Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions

[SaiK]

what is that facing down-wards off the inlet ?

kudos to french for the blended wings and inlet shapes.

Team AMCA, may please take notes.

I still think France can do the retractable fuel probes. they can modify the front to accomodate for future versions.

[Austin]

Inaction Hovers Over Indian MMRCA Program

[SaiK]

I think this should be the last big ticket purchase ever we should make..

I hope our own industries get setup with this one.. and get back to our workshops for our own programs.

We should tie for parts rather the whole a/c.. The forces should acknowledge this fact, that having LCA, MCA, pakda and home grown machines are important... to avoid such things in the future.

I hope we see some light soon.

[Gilles]

Being ITAR free has little impact, the fact is UMS has a major design center in the US and so does Thales. Critical tech related to both SPECTRA and other EU made electronics have all been developed in the US. They only are manufactured in the EU in order to make them ITAR free, the knowledge itself comes from US. ITAR is easy to avoid.

A lot of the technology for Thales and other EADS has roots in the US, manufacturing is shifted elsewhere to avoid ITAR. Besides Dassault has already obtained clearances from Unkil in order to provide TOT on the Rafale.

I think that place of manufacture is irrelevant. Bell Helicopters has a factory in Canada which is very much subject to ITAR. The Stryker armoured vehicle which is also built in Canada and is subject to ITAR. Both factories were involved in several lawsuits with employees over application of ITAR rules in Canada and had to settle out of court. ITAR has very long arms.......

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/n ... 2723ac4919

[chiragAS]

Jet deal hits air pocket
Sources say the Rafale aircraft was $5 million (Rs 250 crore) cheaper than the Typhoon. Losing finalists like the European Consortium found fault with the formula even as European diplomats made fresh proposals to lower the rates of the Typhoon. MoD, however, signalled that the door was shut as it began CNC with Dassault in February. Reddy's letter to Antony has, however, added a twist to the tale.

[/quote]

The india today author says $ 5 million = Rs 250 crore
my math says $ 5 million = Rs 25 crore
Thats not a far away figure to reach for euro consortium

[nachiket]

^^I think that's 5 mil per aircraft.

[Austin]

The india today author says $ 5 million = Rs 250 crore
my math says $ 5 million = Rs 25 crore
Thats not a far away figure to reach for euro consortium

Probably the extra ZERO is a editing/typo issue.

At $5 million less , counting Life Cycle Cost compared to Eurofighter , Its a good deal , Great Bang for the Buck.

[chiragAS]

The india today author says $ 5 million = Rs 250 crore
my math says $ 5 million = Rs 25 crore
Thats not a far away figure to reach for euro consortium

Probably the extra ZERO is a editing/typo issue.

At $5 million less , counting Life Cycle Cost compared to Eurofighter , Its a good deal , Great Bang for the Buck.

^^^
+1
I Agree...
I just hope they close this deal soon. before more offers make our netas confused and DDMs start thier circus.

[Singha]

this is not going to be the last big ticket purchase we make. a sample list.

1. PAKFA !
2. a huge munitions deal for Rafale and later Pakfa
3. a ton of medium to heavy helicopters as HAL hasnt even started yet (its a 15 yr run these days from a design drawing to FOC)
4. medium naval ASW helis to replace and supplement the Sea kings until retirement+
5. P17A
6. P75I
7. lease of 2nd Akula
8. more C-130
9. more C-17
10. more IL-76-NG
11. more P8I
12. Global Hawk naval model
13. periodic bulk purchases of shells at 400% markup
14. light tanks for the mountain corps
15. M777 ULH
16. gas turbine and diesel engines for our navy ships
17. more supply ship and tankers for navy
18. more Smerch
19. javelin ATGM to replace the Milan2T (this deal alone is $1b+)

providing for a modern multi spectrum armed forces at the scaling levels we need (vs china-pak combo) is a massively costly affair.

EU can showboat around with 5 of each item and call themselves "players" at the top table...while Khan does the heavy lifting

for us its a question of losing territory and getting slapped around - a far more serious issue. and nobody will come overtly to our aid.

[Kersi D]

this is not going to be the last big ticket purchase we make. a sample list.

1. PAKFA !
2. a huge munitions deal for Rafale and later Pakfa
3. a ton of medium to heavy helicopters as HAL hasnt even started yet (its a 15 yr run these days from a design drawing to FOC)
4. medium naval ASW helis to replace and supplement the Sea kings until retirement+
5. P17A
6. P75I
7. lease of 2nd Akula
8. more C-130
9. more C-17
10. more IL-76-NG
11. more P8I
12. Global Hawk naval model
13. periodic bulk purchases of shells at 400% markup
14. light tanks for the mountain corps
15. M777 ULH
16. gas turbine and diesel engines for our navy ships
17. more supply ship and tankers for navy
18. more Smerch
19. javelin ATGM to replace the Milan2T (this deal alone is $1b+)

providing for a modern multi spectrum armed forces at the scaling levels we need (vs china-pak combo) is a massively costly affair.

EU can showboat around with 5 of each item and call themselves "players" at the top table...while Khan does the heavy lifting

for us its a question of losing territory and getting slapped around - a far more serious issue. and nobody will come overtly to our aid.

A lot of things will be required

Lok Sabha elections in 2014. A lot of funds will be required. Where will our poor politicians get money to run for the elections ? And what about our poor babus ? Cant' leave them to starve, can we ?

[aditya.agd]

<del>

[Kartik]

Cross post from Keypubs. Posted by Eagle1 (Arthuro on BRF)

Cosmos 2307, April 13, page 14:

Integration of Meteor has started:

The flight test campaign began last fall. Flights are conducted by Rafale C101, B301 and M02. Wind tunnel testing was completed in February at Onera facilities. Meanwhile, the software development on Rafale has also started. With a field of fire doubled to Mica, the software for the Meteor will include new "aid to fire" for long-range engagements. The integration should be continued until 2016. Commissioning is still scheduled for 2018 but could be advanced in 2016 at the request of an export customer.

[Jaybhatt]

The Impact of the French Elections on the Rafale Deal

Sarkozy's impending departure has been welcomed in many sections of French society.

I foresee an impact on the Rafale negotiations with India, if we have a new President in the Elysée Place. Sarko's close links with large business groups was well known - in the case of Dassault, this was important. For example, the newspaper LE FIGARO, owned by the Dassault group, has been a steadfast supporter of Sarko.

If François Holland becomes the President, which is more than likely, I feel that the Dassault company may become more pragmatic and reasonable in their business negotiations with India. The new administration in Paris will certainly be less likely to pander to the wishes and whims of Dassault. Hard-ball stances with Indians may not be viable any longer for the company.

[Yogi_G]

The Impact of the French Elections on the Rafale Deal

Sarkozy's impending departure has been welcomed in many sections of French society.

I foresee an impact on the Rafale negotiations with India, if we have a new President in the Elysée Place. Sarko's close links with large business groups was well known - in the case of Dassault, this was important. For example, the newspaper LE FIGARO, owned by the Dassault group, has been a steadfast supporter of Sarko.

If François Holland becomes the President, which is more than likely, I feel that the Dassault company may become more pragmatic and reasonable in their business negotiations with India. The new administration in Paris will certainly be less likely to pander to the wishes and whims of Dassault. Hard-ball stances with Indians may not be viable any longer for the company.

Another way to look at it is the if the other guy gets selected, the incoming new govt will try to dig deep into the deal and expose any skeletons in the cupboard. If the guy is truly patriotic and puts national interests in perspective then there is a chance this might not happen.

[Vasu]

No matter who enters office in France, the fact won't change that India singlehandedly turned the fortunes of Rafale around in the global markets (PS: Or so the hope goes). Never mind the offsets, the deal will still energize their industry, bring money into France and keep the factories humming, and their scientists/technicians deeply involved with India over the next many years.

I hope the French won't be like Indian state governments where there is no concept of the greater good. So if Hollande-Sarky becomes a JJ-MK or SP-BSP or Crazy Didi-Left, then as with any big defense deal, I am sure there will be many issues that can be flared up to scuttle it.

[Jaybhatt]

The Fallout of the (Likely) New French Regime on the Rafale negotiations

Yogi_G and Vasu : thank you for your observations. I read (and hear) what you are saying.

However, with respect, neither of you has touched the issue I had brought up. Let me re-state and elaborate what I
had posited.

(A) Dassault, for many years, had been accused of adopting unreasonable commercial postures in their overseas negotiations (Brazil, UAE etc.) because the company was emboldened by its close proximity to Sarkozy and the UMP party. Because of this commercial hardball stance, Dassault lost out in its overseas forays, despite the proven technological superiority of the Rafale. This was short-term capitalist greed at its worst. And highly counter-productive.

(B) If the Hollande administration comes to power, Dassault will not have a privileged position with the new French Government. Consequently, they will not adopt hard commercial stances with India. This will clearly be to our advantage, though we, too, should not try to squeeze them beyond the point of no return.

[Rakesh]

Rafale ill-treated by Typhoon?

http://rafalenews.blogspot.ca/2012/04/r ... mment-form

[SaiK]

what is more ill-treating than winning the contract, and finds that the buyer has process loopholes, and a big investigation has to happen. process correction is fundamental to any surviving democracy. this is hurting us more than rafale.

[SaiK]

www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=18467 The defence ministry is aware of the alarming situation but the only reaction it could offer was “even if the contracts are signed today, it cannot accelerate the process of aircraft induction.”

UP^

[kmc_chacko]

Why not MoD order for multiple fighters cancelling upgradation of older fighters, since force level is shrinking i consider it is better to order both fighters (L1 & L2) simultaneously, as we cann't hold against both enemies with this force level and by ordering both fighters we will get best technologies of West.

i.e., 126 EF's can replace older Migs & Mirages whereas 180 Rafaels can make up for depleting force level or replace Mig-27s & Jaguars and as present status if IAF inducts Tejas and start replacing older Mig-21s by another 10-12 years i.e., by 2025 we can have atleast 32 sq of front line fighters i.e., Su-30 - 15 sq, EF - 7 sq, Rafael - 10 sq & induction of PAKFA by 2020 will not only make 45+ sq but also a strong force that even US will think twice before attack.

addition to this R&D will get time to get Tejas matured & AMCA TD will be rolled out

[koti]

126 EF's can replace older Migs & Mirages whereas 180 Rafaels can make up for depleting force level or replace Mig-27s & Jaguars and as present status if IAF inducts Tejas and start replacing older Mig-21s by another 10-12 years i.e., by 2025 we can have atleast 32 sq of front line fighters i.e., Su-30 - 15 sq, EF - 7 sq, Rafael - 10 sq & induction of PAKFA by 2020 will not only make 45+ sq but also a strong force that even US will think twice before attack.

addition to this R&D will get time to get Tejas matured & AMCA TD will be rolled out

Actually this directly means kiss LCA goodbye.
And so will be the case for the AMCA.
We will be having a top heavy 4th gen airforce by 2020 when the deliveries will complete with little funding left for 5th gen absorbtion or current aircraft upgrades.
And, come time for upgrades, we will find ourself knocking doors at both EF and Rafa consortia for our customized upgrades.

[nits]

Where is this deal today... no news\updates from long... Is it still on - progressing ?

[Rakesh]

Rafale ill-treated by Typhoon?

http://rafalenews.blogspot.ca/2012/04/r ... mment-form

Typhoon, Rafale: Air & Cosmos answers to Eurofighter
http://rafalenews.blogspot.ca/2012/05/t ... ghter.html

[Rakesh]

Rafale Solo Display

[srai]

Rafale ill-treated by Typhoon?

http://rafalenews.blogspot.ca/2012/04/r ... mment-form

Typhoon, Rafale: Air & Cosmos answers to Eurofighter
http://rafalenews.blogspot.ca/2012/05/t ... ghter.html

[SaiK]

^

However, French pilots admits that Captor is a better air-to-air radar (than the RBE-2 PESA), but they still question the claimed superiority of Typhoon

Thanks for the AESA requirement.. things could be bogged down by our press club and babooze for this reason alone.

[Kartik]

Cross-posting from Keypubs forum. This article appeared in a Swiss newspaper and highlights the issues with the Gripen NG demo program. Looks like just modifying a Gripen D into a Gripen NG is not possible, since it requires a new inlet, and an extension of 37 cm to the nose to accommodate the new ES-05A Raven swashplate radar. This program is by no means anywhere near being ready. It also clearly validates the IAF's choice of the Rafale and the Typhoon as the finalists with the Rafale being the preferred choice.

link

COMBAT AIRCRAFT - Of the 98 improvements required by Switzerland, only 7 have been installed on the prototype of the future Gripen tested last week. The plane could not be delivered until 2023 and its weaknesses will remain as they are challenging the procedures to protect airspace.

The mission of Wednesday, August 13, 2008, however, promised to be simple. A plane flies north towards the Alps of Ticino and is the intercept. To do this, the evaluation team placed the Gripen D 39-822 registered on alert on the military base of Zion. The tarmac is dry, it's beautiful weather. At the controls of the fighter, the Swiss test pilot Peter Merz, aka "Pablo" behind him, the Saab Gripen manufacturer, to ensure that everything goes smoothly. After taking off as planned at 15 h 32, the plane goes into Swedish supersonic speed to stabilize at Mach 1.42. But suddenly, in the middle of his approach: "Bingo Fuel"! The LED Alarm fuel placed on the left of the cockpit shows the need to abort the mission and return to base.

Gripen arrived barely in contact with the F/A-18 to intercept, but was unable to intervene and had to land in Emmen (LU). Ground, the head of the Swiss Air Force Markus Gygax is stunned: excluded to buy such a flying pan. In comparison, the French Rafale, tested under the same conditions two months later, has made the interception, returned to Zion, and has been able to achieve another successful missions. On the twenty-six test flights at the time by the Gripen, the plane landed with four times the reserves of fuel below the minimum security.

Fortunately, the Defence Minister Ueli Maurer swears he will not buy the Gripen then but an improved version: Gripen E / F. Its engine is 33% more powerful, it has a completely redesigned car electronics, can carry more weapons and above all ... 46% more fuel. For Federal Councillor, there is no problem: it's a bit "like one of tuning a car," he likes to repeat.

Tests for the gallery Unfortunately, all is not so simple. "Sunday Morning" has obtained a list of 98 improvements. She was provided by a whistleblower, federal employees, and we have it validated by three reliable sources. Contacted the Department of Defense did not wish to share its position on that list confidential.

At this stage, as shown in our graphic, only six of these upgrades have been tested in flight (green). The rest is either in the prototype stage (orange), or on planes (red). The Gripen NG Demonstrator - the plane is supposed to prove the feasibility of future product enhancements - is certainly equipped with the new General Electric F414G engine, but it lacks the new wings. Redesigned the computer, a few inches thicker, they will accommodate a few percent of additional fuel, in addition to three large drop tanks of 450 gallons (1700 liters). During the flight tests conducted May 2 to 4 in Linköping, Sweden, the Swiss delegation would just wanted to test at least those famous tanks. Because they are essential to achieve sufficient autonomy to the surveillance of an area, a task that the military assumes for example during the Davos Forum. But ultimately, "people Saab refused," says one source. With three external tanks, the aircraft would have been too constrained. "It was not necessary to have tanks of 450 gallons for missions," retorted the spokesman Armasuisse Kaj-Gunnar Sievert.

Despite this weight off, the pilot test Armasuisse Bernhard Berset failed to exceed Mach 1.34, according to our informant. It must be said that the reactor, which should enable the aircraft to reach Mach 2.0, could be pushed only three-quarters of its ability, the air inlets of the Gripen NG has not yet been enlarged. The constraints that Swiss pilots were able to subject the aircraft were limited on many other points. And new AMRAAM and IRST installed on the aircraft were really only jokes. The real missiles themselves are far from being operational.

"It's like trying a new car but the mechanic told you that you do not have the right to exceed 80 km / h, or take turns too tight ... and as for the new radio with GPS you need iron in six years, "laments one of our sources. But mainly in Linköping was not to test the plane. Rather it was to do well in the media: some tests that were to be conducted during the fourth flight has even been sacrificed for a new photo shoot. Images taken during the previous flight, blowing our informant, were not beautiful enough.

Overwhelming evidence of Gripen NG does not the new radar, which would increase from 200 kilos in front of the camera and would take a nosedive. "To welcome him, it will lengthen the future Gripen E / F of 37 centimeters," says Björn Danielsson, Swedish former military pilot, now a consultant at Saab. Clearly, we must build a new plane. So, the exercise has nothing to do with tuning announced by Maurer. "Rather than modifying old Gripen C / D, it is much more rational to build any new devices," and admitted Jürg Weber, head of the replacement project of Tigers (TTE) in Armasuisse. It was Feb. 21, before the Subcommittee of the security policy to investigate the subject. Fifteen managers of the Department of Defence (DDPS) will have already cast. The minutes of these hearings have been circulating within the administration and "Sunday Morning" has been able to consult.

They highlight the inaccuracies of the Defence Minister, since the publication of our paper by two confidential reports of the Air Force on February 12, which revealed the poor performance of the Gripen, even with 98 upgrades. At a press conference February 14, Ueli Maurer, for example, had claimed that these documents were "completely dated." Since then, several officials have countered this statement to ensure before the House Subcommittee that "these reports remain the only valid". And that the qualities of the future Gripen are still to be demonstrated. "We find nothing in these reports that will support the decision," for example, stated at the hearing of April 3, Gerald Levrat, chief engineer of the evaluation team operational Air Force. Air Force who, as we know, have recommended the Rafale, the Eurofighter with an alternative. Hearings before the Subcommittee have established that the planning staff of the army, as the project manager at TTE Armasuisse, also proposed the Rafale and the Eurofighter. In fact, this is obviously after intense discussions with his subordinates that Jürg Weber finally "decided to accept the Gripen," in his own words. To claim, as did Ueli Maurer, the entire army is united behind this third choice is simply not accurate.

Worse than the F/A-18 performance of the Gripen, "including in the new website E / F" will remain in effect very "average", according to statements by Gerald Levrat to parliamentarians: "Like a knife that does not cut well. You can cut a string, but if it's harder, we'll make it harder. "In his fourth appearance before the Subcommittee, April 24, 2012, the project manager TTE Jürg Weber, meanwhile, has eventually accepted that the weaknesses of the Gripen would require "perhaps a change in doctrine of engagement".

When, today, an F/A-18 taking off from Payerne and flies to Davos at full power, it still has enough fuel to intervene on the spot. "With the Gripen, it can get tight, admitted Jürg Weber [...] And it may be necessary to patrol continuously over Davos to be able to intervene." But, he says, we'll certainly find solutions in order to fulfill reasonable that air policing mission, "even though it will not as effectively as with other aircraft or the F/A-18."

In addition to significant risks of performance below the F/A-18 - fifteen years old - the Gripen E / F has a very important industrial hazard. The chief engineer Gerald Levrat, thirty years of experience in the testing of aircraft equipment, explained so clear: "In general, the seller guarantees that he will deliver the best possible equipment. But there is always a gap between what we wanted and what we receive. "

On the Gripen E / F, he confirmed, 70% of components are new. During development, problems can arise. Requirements may have been misunderstood, may be a bug accidentally introduced by a programmer, the manufacturer may refuse certain modifications to avoid cost overruns.

"Saab has offered a fixed price" say in chorus DDPS officials, asserting that the financial risk does not exist. Unfortunately, this guarantee is not comprehensive insurance. For the record, the military transport plane A400M European had also been sold at a fixed rate. But quickly, developmental problems appeared. After the renegotiation of contracts, the additional cost has now reached 38% and delayed the original schedule is four years.

Delays, precisely, are virtually assured with the Gripen. According to current planning, which has just been postponed for two years, twenty-two jets scheduled for delivery starting in 2018. But at the rate things are going, Saab may delay the delivery of the first Gripen E / F "in line with what was asked, in 2020 or 2023," said Gerald Levrat before the House Subcommittee.

Start from scratch According Fallscheer Frieder, system support to Air Force Staff planning, if the undertakings were not to be required, "the whole process of selecting a fighter could start from scratch" he let go before the subcommittee.

But we certainly do not happen here. Of the eight members of the Subcommittee, there is no more than Hans Fehr - a friend of Ueli Maurer - who is still convinced by the choice of the Gripen. After the surrender of their report in late June, the other proposing a new offer should be requested at the three airframe manufacturers, for a fixed amount. Leaves to fall below the number of twenty-two aircraft. The assessment should then take into account the operational efficiency of all three types of aircraft. The difference is in effect between such devices must be significantly less than Rafale or Eurofighter to ensure the same job with the Gripen E / F. About fifteen for twenty-two, according to calculations made by the army in 2009. In air policing mission, for example, the first two devices are able to stay 180 minutes in flight, against 120 minutes for the future Gripen. Provided that the Swedes manage to keep their promises.

[nachiket]

^^Thanks Kartik. So the NG is just the paper plane that folks here were talking about. The part about the engine inlet enlargement though, without which the F414 can provide only 3/4 of the design performance) is worrisome. We are likely to encounter the same problem with the LCA Mk2. Thankfully, unlike Saab, our guys did not try to go for unobtanium with a 46% fuel capacity increase plus substantial payload increase (Saab was marketing the NG to be able to carry 7200kg of ordnance - more than even the Typhoon during the MRCA tamasha). The IAF no doubt saw right through the big promises.

[Cain Marko]

^^ and to top it all it would be an imminent threat to the Tejas as well. Seems it had little going for it other than excellent marketing. But then again, there seems to be a lot of behind the scenes action in the Swiss purchase.

[Jaybhatt]

^^Thanks Kartik. So the NG is just the paper plane that folks here were talking about. The part about the engine inlet enlargement though, without which the F414 can provide only 3/4 of the design performance) is worrisome. We are likely to encounter the same problem with the LCA Mk2. Thankfully, unlike Saab, our guys did not try to go for unobtanium with a 46% fuel capacity increase plus substantial payload increase (Saab was marketing the NG to be able to carry 7200kg of ordnance - more than even the Typhoon during the MRCA tamasha). The IAF no doubt saw right through the big promises.

I had written in December 2011 that the Gripen contract in Switzerland was viewed very unfavourably by the Swiss Air Force as well as the press. The choice of the Gripen was labelled as illogical by many commentators.

Here is a clip of a telecast on Swiss TV aired on the 27th November 2011 just before the decision of the Swiss Federal Government in favour of the Gripen. I don't remember if it was posted here earlier. In this programme, the former Chief of the Swiss Air Force, General Fernand Carrel, explains why he prefers the Rafale. His statement is categorical and unambiguous. The telecast is in French but most Indians, having been exposed to 4 - 5 languages from childhood, are good linguists and should be able to understand what the General is saying. If there are enough requests, I will be happy to provide the gist of what the General said.

http://www.rts.ch/g/F9e4

[Cybaru]

provide gist please!

[Singha]

the swedish are clearly punching at somewhat above their weight category with gripenNG. problems are sure to come in every new project. but only the likes of khan, france, russia seem to have the political capital and funding to throw people and money into the problems and make it work somehow.

[Jaybhatt]

provide gist please!

provide gist please!

http://www.rts.ch/g/F9e4

(Telecast on the 27th November 2011)

For Cybaru and other BR friends who are interested.

This is the gist of the interview with Lt. Gen. Fernand Carrel, the Commander in Chief of the Swiss Air Force from March 1992 to December 1999.

The segment with the General starts at 10.00 mins.

General Carrel : "We are now in my office and I will show you my personal museum, full of souvenirs, photographs and other memorabilia. This is my favourite aircraft, the Mirage 3"

Interviewer : "The General does not hide his admiration for Dassault planes and the French Air Force. He also loves the Rafale".

General Carrel : "The role of the military in this matter is now over. Their job was to test the contending planes. Now, the decision is in the hands of the politicians."

Interviewer : "Which plane will win the fight ?"

General Carrel : "On a strictly operational level, the aircraft that came out on top during the evaluations was the Rafale. It was followed by the EF and the Gripen. The pilots love the Rafale, but they will certainly not be the ones to decide. There are political and economic factors that will play a role"

Interviewer : "Each contending country has also offered full off-sets, to the extent of SF 5 billion"

General Carrel : "Off-sets are either direct in the form of investment in Swiss industry, through research or through purchase of components used in the aircraft. Indirect off-sets can take the form of buying any other product from Switzerland, including even chocolates"

The interview with the General ends at 11.50 mins. approximately.

[member_20067]

Rupee is on a free fall again.. the impact on defense acquisitions including this deal would be interesting to see

[Jaybhatt]

IAF Chief Flies the Rafale during his current Visit to France

Air Chief Browne flew the Rafale at the St. Dizier base of the Armee de l'Air.

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensen ... Facilities

Reportedly, the flight went off well.

[SaiK]

Rupee is on a free fall again.. the impact on defense acquisitions including this deal would be interesting to see

babooze will prolong order till value becomes 45 and perhaps redo tender.

Probability: 70%
Risk for IAF: 100%
Risk for babooze: 0%

[VishalJ]

June 1st & 2nd 2012 | Orland, Norway: This year's Armée de l'Air's entry in the annual NATO Tiger Meet | Freshly-Painted Rafale C 118-EF

[SaiK]

I see from the third pic from top, rafale climbing at near 15* angle, where the gap between the leading edge slat and the external fuel tank is very thin. will that cause more drag or less?

[karan_mc]

France hopes to close MMRCA deal by year end

[Indranil]

I see from the third pic from top, rafale climbing at near 15* angle, where the gap between the leading edge slat and the external fuel tank is very thin. will that cause more drag or less?

That is sufficient gap Saik saab.

What drag are you speaking of?