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They depended on fellow NATO countries like Italy, France and UK to take care of Mountains. US Army's role was more to counter the Operational Manoeuvre Groups of Soviets in the plains. Hence, you see the 'heavy' side in tanks and guns even in so called Infantry divisions. They believed in light infantry divisions transitioning to the nature of warfare in the AOR.Singha wrote:> The only US Army unit that specialize in Mountain warfare is the Vermont National Guard's 3rd Battalion 172nd Infantry Regiment.
you mean the US has all of 900 people trained and equipped to operate in areas like higher reaches of ladakh? how did they plan to fight in the mountains of norway, sweden and italy incase of a soviet breakthrough?
this is the ofb initiative named "Arzu", as parent company made the product on T72 chasis and named it "Himalaya" for export purpose specially for Indian tender for tracked artillery.Snehashis wrote:ARZU SPG - Zuzana turret on Arjun chasis.
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BAE Systems ready to help India build Bofors gunsBAE Systems has said it is ready to provide assistance to India’s Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) in its endeavor to build artillery guns on the basis of the technology of the Bofors FH77 B02 howitzer, transferred to it as part of the aborted procurement in the 1980s. BAE Systems owns the howitzer unit of the erstwhile Swedish company.
Dean McCumiskey, Managing Director and Chief Executive of BAE Systems’ India operations told StratPost his company would be open to discussing any question of technical assistance the OFB might require, in its attempt to execute the designs and technology documentation transferred to it as part of the old Bofors howitzer purchase, cut short because of the infamous corruption scandal.
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Excessive force? Psy ops potential for our birader's across the border?Philip wrote:Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?
I see this as a clever and good thing to get the desired gun from Bofors without making the Congress tickle.pragnya wrote:was this posted??
Philip wrote:Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?
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sum wrote:MoD plans to invest Rs 15k cr in ordnance firm
Sending a strong signal to foreign arms suppliers often accused of adopting short cuts to bag lucrative military contracts, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) for the first time has invoked “integrity pact” to recover Rs 244 crore from Israel Military Industries (IMI) before blacklisting the company on corruption charges.
In 2007, the IMI emerged as the supplier of technology to produce bi modular charge system – a propellent required for ammunition – in India’s latest ordnance factory that was to come up at Nalanda at a cost of Rs 2,160 crore.
But, with allegations of corruption flying thick, the MoD on March 5 blacklisted IMI along with five other military firms.
Before blacklisting, the ministry invoked integrity pact to recover Rs 244 crore, clearly conveying to the arms lobby that “breach of contract terms” would not be tolerated, said an official. Almost six years ago, the defence ministry introduced integrity pact as an integral part of all defence deals worth Rs 100 crore and offset contracts worth more than Rs 300 crore. The aim was to remove any scope for foul play in high worth arms deals.
After reviewing the performance of ordnance factory board, Defence Minister A K Antony on Monday decided to pump in Rs 15,764 crore in the OFB over the next five years to upgrade its manufacturing and production capability.
Significantly, high investment in the OFB in the 12th Plan signals the government’s definitive shift towards self-reliance and gradually reducing dependence on foreign arms supplies.So, a Desi 155mm seems to be on its way and the Nalanda factory seems to have been revived with DRDO inputs since both foreign partners are banned!Some of the major OFB projects approved include a Rs 971-crore scheme to augment production capacity of T-90 tanks from the present 100 tanks to 140 tanks at Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi, Tamil Nadu; a Rs 378-crore project to produce large calibre artillery guns and a Rs 378-crore plan to manufacture spares for T-72 and T-90 tanks.
With no artillery purchase since the Bofors contract, the OFB claims to have developed long range artillery guns based on the original technology transfer agreement from Bofors.
The home-made guns are under trials and OFB plans to make 300 of them by 2015, sources said.
For the ammunition propellant, the defence ministry planned to set up a new ordnance factory at Nalanda as the proposal was in limbo for the last 11 years after the ministry blacklisted two foreign firms which were to transfer the crucial technology.
New outfit
The Nalanda ordnance factory was likely to become operational this year, an official said, adding that the pilot batch of bimodular charge systems had been assembled at ordnance factory in association with Defence research and development organisation and would be offered to Army for trials shortly.
The plant for bulk production will be set up by OFB using indigenous resources at half the cost proposed by foreign companies. The defence ministry relied on two foreign suppliers for the technology – South African firm Denel, whose subsidiary Somchem was to provide the technology, and subsequently IMI. But it blacklisted both following corruption charges.
It is a Jinxed firm. JV with that would have reduced the chances that it would have been selected. OTOH OFB making that can make virtually indigenous.Will wrote: BAE has a JV with Mahindra. Why cant Mahindra bid to make a gun? That way you will get Bofors tech as well as spare the govt the Bofors ghost
My father once used an RCL (anti tank gun) for a similar situation.Philip wrote:Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?
Grads were a decisive force in the Sino-Soviet border conflict during the "split" in the communist world. One salvo of Grad rockets would wipe out so many Chinese infantry that even the "human wave" concept touting Chinese leadership fell silent.Philip wrote:Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?
Vipul wrote:Slovak hopes to clinch $1-b howitzer gun deal.
The Slovak Republic is hoping to clinch nearly a $ one billion deal to supply 180 howitzer gun to India Army soon.According to Mr Marian Tomasik, ambassador of the Slovak Republic to India, the deal is expected to be sealed in the coming months. “We hope to get the howitzer gun deal from the Indian Army in the coming months,” Mr. Tomasik said at an interactive session on bilateral trade organised by the Bharat Chamber of Commerce here on Tuesday.
A howitzer is a weapon which has a short barrel and uses small propellant chargers at relatively higher trajectories.
Indian Army had earlier floated a tender for purchase of 180 (155-mm) howitzer guns. A Slovak Republic company and Germany-based Rheinmetall Defence had bid for the deal.
Defence and power would be the two key areas of focus for bilateral trade between the two countries. According to Mr. Tomasik, both Slovak and India should focus on enhancing co-operation in defence and power sectors in order to further expand the bilateral trade between the two countries.
Slovakian imports include pharmaceuticals, rubber, organic chemicals, garments, science apparatus and special machinery. It exports automobiles, oils and fertilizers, machines and spare parts. While India's total exports to Slovak Republic have grown from $36.24 million in 2006-07 to $56.78 million in 2010-11, total imports have grown from $19.81 million in 2006-07 to $88.03 million in 2010-11.
The meeting "expressed satisfaction'' at the progress of procurement cases for the 4th regiment of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles at a cost of Rs 4,100 crore and two regiments of the Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers for Rs 2,136 crore.
The new BrahMos regiment, with the missile's Block-III version that has "steep dive capability'' to take out targets hidden behind a mountain range, will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh, with the first three catering for the western front with Pakistan.
Going by the numbers below, two Pinaka regiments would be the following:keshavchandra wrote:Govt acts on General VK Singh's complaint, fast-tracks acquisition of weapons
The meeting "expressed satisfaction'' at the progress of procurement cases for the 4th regiment of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles at a cost of Rs 4,100 crore and two regiments of the Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers for Rs 2,136 crore.
The new BrahMos regiment, with the missile's Block-III version that has "steep dive capability'' to take out targets hidden behind a mountain range, will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh, with the first three catering for the western front with Pakistan.
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Pinaka is a complete MBRL system, each Pinaka battery consists of: six launcher vehicles, each with 12 rockets; six loader-cum-replenishment vehicles; three replenishment vehicles; two Command Post vehicle (one stand by) with a Fire Control computer, and the DIGICORA MET radar. A battery of six launchers can neutralize an area of 1000 m x 800 m.
The Army generally deploys a battery that has a total of 72 rockets. All the 72 rockets can be fired in 44 seconds, taking out an area of 1 km2. Each launcher can fire in a different direction too. The system has the flexibility to fire all the rockets in one go or only a few.
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The first Pinaka regiment was raised on February 2000. Each regiment consists of three batteries of six Pinakas each, plus reserves.
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Thanks.Prem Kumar wrote:Thanks srai. Love the way you keep up the stats!
While every indigenous purchase is welcome, though, given our Arty situation, we could easily accommodate many times this number.
Do you know how many regiments have been operationalized so far - is it 3?
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The first Pinaka regiment was raised in February 2000 [19]. A regiment consists of three batteries of six Pinakas each, plus reserves. It is expected that one regiment will be added each year as the oldest BM-21s are withdrawn from service. Tata Power's Advanced Material Division and Larsen & Tubro's Heavy Engineering Division were awarded a contract worth Rs 200 crore (US $45 million) by Army HQ, on 29 March 2006, to produce 40 Pinaka MRBLs each. [20] Tata Power's CEO, Rahul Chaudhry, stated that the first systems would be delivered within six months.
rohitvats wrote:^^^The fist Pinaka Regiment was raised in 2010 and not 2000 as given in the wiki article. That is an internet rumor that has persisted till date. What had happened in 1999 was that one of the Rocket Regiments (which employs BM-21) was earmarked as test-unit to work with DRDO on Pinaka - as was 43rd Armored for Arjun. This unit was also deployed in Kargil and Pinaka was test fired in Kargil as well.
The first two regiments had been raised in 2010 and two more were planned by 2012. There have been media reports that 3 Regiments are operational - chances are that all four are operational. These two Pinaka Regiments could be in addition to four existing units.
Ajay Sharma wrote:Questions to rohitvats:
M dear friend, you ask questions to which I myself have not been able to get definite answers. I have done some leg work on the topic and let me share the same.All this is guess estimate made after reading bits and pieces of news from here and there - so, please take it for FWIW.
a) What is the current composition of the Arty Divs in terms of Brigades & Regt. ratios plus the equipment they hold?
My guess is that it is 2 x Gun brigades+1 Composite Rocket Brigade (with Pinaka and Smerch). In addition, I expect there will be a composite missile brigade which will hold the Brahmos and Prahaar Regiments - as and when they reach the Command Level. I am of the opinion that Brahmos Regiment(s) will be held by the Artillery Divisions.
The BM-21 GRAD equipped Rocket Regiments may well be part of the composite Rocket Brigade with the Arty Divisions.
b) Are the Arty Divs a more consolidated form of the Corps Arty Brigades?
The most important question - trying to figure the above out took the most time. You see, apart from the Corps Arty brigades, IA also had (I) Arty Bdes under the AHQ. The Arty Divisions seem to have been formed by folding up (I) Arty brigades into the Arty Divisions. Now, it seems that the Arty Division come under Strike Corps - whether these Strike Corps continue to retain the Corps Arty Bde is something I don't know.
c) This is more a reconfirmation - Are there 3 Arty Divs? IIRC, it was you who had discovered based on scattered media reports regarding the same
Yes, there are 3 Arty Divisions - 40th under Western Command/41st under Southern Command/42nd under South Western Command
TIA You're welcome
Source: http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/India/- ... 15608.htmlThe Indian Army has decided to shift its 42 Artillery Division, part of the Jaipur- based South Western command, from Alwar, 160 km from Jaipur, to Bassi, 25 km from here, to "increase its operational preparedness", reports Mail Today.
The army has initiated the process of acquiring 4,607 bighas of land in Barwa and Parsoli villages of Bassi tehsil for the shift. Of this, 3,305 bighas is owned by the state government while the remaining 1,302 bighas are privately owned.
Thanks Rohitvats.rohitvats wrote:^^^The fist Pinaka Regiment was raised in 2010 and not 2000 as given in the wiki article. That is an internet rumor that has persisted till date. What had happened in 1999 was that one of the Rocket Regiments (which employs BM-21) was earmarked as test-unit to work with DRDO on Pinaka - as was 43rd Armored for Arjun. This unit was also deployed in Kargil and Pinaka was test fired in Kargil as well.
The first two regiments had been raised in 2010 and two more were planned by 2012. There have been media reports that 3 Regiments are operational - chances are that all four are operational. These two Pinaka Regiments could be in addition to four existing units.
On the Prithvi front - I think some sort of CBM will be required where we openly declare that Prithvi Missile Groups have been moved away from SFC and these will be used as Theater Ballistic Missiles (TBM). Otherwise, every time we move these missiles close to the border, pakees and american are going to freak out.Ajay Sharma wrote:^^
Quite possible about Prithvis with SFC. However, if A-2 and A-3 are going to be now held with SFC, then logically Prithvis would be reassigned to the Arty Divs as a battlefield weapon from its earlier strategic role
Thanks for finding out the location of the 42nd Arty Div. I thought it would have been Naseerabad (close to Ajmer) since there used to be an Inf Bde, (I) Arty Bde, (I) Engineer Bde and IIRC some Armoured/Mech Inf elements
Thanks....all you need to do is spend (waste, depending on who you askAjay Sharma wrote:^^
Man... Thats some research...!! Hats off to u
Prem, nothing was proved in 1999. It took DRDO till 2008 to perfect the system. And once it was done, order were immediately placed for 2 regiment worth of systems and sub-systems.Prem Kumar wrote: Thanks Rohitvats.
So, even though, the Pinaka proved itself in Kargil, it took a whole decade to raise 2 regiments. Especially in light of the known artillery deficiencies, which was also brought out during Kargil. This is downright criminal.