulam).

He said the government had so far not answered the question whether it was instigating the people at and around Kudankulam against the project and extending them financial assistance. “The government is maintaining silence. But the world has realised it. Those who know the truth have to go through the anguish quietly. Though fully aware of the situation, some politicians are pretending as if they don't know anything. Some people are openly expressing their view, as they are left with no option.”
‘Uncertainty'

The DMK leader also wondered whether the protesters had the backing and blessings of the government or whether there was a deal between them since the person leading the protest had said he was ready to listen to the rulers of the State. Mr. Karunanidhi accused the government of creating uncertainty over the plant's future by allowing the protests to continue.

Noting that the protesters had rejected earlier reports on the plant's safety aspects, he said there now seemed to be a possibility of the project being allowed to function in the wake of a report submitted by the State government's expert committee. What could be the secret behind these developments, he wondered.

“Who are playing these games? Who are behind it? Though there is an argument that the Americans are behind it because it [the plant] was set up by the Russians, and other similar claims, it is clear that it is the Tamil people who are suffering because of this.”

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Mar 2012 08:45

Meanwhile, the famed renewable energy of which India is surplus in is also going great guns:

Maharashtra wind project a threat to ecology: panel

The Western Ghats Ecology Expert Panel (WGEEP) has slammed the Maharashtra government for clearing the Andhra Lake Wind Power Project promoted by Enercon (India) Limited.

Situated near the Bhimashankar Wildlife Sanctuary here, the 113 MW wind energy project has caused “substantial forest destruction and triggered large scale soil erosion,” according to the panel.

“This project should not have been cleared at all without completing the constitution of a Ecologically Sensitive Zone [ESZ] in the region and the implementation of the Forest Rights Act [FRA],” the panel, headed by noted ecologist Madhav Gadgil, said.

The Hindu has a copy of the report, which has not yet been made public by the Ministry of Environment and Forests, which constituted the panel in 2010.

The newspaper first reported about green activists' concern about the ecological impact of the project on April 10, 2011. The Rs.772-crore project, spread over 14 villages of the Khed and Maval talukas, covers 194.66 hectares of reserve forest land. The report noted that the region is in “biodiversity rich evergreen forests and home to Maharashtra's State animal, the Malabar Giant Squirrel.”

According to the panel, an ESZ should have been constituted in a 10 km radius of the Bhimashankar sanctuary, according to a 2002 resolution of the Indian Board of Wildlife (IBWL). While noting that no action was taken about the resolution, the panel states that the principal chief conservator of forests (PPCF) had written to the State government in 2004 asking for a proposal, but without any results.

“The Forest Department,” the report says, “is colluding with wind mill project operators in also illegally denying citizens access to these hills… There are many traditional forest dwellers on these hills. Not only are their rights under the Forest Rights Act not being recognised, they are being illegally restrained in their movements on hills they have inhabited for centuries.”

“Apart from substantial forest destruction [including Forest Department estimates of about 28,000 trees being cut] via wide roads cutting huge swathes through Reserve Forest, the wind mill project has triggered large scale erosion and landslides through poor construction of roads with steep gradients, and all this rubble is ending up on fertile farmland and in reservoirs of tributaries of the Krishna.”

amit · Post by **amit** » 01 Mar 2012 09:13

Sanatanan wrote:wrote...

Sanatanan ji,

Thank you for your detailed post. I'm not quoting it in full so as to not make this post unnecessarily long. You made six points, I'll try to give my responses in point form also with each point addressing the ones you made.

1)I respect your opinion on this even though it would seem I hold a different set of views. I fully understand the importance of indigenous development. While I’d prefer not to comment on the point that the projected power deficit or shortage of uranium are exaggerated as I don’t have sufficient information on this, I would like to say that I don’t think that it’s a given that foreign technology/designs would automatically kill local innovation or designs. In fact, I think a peek at how countries like France, Russia and who knows maybe even the US tackles and solves the considerable technological issues that are involved in both building a NPP and scaling it up to 1,500 MW would provide invaluable to our local scientists. IMHO isolationism was never a good breeding ground for innovation.

Of course your point about the feeling that imported maal is better than local ones gaining currency, among at least a section of Indians, is valid. And one could also conceivably think up scenarios whereby a pro-import lobby is created in the nuclear space, which tries to stifle local innovation. It is for this reason one needs to keep a close watch on what is happening in local research and design efforts. Any adverse effect on local efforts would be a telltale sign that things are getting out of control.

Bottomline, I personally don’t think that imported LWRs are a silver bullet that would solve all our energy and uranium needs. However, I also think there’s no need to have an irrational fear about such imports. Finally, even though I know it’s an imperfect analogy, I’d like to point out what a transformational change took place in our auto industry once foreign products (Maruti) was allowed. If that had not taken place, we conceivably still have been traveling around in Ambassador cars. While local is always preferred and should be the long term goal, in the short to medium term taking help/technology from others may not, IMO, be that harmful, provided adequate safeguards are provided to indigenous efforts.

2)I have to say, that my views on this differ considerably from yours. One of the reasons for this is because I think two different issues are wrongly combined here. One of them is the rate/speed of industrialization of the country. The other is the rate of absorption/development of nuclear technology in India.

As far as the rate of industrialization is concerned I don’t think the LP rotor of a steam turbine is the right analogy. Every single economic indicator would show you that the rate of industrialization or industrial output if you will is abysmally low in India considering her GDP level and state of the economy. It’s really criminal that in a country at the development level at which India is that the contribution of industry is so low. There are several factors responsible for that which are OT here. However, I would point out the one that is not OT and that is the massive power deficit that we have. That again brings us back to the why I personally think imported NPPs are required to provide – however small it may be – boost to power generation.

Regarding your point about the construction speed of imported NPPs vs indigenous ones, I certainly agree. However, the point is our local PHWRs are not yet scalable to 1000 MW and above which these NPPs are. And while your point about grid problems is valid I would point out that it should be more easier to funnel or control power to the grid from one 1000 MW plant than two 750MW plants. And if I’m not mistaken, it cost lesser to set up one 1000 MW plant than two 750MW plants.

I would also like to point out that your comparison with Canada – and in this context also to countries like Germany – is not really a valid apples to apples comparison. The reason I say this is two-fold. The first is because these nations are mature economies with steady state growth rates and are already power surplus nations. The second is that they have adequate supply of other sources of power, like hydel, coal and solar. In India’s case one needs to note – and unfortunately very little discussion on that point has occurred so far on BRF – that pithead prices of coal has made all the mega coal fired power projects planned by the likes of Reliance, the Adnani and Tatas virtually unviable.

That leaves us with the same problem – massive power deficit. IMO, a better apples to apples comparison for India would be China, another fast growing, energy deficit country. I’m sure you’re aware of just how ambitious their NPP strategy is. I’d also like to point out that they are merrily going about with the dual strategy of developing indigenous capability while importing Westinghouse reactors and copying whatever technology they can from them.

3) On this point I can understand your apprehension and I think there’s a very valid basis for it. However, I’m hopeful that our nuclear establishment, which has considerable say in this matter – according to my understanding – would, hopefully, prevent this. This also brings me back to the point I’ve made earlier: We need to remain vigilant to see how the tide flows. However, IMO our apprehensions of what may or may not happen shouldn’t be a reason for a lock down on foreign tech. Rather one should be more vigilant and take the necessary safeguards. Without evidence to the contrary I'm fully confident that our nuclear establishment can do this.

4) Regarding the eco friendliness of LWRs or not, I’ll take your word for it as I think you have a better understanding on the issue. However, my POV is that I really don’t care if more uranium is needed to be mined or not as long as it’s not mined in India. It’s my understanding that all these imported NPPs come with lifetime fuel guarantees so I’m not too concerned about whether they use more or less uranium. Your point about not following the profligate US way is very valid and I don’t see that happening unless we abandon PHWRs and go the LWR way. As long as local development of our three-stage fuel cycle goes on with the ultimate objective of having dozens of FBs, I don’t see why we should be apprehensive.

5) Again on a broader level I agree with your point about projecting our local technology. However, I do think that we may be looking at this issue from two different perspectives. Without claiming which is right or wrong, I would like to point out that I feel (please correct me if I’m wrong) you are looking at these imported NPPs as being a vital part of our strategic program, while I feel that the imported NPP strategy is not part of our strategic goals and is a medium term parallel pathway to address – at least in some measure - our power problem and uranium shortage (real or manufactured.

6) I’m not too sure how the “strategic property” tag could have given the GoI more options that what they already had for the Koodangulam plant. It should be obvious with the agitationists bringing up issues like reprocessing etc what their agenda is - it is not about the welfare of the simple folks living around the plant, they are just a diversion and canon fodder. In such a situation if a straight law and order approach was useful, I think the GoI could have moved forward faster. However, I think there’s an understanding in the GoI that there are deeper issues involved, which is why they are going slow on the issue. However, this is just my intrepration.

I do realise that many may not agree with my views expressed above. Fair enough, since in our country widely differing view points and philosophies have co-existed for centuries -- for example dvaita, advaita and visishta-advaita schools of thought. Only, my second apprehensionis that the validity of my views may get conclusively proven (if at all!) only at a much later date -- by which time it might be too late to effect the necessary midcourse corrections.

I’m very glad you’ve posted your views. IMO they constitute a very credible interpretation of how things could pan out. Ultimately we are desh bhakts who are trying understand how things shape up for India. We can only increase our knowledge and understanding if we discuss several different possibilities and hopefully come up with the correct interpretation which is a mix of different POVs.

Please do keep sharing your views. Even though they may not be the same as mine, they are certainly thought provoking and I find them very useful.

amit · Post by **amit** » 01 Mar 2012 09:18

SSridhar wrote:amit & Sanku, please desist from unproductive personal exchanges.

Thanks for the timely reminder, I'll try to keep unproductive exchanges down. From past experience I know things tend to go downhill when all unproductive posts are responded to.

It's just that it starts to get exasperating that every single point I make to other posters is branded as "spin" by one particular poster. I'd much rather appreciate a point by point rebuttal of any post of mine rather than this sniping.

member_21708 · Post by **member_21708** » 01 Mar 2012 09:34

KNPP protests’ money trail unearthed

Chennai, Feb 29, 2012, DHNS:

The Tamil Nadu police in Nagercoil have claimed that funds worth Rs 12 crore were allegedly channelled to fuel protests against the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project (KNPP) via four NGOs, now under Central scan, with help of German deportee Reiner Hermann.

The sensational disclosure came amid the Centre stepping up its offensive against anti-KNPP protesters. A laptop seized from Hermann reportedly contains vital information and photos of the deportee’s movements.

Hermann was sent back home from Chennai on Tuesday after cancelling his tourist visa. The state Q-Branch Police on Intelligence Bureau’s tip-off had tailed him for a month in Nagercoil, which uncovered his links with NGOs as part of a wide anti-nuclear campaign discretely on for some years now.

While the police cyber crime cell is deciphering data from Hermann’s laptop, the police are tight-lipped about the details, except that Hermann was under Central surveillance for quite some time now since the anti-KNPP protests swelled from September last, raising eyebrows over the activists’ source of funds.

As the anti-KNPP protest is identified with the People’s Movement Against Nuclear Energy (PMANE) led by S P Udayakumar, the latest developments have put the anti-nuke activists on the defensive in the run-up to the meeting with Chief Minister J Jayalalitha at Secretariat here on Wednesday. Three other PMANE members were also present.

Udayakumar, after the meeting, reiterated that he had not received money from any foreign organisation or NGO and that the bank accounts of his family and himself were open to scrutiny. He brought papers along with his property details to show them to the chief minister. Udayakumar said he had “no idea” of the four NGOs whose bank accounts had been frozen after a police investigation into their activities.

The PMANE members’ meeting with Jayalalitha came just a day after a four-member State panel to study the safety and other aspects of the KNPP, headed by former chairman of Atomic Energy Commission M R Srinivasan, submitted its report to the government on Tuesday.

Udayakumar said the PMANE team had expressed its concerns again over the KNPP’s safety. The Srinivasan panel’s report was based on “one-sided information” as the experts talked neither to the group of scientists assisting PMANE nor with Kudankulam residents, he said.

Concerns shared
The PMANE members also shared with Jayalalitha their dismay over Atomic Energy Regulatory Board members’ recent visit to the nuclear plant complex to start operations when, post-Fukushima disaster, international norms “require that volcanic hazard study” be conducted before commencing operations of any nuclear plant worldwide.

Udaykumar said the chief minister did not discuss with them the contents of the Srinivasan panel report. Nonetheless, under the dramatically changing circumstances in the last few days, Udayakumar beat a strategic retreat by leaving it to Jayalalitha to decide the next course of action. “We have given her all the documents about the KNPP; she assured us she will go through all of them and decide,” he said.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/231 ... rthed.html

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 01 Mar 2012 10:56

Sanatanan,

Few more things to be kept in mind.

- Imported reactors cost double or triple that of indigenous reactors.
- Bigger reactors are harder to control for all the reasons observed at Fukushima. Active systems become necessary.
- Every one of the imported reactors need enriched Uranium which India does not produce.
- They have very specific fuel rod designs that will be imported for the lifetimes of the reactors. We will be locked in. Even at Kudankulam fuel has to come from Russia every year. Imported.
- The APHWR is designed to use Thorium in a limited way. Even this limited use is impossible with imported reactors.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Mar 2012 11:09

Sanatanan wrote: 6) Before I end this post, I would like to present a scenario. Suppose the nuclear deal had not been entered into. Then there would not have been this artificial "civilian-military separation". Then, the Koodangulam plant site would have carried the tag of "strategic property". In that situation, options available to GOI to overcome the recalcitrant and agitational approach of a few NGOs, and get the plant up and running might have been totally different and more effective.

JMT.

Sanatanan-ji; you are indeed a Seer, of deep visions, and perfect finger on the naadi.

Dhanya-ho.

amit · Post by **amit** » 01 Mar 2012 11:09

Theo_Fidel wrote:Sanatanan,

Few more things to be kept in mind.

- Imported reactors cost double or triple that of indigenous reactors.
- Bigger reactors are harder to control for all the reasons observed at Fukushima. Active systems become necessary.
- Every one of the imported reactors need enriched Uranium which India does not produce.
- They have very specific fuel rod designs that will be imported for the lifetimes of the reactors. We will be locked in. Even at Kudankulam fuel has to come from Russia every year. Imported.
- The APHWR is designed to use Thorium in a limited way. Even this limited use is impossible with imported reactors.

Theo,

It's useful to remember the amount of oil we import or the fact that the UMPPs in various stage of construction/planning are all going to use imported coal. And also do check on pithead prices.

This fear of being locked is IMO just a throwback from our protectionist era, when everything foreign was bad.

Active/Passive systems are not the issue, the issue is how safe the reactors are. Fukushima was Gen 1 with no passive systems. The current LWRs are Gen 6. Sure bad things can happen. But do we stop driving because we could have an accident?

Sorry whichever way you look at it, nuclear is something you cannot ignore in any rational energy mix for India.