India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 20 Mar 2012 22:29

Ramana

We'll see about where the US ends up. I for one would have a back up plan i.e. be ready to find another greener pasture, but that's purely as a contingency. I'll surely tell my kids to have that option, but I doubt whether the change happens in my lifetime.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 20 Mar 2012 23:06

The racial bias in Dharun Ravi's case might not be direct (infact no racial bias in US is direct). I keep mentioning this :- If Dharun was black, there is a high likelihood that he would have gotten convicted on all the charges. If Dharun was a WASP, there would be a lot of people in the media/legal system saying "hey, we can relate to that stupid jerk, coz we did stupid stuff like that when we were his age". That would result in either reduced charges, or result in some space in the WASP media where Dharun would have been able to show a more "WASP-Human" side of him which will appeal to a lot of WASPs that "he is one of us", and basically defuse the lynch mob.

For that there should be something in the WASP (majority Americans) brain called empathy, and as I mentioned a few posts ago, most WASP Amrus have zero empathy for people of color because of generations of training to see people of high melanin content as "others" and "inferior" have officially changed the wiring of their brains, as proven by the research I posted. Once you lose the power to empathize, you can treat the human like an animal. For example: Once a lynch mob used to do its job in pre-1960 america they used to make postcards out of the scenes (some even containing the remains of the victim), and send it to friends and family as documented here:
EDIT: PICS are GRAPHIC and NSFW
http://withoutsanctuary.org/main.html

http://withoutsanctuary.org/pics_28.html

Note that in the lynch-mob Jim Crow era (revolutionary-war to 1960s) there were white people lynched as well, but it was very difficult to do that, because the lynch-mob was white and had empathetic circuits working overtime to defuse the situation.

Example here: http://withoutsanctuary.org/pics_11.html

The fact that very few Americans are able to show empathy towards Dharun (read the comments on some sites), just goes to show the racial side of this episode. Also the fact that his side was never mentioned anywhere in the media. I believe that if he was a WASP, he would have gotten a better and positive coverage with atleast someone in the WASP media willing to lend an understanding ear. The other aspect that makes it racially biased is deportation, anyone with empathy can and will understand why deportation in this case is almost like a death sentence for Dharun. In this case, even someone being OK with the possibility of his deportation shows a very deep lack of empathy.

I must tell this to all desis who have young kids, WASP media would make them think that they are one of the WASPs, you need to show them the Indian side of things so that they develop those mirror neurons (brain-center of empathy) before they stop being plastic, and lose the ability to empathize with other Indians/Coloreds. This is important because once they grow up and figure out that they are NOT in the WASP club, they will start hating themselves and get depressed. I have seen a few inter-racial kids go through this, its really tough on them because their parent who is a WASP usually has no clue on why they hate themselves.

If you look at it, most of current America is already on Stage 3 of this scale and most of past America is at Stage 8 (same as most of the current colonial powers).

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/8 ... ocide.html

An example is, anyone who criticizes British murder of Indian citizens is immediately "quieted" by providing evidence that Britain indeed helped India to unite, gave it English, gave it Railways etc. And if the criticizer is an Indian, they would be very quick in pointing out caste system, Minority oppression, filth and extreme poverty, corruption and what not. The last thing they will do is to take responsibility and say: "We are sorry".

History might just be repeated, I have no faith in the WASP version of selective Humanity

More economic turmoil might just push the powers that are, in that direction.

Here is an example of what is to come:
http://collateralmurder.com/

The above is nothing but a weaponized lynch mob, they "suspect" you have weapons, which in this case were camera/recording equipment, and before you know it you get to meet your 72. There were so many people "justifying" this as "ohh you dont know the whole story", i.e. showing 0 empathy towards the legitimate victims and 100% empathy towards "our boys"

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 20 Mar 2012 23:45

shiv wrote:Being settled in India I was able to weigh my options mainly because people urged me that my children might benefit. But the post 2000 USA is not the golden USA of the 1970s. In the 1970s doctors were featured in Life magazine as the richest professionals. My family and friends who were engineers easily got assistantships in Universities and settled in with little difficulty. Education was less expensive and no one was burdened by huge loans.

Nowadays education costs a bomb. Indians, with their dharmic ways insist on paying for their children's expensive education. Even my rich doctor classmates in the US complain about how much they have to shell out for their children's education. For a person like me, the equivalent money in India can be invested in ways that earn me a handsome income.

Another factor that I considered was the fact that "green card" nowadays means that I have to either live in the US or keep visiting every 6 months. If I look at society as a pyramid, I find that my personal status in India is closer to the top of the societal pyramid in the things I get to do and the people I meet. A shift to the US would put me right at the bottom of the societal pyramid.

i make the same aruments with my wife. especially the social pyramid aspect and opportunities for children. we as indian parents want to give a better life than us to our children. my parents succeeded. i dont know if i will. R2I gives me that chance...

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 20 Mar 2012 23:45

Regarding future of US economy

Five things that are making it more difficult to get advanced economies back to work

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Mar 2012 23:50

Well one forum member told me that in next ten to twenty years the areas that US can export are: food (grains and meat), entertianment (Hollywood, music, Apple products) and military hardware (right now only to non-paying allies). Kinds of meets the Maslow basic needs pyramid.
All other products are fluff and there are other sources for them.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 20 Mar 2012 23:57

Shiv - New Yorker article (I gave the link before) has quite a bit of details..(Court documents are easy to get)

No video was recorded or distributed, in fact according to court testimony not more that 6 people have watched not more than *few* seconds of two people together (they switched it off) but *no* sexual acts..

(Major facts of the case were never in doubt in the court)

Interesting part - Ravi was found not guilty of
"intimidation" (that is, jury was not convinced that there was any evidence that there was any intimidation).. yet due to "muddled" (see my earlier post) language "bias" part was added in invading the privacy charge.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 21 Mar 2012 00:25

gakakkad wrote: Many of them chose US for research. Barely 1% of them turned up anything useful. I myself have yet to achieve anything earth shattering on that front.

That's the nature of the beast...

Added Later: If one is worried about what level they would be in the social pyramid, earning enough money either the hard way (through work) or the old fashioned way, is the ticket for r2i.

Regards

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 21 Mar 2012 04:08

I am not sure if this is the best place. Mods.. Please move this to right topic if this is inappropriate topic.

Please fill the survey.

Begin forwarded message:

From: 80-20PACPresident<[email protected]>
Date: March 19, 2012 12:25:22 PM EDT
Subject: Becoming “the New Jews”? A Historical Perspective on “Diversity”

Dear Fellow Asian Americans:

46,301 people have voted in the 80-20 EF Survey. Will your vote send it to across the 50,000
minimum to show the INTENSITY of your concerns to the Supreme Court? YOU can do it by
ensuring your spouse, youths, parents, friends, and colleagues all VOTE.
http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no
Take the Survey NOW! Do Your Part to Improve our Destiny.

Asian Americans, “the New Jews”? A Historical Perspective on “Diversity”

After repeated failures at the Court, “racial balancing” proponents rephrased it into an ostensibly
well-intentioned “diversity” program, to be forcefully implemented through “racial preferences”.
After all, how can anyone be against “diversity”?

However, even an ardent supporter of “racial preferences” such as Kevin Carey found the current
practice troubling: “Elite colleges too often meet their diversity goals by enrolling minority
students from privileged backgrounds while offering few spots to poor students of any kind.
Meanwhile, some appear to have dusted off their "don't admit too many Jews" playbooks
from the 1920s in order to limit Asian enrollment, AGAIN on the grounds of "diversity,"
since, to the white people who run things in this country, people of Chinese, Japanese, Korean,
Cambodian, Thai, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Filipino, and various other origins apparently all kind
of seem the same.”

“Academically outstanding”, “economically successful”, “politically inactive”, “socially
awkward”, “meek” “invisible” “not well rounded”. Are we talking about Asian stereotype? No,
these are the same descriptions heaped on the Jews 90 years ago to limit Jewish college
enrollment. Indeed Asian Americans has become “the New Jews” [1].

A comparison between Jewish and Asian Americans in higher education offers some historical
perspectives that the high ideal of “diversity” was often used as a pretense to further not-so-lofty
institutional objectives. From 1900-1950, academically proficient Jewish students were
considered a “problem” by the elite schools, and their population had to be kept at ~10% through
the application of “geographic diversification” policy [2]. Today, through their political
activism, Jewish students are no longer classified as a minority, and are allowed to compete on a
merit basis. Currently, ~25% of the students in some elite schools are Jewish [3] out of a total
Jewish American population of 6 million. In 5bf6 contrast, ~17% of the students in the elite schools
are Asian [4], out of a total Asian American population of 15 million. Asian Americans are a
minority, whose percentage has been rather consistently managed to be below ~20% through the
application of a “racial diversification” policy. The irony is that the higher presence of Jewish
students does not appear to diminish campus diversity.

The Jewish example is a good template for two reasons: (1) All people should be allowed to
compete based on broadly-defined individual merits, without harmful effect to “diversity”. (2)
Group status could only be improved through political activism. By taking the 80-20 EF survey
and bringing the issue to the Supreme Court, we are writing history together!
http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no

Please join 80-20 TODAY. Go to http://www.80-20initiative.net/membership/join.asp
Or send your check to: 80-20 PAC 13337 South St. #189 Cerritos, CA 90703.
Family membership is $50 (two), individual $35, student $15.

Respectfully,

The 80-20 Collective Leadership

References:

[1] “The Price of Admission”, by D. Golden (Three River Press, 2006), “the New Jews” are covered in Chapter 7.
[2] “The Chosen, the Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard, Yale and Princeton” by J. Karabel
(Mariner Books, 2006), “the Jewish Problem” are covered in Chapters 3 & 4.
[3] http://www.hillel.org/index, % of Jewish students in some Ivy League school are: Columbia 30%, Yale 27%, Harvard
25%, U Penn 25% Cornell 23%, and Brown 22%.
[4] “Do colleges Redline Asian-Americans” by Kara Miller, Boston Globe, Feb 8, 2010.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/edito ... americans/

ranjbe · Post by **ranjbe** » 21 Mar 2012 05:06

gakakkad wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:>> This country offers a lot - and for me personally, let me do things that would have been impossible back in India.

This country offers to you because you provide valuable services to it. It is not an act of charity.
In some cases I feel that US is over hyped. Frankly speaking I am not sure , why I am here myself . Majority of my engineering friends do mundane coding jobs which are aplenty even in India . Many of them chose US for research. Barely 1% of them turned up anything useful. I myself have yet to achieve anything earth shattering on that front. Echo-cardiography and coronary stenting could have well been done in India . With a lot more respect.

My advise to you is to go back to India. The pie is shrinking for people in healthcare, because it is economically unsustainable. This is going to affect health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals and physicians, whether they like it or not. The Indian physicians from my generation who came here hit a pot of gold (to be fair, so did engineers like me) because that was the golden age of the USA. The many physician children of my compatriats, including my son, realize this, and are gearing up for a slash in payments for various 'procedures' from Medicare. Cuts from medicare are automatically replicated by private insurance companies. Unlike India where a majority of people pay their own healthcare bills, a vast majority of healthcare recepients in the USA have their costs covered by insurance.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 21 Mar 2012 06:16

^^^ranjbe
In other words follow the money. That will put one at the top of the social pyramid as well.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 21 Mar 2012 06:32

Altair wrote:
subodh wrote:
This country offers a lot - and for me personally, let me do things that would have been impossible back in India.
Like a lap dance by a well endowed young blond?

I always felt that all Indians in US were not there just for money but I never realized it was blondes they were after.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 21 Mar 2012 06:38

Karan Dixit wrote:
Altair wrote:
Like a lap dance by a well endowed young blond?
I always felt that all Indians in US were not there just for money but I never realized it was blondes they were after.

OT, but one of my friends is into Thailand

. I guess once our youngsters start earning some decent money (in like 3 - 4 years), you would get to see lines outside the Thai embassy for a tourist visa.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 21 Mar 2012 06:48

Those of you who are lining up in front of US consulates in hope of meeting blonde beauties should know few simple things: blondes are becoming very rare in US and american women become seriously obese by the time they hit 25. However, if they manage to avoid obesity they can be stunning whether blonde or brunette.

(Last post from me on this strategic topic

)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Mar 2012 06:53

Basically when any Indian goes abroad he takes with him a bit of Indian culture. When one is young (under 30) it is difficult to understand wtf this "culture-fulture" business is and it is even easier to laugh and call it bullshit, unnecessary stuff. But it exists and plays a role in keeping a society stable. America has a culture too but the Indian carries his culture to the US - he can't help it. Culture is the habits and attitudes of family and society that are put into one's head even before one is 5 years old.

Indian culture is baby sleeping with mummy or parents. No one asks how the parents have sex when a 4 year old child sleeps on the same bed. Father sleeping with son on the same bed is not because of pedophilia but often out of necessity in small homes. Personal hygiene, how and when to wash is particularly meticulous.

Homosexuality is not encouraged in Indian culture. This is not lack of liberalism, but Indic culture demands that man cohabits with wife and produce children as part of his duty. That cohabitation is done in private, not in public. If man cohabits with man for fun, he must not do it in public. The onus is on him to find privacy in a country where there are a lot of people in close knit social groups. But man-man or woman woman marriages are not encouraged. In India parents do not have a huge celebration and send out invites to all and sundry to announce the marriage of their son to another man. And parents remain connected with their children - caring for them till their education is done and the children later remain connected with parents.

Many of these things are laughed at or a source of embarrassment to Indians who move abroad. That is absolutely ridiculous. Indian culture is Indian culture and is far better than man buggering man in public and mother putting baby in the next room. America is still experimenting with culture. 50 years ago people with black skins were separated from the majority whites. Now man buggers man in public.

I believe it is time Indians in india stopped being dhimmi about themselves and started understanding that their own culture is something that has worked for a stable society for millennia. In India the homo would have been arrested for fcuing with another man in public. Also stones would have been thrown at the building where the 19 year old was arrested because his roommate was homo and them committed suicide. I mean how stupid. Indians are too apologetic about themselves. We are convinced that the others are better in all ways. Man fuks man in public and then commits suicide but his roommate gets arrested. Is this an encounter killing or is this an encounter killing?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Mar 2012 07:01

A Struggle with the Police & the Law

Book Review: The Rape Case: A Young Lawyer’s Struggle for Justice in the 1950s

State Department exempts 11 countries from Iran sanctions

Interview: General Martin Dempsey, US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Video)

Former Navy Seal Eric Greitens & Paul Rieckhoff, Founder of Iraq & Afghanistan Veterans of America(IAVA) on the physical and psychological strain on American soldiers as the United States marks it's tenth year in Afghanistan (video)

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 21 Mar 2012 08:54

shiv wrote:Homosexuality is not encouraged in Indian culture. This is not lack of liberalism, but Indic culture demands that man cohabits with wife and produce children as part of his duty. That cohabitation is done in private, not in public.

Homosexuality isn't encouraged in "American culture" either. These prescriptions to produce children and what not are very much found in the Muslim and Christian religions as well, and American conservatives and fundamentalists have positions similar to those claimed for "Indic culture".

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 21 Mar 2012 09:01

Prasobh wrote:Problem with India is that the reformation is not taking place fast enough, if it did ..... those lines next to the US consulate would dry up.

In medicine there is a acute scarcity of Post Graduate seats. This has turned into a battle of survival to get a seat for young medicos. Even if you get a rank, you need to get a high enough rank to get a specialty of your choosing else you have to settle down with what you get or risk another year of your life. Or .... you can avoid all this if you pay nearly 1 c or more, approximately 200,000 $.

Other professions are doing better, but our education system is still stuck in a rut.

This part is true . Especially the education system. Outmoded laws have ensured that there is a gross deficit of residency positions in India . India has barely 10k residency spots , while US which has a population one-third of ours has close to 26k positions.

The entrance exam in India for PG is idiotic and often corrupt. While USMLE is an excellent exam. Education system is the first thing we need to reform. But sadly education in India is a political tool .In medical education , some states like TN,WB and Kerala have continually rejected reforms . And the damage done by Arjun Singhs reservation policy is also massive.

One of the problems created by private colleges is that they absorb the best staff. So it often happens that the private Indian college which charges capitation fees has far better teaching and patient care than government hospitals where the supposedly best students go...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Mar 2012 09:04

vera_k wrote:
shiv wrote:Homosexuality is not encouraged in Indian culture. This is not lack of liberalism, but Indic culture demands that man cohabits with wife and produce children as part of his duty. That cohabitation is done in private, not in public.
Homosexuality isn't encouraged in "American culture" either. These prescriptions to produce children and what not are very found in the Muslim and Christian religions as well, and American conservatives and fundamentalists have positions similar to those found in "Indic culture".

Veraji, it is the height of hypocrisy to protect by law something that does not correspond to native culture to the extent of punishing a teenager to make an example out of him and putting him on par with robbers and murderers in jail when it was his roommate who was indulging in public buggery.

It is also the height of hypocrisy to protect the rights of homosexuals to have sex in public and then imagine that homosexuality is not encouraged. That falls in the same genre as claiming that non whites are protected equally while they are actually being victimized. Islam is a religion of peace you know.

It is easy to believe anything one is told even if it is blatantly obvious that it is bullshit.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 21 Mar 2012 10:12

shiv wrote:it is the height of hypocrisy to protect by law something that does not correspond to native culture

Point is that this is the same position as that taken by American conservatives, and therefore is not a liberal position.

member_23061 · Post by **member_23061** » 21 Mar 2012 12:15

Shiv-ji, I disagree with the requirement that we have to prove ourselves to anyone. The lack of pride in Indic things is a fault of our people not recognizing/not willing to recognize the greatness of our culture. Why is it that people who need to take pride in their culture have to denigrate others for theirs? Of course people take pot shots at Indian culture, helped by our own people infact in some cases. [Slumdog Millionaire]

There is an urgent requirement for us to mold our youth with a sense of 'Hindutva' or Indian-ess. The way to go about it is not by having us comparing/proving superiority of ourselves to anyone but understanding the deep philosophical meaning of what our forefathers have said while implementing it in our lives. I think our philosophy is the most liberal of all since we are taught to understand everything ourselves, uplift ourselves, et al

As for the Ravi case, it was not public buggery [why the use of an archaic British term?]. Clementi had asked permission from his room-mate, something he would have done if it was a female he was bringing over as well. We can disagree whether the act was immoral in our perspective but that does not change the fact that we cannot infringe on his personal freedom and/or comment on it derogatorily. Did a prank deserve a criminal indictment? Hardly! But the law is written so poorly [and the jury is informed so poorly about the law] that it was possible for them to convict him.

The more I read on the US system of Justice, the more appalled I get. The Supreme Court of America has judges that are patently biased according to liberal and conservative lines of thinking. How can fair justice be achieved by such a system unbalanced by biases at top? Aren't judges supposed to be above biases?

My issue so far has been the attempt to turn it into a case of injustice due to the color of his skin, I dont believe that is the case here. A Jury that cannot understand the meaning of bias crimes should not be allowed to try this case which is one of the first to use this new law.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Mar 2012 14:29

This is why the US armed forces are full of racist pigs,who look upon their overseas expeditions as "sport" to kill the natives.

This &*^% even refuses to apologise for her bestiality!

US soldier who abused prisoners at Abu Ghraib refuses to apologise for her actions

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 79422.html

The grainy photographs of a fresh-faced young woman posing with a smile in front of naked and bloodied Iraqi prisoners shocked the world upon their release. But eight years on, the former US soldier at the centre of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal shows no remorse for her actions.

Lynndie England was one of several members of the military police who appeared in images that showed the torture and abuse of prisoners at the prison in 2004. Among the photographs were images of naked prisoners being intimidated by dogs, dragged around on a leash, piled into a human pyramid and hooded and attached to wires.

The scandal led to a surge in anti-American sentiment in Iraq and President George W. Bush admitted that the scandal had disgraced the United States, and said it constituted the worst US mistake in Iraq.

But in an interview this week, the 28-year-old from West Virginia was unrepentant. "Their lives are better," she told The Daily. "They got the better end of the deal. They weren't innocent. They're trying to kill us, and you want me to apologise to them? It's like saying sorry to the enemy."

A few months after the images emerged, an American contractor named Nick Berg was captured and beheaded in retaliation. This, said Ms England, was something she did regret. "I think about it all the time, indirect deaths that were my fault. Losing people on our side because of me coming out on a picture," she said.

Ms England, who was 21 at the time of the abuse, was dishonourably discharged from military service after the photographs emerged, and served half of a three-year sentence for maltreating prisoners.

Ms England spoke of her fears about people trying to exact revenge for the abuse. "You wonder why I'm always looking over my shoulder," she said.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Mar 2012 16:15

vera_k wrote:
shiv wrote:it is the height of hypocrisy to protect by law something that does not correspond to native culture
Point is that this is the same position as that taken by American conservatives, and therefore is not a liberal position.

Vera it's like this:

If you have a country in which the law states that Muslims can marry up to four women, and where a Muslim man can divorce his wife upon declaring the words "Talaq" three times, can you seriously claim that this is the view of only some sections of society and that the country as such is not trying to impose sharia.

How can you have a USA that has laws that allow public buggery of males by males and then claim that "only the conservatives" are against that. It is the law in that country whether some sections of society like it or not.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 21 Mar 2012 17:32

Philip wrote:This is why the US armed forces are full of racist pigs,who look upon their overseas expeditions as "sport" to kill the natives.

This &*^% even refuses to apologise for her bestiality!

US soldier who abused prisoners at Abu Ghraib refuses to apologise for her actions

PhillipJi, its not just the armed forces, but entire US foreign policy elite have either an extended vacation (if posted to Europe), or as a sport to manipulate natives elsewhere to US benefit.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 21 Mar 2012 22:15

From Nightwatch

US-Iran: The Obama administration on Tuesday exempted 10 European Union countries and Japan from US economic sanctions because they have significantly reduced their purchases of petroleum from Iran. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton granted waivers to Belgium, Britain, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, Spain and Japan, meaning that banks and other financial institutions based there will not be hit with penalties under US law for a renewable period of 180 days.

Comment: The exemptions signify that the sanctions against Iran are somehow not aimed at key countries in economic duress and that depend on Iranian oil. This is a curious exemption because the termination of most international banking relations will make it difficult for the Europeans and the Japanese to pay for their oil.

A fortiori India doesn't have to comply with unilateral US sanctions either.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 21 Mar 2012 22:59

^^^ I think it is a way to protect "our guys".

India and China are the "others", the US wont blink an eyelid if the sanctions on India cause massive hardships to the Indian population.

The US (and the west) have survived by "othering" and dividing. Unless we have levers that can punch the US hard enough, there is nothing much we could do.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 21 Mar 2012 23:55

Look who is going to talk about evil yindooos in columbia

http://www.law.columbia.edu/media_inqui ... ure-Series

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 22 Mar 2012 00:56

Epiphany: driving my Indo-British Jag XKR
at 90kmh on a twisty rural road in Canada with the all too evangelist Americans beaming a heavily accented Sanskrit gayatri mantra via satellite on the radio.

While France and Germany keep Pakistan company in xenophobia.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Mar 2012 01:01

Great job! May you have many more Jags.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Mar 2012 01:23

Jarita wrote:Look who is going to talk about evil yindooos in columbia
http://www.law.columbia.edu/media_inqui ... ure-Series

replug of an old video posted in these forums.
Observe how he is twisting himself into knots while regaling his western mastas.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 22 Mar 2012 05:15

Now this is a real hate crime...

Life sentence in Mississippi hate-crime case

Dedmon, 19, told the judge that he was a "changed man" who had found religion since his arrest.

"I wish I could take it all back," he said, adding, "I was young and dumb, ignorant and full of hatred. I chose to go down the wrong path."

member_23086 · Post by **member_23086** » 22 Mar 2012 05:59

I have been a long time lurker on this forum. BR has become my de-facto source of non MSM and non Western news.

Like most others, I started reading about the Dharun Ravi case from an Indian perspective - but I think this case has gotten much bigger than that.

1. As per the jury's own statements, they didn't think Ravi expressed animosity or bias against gays. But they judged him guilty on the hate crime count because they thought Clementi perceived it as hateful

. And this is their application of the current NJ law

This is as Orwellian as it gets. All NJ based folks should write to their congressman and try to make this an election issue.

2. The prosecution and the jury effectively charged Ravi for Clementi's suicide ,without legally charging him for the suicide (this wouldn't even make it to the campus paper if Clementi had gone ahead with his room change request without taking his life). This is sheer genius from the prosecution. If Ravi was actually charged for the suicide, then the jury would have heard the bigger picture described by the New Yorker article - his troubled relationship with his mother, the fact that he took pictures of the George Washington Bridge before coming to Rutgers, and most of all the suicide note.

If you are going to make someone a convicted felon (non US folks might not realize this, hate crime is a felony, invasion of privacy is a misdemeanor. to be a felon is to be screwed for the rest of your life) based on what you thought was going on in the victim's mind, won't you be interested in reading what the victim actually wrote before ending his life? The suicide note is the only item that can give a clue of what was going in Clementi's head in the crucial last hours. Perhaps he put the blame entirely on Ravi, perhaps he blamed it on his family and society, and only incidentally mentions Ravi. (He was joking about the webcam incident to his friend on IM the previous evening, so what the hell happened in the last 24 hours? )

It's bizarre that these factors were not considered even relevant to the case. Either the defense was really sloppy, or the judge/jury were indeed biased against Ravi.

3. Ravi is charged of bias against gays. However, if you read the article, he shows much stronger bias against poor people and non tech savvy people. His tweets and IMs on gays are much more equivocal. (Clementi also made racist remark about Ravi's parents owning a Dunkin). Among this set, apparently only making fun of gays is illegal, and look like the gay community will come after you with a vengeance once they find out. This is placing too much power in the hands of one group. If you say anything negative about gays now and later commit a unrelated crime, looks like you can get screwed big time.

I also don't understand how 12 members of the jury came to a unanimous conclusion that Ravi's actions against Tyler (the part where every one agrees that he was a jerk) was precisely because of his "bias" against gay people. How do you prove without reasonable doubt that it was not because he thought Tyler was uncool and poor (being biased against which is perfectly legal).

This is a long first post, but please indulge a personal rant as well

Begin Rant

What is society coming to, when two 18 year old kids live in the same room for three weeks and don't talk to each other face to face for 5 minutes? Both of them are sitting in the same room, busy making fun of each other electronically to their friends. This is social networking gone haywire. I am not old (early 30s) and use gadgets as much as the next person, but the current teens have taken social media to a ridiculous level. If anything, this has taught me to be very strict with how much time my kids will spend on facebook.

At the end of the day, we have a nerdy Indian kid and a sensitive gay kid from different backgrounds who didn't get along well at first go. There is some electronic name-calling: dunkin donuts owner, poor, technically challenged . Totally unremarkable - much worse happens in the play ground of every school in every corner of the world. But then, the sensitive gay kid decides to jump off a bridge, for reasons still unclear, and the insensitive kid is judged guilty of the suicide with a possible 10 year sentence ? This is PC correctness gone mad.

End Rant

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 22 Mar 2012 06:20

Thanks for the kind thought Ramana.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 22 Mar 2012 06:32

kalnemi, [I'll dispense with the ji as I'm about your age]
That is a very good first post.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Mar 2012 06:40

Chinese newspaper responds to US election rhetoric

Mapping the U.S. bombing of Cambodia

Six Big Lies about How Jerusalem Runs Washington

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Mar 2012 06:45

Folks most of the posts go into the Understanding the US thread.

saip · Post by **saip** » 22 Mar 2012 06:50

matrimc wrote:From Nightwatch

US-Iran: The Obama administration on Tuesday exempted 10 European Union countries and Japan from US economic sanctions because they have significantly reduced their purchases of petroleum from Iran. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton granted waivers to Belgium, Britain, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, Spain and Japan, meaning that banks and other financial institutions based there will not be hit with penalties under US law for a renewable period of 180 days.

Comment: The exemptions signify that the sanctions against Iran are somehow not aimed at key countries in economic duress and that depend on Iranian oil. This is a curious exemption because the termination of most international banking relations will make it difficult for the Europeans and the Japanese to pay for their oil.
A fortiori India doesn't have to comply with unilateral US sanctions either.

This exemption just shows how hypocritical US is. Also US exports millions of tons of wheat to Iran on 'humanitarian' grounds. Hey otherwise the Iranians will starve! But US does not care that if India stops buying Iranian oil and has to pay much higher price for oil from other countries and its (Indian's) economy goes into a tailspin and millions of Indians starve. Go figure!

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 22 Mar 2012 06:54

Kalnemi, That is a nice post. You should post more often.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 22 Mar 2012 07:47

http://in.news.yahoo.com/gays-join-prot ... 46143.html

Gays join protest against verdict in Indian student's case

Some members of the LGBT community have joined in protesting against the conviction of Indian American student Dharun Ravi, accused of spying on his gay roommate Tyler Clementi for a hate crime.

Ravi, a former Rutgers University student, was found guilty by a New Jersey jury of 15 counts including the hate crime of bias intimidation. He faces ten years in prison and deportation to India.

"The LGBT community is not of one mind regarding this matter," Toby Grace, editor of Out In Jersey, New Jersey's largest LGBT publication said in e-mail to IANS, referring to two editorials published in the magazine.

"Dharun Ravi is being railroaded," said Grace in a commentary. "That's a statement that is not going to go down well with a lot of activists," he said pointing out "The law holds us accountable for what we actually do - not what others may in turn make of it."
"Tyler Clementi's life is gone but Dahrun Ravi has a life too," he wrote. "Before all this happened, it was a life full of hope and promise. It is disproportionate and unjust that his life should be destroyed because of a single, ill-judged act that, in other circumstances, would have been dismissed as a minor peccadillo."

In another editorial the magazine said "Gay rights advocates are, by and large, applauding the verdict but should pause to reflect that the law is a sword with two edges."

"We are on a slippery slope here and we don't know where the bottom is but is unlikely to be any place we want to go," the editorial advised, Bill Dobbs, a longtime gay activist recalled, "I went over to the Rutgers University campus when people were first absorbing the shock of Tyler Clement's suicide. At one candlelight vigil I carried a sign that read, 'Justice, not Vengeance.'"

"A group quickly formed on campus called Queering the Air which campaigned about conditions for LGBT students; we also became concerned that there was a rush to judge Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei (another student who watched the gay encounter with Ravi).
"Yes, there was outrage about the episode but there was also organizing to counter the high emotions - that's rare," he noted in an e-mail to IANS.

In an editorial, Newark Star-Ledger asserted "Dharun Ravi doesn't deserve prison in Rutgers spying case.
"What Dharun Ravi did was creepy and childish," it said. "But that's not enough to put him behind bars, in the company of rapists, muggers and killers."

Meanwhile a White House petition asking the Obama administration to "address the fact that media is driving Justice System's decisions" and "18 year old Rutgers student Dharun Ravi is NOT Biased," had gathered more than 3,000 signatures.
It must get 25,000 signatures within a month to get a White House response.

Satyameva Jayate.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 22 Mar 2012 07:51

Exclusive interview with Dharun Ravi: 'I thought my roommate would be my best friend

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 22 Mar 2012 08:09

It would be interesting to know whether the hostel permitted sharing of room by males and females. Where I studied, although males and females were in the same complex, but an apartment unit MUST be shared by folks of same sex. Univ did NOT allow sharing the unit by members of opposite sex.

If this was also the case with Rutgers, here are my thoughts:

Doesn't the spirit of not having males and females in the same unit diluted when you permit a chakka sharing a room with a straight? Shouldn't the chakka share the room with another chakka (oops that too could be a problem

) or at least a male chakka be allotted to unit with females and female chakki be allotted with male? (I know, I know some of you may be getting ideas

)

If Tyler didn't openly mention that he was chakka, did he lie by not mentioning his orientations before the room allotment or should the Univ also be held accountable for exposing Ravi to possible risk of molestation? Shouldn’t Ravi justifiably scared?

Where does one draw the line between getting scared and securing oneself from chakkas and "bias" intimidation?

Didn’t Tyler *prove* his "bias" against folks with whom he was sharing the unit? Sounds like the “qualified” jury members should be those who have lived with chakkas in a unit for at least a few weeks and come out unscathed

and then be in position to judge whether Ravi was indeed showing "bias" or genuinely scared?