Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 21 Mar 2012 15:04

Pakistani intellectuals criticizing and discussing things like Alexander glorified as a coquerer and while Ashoka and Chandragupta not being studied in pakistan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGr19sfc ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRa5g3eJMbk

Also they are saying how much mughals hated Indians and were foreigners as they spoke 'Farsi' and 'Turki' .

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 21 Mar 2012 15:42

Korea assured full support to overcome energy crises

Now SoKo has also assured Pakistan that they will extend their full support to further de-electrify TSP.

To a question about dengue virus, the ambassador said vaccine for the virus would be made available to Pakistan if Korea had any solution to it.

In other words we don't wish to provide any help and you should stop begging. You guys should rot in hell.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 21 Mar 2012 18:05

Anujan wrote:If you were following the news: A french fellow shot and killed 3 french Muslim paratroopers and then later killed 3 jewish kids and their teacher. Apparently french police are closing in on him. Guess where he trained?

Ecole de Bombe Arts, Paris-sur-la-indus (dans premiere Arrondissemente)?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 21 Mar 2012 18:16

Ecole superiere international des bombes arts, paris sous-l'indus

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Mar 2012 19:31

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/french-police- ... 58818.html

French interior minister Claude Gueant said: "This person has made trips to Afghanistan and Pakistan in the past... and says he belongs to al Qaeda and says he wanted to avenge Palestinian children and to attack the French army. He has links with people involved in jihadism and Salafism (a strict branch of Islam)."

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 21 Mar 2012 21:09

Acharya wrote:What about Pakistani landing on the moon

After a lot of debate by some Chinese scientists as to whom to send to moon in their cheap knockoff spacecraft which resembled a toilet,they agreed that it should not be a Chinese citizen as no self-respecting Chinese would sit in a cramped toilet for 7 days. They did some research to find the most experienced in sitting in a cramped toilet for long distance flights and with absolutely no self-respect. The findings are classified Top-Secret-Ultra.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 21 Mar 2012 21:14

I dont know if it was reported here: Professor Judea Pearl won this year's Turing Award. Turing award is a big deal and is considered the computer science equivalent of the Nobel prize. Professor Judea Pearl's work has laid the foundations for the significant progress of probabilistic methods in Computer Science.

Judea Pearl is the father of Daniel Pearl, a Wall Street Journal reporter who was Kidnapped in Pakistan in January of 2002. The group that kidnapped him, made strange demands like the release of F16 fighters by the US, which were held back under the Pressler amendment. Daniel Pearl was kidnapped because he was a Jew and because he started asking uncomfortable questions about the Military-Jihadi-Complex in Pakistan. Daniel Pearl was later murdered (he was beheaded).

It emerged later that one of the key individuals in Daniel Pearl's kidnap and murder was Omar Sheikh Saeed. This worthy was rotting in an Indian Jail, but was released after the IC814 hijack in Kandahar. (The worthies who were released went on to distinguish themselves in many ways in the Pakistan Jihadi enterprise, including playing a helping part in the 9/11 attack). Turns out that the introduction to the Pakistani terrorists for Daniel Pearl was by Mansoor Ijaz (who would later go on to accuse the Good Haqqani of writing a memo to the US to "overthrow" the Pakistani military and ISI), which eventually got Daniel Pearl killed.

After a tape containing Daniel Pearl's beheading and mutilation was released, (meanwhile The Nation newspaper ran a "funny" cartoon of his wife Marianne Pearl, who was pregnant at that time, poking fun of her as being an annoying white pregnant lady who was bothering everyone) there was tremendous international pressure on Pakistan who launched a "massive man hunt" for Omar Sheikh Saeed. They could not find him. Because he was eating samosas in the house of one Brig. Ijaz Shah, retired ISI officer and the then Pakjab Home secretary. After his vacation in Ijaz Shah's house (some say 1 week, some say 10 days, some say 3 weeks), Omar Sheikh Saeed "surrendered" to the police. He was tried and sentenced to death.

Omar Sheikh Saeed is still in Jail. Has not been executed. And last he was seen making prank calls to Zardari from Jail, impersonating Pranab Mukherjee (apparently he is in a "super high security" prison, where he is allowed regular visitors and cell phones and such).

So. Before the French complain of a Pakistani-trained terrorists killing Jews in France, they should realize Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism and Pakistani-trained terrorists have killed jews in Pakistan itself. This tragedy would not happen if Kashmir issue is solved in accordance to the wishes of the Kashmiri people.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Mar 2012 21:26

Anujan wrote: So. Before the French complain of a Pakistani-trained terrorists killing Jews in France, they should realize Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism and Pakistani-trained terrorists have killed jews in Pakistan itself. This tragedy would not happen if Kashmir issue is solved in accordance to the wishes of the Kashmiri people.

Everybody dies. Jews also die. Jews died in Mumbai when Indians pretending to be Pakistanis killed 168 people in 2008. Why single out Pakistan? Before people shoot their mouths off they should remember that Pakistan has lost more soldiers to the war on terror than any other country. More than 30,000 Pakistani soldiers have been martyred bringing more than 720,000 Al Qaeda number 3 suspects to justice making the world a safer place.

Pakistan is a moderate nation. Just last year a fashion show was held in Karachi and the play "Vagina Monologues" was held in Lahore some time in the last ten years.

The French killer, Mohammad Merah is an Algerian, who happened to have travelled to Pakistan ass a tourist. He is not a Muslim. Muslims don't kill Muslims. Islam is a religion of peace.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 21 Mar 2012 21:36

The biggest victim in all these terror attacks which claim the lives of innocents and children is Pakistan's image. The world does not appreciate their sacrifices. They should express more gratitude to Pakistan through international monetary institutions and banks.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Mar 2012 21:48

Acharya wrote:What about Pakistani landing on the moon

That would be haraam for the citizen of the Islamist State.

Philip,
It is not past demons but current demons that haunt TSP.

Verily

Pakistan->>Zombiestan.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 21 Mar 2012 22:03

Gaurav_S wrote:Korea assured full support to overcome energy crises

Now SoKo has also assured Pakistan that they will extend their full support to further de-electrify TSP.

To a question about dengue virus, the ambassador said vaccine for the virus would be made available to Pakistan if Korea had any solution to it.
In other words we don't wish to provide any help and you should stop begging. You guys should rot in hell.

dengue does not have a vaccine ..

one candidate vaccine is under trial in philippines ..but unlikely to make it b4 2015 if ever.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 22 Mar 2012 08:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Jo#t=1718s

Interesting to note that in the land of the pure (a safe haven created for the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent), they are afraid to talk about their faith in public.

Apparently, they are not free to talk about religious issues in certain tea stalls, with signs posted to that effect!

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 22 Mar 2012 08:32

Mindset of Rushdie is that of a small man, Imran Khan tells NDTV

If anyone cares to read it here:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/minds ... dtv-188230

Comment

Sometime back she had flown all the way to London to interview Gen Mushasraf at his apartment.
The Mushasraf guy was talking about the unfortunate killing of Salman Tasser and explaining how the "those ones" are moderates.... she was gently corrected by her that ST's killer was "exactly that". The general did his famous downhill sking... and now this. Great going.

It seems, Ms Barkha of Radia tapes fame is turning into a Javed Naqvi clone.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 22 Mar 2012 08:47

abhishek_sharma wrote:No dispute about this: Paki Jahangir Karamat and former IAF chief S. P. Tyagi

A Strategy of “Congagement” toward Pakistan: Zalmay Khalilzad

From the first article

Though India-Pakistan relations are going through a relatively calm phase, things can quickly change. We must take advantage of the present atmosphere to lock in beneficial patterns of behaviour.
One area where we believe that progress can be made is on the question of military confidence-building measures (CBMs). The idea behind CBMs is well-tested; military establishments agree to avoid actions which are threatening to the other side to help avoid unintended conflicts. Of course, CBMs are not a panacea; if people want a conflict, CBMs will not prevent it. But CBMs do provide a mechanism whereby States which want to avoid a conflict through accident or misperception can develop ways to do so.

India and Pakistan have developed extensive CBMs over the years. Often, they have been developed in response to specific problems. It is time to develop a framework of such measures which can systematically address some of the key issues the two sides face.

That is why we have been participating in a series of meetings involving senior, retired officers from both sides, reviewing existing CBMs and suggesting new ones. The process is organised by the University of Ottawa and the Atlantic Council. We have met twice so far, in Dubai and Bangkok.

Over the course of our meetings, we agreed that most existing CBMs are sound and useful but noted a tendency for them to fall into disuse over time. Moreover, some existing CBMs have become dated because of new technologies and doctrines. Thought must be given to ways in which these CBMs can be updated and we have made suggestions to the two governments. Beyond the existing CBMs, however, there is a pressing need to re-conceptualise the way the two sides approach this topic. In particular, the ad hoc manner in which CBMs have been negotiated to address particular issues must give way to a frameworks of CBMs.

The key issue is crisis stability. India and Pakistan have deployed weapons which dramatically reduce the time available for diplomacy in a crisis. Where a sobering second thought is essential, hair-trigger alerts brought about by lethal weapons placed close to the borders will become the norm. Evolving doctrines compress the time available for diplomacy while the role played by the media in South Asia could also push the two sides towards an early resort to force in a future crisis.

This is a dangerous situation. It was, therefore, agreed at our Bangkok meeting that a useful area for CBMs is the elaboration of a framework for crisis management to provide the two sides with agreed steps that can be taken to prevent a crisis from spinning out of control. There was consensus that an interlocking network of CBMs should be developed which, in the event of a crisis, would require a political commitment that diplomats and officials from both sides come together at the outset of the crisis for discussions on how to resolve it (all too often in South Asia, we respond to a crisis by suspending diplomatic contacts — we should be doing the opposite). Require that, in times of crisis, both sides should take no military actions which could be construed as preparations for an offensive and adhere to existing CBMs.

Discussions should begin on new CBMs relevant in these circumstances.

Beyond crisis management, it was agreed by consensus in Bangkok that a CBM should be agreed upon whereby both sides, including their respective military establishments, should regularly meet to discuss their respective concepts and doctrines with a view to elaborating measures to build confidence in the nuclear and conventional fields.

In Bangkok, we also discussed the disputes over the Siachen glacier and the Sir Creek boundary. We will be further discussing these in our next meeting. Finally, we discussed the question of terror and its impact on stability. Though terror is not a military issue per se, we do believe that intelligence-sharing is the key to tackling it. Some suggested developing a list of terror groups which both sides wish to see stopped, leading to the sharing of information on these groups and cooperation on investigations. Other suggestions included: The revival of an effective joint anti-terror mechanism at a higher level.

Hotlines between the interior ministries on terror issues.

An effort to revive the Saarc mandated Integrated Regional Database on terror.

Discussions among respective officials on national experiences on such matters as legal frameworks to deal with terror Greater maritime cooperation on terror at sea.

Exchanges of views between the immigration, border services and customs authorities.

All these steps will not end the difficult situation that exists between India and Pakistan. But if taken in good spirit and diligently implemented, they have the potential to transform the atmosphere between the two countries and also to prevent future crises from spinning out control. In our region, this would be a significant contribution indeed.

I did notice something here:

In support of Pakistan-India trade
http://tribune.com.pk/story/346821/in-s ... dia-trade/

I have just returned from a couple of Track-II meetings between the retired military brass of both India and Pakistan; and, I am greatly encouraged by what I heard and saw. One, the interaction between the two formerly sworn adversaries was greatly civil and respectful. You could tell the professional respect that each showed to the other, quite unlike our usual mix of bureaucrats, academics and others. More likely the latter categories remain unsure of the flex that each of their constituencies can afford even as they discuss the same issues without official encumbrances. And two, the realism that each military man — after having been a practitioner of the art of war and acutely aware of both its efficacies and inadequacies — brings to the discussion makes such an interaction promising and positively motivated.

Some of the agreed resolutions were to begin a military to military interaction between senior training institutions; invitation to each other’s senior retired officers to address the other’s staff colleges and national defence universities, to be followed by interaction between the serving officers of the same institutions. Significant among this was a realisation of the futility of war and its irrelevance to the two neighbours as an arbiter of any meaning in resolving disputes. And with that premise, and acceptance that where possible offensive strike forces be relocated away from each other’s borders — and where that may be difficult because of infrastructure limitations and the heavy-cost involved in such relocation, adjust the force mix away from offensive to a more defensive orientation. This, in itself will make any claims and aspersions on offensive doctrines such as ‘cold start’ irrelevant — keep in mind that the Indians consistently deny any such doctrine, though they concede a move towards making defensive elements more potent with a force mix that may preclude long mobilisation periods. With a willingness to change such force deployments, South Asia may just have turned the corner.

Published in The Express Tribune, March 8th, 2012.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 22 Mar 2012 10:14

^^^
Dont read too much into it. TFTA Jernails and Kernails retire, become "moderates", get invited to think tanks, TV panels and all-expense paid track-II trips. They have to keep up appearances to earn their bread after retirement. The author in question is notorious.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Mar 2012 10:23

Description of the fountainhead of terror, ISI HQ, in OrBAT:

Our meeting Monday of last week was organized by the military's pr wing (the 2-star heading the dept and his chief of staff) and the ISI's pr people (in particular a certain Colonel Zaka). The last two times I met the ISI chief, it was at his residence inside Joint Staff Headquarters at Chaklala Garrison in Rawalpindi. This time around, the meeting took place in the super secure headquarters in Islamabad.

· In recent years there have many a lot of new roads constructed in the capital, especially around the ISI headquarters and then the jihadist insurgency led to the closure of the main road that ran in front of the directorate. So, it was interesting to actually get into the facility. Was directed to take a side/rear road into the complex.

· Had to go through five layers of security to get into the place. There were five check posts each with concrete as well as delta barriers and several armed men. The first two layers had guys with plain clothes with walkie talkies and guns while the inner three had uniformed men.

· Once after the main barrier, which is an iron gate you enter the courtyard of the new main building adjacent to the old ones. A really fine structure recently completed when the current army chief was heading the ISI and Musharraf was in charge - from the inside it resembles a 5-star hotel in terms of the quality of the interior finishing.

· I was told by the guard at the front door to park at the rear of the building. So I parked and walked back to the front. Once in the building and making my way through the metal detector I was greeted by a plainclothes official who said I didn't need to take out my blackberries to pass through the machine and asked me to hand them over to the guys at the reception who were also plainclothes people.

· The guys didn't look tech savvy but I would be surprised if others didn't go through my list of contacts and emails. The official who was wearing a tie and had two devices attached to his hip with a small earpiece escorted me to the fourth floor and seated me in a waiting room which could be accessed through two wooden doors and one made of glass. I was early and turned on the tv and waited for about 15 minutes before another person in a black suit and tie came in and took me to a meeting room where a minute later DG-ISI Lt-Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha came in and greeted me warmly remarking that I had come after a long time.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Mar 2012 11:04

Kailash wrote:US forces in five South Asian nations including India

US Special forces teams are currently stationed in five South Asian countries including India as part of the counter-terrorism co-operation with these nations, a top Pentagon commander has disclosed.

These teams have been deployed by US Pacific Command as part of its effort to enhance their counter-terrorism capabilities, in particular in the maritime domain, Admiral Robert Willard, the PACOM Commander said yesterday.

"We have currently special forces assist teams - Pacific assist teams is the term - laid down in Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Maldives, as well as India," Willard told lawmakers at a Congressional hearing in response to a question on co-operation with India on counter-terrorism issues.

"We are working very closely with India with regard to their counter-terrorism capabilities and in particular on the maritime domain but also government to government, not necessarily DOD (Department of Defence) but other agencies assisting them in terms of their internal counter-terror and counterinsurgency challenges," Willard said.

Willard said, Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (Let) is a very dangerous organisation. It not only has very good operational security, but also a lot of international design in terms of their aspirations.

"So it is a very important threat, and we're working very closely with the nations in the region to help contain it," he said.
link2
The PACOM commander was responding to a question from Congressman Joe Wilson as to what effort is being made to counter threat from LeT.

In his prepared statement, Willard told lawmakers that the US and India are working together on contain LeT.

"Responsible for many attacks in India, including the horrific attacks into Mumbai, LeT is headquartered in Pakistan, affiliated with al-Qaida and other VEOs, and contributes to terrorist operations in Afghanistan and aspires to operate against Asia, Europe and North America," Willard said.

He said Pacific Command's Indian Engagement Initiative that resourced and hosted Mumbai counter terrorist specialists for training exercises and exchanges throughout the US, together with capacity-building activities with South Asian partners are mainly focused on containing LeT and contributing to counter-terrorism self-sufficiency of the sub-region's militaries.

Willard said, South Asia as a whole is of major strategic importance to the US. Anchored by India and containing major sea line of communication for the transport of energy and other commerce to Asia and the America from the Middle East and Europe, South Asia security partnerships are increasingly vital to USPACOM's mission.

"South Asia is home to a confluence of challenges, including nuclear armed rivals India and Pakistan, numerous transnational VEOs such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, piracy, trafficking in narcotics and persons, disputed borders, and insurgent movements that have plagued India, Nepal, and Sri Lanka," he said.

USPACOM engages throughout South Asia, assisting its militaries to counter and contain VEOs such as LeT, cooperating in maritime security activities such as countering piracy, conducting disaster response planning and training, and exercising extensively, service to service, he said.

First help in training LeT in 1980s and now they want to train IA to contain LeT!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Mar 2012 11:04

ManuT wrote:
It seems, Ms Barkha of Radia tapes fame is turning into a Javed Naqvi clone.

OT and wrong thread but could not resist, She and her progeny are perhaps now eligible for the NAC.

P.S Javed saab has a good clone, his daughter who is an NAC member.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 22 Mar 2012 13:03

ManuT wrote:Mindset of Rushdie is that of a small man, Imran Khan tells NDTV

If anyone cares to read it here:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/minds ... dtv-188230

What to do? Rushdie has been hanging out for too long with Hindoo banias in Hindustan, leading him to have a small mindset, compared to Im-Dim Khan, who has a large heart, like all TFTAs.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 22 Mar 2012 17:55

Put wine in cold drink stores or ban its sale

A minority MPA of the ruling Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), Salim Khurshed Khokhar, went on to give an interesting suggestion to the provincial government during the Sindh Assembly’s proceedings on Wednesday saying that it should either allow sale of liquor in general cold stores or impose a complete ban on it.

“So start from your own house”, the excise minister taunted Khokhar.

She asked the minister whether liquor is permitted in Hindu religion. She later rectified her question by replacing the word “Hindu” as “non-Muslims”.

One of the PPP member belonging to district Khairpur complained that non-Muslims living in Kumb town were facing difficulties in getting liquor as they have no easy access to it.

Hic!!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 22 Mar 2012 18:12

The new resolution
by D Asghar (The writer is a Pakistani-American banker by profession)

The driving force behind the move called the ‘two nation theory’ has been fiercely debated and it is pointless to regurgitate the same old arguments. Whether the ‘two nation theory” is a fact or not is insignificant. What is more critical right now is where we are headed collectively as a nation.

We are one heck of a strategically placed country, neighbouring two giants if you will, China and India.

Business graduates would recall the ‘four P’s’ of marketing....Needless to say, both our neighbours have excelled in those. Having discovered their niche, they intend to exploit their strengths on the global stage. In our case, we are a confused nation. We are still stuck with the anti-India-centric strategy and an imaginary slogan of ‘all-weather friend China’.

It is no surprise that, sadly, we are known as the terrorism capital of the world.

The sore, sticking issue of conspiracies ought to be buried, once and forever.

No language, sect, race or religion superior or inferior. That’s truly one heck of a tolerant nation.

Much like our neighbours, we have command of the universally accepted English language. Needless to say, we are equally gifted with similar traits, yet we have not tapped into our core strengths.

Enough of what happened 72 years ago. It is time to do what will keep us going for the next 72 and more.

Ah! That fascination with "72". BTW, the four "P's" of pa'astan: Paisa, Pakistaniat, Pinglish and Panga.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Mar 2012 19:12

http://www.660news.com/news/world/artic ... stani-area

The headline reads: "French suspect showed no sign of militant leanings, but spent time in militant Pakistani area"

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 22 Mar 2012 19:20

Core TSP values on display above. No hard work, no education, no industries, no development. Just trying to get a free ride from everyone because of their "strategic location".
These morons are yet to realize that it has not worked. Why? Because 1948 Jinnah's Life magazine interview has the same content.
three quarters of a century later, TSP is still hawking the same. Only now, the US and USSR have been replaced with INdia and China.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 20:12

Neela wrote:Core TSP values on display above. No hard work, no education, no industries, no development. Just trying to get a free ride from everyone because of their "strategic location".
These morons are yet to realize that it has not worked. Why? Because 1948 Jinnah's Life magazine interview has the same content.
three quarters of a century later, TSP is still hawking the same. Only now, the US and USSR have been replaced with INdia and China.

Neela, a recent report showed that Talliban women were not getting pregnant because their men did not know where to put it. Trying to have sex between the knees or into the navel or via the anus is singularly unproductive when it comes to childbirth.

The moral of the story is that the route is important. One may have passages in many places, but only the right passages work. You see this "great game" was a very stupid game because the British though the Soviets would get a north South route to the Arabian sea. They stopped that and the Americans continued it. The only productive routes across Pakistan are the ones that allow east-west trade, not North South trade. Pakistan is strategically located only for exchange of goods between the Indian and Chinese civilizations with Africa and Europe. When Pakis and the great game players realize that there is going to be one ginormous gasp of cognitive dissonance.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 22 Mar 2012 21:13

anupmisra wrote:The new resolution
by D Asghar (The writer is a Pakistani-American banker by profession)
Enough of what happened 72 years ago. It is time to do what will keep us going for the next 72 and more.
Ah! That fascination with "72". BTW, the four "P's" of pa'astan: Paisa, Pakistaniat, Pinglish and Panga.

I think it was a damn ruse! Either he is damn smart or plain dumb! Too much to be a coincidence.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 22 Mar 2012 21:52

Anujan wrote:I dont know if it was reported here: Professor Judea Pearl won this year's Turing Award. Turing award is a big deal and is considered the computer science equivalent of the Nobel prize. Professor Judea Pearl's work has laid the foundations for the significant progress of probabilistic methods in Computer Science.

Judea Pearl is the father of Daniel Pearl, a Wall Street Journal reporter who was Kidnapped in Pakistan in January of 2002. The group that kidnapped him, made strange demands like the release of F16 fighters by the US, which were held back under the Pressler amendment. Daniel Pearl was kidnapped because he was a Jew and because he started asking uncomfortable questions about the Military-Jihadi-Complex in Pakistan. Daniel Pearl was later murdered (he was beheaded).

It emerged later that one of the key individuals in Daniel Pearl's kidnap and murder was Omar Sheikh Saeed. This worthy was rotting in an Indian Jail, but was released after the IC814 hijack in Kandahar. (The worthies who were released went on to distinguish themselves in many ways in the Pakistan Jihadi enterprise, including playing a helping part in the 9/11 attack). Turns out that the introduction to the Pakistani terrorists for Daniel Pearl was by Mansoor Ijaz (who would later go on to accuse the Good Haqqani of writing a memo to the US to "overthrow" the Pakistani military and ISI), which eventually got Daniel Pearl killed.

After a tape containing Daniel Pearl's beheading and mutilation was released, (meanwhile The Nation newspaper ran a "funny" cartoon of his wife Marianne Pearl, who was pregnant at that time, poking fun of her as being an annoying white pregnant lady who was bothering everyone) there was tremendous international pressure on Pakistan who launched a "massive man hunt" for Omar Sheikh Saeed. They could not find him. Because he was eating samosas in the house of one Brig. Ijaz Shah, retired ISI officer and the then Pakjab Home secretary. After his vacation in Ijaz Shah's house (some say 1 week, some say 10 days, some say 3 weeks), Omar Sheikh Saeed "surrendered" to the police. He was tried and sentenced to death.

Omar Sheikh Saeed is still in Jail. Has not been executed. And last he was seen making prank calls to Zardari from Jail, impersonating Pranab Mukherjee (apparently he is in a "super high security" prison, where he is allowed regular visitors and cell phones and such).

So. Before the French complain of a Pakistani-trained terrorists killing Jews in France, they should realize Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism and Pakistani-trained terrorists have killed jews in Pakistan itself. This tragedy would not happen if Kashmir issue is solved in accordance to the wishes of the Kashmiri people.

Sorry and forgive my ignorance saar...but I don't know what the point of your post is

-M

dada · Post by **dada** » 22 Mar 2012 22:03

# neela

What kind of economy the muslims created in india ? ... a rentier economy ! They lived off the majority hindus like parasites for nearly 1000 years & hoped to continue this way into the future as well !
They got a free ride which was inherited for many generations until in mid 1700s when a moment came when the mughal emperor was living off the pension from the marathas & the britishers from the mid 1800s onwards ! They conceived concepts like "muslim lands" , "strategic locations" to continue with this practice. The muslim clerics were too happy , constructing islamic justifications for the same.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 22 Mar 2012 22:21

Mihaylo wrote: Sorry and forgive my ignorance saar...but I don't know what the point of your post is

-M

Just that judea pearl won the Turing award and we should take this opportunity to remember his son. And just because Pakistani expats, Pakistani media, their ISI, a Pakjab home secretary, and a guy released from Indian prison because of another Pakistan planned and executed operation came together to cause his murder, it doesn't mean that Pakistan hasn't sacrificed a lot for war on terror and others are blameless. Among wealthy Pakistanis, their media, their ISI, their beaurucrats and the good Taliban the less radicalised must be identified and nurtured.

India could have solved the Kashmir issue and Pakistan would have had no reason to train terrorists. India could also have resisted releasing Omar sheikh saeed so Pakistan would not have to bear the burden of his presence and subsequent terrorism.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Mar 2012 22:24

Mihalyo, Anujan is being sarcastic in both his posts. The TSP unique claim while being responsible for ~90% of all terror is to claim they are victims of terror hence shouldn't be held accountable. And throw in Cashmere if above argument fails.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 22 Mar 2012 22:27

Anujan wrote:
Mihaylo wrote: Sorry and forgive my ignorance saar...but I don't know what the point of your post is

-M
Just that judea pearl won the Turing award and we should take this opportunity to remember his son. And just because Pakistani expats, Pakistani media, their ISI, a Pakjab home secretary, and a guy released from Indian prison because of another Pakistan planned and executed operation came together to cause his murder, it doesn't mean that Pakistan hasn't sacrificed a lot for war on terror and others are blameless. Among wealthy Pakistanis, their media, their ISI, their beaurucrats and the good Taliban the less radicalised must be identified and nurtured.

India could have solved the Kashmir issue and Pakistan would have had no reason to train terrorists. India could also have resisted releasing Omar sheikh saeed so Pakistan would not have to bear the burden of his presence and subsequent terrorism.

There is a Mumbai and a French Assault happening in Pakistan everyday. People do not understand the sacrifice Pakistanis go through in their everyday lives.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 22 Mar 2012 22:49

anupmisra wrote:
Much like our neighbours, we have command of the universally accepted English language. Needless to say, we are equally gifted with similar traits, yet we have not tapped into our core strengths.

I have noticed this time after time. How pakis think that their economy actually has potential to grow just because they can speak English is beyond me. But hey,who can salvage the mental flotsam called pakistan?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 22 Mar 2012 23:28

Anujan wrote:
India could have solved the Kashmir issue and Pakistan would have had no reason to train terrorists. India could also have resisted ~~releasing~~ arresting Omar sheikh saeed so Pakistan would not have to bear the burden of hijacking aircraft to get him released thereby regaining his presence and subsequent terrorism.

There, corrected.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Mar 2012 23:47

Bruce Reidel in Brookings Institute

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Bin Laden’s Wives’ Stories of Post-9/11 Life Cast More Suspicion on Pakistan
Bruce Riedel, Senior Fellow, Foreign Policy, Saban Center for Middle East Policy

Osama bin Laden’s wives have now told their story of the last decade of the al Qaeda’s leader’s life on the run. They were arrested by the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) after the U.S. Navy SEALs left his hideout last May with his dead body. The wives’ tales have been released by the ISI through a trusted former Pakistani army general’s account for obvious reasons. The ISI wants to draw attention away from its own possible complicity in hiding bin Laden and toward other issues. But the details in the wives’ story actually only increase the question marks about possible ISI complicity.

High-value target No. 1, bin Laden was surrounded by his family in the villa in which he hid for six years inside the city of Abbottabad, Pakistan. Three of his wives, eight of his children, and five of his grandchildren were with him. The ISI has debriefed them all, and now it has allowed a retired Army officer access to the interrogation reports and to the hideout itself. It wants to portray bin Laden’s decade on the run after the fall of Afghanistan in the best possible light, suggesting he was ill and inactive, surrounded by family quarrels. Since the current director general of ISI, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, is about to be replaced, this may also be Pasha’s attempt to clear his own name from the charge that he was either totally incompetent for not finding bin Laden for years or complicit in hiding him.

The key character in the story is bin Laden’s last and youngest wife, a Yemeni girl named Amal that he married in 1999 just before the al Qaeda attack on the USS Cole in Aden harbor in Yemen. Amal was with bin Laden almost all of the rest of his life and was probably his favorite. In the ISI’s interrogations, she says he fled from Tora Bora in Afghanistan in late 2001 and moved to the Pakistani city of Kohat, near Peshawar, where he met with Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, the tactical mastermind of the 9/11 plot, at least once. KSM was captured in Pakistan’s military capital, Rawalpindi, on March 1, 2003. Bin Laden moved around Waziristan, Pakistan’s lawless frontier district in 2003, then to the Swat valley north of the capital of Islamabad for a few months. In 2004 he settled into a house in Haripur only 20 miles from the capital before moving to the Abbottabad hideout in 2005. There he was about 30 miles from the capital, an hour’s drive. So he was in Pakistan for almost 10 years, mostly in settled urban centers, not caves in the remote tribal boondocks.

Amal also claims he had a kidney transplant in 2002. The story is vague as to where the operation took place, some accounts say Karachi, others suggest outside of Pakistan. So he was in a hospital somewhere in Pakistan or traveling abroad right when the ISI was supposed to be hot on the chase. Amal suggests that life in the house became more difficult in early 2011, when bin Laden’s eldest wife, a Saudi named Khairiah Saber, arrived in the compound after living in Iran since 2001. Khairiah, along with one of bin Laden’s sons and several of his closest lieutenants, had gone west into Iran after the fall of Kandahar instead of east into Pakistan like most of al Qaeda. After a decade of house arrest, the Iranians let the al Qaeda exiles go in late 2010 under mysterious circumstances. Their release may have been an exchange for an Iranian diplomat al Qaeda had kidnapped or it may have been part of a gradual rapprochement between Tehran and al Qaeda (or both). Apparently, the two ladies did not get along.

The picture that emerges is of a busy household and of a hideout that was well known to the al Qaeda core leadership, enough that the boss’s lost wife could find her way to it. Other information that has come out in the last month also shows that bin Laden communicated from the hideout with the leadership of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the so-called Army of the Pure that terrorized Mumbai in November 2008, killing six Americans, and with Mullah Omar, the head of the Afghan Taliban, NATO’s main enemy in Afghanistan. Both are very close to the ISI. The head of Lashkar-e-Taiba openly mourned bin Laden after his death and has been traveling around Pakistan since late last year holding massive rallies calling for jihad against America and India. The ISI is sponsoring his campaign. The Taliban also mourned bin Laden’s death last May.

Abbottabad is not your normal Pakistani city. It was founded by Sir James Abbott in January 1853 to be a garrison city for the British East India Co.’s army. It is still a military town. Three regiments call it home, as does Pakistan’s equivalent of West Point, the Kakul Military Academy, which is less than a kilometer from bin Laden’s hideout. It is so well guarded that in 2009 Pakistan held its first ever counterterrorism training exercise with China in Abbottabad because it was super secure. The head of Afghan intelligence has said he told then–Pakistani dictator Pervez Musharraf in 2006 that his sources believed bin Laden was somewhere near Abbottabad. Musharraf brushed him off.

In 2007, a former Pakistani ambassador and I were attending a conference in Doha. I asked where the ambassador thought bin Laden was hiding. The ambassador said probably in a safe house built by the ISI inside a military compound. After the SEALs found bin Laden, the country’s biggest English-language newspaper published an op-ed that said that the Army knew he was there for years. So many Pakistanis have suspected ISI complicity for years.

But we really still don’t know whether the ISI was clueless or complicit. Pasha says clueless. The wives’ accounts make that harder than ever to believe. One thing is certain: the commission that the Pakistani government formed to investigate the issue will not tell us the truth. Pakistan is charging the wives with illegal entry into the country and has destroyed the hideout. Many in the civilian government are scared to ask the Army for the truth. They know one journalist, Syed Saleem Shahzad, was murdered by the ISI last summer for getting too close to the answer.

So Pasha prefers to be called a fool than a complicit guy!

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 23 Mar 2012 00:06

anupmisra wrote:Much like our neighbours, we have command of the universally accepted English language. Needless to say, we are equally gifted with similar traits, yet we have not tapped into our core strengths.

Really???

Watch this video and ensoi....

Moeed Pirzada pining about how the talent that comes out of pakhanastan doesn't even have the most basic of communication skills!
All in all worth watching however, I was unimpressed by the 2 indians on the panel. A little too soft spoken and giving too much credence to equal-equal.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 23 Mar 2012 04:27

Anujan wrote:...
Judea Pearl is the father of Daniel Pearl, a Wall Street Journal reporter who was Kidnapped in Pakistan in January of 2002. The group that kidnapped him, made strange demands like the release of F16 fighters by the US, which were held back under the Pressler amendment. Daniel Pearl was kidnapped because he was a Jew and because he started asking uncomfortable questions about the Military-Jihadi-Complex in Pakistan. Daniel Pearl was later murdered (he was beheaded).

It emerged later that one of the key individuals in Daniel Pearl's kidnap and murder was Omar Sheikh Saeed. This worthy was rotting in an Indian Jail, but was released after the IC814 hijack in Kandahar. (The worthies who were released went on to distinguish themselves in many ways in the Pakistan Jihadi enterprise, including playing a helping part in the 9/11 attack). Turns out that the introduction to the Pakistani terrorists for Daniel Pearl was by Mansoor Ijaz (who would later go on to accuse the Good Haqqani of writing a memo to the US to "overthrow" the Pakistani military and ISI), which eventually got Daniel Pearl killed.

After a tape containing Daniel Pearl's beheading and mutilation was released, (meanwhile The Nation newspaper ran a "funny" cartoon of his wife Marianne Pearl, who was pregnant at that time, poking fun of her as being an annoying white pregnant lady who was bothering everyone) there was tremendous international pressure on Pakistan who launched a "massive man hunt" for Omar Sheikh Saeed. They could not find him. Because he was eating samosas in the house of one Brig. Ijaz Shah, retired ISI officer and the then Pakjab Home secretary. After his vacation in Ijaz Shah's house (some say 1 week, some say 10 days, some say 3 weeks), Omar Sheikh Saeed "surrendered" to the police. He was tried and sentenced to death.

Omar Sheikh Saeed is still in Jail. Has not been executed. And last he was seen making prank calls to Zardari from Jail, impersonating Pranab Mukherjee (apparently he is in a "super high security" prison, where he is allowed regular visitors and cell phones and such).

Just an a fyi, a documentary on the hijack of IC814 is in the reference list of terrorist attacks.
A lot of stuff is not mentioned, but at least it is has the same conclusions are there at the end of it.

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 23 Mar 2012 04:35

Although this pelongs to the Benis thread, this one is too tempting to let go.

On the topic of English, please remember that Full Ingliss-knowing Professor Ram Gungadin from London School Of Economics has claimed that India will not become a superpower because a) it shouldn't become one! (in Professor's opinion) and b) yindoos are evil.

Apart from slight desi accent while speaking, Professor Gungadin's English is perfect and even better than the British which is why he has been made a history Professor in England. Therefore everything he says about anything is right. After all, Gungadin sir knows full history of everything, and that too in universally accepted English language.

Reading Professor sahib's report brought tears of pride to my eyes... Waah, kitni acchi angrezi likhi...

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 23 Mar 2012 04:48

anishns wrote:
anupmisra wrote:Much like our neighbours, we have command of the universally accepted English language. Needless to say, we are equally gifted with similar traits, yet we have not tapped into our core strengths.
Really???
Watch this video and ensoi....

Moeed Pirzada pining about how the talent that comes out of pakhanastan doesn't even have the most basic of communication skills!
All in all worth watching however, I was unimpressed by the 2 indians on the panel. A little too soft spoken and giving too much credence to equal-equal.

Help in education without solving the core issues should not be done, eating aaloo-andey are fine though.
Speaking for anupji, I guess he would say

anupmisra wrote: I like the old Bayana dude from pisahour. . His thought process epitomizes the state of higher (and lower?) learning in pa'astan. May his tribe grow in the land of plenty.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 23 Mar 2012 05:12

I was listening to this event's (Pakistan on the Edge: The Future of Pakistan and the U.S. Response) podcast and Bruce Reidel makes some important points, viz.,

1. His guess is Ayman al-Zawahiri might be found in PoK, close to Rawalpindi.

2. He says that al qaeda's new strategy (under Zawahiri) includes doing mini-Mumbai type operations in western cities by folks trained in the "Land of Pure". He highlights the fact that the French shooter killed this morning, who admitted to training in the "Land of Pure", fits that pattern.
3. Af Taliban are fed up with TSPA.

Some noteworthy points by Ahmed Rashid

1. Mullah omar might be in Karachi.

2. Taliban might not have a confrontational approach to Yindoos after 2014 given its lavish aid program.

I recommend listening to the podcast.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 23 Mar 2012 05:22

In 2004 he settled into a house in Haripur only 20 miles from the capital before moving to the Abbottabad hideout in 2005.

The town of Haripur was created by the Marshall of the Khalsa Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa!!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Mar 2012 06:23

Is there a thaw developing in India-Pakistan relationship ? Pakistan Watch Blog