Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 03 Apr 2012 08:06

The Significance of the Zardari Visit: Pakistan Watch Blog

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 Apr 2012 08:27

Opinion in "The Hindu"
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/ar ... epage=true
This is the drumbeat I was talking about.

Peace within the region is an essential requirement for India to continue on its upward path. It must make renewed efforts to convince its neighbours that it poses no threat to them. It still has to fully convince them that it is ready to honour their independence and separate personality...India can live with the present state of affairs, yet it stands to benefit greatly from a transformed relationship. It needs to take the initiative and to lay at rest the fears of the military in Pakistan....Dr. Manmohan Singh must pay a return visit to Pakistan. It would be an occasion to announce agreement on some specific issues like Siachen and Sir Creek. More importantly, he could launch some major new initiatives, like reviving the offer of a No-War Pact and a Treaty of Peace and Friendship. Such formal agreements, duly supported by the international community, would effectively allay the fears of the Pakistan military.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Apr 2012 08:32

^^ Is Salman Haider a ex-Indian FS or a Paki FS, going by the trash put out in the article?

How do hardened diplomats who have seen Paki perfidy at its best write such BS? Somehow, MKB seems to have missed out on the party here to suggest more "radical" ideas to "re-assure" poor innocent, babe-in-the-wood Pak.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 03 Apr 2012 08:45

...allay the fears of the Pakistan military.

Oh we should be allaying "fears" of PakMil, what about unarmed Indian citizens?

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Apr 2012 08:59

The pious hope in the Land of the Pure yesterday:

Pakistan an emerging market for investment

Today the events of the past week in the “Commercial Capital” of the Islamic Republic bring out the stark reality:

24 killed in week of violence in Pakistan's Karachi

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 Apr 2012 09:08

US seems to have offered $10 Million for "providing information" about Hafiz Saeed. Isnt he getting interviewed every other day? Even appeared in a program with MS Aiyar a few weeks back.

http://www.rewardsforjustice.net/index. ... ge=english

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Apr 2012 09:50

Yes, http://www.livemint.com/2012/04/0222565 ... Saeed.html

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Apr 2012 10:09

sum wrote:^^ Is Salman Haider a ex-Indian FS or a Paki FS, going by the trash put out in the article?

How do hardened diplomats who have seen Paki perfidy at its best write such BS? Somehow, MKB seems to have missed out on the party here to suggest more "radical" ideas to "re-assure" poor innocent, babe-in-the-wood Pak.

Turds like Salman Haider know that MMS and INC are last chance to get more to strengthen the TSP for future forays of the kabila.

INC is last barrier standing for reconquista which will happen as the conquista was with fire and sword.

Appeasing the kabila will not help.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 03 Apr 2012 10:36

I have always felt that the twin myths will be periodically propagated through a pliant bunch of media dalals, think tanks and some woolly headed "intellectuals". There is a constituency even in the highest realms of the babudom and political circles that engages in this type of fantasy. In fact, the much maligned Indian political class has a far better record of realistic thinking despite public posturing than some of these babus.

I am not surprised by the likes of MKB or Salman articulating such views

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Apr 2012 11:02

Anujan wrote:Opinion in "The Hindu"
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/ar ... epage=true

The article is by Humayun Khan and Salman Haider. I don't know why Indians allow their names to be attached to Packee stuff in this Fai-esque manner

(Humayun Khan is a former Foreign Secretary of Pakistan; Salman Haidar is a former Foreign Secretary of India.

But having said that I think India should announce agreement on Sir Creek and Siachen

"We agree that Pakis can go stuff themselves"

To that extent I would not criticize the views in the article.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Apr 2012 11:15

Why cant we all just wish for peace in the Indian Sub continent, this can be simply achieved by.

1) Pakistan withdrawing from occupied Kashmir and agreeing that China should vacate all areas of J&K

2) Pakistan agrees not to make fraudulent claims on Sir Creek.

3) Pakistan agreeing for Azad Sindh and Azad Baluchistan

4) All United Jihad Council members along with Dawood Ibrahim and ISI, TSP generals involved with them to be handed to representatives of Bajrang Dal to treat them as fit.

See peace in the Sub continent is so easy with Aman ki Asha.

partha · Post by **partha** » 03 Apr 2012 11:15

Salman Haidar is also father in law of Suhasini Haidar who is an anchor and journalist with CNN IBN.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 03 Apr 2012 12:13

Green on green

At least 5 killed, 27 injured in sectarian clashes in Gilgit city of northern #Pakistan; reports of a grenade attack & firing.

Rezaul Hasan Laskar, PTI correspondent in Bakistan, tweets

The new thing for me is clashes. Are the Shia finally confronting the sunni wahhabism?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 Apr 2012 12:28

whether by accident of design, this mix of indian bhai-chaara/chai biskoot and "intransigence" on actually agreeing to anything the paquis want is causing them increasing amounts of taqleef and cognitive dissonance. this frustration seems to boil over into overt displays of mijjile prowess - as long as it stays green on green and does not cross the border, i am all in favour of it

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 03 Apr 2012 14:42

Aditya_V wrote:Why cant we all just wish for peace in the Indian Sub continent, this can be simply achieved by.

1) Pakistan withdrawing from occupied Kashmir and agreeing that China should vacate all areas of J&K

2) Pakistan agrees not to make fraudulent claims on Sir Creek.

3) Pakistan agreeing for Azad Sindh and Azad Baluchistan

4) All United Jihad Council members along with Dawood Ibrahim and ISI, TSP generals involved with them to be handed to representatives of Bajrang Dal to treat them as fit.

See peace in the Sub continent is so easy with Aman ki Asha.

+1

I have always been baffled as to why most of the Indians in the media are always defensive whenever a Paki makes a statement like 'why can't India agree to solving the Kashmir issue' with an implication that India should hand over Kashmir to them. Same for Siachen and Sir Creek.

I wish our guys would go on the front foot with the retort -

Yes we also want a solution. So when are you going to vacate POK?
We don't understand what is there to solve about Siachen. You are in illegal occupation of POK in the first place.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 03 Apr 2012 14:47

Lalmohan wrote:whether by accident of design, this mix of indian bhai-chaara/chai biskoot and "intransigence" on actually agreeing to anything the paquis want is causing them increasing amounts of taqleef and cognitive dissonance. this frustration seems to boil over into overt displays of mijjile prowess - as long as it stays green on green and does not cross the border, i am all in favour of it

+1, I hate to admit it but this is one thing I am in total agreement with Mani Shankar Aiyar. He said that all pakis will unite if there is a threat from India otherwise they'll quarrel with each other. (Bakistan defines itself as not India and as soon as India stops bothering about Bakistan, the whole idea of Bakistan becomes absurd.) The best way to deal with Pak-jabis is to ignore them, treat them like Somalia with N. Weapons and not like the younger brother who needs to be persuaded to not fight anymore.

RCase and Aditya_V ji,

The problem with that line of argument is that if there is discontent in our house, all sorts of people will want to become "cashmere expert". I think India should make Kashmir as much independent as it can within the India Union. What we need is to win over the people in Kashmir. The militancy has been crushed and I hope we cease this opportunity to defeat the strain of separatism and include them in the mainstream.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 03 Apr 2012 15:35

Roperia wrote:The problem with that line of argument is that if there is discontent in our house, all sorts of people will want to become "cashmere expert". I think India should make Kashmir as much independent as it can within the India Union. What we need is to win over the people in Kashmir. The militancy has been crushed and I hope we cease this opportunity to defeat the strain of separatism and include them in the mainstream.

What is "independent"? Are they not independent enough now? Do you know about Article 370?
Why Kashmir should be independent and the need for to "win them over". Why not other people? Can you define in what way they can be more independent than they are now within Indian Union. Do you really think it has to do with so called independence and not due to religion.?

I think the above argument is a self goal. JMT no offense

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 03 Apr 2012 16:06

Normally I don't post stuff like this but it made me laugh loud. Indians are known to search for things like "aun^ty s3x" but the below is just crazy.

Some months ago, google had ranked pakistan as the number one country with most searches for BP material. At that time I ignored that news until yesterday I found this video which talks about some of the search terms they've been using. Check this out:

"h0rse s3x" in 2004
"d0ggy s3x" since 2007
"rap3 pictures" between 2007-09
"rap3 s3x" since 2004
"ch!ld s3x" between 2004-07
"animal s3x" since 2007
and...

"cam3l s3x"

Interesting title for the video don't you think?

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 03 Apr 2012 16:31

@harbans, VikasRaina, brihaspati

Green on green warfare is not going to cause self-destruction. My point is that the greens will always be here. It is a fact of islam. The greens need an enemy; a perpetual enemy. This leaves possibility of two situations: 1) Greens against green 2) Greens against non-muslims.

If you(india) have the will power and the capability to remove the greens off the face of the earth then fine!! If you don't have it then forget about engaging in a short term battle against the greens because it serves no purpose in the long run. In this situation, all you can do it "divert" the greens. Yes, that is what the americans have been doing in the middle-east for so many decades. They used to have a control over the greens until 2001.

Similarly, the pakistanis need an enemy. If india does not give pakistan an enemy(balochistan, iran, pushtuns, sindhis etc) then pakistan will find its enemy in the nation state of india.

The greater wisdom here is that india cannot defeat pakistan because the later is cultivated by the chinese and the americans (Do you think india can take on the pak-china-US combine?). The cheenkis and the albinos created and maintained the india v/s pakistan equation because they don't want either one of these nations to interfere outside of south-asia. By refusing to engage with the pakistanis, india is slowly trying to come out of this equation.

The gujaral doctrine assists indias efforts to disengage from the pakistanis. There is no benefit in causing abnormalcy to a nation state that is already abnormal.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Apr 2012 16:47

nvishal wrote:@harbans, VikasRaina, brihaspati

Green on green warfare is not going to cause self-destruction. My point is that the greens will always be here. It is a fact of islam. The greens need an enemy; a perpetual enemy. This leaves possibility of two situations: 1) Greens against green 2) Greens against non-muslims.

If you(india) have the will power and the capability to remove the greens off the face of the earth then fine!! If you don't have it then forget about engaging in a short term battle against the greens because it serves no purpose in the long run. In this situation, all you can do it "divert" the greens. Yes, that is what the americans have been doing in the middle-east for so many decades. They used to have a control over the greens until 2001.

Similarly, the pakistanis need an enemy. If india does not give pakistan an enemy(balochistan, iran, pushtuns, sindhis etc) then pakistan will find its enemy in the nation state of india.

The greater wisdom here is that india cannot defeat pakistan because the later is cultivated by the chinese and the americans (Do you think india can take on the pak-china-US combine?). The cheenkis and the albinos created and maintained the india v/s pakistan equation because they don't want either one of these nations to interfere outside of south-asia. By refusing to engage with the pakistanis, india is slowly trying to come out of this equation.

The gujaral doctrine assists indias efforts to disengage from the pakistanis. There is no benefit in causing abnormalcy to a nation state that is already abnormal.

Pray tell me why allow Pakis into India, it serves no benefit, I agree we should look benevolent and not actually be so.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Apr 2012 16:57

A_Gupta wrote:Yes, http://www.livemint.com/2012/04/0222565 ... Saeed.html

It appeared in the NYT too. But I was struck by the use of the phrase: "Indian-occupied Kashmir", normally NYT casts it as Indian-administered Kashmir. Given that NYT is the mouthpiece of US govt foreign policy, I wonder of there is a deal between US and MMS/Sonia, namely, they, as rulers of India have accepted that Kashmir is "occupied" by India in return for US making some noises about Hafeez pig? Or is it the case of bad editing given that one of the authors of the report is a Paki, Waqar Gilani?

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 03 Apr 2012 17:06

Hafeez bounty is just quid-pro-quo for Indian help on Iran front. Very much like USA to offer a "promise of action" in exchange for "actual action" from India.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/10-mi ... ore-193386

Wendy Sherman, the United States under secretary of state for political affairs, announced the reward for Mr Saeed, described as the leader of Lashkar-e-Taiba, during a visit to India on Monday. She also announced $2 million for information leading to the capture of Hafiz Abdul Rahman Makki, Mr Saeed's brother-in-law.

This lady, Wendy Sherman was interviewed yesterday on NDTV and doing all sort of spin on how boycotting Iranian oil is "in the interest of Indians who should diversify their energy supply anyway". I don't think she spoke about Hafeez Saeed in the interview.

And suddenly today we hear her announce the bounty. I think it's just a carrot to India to toe US line on Iran.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 03 Apr 2012 17:07

Aditya_V wrote:Pray tell me why allow Pakis into India, it serves no benefit, I agree we should look benevolent and not actually be so.

Some parts of north india are ethnically and culturally connected to pakistan. Most of this collaboration(aman ki asha type ideas) is done unconsciously because it comes natural to them.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Apr 2012 17:24

MFN status to India of little benefit to Pakistan claims The LaWhore Chamber of Commerce and Industry

Why is that (you ask)?

...would be of little benefit to Pakistan unless and until all Pakistan-specific Non Tariff Barriers (NTB) are removed and the core issues are addressed.

What Core issues and why is LCCI (not to be confused with BCCI) concerned about it?

...given the size of the two economies and trade level, Indian firms are likely to gain much more than Pakistani businesses. This is simply about export competitiveness and level of readiness to participate in international markets. This is where India has advantage over Pakistan

He said there were numerous conditions, Pakistani exporters have to meet in order to get the shipments cleared which include agriculture permits, Indian standard of quality, licensing requirement for import of vehicles, textile specific barriers, health and safety regulations and many more

...rigid application of Sanitary and Phytosanitary in India concerning food exports as well as compliance with labeling, testing and certification

It is believed most of these restrictions and requirements are Pakistan-specific whereas we give much farer treatment to Indian exporters

And, to top the list of grouses, here's one to beat others:

It appears for Pakistani exporters, the compliance with export documentation, procedures and standards is made very cumbersome

So, how can the "bigger" Indian industry help?

it was the need of the hour Indian business community should actively and effectively lobby their government to expeditiously alleviate fears of Pakistani business that many NTBs on the Indian side were Pakistan-specific

So, please Indian businesses. Please be kind to your paki counterparts. Relax your standards and the procedures. Just take our word for it. Since you are the "bigger brother", kindly level (or preferably tilt) the playing field in paki favor. Lobby your evil government. And, please solve the cashmere issue. It is our jugclear (rhymes with nuclear) vein.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Apr 2012 17:29

ManishH wrote:Hafeez bounty is just quid-pro-quo for Indian help on Iran front. Very much like USA to offer a "promise of action" in exchange for "actual action" from India.

Completely agreed. Developments in the coming days & weeks should prove the hollowness of this bounty.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 03 Apr 2012 17:38

rkirankr wrote:What is "independent"? Are they not independent enough now? Do you know about Article 370?
Why Kashmir should be independent and the need for to "win them over". Why not other people? Can you define in what way they can be more independent than they are now within Indian Union. Do you really think it has to do with so called independence and not due to religion.?

I think the above argument is a self goal. JMT no offense

rkirankr ji,

Thank you for your comment. I was just saying what I've learnt from my interaction with some Kashmiri friends I have. The alienation is there. I've had them recount experiences of fake encounters, rapes etc. You and I may debate about the validity of their claims but the perception remains. Yes, I believe this has to with the fact that it is the only Muslim majority state.

Having said that, what they tell me is that majority of people either want "independence" or merger with India. I've had them tell me on my face that they don't want to merge with Pakistan. The reason they say is that just turning your TV ON in itself would give you 100 reasons of why not to merge with Pakistan. But that is something we can't be content with, we still need to resolve this internal problem.

For good or bad reasons, the reality is that there are substantial no. of people who are influenced by these separatists in Kashmir. My Kashmiri friend told me that the events in 2009 and 2010 were a manifestation of who commanded real power on the ground.

I'm saying that our final aim is to somehow get these folks to accept that being an Indian is in your best interests. IMO, they also realize that the state of India or the people of India do not differentiate between a Hindu or a Muslim or a Kashmiri or a Punjabi or a Tamil.

What path should we follow to defeat the strain of separatism? A lot of them are nowadays studying in universities and working in MNCs throughout India and there is relative calm in the valley. We need to seize this opportunity to integrate them in the mainstream and I was just suggesting that everything should be on the table but secession.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Apr 2012 17:42

Paki caste system - alive and kicking

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Apr 2012 17:51

Roperia wrote:I'm saying that our final aim is to somehow get these folks (Kashmiris) to accept that being an Indian is in your best interests. What path should we follow to achieve this aim?

This belief in independence is based on the notion of equal-equal between India and Pakistan. The Kashmiris consider India and Pakistan to be equally strong nations, one being able to balance the other. In this clash between two equally strong nations, the Kashmiris feel there is ample space for others who can afford to stay "non-aligned", "sovereign" and "independent", sort of "equidistant" from both neighbors, who balance each other out. They believe they could play one against the other, in order to derive maximum benefit from both.

What we Indians need to tell the Kashmiris is that there are no two equal nations of India and Pakistan. If Pakistan goes and instead there are a plethora of small states, most of them turbulent and dependent on India, the Kashmiri dream would dissipate.

They would then appreciate that they are part of a stable super-power, and that beyond the borders lie only destruction and penury.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 03 Apr 2012 18:09

anupmisra wrote:Paki caste system - alive and kicking

A bit OT but one thing that was weird was that , this guy has six siblings as shown in the video and looking at their age i cant compute how many wives his father must have had. Does anyone know , in pakiland how many wives a TFTA Mard e Momin is allowed to hold (yeah I do mean hold and not have) by law ?

PS - Here is the link to that bharat/hindu bashing video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuyfyW8g ... re=related

Check from 5 min onwards to hear his story of "peaceful" conversion.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 03 Apr 2012 18:21

Roperia wrote:[hat path should we follow to defeat the strain of separatism? A lot of them are nowadays studying in universities and working in MNCs throughout India and there is relative calm in the valley. We need to seize this opportunity to integrate them in the mainstream and I was just suggesting that everything should be on the table but secession.

I agree, We should look at more integration than "Independence" . How much of economic activity is going on in Kashmir? I believe Article 370 forbids the Indians from other parts to buy land and set up business in JK. If so who is missing out on this exclusivity.
When they talk about fake encounters, rapes etc, why do they forget about Kashmiri pandits? Selective amnesia at work here? Look some incidents might have happened, does that call for secession.

If they become separate from Indian union, I bet they will become battle ground for India and Pak and will be another $hit house like pakis.
Only those Kashmiris who can afford can come to other states, what about the rest?
Is JK really the poorest state? What is the root cause of the separatism, economic or religion? Do not say elections were rigged blah blah. Have you heard of booth capturing in some states before EVMs? Ok we have free and fair elections in many places, what good are the politicians.?
The only way out is more integration, so that average Kashmiri comes to know that his upliftment will be due to Indian economy not the joke which goes for Pak economy. The biggest issue here is the religion. Face that and handle it strongly and things will be allright. Exclusivity of a religion and hence a separate land blahh blah is what Jinnah did. The same is being continued here.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 03 Apr 2012 18:21

Lashkar chief Hafiz Saeed dares US, says he is not hiding in caves

ISLAMABAD: Lashing out at the US for putting a bounty of USD 10 million on his head, a combative Hafiz Mohammad Saeed today said Washington was "frustrated" with him for his countrywide protests against the resumption of NATO supplies and drone strikes.

"We are not hiding in caves for bounties to be set on finding us. I think the US is frustrated because we are taking out countrywide protests against the resumption of NATO supplies and drone strikes," LeT founder Saeed was quoted as saying by Al-Jazeera news channel.

He added, "I believe either the US has very little knowledge and is basing its decisions on wrong information being provided by India or they are just frustrated".

The move has been welcomed by India today, which said it sends a strong signal to LeT and its "patrons" that the international community remains united in combating terrorism.

Wendy Sherman, the US Undersecretary of State, said a USD 2 million bounty had been announced for Abul Rehman Makki, the brother-in-law of Saeed.

Meanwhile, Pakistan Interior Minister Rehman Malik said he is yet to receive any official intimation from the US and noted that Saeed had been put under house arrest but was given bail by the Supreme Court.

"We should have been taken into confidence as to what has happened," he said when asked about the US putting a reward on Saeed's head.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 03 Apr 2012 18:26

Unkil is bargaining with the whore.
Pak considers India as ‘threat’ but US differs: Panetta

Washington: Noting that its relationship with Pakistan was “complex”, US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said ”the problem” lies with Islamabad’s perception of being ”threatened by India”.

“It is a complex relationship. It always has been and I suspect it always will be,” Panetta told CBC TV in an interview. ”In some ways we share a common concern and a common threat. Terrorism is as much a threat to Pakistan and the people of Pakistan as it is to us and to the people of Afghanistan,” he said.

He said though he had not found direct link or “evidence that involved a direct connection to the Pakistanis”, it was a matter of “concern” how bin Laden’s compound could come up in an area “where there were military establishments”, and military operating and not have them know.

“These situations sometimes, you know, the leadership within Pakistan (sic) is obviously not aware of certain things and yet people lower down in the military establishment find it very well, they’ve been aware of it. But bottom line is that we have not had evidence that provides that direct link,” he noted.

Pakistan is in the final stages of reviewing its ties with the US after the low following a NATO air strike that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers in November.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 03 Apr 2012 18:42

What is Gujral doctrine?

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 03 Apr 2012 18:53

US bounty on Hafiz Saeed is attack on Islam: Jamaatud Dawa

Hafiz Saeed and Hafiz Abdul Rehman Makki are the most popular religious leaders of the motherland of Pakistan and their relief and religious activities are not hidden from anyone,” the JuD spokesperson said.
...
“Yes, the Americans wanted to please India and they did it.”
...
Mujahid vowed that the JuD and the DPC would defend Pakistan and play a pivotal role in the fight against foreign elements meddling in the country’s affairs

To me it looks as if during the negotiations Bakistani generals wanted more and said - look we've anti-americanism in Pakistan, you need to take that into account. Haven't you seen that manifest in the from of DPC? If you give us $2 billion more, we might be able to deal with the anti-americanism and DPC.

Amerikis got frustrated and claimed two birds with one stone - reduced Hafiz Saeed's value to $10 million and pleased India.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Apr 2012 19:05

ManuT wrote:What is Gujral doctrine?

In a nutshell, unilateral concessions from India to its smaller neighbors.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 03 Apr 2012 19:10

rkirankr wrote: I agree, We should look at more integration than "Independence" . How much of economic activity is going on in Kashmir? I believe Article 370 forbids the Indians from other parts to buy land and set up business in JK. If so who is missing out on this exclusivity.

They definitely are. To put it in perspective, there was a feeling among separatists that they would force India to withdraw from Kashmir by taking up arms. The subsequent Indian counter-insurgency campaign has been successful, thanks to our soldiers. There is a realization in Kashmir that militancy has been crushed. That is why all this hue and cry about removal of AFSPA citing no violence.

rkirankr wrote: When they talk about fake encounters, rapes etc, why do they forget about Kashmiri pandits? Selective amnesia at work here? Look some incidents might have happened, does that call for secession.

IMO, Kashmiri muslims are big time hypocrites and would always say that they have no problems with pandits. If that is the case, why are pandits till date living in refuge camps in Jammu and Delhi and not going back to their homes?

rkirankr wrote:If they become separate from Indian union, I bet they will become battle ground for India and Pak and will be another $hit house like pakis.

rkirankr wrote:Only those Kashmiris who can afford can come to other states, what about the rest?
Is JK really the poorest state? What is the root cause of the separatism, economic or religion? Do not say elections were rigged blah blah. Have you heard of booth capturing in some states before EVMs? Ok we have free and fair elections in many places, what good are the politicians.?
The only way out is more integration, so that average Kashmiri comes to know that his upliftment will be due to Indian economy not the joke which goes for Pak economy. The biggest issue here is the religion. Face that and handle it strongly and things will be allright. Exclusivity of a religion and hence a separate land blahh blah is what Jinnah did. The same is being continued here.

They are all good questions and I think we need to gradually make it clear to them that you all need to separate the religion from the administration.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Apr 2012 19:14

partha wrote:Salman Haidar is also father in law of Suhasini Haidar who is an anchor and journalist with CNN IBN.

Suhasini is the daughter of Subramaniam Swamy.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 03 Apr 2012 19:17

RajeshA wrote: This belief in independence is based on the notion of equal-equal between India and Pakistan. The Kashmiris consider India and Pakistan to be equally strong nations, one being able to balance the other. In this clash between two equally strong nations, the Kashmiris feel there is ample space for others who can afford to stay "non-aligned", "sovereign" and "independent", sort of "equidistant" from both neighbors, who balance each other out. They believe they could play one against the other, in order to derive maximum benefit from both.

What we Indians need to tell the Kashmiris is that there are no two equal nations of India and Pakistan. If Pakistan goes and instead there are a plethora of small states, most of them turbulent and dependent on India, the Kashmiri dream would dissipate.

They would then appreciate that they are part of a stable super-power, and that beyond the borders lie only destruction and penury.

I completely agree with that. We should focus on economy. We're not "liked" by west because we're democratic or plural, it is because of the trade and potential for future trade. That should be our first and foremost priority.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 03 Apr 2012 19:24

Roperia ji,

Can you ask the separatists what would be the status of Kashmir if there was no Partition?

What would be their status if there was no Partition and the British had not left?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Apr 2012 19:57

ManuT wrote:What is Gujral doctrine?

I dont know the answer precisely. But when it was discussed in the term of the then PM Gujral. Badmash is reported to have said, this doctrine is nothing but a doctrine to cease thy neighbor peacefully.