Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

Arav · Post by **Arav** » 18 Apr 2012 06:58

Anujan wrote: Rumors are that track-2 wallahs successfully sold the BS that "Pakis should be stakeholders in India's economy and stability" and want opportunities to invest and sell in India. This is a step towards that direction. As a next step, look for increased travel permits for artists, exhibitors, performers ityadi, followed by relaxing the investment rules.

I think India will become what lebanon was to the ME. A destination for wealthy Saudis to invest, booze, party. Then go back home and tell the abduls how much of detestable debauchery goes on there. Serves twin purposes of entertainment for elites and whipping boy for the abduls.

Anujanji, Interesting A group of researchers at IDSA in a book titled "Whither Pakistan" has this to say "There are important sectarian minorities in Pakistan that may together with the Barelvis constitute the majority. If such a group engages itself in a bloody struggle with the Taliban, it may lead to a ‘Lebanonisation’ of the Pakistani state."

Here is a link to that book Whither Pakistan. Free Ebook is available.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Apr 2012 06:59

Anujan wrote:Little birdie tells me that gyari was no "outpost". It was an ammo dump and logistics base.

And oh, many many more than 150 met their 72.

Which may explain this cacophony of Pakhani voices saying "Nature has fcued us Pakis - so you Indians need to withdraw from Siacheen"

My house was burgled. So you leave your front door open so I can help myself.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Apr 2012 07:00

Demands for Jaziya, over and above the close to 30 billion dollars extracted by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan from its US patron, can be expected.

India’s business community should take note that trade with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan does carry the risk of defaulted payments:

‘Pakistan may not be able to service debts next year’

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Apr 2012 07:03

Suraj wrote:brihaspati, I fundamentally disagree that the state will be in any way powerless to manipulate or control these entities. I also view this power dynamic as an evolving one - greater investment in India gives us and not them greater control - following the 'if you owe a bank $1m they own you but if you owe them $1b you own them' relationship paradigm. I specifically stated a preference for FDI over FII because it makes investments sticky and essentially impossible to cart away; liquidation will, at best, be at paise to the rupee.

It's a common theme here that India is at grave risk of being controlled or influenced by various external parties. The kind of cabin fever mentality is compelling but at odds with how India's engagement with the world has developed over the past few decades, particularly since liberalization.

There was a time, for example, when it was by no means clear that the Chinese would grow into the kind of economic behemoth they are today - they invited in all the people with the $$ (and their associated agendas), and it seemed they were just going to be the grunts everyone used. Now the Chinese have lots of $$ and those who invested in them have IOUs. Rapid economic growth promotes its own sense of assertiveness; the entity that gained from the investment becomes more assertive, while those whose monies are sunk in as investment become dependent on the good humor of the one they invested in.

As such, I'd much rather the ME money came in via commercial channels and went into commercial entities, rather than via backchannels into a continuous parasitic mushrooming of madrassas in disadvantaged and ghettoed areas. Or the RAPE currently minting their $$s via the Dubai route into Bollywood and the entertainment industry in general.

That sort of fungible behind the scenes access to our economy is what I've a real issue with; direct investment will just serve to narrow the pool of disadvantaged people such entities can appeal to. It will also lessen GoI's development budget burden, and also continuously erode the political base that currently favours left-of-center politics, in favour of greater right-of-center politics driven by wealth preservation ("Republican") imperatives , as opposed to divide-the-pie ("Democrat") imperatives that are currently more prevalent. This is partly OT - perhaps more suited to a discussion of how changing economic dynamics will reshape Indian polity.

Suraj,
I appreciate your confidence. But we should not compare with the totalitarian one party state called China. The Chinese gov does not have to care a fib about minority opinions. When it started inviting external capital - it had no mercantile establishment sufficiently strong to manipulate the gov. Even now, China is virtually a military junta. Its structures of state control are way beyond anything that the Indian rashtra can manage.

Those sorts of independence of the state from mercantile pressures are not yet reachable in India. In the early days of Nehruvian growth and pseudo-socialism, the weakness of the neo-capitalist class also meant that state was relatively independent of mercantile pressures. Ironically with the liberalization and the "changing dynamics" as you put it - the mercantile class has increased its clout tremendously. So if they go by their persistent historical behaviour as a class - they are more likely to prevent counter imperialistic hitting back for fear of jeopardizing financial flows and "growth", and even protect hostile ideologies if seen as source of capital.

The situation is fluid.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Apr 2012 07:26

brihaspati, it might be worthwhile to consider how capable we were at negotiating on our terms 20-30 years ago with any entity. whether it was the US, Russia, Europe or ME entities, to what the dynamics are today. We engage with the world far more confidently now than we did just a decade ago, partly because we have more clout to do things our way and get away with it, or because others will increasingly have to accomodate us.

What you call confidence is, to me merely a personal view of the evolving state of external engagements on India's part of the past couple of decades, though primarily on economic terms. On the same lines, I see your viewpoint as a little paranoid. I'm sure you can accept that characterization if you term mine mere confidence

By BR standards, nothing that GoI accomplishes will be nationalistic enough. But that is an expected outcome of the tenor of this forum. That doesn't mean I'm sanguine about the issues at hand - it just means I retain my own views, and particularly on the matter of economics, I felt myself interested enough to comment on this. Ultimately I see the Pakis, much less the RAPEs, as simply not a significant enough entity, and of multiple options available a) firewalling money flowing in, which has not worked b) existing backchannel routes and c) an open FDI route, I prefer the latter because it sinks their money into our asset base and leaves them stuck with that situation.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Apr 2012 08:27

The "news" that comes out of Pakistan seems to have the following data points in general
1. Pakistan's economy is growing, albeit slowly
2. Pakistan's middle class is growing
3. Pakistan's population is growing. Rapidly
4. Support for Islamic extremism in the form of Wahhabi-Deobandi zealots is growing
5. The "growing" Pakistani middle class are the prime fund givers to Islamist extremists groups like the Jamaat-ud Dawa and now the Difa-e-Pakistan
6. The "government" of Pakistan is unable to collect taxes from its people
7. Islamic groups like the Jammat-ud-Dawa/Difa-e-Pakhana are fully capable of extracting taxes from Pakistanis in the name of "islamic taxes".
8. Radical Islamic groups - JuD/DeP are "filling in" and replacing government functions where the latter are deemed inadequate. The filling in appears to be primarily in the areas of education (clubbed with feeding poor children), support to the army in logistics, intelligence, relief work and offensive operations; social work in empowering those who are under the yoke of feudals.

It looks like Pakistan has two governments that tolerate each other and accept each other because they have complementary roles. One is the regular government to deal with the 3.5 allies, and the other is an islamic government. The latter is the de facto Home ministry, the former for external affairs and beggary. Both do defence.

The "regular" government that the west talks so much about - which was voted in after giving the radical Islamic parties only 0.0000000000000006 of one vote is the one that is "struggling" to provide water, power and other facilities. But a lot of the social support that the government is supposed to give is managed by the Islamic parties who collect the taxes they need. In the meantime the "government" collects aid and claims inability to collect taxes from a very "poor" Pakistan because they have to spend oh so much on defence.

The radical islamic parties, who got only 0.0000000000000006 of one vote don't need to be voted in because they stay in power and are empowered to tax the population of Pakistan with no protest.

The Pakistani army gets money and help from both sides - the "government" and the radical Islamists.

Pakistan has a unique structure in place. It has a hybrid "elected' government and a non elected "popular Islamic" government working side by side. This is a "winning" structure and unless I am mistaken it is guaranteed to ensure that Islami extremists take over Pakistan. All aid from the west actually helps and promotes this. I think that we are going to have to accept and face up to a Pakistan that is totally radicalized next door. That is OK - India can handle that - but for me the worry is at what stage the US will do a U-turn and take up the Islamic radicals as their allies. That must be prevented if possible. Imagine a day when the US hands over designs of a compact thermonuclear bomb to a Tali-Paki government "ally" along with a missile shield to guard against an intransigent India that fails to vacate Kashmir.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Apr 2012 08:56

X Posted from the Oil and Natural Gas News and Discussion thread.

If true, it looks like our Government will be handing over a loaded gun with a hair trigger to a psychopathic teenager , namely the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, who will promptly point the gun to our head:

TAPI pipeline: Pakistan, Afghanistan and India agree on transit fee

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 18 Apr 2012 09:15

halaled!

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 18 Apr 2012 09:18

anishns wrote:^^^ Boss! its a paki news source!
I think this will always remain a pipe dream for the great Ghazis to collect Jizziya from the Kaffirs!

Read the next 2 articles again from a paki source

[url=htp://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspap ... conclusive]Talks on TAPI pipeline inconclusive[/url]

India, Afghanistan fail to agree on gas transit fee

partha · Post by **partha** » 18 Apr 2012 11:13

Pakistan has no connection with terrorist organisations: Sherry Rehman
And I am batman.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 18 Apr 2012 12:33

^ And Gilani has no hands

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 18 Apr 2012 12:37

arun wrote: India’s business community should take note that trade with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan does carry the risk of defaulted payments:

‘Pakistan may not be able to service debts next year’

Last thing India should do is execute trades in INR with Pakistanis. They'll just fire up their printing presses if that is the case. Ideally India should demand that Pakis pay in precious metals (gold, silver, platinum) or in the form of commodities like oil (they get it at a discount from Arabs already, so could pass on savings to India), gas, ore etc.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 18 Apr 2012 13:23

Ahh! The silent majority in Pakistan speaks

Countrywide rallies demand release of Qadri

ISLAMABAD: Thousands of people staged rallies across the country on Friday demanding the release of Mumtaz Qadri, the self-confessed killer of former Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer, sentenced to death by the Anti-Terrorism Court (ATC).

The ATC on Saturday found Malik Mumtaz Hussain Qadri, one of Salmaan Taseer’s bodyguards, guilty of murder and sentenced him to death. About 1,000 people gathered at Islamabad’s Aabpara Chowk demanding Mumtaz Qadri’s release, an AFP photographer said.

The protesters, including supporters of religious parties and students of local madrassas, chanted slogans such as “Qadri is hero” and “We salute his courage”. They called for Mumtaz Qadri to be released immediately and shouted: “We are ready to sacrifice our lives for the honour of the Prophet Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him).”

Rallies were also held in several other cities, including Karachi, Quetta, Multan and Rawalpindi, where witnesses said protesters blocked roads by burning tires. — AFP Our correspondents add: All major markets in Lahore remained closed on Friday responding to the countrywide strike call given by the Sunni Ittehad Council (SIC) to protest the death sentence awarded to Mumtaz Qadri.

Addressing a large rally in Lahore, the SIC leaders warned the rulers of a long march to Islamabad if Mumtaz Qadri was not released and offered President Zardari a guarantee of full five-year term to his government if he pardoned Qadri

. Various religious parties and groups staged rallies and demonstrations at different places demanding early release of Mumtaz Qadri according to Shariah, while prayer leaders in Friday sermons highlighted the issue of blasphemy of the holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) and the ‘Western-funded conspiracies’ (Yindoo and Yehudi ignored

) to amend the blasphemy laws in Pakistan, vowing to resist all such moves with full might (Hold my body tight, all night oh yeah

).

The SIC rally, which marched from Data Darbar to Nasir Bagh, was led by its president Fazal Karim and others. Participants of the rally announced to observe a protest day on every Friday till the release of Mumtaz Qadri.

In Chakwal, Tehrik-e-Islam, SIC and other organisations took out the rally from Jamia Islamia Ghausia. In Gujranwala, a rally was taken out from the Sialkot Gate on the call of SIC . Similar rallies were also held in Khanewal, Lalamusa, Nankana Sahib and Sialkot, demanding the release of Mumtaz Qadri.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 18 Apr 2012 13:24

shiv wrote: Pakistan has a unique structure in place. It has a hybrid "elected' government and a non elected "popular Islamic" government working side by side. This is a "winning" structure and unless I am mistaken it is guaranteed to ensure that Islami extremists take over Pakistan.

Not necessarily. The structure only ensures that islamists prosper at the expense of aam abdul and have disproportionate control over govt.

The islamists can prosper more and for a longer time actually by back seat driving, rather than take up the power directly themselves - think imran khan. It ensures that they themselves remain immune to any popular anger.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 18 Apr 2012 17:22

Bin Laden family’s departure from Pakistan delayed, expected later Wednesday

The five women also had outstanding fines of about $110 each, which had not been fully paid. This has now been done, said Khalil.

Also, the brother of bin Laden’s Yemeni wife Amal Ahmed Abdel-Fatah al-Sada was not in possession of his passport when they tried to leave Tuesday because it was being held by a Pakistani court, said Khalil.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 18 Apr 2012 17:27

Pakistan imploding under sectarian violence

After decades of waging the propaganda war against India for its highhanded treatment of Kashmiris, Pakistan is now the subject of a similar campaign by India who has highlighted the plight of Shias being murdered by sectarian terrorists in Gilgit-Baltistan.

The patron-in-chief of the jihadis, including the Taliban, has been General Hameed Gul, who headed Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence during the formative years when Russian-made weapons were shipped from Egypt and elsewhere to equip Afghans and others to fight the Red Army in Afghanistan. General Gul was recently confronted by an inimical group of Shias who were protesting outside the Parliament in Islamabad. As the crowd complained against his longstanding relationship with the militants leading terrorist attacks against Shias, the General instead came off as the biggest dove as he addressed the crowd while his son whispered speaking notes in his ear. General Hameed Gul claimed to have initiated deweaponising the militants before he was removed from ISI in June 1989.

I happened to meet General Hameed Gul in a suburb of Toronto in the mid-90s when he visited Canada. Sitting among a large group of devotees, General Gul spoke with pride of the “successes” achieved by the Taliban in Afghanistan. I specifically asked the General if he was at all concerned about the excessive spread of small arms and assault weapons in Pakistan and Afghanistan. His answer then was quite different from what he stated on April 10 in Islamabad. General Gul looked at me with barely concealed disgust and observed that weapons were the ornaments for men. “It is the same weapons that will come in handy to ward off the enemy,” proclaimed General Gul
Since his proclamation in the mid-90s, the same ornaments have dispatched thousands of Pakistanis to their graves and have brought the state and the society to a near default. In the comity of nations, Pakistan is increasingly being referred to as a pariah state. Even the overseas Pakistanis now march outside Pakistani embassies to protest against the massacres of minorities that continue unabated. Wherea,s once Pakistan complained of human rights violations by India in the United Nations, other are now accusing Pakistan of the same.

.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 18 Apr 2012 17:34

I see this on rediff ticker

17:25 Decide for yourself, Pak SC tells converted Hindu women:
Three Hindu women, who were allegedly forced to convert to Islam and marry Muslims, were today allowed by Pakistan's supreme court to decide their own future and where they want to live.

A three-judge bench headed by Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry asked Rinkle Kumari alias Faryal Bibi, Lata Kumari alias Hafsa Bibi and Asha Kumari alias Haleema Bibi to inform the court registrar's office whether they want to live with their husbands or their families.

The bench ordered the police to provide complete security to the women and warned that police officials would be held responsible for negligence if they were harmed.

The court said the women were old enough to make the right decisions for themselves. The women were later taken to the registrar's office for recording their statements.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 18 Apr 2012 18:38

I saw a news ticker on Times Now saying that "Pakistan wants to play their home cricket series in India" I am guessing that it means that Pakistan is going to be playing some X country but in India (just like in Dubai). any where else?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 18 Apr 2012 18:54

Its all about money, honey!

(Recd via email from AfPak Channel

Cash rules everything around me

In Paktika Province last week, mid-level Taliban commander Mohammad Ashan walked right up to a police checkpoint holding his own wanted poster, which offered a reward of $100 for his location (Post). A U.S. soldier who arrived to confirm Ashan's identity said the militant leader himself confirmed, "Yes, yes, that's me! Can I get my award now?

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 18 Apr 2012 19:10

Expect Jyoti Malhotra to write an article asking for additional security for Hafeez

Give me more security, my life is in danger: Hafiz Saeed

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Apr 2012 21:00

Suraj,
I thought I was actually choosing the more complementary one between "confidence" and "blind faith". If you are dissatisfied with "mere confidence", of course I can choose "blind faith" if that is preferable!

We are both guided by prior experience as far as history - recent and long past - both in economics and politics to come to our conclusions. It is human nature to come to different conclusions about projected future based on the same past data.

I have long given up on the "pure economics" drives humanity type of economics that underlies a lot of political dogma. Marxism is not necessarily dead even in those who think they are talking from a purely capitalist viewpoint. The common point in vulgar Marxism is the belief that it is economics which shapes and determines human nature and action. I moved my teaching and research interests to exploring rational choice in reality because rational choice does not work out in practice - at least not in the naive way most economic theory preaches.

What you call "paranoid" is my considered caution based on obvious tendencies in the subcontinent forming interest groups, that persist and recur over historical cycles - irrespective of the actual form of the financial structure of the period. In the long run monetary economics does restrict policy behaviour - but there can be long periods when ideological and other tactical or strategic behaviour can be employed by power groups in complete mismatch to the long-period view.

As for relying on what the rashtra promises or politicos claim that their words be trusted where the safety of the aam is considered- we have sufficient examples from Indian leadership where what they promised or dismissed as ever imaginable - smoothly turns into inevitability to be normally accepted and suffered and tolerated by the aam. What galls is the sheer criminality of disassociating themselves from the very actions that led to ultimate reversals and atrocities.

The warning against encouraging Islamists in the nationalist movement with a separate Islamic agenda was brushed aside as paranoid. The repeated historical experience of Islamic pretension of peaceful and trader nature onlee turning into jihad was brushed aside as paranoid. The warning of future Paki behaviour against Hindus and Sikhs in their land was dismissed as paranoid. Even future behaviour of BD as a new hotbed of revived islamism against India was dismissed as paranoid. Warnings about China were dismissed as paranoid.

Costs were never borne by the leaders and functionaries and voices taking up the challenge on behalf of the H&D of the rashtryia leadership - but by the aam, and aam soldeirs too.

Let us each stick to our conclusions and only the future will show who was correct.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Apr 2012 21:18

Anindya wrote:Give me more security, my life is in danger: Hafiz Saeed

Wasn't the Pig Seed taunting the US to get him? Why this rona dhona then? Has he lost faith in his patrons or have they abandoned him?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Apr 2012 21:41

brihaspati, thanks for the stimulating conversation. Don't get too hung up on the term paranoid - take the verbal volley just as you dish it out

Besides, I've already stated that I'm not dismissing the potential for risk from FDI from these sources; my point is that these entities already have their hands firmly stuck in the Indian economic pie - by accident, incompetence on our part, or design. Under the circumstances as they are now, the best possible situation IMHO, is to gravitate these investments into those areas where we can both profit most and control their behavior most. You may not agree, of course, but you're certainly not obligated to.

pran · Post by **pran** » 18 Apr 2012 21:48

pankajs wrote:
Anindya wrote:Give me more security, my life is in danger: Hafiz Saeed
Wasn't the Pig Seed taunting the US to get him? Why this rona dhona then? Has he lost faith in his patrons or have they abandoned him?

He was a champion cheerleader of the Purest Islamic Army, where death is welcomed. He should be asked why he fears for his life when he sent so many people to their deaths, and it is his turn now to follow the greatest traditions. He knows for sure that he will be done by a purely Islamic Paki , where backstabbing tradition goes beyond the tradition of sacrifice for a cause.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Apr 2012 21:51

Maybe he fears someone (in his individual capacity) from the TSPA or ISI may decide to collect the $10 million reward! Maybe one of the duffers is planning a covert ops or perhaps jernail G-ullu.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Apr 2012 22:24

Anujan wrote:Little birdie tells me that gyari was no "outpost". It was an ammo dump and logistics base.

And oh, many many more than 150 met their 72.

They might have been stockpiling the stuff for Kargil redux or joint ops with the PRC when the dragon feels constipated.
I did think the rhona dhona was excessive for the avalanche.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 18 Apr 2012 22:29

Pakistan's Army chief Kayani urges less spending on defence

Highlights: -

- "peaceful coexistence" with arch-rival India is vital

- wants resolution of Siachen issue

After Yindoo India jacked up defense spending by 17%, the Chief of the largest terrorist group has urged peace. 130 wanna-be mujahids were recently claimed by mother nature for not being properly Islamic.

Beggars can't be choosers Mr. Kiya-nahi.

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 18 Apr 2012 22:48

Is the Indian economy's growth finally beginning to erode even the Jernails swagger and certainty ? Has the thin legged Bania idolator with his love of money skulking in his dark alleyway brought the TFTA mard to wave the white flag ?

The first flickerings perhaps

Kayani urges less spending on defence
AFP |

SKARDU: Pakistan’s powerful army chief Wednesday said he would like to see the country spend less on defence, arguing that national security depended on development as much as on protecting borders.

Chief of the Army Staff, General Ashfaq Kayani, said “peaceful coexistence” with arch-rivals India was vital to both countries and the welfare of the people should be a priority.

The nuclear-armed neighbours have fought several wars since independence in 1947 and both spend heavily on their military while millions of their people languish in poverty.

“Peaceful coexistence between the two neighbours is very important so that everybody can concentrate on the well-being of the people,” he told reporters.

The general was speaking at Skardu airport in northern Pakistan after visiting the remote Gayari army base in disputed Kashmir, which was hit by a massive avalanche on April 7.

Rescuers are still searching for nearly 140 people buried by the mass of snow and rock at the camp, which lies around 4,000 metres (13,000 feet) above sea level.

Pakistan and India invest significant resources in maintaining a military presence on the Siachen Glacier — dubbed “the world’s highest battleground” — and the tragedy has sparked lively debate about the human and financial cost of defending an uninhabitable patch of snow and rock.

Kayani said soldiers would do their duty come what may, but defending borders should not be the country’s sole priority.

“We in the army understand very well that there should be a very good balance between defence and development. You cannot be spending on defence alone and forgetting about development,” he said.

“Ultimately the security of a country is not only that you secure boundaries and borders but it is when people that live in the country feel happy, their needs are being met. Only in that case will a country be truly safe.” He said national security should be a comprehensive concept.

“And therefore we would like to spend less on defence, definitely,” he said.

“Any country should do the same — more focus should be on the welfare of the people.” Pakistan has spent more than half its history since independence under military rule and Kayani is widely regarded as the most powerful man in the country.

He said the decades of enmity between India and Pakistan should be resolved through negotiation and stressed the urgency of halting the damage to the environment caused by troop deployment on the Siachen Glacier.

“Ultimately it’s going to affect the River Indus adversely and we understand water is important and water management is very important,” he said.

Kashmir has been the cause of two wars between India and Pakistan and the nuclear-armed rivals fought over Siachen in 1987, though guns on the glacier have largely fallen silent since a peace process began in 2004.

http://dawn.com/2012/04/18/kayani-calls ... ith-india/

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 18 Apr 2012 23:08

The whole world is laughing.
How Pakistan makes US pay for war

Islamabad - taking advantage of American arrogance and ignorance in Afghanistan and Pakistan - took Washington for a patsy. One Pakistani ruling group after another spotted Washington's weaknesses - from terror cases gone awry, attacks mismanaged, supplies misdirected and money misspent - leveraged them, and made the US pay through the nose for its war-making desires. - Dilip Hiro

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Apr 2012 23:43

Kayani's statement should be taken seriously. It means the current military junta has a short time to live or expects so. In turn it means the next grouping is almost ready to take over and in the process some may fear to be halaaled. But also such statements - which costs dearly in Pakiland - means, there is an urgent need to pretend peace, while active preparations are going for exactly the opposite.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 19 Apr 2012 00:05

about Kiyani

what was that 'H&D cannot be sacrificed for prosperity' speech, some time ago

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Apr 2012 00:12

Early collapse of Pakistan is turning out to be real . The FDI (Fool da Indians)saga might have turned out to be (F..kl Da Inbreds) for aam Abdul. Kayani wants money to stay in Poaqland .He knows "paise ko Paisa kheenchta hai". RAPE may take the flight to make money in Mumbai and Kayani and his showcase Armie will be left to face the Quadris. Soon there will be race in abandoning the Poaqboat. No shouting of Islam Khaataare mei hai gonna stem the stempede by Poaqpides to get our of Hades. H& D going before destruction.

I foresee the guys with Carnations in ears descending upon Lahoradda and young Poaqs crying Abba Abba .

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Apr 2012 01:12

This whole FDI option may be nice if only to see if there is some exodus of money from an already impoverished Pakistan. If by the next cycle of violence, money starts leaving Pakistan, it could well be that the stream causes a little panic and the stream turns into a flood. Earlier many may have kept the money still in Pakistan despite the turbulent times giving Pakistan some more sustenance, allowing it to ride out the storm.

The Indian FDI option may make another bigger hole in Pakistan's economic ship, and accelerate its sinking. The FDI option may the little dhakka needed to push it over the edge.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Apr 2012 01:19

RajeshA wrote:This whole FDI option may be nice if only to see if there is some exodus of money from an already impoverished Pakistan. If by the next cycle of violence, money starts leaving Pakistan, it could well be that the stream causes a little panic and the stream turns into a flood. Earlier many may have kept the money still in Pakistan despite the turbulent times giving Pakistan some more sustenance, allowing it to ride out the storm.

The Indian FDI option may make another bigger hole in Pakistan's economic ship, and accelerate its sinking. The FDI option may the little dhakka needed to push it over the edge.

I don't know if folks recall my post identifying the factors in FSU collapse and their presence in TSP. One of them was that flight of capital from FSU to a friendly West was needed. If TSP capital flees to West it could be impounded or seized. So I had said there is aneed to allow teh TSP capital to flee to India as even Gulf is not safe for such amounts as they are under Western security blanket.
So to me this FDI business is a small step to allow the collapse.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 19 Apr 2012 01:24

He said the decades of enmity between India and Pakistan should be resolved through negotiation and stressed the urgency of halting the damage to the environment caused by troop deployment on the Siachen Glacier.

“Ultimately it’s going to affect the River Indus adversely and we understand water is important and water management is very important,” he said.

I thought its a given that this type of propagandu is reserved to be given out indirectly by Army Proxies in paki media , jihadi strategic analysts (Ahmed Querishi, Zahil Hamid et al) demagogues in duffer-e-pak, dwarfs in paki phoren service etc.

Now even Kiyani is directly parroting this propagandu ....
is he desperate ?
or is he that confident about western MSM and DDM not questioning his hollow (obvious to a layman even) assertions on "environmental impacts" of Siachen standoff ?

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 19 Apr 2012 01:27

Brihaspati wrote:But also such statements - which costs dearly in Pakiland - means, there is an urgent need to pretend peace, while active preparations are going for exactly the opposite.

This is the first thing that occured to me when I read that headline today. Let us not forget the days before Kargil, when Shri Vajpayee was showered with Love and peace by the Pakistanis. I will accept that there is a real intention of behaviorial change when the terrorist state hands over Hafiz Saeed and Dawood. There is a whole lot of other things they will have to do after that. But handing over these pigs will be a good start.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Apr 2012 01:41

ramana wrote:

I don't know if folks recall my post identifying the factors in FSU collapse and their presence in TSP. One of them was that flight of capital from FSU to a friendly West was needed. If TSP capital flees to West it could be impounded or seized. So I had said there is aneed to allow teh TSP capital to flee to India as even Gulf is not safe for such amounts as they are under Western security blanket.
So to me this FDI business is a small step to allow the collapse.

This is the time to make the war.
FO - Hina is asking for good relations at this time. Most likely it is before war.
If you compare the period in Europe between WWI and WWII we see that each state was declaring alliance in one month and after few month was declaring war.

We will start seeing similar state behavior soon in Asia.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Apr 2012 01:49

Carl wrote:The whole world is laughing.
How Pakistan makes US pay for war
Islamabad - taking advantage of American arrogance and ignorance in Afghanistan and Pakistan - took Washington for a patsy. One Pakistani ruling group after another spotted Washington's weaknesses - from terror cases gone awry, attacks mismanaged, supplies misdirected and money misspent - leveraged them, and made the US pay through the nose for its war-making desires. - Dilip Hiro

There are other very strategic reasons for this war by US on Pakistan border as Af Pak.
The presence of US troops from CENTCOM and also NATO makes sure that PLA troops dont come very overtly into Pakistani PA base and launch joint overt attack on India.
Presence of US troops and drone attack also keeps the Pakistan state on alert to keep its strategic 'assets' under close watch and secure. The interaction of the Jihadi section of the PA army and the outward professional elements of the PA will also be watched and they would keep things under control.

US provided assets to Pak over the last 40 years such as Heli, F-16, and maybe even some toxic chemical weapons will also be under close proximity of the US command and they could control it in the event of deployment.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Apr 2012 01:52

JJ Singh has also made conciliatry remark regarding China, so whats going on? Are they trying take Unxle out of Asia? Without Indian card , Poaqs cant be on leash and JJ Might be following PVNR's asessment. Kayani and his troop Jaananis have lost morale becuase China has said No and drawn the line in snow for Poaqs.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Apr 2012 02:12

They should call the A5 the "Persuader" as peace is breaking out all over TSP and PRC!

TSP is making soothing noises after PRC reneged on any follow thru for a mis-adventure. The loss of ammo stockpile in the avalanche and subsequent replenishment puts paid to their schemes.
Now Kiyani is singing kumbaya songs.