Indian Autos Thread

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 23 Feb 2012 13:49

Raja Bose wrote:
anishns wrote:^^^

They should put it up on ebay....some fanboi will be willing to pay millions!
Its a lease onlee.

Yep. The Mahdi deliberately leased instead of buying his cars to take advantage of a loophole in California law. What he would do is lease a new Mercedes from his dealer. New cars don't have any license plates at that point. In such situations, the dealer attaches a small temporary paper permit to the windshield on one corner, until the buyer or lessee acquires the new license plates. However, it is legal in California for one to not put license plates for up to 6 months from acquiring the car from the dealer. So the Mahdi would drive around with no license plates for 6 months. At the end of the 6 month period, the Mahdi would simply drive back to the dealer and exchange his leased Mercedes for a new one of the same model/color and drive without a license plate for another 6 months, rinse and repeat ad nauseam for years.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 23 Feb 2012 15:28

what's the point? anonymity?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Feb 2012 11:49

sounds wierd to me. maybe for security purpose as faithfools might steal a door handle or wheel cap to setup a shrine in their homes or try to sell on ebay? he did not have a extensive gated compound or security detail, drove himself and lived in a rich but not gated neighbourhood.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Feb 2012 12:24

Oh he had security and gate all right, just not a Hearst-style setup.

That neighborhood he lived in has some of the nicest and some of the shittiest looking houses. Some of the houses there look right out of some po dunk town in rural Alabama except for a tiny detail - the Alabama versions cost $30K and the Palo Alto versions cost $3m. In 2010 a colleague and me had gone around to look at houses for sale around there and came away shaking our heads at the disproportionate prices even after the 'decline' and no solution in sight to right-size those prices in relation to people's incomes. Given that situation in India is even worse, I might have to retire to Balochistan.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 24 Feb 2012 12:41

Gus wrote:what's the point? anonymity?

Possibly. Or just because he could thumb his nose at the police (being the a**hole that he was). Also see my reply to Singha's post.

Singha wrote:sounds wierd to me. maybe for security purpose as faithfools might steal a door handle or wheel cap to setup a shrine in their homes or try to sell on ebay? he did not have a extensive gated compound or security detail, drove himself and lived in a rich but not gated neighbourhood.

As far as I know, the Mahdi started doing this since the early 80s when he made his first few millions and before he had a fan club going.
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?pr ... eve%20Jobs <-- Memories of Steve Jobs' cars, as written by Andy Hertzfeld, an early Apple employee. Note that the article dates from 1985 and he makes references to incidents in 1983 as well and mentions that the Mahdi was in the habit of removing his license plates even then.

sampat · Post by **sampat** » 06 Mar 2012 18:09

TATA places bid for SAAB

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 06 Mar 2012 22:28

Hero MotoCorp to invest Rs 1,200 cr in Gujarat plant.

Hero MotoCorp is expected to announce plans to set up its fourth plant in Gujarat in March itself, even as talks speed up for a fifth facility likely at Karnataka.

Apart from feeding growing local demand, additional capacity would help the two-wheeler market leader to meet its $1 billion export target by 2020.

In a deal that has already been “finalised with the Gujarat Government,” the company is likely to invest about Rs 1,200 crore for a two-million-unit capacity plant set up over two phases, sources close to the development said.

Chosen because of the proximity to ports, the location is a 300-acre plot close to General Motors' car plant in Halol, Central Gujarat.

“Within this month, I should be making the announcement for the new plant,” Mr Pawan Munjal, Managing Director & CEO of Hero MotoCorp, told Business Line. “It will get to those levels (as Haridwar plant's 2.5 million unit annual capacity), but will have modular capacities.”

For the fifth plant expected to focus on the south Indian market, a 500-acre plot near Tata Motors' plant at Dharwad, Karnataka, has been offered by the Karnataka Government, State officials said.

This comes after months of discussions that company officials reportedly held with many States such as Tamil Nadu, Rajasthan and Himachal Pradesh.

While the fresh capacity is expected to come only by about 2014 – the same time when Hero's first self-developed models are launched, the company is also expanding yearly production beyond seven million units at existing plants in Haridwar, Gurgaon and Dharuhera. This will help it stay ahead of the Indian two-wheeler industry, which is set to grow at a CAGR of 14 per cent over the next five years.

“Some investments are being made at existing plants, so capacity should go up to over 7.4 million units in the existing operations. We're also working on a centre for after markets parts,” Mr Munjal said.

member_21708 · Post by **member_21708** » 07 Mar 2012 18:37

Tata unveils Megapixel at the Geneva Motor Show
http://in.news.yahoo.com/photos/tata-un ... 27931.html

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 08 Mar 2012 10:52

^^^^
Interesting architecture. From what I'm reading, it appears that the Megapixel's petrol engine doesn't actually drive the wheels directly. Instead it serves as a generator and supplies electricity to the electric motors that are directly driving the wheels. So there is no transmission to deal with, at least if I'm reading the description correctly.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Mar 2012 16:49

i wonder why no modern 10-15 seater commute vans are made in india?

the tempo traveller is the only vehicle in this segment. used widely as employee shuttles and tourist buses and seems like a 1960s design in tech level.

stuff like this sleek toyota hiace (with enhanced GC) are nonexistent here
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CSZuQAKQQms/T ... hiace1.jpg

member_20617 · Post by **member_20617** » 09 Mar 2012 19:13

I am really impressed by Megapixel except the glass roof for safety reasons.

By the way, why on earth is TATA still producing old style state transport buses and lorries?

Don't Indians deserve better buses and lorries?

I am sure TATA can deliver.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 10 Mar 2012 07:33

Megapixel, like most Tata cars in the recent years was designed by the famed ItalDesign of Italy. It is a regular full hybrid. Apart from the ridiculous name, the car would be a great addition to the sub-compact segment, and if produced as hybrid, India's first mass produced hybrid vehicle.

@Singha : The Tempo Travellers still use the Mercedes OM616 engines ( although now they are entirely built in India with license from MB except for the Bosch pump). Those engines,especially the imported ones in the 80s and early 90s had a legendary status of lasting upto 400 thousand kms before needing a overhaul, where as most engines in Indian conditions give up by 120-150k kms. As for the 10-20 seater capacity vehicles, there are quite a few options from Tata semi-front models and the Mahindra Tourister range. In the olden days, Swaraj Mazda, DMC-Toyota, and Tata's 407-607 based buses were battling with the Tempo Traveller long chassis, but none were too keen on the shorter ones as it did not make economical sense.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 12 Mar 2012 18:07

Singha wrote:i wonder why no modern 10-15 seater commute vans are made in india?

the tempo traveller is the only vehicle in this segment. used widely as employee shuttles and tourist buses and seems like a 1960s design in tech level.

stuff like this sleek toyota hiace (with enhanced GC) are nonexistent here
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CSZuQAKQQms/T ... hiace1.jpg

There is the Tata winger which even has the 13 carrier variant. Not very TFTA but there is a luxury variant (by our standards)

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 17 Mar 2012 03:27

Tata Motors to bring a new powerful Nano with 800cc engine

According to the report, the current 624cc engine will continue to be the mainstay, but it will be focused more sharply on semi-urban and rural markets. The report stated that according to the sources, the upgraded option, which is currently under development, is an attempt to target more affluent customers who are currently gravitating towards cars in the Rs 2.4 lakh and above price point (ex-showroom Delhi). The current range of Nanos is priced between Rs 1.4 lakh and just under Rs 2 lakh. The swankier variant, which could take 10-12 months to develop, will help in driving volumes that have stabilised at roughly 7,500 units a month and are inadequate for reaching break-even. But it was also reported that another person familiar with Tata Motors' strategy said, "There is nothing like an 800cc engine planned for the Nano in 2012. The company will go ahead with the Nano we have."

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 19 Mar 2012 08:48

i don't like the fact that the side windows allow other motorists to peer in to see if i'm wearing pants.

they need to make it a little bit more conservative and not too ultra modern.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 19 Mar 2012 12:28

Singha wrote:i wonder why no modern 10-15 seater commute vans are made in india?

the tempo traveller is the only vehicle in this segment. used widely as employee shuttles and tourist buses and seems like a 1960s design in tech level.

I think it has to do with family sizes, travel patterns and budget.

10-15 extended family members in a group (these would be non-city, extended family living close type people who are very budget conscious) will always want to travel on a budget, so won't want to pay more than a matador, or a 407 cab. The city people will probably have cars and take two of them if they form a 10-15 group. Or hire two cars, so they don't have to put up with other group in their space. I know I would not want to be with undesirable company on a long trip. I would much rather be in a smaller vehicle where I can choose my company.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 19 Mar 2012 20:24

Ambar wrote:Megapixel, like most Tata cars in the recent years was designed by the famed ItalDesign of Italy. It is a regular full hybrid. Apart from the ridiculous name, the car would be a great addition to the sub-compact segment, and if produced as hybrid, India's first mass produced hybrid vehicle.

@Singha : The Tempo Travellers still use the Mercedes OM616 engines ( although now they are entirely built in India with license from MB except for the Bosch pump). Those engines,especially the imported ones in the 80s and early 90s had a legendary status of lasting upto 400 thousand kms before needing a overhaul, where as most engines in Indian conditions give up by 120-150k kms. As for the 10-20 seater capacity vehicles, there are quite a few options from Tata semi-front models and the Mahindra Tourister range. In the olden days, Swaraj Mazda, DMC-Toyota, and Tata's 407-607 based buses were battling with the Tempo Traveller long chassis, but none were too keen on the shorter ones as it did not make economical sense.

Is it just the engine or even the whole van itself that is based on the Merc design? Having just travelled on a tempo traveller for 1800 kms, can't agree with Singha more. The only A/C vehicle that can take in more between 8-10 people is the tempo traveller. 407, tourister etc don't have powerful engines for A/C vehicles. Winger which is based on a Renault platform is an alternative but does not seem to be popular with the cab operators perhaps due to a puny 90hp engine.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 20 Mar 2012 05:06

Sridhar K wrote: Is it just the engine or even the whole van itself that is based on the Merc design?

It was entirely a Mercedes Benz TN, when launched in the 80s, the engine was imported from Germany and the body was build by the Firodias.Hence the reason why you'll never find a 80s/early 90s traveler in the used vehicle market, no owner wants to part with it. The later Travellers have licensed version of the OM616 engines made in India. The entire tempo lineup of vehicles to this day are either MB licensed models or is based on a MB model, including the Trax which was once nicknamed "dehati's G-Class!".

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 23 Mar 2012 05:40

Seems like Ford is undeterred by issue of slowdown in global economy. Plans of new plant are going as scheduled.

Ford lays foundation for a new $1B factory in India

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 24 Mar 2012 10:22

pandyan wrote:
Sridhar K wrote:Having just travelled on a tempo traveller for 1800 kms
Hope the road was good; traveller bounces around like a rubber ball. 407 provides better ride.
I think most of desi a/c vans (atleast from my previous experience in a traveler) come with two AC settings: Max cool, Off. (Shiver or Sweat mode)

Yes. The roads were pretty decent in MH. We couldnt get any other 12 seater with A/C easily other than FT. 407 (Tata City Ride) is non a/c version and so is Mahindra tourer. Winger is an option but most tour operators don't have them.

You are right about the A/C settings of FT. It is unfortunate that even after so many years, the best of the lot available in India is the FT, a clone of 20 year old Merc platform.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Mar 2012 05:33

Maruti to shift carmaking to Gujarat

Almost three decades after the Japanese carmaker rolled out the first of its iconic Maruti 800s revolutionising the Indian automotive industry, Maruti will cease carmaking at Gurgaon and turn it into an engine-making hub.

"Gurgaon is just too congested to have a car assembly plant. It's no longer an industrial area ... with residential and corporate offices coming up, the massive traffic movement due to large-scale manufacturing of cars often creates huge hindrances," Maruti Suzuki Chairman RC Bhargava told ET.

"Based on the observations of Osamu Suzuki, chairman of Suzuki Motor Corp (Maruti's parent company), we plan to gradually convert it into an engine and components-making hub."

Gurgaon's loss will be Gujarat's gain as a new 2 million cars-a-year facility is coming up in Mehsana. "We should take a final decision on Gujarat in the next-six weeks when land allocation is expected to happen, " Bhargava said.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Mar 2012 09:41

Horny issue
Extra strong horns needed for Indian drivers

NEW DELHI: German carmaker Audi makes special horns for its vehicles sold in India where local drivers hoot so much as they fight their way through chaotic traffic, the firm’s country director has revealed.“Obviously for India, the horn is a category in itself,” Michael Perschke, director at Audi India, told Monday’s Mint newspaper.“You take a European horn and it will be gone in a week or two. With the amount of honking in Mumbai, we do on a daily basis what an average German does on an annual basis.”
Perschke said the horns are specially adapted for driving conditions in India, a booming market where Audi is one of many foreign car brands competing for increasingly wealthy customers.
“The horn is tested differently – with two continuous weeks only of honking, the setting of the horn is different, with different suppliers,” he said.Perschke also added that so many Audi owners in India have personal chauffeurs that car interiors have been redesigned so that “you can be more in command from the rear seat

.”

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2012 12:59

Audi Q5 suv is selling strongly here. I see it more than equivalent bmw X series and definitely lot more than Merc suv.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2012 10:40

x-posting:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-ca ... lysis.html

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Mar 2012 11:48

thanks..

a bit of our own analysis. Good to see Nano increasing sales. They had a refresh release 2012 version and some attractive sales offers. Saw a couple of Nano only dealerships opened in rural towns - like Gobi and Sathyamangalam etc in Erode District.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 29 Mar 2012 07:26

Singha wrote:x-posting:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-ca ... lysis.html

~ 3 million passenger vehicle sales ( though that includes the exports too ), now who would've thought that just 10 years back ? I still have copies of 'Indian Auto' from early 90s when yearly passenger vehicle sales barely nudged 200 thousand/year, and that is on a good year.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 29 Mar 2012 14:06

Jhujar wrote:Horny issue
Extra strong horns needed for Indian drivers
NEW DELHI: German carmaker Audi makes special horns for its vehicles sold in India where local drivers hoot so much as they fight their way through chaotic traffic, the firm’s country director has revealed.“Obviously for India, the horn is a category in itself,” Michael Perschke, director at Audi India, told Monday’s Mint newspaper.“You take a European horn and it will be gone in a week or two. With the amount of honking in Mumbai, we do on a daily basis what an average German does on an annual basis.”
Perschke said the horns are specially adapted for driving conditions in India, a booming market where Audi is one of many foreign car brands competing for increasingly wealthy customers.
“The horn is tested differently – with two continuous weeks only of honking, the setting of the horn is different, with different suppliers,” he said.Perschke also added that so many Audi owners in India have personal chauffeurs that car interiors have been redesigned so that “you can be more in command from the rear seat
.”

Like the saying, you need 3 things to drive in India,

1. Good brake
2. Good horn
3. Good luck!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 29 Mar 2012 15:05

Yogi_G wrote:
Jhujar wrote:Horny issue
Extra strong horns needed for Indian drivers

Like the saying, you need 3 things to drive in India,

1. Good brake
2. Good horn
3. Good luck!

With

4. Good tyres of reasonable size
5. Good Chassis with good suspension which behaves well in braking muddly conditions
and above

6. Good driving habits with it been reinforced that Driving a vehicle in a public road is a responsibility and not a race track.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 29 Mar 2012 16:38

Groan. Addition to increasing noise pollution by an automaker. Can't they just eradicate horns? Decibel level enforcement is failing anyway. Not to mention all the ill effects of noise pollution are rising in numbers day by day.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Mar 2012 17:37

It is very interesting that in 21st century, we still look at 12th century aspects... especially capacity and road infrastructure, and space planning. we are big family people, with billions and growing.. this is not good if we keep growing without giving any concern to growing individual family setups.

http://www.thehindu.com/life-and-style/ ... epage=true

reduced size van may not be the concern, but reduced capacity of roads and cities, could affect future products and services.

for example, when we consider super duper highways, we have to think about multiple lanes. if a country X has 10 lanes, then a country like ours would require x^2 lanes.. going by the future expectations.. now there may be people, with chalta hai.. we are different, and we adjust. that is wrong.. our future kids would blame us badly.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Mar 2012 12:58

Saw a few of the new Swift Dezires with the small diky, I feel that the Dezire will soon see a huge drop off in demand since the boot looks really small and is just a little bigger than the Swift. Its main Selling Point was it was a reasonably priced Sedan with a good boot space. No other Sedan apart from the Indigo CS or Accent (petrol only) and recently the Fiesta Classic could compete at its price point. But people who want such a Sedan mainly do it for 2 reasons

1) Image of Bada Gaddi and

2) Wanting decent boot space.

The new Dezire in being built under 4 meters is not going to meet either criteria

I somehow see the Fiesta Classic whose Price has been drastically cut after the new Fiesta, Sales picking up.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 30 Mar 2012 13:23

Aditya_V wrote: I somehow see the Fiesta Classic whose Price has been drastically cut after the new Fiesta, Sales picking up.

It's going to be weird. The new Fiesta sales are abysmally low (less than 100 last month) and the Classic has always outperformed the new Fiesta. However the recent excise rate bands favour the new Fiesta with the 1.5L engine. They've also dropped the price of a the new Fiesta by almost a Lakh. But still i dont see Fiesta eating into Dzire's numbers. Sunny probably will.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 30 Mar 2012 14:58

The new fiesta looks bad bad bad. Tinnish feeling and weird curves. Saw a blue coloured one this morning.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Mar 2012 18:46

Sriman wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: I somehow see the Fiesta Classic whose Price has been drastically cut after the new Fiesta, Sales picking up.
It's going to be weird. The new Fiesta sales are abysmally low (less than 100 last month) and the Classic has always outperformed the new Fiesta. However the recent excise rate bands favour the new Fiesta with the 1.5L engine. They've also dropped the price of a the new Fiesta by almost a Lakh. But still i dont see Fiesta eating into Dzire's numbers. Sunny probably will.

No it does not to qualify for lower 12.36% Ed as opposed to 24.72% , you must have a Petrol Engine less than 1200cc or Diesel Engine less than 1500CC along with an Overall Body length less than 4 meters. The Fiesta Sedan can't be less than 4 meters so it not qualify for lower Excise duty. It is because of this 4 meter condition the new Dzire looks funny with its small boot.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Apr 2012 09:39

This decade is going to be that of the Hybrid cars. The first signs can be seen here.
http://www.jcarblog.com/2012/02/06/toyo ... t-tenfold/
According to Car Watch, Toyota had set a monthly sales target of 12,000 units for the car when it arrived to market.
Things didn't quite turn out that way. As the expression goes, there are some problems that are nice to have. The number of orders placed for the Aqua didn't just reach 12,000, they climbed to 120,000 between December 26th and January 31st, ten units for every one predicted. The article quotes Toyota as saying that they're "off to a wonderful beginning," and it's hard to disagree.
Toyota Aqua witha fuel economy 35 km/L
http://in.news.yahoo.com/photos/toyota- ... 19449.html

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Apr 2012 12:10

Fiat has a new car in US

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 01 Apr 2012 12:52

Acharya wrote:Fiat has a new car in US

The 500? Surprised they didn't bring the Abarth Punto targeted at the Mini crowd.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 01 Apr 2012 19:08

There is a Abarth 500 too. Fiat did the dumbest thing ever by hiring Jennifer Lopez for 500 ads there by killing half the (male) market.

vina · Post by **vina** » 02 Apr 2012 12:16

Hmm. Economic Times says that Tata Motors & M&M posted strong sales.
Nano sales grew by 20% to 10475 units , despite it being petrol only.

Now Alto and others will need to start shivering in their dhotis, if newer models with a boot that can open, more plush interiors etc start coming out kaching-kaching from Tata. If the diesel engine version comes out, that will deliver a killer blow. Suzuki has not been able to engineer a diesel engine until now!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Apr 2012 12:51

Acharya wrote:Fiat has a new car in US

If you mean the 500 then yes I saw that monstrosity in Jan this year - apparently Hertz was renting it out to Oiros visiting the Bay Area.