India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Mar 2012 23:02

subodh wrote:Sanku

1. Sure - anything can happen in the future. That doesnt mean much in this context.

No Subodh, I am politely trying to hint something. I am sure you are intelligent enough to figure it out without spelling it in black and white. Think about what I am trying to say please.

2. Yes, I am not a social scientists and can only speak about my personal experiences - having said that, there is a fair contingent of Indians on the street and in my organisation - and none i know seem to have faced any institutional racism eitehr, that they have brought up with me.

Fine I can accept that. Would you also accept that there are all those who may not share your experiences?

3. Neitehr my Dad when he was young, nor I when I grew up in India, or worked in banking in India - dressed that way, or did any of that. Why would I do that here? To get a rise out of people?

No I did not mean "literally" you. Merely metaphorically you.

US is supposed to accepting accommodating and non this and non that right. So what happens when you have a bank
manager with a head full of Namam? (And please dont tell me that you dont see this in India, you may not but others do)

In reality, NY city is poor example to prove your point -

Yes I agree however my point was that even the Wall Street has a certain culture, you accept that culture and be a part, Wall street does not accept your culture.

Indians chose Wall street culture over theirs when forced. Lets not call it open heartedness of Wall St. Pluze.

The point is to look beyond overt hostilities of crass sort (like in Gangs of New York) to the current evolved picture of the same fundamentals.

Aur socho (think more)

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 22 Mar 2012 23:05

shiv wrote: Yes but Ravi is not supposed to complain if his roommate brings in a stranger and indulges in a open sexual act in the same room. That is no invasion of any type. That is OK as per US laws . It is the roommate's right to bring a stranger in and have sex in the room. That is quite OK. Ravi can have no legal objection to that.

A B S O L U T E ... N O N S E N S E

What open sexual act? Ravi was not in the room. He never was.

It IS a right of any tenant, roommate or solo, to bring ANY stranger to the room and have consensual sex or watch TV or do whatever, unless explicitly forbidden in the rental contract.

You are using a nonexistent situation and the argument is bogus.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 23:06

Rangudu wrote:
In the US gay/straight/3-way/4-way whatever sex is legal between consenting adults. Everyone knows this and Ravi certainly did.

There is no provision in a standard tenant contract that says that either roommate cannot bring in a stranger into the room.

Exactly. This is what i think is really odd. I think it is wrong. In my view only a degenerate society would make it a right for an orgy to take place in a shared room with no legal right for one of the room's legitimate occupants to object. The fact that I think that the society is degenerate and the laws are stupid is my view. You should have no trouble with that. You see different countries have different attitudes. You did say what is done with widows in India didn't you? India has changed that . I sincerely hope the US will change its degenerate ways.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Mar 2012 23:07

praksam wrote:
gakakkad wrote:w.r.t the US , one is less likely to face racism of any sort in the noth east , or the bay area california .. If one is in the bible belt , places like okhlahoma , that you ll probably have faced instance of racism by now.

In the silicon valley , population is multi-racial . While north east people are too busy to be racist . New york has a culture of its own. One usually does not even know ones neighbours .not even their race..one is moving too fast ..but new york cannot by any means be extrapolated to the rest of the country .
My experience is entirely opposite

The Boston Brahmin racism is REALLY something. Luckily most Indians are such PIGS (poor grad....) that they dont mix with royalty.

By the time they do, they are already co-opted.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 23:09

Rangudu wrote:
shiv wrote: Yes but Ravi is not supposed to complain if his roommate brings in a stranger and indulges in a open sexual act in the same room. That is no invasion of any type. That is OK as per US laws . It is the roommate's right to bring a stranger in and have sex in the room. That is quite OK. Ravi can have no legal objection to that.
It IS a right of any tenant, roommate or solo, to bring ANY stranger to the room and have consensual sex or watch TV or do whatever, unless explicitly forbidden in the rental contract.

I did say that this is a feature of a degenerate society. Homosexuality. Free sex. The fact that society thinks that what you write is normal but has convicted a teenager for invasion of privacy stinks as far as I am concerned.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 22 Mar 2012 23:10

shiv wrote: That is what i have gathered. What is not illegal in America is for a homosexual roommate to bring in a partner into the room and have sex in that room with that partner. While it is an invasion of privacy to monitor what the roommate does with a camera in America, it is also illegal to object to homosexual sex in your room. In other words, as per American laws, Dharun Ravi not only has no right to use a webcam, he has no right to object to a stranger being brought into his room for sex.

IF Dharun Ravi had objected to that. He could have been accused of being bigoted against homosexuals which is something that you are not allowed to do by law in the US. Is that right? Homosexual sex with a stranger in the other half of the room that is not yours is legal. But watching it with a webcam is illegal.

If that is right, then I think the law is extremely unfair. Dharun Ravi has been screwed by circumstances while people are defending absurd laws.

Wrong again. His room mate asked Dharun's permission for exclusive use of the room. He told Dharun that he was going to have company in his room so Dharun having grown up in the US knew there was going to be some intimacy between his room mate and some other person. If Dharun did not agree he could have said no but he did not. Instead he secretly broadcast the video without telling his room mate. I think we can all agree that would be invasion of privacy in all civil society including India. Again please understand that those explaining the issue are not necessarily agreeing with the verdict.

Dharun after finding out that his roommate was gay did not ask for a change of room. His room mate did not ask for a change of room when he found Dharun was straight but when he found about the video recording did make a complaint against it to the authorties. I am not sure what your peeve is Shivji? I would like to understand what it is that you are really objecting to?

Are you objecting to US society and its tolerence of Homosexuality or US laws or something else? I would like to understand what you are getting at.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 22 Mar 2012 23:13

so far, shiv is making a strong case is that he does not approve of homosexuality

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 22 Mar 2012 23:18

shiv wrote:
Rangudu wrote:
In the US gay/straight/3-way/4-way whatever sex is legal between consenting adults. Everyone knows this and Ravi certainly did.

There is no provision in a standard tenant contract that says that either roommate cannot bring in a stranger into the room.
Exactly. This is what i think is really odd. I think it is wrong. In my view only a degenerate society would make it a right for an orgy to take place in a shared room with no legal right for one of the room's legitimate occupants to object. The fact that I think that the society is degenerate and the laws are stupid is my view. You should have no trouble with that. You see different countries have different attitudes. You did say what is done with widows in India didn't you? India has changed that . I sincerely hope the US will change its degenerate ways.

Wrong again. You have every right to object to sexual activity by others in your room if you disagree with it. It is not a prison system and it is tenency at will. If you do not want a room mate you can change rooms but committing illegal acts against the other person in secret is wrong and that is true in India too. India will see a slew of such cases in the future as more people will use technology for committing such acts. A cursory read of dailies talks about this or that mms scandal and looks like most Indians too feel that such videography is wrong.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 23:22

BijuShet wrote: authorties. I am not sure what your peeve is Shivji? I would like to understand what it is that you are really objecting to?

Are you objecting to US society and its tolerence of Homosexuality or US laws or something else? I would like to understand what you are getting at.

I think US society is degenerate in many ways. The manner in which Dharun Ravi has been nailed suggests to me a coincidence of many things that are wrong with US society.

The US comes in for a great deal of praise for implementing its laws. But I get the sense that the laws are bent and misused making a complete mockery of the great praise that is reserved for the way laws are implemented by the US.

The excuse that laws are not implemented in India and that India society is also degenerate only makes me laugh. Eveyone knows that. But many people object when that accusation is made about the US.

That is all I started with, and nothing I have read so far has made me change my mind. I just had a lot of people objecting to my viewpoint.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 23:24

BijuShet wrote: Wrong again. You have every right to object to sexual activity by others in your room if you disagree with it. It is not a prison system and it is tenency at will.

That is not what Rangudu said

n the US gay/straight/3-way/4-way whatever sex is legal between consenting adults. Everyone knows this and Ravi certainly did.

There is no provision in a standard tenant contract that says that either roommate cannot bring in a stranger into the room.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 22 Mar 2012 23:25

degenerate is a subjective view, as is tolerance

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 22 Mar 2012 23:28

shiv wrote:I did say that this is a feature of a degenerate society. Homosexuality. Free sex. The fact that society thinks that what you write is normal but has convicted a teenager for invasion of privacy stinks as far as I am concerned.

You have been drinking too much of your piskology Koolaid and are now talking the language of the Taliban. As much as you beleive there is no free sex or homosexuality on display in most places in the US. Otherwise desis would not be making frequent trips to GoGo bars(the last line was written in humor only lest someone report me to the cops again). Repeating again the verdict was not fair to Dharun but the sentencing is still pending and the Judge will have leeway to decide. This legal fight is far from over and may be argued in higher courts. BTW Dharun was offered 600 hours of community service for accepting his guilt to invasion of privacy charges. He risked being sent back to India as he is a green card holder and not a US citizenbut the prosecutor offered to provide help in this matter to prevent his deportation. Even Dharun accepts that he video broadcast his roomate's intmicacy in secret so there was no case for defending against invasion of privacy. The only charge of Intimidation was the contested one and that too the interpretation of NJ law is what made it difficult for him to be acquitted. He picked a bad lawyer is what caused him damage in the court case.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Mar 2012 23:31

shiv wrote:
matrimc wrote: What has "same sex" got to do with your argument? Second, whether one is disgusted or not, one should not be bigoted, just like homosexuals are disgusted with hetero sex, but they don't go out and start attacking heteros. Honesty got nothing to do with it unless you mean honesty of your feelings.
Who has attacked anyone here?

Doc Saab

Derogatory remarks like "Public buggery"?

Regards

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 22 Mar 2012 23:35

Question is: Is the apartment shared by Ravi and Tyler has the standard rental contract or of a different type? I was assuming that the housing was provided within Univ ambit and DEFINITELY not of the standard contract type. Can someone pl clarify?

Univs routinely disallow sharing of room between opp sex. Hardly such a clause applies to folks renting out apartment outside the campus ambit.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 23:36

BijuShet wrote:
shiv wrote:I did say that this is a feature of a degenerate society. Homosexuality. Free sex. The fact that society thinks that what you write is normal but has convicted a teenager for invasion of privacy stinks as far as I am concerned.
You have been drinking too much of your piskology Koolaid and are now talking the language of the Taliban.

Thanks.

You know how the US treats the Taliban. First they get invited to the White House and praised.

They they get bombed.

Finally they are mollycoddled as the US has to cut and run.

Not at all sure why you should get upset by my views of US society so much. Are you saying that the views of the Taliban are not welcome in the US? They sure used to be some years ago. I did say that the US is experimenting with culture. Racism against blacks a few short years ago and now this over the top protection of homos. Reminds me of how the US handled the Al Qaeda and Taliban.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 22 Mar 2012 23:38

shiv wrote:
BijuShet wrote: Wrong again. You have every right to object to sexual activity by others in your room if you disagree with it. It is not a prison system and it is tenency at will.
That is not what Rangudu said
n the US gay/straight/3-way/4-way whatever sex is legal between consenting adults. Everyone knows this and Ravi certainly did.

There is no provision in a standard tenant contract that says that either roommate cannot bring in a stranger into the room.

You are misreading Ranguduji. Most forms of sexual activity behind closed doors are governed by state laws and some forms may or may not be illegal depending on which US state you reside. It is a state domain issue just like Indians states now are fighting the center on NCTC legislation that is taking away States police powers.

The fact that tenenacy does not have a provision about sexual activity by room mates does not mean one has to stay in a room when the other roommate is intimately busy. Room mates workout a mechanism in advance about how to handle such situations and that is exactly what happened between Dharun and his room mate too. If either room mate does not agree with such an arrangement they can get out as it is tenancy at will. If you have ever shared a room with another person, you will understand what I am talking about. For eg. bathroom use was always exclusive between my room mate and me i.e. when one is inside the other needs to wait his turn to use that room.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 22 Mar 2012 23:38

Rangudu wrote:
Amber G. wrote:(wrt to Devesh message in previous page) : That's not isolated, there are quite a few in Gay community who has come out and spoken quite articulately that harsh punishment is not only unjust ( the event has already taken one life, and taking another's future will make it more unjust) but will have backlash against the community.

This case has also brought out backlash, and need to amend the knee jerk NJ legislation passed around 2002..
How's this possible? You mean some WHITE gay people actually said something in favor of a BROWN person? That is impossible.

I thought America is for White people only? I mean, us 'browns' should know our place. We can come here, make $$$ but still bitch and moan about racism against Indians, all with a straight face.

WHITE MAN EVIL...WHITE MAN EVIL...WHITE MAN EVIL...WHITE MAN EVIL...

LOL!
Seriously, thanks Rangudu for adding your sane voice here.

My grand niece is an attorney in that area and it is interesting to read some lawyers blogs regarding this case. (There are quite a few SDRE's are in that profession, including prosecutors /DA's)

BTW The silly law some times called the 'sentence enhancer' (which if the prosecutor can add 'bias' part to other crime and thus make it more serious) had the support of some, yeah you can guess it ... SDRE lobbies.. There was quite a bit of hate crime against Indians so adding the part of "bias" (If you attacked some one just because there was a bindi) made the prosecution a little easier..

White man evil .. indeed!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Mar 2012 23:40

shiv ji, requesting a roommate to have exclusive use of the room for a few hours (for you know what) is common practice in hostels, even in India. the roommate may or may not oblige but this doesn't imply any discrimination or unfairness towards the person who is being requested.

member_23061 · Post by **member_23061** » 22 Mar 2012 23:41

Lalmohan wrote:shiv - would you be equally disgusted if your roomie was doing lalchix in your shared room?

Funny

OT, I dunno why people need to be anti-gay. Yes initially I did found it awkward with my gay friends, but they turned out to be cool and pretty much like us hetero's. As an Indian I am quite proud that we don't suffer the bible belt syndrome of 'God hates fags' and other such nonsense. India has a very friendly atmosphere and the friends who visited here loved it. They felt great here as there were plenty of straight men who held hands, strolled around without too much people gawking or looking disapprovingly etc [generally a very different ambiance from the west where 2 straight men can rarely touch without it being called gay]

Maybe we too have biogtry within us, maybe are merely more polite. In anycase we don't need to import the western influence of homophobism. Just like how we don't have anti semetism.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 22 Mar 2012 23:43

Based on that assumption that Univ allow and allot units only to same sex folks, it is Tyler who invaded privacy.

Yes, he asked for permission but to the point where clearly Ravi was annoyed and faced inconvenience. Add to that security angle.

Broadcasting it to friends with explicit intent of some "fun" deprives Ravi of some of the benefits of doubt and yet we don't know what all else is going on in his mind particularly security concerns.

So, how does a wrongful act (by Ravi) that is the direct result of another wrongful act from Tyler be judged and punished this severely? Especially considering that it has hardly been a year since Ravi reached adulthood.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 22 Mar 2012 23:46

shiv wrote:..
Not at all sure why you should get upset by my views of US society so much. Are you saying that the views of the Taliban are not welcome in the US? They sure used to be some years ago. I did say that the US is experimenting with culture. Racism against blacks a few short years ago and now this over the top protection of homos. Reminds me of how the US handled the Al Qaeda and Taliban.

I was clarifying for you about your nonsensical posts. I thought you would be happy to learn the full facts and stop behaving like an ostrich but if your choice is to beleive that you know it all then not much I can do to clarify facts. I hope you will form your opinion about this case after learning the facts of this case.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 22 Mar 2012 23:48

subodh wrote:Doc - I dont expect or care if you are 'fair' to or about the US, and my being fair or not is irrelevent. That is not the point i am making. Also, I couldnt care about 'defending' the US to you or anyone for that matter.

My point is simple. This is a very complex, and broad society - and like it or not, influences India very profoundly, mostly for the worse - via the vile scum next door. If we are to understand how things work here, from the inside, it helps to go beyond simple one word labels.

Abhishek - so - education triumps race for 'racist' Americans? ok.

shiv has written often about racist american policies towards India. I think he is right about that. Anglo-american sense of superiority over the Indians explains the policies very well.

Racial attitudes of American people is a different issue and doesn't belong in the strategic thread.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 22 Mar 2012 23:49

Satya_anveshi wrote:Based on that assumption that Univ allow and allot units only to same sex folks, it is Tyler who invaded privacy.

Yes, he asked for permission but to the point where clearly Ravi was annoyed and faced inconvenience. Add to that security angle.

Broadcasting it to friends with explicit intent of some "fun" deprives Ravi of some of the benefits of doubt and yet we don't know what all else is going on in his mind particularly security concerns.

So, how does a wrongful act (by Ravi) that is the direct result of another wrongful act from Tyler be judged and punished this severely? Especially considering that it has hardly been a year since Ravi reached adulthood.

Can you please elaborate on your post. I do not understand your post.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 22 Mar 2012 23:52

The other issue I see that is particularly related to US and impacting Indians is the number of laws in this country - you have county/tehsil laws, state laws, federal laws etc.

Ignorance of law is no defence against a crime committed not knowing and yet there are as many laws even lawyers have to refer to books and spend years to understand what all laws there are.

US is one heck of a litigous nation where a father can't kiss a 5 year old girl child in school premises. Teacher can report it to police WITHOUT ANY impact to her if the intent was good or bad. Guys need to spend loads of money just to get out of the case even if his feelings were father/daughter types. This also reflects on values and culture of this society.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Mar 2012 23:53

^^^

Thats a interesting point, if we are being "legalistic" is it legal for folks to have sex in the dorm (not ok, or everyone does it, or some such, but LEGAL) ?

Wasn't some law being broken just because of that? (I am assuming the reason that different sexes are segregated is so that they cant have sex in the dorm)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 23:55

BijuShet wrote:For eg. bathroom use was always exclusive between my room mate and me i.e. when one is inside the other needs to wait his turn to use that room.

What are US laws regarding videoing the bathroom door? No I'm kidding.

At 19 teenagers are legally adults but emotionally not mature. I am not sure what the legal age of consent for sex is in the US - maybe 16 years? But the law is an ass because the US and a lot of Western societies have made sex too freely available and have made it look like that is the best thing since Apple Pie.

I meet desi parents who are deeply uncomfortable about what their 14 year old daughter is doing and know people who breathed a sigh of relief to know that their son had a girlfriend and not a boyfriend.

It is one thing to be a bachelor and love the sexual freedom that one gets. It is another matter to have teenage children knowing that they can be influenced in various ways. It is possible that Dharun Ravis late roommate (was he the same age) could have been influenced by a much older man and coerced into doing things that better family support may have stopped.

But in the US - for the whites, family support is not a given and the law is an ass and declares that one is adult at 18 and that free sex between consulting adult is fine. These are mistakes that US society is making. They are wrong. This society is bound to kill itself in the long term, but no one needs to believe me - please dismiss the statement as a pisko rant.

This case is an example of everything that is wrong with US laws about sex and privacy and teh way it has been handled is extremely insensitive.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 22 Mar 2012 23:57

shiv wrote:
matrimc wrote: What has "same sex" got to do with your argument? Second, whether one is disgusted or not, one should not be bigoted, just like homosexuals are disgusted with hetero sex, but they don't go out and start attacking heteros. Honesty got nothing to do with it unless you mean honesty of your feelings.
Who has attacked anyone here?

It is one thing to feel disgusted by homosexuality and keep quiet about it for fear of being declared as a "bigot". It is another matter to have the same homosexual having sex in your room with no way of your objecting to it. In the US you simply have to say "I'm lovin it. I'm no bigot" The minute you object to homosexuality in your own room you are branded a bigot in the US.

That is what I find so ridiculous.

Let's stick to Dharun Ravi's case. If he was so disgusted by homosexuality and what his roommate was doing, why in frickin hell did he film the act? And invite 150 people to view it?

Ravi was guilty of invasion of privacy. He was not guilty of a hate crime. What he did was basically voyeurism.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 23 Mar 2012 00:00

BijuShet wrote:BTW Dharun was offered 600 hours of community service for accepting his guilt to invasion of privacy charges.

BijuShet ji

The stick in the craw it seems like was that the plea bargain also included accepting the guilt of hate intimidation.

Regards

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Mar 2012 00:01

BijuShet wrote:I hope you will form your opinion about this case after learning the facts of this case.

Bijushetji - I am not sure why it is not clear to you that i have already formed an opinion about this case and have no intention of going any further into what you call facts.

You see, it is a perfectly common thing for people to teach conclusions without logic or fairness. It happens all the time. That in fact is the way Indians and Indian society have been treated by the US time and again. It is not a good feeling, but that is how the world works. That is how the cookie crumbles.

There are bigots and hateful people everywhere. It would be really good if all people could agree and sing Kumbaya together. It is always the bigots and extremists who spoil the party.

member_23061 · Post by **member_23061** » 23 Mar 2012 00:02

shiv wrote:
BijuShet wrote:For eg. bathroom use was always exclusive between my room mate and me i.e. when one is inside the other needs to wait his turn to use that room.
What are US laws regarding videoing the bathroom door? No I'm kidding.

At 19 teenagers are legally adults but emotionally not mature. I am not sure what the legal age of consent for sex is in the US - maybe 16 years? But the law is an ass because the US and a lot of Western societies have made sex too freely available and have made it look like that is the best thing since Apple Pie.

I meet desi parents who are deeply uncomfortable about what their 14 year old daughter is doing and know people who breathed a sigh of relief to know that their son had a girlfriend and not a boyfriend.

It is one thing to be a bachelor and love the sexual freedom that one gets. It is another matter to have teenage children knowing that they can be influenced in various ways. It is possible that Dharun Ravis late roommate (was he the same age) could have been influenced by a much older man and coerced into doing things that better family support may have stopped.

But in the US - for the whites, family support is not a given and the law is an ass and declares that one is adult at 18 and that free sex between consulting adult is fine. These are mistakes that US society is making. They are wrong. This society is bound to kill itself in the long term, but no one needs to believe me - please dismiss the statement as a pisko rant.

This case is an example of everything that is wrong with US laws about sex and privacy and teh way it has been handled is extremely insensitive.

Have you visited Delhi these days? Parenting is not the devil here, its the freedom to information and the growing assertiveness of the youth. Heck, I am under 30 and I am shocked at what my juniors are upto. The oft touted Western 'sexual revolution' has hit India and I am sorry to say, genie is out of the bottle.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 23 Mar 2012 00:03

BijuShet wrote:Can you please elaborate on your post. I do not understand your post.

If there was no wrong committed by Tyler, there wouldn't have been a wrongful deed by Ravi.
I am assuming that univ housing rules *specifically* disallow using rooms for purposes that impinge on other room mates's privilege. By repeatedly asking the room for personal/private use, Tyler indeed was breaking rules that he agreed.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 23 Mar 2012 00:04

shiv wrote:
BijuShet wrote:For eg. bathroom use was always exclusive between my room mate and me i.e. when one is inside the other needs to wait his turn to use that room.
What are US laws regarding videoing the bathroom door? No I'm kidding.

At 19 teenagers are legally adults but emotionally not mature. I am not sure what the legal age of consent for sex is in the US - maybe 16 years? But the law is an ass because the US and a lot of Western societies have made sex too freely available and have made it look like that is the best thing since Apple Pie.

I meet desi parents who are deeply uncomfortable about what their 14 year old daughter is doing and know people who breathed a sigh of relief to know that their son had a girlfriend and not a boyfriend.

It is one thing to be a bachelor and love the sexual freedom that one gets. It is another matter to have teenage children knowing that they can be influenced in various ways. It is possible that Dharun Ravis late roommate (was he the same age) could have been influenced by a much older man and coerced into doing things that better family support may have stopped.

But in the US - for the whites, family support is not a given and the law is an ass and declares that one is adult at 18 and that free sex between consulting adult is fine. These are mistakes that US society is making. They are wrong. This society is bound to kill itself in the long term, but no one needs to believe me - please dismiss the statement as a pisko rant.

This case is an example of everything that is wrong with US laws about sex and privacy and teh way it has been handled is extremely insensitive.

I believe 18 years is the legal age of consent in the US. In most open societies Kids begin sexual activity when they hit puberty. In India it used to be masturbation (but I hear things are changing in urban areas of India i.e. we are mimicing US behaviour in this) and in US there are more opportunities for both genders to experiement.

US society explained in a nutshell is, You are free to do anything but must take responsibility for your actions. If you break the law then you should be ready for its consequences. India has more regimented laws for eg the concept of No Objection Certificate in business etc is prevelent in India but mostly missing in the US.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Mar 2012 00:06

nachiket wrote:. What he did was basically voyeurism.

In his own room.

How do you teach a 19 year old son to handle it if he finds his roommate is gay and is requesting him to stay out of the room so he can have sex. Call daddy?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Mar 2012 00:09

Prasobh wrote: Have you visited Delhi these days? Parenting is not the devil here, its the freedom to information and the growing assertiveness of the youth. Heck, I am under 30 and I am shocked at what my juniors are upto. The oft touted Western 'sexual revolution' has hit India and I am sorry to say, genie is out of the bottle.

Not yet. It is unlikely to get out of the bottle so soon given parental involvement with children. But that is a different topic.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 23 Mar 2012 00:10

Satya_anveshi wrote: If there was no wrong committed by Tyler, there wouldn't have been a wrongful deed by Ravi.
I am assuming that univ housing rules *specifically* disallow using rooms for purposes that impinge on other room mates's privilege. By repeatedly asking the room for personal/private use, Tyler indeed was breaking rules that he agreed.

And Ravi's reaction to that was to videotape Tyler and share the video with others. Does that feel right to you? What would you have done if you were in Ravi's shoes. Complain about Tyler to the dorm management? Ask for a room reassignment? The idea of videotaping and sharing it would have probably never even entered your mind.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 23 Mar 2012 00:12

Satya_anveshi wrote:
BijuShet wrote:Can you please elaborate on your post. I do not understand your post.
If there was no wrong committed by Tyler, there wouldn't have been a wrongful deed by Ravi.
I am assuming that univ housing rules *specifically* disallow using rooms for purposes that impinge on other room mates's privilege. By repeatedly asking the room for personal/private use, Tyler indeed was breaking rules that he agreed.

It was 3 weeks after start of college year and it was the first time Tyler asked Dharun for exclusive use of the room. The univ cannot prohibit consensual sexual activity between students as long as the participants are all adults (true in this case). Tyler was not breaking any rules as far as I know. I have not read campus housing policy but I doubt it prohibits sexual activity. These guys happen to be adults who are enrolled as students on Campus. The college is not their parent or guardian but it will investigate any charge made by any student and in this case it was Tyler who had complained about Dharun and not the other way around.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 23 Mar 2012 00:12

shiv wrote:
nachiket wrote:. What he did was basically voyeurism.
In his own room.

How do you teach a 19 year old son to handle it if he finds his roommate is gay and is requesting him to stay out of the room so he can have sex. Call daddy?

Complain to campus housing authority.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 23 Mar 2012 00:13

shiv wrote:
nachiket wrote:. What he did was basically voyeurism.
In his own room.

Nope. It is a shared room where his roommate has a right to privacy.

member_23061 · Post by **member_23061** » 23 Mar 2012 00:15

shiv wrote:
Prasobh wrote: Have you visited Delhi these days? Parenting is not the devil here, its the freedom to information and the growing assertiveness of the youth. Heck, I am under 30 and I am shocked at what my juniors are upto. The oft touted Western 'sexual revolution' has hit India and I am sorry to say, genie is out of the bottle.
Not yet. It is unlikely to get out of the bottle so soon given parental involvement with children. But that is a different topic.

lol .... I assure you, I understand -ji. Its a 'seeing is believing' kind of a deal and I would scarcely have believed it myself. Seeing it in Gautam Nagar of all places.

I know as a parent you can feel that there was faulty upbringing if a child does 'acts' that you disapprove of ..... But you know, more the freedom, more they will explore the boundaries of it. America was quite conservative till the 60's, it is after that they developed into what we are seeing now.

Who knows how India will be in 20-30 years.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 23 Mar 2012 00:18

nachiket wrote:
Satya_anveshi wrote: If there was no wrong committed by Tyler, there wouldn't have been a wrongful deed by Ravi.
I am assuming that univ housing rules *specifically* disallow using rooms for purposes that impinge on other room mates's privilege. By repeatedly asking the room for personal/private use, Tyler indeed was breaking rules that he agreed.
And Ravi's reaction to that was to videotape Tyler and share the video with others. Does that feel right to you? What would you have done if you were in Ravi's shoes. Complain about Tyler to the dorm management? Ask for a room reassignment? The idea of videotaping and sharing it would have probably never even entered your mind.

There was no recording/videotape