The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

[Philip]

Keep a weather eye firmly on what is really at stake in these elections.They are all "local" state elections,where local issues will matter most to long-suffering Indians,victims of grinding poverty and disease still with us since Independence,thanks to corrupt rulers and corrupt civil servants.The incumbent rulers in these state swill have to prove to the electorate whether they deserve another term or not and the anti-incumbency factor will play its part to a larger or lesser extent.

To me the significance of these elections is that Rahul G has emerged as a "hardworking" populist leader rapidly learning the tricks of the trade of electioneering.That his sister is a far more valuable asset when it comes to votecatching is another fact,plus the widening of the dynasty's "political base" with macho man "Bob" on his Harley, straining at the leash waiting to enter the political fray too! Thus the Congress Party's "youth brigade" is now coming to the fore and surely by the time the next gen. election takes place,whatever the result in UP,etc.,the ancient geriatric leadership of UPA 1 and 2 will come to a certain close,whether the UPA/Cong wins or not.The Cong. and other parties too,have a long list of young dynastic inheritors of their respective clans' political legacy.This new leadership will be seen in full force at the next national hustings.Change is in store for many and for India.

The BR and AH movements have strangely done a lot to energise the youth against corruption through the massive support they recd, during their protests and fasts, and are acting as catalysts for the regeneration of the political spectrum in India.

"The old order changeth yielding place to new and God fulfills himself in many ways lest one good custom should corrupt the world..."

[Pranay]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 045908.cms

Attacking lawmakers, Team Anna member Arvind Kejriwal has courted controversy by saying that "rapists, murderers and looters" are sitting in Parliament, with enraged parties claiming that his "outrageous" remark showed that he had no faith in democracy and the Constitution.

"In this Parliament, 163 members have cases of heinious offences against them. In this Parliament, rapists are sitting, murderers and looters are sitting. How can you expect Jan Lokpal Bill to be passed by Parliament? How can you expect that you can get repreive from poverty and corruption," Kejriwal had said at an election rally in Ghaziabad in Uttar Pradesh yesterday.

Congress spokesperson Rashid Alvi today said it was an insult to Parliament and people of the country who elect MPs and MLAs.

Claiming that such comments weaken democracy, he said the media should not give them publicity.

"Parliament has a majority of those people, who are willing to do anything for the country. They reach there through hard work. Such statements not only insult the democracy and parliament, but also insult the people of the country."

The BJP reacted angrily saying such statements were against Indian democracy, Constitution and Parliament and shows their "arrogant" behaviour.

"While trying to portray themselves as honest, some people create the impression that the whole world is dishonest. Such statements show that such people have no faith on Indian democracy, Indian Constitution and Parliament," BJP general secrertary Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi said.

Accepting that there might be some persons in Parliament with "record" but Naqvi said "for them you cannot bring an end to our Parlimentary system or end to our democratic set up.

"Such behaviour is unacceptable." Lok Janshakti Party president Ram Vilas Paswan criticised Kejriwal's remarks and said "it is an attack on democracy ... it shows their mentality."

He also criticised the political parties and their leaders for supporting the cause by sharing the stage with them.

"Ask all those who were supporting them by sharing stage with them," Paswan said in a veiled attack on the BJP and other parties whose leaders supported Team Anna's movement.

The strident reaction from the political parties leaves me thinking -

1) How does a criminal background check on some "Parliamentarians" amount to an indictment of the whole parliamentary system or an "insult to parliament and an insult to the people of the country" or an "attack on democracy"?

2) The larger question being, what lies beneath? What is it that so pinches such "Parliamentary luminaries" that instead of correcting a flawed system, they virulently attack individuals who are trying to correct the system.

3) Such parties are so persistent in trying to obfuscate the real issue.

Just hoping that an awakened electorate will give such parties and individuals a telling message in the elections. Let's see...

[Muppalla]

The FOIL type is frustrated probably he did not get his cut for doing a loyal service to the Congress party in the form of some fake "Orange revolution" on India. This whole Anna Hazare movement is a failure. The masters who conceptualized the movement winded it up after the mission failure.

[Pranay]

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=753107

"In this Parliament, 163 members have cases of heinous offences against them. In this Parliament, rapists are sitting, murderers and looters are sitting. How can you expect Jan Lokpal Bill to be passed by Parliament? How can you expect that you can get reprieve from poverty and corruption," Kejriwal said at an election rally in Ghaziabad, a Delhi suburb, in Uttar Pradesh yesterday.

RJD National General Secretary Ram Kripal Yadav said Kejriwal has not only insulted the parliamentarians, but Parliament and the electorate as well. RJD is headed by Lalu Prasad Yadav.

"RJD will bring a privilege notice during the budget session of Parliament beginning next month," he told PTI.

"Kejriwal has lost his mental balance and needs to be sent to a mental asylum," he said in Patna and urged the Centre to immediately arrest him on sedition charges.

[ManishH]

Sonia Gandhi refuses to divulge her I-T returns citing 'privacy'
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/soni ... 75058.html

Public figures like sonia should make their income and tax returns public. Reluctance to reveal such matter shows is she afraid her corruption will be revealed. Money looted from India is sitting in her swiss bank accounts, which needs to be brought back and lokpal bill should be passed to do so.

Legally, only MPs and Ministers are bound to disclose assets. But ethically, even senior party functionaries and powers behind the scenes like Sonia should . And shouldn't the same standards be demanded of all public figures ? Eg. are tax returns of Nitin Gadkari public ? Gadkari too has shown reluctance to reveal his assets; remember he had 2 Lakh invitees for his son's wedding. Should we construe reluctance implies presence of swiss bank accounts in their names too ?

[ramana]

ManishH, Mrs Sonia Gandhi is an MP while Gadkari is not.

[alexis]

IMO, all MPs, MLAs and MLCs should reveal their assets every year. So should all functionaries (above gen sec level) of all national parties.

ramana, i dont believe being an MP should be the criterion. A high level party functionary has more scope than an MP to indulge in corruption

[Aditya_V]

Sonia Gandhi refuses to divulge her I-T returns citing 'privacy'
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/soni ... 75058.html

Public figures like sonia should make their income and tax returns public. Reluctance to reveal such matter shows is she afraid her corruption will be revealed. Money looted from India is sitting in her swiss bank accounts, which needs to be brought back and lokpal bill should be passed to do so.

Legally, only MPs and Ministers are bound to disclose assets. But ethically, even senior party functionaries and powers behind the scenes like Sonia should . And shouldn't the same standards be demanded of all public figures ? Eg. are tax returns of Nitin Gadkari public ? Gadkari too has shown reluctance to reveal his assets; remember he had 2 Lakh invitees for his son's wedding. Should we construe reluctance implies presence of swiss bank accounts in their names too ?

Saar SG is an MP, so legally she should disclose.

Do we know what was the expenditure for Robert Vadra and Priyanka's wedding, Sachin Pilot wedding etc., do we know the cost of Jr. Desmukh and Genlia wedding costs? May be the invitees were less of SDRE and more CHe chee, infact Gadkari inviting 2 lakh people, most people will be grass roots BJP personal and not Elites. SOohe is being more approachable, than having private parties in Switzerland away from Indian media glare while paying for First class tickets, oO it can be party gathering for furthering Party interests.

Why bring Gadkari wedding into this equation?

[niran]

IMO, all MPs, MLAs and MLCs should reveal their assets every year. So should all functionaries (above gen sec level) of all national parties.

ramana, i dont believe being an MP should be the criterion. A high level party functionary has more scope than an MP to indulge in corruption

what to do Saar? tis the Law of the Land all yempeas will have to reveal and non-yempeas are not to, even if Mr. N wanted to there are no clerks allotted to receive his
declaration, let alone an office or even a form to declare.

[Aditya_V]

Can we ask NAC members and leading media personalities influencing public opinion to also do the same.

[ManishH]

Saar SG is an MP, so legally she should disclose.

Yep, indeed she should. Anyone who is gen sec and above esp in the national parties should make public their assets. It should even extend to their near family (eg. Rahul/Priyanka). Digvijay, Ahmed Patel all qualify.

Why bring Gadkari wedding into this equation?

Sorry - can't have different standards for Mr. Gadkari. Party presidents should disclose assets and incomes. Gadkari wedding is pertinent because of ostentatious expenditure.

I'd expect the same from entities like NAC which are totally unaccountable right now. Or even personages like Mr Mohan Bhagwat who wield influence upon policies of several state govts of BJP and are totally unaccountable right now.

Until then, let the tabloids ascribe swiss bank accounts etc to all or any of the above.

[Aditya_V]

ManishH, what you say is true, but the way I see it is that 2 people write an exam with pass mark at 50/100, one scores 15 and other scores 42. Now since they fellow who scores 42 did not score 50, we continue to vote the fellow who scores 15 while discussing 58 questions failed by one candidate while completely ignoring the 85 wrong answers of the other candidate.

Better to support the guy who scores 42 for 10 years, so that the person who scores 15 can change his method to score 50.

[Sanku]

Sorry - can't have different standards for Mr. Gadkari. Party presidents should disclose assets and incomes. Gadkari wedding is pertinent because of ostentatious expenditure.

I am sorry this is not for Mr Gadkari alone; but "public life" is not a legally defined term. Different standards will have to exist for a person who enjoys the perks and privileges of office in GoI set up and those who do not.

Otherwise what next? Ask the Swamy of Belur Math to also disclose IT returns under this line of thought.

This view is clearly untenable.

I'd expect the same from entities like NAC which are totally unaccountable right now.

NAC is a body formed under the aegis of GoI and enjoys monetary advantages. They are different.

Or even personages like Mr Mohan Bhagwat who wield influence upon policies of several state govts of BJP and are totally unaccountable right now.

Again this will go nowhere because there is no remote definition of "personages who influence GoI". We can not have ad hoc laws and policies based on "what some think is right".

Until then, let the tabloids ascribe swiss bank accounts etc to all or any of the above.

Surprising, so if a person who is legally forced to share information does not, it is fine to have muck raking on all and sundry? Why? Especially surprising is linking of a matter completely unrelated to the discussion on IT (Sonia can have a Swiss bank and yet share IT returns publicly)

Let us be specific, an MP is required by law to share information, that is where RTI comes in, no one is asking for any thing which is not already under well defined and understood social and legal practices.

[Sanku]

Saar SG is an MP, so legally she should disclose.

Yep, indeed she should. Anyone who is gen sec and above esp in the national parties should make public their assets. It should even extend to their near family (eg. Rahul/Priyanka). Digvijay, Ahmed Patel all qualify.

To reiterate, there is no "should" about legal stand, she "must" -- it is a different question whether others "should" or "should not" the matter here is a person who MUST is not doing what they MUST but confusing the issue by bringing in irrelevancies (privacy for example)

[Pranay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHfz7EjO ... e=youtu.be

Arvind Kejriwal's statement that caused heartburn to some "Parliamentary Luminaries" (as noted a few posts above)- Judge for yourself if this amounts to an "insult to parliament and an insult to the people of the country" or an "attack on democracy"?

[ramana]

Alexis and ManishH,

The best is the enemy of the good.

Its better to have existing rules implemented(the good) then to stay them (for a best approach) of all people in politics.

This will only delay what should be already feasible.

[member_21708]

Sonia Gandhi refuses to divulge her I-T returns citing 'privacy'
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/soni ... 75058.html

Public figures like sonia should make their income and tax returns public. Reluctance to reveal such matter shows is she afraid her corruption will be revealed. Money looted from India is sitting in her swiss bank accounts, which needs to be brought back and lokpal bill should be passed to do so.

Legally, only MPs and Ministers are bound to disclose assets. But ethically, even senior party functionaries and powers behind the scenes like Sonia should . And shouldn't the same standards be demanded of all public figures ? Eg. are tax returns of Nitin Gadkari public ? Gadkari too has shown reluctance to reveal his assets; remember he had 2 Lakh invitees for his son's wedding. Should we construe reluctance implies presence of swiss bank accounts in their names too ?

Legally sonia cant even contest Indian elections since she holds Italian citizenship. Remember the time sonia hurriedly ran to President Kalam to stake claim to form govt and had to return with an egg on her face when he refused to allow due to her dual citizenship. And then like a true drama queen she concocted the sacrifice drama and made manmohan the puppet pm.

More legally speaking she should be in jail for her corrupt practices during purchase of bofors artillery guns. Even thou CBI has evidence they wont present it in courts as the CBI is controlled by sonia's puppet Manmohan. Efforts of anna and ramdev to bring CBI under lokpal to curb corruption were thwarted by sonia due to her fears of getting exposed in the Bofors case.

If you want to know gadkari assets file an RTI and ask for it. It's amusing to see you use an fabian congress dirty trick of trying to smear opposition leaders with fake accusations to protect dirty sonia. Swiss newspaper many years ago revealed rajiv had a secret swiss bank account which is now in the name of sonia, have you any proof gadkari has a similar swiss bank account? gadkari inviting guests to his son's wedding is his personal matters. Trying to distract attention from sonia's scam history wont succeed.

[ramana]

The doctrine of "contributory negligence" ennunciated by the Supreme Court if it was there before Independence would have locked up Mahatma Gandhi and the Brits would still be there in India.

They need to think it over again.

[ManishH]

Swiss newspaper many years ago revealed rajiv had a secret swiss bank account which is now in the name of sonia, have you any proof gadkari has a similar swiss bank account? gadkari inviting guests to his son's wedding is his personal matters. Trying to distract attention from sonia's scam history wont succeed.

The day hasn't come where newspaper clips can be proofs. I find funny the certitude which is used to assert Sonia has Swiss bank accounts. Probably the basis is that Italy is close to Switzerland ?

First show proof of Sonia's bank accounts, then ask for Mr. Gadkari's. The absurdity of speculative slander is only apparent when it's met with reverse slander.

No objection to Mr. Gadkari inviting whatever guests he wishes. Look at the lavishness of the "grassroots worker" from Vidarbha's son's wedding - Rs 9 cr bungalow, BMW sedan, 50 chartered aircraft, helicopters on standby. I trust he's earned the money in an honest manner; but I'd like to verify it against his known sources of income

Even PWD sympathiser Swapan Dasgupta remarked on the lavish wedding: “It doesn’t behove BJP president to celebrate son’s wedding in such a scale. Sets wrong precedent. Gadkari has seriously erred."

Gadkari's rise started sometime in 90s when he was minister in Mah state govt. He acquired a sugar mill license in an area where sugar cultivation was minimal. His real intent was to use the mill license to get a distillery going. He got govt notified land of ~250 acre promising to setup a power project which never materialized. The distillery churns out >5 lakh bottles a day.

Since news articles are ample proof by your standards, here is one ...
http://dialogueindia.in/magazine/Articl ... r-ke-aarop

And since I'm lazy to file RTIs etc, I'll just indulge in flippant speculation on internet just like others are about Sonia

Not only that, Gadkari recently felt impelled to express "sympathy" with Yeddyurappa - who has been indicted by Lokayukta of BJP's own appointing. About Yeddy, he said "He is the popular face of BJP in the state and the party holds him in high esteem." Sure brother, you will always hold him in high esteem because he was the one who kept the coffers full.

Gadkari who is a known puritan (opposed IPL cheerleaders), did nothing to debar smut-watching PWD ministers of Karnataka.

[Sanku]

ManishH; if that was the level of "charges" against Shri Gadkari, I think he is probably on the cleanest wicket that we can find.

Witch hunt and muck raking works only if there is muck to rake you know brother, as the "Modi is villain" gang found out in electoral politics.

[ManishH]

At least I admit that this is flippant slander

Anyway: no one knows what happened to the case where the body of a young 7 year old girl Yogita Thakre was found in a car in Shri Nitin Gadkari's residence. Why were the poor girl's parents asked to remove the body immediately in a cycle rickshaw, even before the police arrived at the crime scene ? All Hush-hush onlee.

And why did mysteriously, at a later date and based on certain witness statements, the police, on paper, changed the colour and make of the car from a white Honda CRV to a brown Fiat Linea.

While the CRV is Nitin Gadkari's car, the Linea belongs to Sudhir Dive, managing director, Purti group of industries, of which Nitin Gadkari is the chairman. (same sugar mill as above)

It is also on record that Yogita's mother Vimal identified the Honda CRV a fortnight after the incident when the police summoned her for formalities.

The saga of forensic ommissions and commissions on rediff:
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 120123.htm

Illustrating the Goebbelsian technique here : pose questions in the narrative, so it later becomes part of the narrative. You can use it on Sonia, Gadkari anyone.

[csaurabh]

manishH is a congie using typical congress tactics to deflect blame from the first family.
Let's assume for a moment that NitinG is a corrupt SOB. Does that make it okay for Sonia to have secret billions in swiss accounts?

[Aditya_V]

csaurabh, no need to accuse anyone with words like congie.

ManishH, can newspapers explain why the under INC Central Govt and State Govt, if Gadkari was involved in all these how does he go scot free??

[arun]

Arvind Kejriwal of Team Anna needed to be pressured to perform his civic duty as a citizen and vote.

Reports of Kejriwal needing to be pressured to perform his civic duty as a citizen and to vote not restricted to CNN-IBN and has been reported by other media outfits.

Different matter off course that his name was missing from the voters list. :

UP Polls 2012: Ignoring UP poll date was a mistake, says Kejriwal

[member_21708]

Swiss newspaper many years ago revealed rajiv had a secret swiss bank account which is now in the name of sonia, have you any proof gadkari has a similar swiss bank account? gadkari inviting guests to his son's wedding is his personal matters. Trying to distract attention from sonia's scam history wont succeed.

The day hasn't come where newspaper clips can be proofs. I find funny the certitude which is used to assert Sonia has Swiss bank accounts. Probably the basis is that Italy is close to Switzerland ?

Your dumb argument shows your lack of knowledge and inclination to protect dirty deeds of sonia by using any absurd line of thinking your mind can come with up.

Investigative work done by reporters and published in newspapers has been used as proof by courts to investigate corruption cases, Bofors was exposed by newspapers, The Hindu and Indian Express to be precise. When this is common knowledge why would you come with such a dumb argument? Oh well never mind, you stand exposed.

First show proof of Sonia's bank accounts, then ask for Mr. Gadkari's.

Proof of Sonia's dirty deeds alongwith her friend ottavio quattrocchi in the Bofors case are with CBI, the day CBI becomes independent of congress interference it's jail for sonia. Even she knows it and that's the reason behind her reluctance to bring CBI under lokpal and attacks by her slave digivijay against anna and ramdev. And your's is a typical argument used by slave babus who have served under the corrupt dynasty and have eaten public money and bark on the people who demand sonia be punished for her corrupt deeds. If you are desperate for 'proof' go ask CBI.

No objection to Mr. Gadkari inviting whatever guests he wishes

Why would anyone object to gadkari's private matters. If he wants to spend his money on his son's wedding why are you getting heartburn? Jealously is bad and its stupid to compare corrupt sonia with high spending gadkari.

And since I'm lazy to file RTIs etc, I'll just indulge in flippant speculation on internet just like others are about Sonia

If you are so lazy then don't come here and waste our time with your utter non-sense aimed at derailing this thread. Unlike you we are not paid shill slaves tasked to protect their fabian masters. Go stand in front of the mirror and talk you yourself.

[ManishH]

ManishH, can newspapers explain why the under INC Central Govt and State Govt, if Gadkari was involved in all these how does he go scot free??

Chankiyan congies have stored Gadkari file in their italian recipe cabinet (between Fritata and Guanciale); it will be retrieved (before elections) to spring a surprise on pious, innocent cultural nationalist party

I'm accepting my post is muckraking - illustrative of lowest propaganda. So far we have seen such sustained efforts on the net put only against Sonia and her family. But the same can be used against anyone; not that I possess the wherewithall to do so.

The same question should be asked - why during NDA govt, no proof was found against Sonia and her family. They had access to all the investigative apparatus.

PS: On serious note - I think Mr. Gadkari is regular businessman who has every right to earn profit and use it for his personal expenses. It doesn't matter to me if he gets his children married in Vegas. Neither am I so pious as to think that owning a distillery is a crime.

[Aditya_V]

I could turn the question around and asked why Media is only pillorying Modi and no questions asked for INC leadership for numerous failures. Seems a master servant relationship. Numerous examples have been shown where lot of details about INC have been kept away from public view.

Quite frankly, since it started with a simple case of an MP refusing to follow the law and declare her IT return. We can discuss millions of cases. But fact is that the family that has lead India of 60 years and widely acknowledged as heavily corrupt is supposedly squeaky clean and never questioned by media.

[Sanku]

I'm accepting my post is muckraking - illustrative of lowest propaganda. So far we have seen such sustained efforts on the net put only against Sonia and her family. But the same can be used against anyone; not that I possess the wherewithall to do so.

For two reasons

1) This should actually be done by the establishment (media, CBI) but the popular perception is that it has not been done
2) Since the net is democratic it will take direction into a situation which can be believed by many, unlike media, where you only need to convince one person (owner/editor) to create a campaign.

The combination of the above means, that when disenfranchised, the people will turn their ire against entities disenfranchising them vocally.

However the same people can not be led to a campaign if the underlying material is not believable.

[ManishH]

Yours are good points. The net is democratic in terms of lack of censorship; but not in terms of it's representativeness. There are a lot of Indian citizens who don't have access to net. And there are a lot of non-Indian citizens who comment heavily on Indian affairs. So I'd weigh that in when we use the net to sample public opinion.

We can have a hypothetical situation where slander (against Mr. Gadkari or Mrs. Sonia) is directed by foreigners or even ex-Indian citizens - who have gladly given up Indian citizenship for greener pastures.

Back to Sonia issue - the Representation of People act, 1951 says:

Every elected candidate for a House of Parliament shall, within ninety days form the date on which he makes and subscribes an oath or affirmation, according to the form set out for the purpose in the 3rd schedule to the constitution, for taking his seat in either House of Parliament, furnish the information, relating to -

i) The movable and immovable property ... of which he, spouse, children ...
ii) liabilities to any public financial instt.
iii) liabilities to Central/State Govt

So hasn't Sonia complied with the law when she declared assets &c in 2009, within 90 days from being sworn in, just as the law says :
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/sonia-gandhi ... 95-37.html

The law doesn't say she has to keep giving yearly updates; unless I'm missing some other section that requires her to do so ?

[Sanku]

So I'd weigh that in when we use the net to sample public opinion.

We can have a hypothetical situation where slander (against Mr. Gadkari or Mrs. Sonia) is directed by foreigners or even ex-Indian citizens - who have gladly given up Indian citizenship for greener pastures.

That is valid point too, as we have seen in the case of the Chinese dlone armies on the net. However as things stand, so far, this still exists as most accurate form of sampling public opinion, if not flawless. We certainly have to be careful. I am fully aware that the discrepancy between voting and public opinion of the web are not only EVMs and vote banks, while those are major reasons.

Back to Sonia issue - the Representation of People act, 1951 says:

The law doesn't say she has to keep giving yearly updates; unless I'm missing some other section that requires her to do so ?

Not yearly updates no, but an RTI must be replied to.

IT returns and law, read up here, basically it says that since under law the pecuniary interests of MPs are public matter, an RTI into IT for the same can not be a private matter. Of course now the matter will go to court for interpretation.

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/91325-rti ... turns.html

[Aditya_V]

ManishH - What is unusual is the fact that the PM of India states he takes orders from her, and how every good deed is attributed to her and how when things go bad no blame on her or her children. Surely the person who makes such crucial national decisions and who is a PM by remote should be open to more scrutiny? And how can the head of Government claim innocence in every scam?

[ManishH]

This 2011 article quotes an RTI reply which mentions that all but 6 Loksabha MPs have already submitted assets to the speaker :

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 465308.ece

Sonia is not on the list of defaulters so it's safe to assume she has given details to the speaker too. If you are interested, you can get it via RTI; then do your own investigation.

the secretariat was already supplying the photocopies of all the declarations of A&L of all the members as and when applications were received under the RTI.

I haven't found a legal requirement for Sonia or any other MP to give regular updates on their income.

Adityaji: Sure: it's incumbent on every citizen to probe Sonia very critically. It's even ethical responsibility of Sonia to be more forthcoming - I've always said on this thread she disclose her income regularly being so influential. I even welcome open-source databases built using RTIs; so any discrepancies are immediately noticed. Importance of public scrutiny will remain even if Lokpal magically happens.

PS: Modi, PM taking orders etc are OT on this thread. Perhaps some other thread.

[Sanku]

I haven't found a legal requirement for Sonia or any other MP to give regular updates on their income.

ManishH-ji; I believe you are missing the very basic, no one is faulting Sonia for not adhering to a law giving update on their income.

Sonia is being faulted for not cooperating with a RTI query, when she is required to do so, by law.

Once we are clear on that. Can we proceed further.

[ManishH]

OK Sanku-ji, I'd like your help in understanding legalese here - how does RTI act apply to financial records of MPs ? Yes, MPs are part of a "public authority" (viz parliament) defined by RTI act.

"public authority" means any authority or body or institution of self-government established or constituted—
a) by or under the Constitution;
b) by any other law made by Parliament;
c) by any other law made by State Legislature;
d) by notification issued or order made by the appropriate Government,
and includes any—
(i) body owned, controlled or substantially financed;
(ii) non-Government organisation substantially financed,

But this is where I think MPs are not law-bound to regularly disclose income by RTI act:

8. (1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act, there shall be no obligation to
give any citizen,—
...
(j) information which relates to personal information the disclosure of which has
no relationship to any public activity or interest, or which would cause unwarranted
invasion of the privacy of the individual unless the Central Public Information Officer
or the State Public Information Officer or the appellate authority, as the case may be,
is satisfied that the larger public interest justifies the disclosure of such information:
Provided that the information which cannot be denied to the Parliament or a
State Legislature shall not be denied to any person.

As RTI act says, you can contest what constitutes public interest (is it what interests the public) with the appellate authorities. Eg. Have there been successful RTI queries for lower rung govt officials - to get a copy of the IT returns of an official in foreign ministry for example ? I'm not aware of a situation where RTI can be used to get personal data.

What MPs are legally bound to do however is disclose income 90 days after taking oath under Representation of People act. Also legally bound to disclose income when filing nominations. So in 2014 Sonia will contest elections and will disclose the income. Even if her children contest, they will have to disclose joint family income under RPA. By all means haul her over coals then - what are the chances her detractors will even believe the figures she discoloses ?

[Sanku]

OK Sanku-ji, I'd like your help in understanding legalese here - how does RTI act apply to financial records of MPs ? Yes, MPs are part of a "public authority" (viz parliament) defined by RTI act.

RTI applies to financial records since MPs pecuniary interests are public interests. Its right there in the link I posted. I do not need to get into legalities because there is no point doing that here. This will be done in the courtroom.

[Pranay]

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 120302.htm

The dysfunctional state of affairs when it comes to investigating a politician... An average Indian does not stand a chance in front of such entrenched interests.

Sanjay Tiwari, who works for a cable television distribution company in Mumbai, has become the bane of former city Congress chief Kripashankar Singh's existence.

Tiwari, who lives in a Mumbai slum, has alleged that Singh has amassed huge wealth disproportionate to his known sources of income.

After obtaining the information by filing several applications under the Right to Information Act, Tiwari filed a Public Interest Litigation against Singh in the Bombay high court.

Acting on the PIL, the court directed the police to file a First Information Report and initiate an investigation into the alleged amassing of wealth by Singh.

Singh stepped down as president of the Mumbai Pradesh Congress Committee soon after the high court ruling.

When did you decide to file a PIL?

After we got the RTI replies (we decided to file a PIL). We were also thinking about what to do next.

So through some connections, we approached advocate Mihir Desai. He helped us in formulating a proper complaint with all the documents attached.

On February 2, 2010, we sent the copy of complaints to the state anti-corruption bureau, the CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation), the economic offences wing, the Mumbai police commissioner's office etc.

But none of them replied to us except the economic offences wing of the Mumbai police.

They told us in writing that it is beyond their jurisdiction to conduct an inquiry and that they have handed over the papers to the state ACB.

We felt that the since Kripashankar Singh is a Congressman and both the state and Centre are being run by Congress governments, the case would never see the light of day.

We waited, but none of the agencies even got in touch with us for more information on the complaint. That is when we decided we would file a PIL in the high court.

Interestingly, the ACB initiated an inquiry and got in touch with us only after the PIL was admitted in court.

Was getting replies from the RTI an easy process for you, since you had a strategy planned?

While we did not face any major hiccups, it was not that easy. The whole process was backed by some serious follow-ups.

It appeared that the system was trying to protect and cover Kripashankar's lies rather than being candid about it in the RTI replies.

Despite writing clearly and to the point, the officers would give half-baked replies or an incomplete set of papers. So there was a lot of follow-up that has gone into this.

For instance, we have still not got any reply on the number of chartered flights he has taken and the expenses incurred.

One crucial element of your PIL is Kripashankar Singh's bank statement. How did you manage to get that?

It is not available under the RTI. Was someone backing you?

A lot of people have asked me this question. The fact is that Kripashankar Singh is a highly corrupt man. Even people in his own small coterie are fed up with him and his ways.

I can only tell you that I managed to get the bank statements of his and his family members only because one of his own men decided to support us in our fight.

Who is this man? Is it someone from his office or one of Kripashankar Singh's detractors within the Congress?

I do not think I will ever give out the source. I can only say that he is our well-wisher.

Which are the other areas where you used the RTI for the larger good?

After the 2005 deluge (in Mumbai), I used RTI to get information on the compensation that was distributed.

Through the RTI, I found that while the government claimed that Rs 5,000 was disbursed as compensation to the victims, the actual amount received by the victim was only Rs 3,000 or Rs 2,000.

I, along with a few of my friends, went door-to-door to check the reality and found that there are too many discrepancies in the government's claims and the RTI replies.

We filed affidavits of 130 such victims, and filed a complaint with the Anti-Corruption Bureau. Acting on our complaint, the ACB conducted an inquiry and nine government officers were suspended.

[Bharath.Subramanyam]

Now what is the deal with Firstpost and the G-khandaan?I have never seen any other outlet even coming close to the kind of aggressive articles on the first family!!

This resembles what the BJP leaders have to endure from all the other media outlets who scrutinize every small move even a peon in the BJP office makes!!

I was speaking to a former Editor in Chief of web portal (has over 10+ years experience in web portals of India). He told me that being 'Right' or being 'Nationalistic' works in internet. He said a famous portal (which started in late 90's) grew because it a lot of space of "Right Wing" people to write. Occasionally they will get some JNU/Jholawalla to write something to show their 'neutrality' etc.

All media houses understand this. This Firstpost is a venture from Network 18 Raghav Bhal (part owner of CNN-IBN). He has hired R.Jagannathan (Former editor of DNA) to be the Editor of this site. They are basically competing with Rediff, Sify, India.com etc. Since they understand that 'Right' sells, they are doing these articles.

[ramana]

ReDiff was like that. Once they got critical mass they sold out.

[member_21708]

Now what is the deal with Firstpost and the G-khandaan?I have never seen any other outlet even coming close to the kind of aggressive articles on the first family!!

This resembles what the BJP leaders have to endure from all the other media outlets who scrutinize every small move even a peon in the BJP office makes!!

I was speaking to a former Editor in Chief of web portal (has over 10+ years experience in web portals of India). He told me that being 'Right' or being 'Nationalistic' works in internet. He said a famous portal (which started in late 90's) grew because it a lot of space of "Right Wing" people to write. Occasionally they will get some JNU/Jholawalla to write something to show their 'neutrality' etc.

All media houses understand this. This Firstpost is a venture from Network 18 Raghav Bhal (part owner of CNN-IBN). He has hired R.Jagannathan (Former editor of DNA) to be the Editor of this site. They are basically competing with Rediff, Sify, India.com etc. Since they understand that 'Right' sells, they are doing these articles.

After reading your post, with high expectations that finally there is a site worth reading went to FirstPost and started commenting. Only survived one day there, got banned for counter trolling the commies. Commies of the maoist variety were celebrating their win in JNU elections, so gave the slaves something to think about. http://www.firstpost.com/delhi/jnu-stud ... 32903.html
These are the maoists that have occupied JNU

Looks like group of criminals standing for identification parade in police station

Maoists have made infiltrating cities to start their class war their primary goal after getting kicked in the face by CIF in the rural areas and jungles. These maoist student bodies will be a recruiting tool to gather dumb urban kids and use them for violent activities to provoke a police backlash and then cry human rights violation and bring in the EU observers as was done during the binayak sen case.

The so-called right site like firstpost should have informed the public about the grave danger posed by these maoist student bodies taking over JNU but instead protect these commie slaves from the verbal barbs of public.

[Jarita]

^^^ They are not a very attractive bunch are they - and how can 30-40 year olds be students