PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

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Prasad
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Prasad » 30 Mar 2012 17:30

PRC,France were WW2 winners? :shock:

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 18:07

Prasad wrote:PRC,France were WW2 winners? :shock:


RoC and even France, officially, were the winners of WW2.

I guess Indian textbooks never taught you there was a French occupation zone of Berlin after the war. I'll trust the American history on WW2 over the Indian version of WW2. Thank you.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Lalmohan » 30 Mar 2012 18:09

wong - indian schools teach extensively about the indian national army, if anything they downplay the role of the regular indian army in ww2

and yes, officially france was a winner, but no one in europe really won

Theo_Fidel

Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 30 Mar 2012 20:23

Did France even have a functional military at the end? Some victory.

WRT China lets keep in mind most of the victory actually belonged to the Nationalist Kuomintang who fought the Japanese to a standstill. Only after Japan surrendered did the Commies sweep in from the mountains and claim victory.

The nationalist army that defeated the Japanese, the true victor and one worthy of being praised in a limited way, was then annihilated and victory 'claimed' in 1949. The ironies are breath taking.

All this from a wong who does not live in China even apparently. Let them emigrate indeed.... :evil:

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby gakakkad » 30 Mar 2012 20:41

so china even won the ww2... was neil amstrong chinese by any chance? newton maybe ?

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Raja Bose » 30 Mar 2012 20:53

wong wrote:US text books teach us about Wellesley-educated Madame Chiang, Doolittle's Raid, Flying Tigers and General Stilwell, etc. This is American history textbooks taught to all American school children. They also mention the massive Indian defections to the Japanese side after the fall of Hong Kong and Singapore (I guess your textbooks skipped over that part) and Indian nationalists trying to join Hitler (Subhas Chandra Bose). Do Indian textbooks skip over the Hitler parts?? I'm seriously curious.


:rotfl:
That above statement itself proves that you are no product of an american education system - you are pretty much a product of the Chinese educational system and way of thinking since your natural tendency is to believe that every country's education system tries to hide stuff which they think others might consider embarrassing. Perhaps you thought that just like when we ask such questions to your biladel drones here and they fall silent, your above statement would shut up the Indian posters here.

Guess what biladel?! In India they teach us everything about the Indian National Army, Subhash Chandra Bose, how he met Hitler etc. And guess some more.....members INA and Subhash Bose even today are considered patriotic Indians and heroes becoz they fought for Indian's freedom. Unlike China which tries to get rid of its past (Cultural Revolution anyone?) and tries to project a false tinseltown glorious image which it thinks will endear itself to the west (like putting lipstick on a pig), India has no such stupid insecurities. The west may think Hitler was the worst, as far as Indians are concerned, the British were infinitely worst when they ruled, looted and starved India for over 200 years. It doesn't matter what other people think about Indian history, it matters much more what Indians think about Indian history - that is the difference between a autocratic country and a democratic country. I guess in China, the opposite is considered a hallmark of 'success' and 'innovation'...after all if you don't like the manufactured Chinese history, emigrate! :mrgreen:

Like I said many times here, by trying to mock us and engage in 'my d1ck is bigger' claims, our biladels drones inadvertently teach us more about the insecurities of present day China and their biases than if they openly did an honest introspection. So keep it coming biladels.... :mrgreen:

wong wrote:So you can minimalize the Chinese contribution to WW2 all you want. The proof is in the pudding, China's UNSC seat. And it's Indian urban legend that India was ever asked to join the UNSC. Think about it logically. The Indian defections plus that Hitler-thing, the British, for one, weren't going for any of it. Prove me wrong...

Man oh man! :rotfl: These drones crack me up every time. Talk about manufactured glory just like Huawei's innovation. BTW the Brits didn't want China in the UNSC either. And guess who provided the largest volunteer army in the WWII? Your chinese biladels?? :lol:

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby gakakkad » 30 Mar 2012 21:30

http://www.amazon.com/China-Albert-Eins ... 067401538X



In a series of biographical studies of Chinese physicists, Hu describes the Chinese assimilation of relativity and explains how Chinese physicists offered arguments and theories of their own. Hu's account concludes with the troubling story of the fate of foreign ideas such as Einstein's in the Chinese Cultural Revolution (1966-1976), when the theory of relativity was denigrated along with Einstein's ideas on democracy and world peace.




I googled einstein and china , hoping to find some benis material.. came across this interesting book..

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 21:38

Oh man...
I had to spend 2 pages trying to convince you China fought in WW2, something the US, France, Great Britain, Japan, Soviet Union and Germany all accepts. I'm not going to waste 2 more pages convincing you Hitler is NOT considered a "good guy" according to the US education system. That would be an exercise in futility.

Americans are obsessed with WW2. It's their "finest hour", "greatest generation", et cetera, etc. They study it constantly and make Hollywood films about it all the time. Like I said, I'll trust the American version of WW2 before I'll accept the Indian version since the American version is accepted by most credible historians and backed by thousands of hours of war footage.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 30 Mar 2012 21:46

wong wrote:So you can minimalize the Chinese contribution to WW2 all you want. The proof is in the pudding, China's UNSC seat. And it's Indian urban legend that India was ever asked to join the UNSC. Think about it logically. The Indian defections plus that Hitler-thing, the British, for one, weren't going for any of it. Prove me wrong...

You give far too much importance to the UNSC permanent seat, considering even your own nation has no balls to use it for anything other than defensively veto Tibet/Taiwan resolutions. Perhaps you think it's a lightning rod to use against us. But let's be serious. It didn't even help you do anything against us.

I'd like to know what it is that China has done in open defiance of UN and UNSC like the Indian nuclear tests or assorted spankings we've dished out to Pakistan in 1971 and 1999. Shooting your own people doesn't count. As I recall, China was the most shrill P5 member after the '98 tests, not counting little fishes like Norway or Australia. So then, what did your P5 membership help you do on those occasions ? Weapons embargoes by others (which are now gone) ? There's one against China since Tiananmen days...

On that matter, I'd also like to know what China has done for the UN per se. Peacekeeping missions ? Contributions ?

India got to get away with playing both sides - weaopns from Soviet bloc, investment from west, ignoring the existing power system when it suited it and get away with it, work to benefit it when it could, actively work towards ensuring a great influence for itself when it comes to taking the current system apart and replacing it :)

It's a cool entry to have on our business card and everything. But we've gotten away with murder without it anyway.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby shyam » 30 Mar 2012 21:48

wong wrote:Like I said, I'll trust the American version of WW2 before I'll accept the Indian version since the American version is accepted by most credible historians and backed by thousands of hours of war footage.

While you trust it blindly, you forget one thing - history is written by winners. It is upto you to take it blindly or follow the other dictum - trust, but verify.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 21:54

amit wrote:Innovation and new ideas thrive in an environment of free articulation. You can't have that in a authoritarian society.

And Wong seems to miss the fact that the first Asian country to do it all in modern times - Japan - never was authoritarian post World War. India has never been authoritarian since its recorded history! :-)

China is in a classic Catch-22. To move to the next level it needs innovation. But to get that the CPC needs to let go. Rock and hard place anyone? :-0

And in the meantime, the mantra is beg, borrow or steal (with emphasis on steal) other people's ideas and innovation. If you don't like it you can always emigrate!? :rotfl: :rotfl:


I would like to address this innovation "Catch-22" because that is some excellent BS. Too bad it's not backed by facts.

Some of the greatest inventions of the 20th Century came out of authoritarian governments. The Nazis gave us countless things from jet engines to assault rifles to rockets. The Manhattan Project was run by the Army Corp of Engineers, hardly a democracy. Let's look at all the innovations that came out of the labs of GE, AT&T, Apple, IBM and DuPont. Too bad none of those corporations are run like democracies. Most employees call Jobs a dictator. I won't even talk about all the innovations that came out imperial China.

This innovation Catch-22 sure is some feel good BS. It's just not true.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 30 Mar 2012 22:00

Folks, please stop telling wong to emigrate. He's already US based.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Gus » 30 Mar 2012 23:27

Therein lies your problem. Would it kill you to look at things independently instead of having to 'trust' somebody's version? Exactly where did the Chinese fight against which armies in WW2? Was it not mostly between KMT and imperial Japanese? Did any Chinese army even fight outside their then borders? I am open for new info here.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby sudarshan » 30 Mar 2012 23:49

So now things have veered over to the II world war and comrade Wong's "trust" of the American view of WW II, have they? If you ask the Russians, they will tell you that they are mightily miffed at how the US/UK successfully claimed credit for essentially doing nothing. Hitler's armies were on the run all over Europe from 1941 (Stalingrad) - from the Russian army. The western propaganda about how "General Winter" defeated the Germans is just that - propaganda, or more accurately, a half-truth. The full truth is, the Russian resistance at Kiev, Kursk, and Stalingrad was ferocious, and wore down even the mighty German SS troops. The Soviet Union did initially lose Kiev to the Germans, but regained it later.

Beyond Stalingrad, the Germans were on the run pretty much everywhere on the eastern front, from Ukraine and Poland, Albania and Romania, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, and eventually even in Germany itself (the part that later became East Germany). There's a reason why all these nations came under the communist orbit.

The western hope was that the Germans would destroy the USSR. When that didn't materialize, they decided they couldn't let the Russians take all the credit for defeating Nazi Germany, so they opened their "Second Front" at Normandy, with their usual narcissistic propaganda to back it up. In the end, it was still the Russians who took Berlin. The use of the nuclear option against Japan was equally unnecessary. The Russians were beginning to turn their attention on Japan after the German surrender, and Japan couldn't have held on alone anyway.

Surviving the Battle of Britain, and not buckling under the German Blitzkrieg, is the UK's sole genuine contribution to World War II. The rest of the British "victories" were accomplished by troops from British colonies, such as Egypt or India. India being the most populous colony, naturally contributed the most troops. Britain still hasn't paid off the war debt to India - no surprises there. If not for the ready manpower from her colonies, there was no way a country the size of the UK could have taken on the German war machine, which had troops from all over Europe fighting for it.

This is the reason why for a long time after WW II got over, the Russians were still referring to it as the "Great Patriotic War." Simply because they put in the bulk of the effort and took in the most casualties (normalized to their population). But their view of the matter never stood a chance against the American and British propaganda machinery - CNN and BBC. This is probably the "thousands of hours of war footage" that comrade Wong is referring to.

Sudarshan

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 31 Mar 2012 00:01

Gus wrote:Therein lies your problem. Would it kill you to look at things independently instead of having to 'trust' somebody's version? Exactly where did the Chinese fight against which armies in WW2? Was it not mostly between KMT and imperial Japanese? Did any Chinese army even fight outside their then borders? I am open for new info here.


The timeline is well documented below. As I wasn't even born yet in 1940 and wasn't an eyewitness, I ultimately do have to trust somebody's version of history, the American one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... at=desktop

Besides, let's talk about how democracy equals innovation. I need an Indian member to explain how Sputnik came out of Soviet Russia if democracy is a pre-requisite for innovation.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Mahendra » 31 Mar 2012 00:40

^ That is indeed a wong assumption, ********y isn't a pre-requisite for innovation. Sputnik did come out of ****** Russia and we must grant them that despite the fact that the ****** Russians did follow a fake form of communism.

PS: What's it with the forum software blanking out certain words?

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby member_20292 » 31 Mar 2012 01:38

A lot of the Indian posters above, seem to take great delight in berating and baiting our Chinese friends and posters.

That's not nice. China may be what it may be. It is our greatest rival.

But in todays day and age, one fights not by acting like the great kahuna on a page made of electrons...but by getting up in the morning, working hard as hell, and making sure that what one did during the day was good enough to beat your competitor.

So as Indians , lets do that. Fight the Chinese, sure, but by working towards wealth, goodness and prosperity. Not shaming them on an internet forum with arguments that make the writer sound like a whiny little female dog.

Let the Chinese be. We'll show em with the quality of our work..our strong social institutions and our democracy, peace-loving chaltha hai nature and our vegetarianism.

We were the number 1 country in the world, for 4250 of our 4500 years. It's time we get that rank back from the other fly-by-night operators.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Raja Bose » 31 Mar 2012 01:40

wong wrote:Besides, let's talk about how democracy equals innovation. I need an Indian member to explain how Sputnik came out of Soviet Russia if democracy is a pre-requisite for innovation.


And we can see how well that autocratic regime withstood the test of time eh? :rotfl:

BTW I saw you give the example of Apple as a hallmark of innovation. Guess what....in your glolious Chinese system, someone like Steve Jobs would have been shot or imprisoned, so there would have been no Apple. :lol:

wong wrote:I had to spend 2 pages trying to convince you China fought in WW2, something the US, France, Great Britain, Japan, Soviet Union and Germany all accepts.

Really?? The only people I hear saying that is the Chinese. Heck, Great Britain did not even consider the Chinese a participant and opposed their UNSC seat.

wong wrote: I'm not going to waste 2 more pages convincing you Hitler is NOT considered a "good guy" according to the US education system. That would be an exercise in futility.


My dear biladel wong, nobody considers Hitler a "good guy". Please read my post carefully (just like american education teaches you):
The west may think Hitler was the worst, as far as Indians are concerned, the British were infinitely worst when they ruled, looted and starved India for over 200 years.


In simple English the above means: For the west, Hitler was the worst. But for the Indians, Hitler was bad but the British were worse hence, Hitler at that point in time looked like the lesser of two evils. That does not imply that Hitler was considered a "good guy". Or the Japanese for that matter - the other Axis power, Subhash Chandra Bose approached. BTW why should I care about who is good or bad according to the US education system?? I am an Indian hence I care about the views of the Indian education system but, perhaps you are an American, in which case your blind parroting of Chinese glory becomes all the more hilarious. :mrgreen:

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby member_20292 » 31 Mar 2012 01:40

Wong,

youre right that even totalitarian regimes are innovative.

Given its information control laws, I'm not sure about current and potential Chinese competence in the knowledge management and information technology field , which is increasingly enormous part of our collective economies.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 31 Mar 2012 01:51

More on the PRC's UNSC veto power:
UNSC veto count by member
Veto power
China (ROC/PRC)

Between 1946 and 1971, the Chinese seat on the Security Council was the government of the Republic of China (from 1949 on Taiwan) during which its representative used the veto only once (to block the Mongolian People's Republic's application for membership in 1955 because the ROC considered Mongolia to be a part of China. This postponed the admission of Mongolia until 1960, when the Soviet Union announced that unless Mongolia was admitted, it would block the admission of all of the newly independent African states. Faced with this pressure, the ROC relented under protest. {So much for veto power}

After the Republic of China's expulsion from the United Nations in 1971, the first veto cast by the present occupant, the People's Republic of China, was issued in 25 August 1972 over Bangladesh's admission to the United Nations. As of December 2008, the People's Republic of China has used its veto six times; observers have noted a preference for China to abstain rather than veto on resolutions not directly related to Chinese interests.[10]


And of course, the UNSC resolutions against India:
UN resolutions and reports
Good luck enforcing them. 200 million Pakistanis are depending on you.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 31 Mar 2012 02:07

To further confuse our Chinese posters here are two Indians who, from their perspective, have diametrically opposite contributions to the Sino-Japanese war:
Dwarkanath Kotnis
Both China (1982 and 1992) and India (1993) have honored him with stamps.
The Chinese government continues to honour his relatives in India during every high-level official trip. His relatives (primarily sisters) were visited in Mumbai by:
the then Premier Zhou En-lai in 1950
the then President Jiang Zemin visited India in 1996, he sent flowers to the Kotnis family.
the then Premier Li Peng in 2001
the then Premier Zhu Rongji in 2002
Present President Hu Jintao in 2006[5]
Dwarkanath Kotnis is commemorated together with Dr. Bethune, and Scottish missionary and athlete, Eric Liddell in the Martyrs' Memorial Park (Lieshi Lingyuan) in Shijiazhuang, Hebei province, China.

Justice Radhabinod Pal
In 1966, the Emperor of Japan conferred upon Pal the First Class of the Order of the Sacred Treasure. Pal is revered by Japanese nationalists and a monument dedicated to him stands on the grounds of the Yasukuni Shrine, seen as a symbol of Japan's wartime militarism.[5] The monument was erected after Pal's death.

Judge Pal's typewritten book-length opposition to the decision was formally prohibited from publication by the Occupation forces and was released in 1952 after the occupation ended and a treaty recognizing the legitimacy of the Tokyo Trials was signed by Japan. Pal's publication had also been prohibited in Great Britain, and it remained unpublished in the United States as well.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby gakakkad » 31 Mar 2012 08:22

bangladesh is a UN member.. somehow the veto power did not work..

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby sha » 31 Mar 2012 10:47

A political crisis will not stop China
http://www.ftchinese.com/story/001043927/en

Whatever the wishful thinking of some in the west, we are not suddenly going to wake up and discover that the Chinese miracle was, in fact, a mirage.

However, in the world, some people do live on wishful thinkings.

My own scepticism about China is tempered by the knowledge that analysts in the west have been predicting the end of the Chinese boom almost since it began. In the mid-1990s, as the Asia editor of The Economist, I was perpetually running stories about the inherent instability of China – whether it was dire predictions about the fragility of the banking system, or reports of savage infighting at the top of the Communist party. In 2003, I purchased a much-acclaimed book, Gordon Chang’s, The Coming Collapse of China – which predicted that the Chinese miracle had five years to run, at most. So now, when I read that China’s banks are near collapse, that the countryside is in a ferment of unrest, that the cities are on the brink of environmental disaster and that the middle-classes are in revolt, I am tempted to yawn and turn the page. I really have heard it all before.

That's some one who learns from his past wrong judgements.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Dhiman » 31 Mar 2012 11:56

wong wrote:The Nazis gave us countless things from jet engines to assault rifles to rockets.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Rockets were first developed by Chinese. Later on Tipu Sultan in India developed the precursor of modern missile and used it in a battle against the British East India company. The British took a great interest in Tipu Sultan's rocket and further developed (or actually copied) it into the "Congrave Rocket". the Congrave Rocket then lead to rapid development in rocket technology into what it is today.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wrdos » 31 Mar 2012 12:02

Raja Bose wrote:Really?? The only people I hear saying that is the Chinese. Heck, Great Britain did not even consider the Chinese a participant and opposed their UNSC seat.


BTW, the Great Britain and the world as well did not even consider India as a country by then, right?

Sir, the result is more important. China was, is and will be owning the UNSC permanent seat, according to her devotion in the WW2. Furthermore, the Chinese fights against the US in the Korean War, against the Soviet in the Sino-Soviet border, won China the reputation of a great Asia and World political and military power, as early as in the 1950s and 1960s. A status India could even obtain by now.

Somebody here are boasting that India can get aid from both Soviet and the US. Sir, it was not because India was strong, rather than the opposite. We could find easily 100 other countries who could achieve the same.

Sir, your victories against the dirty poor and vulnerable Pakistan or Sri Lanka (both former Indias but smaller) won you nothing significant in the world stage. You need fight and win at least a single power before being recognized as a power.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Singha » 31 Mar 2012 12:15

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... sfeed=true

"He made himself look like someone who could save the world," said He Shu, a Chongqing historian. "[But] his 'Sing red, strike black' campaign was exactly like the methods of the cultural revolution in mobilising public opinion and abandoning the legal system." That did not make Bo a leftist, he added: "I think he was an opportunist. People like him don't believe in anything except their personal interests."

Critics accuse Bo of flouting even basic legal safeguards and running the municipality of 32 million people – almost the population of Canada – as a fiefdom.

"Many Chongqing residents feel the city is safer and more beautiful now, but Germany under Hitler was the safest in its history," said lawyer Li Zhuang.

The anti-gang campaign saw "crazy and massive detentions" of people who were mostly innocent, said Li. He was one of them. His client, alleged triad boss Gong Gangmo, said he confessed after more than a week of torture. But when Li used the testimony in Gong's defence, he too was arrested, accused of falsifying evidence and strapped into a "tiger chair" – a sleep-deprivation device – for three days and nights.
.....
Eighteen-year-old Zhu Guilin said he usually preferred pop music, but relished competing with his class in the red song competitions that swept Chongqing at Bo's behest. "It reminds people living now to never forget what happened before. I don't know about others, but to me, singing red songs gave me the inspiration to make a bigger contribution to the city," he said.

The singers who once crowded parks and squares – often government workers who had little choice, or pensioners with time to spare – have mostly given up or turned to other tunes. Chongqing TV, which axed adverts and lively evening fare in favour of political programming, is frenziedly overhauling its schedules again. :mrgreen:

...........

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Singha » 31 Mar 2012 12:19

apparently his wife was involved in the suspicious death of a british businessman as well.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... a-bo-xilai

as usual in asian elites, his children attend the playing fields of harrow and eton (hopefully with better grades than Yuvraj got :mrgreen:)

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Raja Bose » 31 Mar 2012 12:25

wrdos wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:Really?? The only people I hear saying that is the Chinese. Heck, Great Britain did not even consider the Chinese a participant and opposed their UNSC seat.


BTW, the Great Britain and the world as well did not even consider India as a country by then, right?


And that has what to do with the Chinese getting a UNSC seat? :-? If one were to judge fairly, it is Taiwan which deserves the UNSC permanent seat as it originally had, not PRC. But then beg, borrow or steal seems to be PRC's national motto. After all end justifies the means, right? :roll:

But on the other hand I keep hearing a lot of concern from our Chinese biladels on this thread as to how they are perceived in the west with one of them neatly defining history as being, whatever version of events is accepted by American historians - insecure much? :rotfl:

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 31 Mar 2012 12:25

wrdos wrote:BTW, the Great Britain and the world as well did not even consider India as a country by then, right?

Explain. Hint: Olympic Games.
Sir, your victories against the dirty poor and vulnerable Pakistan or Sri Lanka (both former Indias but smaller) won you nothing significant in the world stage. You need fight and win at least a single power before being recognized as a power.

Pakistan is China's and America's pet, armed by the two of you, and kicked around by us. I'm curious. Why didn't you come in and help them ? Isn't your friendship deeper than the deepest ocean and higher than the highest mountain ? What about this handsome couple ?
Image
Or this virile leader ?
Image
How can you not help them in their time of need ?

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wrdos » 31 Mar 2012 13:01

Suraj wrote:Explain. Hint: Olympic Games.

So what? Scotland and Wales join Olympic every 4 years now, right?

Sir, please don't deny the facts.

1. India was not an independent country but simply a British colony, during and right after the WWII.
2. The British Indian armed forces had almost all of their mid to high level officers for the British.
3. The sacrifice of the Indian soldiers in the WWII, I really appreciate it, was counted as British rather than Indian.

And many people here are boasting even the Opium war, as if it was a victory of India over China.

Sir, such statements won you more laughter than pride or respect that you expected.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wrdos » 31 Mar 2012 13:08

And your victory against Pakistan, or another vulnerable country that "supported by US and/or China", is not significant as you thought. Tons of such victories can be found among the third world countries especially in Africa.

I would repeat once more, you need to win a power to be recognized as a power.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Singha » 31 Mar 2012 13:30

AL hundi reporting on its master
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true
BEIJING, March 31, 2012
China detains six people, shuts websites over coup rumours

ANANTH KRISHNAN

Chinese authorities said on Saturday they had detained six people and closed down 16 websites for spreading rumours on the Internet of an attempted coup in Beijing earlier this month. They also announced new restrictions to “punish” two popular Twitter-like microblogging services.

The 16 websites were shut down for “fabricating or disseminating online rumors” of “military vehicles entering Beijing and something wrong going on in Beijing”, the State Internet Information Office (SIIO) said in a statement reported by the official Xinhua news agency.

Six microbloggers were also detained for spreading this information online, the Beijing Municipal Bureau of Public Security, the police authority, said, adding that “an undisclosed number of people who had disseminated similar rumours on the Internet were also admonished and educated”.

China’s two most popular Twitter-like microblogging services, Sina and Tencent weibo which boast more than three hundred million users, were abuzz with rumours of political infighting among China’s leaders for much of the past month, sparked by the political scandal surrounding the ousting of Politburo member and Chongqing Party Secretary Bo Xilai.

With the central government releasing little information on Mr. Bo’s fate following the brief one-line sentence announcing his removal on March 15, rumours proliferated.

The online speculation reached fever-pitch on the night of March 19, when U.S.-based newspapers linked to the banned Falun Gong group reported of an attempted coup and gunshots being heard in central Beijing. This was followed by some Chinese microbloggers posting pictures on weibo of military vehicles on Beijing's main avenues. The photographs were later found to have been taken from rehearsals for a military parade in 2010, while the normalcy of life in the Chinese capital and President Hu Jintao leaving on overseas visits shortly thereafter suggested that the speculation was without basis.

The SIIO said the rumours had “a very bad influence on the public” and the websites were closed “in accordance with laws” for failing to stop their spread. Sina and Tencent weibo, on which most of the rumours spread, had been “criticised and punished accordingly” by the authorities, the statement said.

Both microblogging services on Saturday suspended commenting functions that allow users to leave their own comments on others’ posts, a feature that is popular on both microblogs but not offered on Twitter.

The move was an apparent attempt to curb online discussions and send a warning to both services.

Tencent said in a statement that it would suspend the commenting function until April 3 “to clean up rumours and other illegal information”, while Sina released a similar statement also announcing it would suspend comments for the same period of time.

Beijing police authorities also warned Internet users in a statement on Friday “to abide by laws and be vigilant against online rumours”.

The authorities’ response to clamp down on rumours brought wide criticism from many microbloggers on Saturday, with calls for an approach that provided more transparency and access to information rather than imposed further restrictions.

“Can you stop rumours by blocking comments?,” Zhang Xin, the CEO of SOHO China, one of the country’s biggest real estate developers, wrote to her more than 3.25 million followers on Sina Weibo.

“The best way to prevent rumours is to have openness and transparency,” she said. “The more you stop the news, the more rumours you will have.” Within hours, the message was forwarded by more than 11,000 people.

Suraj
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 31 Mar 2012 13:37

wrdos wrote:
Suraj wrote:Explain. Hint: Olympic Games.

So what? Scotland and Wales join Olympic every 4 years now, right?

Sir, please don't deny the facts.

Additional fact: China wasn't a country until Oct 1 1949. It did not exist as a political entity with a recognized leadership until that day, and was as nebulous an entity as India was.

India existed as one from Aug 15 1947.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 31 Mar 2012 13:42

wrdos wrote:And your victory against Pakistan, or another vulnerable country that "supported by US and/or China", is not significant as you thought. Tons of such victories can be found among the third world countries especially in Africa.

So much for being ironclad allies, always ready to help your friends in need, of course. Arm them, sing their praises and then walk away when they get taken to the barn. You have lots of friends and allies, don't you ?

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wrdos » 31 Mar 2012 13:47

So you accept that India was not an independent country during and after the WWII?

:D As for China, I respect your right of owning a personal opinion. But the fact is China is recognized by the international community as a founding country of the UN with a permanent seat in the UNSC, a club of 5 major winner countries of the World War II.

Suraj wrote:Additional fact: China wasn't a country until Oct 1 1949. It did not exist as a political entity with a recognized leadership until that day. India existed as one from Aug 15 1947.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 31 Mar 2012 13:54

wrdos wrote:So you accept that India was not an independent country during and after the WWII?

:D As for China, I respect your right of owning a personal opinion. But the fact is China is recognized by the international community as a founding country of the UN with a permanent seat in the UNSC, a club of 5 major winner countries of the World War II.

Suraj wrote:Additional fact: China wasn't a country until Oct 1 1949. It did not exist as a political entity with a recognized leadership until that day. India existed as one from Aug 15 1947.

India wasn't an independent country in 1944. Neither was France. China wasn't a country at all - it was a collection of communist/nationalist/Japanese/warlord/lawless regions. All that existed was a Chinese representative at the table, same as France, who were under German rule. The 'international community' didn't even recognize the rulers of the Chinese landmass until 1971.

As for the Opium Wars, it was between UK and China, not India. Yes, many Indian companies and people, including some well known modern business dynasties, benefited by making a lot of money from that trade. So what ?

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby shyam » 31 Mar 2012 14:02

The drones who talk schlong about the UN security membership should know what India did for People's Republic of China.

India moves resolution supporting People's Republic of China's admission into the United Nations [U.N.]
At the fifth session of the United Nations General Assembly held at Flushing Meadows in 1950, India introduced a resolution supporting entry of the Communist-ruled People's Republic of China [P.R.C] into the United Nations. This rare video clip, below, shows India's then permanent representative to the United Nations [U.N], Mr. B.N. Rau1 reading out the text in support of P.R.C.


There is a video of that motion in that page.
Does anyone know how can I embed that into BR? I can not get the ID of that video.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wrdos » 31 Mar 2012 14:06

Sir, then India is a collection of Congress party/people's party/communists/lawless rebelling regions/Chinese and Pakistan occupied regions (according to your viewpoints of the border), right?

The current Chinese government was not a ruler of China until 1949, and not allowed into the UN as a representative of China until 1971.

But China as a country, is a founding country of UN as a winner of World War 2, while India is neither.

You can deny it, but facts will never change. Sorry I don't have more time to waste on this topic anymore.

Have a nice day, bye.

Suraj wrote:India wasn't an independent country in 1944. Neither was France. China wasn't a country at all - it was a collection of communist/nationalist/Japanese/warlord/lawless regions. All that existed was a Chinese representative at the table, same as France, who were under German rule. The 'international community' didn't even recognize the rulers of the Chinese landmass until 1971.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 31 Mar 2012 14:17

wrdos wrote:But China as a country, is a founding country of UN as a winner of World War 2, while India was neither.

No, a Chinese reprensentative was present at the UN founding. The same person (Chiang) did not even have control over China at the time. And as it turned out, he never did. Between the dissolution of the Qing Empire in 1911 and Oct 1 1949, there existed no de jure administrative entity over the Chinese mainland for any reasonable duration: there was no country. In India's case, someone always had coercive control over all of the landmass - either from London or New Delhi.

I'm not sure how different political parties amount to no country. Of course, China is not democratic, so you probably have no idea what multiple political parties mean. Would you also state that the US is not a country but a collection of Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, redneck etc regions, for example ?

Fact: India has only ever seen territories integrated amicably or by force, since Aug 15 1947. Examples:
* Jammu & Kashmir (war against Pakistan)
* Junagadh (peaceful accession)
* Hyderabad (war against Nizam)
* Goa (war against Portugal)
No territory has successfully seceded formally, ever.

Lawless regions ? Any p*ss-filled alleyway in Wuxi would qualify for that term too.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 31 Mar 2012 16:51

^^^^^

Is this some sort of Chinese history "mash-up" made by Indians ???

The warlord era that followed the collapse of the Qing Dynasty had long ended. Chiang had already consolidated power in China around himself, the KMT, and the Republic of China by the start of the war. (Yes, Mao was around then but he did not have political control of China, just like your Naxalites today.) In addition, Chiang was a recognized head of state by all the world major powers. As my picture from the last page showed, he obviously had a seat at the table.


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