India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Apr 2012 10:01

yes indeed. most reservations are truly turd world in terms of HDI indicators probably. alcoholism and violence add their woes. only a few tribes lucky enough to be strategically located like the mohegan sun/foxwoods operators managed to make anything in the modern world. and now the casino boom too is gone.
the reservations themselves were allocated in the worst possible land parcels usually far away from the areas the tribes used to inhabit.

have you seen a reservation on what is prime farmland? is any reservation a agricultural or industrial hotspot?

likewise the Aus aborigines did not all inhabit the bleak interior, many used to live in the temperate and fertile areas of the coast where they ran farming and fishing. they were all pushed out once the goras arrived and occupied all the good land.

in general the US response to any problem is to spectacularly blow up anything within a 1km radius of the said problem, but once the dust settles and the bodies buried one finds the original problem is alive and well, ..... so the 2nd approach is bribery , on a industrial scale to make the problem go away or go bite someone else like india.
the British approach is to find another problem, and set the two problems fighting each other while they supply arms to both sides and play kingmaker.
The israeli approach is to run a psyops campaign about Mossad/Shin bet being omnipotent/omnipresent in the hope the problem will run away.
the Indic approach is to appoint a EGOM to discuss the problem and see if its really a problem or a RSS conspiracy.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Apr 2012 09:19

American Universities Infected by Foreign Spies Detected by FBI

American Universities Infected by Foreign Spies Detected by FBI
By Daniel Golden - Apr 8, 2012 2:00 PM PT

Michigan State University President Lou Anna K. Simon contacted the Central Intelligence Agency in late 2009 with an urgent question.
The school’s campus in Dubai needed a bailout and an unlikely savior had stepped forward: a Dubai-based company that offered to provide money and students.

Russian spy Lidiya Guryeva was pursuing a master's degree in business at Columbia under the name of Cynthia Murphy. Guryeva was arrested for acting as an agent of a foreign power and deported to Russia. Source: U.S. Department of Justice via Bloomberg
Simon was tempted. She also worried that the company, which had investors from Iran and wanted to recruit students from there, might be a front for the Iranian government, she said. If so, an agreement could violate federal trade sanctions and invite enemy spies.

The CIA couldn’t confirm that the company wasn’t an arm of Iran’s government. Simon rejected the offer and shut down undergraduate programs in Dubai, at a loss of $3.7 million.
Hearkening back to Cold War anxieties, growing signs of spying on U.S. universities are alarming national security officials. As schools become more global in their locations and student populations, their culture of openness and international collaboration makes them increasingly vulnerable to theft of research conducted for the government and industry.

“We have intelligence and cases indicating that U.S. universities are indeed a target of foreign intelligence services,” Frank Figliuzzi, Federal Bureau of Investigation assistant director for counterintelligence, said in a February interview in the bureau’s Washington headquarters.
‘Academic Solicitation’
While overshadowed by espionage against corporations, efforts by foreign countries to penetrate universities have increased in the past five years, Figliuzzi said. The FBI and academia, which have often been at loggerheads, are working together to combat the threat, he said.

Attempts by countries in East Asia, including China, to obtain classified or proprietary information by “academic solicitation,” such as requests to review academic papers or study with professors, jumped eightfold in 2010 from a year earlier, according to a 2011 U.S. Defense Department report. Such approaches from the Middle East doubled, it said.
“Placing academics at U.S. research institutions under the guise of legitimate research offers access to developing U.S. technologies and cutting-edge research” in such areas as information systems, lasers, aeronautics and underwater robots, the report said.
World-Class Talent
Welcoming world-class talent to American universities helps the U.S. sustain global supremacy in science and technology, said University of Maryland President Wallace Loh. He chairs the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s academic advisory council, which held its first meeting March 20 and is expected to address such topics as federal tracking of international students.
Foreign countries “can never become competitive by stealing,” he said. “Once you exhaust that technology, you have to start developing the next generation.”
Foreigners on temporary visas made up 46 percent of science and engineering graduate students at Georgia Institute of Technology and Michigan State and 41 percent at Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2009, according to a federal survey. China sent 76,830 graduate students to U.S. universities in 2010-2011, more than any other country and up almost 16 percent from the prior year, according to the Institute of International Education in New York.
Finding Recruits
While most international students, researchers and professors come to the U.S. for legitimate reasons, universities are an “ideal place” for foreign intelligence services “to find recruits, propose and nurture ideas, learn and even steal research data, or place trainees,” according to a 2011 FBI report.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Apr 2012 12:10

The work by Alexis is the basis for American exceptionalism and he predicted the universal spread of equality.
American exceptionalism is being questioned. Among superpowers is American #1 or one among the nine nuclear powers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_de_Tocqueville

Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville (French pronunciation: [alɛksi or alɛksis də tɔkvil]; 29 July 1805, Paris – 16 April 1859, Cannes) was a French political thinker and historian best known for his Democracy in America (appearing in two volumes: 1835 and 1840) and The Old Regime and the Revolution (1856). In both of these works, he explored the effects of the rising equality of social conditions on the individual and the state in western societies. Democracy in America (1835), his major work, published after his travels in the United States, is today considered an early work of sociology and political science.

In Democracy in America, published in 1835, Tocqueville wrote of the New World and its burgeoning democratic order. Observing from the perspective of a detached social scientist, Tocqueville wrote of his travels through America in the early 19th century when the market revolution, Western expansion, and Jacksonian democracy were radically transforming the fabric of American life. One purpose of writing Democracy in America, according to Joshua Kaplan, was to help the people of France get a better understanding of their position between a fading aristocratic order and an emerging democratic order, and to help them sort out the confusion.[2] Tocqueville saw democracy as an equation that balanced liberty and equality, concern for the individual as well as the community. Tocqueville's impressions of American religion and its relationship to the broader national culture are likewise notable:
"Moreover, almost all the sects of the United States are comprised within the great unity of Christianity, and Christian morality is everywhere the same. In the United States the sovereign authority is religious, and consequently hypocrisy must be common; but there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.
The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live.
There are certain populations in Europe whose unbelief is only equaled by their ignorance and their debasement, while in America one of the freest and most enlightened nations in the world fulfills all the outward duties of religion with fervor.
Upon my arrival in the United States, the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more did I perceive the great political consequences resulting from this state of things, to which I was unaccustomed. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom pursuing courses diametrically opposed to each other; but in America I found that they were intimately united, and that they reigned in common over the same country."
Source: Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, (New York: A. S. Barnes & Co., 1851), pp. 331, 332, 335, 336-7, 337, respectively.
Tocqueville saw equality as an emerging and unstoppable force in modern life.[2] He wrote of "Political Consequences of the Social State of the Anglo-Americans" by saying "But one also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom".[17] He further comments on equality by saying "Furthermore, when citizens are all almost equal, it becomes difficult for them to defend their independence against the aggressions of power. As none of them is strong enough to fight alone with advantage, the only guarantee of liberty is for everyone to combine forces. But such a combination is not always in evidence."[18] The above is often misquoted as a slavery quote due to previous translations of the French text. The most recent translation from Arthur Goldhammer in 2004 translates the meaning to be as stated above. Examples of misquoted sources are numerous on the internet;[19] the actual text does not contain the words "Americans were so enamored by equality" anywhere in the text.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Apr 2012 12:19

Only one congressman who is declared an atheists. Pete Stark from Alameda county who has 20 terms in US Congress.

The Reason Rally: A Celebration of Secular values
What is the Reason Rally?
The Reason Rally is a movement-wide event sponsored by the country’s major secular organizations. The intent is to unify, energize, and embolden secular people nationwide, while dispelling the negative opinions held by so much of American society… and having a damn good time doing it!
It will be the largest secular event in world history. There will be music, comedy, great speakers, and lots of fun… and it’s free!
Sign language interpreters will be available for the deaf and hard-of-hearing. Also, there will be a viewing area on the Mall designated for people in wheelchairs.
The Reason Rally is being produced and run by the Reason Rally Coalition, a 501(c)(3) organization whose board consist of all the sponsoring organizations. There are two levels of sponsorship, the higher of which (8 organizations) will share equally in any profits generated by the event. In other words, your support benefits the movement on the whole, as well as the organizations that contributed the most to this free event.

What do you hope to achieve from this Rally?
We have three main goals:
To encourage attendees (and those who can’t make it) to come out of the closet as secular Americans, or supporters of secular equality.
To dispel stereotypes – there is no one “True Atheist”. We will have non-theists from all political persuasions, ethnicities, genders, and backgrounds. We will show that there are secular Americans in every American demographic.
Legislative equality. Secular Americans can run for office and adequately represent theists, just as theists in office can represent their secular constituents proudly and openly. We deserve a seat at the table just like theists, and we hope this rally can put our values in the radar of American voters.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Apr 2012 12:23

http://commons.trincoll.edu/aris/

One of the most widely noted findings from the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS
2008), which was released in March 2009, was the substantial increase in the No Religion segment of
the U.S. population, whom we designate as “Nones.” The Nones increased from 8.1% of the U.S.
adult population in 1990 to 15% in 2008 and from 14 to 34 million adults. Their numbers far exceed
the combined total of all the non-Christian religious groups in the U.S.

Who exactly are the Nones? “None” is not a movement, but a label for a diverse group of people
who do not identify with any of the myriad of religious options in the American religious
marketplace – the irreligious, the unreligious, the anti-religious, and the anti-clerical. Some believe in
God; some do not. Some may participate occasionally in religious rituals; others never will.

Nones are easily misunderstood. On the one hand, only a small minority are atheists. On the other
hand, it is also not correct to describe them as “unchurched” or “unaffiliated” on the assumption
that they are mainly theists and religious searchers who are temporarily between congregations. Yet
another incorrect assumption is that large proportions of Nones are anti-rationalist proponents of
New Age and supernatural ideas. As we will show, they are more likely to be rational skeptics.

The aim of this report is to provide detailed evidence and reliable statistics on just who the Nones
are, their sentiments, the process by which they have grown, and their place in contemporary
American society. Data from 1990 is presented to highlight selected characteristics where change
over time is particularly notable. We also try to predict the future trajectory of the Nones and so
their likely impact on where society is headed.

http://commons.trincoll.edu/aris/files/ ... NES_08.pdf

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Apr 2012 12:25

80% protestant population has reduced to 50% of the pop.

Catholics are 25% of the pop

15% ARE ATHEISTS

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Apr 2012 12:59

http://www.religionnews.com/press-relea ... y-is-under

ew Survey: Majority of Americans Do Not Believe Religious Liberty is Under Attack

Share

15
MAR
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Among Those Who Believe Religious Liberty is Threatened, Only 6 Percent Cite Contraceptive Coverage Controversy as Reason

Washington, DC— On the heels of a months-long heated debate on religious liberty, a new national survey finds that a majority (56%) of Americans do NOT believe that the right of religious liberty is being threatened in America today. Roughly 4-in-10 (39%) believe religious liberty is under attack.

The new PRRI-RNS Religion News Survey, conducted by Public Religion Research Institute in partnership with Religion News Service, allowed those who said religious liberty is under attack to explain in their own words why they felt the right of religious liberty is being threatened. Despite the recent heavy media focus on contraceptive coverage in the religious liberty debate, only 6% cited the contraception mandate issue. The most frequently cited reasons were perceptions that religion was being removed from the public square (23%) or that government was interfering with religion (20%).

“Some religious leaders, most prominently Catholic officials, have attempted to define the debate on the Obama administration’s contraceptive coverage mandate as a question of religious liberty, but most Americans do not believe religious liberty is under attack today,” said Dr. Robert P. Jones, PRRI CEO. “Nearly 6-in-10 Catholics do not believe that religious liberty is being threatened. The only religious group in which a majority believes religious liberty is being threatened in America today is evangelicals.”

Among the Findings:

Most (56%) Americans do not believe that the right of religious liberty is being threatened in America today. However, nearly 4-in-10 (39%) believe that religious liberty is threatened today.
- Majorities of Tea Party members (72%) Republicans (60%), and seniors (56%) believe that religious liberty is being threatened. White evangelical Protestants (61%) are the only major religious group that believes religious liberty is threatened in America today.
- On the other hand, majorities of Democrats (69%), Independents (58%), and Millennials (73%) do not believe that religious liberty is being threatened today. Majorities of Catholics, minority Protestants, white mainline Protestants and the unaffiliated also do not believe the religious liberty is being threatened in America today.
- When Americans who believe that religious liberty is being threatened today were asked to explain in their own words how religious liberty is being threatened, only 6% mention the recent debate around the contraception coverage mandate. The most frequently mentioned reasons are the removal or God and religion from the public square (23%), government interference in religion (20%), and hostility toward Christians or religion (10%).

With the single exception of churches or other places of worship, majorities of Americans believe that other types of employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception at no cost. However, there is more agreement about this requirement for some types of employers than others.
- Roughly 6-in-10 Americans say that publicly held corporations (62%) and religiously affiliated hospitals (57%) should be required to provide employees with health care plans that cover contraception. A slim majority of Americans believe that religiously affiliated colleges (54%), privately owned small businesses (53%), and religiously affiliated social service agencies (52%) should be required to provide employees with health care plans that cover contraception.
- About 4-in-10 (42%) Americans say churches and other places of worship should be required to provide this coverage to their employees.

More than 6-in-10 (63%) Americans say that religiously affiliated agencies that receive federal funding should not be able to refuse to place children with qualified gay and lesbian couples. About one-third of Americans say agencies that receive taxpayer money should be able to refuse.

A slim majority (52%) of Americans favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry, and 44% oppose. The survey also found religious liberty concerns were active among a subset of those who oppose same-sex marriage. When Americans who initially oppose same-sex marriage are asked whether they would support allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry if the law guaranteed that no church or congregation would be required to perform marriages for gay and lesbian couples, support for allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry increases 6 points, from 52% to 58%.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Apr 2012 13:01

Check the image on the religious web site.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Apr 2012 21:10

Don't the above posts belong to Understanding US thread? Please use the right thread to prevent clutter and lose focus.

Thanks, ramana

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 09 Apr 2012 21:27

India bashing on this right wing think tank's panel discussion.

Key points
1. Iran
2. Nuclear liability bill
3. Policy paralysis of UPA govt.
4. UNSC votes

Is the U.S.-India Relationship Oversold?

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Apr 2012 01:02

The link that you gave `proving` violations of human rights in Kashmir is pure propaganda. It has such names as Kamal Mitra Chenoy linked to Fai(ISI) and PUCL which is a cover for the maoists.Regards

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. How come GOI is still letting them operate then?

Once again this has nothing to do with India US strategic discussion. This time I am reporting your post. Your question may merit discussion, but this is the wrong thread.

????? I merely responded to someone. It was a response asking a question for the sake of my own knowledge..is that bad?

I also noticed several other discussions which has nothing to do with India US Strategic News and Discussion earlier (I am not going to re-visit all the pages to prove my point). Wonder why this one caught your attention. But its ok. You can report.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Apr 2012 01:25

devesh wrote:https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#! ... t/jqlNR9lP
sharing the link for the petition one more time. to lurkers and forum members, please do sign, those who are interested.
8 days left and the petition still needs 10000+ signatures.

Does it show anywhere if they met the quota?

I put it on FB account whatever little bit that might help.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Apr 2012 01:32

Folks, Garooda is a new person and might not be aware of the BRF norms. So cut him some slack. We all were new one time.

Garooda garu, Please observe and learn.

Thanks ramana

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 10 Apr 2012 01:36

Roperia wrote:India bashing on this right wing think tank's panel discussion.

Key points
1. Iran
2. Nuclear liability bill
3. Policy paralysis of UPA govt.
4. UNSC votes

Is the U.S.-India Relationship Oversold?

Same think-tank that employs Sadanand Dhume. Constantly battering India for playing hard-to-get.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Apr 2012 02:17

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj
Walter Russell Mead: The Myth of America's Decline
Washington now has added China, India, Brazil and Turkey to its speed-dial, along with Europe and Japan.

But it will remain the chairman of a larger board.
The world balance of power is changing. Countries like China, India, Turkey and Brazil are heard from more frequently and on a wider range of subjects. The European Union's most ambitious global project—creating a universal treaty to reduce carbon emissions—has collapsed, and EU expansion has slowed to a crawl as Europe turns inward to deal with its debt crisis. Japan has ceded its place as the largest economy in Asia to China and appears increasingly on the defensive in the region as China's hard and soft power grow.
The international chattering class has a label for these changes: American decline. The dots look so connectable: The financial crisis, say the pundits, comprehensively demonstrated the failure of "Anglo-Saxon" capitalism. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have sapped American strength and, allegedly, destroyed America's ability to act in the Middle East. China-style "state capitalism" is all the rage. Throw in the assertive new powers and there you have it—the portrait of America in decline. Actually, what's been happening is just as fateful but much more complex. The United States isn't in decline, but it is in the midst of a major rebalancing. The alliances and coalitions America built in the Cold War no longer suffice for the tasks ahead. As a result, under both the George W. Bush and Barack Obama administrations, American foreign policy has been moving toward the creation of new, sometimes difficult partnerships as it retools for the tasks ahead.

From the 1970s to the start of this decade, the world was in what future historians may call the Trilateral Era. In the early '70s, Americans responded to the defeat in Vietnam and the end of the Bretton Woods era by inviting key European allies and Japan to join in the creation of a trilateral system. Western Europe, Japan and the U.S. accounted for an overwhelming proportion of the international economy in the noncommunist world. With overlapping interests on a range of issues, the trilateral powers were able to set the global agenda on some key questions. Currency policy, the promotion of free trade, integrating the developing world into the global financial system, assisting the transition of Warsaw Pact economies into the Western World—the trilateralists had a lot to show for their efforts.

Despite all the talk of American decline, the countries that face the most painful changes are the old trilateral partners. Japan must live with a disturbing rival presence, China, in a region that, with American support, it once regarded as its backyard. In Europe, countries that were once global imperial powers must accept another step in their long retreat from empire. For American foreign policy, the key now is to enter deep strategic conversations with our new partners—without forgetting or neglecting the old. The U.S. needs to build a similar network of relationships and institutional linkages that we built in postwar Europe and Japan and deepened in the trilateral years. Think tanks, scholars, students, artists, bankers, diplomats and military officers need to engage their counterparts in each of these countries as we work out a vision for shared prosperity in the new century. The American world vision isn't powerful because it is American; it is powerful because it is, for all its limits and faults, the best way forward. This is why the original trilateral partners joined the U.S. in promoting it a generation ago, and why the world's rising powers will rally to the cause today.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Apr 2012 04:12

ramana wrote:Folks, Garooda is a new person and might not be aware of the BRF norms. So cut him some slack. We all were new one time.
Garooda garu, Please observe and learn.
Thanks ramana

Ramanaji..I appreciate your patience. I am not trying to derail the thread by posting propoganda websites and/or links. I'm simply trying to have a honest conversation. This does not mean that I have to agree with every single viewpoint and/or be completely pragmatic to the opinions during discussions. If thats the case then it will make for simple chapraashi style discussions with responses like 'Haan sir...Yes Sir...Ji Sir...I agree...You are right...Aap bahut mahaan hai...Aap bahut intelligent hai' for the most part

I certainly do not wish to discuss 'a blind leading the blind' on forums and blogs. It kills the purpose of having open and honest discussions with nationalistic pride and patriotism parked outside the discussion room. I do post on several other blogs and forums similar to BR. Unless someone is truely from intelligence gathering for national security and can backup their points via facts, the rests are just opinions with or without web links. Naturally few members felt that I am not discussing in the common favour of 'Indian Interests' and attempting to spread propoganda where the topic clearly indicates 'India-US Strategic News and Discussion' instead of 'Indian Interests'

Many folks generalize about their viewpoints and I responded back with my generalization and that didn't go down too well

There should not be any insecurities in discussions by comparisons. I'm sure there are many younger members on this forum too and I'm sure they will learn a thing or two after reading the posts. I started to respond from the beginning of the thread as I wanted to catch up with the discussions. Obviously the cumulative impression that others received and the response was certainly defensive (which is understandable). However I also felt that several members discussed various topics on this thread and nobody made any noise. That seemed one sided. Politics is a dirty game and that is universal and due to that certainly there will be opposing view points and discussions to help others understand the similarities and/or the differences.

BTW I looked at the FAQ's and didn't find much about the 'contents'. Any other links for the BR Rules? Dhanyavaad.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Apr 2012 04:13

Washington now has added China, India, Brazil and Turkey to its speed-dial, along with Europe and Japan
Very interesting. They cannot afford to keep these three powers outside anymore. They form the bulk of the world population.- 50%. Recent top US talk show - McLaughlin show had India also as part of the global power along with Russia and China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McLaughlin_(host)

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Apr 2012 04:18

Carl wrote:
Roperia wrote:India bashing on this right wing think tank's panel discussion.

Key points
1. Iran
2. Nuclear liability bill
3. Policy paralysis of UPA govt.
4. UNSC votes

Is the U.S.-India Relationship Oversold?
Same think-tank that employs Sadanand Dhume. Constantly battering India for playing hard-to-get.

One of the big factor for the INDO-US relationship I think is nothing more than a distraction and attempt to keep China in check. They all should know by now that India has always been savvy and demanding when it comes to the Bargaining Table. Part of the problem with some of the agencies in DC is nothing more than justification for their existence as an agency. Its redigression of topics just to keep stirring the pot. The link seems nothing more than some of the MSM 24X7 news channels munching on the same subjects without real breakthrough information.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Apr 2012 05:06

Walter Mead is reduced to writing these type of articles! How the mighty have fallen.

What he is saing is Vietnam and collapse of Bretton oods brought into play the Trilateral entente of US, Western Europe and Japan.

What I say is 9/11, Iraq war, 2008 meltdown, rise of PRC and India have brought two other powers into play and shuffled the deck with WE and Japan having lower weight.

What he is saying is the US still manages the older and the newer groups.
So no change to status for US.

How long before the group figures out the Emperor's clothing situation.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Apr 2012 06:26

ramana wrote:What I say is 9/11, Iraq war, 2008 meltdown, rise of PRC and India have brought two other powers into play and shuffled the deck with WE and Japan having lower weight.

And its too late to go back to the roots of Political Ideology of Isolationism or Non-Intervenism (or is it?). What the founders had laid down was changed with the introduction of FED Reserve and subsequently the Banking Cartel. Thus still plenty of opposition against expansionism by many citizens and who do not vote. Which brings another topic 'voter identification' which has still not been approved. Ofcourse the parties sponsoring and paying a hefty sum in the fundraisers infact provide funds to both sides (Dems or Republicans). Majority of them are Banks. I wonder why RP was taken out of the equation and never really caught on. Ron Paul did support a certain version of Isolationism. Even during WWII, it was part of the political parties struggle within the US (Isolationism and/or non-interventionism).

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1601.html
http://www.academicamerican.com/worldwa ... II1940.htm

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Apr 2012 08:17

Garooda wrote: 'Haan sir...Yes Sir...Ji Sir...I agree...You are right...Aap bahut mahaan hai...Aap bahut intelligent hai' for the most part

It is my personal opinion (I have more opinions than orifices) that the relationship that the US values most from all other nations is exactly one in which other nations are kowtowing to the US and saying "Aap bahut mahaan hai" . If this was the relationship that India maintained with the US there might be less friction.

I have found it curious that some Indians over the years have also "expressed opinions" that suggest that india should take the US's hand and follow the US's lead. The reason given is that the US leads and others follow. I disagree with the suggestion that India should follow the US lead. In fact I believe that the US should follow India's suggestions and India's lead in some areas.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Apr 2012 08:57

Susie Sit Downs- God's Word with Pastor Jim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaQMoUak ... ure=relmfu

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 10 Apr 2012 09:07

^^^
It's not only the Christian Right that denigrates Indian and Dharmic traditions while digesting our spiritual concepts for assimilation into Christianity. The Christian Right is simply more obvious and more openly offensive about this. So called "Liberal" Christians are simply more insidious in their approach.

I've written more about this here:
http://indospheric.blogspot.com/2012/04 ... other.html

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 10 Apr 2012 09:09

Carl wrote:
Roperia wrote:India bashing on this right wing think tank's panel discussion.

Key points
1. Iran
2. Nuclear liability bill
3. Policy paralysis of UPA govt.
4. UNSC votes

Is the U.S.-India Relationship Oversold?
Same think-tank that employs Sadanand Dhume. Constantly battering India for playing hard-to-get.

Carl, the India-bashing in that video discussion is led by George Perkovitch... an inveterate foe of India in US Foreign policymaking circles. Other participants, including Daniel Twining, speak up for India's strategic autonomy to the extent they can (as American think-tankers) be expected to.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Apr 2012 09:39

shiv wrote:
Garooda wrote: 'Haan sir...Yes Sir...Ji Sir...I agree...You are right...Aap bahut mahaan hai...Aap bahut intelligent hai' for the most part
It is my personal opinion (I have more opinions than orifices) that the relationship that the US values most from all other nations is exactly one in which other nations are kowtowing to the US and saying "Aap bahut mahaan hai" . If this was the relationship that India maintained with the US there might be less friction.

I have found it curious that some Indians over the years have also "expressed opinions" that suggest that india should take the US's hand and follow the US's lead. The reason given is that the US leads and others follow. I disagree with the suggestion that India should follow the US lead. In fact I believe that the US should follow India's suggestions and India's lead in some areas.

My quotation was for a different purpose specific to the forum itself

However it doesnt matter. The existing friction definitely is due to difference in political strategy and ofcourse national interests between India and US. I do not disagree that US should follow India's suggestions. Infact I do believe India and Turkey were tasked with negotiations with Iran and the existing Nuclear Issue initiated by the West. But now it seems India and China are both cashing in on the sanctions by obtaining concessions on the oil trade between them.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 10 Apr 2012 09:44

Indonesian airlines saar , should you not be feeling happy that your motherland India (if at aal joo consider it as your motherland) is saving money dealing with I-ran ? Why are you so concerned about amreeka loosing out ?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 10 Apr 2012 09:47

Carl, the India-bashing in that video discussion is led by George Perkovitch... an inveterate foe of India in US Foreign policymaking circles. Other participants, including Daniel Twining, speak up for India's strategic autonomy to the extent they can (as American think-tankers) be expected to.

they may do all thinking and tanking they want to , but it does not stop them from being irrelevant .. I mean who listens to perv-o-bitch these days ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Apr 2012 09:48

MUTU?

The sad thing about BRF is the expressions used most are coined by members who get banned!

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 10 Apr 2012 09:52

bredator saab , did I do something wrong ?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 10 Apr 2012 09:57

I do believe India and Turkey were tasked with negotiations with Iran and the existing Nuclear Issue initiated by the West.

Who the hell is the west to task India with something , hain ji ?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 10 Apr 2012 09:59

shiv wrote:
Garooda wrote: 'Haan sir...Yes Sir...Ji Sir...I agree...You are right...Aap bahut mahaan hai...Aap bahut intelligent hai' for the most part
It is my personal opinion (I have more opinions than orifices) that the relationship that the US values most from all other nations is exactly one in which other nations are kowtowing to the US and saying "Aap bahut mahaan hai" . If this was the relationship that India maintained with the US there might be less friction.

I have found it curious that some Indians over the years have also "expressed opinions" that suggest that india should take the US's hand and follow the US's lead. The reason given is that the US leads and others follow. I disagree with the suggestion that India should follow the US lead. In fact I believe that the US should follow India's suggestions and India's lead in some areas.

shiv, for what it is worth I believe that the most logical, best-case next incarnation for the US would be as a fully-owned subsidiary of India. Everything else is an evolutionary dead end. It'll take a lot for the US to swallow this reality, but before we get there Indians need to buy into it first.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Apr 2012 10:04

No go to the BRF lexicon and check the acronym.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 10 Apr 2012 10:21

shiv, for what it is worth I believe that the most logical, best-case next incarnation for the US would be as a fully-owned subsidiary of India. Everything else is an evolutionary dead end. It'll take a lot for the US to swallow this reality, but before we get there Indians need to buy into it first.

Ouch ..this will hurt some1 ...

For US to be a fully owned subsidiary of India it equally important is that the Indians present in the US regard them as Indians .. If they don't regard themselves as Indians , they pretty much become brown skinned Americans..That is the point Shiv is trying to make.. [OT] Shiv himself has followed the "American lead" occasionally .. Even though he is British trained he has surely read schwartz and sabiston and uses the amreeki maal of ethicon..but he considers himself as Indian. [/ot]

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Apr 2012 10:22

gakakkad wrote:
I do believe India and Turkey were tasked with negotiations with Iran and the existing Nuclear Issue initiated by the West.
Who the hell is the west to task India with something , hain ji ?

It would be the west currently in the east (Middle East).

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 10 Apr 2012 10:32

You did not answer my first question.. Why are you so concerned about India saving money dealing with Iran ?

I am "enjoying" the amreeki hospitality .. making some money even.. a couple of gora amreekans have helped me advance my career even..but I don't care 2 cents if us gets its chaddi down in the middle east.. In event of a US Invasion of Iran , I would secretly hope that it ends up as an defeat for amreeka and house of Saud gets wiped out.. (Though being an admirer or Israel I would hope Israel escapes unscathed..they should understand thar Iran is no lebonon, they have advance air defence and have modified a roosi missile in a manner that impressed Russia.).. Its not that I like Iran over the US..I am not a moslem sympathiser ... But it is in Indian interest that amreeka gets an ass-whooping in the middle east and gets kicked out..

The current hierarchy in opec is not in Indian interest ...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Apr 2012 10:37

KLNMurthy wrote: shiv, for what it is worth I believe that the most logical, best-case next incarnation for the US would be as a fully-owned subsidiary of India. Everything else is an evolutionary dead end. It'll take a lot for the US to swallow this reality, but before we get there Indians need to buy into it first.

If nothing else that is an original statement and deserves to be remembered just for that. One may not actually get everything that one wants, but having the attitude counts. Brings to mind the quote by Nietzsche in the Paki thread. Extremism cannot be met with moderation. The language can be polite, but the demand, nothing but the most.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 10 Apr 2012 11:12

Roperia wrote:India bashing on this right wing think tank's panel discussion.
Key points
1. Iran
2. Nuclear liability bill
3. Policy paralysis of UPA govt.
4. UNSC votes
Is the U.S.-India Relationship Oversold?

Very interesting discussion. I am glad that I took the time to watch it in its entirety. I liked George, at least he has realized that India will not play Japan or UK, or even France to the US. Others had illusions. I was reminded of late PV Narasimha Rao's comment, when he had remarked that in the event of a future altercation between the US and China, we will be tempted to side with the US, and this impulse should be resisted. (I am paraphrasing).
Gautam

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 10 Apr 2012 11:25

g.sarkar wrote: I was reminded of late PV Narasimha Rao's comment, when he had remarked that in the event of a future altercation between the US and China, we will be tempted to side with the US, and this impulse should be resisted. (I am paraphrasing).
Gautam

There is no way India will side with US in an event of a war with China. India would be totally neutral and if really forced to choose sides India would accommodate China against US. The internal political compulsions would leave no choice anyways. US has no business in Asia and has fkced more countries than Hitler.
Either way it depends on what side Russia is on.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Apr 2012 11:26

seems north korea is preparing for its 3rd nuclear test should the impending BM test result in more pressure.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Apr 2012 14:44

Garooda wrote: I do not disagree that US should follow India's suggestions.

Funnily enough the US has structured its own laws in such a way that dealing with the US demands an acceptance of US laws. A case in point is the end user agreement that the US imposes on all its allies. Those that accept are more allied than those who refuse. This leaves a door open for the US to break the law if that is in US interest. The wording of that no aid to Pak if they went nuclear amendment (i forget the name) had the escape clause that "If the President certified" that Pak was OK. Then Pak was OK. Promptly a US President did certify Pak to be fine in terms of not seeking nuclear weapons and it was business a usual. On the other hand, he end user licensing can kick in any time or be ignored at any time.

I used to laugh at the "No Private practice" rule imposed by the Karnataka government on govt doctors. It was used only to victimize. Most doctors were free to practice as they wanted unless they rubbed the govt up the wrong way at which point the "law" would be used. This is exactly how the US too deals with other nations.

China has been bitten by this and has responded in interesting ways. One way is to completely ignore US rules like IPR when it came to software, toys and electronics. The other is to push massively for local development of the hardware of global power projection so that military/nuclear power cannot be used by the US to browbeat China.

The structure of "world order" is such that most countries of the world do accept US domination, but even US domination has a caste system. That apart, those who rabidly oppose the US are always the ones who are developing weapons and means to hit the US and gain US attention for that reason. India is stuck in between. India has no specific ill will towards the US but belongs to a lower "scheduled" caste of nations who deal with the US because India is not 100% in agreement with US demand. And when India disputes something the US sees India as not cooperating and US senators know that India is breaking US laws. Breaking American law is a crime. Americans take their laws very seriously when others break them.

So if you are not with the US you are against the US. It's pretty simple.