Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Apr 2012 08:29

Dharma R wrote:A-V supposed to be a canister launched mizzileee.... isnt it?

Yes. But before tha you need to proof the flight vehicle.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Apr 2012 08:32

Several things are happening at the same time.

PRC under pressure from all sides - South China Sea, India border (border exercise), US pacific ocean deployment
India testing its final version of ICBM for China and

Pakistan under pressure to yield in Af Pak and also resume talks and trade with India.

PRC preparing for a short border conflict in AP with India
Pakistan trying to support PRC with battle readiness in Siachen,

This may explain the avalanche in the ammo dump at the base camp of Siachen

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 18 Apr 2012 09:23

agni 5 cep is expected to be 50m+-
can someone tell me the cep of icbms like topolov m or satan of russian
and trident of us uk

where we stand on accuracy point of view ???

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 18 Apr 2012 09:27

CEP trident 1 is 400 m.. trident 2 is 100m..

50M for a 5000km + range is extremely impressive..

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 18 Apr 2012 10:20

ramana wrote:

The RV is same as A3. So its already flight qualified.
All those rectangles are patch antennas for telemetry.
The conical Third Stage is the grey portion.
The copper colored section is the adapter section or payload interface section which has the mission computer etc

See the raised band above the flag from the white section running aft is the conduit cover that protects the cabling. Its also called the cable raceway.

The RV is quite compact. Some of you might want to sale it with the avg height of people in the background but adjust for camera angle etc. If the body weighs 1.5 tonne then it sure packs a lot of weight for error correction or to go a long way!

Amazing the RV has a patch antenna on the nose.
Most likely an ablation sensor?

Bet all the folks are running hot expert opinion on that picture!!!
India is serious in releasing the picture.

Ramana sir, RV is not same as A3. This RV is much leaner, i mean the L/D ratio. They simple brought down the second stage of A3 removing the inter stage gap and used that height of the gap + part of A3 RV height to build conical third stage. So RV is much leaner. Intention is clear. It is a MaRV.

vina · Post by **vina** » 18 Apr 2012 10:20

ramana wrote:The RV is same as A3...
The conical Third Stage is the grey portion....
The RV is quite compact. ...

All this makes me wonder if this version of Agni 5 will be deployed. It makes no sense to put a unitary warhead on a big expensive strategic missile , which will be a second strike capability and hence take out the max number of targets with whatever missiles survived a first strike.

So, I do think, this is an R&D missile at this stage that will get "operationalized" or even if it does , it will be in very limited numbers.

The "conical frustum" 3rd stage looks funny. I am not sure if that is so, or it is just the interstage tapering to fit a unitary warhead. The big enchilada , "full service missile" will have a conventional cylindrical 3rd stage, with a big enough base to house a payload adapter of a diameter large enough to house an MIRV bus and possibly housing 8 to 10 warheads.

Now that goes back to the basic question of fizzile or not at Pokhran II with the thermo-nuclear weapon. We will see to that question in the next versions of Agni V. If it has a MIRV bus with multiple warheads, the answer would be very clear.

Bet all the folks are running hot expert opinion on that picture!!!
India is serious in releasing the picture.

This and the Arihant are serious warnings at PRC. A BTW, the Agni III and V series are totally "Shakinah" looking. They are true Submarine /Canister launch capable missiles (with minor modifications, bulk of missile being largely common for both land and sea versions).

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 18 Apr 2012 10:21

Acharya wrote:
Pakistan trying to support PRC with battle readiness in Siachen,
This may explain the avalanche in the ammo dump at the base camp of Siachen

Please explain the above.

In the whole buildup to Agni launch in media articles, 'China' as the target is being given way too much prominence. Not a diplomatically astute thing to do.

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 18 Apr 2012 10:24

This A5 is destroying my work efficiency.....

And for you guys @ Khan land, this must be a long night?

koti · Post by **koti** » 18 Apr 2012 10:25

sum wrote:So, from the article, it seems we have the MIRV tech ready and waiting in the missiles but do not have the maal which would be used for MIRV??

Atleast, this can stress the target's BMD's.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Apr 2012 10:26

Fundamentally any coordiantion between Pakistan army and the PLA has to be broken up.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 18 Apr 2012 10:29

RoyG wrote:What sort of yield is the unitary warhead supposed to be packin? 150-200 kt fbf? Major political/security talks taking place with the US on the 19th.

Assuming Indian TN is a no go, you can have following options or developments thereof.

French FBF warhead MR-41 - about 700 kg for 500 kt
Brits Bomb - 1800lb with an ‘unboosted fission’ warhead! ....Two core-boosted devices - Orange Herald (Large) and Orange Herald (Small) - had been drawn up....The small version had a target weight of 2000 lb Orange Herald (Small) achieved a satisfactory yield of 700 kilotons and the (Large) was never fired."
Amrikhan Zombie bomb not warhead - 1690 kt for 3450 kgs
Amrikhan Physics package - "Swan device had a yield of 15 kilotons, weighed 105 lb (47.6 kg)". My personal favourite to screw up everything.
Soviet RDS-6S (product 205K) warhead - 1800 kg for 400 kt carried atop an RSS (S-30)
SDRE warhead - 200 kt for 800 kg+

Hun tussi dasso, tvannu ki chaida?

Best of luck DRDO.

This foreplay is getting too much for me.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 18 Apr 2012 10:30

tushar_m wrote:agni 5 cep is expected to be 50m+-
can someone tell me the cep of icbms like topolov m or satan of russian
and trident of us uk

where we stand on accuracy point of view ???

Navigational pods of strategic missiles are getting upgraded regularly. So what we hear from open source on CEP of various strategic missiles like Trident are old/obsolete values.

Similarly 50m CEP listed for Agni 5 are notional values. Real achievements may not be revealed.

On our stand on accuracy: We are mostly at par with the Superpower and trying to close the gap if any left.

CEP of Conventional Trident is listed as 10m a decade ago.

partha · Post by **partha** » 18 Apr 2012 10:36

Any idea what time the launch is?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 18 Apr 2012 10:44

Singha wrote:what are the advantages if any of a depressed trajectory 500km highest point vs 1200km? will it significantly delay the detection by ground based early warning radars ? does it make more difficult for interceptor missiles?

Along with depressed trajectory and MaRV, an ABM system encountering such combination will have a tough time in finding out missile's impact point. Instead of firing two interceptor missiles against a target( if that is the norm) it has to fire several interceptors and interceptors loose energy fast in encountering such system degrading further their Pk.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Apr 2012 10:47

Doing a rough scaling of the A-V and taking along hard look at the Arihant,it appears that the A-V is approx 2m jn diameter.The ATV-1 has a hull diameter of around 14-15m,which is wide enough to accommodate two rows of silos which can accommodate an A-V diameter missile.The length of the A-V is a determining factor,as if it is larger than the hull of the ATV-1,a small hump may have to be fitted to the larger ATVs to accommodate the extra length of the missile.An approx. 1m difference is evident in the ATV-1s hull abaft the sail,meant to accommodate the 4 silos for the K-15s or single K series BM.The large "turtleback",as seen on the PLANs Jin class SSBMs,which carry 12 JL-2 SSBMs, may not be neccessary on an SSBM with an A-V ICBM.The hump could be smaller and less pronounced.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Apr 2012 10:48

2 years back I had a talk with a retired missile scientist who worked with the prithvi. Doubts that the thermonuke detonation was a success. Says India will eventually have to test especially with the growing pakistani and chinese arsenal. Said it could happen as early as late 2012. I have my doubts though especially given the fact that we have so many nuclear projects on the table and are bound by a few international agreements.

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 18 Apr 2012 10:56

See the "last liner" in this report: http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scienc ... 324345.ece

"....There was tremendous potential for achieving higher ranges, he added."

Amitabh · Post by **Amitabh** » 18 Apr 2012 11:02

partha wrote:Any idea what time the launch is?

Dusk, according to Shiv Aroor. Sunset at Wheeler Island occurs about 50 minutes before sunset in Delhi.

partha · Post by **partha** » 18 Apr 2012 11:04

Amitabh wrote:
partha wrote:Any idea what time the launch is?
Dusk, according to Shiv Aroor. Sunset at Wheeler Island occurs about 50 minutes before sunset in Delhi.

Thanks.

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 18 Apr 2012 11:06

Agni-V to be test fired today

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 18 Apr 2012 11:08

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Apr 2012 11:12

In the picture I posted yesterday, the missile looks different from the pic ramana posted above. Seems like some parts of the missile got a paint job.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 18 Apr 2012 11:15

Mock poll: ( and tension killer)

Who amongst you all agrees that we should license produce the MAZ 543 for a number of this puppies?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 18 Apr 2012 11:43

She sure is beauty. A Lean Mean Missile. Make us proud!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Apr 2012 11:50

juvva wrote:See the "last liner" in this report: http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scienc ... 324345.ece

"....There was tremendous potential for achieving higher ranges, he added."

Read together with (from the same report)

V.K. Saraswat, Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister, told The Hindu, the launch will mark a “historic day.” “Agni-V is a game-changer and a technological marvel. It is a weapon which can perform multiple functions.” It could be used for anti-satellite capability, for putting micro and nano satellites in orbit and carry multiple warheads.

Dr. Saraswat said it was comparable to the missiles of this class developed by the U.S., France, Russia and China.

To understand the true capability of A5, look up the details of any comparable missile in the same weight and size class.

He said the performance of the systems during the phase three and four tests had been good and satisfactory.

What phase 3 and 4? Did A4 have a MaRV or am I reading too much?

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 18 Apr 2012 11:55

juvva wrote:See the "last liner" in this report: http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scienc ... 324345.ece

"....There was tremendous potential for achieving higher ranges, he added."

from the same article " It could be used for anti-satellite capability....."

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 18 Apr 2012 12:10

Atri wrote:

Do not see vented stages in the photographs of the actual missile, posted in this forum today?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 18 Apr 2012 12:15

AdityaM wrote:
Acharya wrote:
Pakistan trying to support PRC with battle readiness in Siachen,
This may explain the avalanche in the ammo dump at the base camp of Siachen
Please explain the above.

In the whole buildup to Agni launch in media articles, 'China' as the target is being given way too much prominence. Not a diplomatically astute thing to do.

Diplomacy is more astute when it is backed by muscle.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 18 Apr 2012 12:26

partha wrote:Any idea what time the launch is?

As per TV reports, between 18:40 HRS to 20:00 HRS

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 18 Apr 2012 12:31

Narad wrote:
partha wrote:Any idea what time the launch is?
As per TV reports, between 18:40 HRS to 20:00 HRS

Can we dare get some shut eye based on this info?

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Apr 2012 12:31

Nice!:

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 18 Apr 2012 13:18

^ Real beauty

all the best to DRDO and all other persons working/worked on it.

sum · Post by **sum** » 18 Apr 2012 13:53

^^ This tension is killing...cant imagine the tension at Wheeler's island.

Wish they had done the test like for K-15 and then announced about it ( to stop this tension for this jingo due to which even his workday is wasted constantly refreshing BR missile dhaaga page)!

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 18 Apr 2012 14:01

For all the impatience jingos..

The Flight Readiness Review meeting and Launch Authorisation Board are scheduled to meet later in the day to give the final nod for the launch of the missile at around 19.00 hrs.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 18 Apr 2012 14:12

sum wrote: ( to stop this tension for this jingo due to which even his workday is wasted constantly refreshing BR missile dhaaga page)!

Exactly what I am doing!

And thank you dinesha ji, at least I can rest easy till 7 pm!

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 18 Apr 2012 14:16

Wonder if its me or is it my Indian inferiority,:-- The missile assembly plant looks waay too TFTA.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Apr 2012 14:54

with a length of around 18m, would require a Delta4 style huge hump to accomodate the A5 as-is onto a sub.

we will need a fatter and shorter missile , all stages composite - a entirely different missile from A5 to be the K-4.

>>Who amongst you all agrees that we should license produce the MAZ 543 for a number of this puppies?

you know I always vote yes on such polls

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Apr 2012 14:56

imo the copper colour thing might be contain the engine and nozzles for a HAM/MARV thing...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Apr 2012 15:05

Atri wrote:

oh my that's a nifty bit of modelling!

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 18 Apr 2012 15:12

Agni V video

http://www.timesnow.tv/Agni-5-set-to-so ... 400314.cms