Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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Philip
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Philip »

An excellent very informtive lengthy paper on the enormity and challenges of the task of neutralising underground facilities,as we are nows eeing with Iran and surely exist also with Pak.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB372/index.htm

National Security Archive

Underground Facilities: Intelligence and Targeting Issues
U.S. Intelligence : Hiding of Military Assets by "Rogue Nations" and Other States a Major Security Challenge for 21st Century
U.S. Documents Describe Monitoring Effort Going Back to Early Cold War Years
National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 372
Posted - March 23, 2012

Xcpt:
Washington, D.C., March 23, 2012 – A central element of the current debate over how to deal with Iran's nuclear program has focused on the possible difficulty of destroying the Qom underground uranium enrichment facility via air strikes. However, documents posted today by the National Security Archive show that Qom is only the latest in a long series of alleged and real underground facilities that for decades have been a high priority challenge for U.S. and allied intelligence collection and analysis efforts, as well as for military planners.

The documents featured in this posting describe in detail the agencies and programs the U.S. government has brought to the task of identifying and assessing underground structures in foreign countries since World War II. Internal records indicate there are more than 10,000 such facilities worldwide, many of them in hostile territory, and many presumably intended to hide or protect lethal military equipment and activities, including weapons of mass destruction, that could threaten U.S. or allied interests.

The records (and introductory essay by Archive Fellow Jeffrey T. Richelson) also discuss the vast complexities of gathering and analyzing intelligence on these facilities, and detail several of the highly technical methods U.S. agencies have developed for the purpose over time.
Kanson
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kanson »

indranilroy wrote: Is that not a ducted fan?!

Edited: to display image correctly.
No, it was replied to the quote inserted in your reply. I thought I would wait for his reply. Maybe later.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by John »

Pranav wrote:
Also, if such systems are being used by the enemy, then a Mach 6 missile such as Prahaar would probably have a better chance than a Mach 3 missile like Brahmos.
A large missile at mach 3 will come at such a speed that AAA fire will not enough damage and the momentum will still assure a direct or close hit on the target. One of the reasons systems like Phalanx are being replaced by RAM.
hnair
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by hnair »

^^^ adding on :

- cue-ing a gun accurately on a heaving ship, particularly when maneuvering violently during an attack or anywhere above moderate sea conditions.
- multi-targeting of simultaneous threats from various directions

The gun based system might be a cheap solution for predictable trajectory, slower weapons like smart/dumb bombs or older gen sub-sonic AShMs.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Wonder what this test was about today

Brahmos supersonic cruise missile test fired successfully
"The missile was test fired from a ground mobile launcher from the launch complex-3 at about 1122 hours and the trial was successful,"
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Block 3 with new software per live fist
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm
ships leaving to intl waters near australia! I thought we would go all the way to intl waters near antartica.. two mangoes in one stone.. antarctia expedition to target - to be acquired by mid april.

go a5!!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

if we draw a line from australia to madagascar, and a fire from chandipur to the south, the intersection is around 5500km range.
a line from orissa to perth is around 5800km
so this is in line with the A5 stated range with designed payload of 5500km

from orissa to edge of antarctica is around 9000km. the A5 might make it with a much reduced payload which is of no use because A5's will be few and need to deliver full heavy payloads.

perhaps in future the A6 a all-composite 3 stage missile might finally deliver a 0.5t payload out to 12000km which will permit our SSBNs to patrol the vast southern IOR region freely while keeping most targets in range.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by dnivas »

bad grammar ?

India today tested BrahMos Block III version with advanced guidance algorithm was flight tested from ITR Balasore.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

dnivas wrote:
bad grammar ?

India today tested BrahMos Block III version with advanced guidance algorithm was flight tested from ITR Balasore.

Corrected. Thanks
Singha wrote:if we draw a line from australia to madagascar, and a fire from chandipur to the south, the intersection is around 5500km range.
a line from orissa to perth is around 5800km
so this is in line with the A5 stated range with designed payload of 5500km

from orissa to edge of antarctica is around 9000km. the A5 might make it with a much reduced payload which is of no use because A5's will be few and need to deliver full heavy payloads.

perhaps in future the A6 a all-composite 3 stage missile might finally deliver a 0.5t payload out to 12000km which will permit our SSBNs to patrol the vast southern IOR region freely while keeping most targets in range.
very good info. can you do the same for Beijing and Chengdu and where should we launch A-5 from?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

you can use tools->ruler in google earth to find the distances. chengdu & chongqing is around 1200km from the NE and Beijing around 2800km. from NE they are already in range of A3 and perhaps A2-P as well.

but A5 will give you the option of sitting in bangalore,kerala and pressing the red button - vastly more areas to hide assets in. northern part of karnataka/MP/Chatisgarh/MH/north AP/orissa and the western ghats have lot of desolate areas to vanish into.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by koti »

chackojoseph wrote:very good info. can you do the same for Beijing and Chengdu and where should we launch A-5 from?
Beijing, Chengdu from any place in India.

Harbin, from Hyderabad and above.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

koti wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:very good info. can you do the same for Beijing and Chengdu and where should we launch A-5 from?
Beijing, Chengdu from any place in India.

Harbin, from Hyderabad and above.
Thank You very much.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by koti »

I would like to know the distance at which spent stages of missiles like Agni are likely to fall at.
The spent stage impact from launch site on a maximum range shot will be good enough to begin with.

TIA.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

the 1st stage will likely fall downrange around 50-100km away.
the 2nd stage I am not sure it will make it to ground level or burn up along the way
the 3rd stage might burn up for sure as the RV needs re-entry shield to prevent that.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sudhan »

SaiK wrote:http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm
ships leaving to intl waters near australia! I thought we would go all the way to intl waters near antartica.. two mangoes in one stone.. antarctia expedition to target - to be acquired by mid april.

go a5!!
http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm

Radius around a point on the map.. :)
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kailash »

Kanson
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kanson »

If it is a simple ballistic missile all stages burn up within the boot phase. But if its like modern missile like Bulava, third stage of Agni 5 could be retained anywhere from the ascent phase till the descent phase.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by nachiket »

http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-googl ... ulator.htm

Can be used to calculate distance between two points on the map.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sudhan »

It has a censor warhead and could change the direction before 24 km.
CJ saar, I did not understand this one. Can you please clarify?
ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Spell check issues.
Sensor not censor.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

Hahahhaa.. The copy and paste mistake. A lot of my mistakes arise from the source itself. it is a shame. Sensor and Censor are ok with the spell check, so these mistakes pass through.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sudhan »

:)

I meant the 'changing direction' part. Does it mean that the missile can switch between targets when its upto 24 kms away from the target?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

too much of movie dhekoing eh..nice catch!, but quite apt for gdf>lm.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

Source

The army's vertical dive brahmos can be used by navy to hit aircraft carriers. :wink:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

looks like a last minute climb and steep S-dive complicates the situation for ciws guns and short range missiles by increasing the rate of displacement of the missile vs the ship?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by pragnya »

Image

courtesy : sayareakd via MP.

is that drdo designed active radar seeker?? can somebody clarify??
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by koti »

^^It could be the seeker of DRDO-IAI Barak8. I can't comment on the size from the pic.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by darshhan »

Guys , I have a question. Can we develop a supersonic cruise missile a la Brahmos with a range > 3000 kms ? Is it possible and if so what will be the size and cost implications ? You can also factor in international collaboration(Russia/Israel/etc).
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

Russia tested such a weapon in 1981, to replace IRBMs but cancelled in 1989 under INF treaty. their eventual goal was to make it hypersonic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-90

Russia truly has been the pioneer in long range CMs, in 1954 they worked out this vast beast known as the Burya, a 96 tons, 20m long ICCM powered by a solid rocket and ramjet for a range of 6000+ km @ mach3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burya
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/burya.jpg

it can be called an ancestor of yakhont.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by darshhan »

^^Awesome.Burya is some crazy shit though.

However KH-90 type weapon seems more feasible to me.And should be attempted by India.There is a need for this type of weapon.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by John »

That seeker might be for Brahmos.
darshhan wrote:Guys , I have a question. Can we develop a supersonic cruise missile a la Brahmos with a range > 3000 kms ? Is it possible and if so what will be the size and cost implications ? You can also factor in international collaboration(Russia/Israel/etc).
For such a range you need relatively large missile which will greatly increase the cost and size. A missile like that flying over china will easily get shot down due to its size and high altitude. It also raises the question what is advantage of that it is much more cheaper and effective to have a shorter range delivered by an airborne platform.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Karan M »

That seeker is not the Brahmos one (which uses another antenna) but that developed by RCI for the ABM program.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2011/12/te ... ekers.html
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

>> The turbojet-powered missile would cruise at Mach 2.5 to 3.0 at 20 km altitude over its 3000 km range. It was equipped with a 1 MT thermonuclear warhead and used inertial
>> navigation with data link updates.

we already have a better product Shourya for this. Mach6 @ 40km altitude and a potential range of 1500km with a 300kg payload. its mobile on land and ready for sea duty also.

S300/400 systems can intercept Mach3 @ 20km if their placement is right - ie tough in a tail chase but doable in a head-on or side intercept with enough warning from big radars to rise up ahead of the approach.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Austin »

Agni-V test in a fortnight: DRDO chief
NEW DELHI: India will join an elite group of nations such as the US, Russia and China with inter-continental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) when it tests the over 5,000-km-range Agni-V in a fortnight from now.

"The Agni-V will be tested sometime in the middle of April. The exact date has not been fixed, though," Defence Research and Development Organisation ( DRDO) chief Dr. V.K. Saraswat told a press conference at the defence exposition currently in progress here.

Saraswat said the Agni-V will be close to the American ICBMs.

India has in November last tested the 3,500-km-range Agni-IV missile, a technology that will help it to cross the 5,000-km-range barrier when Agni-V is tested.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

mashallah the close to american ICBMs indicates a low CEP of <= 100m and mostly composite incl the holy grail of 3 stage composite I dare hope.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

GD, Lets see. We know its 3+stages. The last one is a powered re-entry vehicle that can be operated in following modes: make up any velocity errors i.e. error correction, or added range, or BGRV stage.

The last one would be like Falcon vehicle.
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