Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

[Altair]

I would appreciate the Paki RAPE class not so much as investing money in India as much as just living the lavish lifestyle in India with all the booze and beaches. It is good if they boost luxury consumption in India.

We need to suck Pakistani economy dry.

RajeshA,
The idea is right Sir, I agree, but are we not looking at it in the wrong way?

Why are we all talking of only Happy Day Scenarios here? Shit happens in the real world and it surely happens more often with Pakistan.
Lets say Pakis have invested 1 Billion USD in NSE (Rs. 5000 crores which is peanuts actually but at 1:20 leverage will be Rupees 1 Lakh Crores in turnover business daily) and a terrorist attack happens on NSE. BRF will go ape$hit and call for War and the dalals and gujjus who make tons of money through brokerage will say War with Pak will bleed India's economy. In fact it is the brokerage fees of houses like Kotak securities, Angel Broking, Motilal oswal, Reliance money which will take a hit. If it was Infosys, TCS which had a say to not go war after parliament attack ,it will be the financial houses in India which will ask PM to pipedown.
Who are we kidding here?

[CRamS]

Guys, on this Lord Ahmed, while I am happy to sit back and watch the white Pakis and Pakijabis go at each other, lets also not get woolly eyed. What Ahmed dude said was just as US offered a bounty to provide evidence of Hafeez pig's culpability in terror, so also he offers a bounty to provide evidence of Bush/Cheney's war crimes in Iraq. Now imagine this. When India gives its 1000s of masala dosas to TSP showing evidence of terror suspects like Hafeez, Dawood etc; what do the Pakis do? First they flush those dosas down the toilet, and then issues dosa themselves demanding Modi and Advani. And what the BeeB type western media and western govts do? They do equal equal between Modi/Advani and Hefeez/Dawood. By any stretch of imagination, in terms of terror inflcted on innocents, there is more of an equivalence between Hafeez pig and Bush/Cheney, than there is between Advani/Modi and pigLeTs. For example, please read Economists' take on "working lunch" between MMS and dus percent

Quiet meetings of leaders with not much to lose may be just what a budding India-Pakistan relationship needs. Avoiding rancour from domestic spoilers (army or terrorists in Pakistan, Hindu nationalists in India) is an achievement.

[Roperia]

Narendra Modi writes on twitter:

Centre should take proactive action to explore possible hydrocarbon reserves in Sir Creek area.Guj would be glad to extend required support.

He mentions Sir Creek in his speech at CMs' meet on internal security.

I'm intrigued by these developments. Sir Creek may be the only thing India can give an immediate concession to Pakistan on for the so-called reciprocity that is being demanded in Paki and western media writings for Pak's concession on MFN. This seems to point that MMS is actively thinking of accommodating Pakis on this issue and this is a preemptive move on NaMo's part to deter MMS.

[SSridhar]

I specifically mentioned it as one that clubs the mullahcracy together with the army and the feudals on one side against redistribution.

As far as I know, nobody wants land redistribution in Pakistan. It has been successfully established in Pakistan that a forced cap on land ownership is unIslamic. The Supreme Court has struck down land ceiling act. I doubt if even the minuscule Leftists would support such an Act.

[SSridhar]

The Road from Ajmer Leads Nowhere - Ayesha Siddiqa
This is about Sufism/Barelvism Vs. Deobandism/Wahhaibism
Excerpts

Even mysticism can get politicised, a fact borne out by the whirling dervishes of Turkey or the Sufi movement in Sudan (1945-89) being the driver of political unrest and rebellion. Moreover, mysticism is not restricted to a particular school of thought as there are mystics among the Deobandis as well. In fact, there is an ideological affinity between Deobandism and Barelvism.

For instance, like the pirs of Ajmer, those in Pakistan such as Shah Mahmood Qureshi, Pir Pagara, Yusuf Raza Gilani and others have no capacity to offer a competing narrative. They do not offer a varied view on blasphemy or issues for which the radicals provide evidence from the scripture or sharia. Not to forget their vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Hence, it is not surprising that pockets of radicalism have emerged and been strengthened in south Punjab and now Sindh, both areas known for their Sufi saints. The south Punjabi tradition of accommodation and of creating space for women to make choices is rapidly being replaced by the phenomenon of “honour” killing.

The fact is that the narrative of modernity represented by Deobandism and Wahabism is challenging the modern day pir without fear of a credible response. The radicals and militant forces not only have access to modern technology for dissemination of their message, but they also have a modern textual context to what they have to say. They are offering empowerment of the individual through direct access to the holy text rather than the roundabout method offered by the pir . Put another way, the potency of the pirs is compromised by the new found ideological modernity.

According to the Pakistani sociologist, Hamza Alavi, Sufi and Barelvi Islam represent the peasant's religion, a form which is getting rapidly challenged due to increased urbanisation and socio-economic development. Sufism cannot catch up with this trend unless it offers an alternative narrative in a convincing and modern way.

[shiv]

The Road from Ajmer Leads Nowhere - Ayesha Siddiqa
This is about Sufism/Barelvism Vs. Deobandism/Wahhaibism

I was just about to post this. Good article. Agha says Sufism stands no chance.

[arun]

X Posted from the Pakistan Arms Sales, Ops, Doctrine etc. thread.

Hmmm ……….. Was the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan storing Chemical Warfare weapons at Siachin?:

Pakistan avalanche search hampered by toxic gases

[Altair]

^^
Toxic
UF6?

[SSridhar]

Agha says Sufism stands no chance.

She is one more person to validate the general perception that furious conversion to Wahhabism/Deobandism is on all over TSP. Not that Sufism is all pacific, as she herself says.

[Agnimitra]

^ The Tablighi Jama'at is considered a "Sufi" organization, too.
The idea I see even amongst Turkish Gulenists is that in this age the mode of Sufism is "service" and dawa, not things like "meditation" and gnosis.

[SBajwa]

Toxic probably meant "Radiation" from the nukes.

[brihaspati]

I specifically mentioned it as one that clubs the mullahcracy together with the army and the feudals on one side against redistribution.

As far as I know, nobody wants land redistribution in Pakistan. It has been successfully established in Pakistan that a forced cap on land ownership is unIslamic. The Supreme Court has struck down land ceiling act. I doubt if even the minuscule Leftists would support such an Act.

I am afraid you have not studied the Paki land problem then. The very fact that the SC had to stamp down on it, shows that there is a counter current that needed to be stopped with all the coercive power of the state.

Shivji thinks there are fissures and cracks in Paki society which are onlee suppressed by coercive power, even at the level of supposed universal loyalty and joy in submitting to Islam or jihad tax - but you are taking the SC decision as proof enough of "nobody" wanting land redistribution.

Land redistribution has been a political issue and weapon periodically and consistently opportunistically raised and abandoned right from the beginnings of paki state - with prominent players including names like Ayub and Bhutto.

[brihaspati]

Suraj,
I believe really "direct" FDI's from Pakiland will not happen. Those that happen - would be from Pakis looking to move base and park their capital safely. But the bigger threat would be collaborative Paki+Gulf FDI's, especially with the thrust of Saudi led investments.

Where exactly those investments are coming in would be crucial. There are a whole host of security issues even in the most innocent infrastructural FDI's whenever the ME/Paki combo is concerned.

Any business presence of Pakis can be forward posts of Paki intel and subversion. Since our intel fails to prevent Paki-sourced atrocities managed froma cross the border, consider the risks in more legitimate cover for the controllers to activate the indigenous components of their aggression.

The danger is that after such FDI's flow in, there will be side-benefits contributed to sections of political class [just as has happened in the US or UK] for their party-funding or personal electoral funding - which in turn will prompt the respective political sections to protect the covert linkages or roles of their Paki biz benefactors.

Once the process starts and ruling class/admin/foreign biz collaboration happens, historically, even in recent history - it is almost impossible to reverse.

[arun]

X Posted from the ISI History and Discussions thread.

Amnesty International raps the Pakistan Military controlled ISI / ISID and other security agencies for their role in enforced disapperances:

Pakistan must account for missing victims of enforced disappearance

[Suraj]

brihaspati: There's already a much more substantial ME investment presence in a far more invasive manner through the theological infrastructure investments in recent years. Further, I fail to see why those ME entities would want the Pakis to get in on the gravy train when they've no history of treating the Pakis as anything more than low class scum.

The claims of $1b investment in BSE being a market mover catalyst is far-fetched, and imply that the collective weight of our own financial heavyweights cannot easily turn the tables on them. BSE and NSE have market capitalization of appox $1.3 trllion each. Last I checked, KSE has a market cap of about $40-50 billion.

The RAPE and ME entities already have substantial tentacles in our economy - cricket, Bollywood and the fifth column entities. I'm all in favor of their investments rather being tied in fixed assets than the easily malleable FII route.

[Anujan]

Little birdie tells me that gyari was no "outpost". It was an ammo dump and logistics base.

And oh, many many more than 150 met their 72.

[svinayak]

brihaspati: There's already a much more substantial ME investment presence in a far more invasive manner through the theological infrastructure investments in recent years. Further, I fail to see why those ME entities would want the Pakis to get in on the gravy train when they've no history of treating the Pakis as anything more than low class scum.

The claims of $1b investment in BSE being a market mover catalyst is far-fetched, and imply that the collective weight of our own financial heavyweights cannot easily turn the tables on them. BSE and NSE have market capitalization of appox $1.3 trllion each. Last I checked, KSE has a market cap of about $40-50 billion.

The RAPE and ME entities already have substantial tentacles in our economy - cricket, Bollywood and the fifth column entities. I'm all in favor of their investments rather being tied in fixed assets than the easily malleable FII route.

There has to be a law which empowers the cabinet and the ED to confiscate any capital and investment from Pakistan entity direct or indirect in the event that there is a terrorist attack. The onus is on the Pakistan side to prove that they dont have a hand in that attack.

[Prem]

ME money and Poaq Bunnies given access to indian economy together cant be a well meaning coincident. The money and low lifers together with similar back ground are both natural cause of suspicion. The situation can get out of hand internally especially when political class is DIE and compromised.

[Suraj]

Indeed, there are few things that better motivate compliance than the prospect of arbitrarily losing their wealth due to their own actions. As I've stated all along on this topic in this thread, I prefer they take the FDI route to the existing benami access via FII route.

[Prem]

="AcharyaThere has to be a law which empowers the cabinet and the ED to confiscate any capital and investment from Pakistan entity direct or indirect in the event that there is a terrorist attack. The onus is on the Pakistan side to prove that they dont have a hand in that attack.

Law to confiscate ill gotton , ill intended wealth to subvert the Rashtra . USA has one on the Book.

[svinayak]

India needs one. Also India needs a process with Indian external ministry to go after any entity or Indian groups who wage war against India.

[arun]

Little birdie tells me that gyari was no "outpost". It was an ammo dump and logistics base.

And oh, many many more than 150 met their 72.

So is there a likelihood that Chemical Weapons were clandestinely stored there given the report of the presence of “Toxic Gases” at the site?:

X Posted from the Pakistan Arms Sales, Ops, Doctrine etc. thread.

Hmmm ……….. Was the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan storing Chemical Warfare weapons at Siachin?:

Pakistan avalanche search hampered by toxic gases

[arun]

Cannot understand what the Guardian is puzzled about as it is inevitable that an “Ideological Muslim State” and “Islamic Republic” created supposedly as a “Safe Haven for the Mohammaddens of the Indian sub-continent” will go to any length, however ridiculous, to impart anything and everything with a Mohammadden spin:

In Pakistan, saying goodbye can be a religious statement

[KLNMurthy]

You have suggested in other posts that, therefore, given the chance, mango pakis will rise up and overthrow their oppressive system, thereby neatly solving India's TSP problem.

I have not suggested anything of the sort. Part of the problem with saying anything is the imagination that people bring in to play to extrapolate words to delusional extremes, possibly based on desperate hopes they secretly harbor in their minds. That Pakistan problem is not going to be solved easily or soon. I have stated that. Perhaps you ignored that statement while you lapped up everything else I wrote.
...

I offer no solutions. I only offer a viewpoint that brings down Islam and its imagined attraction a notch for the sake of accuracy and split away from the coercion
...

OT but "lapped up everything you wrote?" Really? Exactly how vain and full of yourself are you, shiv?

Any viable institution has a degree of built-in coercion that enforces conformity. It is certainly true that when we demonize Islam and Muslims we overlook the fact that it is a human institution and can use a reminder. But in the context of understanding an enemy bent on our destruction and our national policy towards it, insistently repeating this bit of mostly-vacuous insight only makes sense if it can be tied to our understanding of the threat or the possible avenues for responding to that threat. For example, we can ask, as the communists might, whether the masses are "ready for revolution."

So, yes, by interpolating a suggestion of relevance to your repeated insight about Islam in TSP, I was presuming that there was a point to your continual and emphatic reassertion of a point that is not really all that subtle or esoteric. Now that you've explained, I understand that there isn't any real point to it.

[SureshP]

Zaid Hamid PAGAL Hai - Dr Shazia Zanab

[Jayram]

Little birdie tells me that gyari was no "outpost". It was an ammo dump and logistics base.

And oh, many many more than 150 met their 72.

So is there a likelihood that Chemical Weapons were clandestinely stored there given the report of the presence of “Toxic Gases” at the site?:

X Posted from the Pakistan Arms Sales, Ops, Doctrine etc. thread.

Hmmm ……….. Was the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan storing Chemical Warfare weapons at Siachin?:

Pakistan avalanche search hampered by toxic gases

It could just be dead bodies decomposing..? But this is under ice and snow so not sure if that is enough time for that kind of buildup...

[brihaspati]

brihaspati: There's already a much more substantial ME investment presence in a far more invasive manner through the theological infrastructure investments in recent years. Further, I fail to see why those ME entities would want the Pakis to get in on the gravy train when they've no history of treating the Pakis as anything more than low class scum.

The claims of $1b investment in BSE being a market mover catalyst is far-fetched, and imply that the collective weight of our own financial heavyweights cannot easily turn the tables on them. BSE and NSE have market capitalization of appox $1.3 trllion each. Last I checked, KSE has a market cap of about $40-50 billion.

The RAPE and ME entities already have substantial tentacles in our economy - cricket, Bollywood and the fifth column entities. I'm all in favor of their investments rather being tied in fixed assets than the easily malleable FII route.

Suraj,
X-posting two refs I posted on West-Asia thread:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1270176

A small hint.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... /?page=all

Religious and ideological support has been also provided by Hussein Shihata, a leading Sunni scholar of Islamic Economy at Cairo’s al-Azhar University. Mr. Shihata’s July 10, 2002, fatwa says: “We do not use the term ‘economic jihad’ as a mere motto or a resounding slogan with no action. Rather, we mean by it a practical jihad that requires action to turn it into an effective and concrete reality. The aim behind that is to benefit all Muslims and to challenge the aggression staged by the U.S. and Jews against Islam and Muslims.”

Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, who claims to abhor bin Laden, seems nevertheless eager to follow his agenda. In an interview with Arab News in May 2002, the prince said that if the Arabs “unite through economic interests,” they would achieve influence over the U.S. decision-makers. Since government sources estimate Saudi holdings in the United States at $400 billion to $800 billion, the matter warrants public attention.

The Saudi agenda extends far beyond policy-makers. In the late 1990s, the privately owned Massachusetts technology company, Ptech, designed software used to develop enterprise blueprints that held every important detail of a given concern. The company was financed with more than $22 million, by Saudi multi-millionaire Yasin al Qadi, a Specially Designated Global Terrorist. The Saudis thus gained access to strategic information about many major U.S. corporations such as SYSCO, ENRON, and the U.S. Departments of Defense, Treasury, Justice, Energy, and even the White House. The extent of the damage, if it was investigated, remains a mystery.

Meanwhile, substantial Saudi and Gulf financial contributions “to bring the proper message to America’s brightest minds,” are pouring into U.S. educational institutions through Arab and Islamic centers and professorial chairs. Last month the prince gave $20 million each to Georgetown and Harvard universities. According to the Center for Religious Freedom, the Saudis also supply textbooks for public libraries, schools and colleges, and provide the content concerning Islam to some U.S. textbook publishers.

The Saudis’ potential influence on U.S. and international media was recently illustrated by the prince’s purchase of 5.6 percent of voting shares in News Corp., the world’s largest publisher of English newspapers. Moreover, Reuters reported on Dec. 5 that the prince announced his plan to “spread the right message” via a new television channel, “The Message,” to broadcast to the U.S. within two years.

Two posts later - I have also indicated the lesser known impact on the Clintons [Bush is well known and much talked about].

This is the danger behind any investment that comes from that direction - including pak. Its impact too on our political class' behaviour.

[Mahendra]

Oh! it is just the search and bury team releasing bowel gases after consuming Fauji Industries copy of MTR's aloo chana

[Prem]

No cause to worry. Gas and Paki are like close married cousins belonging to the same natural enviorenment. Where there is a Poaq, there is toxic gas. Gas and Paki, specially in Khaki, nothing but toxic bubble,They cant exist without each other .
I say india should withdraw from ShiaCheen to ease the Poaqpain and start talking about Ghaaasmir as final healing touch.

[Suraj]

brihaspati: I did see that before. My question is - so what is new ? There's already been plenty of money pouring in from the ME sources in recent years. I see the RAPE as small fry in comparison...

[Prem]

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9 ... -questions#
Siachen: ten questions

Not Dr But Patient Maleeha Lodhi
would be useful to recall the dispute’s military, political and diplomatic history. One way to do this is to ask ten key questions even if they are not exhaustive.

1. What is the source of the dispute?
Agreements between Pakistan and India that followed the wars of 1948 and 1971 did not demarcate or determine a dividing line in Kashmir’s northeastern reaches – one of the world’s most inhospitable and desolate regions. The July 1949 Karachi agreement established a ceasefire line, which after minor modification became the Line of Control under the 1972 Simla Agreement. This went as far as a point known by its grid reference NJ9842, south of the Siachen Glacier. From here on, the agreement said, the line continues “thence north to the glacier”. The area beyond NJ9842 was not delineated because it was deemed too harsh and inaccessible for habitation. Neither side at that time thought the region had any military or strategic importance. It was not anticipated that the glacier would later become a contentious issue and that modern mountain warfare or shifting strategic calculations would make it disputed.In the mid 1970s Pakistan began to allow international mountaineers and expedition teams to visit the glacier’s peaks. Pakistan’s administrative control of the area also received cartographic backing. International map publishers started showing the Line of Control proceeding north-eastward towards the Karakorum Pass and the Siachen area in Pakistani territory. Because of the treacherous terrain Pakistan established no permanent posts. Only scouting missions periodically went there.
. How significant was the June 1989 breakthrough?
It produced the outlines of a solution. For the first time the Indians agreed to relocate forces away from the disputed heights although in subsequent talks between military officials in 1989 differences emerged over where they would pull back. The language ‘redeployment of forces’ rather than ‘withdrawal’ was a Pakistani concession aimed at enabling Rajiv Gandhi to sell the agreement to his military and to political opponents in an election year. The agreement was endorsed by Prime Ministers Bhutto and Gandhi during the latter’s July 1989 visit to Islamabad.
7. Has ‘authentication’ been the main sticking point?
Yes. The 1989 joint statement made no mention of marking ‘current positions’, referring only to determining ‘future positions.’ Pakistan rejected authentication because a) it meant legitimising an illegal act and b) provided India the basis for a legal claim in negotiations later to delineate the area beyond NJ 9842.
India’s demand for authentication of an Agreed Ground Position Line (AGPL) on the map and on the ground rested on the argument that this would provide a legal or diplomatic safeguard if Pakistan later went back on commitments and captured the Saltoro ridge. Other than being a vehicle to formalise ‘current positions’, authentication has, over the years, served as an alibi for the Indian army to resist military disengagement. Former Indian officials have argued that withdrawal from Siachen will facilitate Pakistan’s access across Saltoro to the Karakoram Pass on the Chinese border. In what reflects the defence establishment’s thinking, they have also presented a strategic rationale for the LOC’s delineation beyond NJ9842 that provides India both a key location on the Chinese border and permanent control of heights overlooking Gilgit and Baltistan.

9. Did the 1999 Kargil episode have implications for talks on Siachen?
Inescapably. Any escalation of tensions or confrontation inevitably sets back diplomatic efforts, but Kargil did more. It gave Delhi an added how-can-we-trust-Pakistan justification to toughen terms for a Siachen settlement and put Islamabad in the dock for violating the Simla accord. It helped the Indian army argue that disengagement would risk Pakistan seizing the posts it vacated.
10. Did the last round in May 2011 make progress?
No. Pakistani officials detected a hardening in the Indian position. Delhi insisted that the line beyond NJ 9842 be delineated before any disengagement or withdrawal. This reversed the sequence proposed by Pakistan and earlier agreed by India: disengagement and moving outside the zone of conflict followed by talks on demarcation. A package proposal was conveyed in a Pakistani non-paper handed during the twelfth round. This reiterated redeployment and joint monitoring of the disengagement process. It also reiterated that once withdrawal schedules were prepared, ‘present’ and ‘future’ positions could be incorporated, subject to the earlier proviso. The talks ended in an impasse.

[brihaspati]

Suraj,
The rape would try out the same track through official "investments". Once the investments happen - with possible strings and helpful contributions to the political class, a doorway is opened by which Saudi style activities under cover and protection of the political class can continue. Making it legitimate will prevent any of the regular channels of state to intervene. You can see the difference in judicial reactions to potential "libel" cases. In Singhvi's case it has been quick, and pre-emptive, and I am sure perfectly within the law. But note that even the media did not dare air it before the courts could take action. The state protects its formal collaborators more than its informal ones like Purohit.

This is what happens to Saudi connections and regular financial investments covering up for the theological agenda - in USA and Euroland. The flows become so important and their sources so important - that their actions cannot be intervened into, or allowed to be exposed to the general public - thereby making it politically difficult for the political class to continue to collaborate with the funders.

Hawala transactions could still be chased into - and exposed, if an admin wanted to do so, with the political class relatively powerless to stop it. Not with legit and huge open investment. What the investors will demand then under that cover will be a direct commitment for the political class.

[Prem]

The least this GOI can ask is to have Hawala Bhai Dawood and his Gelf network as sign of goodwill before allowing FDI from Poaqs and other friends of Poaq.

Another lie caught . Pakistan is family Jagir and not a legtimate country
Overstating tax collection
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9 ... collection#

Dr Shoaib Suddle, the federal tax ombudsman (FTO) has taken suo motu notice against the attempt to overstate tax collection number for the year 2010-11 by the Federal Board of Revenue (FBR). This act of mis-statement of facts by the FBR not only embarrassed the government but also tarnished the image of the country in the eyes of the international community and financial institutions. Taking suo motu notice by the FTO is a courageous step and must be appreciated by all those who have love for their country.
To appreciate the action taken by the FTO, it is essential that I put the facts before the readers. The readers are reminded that around midnight of June 30, 2011, the then chairman FBR announced at a hastily convened press conference that the revised revenue collection target of Rs1,588 billion for the year 2010-11 has not only been achieved but surpassed to Rs1,590 billion.They “borrowed” Rs43.5 billion from large taxpayers, and the amounts were deposited in the branches of the National Bank of Pakistan (NBP) in the far-flung areas. The FBR withheld Rs143.9 billion of the taxpayers’ refund/drawback in June to jack up the tax collection number.
These two facts need elaboration. Firstly, the FBR coerced and cajoled the large taxpayers, mainly banks and energy sectors, to deposit Rs43.5 billion in the first week of July 2011 in the NBP of Tando Allah Yar and Fateh Jang branches. It may be pointed out that this practice of “borrowing” (pakar dhakar) has been in practice for decades. Efforts were made in the past to discourage this practice, but unfortunately it has returned with full vengeance and sophistication. The State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) was forced by the government to enter this “deposit” as back dated (June 30) tax collection. It is generally said that the governor SBP refused to do so and preferred to submit his resignation, which was later accepted by the government.Sadly, no one was held accountable for this misdeed which widened the ‘trust deficit’. The current economic team lost its credibility but continued to work in their respective positions. No heads were rolled; no one took the responsibility or resigned

[Suraj]

brihaspati, I fundamentally disagree that the state will be in any way powerless to manipulate or control these entities. I also view this power dynamic as an evolving one - greater investment in India gives us and not them greater control - following the 'if you owe a bank $1m they own you but if you owe them $1b you own them' relationship paradigm. I specifically stated a preference for FDI over FII because it makes investments sticky and essentially impossible to cart away; liquidation will, at best, be at paise to the rupee.

It's a common theme here that India is at grave risk of being controlled or influenced by various external parties. The kind of cabin fever mentality is compelling but at odds with how India's engagement with the world has developed over the past few decades, particularly since liberalization.

There was a time, for example, when it was by no means clear that the Chinese would grow into the kind of economic behemoth they are today - they invited in all the people with the $$ (and their associated agendas), and it seemed they were just going to be the grunts everyone used. Now the Chinese have lots of $$ and those who invested in them have IOUs. Rapid economic growth promotes its own sense of assertiveness; the entity that gained from the investment becomes more assertive, while those whose monies are sunk in as investment become dependent on the good humor of the one they invested in.

As such, I'd much rather the ME money came in via commercial channels and went into commercial entities, rather than via backchannels into a continuous parasitic mushrooming of madrassas in disadvantaged and ghettoed areas. Or the RAPE currently minting their $$s via the Dubai route into Bollywood and the entertainment industry in general.

That sort of fungible behind the scenes access to our economy is what I've a real issue with; direct investment will just serve to narrow the pool of disadvantaged people such entities can appeal to. It will also lessen GoI's development budget burden, and also continuously erode the political base that currently favours left-of-center politics, in favour of greater right-of-center politics driven by wealth preservation ("Republican") imperatives , as opposed to divide-the-pie ("Democrat") imperatives that are currently more prevalent. This is partly OT - perhaps more suited to a discussion of how changing economic dynamics will reshape Indian polity.

[lakshmikanth]

It could just be dead bodies decomposing..? But this is under ice and snow so not sure if that is enough time for that kind of buildup...

Snow prevents decomposing of dead bodies. Its not the bodies, its something else. It could be nook storage stuff, or it could be chemical warfare stuff, but I wonder if we are giving too much credit to the goat lovers. It might just be all the methane from digestion of pindi-channa accumulated over time and was released along with the avalanche.

[brihaspati]

That area is not known for volcanic activity which are one natural source of toxic emissions. But an interesting angle no doubt. Maybe the geology should be looked into greater detail. There has been an odd increase in certain seismic wave patterns in many parts of the world recently over the last one year. If that is the case it could have triggered avalanches more frequently than long established patterns.

The weather pattern there is showing anomalies too. In general the snow fall is increasing and glaciers actually slightly increasing in contrast to rest of the Himalayas.

[SBajwa]

BJP just came back to power in Delhi muncipality but Delhiitees are Cowards (like in 1999 Kandhara Hijack). Let's hope that in next crisis Delhiites are not on roads asking to release akin to Masood Azhar, Zargar and Omar sheikh so that thousands others are also put to death!!

BJP on power means naPakis are restless and will do everything they want (with Akhilesh/Mulayam in their pocket)!!.

[abhishek_sharma]

>> but Delhiitees are Cowards

Sir, only you are brave. How can others match your god-like level?

[abhishek_sharma]

Pak minister warns of Taliban push into India, offers help

I think this counts as FDI.

[shiv]

OT but "lapped up everything you wrote?" Really? Exactly how vain and full of yourself are you, shiv?
revolution."

Only as vain as is needed to wind you up given your need to make barbs presumably to make yourself feel better.

So, yes, by interpolating a suggestion of relevance to your repeated insight about Islam in TSP, I was presuming that there was a point to your continual and emphatic reassertion of a point that is not really all that subtle or esoteric. Now that you've explained, I understand that there isn't any real point to it.

You mean you interpolated a cooked up fake suggestion that I did not make to score a point?

The "point" is that there are divisions, and unless we look for divisions we will not find them. The one standard hallmark of discussions about Pakistan and Islam on BRF is that "all are united". They are not united. Pakistan has divisions that may be usable. In fact I am beginning to wonder if one way forward might really be to help those who need help in Pakistan - like the rich people who are losing their land and influence because of pressure from the landless/poor who have "moved across" to the L-e-T/J-u-D camp.

Another question that I have no answers for is that Pakistan has (AFAIK) retained almost a photocopy of the jati based social structures that existed in 1947. The only means of empowerment of the lower strata of these people that I have read about is via Pakistan army/LeT/Jamat ud Dawa. If true it means that their empowerment is not in Indian interests. The people who hold them in contempt may be potential allies.

Among the biggest contributors to the LeT-JuD wahhabandis as per Ayesha Sidiqa above are the newly empowered middle class. One more question: If the "middle class" is growing the economy should be growing. But only if economy is growing faster than population can a growing midlle class indicate a real overall expansion.

If the middle class is growing but the economy is relatively stagnant and the population is growing, it means that the middle class is growing at the expense of someone else. Who is that someone else? Are they the aid-givers like USA/KSA. Madam Sidiqa has not written a word about the 30 million Pakistanis who have suddenly appeared in the last 30 days when population estimates jumped from 170 million to 200 million. Have these people all magically become middle class supporters of Jammat ud Dawa?