Indian Autos Thread

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Apr 2012 13:05

vina wrote:Hmm. Economic Times says that Tata Motors & M&M posted strong sales.
Nano sales grew by 20% to 10475 units , despite it being petrol only.

Now Alto and others will need to start shivering in their dhotis, if newer models with a boot that can open, more plush interiors etc start coming out kaching-kaching from Tata. If the diesel engine version comes out, that will deliver a killer blow. Suzuki has not been able to engineer a diesel engine until now!

And they will regret killing the 800 so early, I feel once TATA Nano maintains above 15K level, suddenly the Maruti Suzuki bosses will begin to revive 800 suddenly.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Apr 2012 15:36

Marten, TATA have come a long way, rather than the 1.3MJD, I think they will try and improve on the one they have in ACE/ Magic. It is taking time, but Indian Engineered products are getting better.

Marten, Any idea why T-bhp has not yet put up the March 2012 sales yet, there poster GTO is generally very good at it.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 02 Apr 2012 21:34

Aditya_V wrote:
vina wrote:Hmm. Economic Times says that Tata Motors & M&M posted strong sales.
Nano sales grew by 20% to 10475 units , despite it being petrol only.

Now Alto and others will need to start shivering in their dhotis, if newer models with a boot that can open, more plush interiors etc start coming out kaching-kaching from Tata. If the diesel engine version comes out, that will deliver a killer blow. Suzuki has not been able to engineer a diesel engine until now!
And they will regret killing the 800 so early, I feel once TATA Nano maintains above 15K level, suddenly the Maruti Suzuki bosses will begin to revive 800 suddenly.

Aditya ji, I dont think they ever fit the K-series engine into the 800, so the engine in the 800 is tech from way long back. I think people are more sensitive into the kind of engines their rath has and this IMHO (given equally cheap alternatives with k series type efficiency) will be a dampener for any re-introduction of 800 not to mention its 80's look.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 03 Apr 2012 21:14

Aditya_V wrote:Marten, TATA have come a long way, rather than the 1.3MJD, I think they will try and improve on the one they have in ACE/ Magic. It is taking time, but Indian Engineered products are getting better.

Marten, Any idea why T-bhp has not yet put up the March 2012 sales yet, there poster GTO is generally very good at it.

I guess still the sales figures of Hyundai etc. are not out yet with this being year end.

ACE/Magic uses a two cylinder version of the Indica 475DI engine whilst the rumoured nano diesel mill is a CRDI one perhaps a derivative of their CR4 range. After teething troubles with the DiCOR, Tatas seems to have got their common rails right with the improved version CR4 doing pretty good. CR4 mill on Indica eV2, Indigo eCS and the new Sumo Gold seems pretty smooth (no turbo lag, low NVH, good response and mileage). The cab drivers who use it predominantly love it but complain that the cost of maintenance has gone up and can be repaired only by authorized service centers. Question is whether these CRDI can withstand the abuse that their 475DI engine typically can.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Apr 2012 15:30

Yogi G-> 800 has 80's look but remember the reason the 800, Wagon R, Alto etc were developed in the Japanese market is there is a separate category of cars in Japan below 666CC engine. I am sure Suzuki will be selling an updated design in Japan with less than 666 cc engine. Such a car can be easily customized for Indian requirements will plastics thrown in to match Nano pricing, but I doubt Maruti can match a Nano Diesel that quickly as the smallest Diesel they can think of buying is the one in BEAT, if GM is willing to sell them. Don't think FIAT have 800-900 CC Diesel engine available.

GM took the 1256 CC Diesel Jointly Developed with FIAT and took a Cylinder off and sold it in the Beat, I don't think Suzuki has the tech in Diesel engines.

So if TATA bring a Diesel NANO they would be India's No.1 Manufacturer in terms of numbers and it is a Big if because Diesel Engines nobody really has Developed small displacement Diesel engine with enough power and still be light enough. Currently, 3 wheelers and Ace, Magic run on 12 HP and 16HP engines which may not be good enough for passenger cars. Enfield 400CC 6.5 BHP bullet was a disaster because of its poor Power to Weight ratio. I believe it was the world's only Diesel 2 Wheeler ever sold.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 04 Apr 2012 15:48

^^
NVH would be a major issue as well. They'd have to insulate the vehicle well and bring external noise down as well. No one is going to touch the diesel nano if it sounds like Ace or Magic.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Apr 2012 01:33

Daimler to Debut India-Made Trucks by September http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 01270.html

ORAGADAM, India – Daimler AG DAI.XE -1.00%will start selling trucks from a €700 million factory in India by September, with plans to eventually make as many as 70,000 trucks a year as it attempts to get a bigger foothold in this growing market for commercial vehicles.The plant, spread over 400 acres in Oragadam near the southern port city of Chennai, will start with a capacity of 36,000 vehicles a year and employ 1,400 workers, Daimler Chairman Dieter Zetsche said. The factory is one of only three Daimler plants worldwide where trucks as well as their engines and transmissions will be produced at the same location. Local sales of trucks and buses in India rose 18% in the financial year that ended on March 31 to 809,532 vehicles, even as most other segments witnessed weak demand due to expensive loans and higher fuel costs. "India's truck market is one of the largest and fastest-growing in the world," Mr. Zetsche said. "Now at number three, it will climb to number two worldwide by the end of this decade. So in the long run, you could say, 'if you don't make it here, you won't make it at all'… a strong position in the global truck market requires a strong position in India." Daimler plans to have about 70 retail outlets in 12 states across India by the end of 2012 to sell the trucks. This will be expanded to more than 100 locations by 2014. Daimler has been assembling its Mercedes-Benz Actros brand of heavy-duty trucks as well as buses at a factory near the western city of Pune since November 2007. The plant is owned by Daimler's passenger vehicle unit, Mercedes-Benz India Pvt. Ltd., which also assembles C-Class, E-Class and S-Class luxury sedans.
Marc Llistosella, managing director and chief executive of Daimler India Commercial Vehicles Pvt. Ltd., said the company is planning to shift the assembly of the Actros trucks to the Oragadam factory.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Apr 2012 21:19

This will be seen very carefully by the US truck makers in detroit. They will see this new world class output of trucks in India as a great competitor since they will never be able to match in costs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Apr 2012 06:41

AMW (backed by Essar group) is another co which has been able to mix and match global suppliers and is producing good looking trucks in India.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 20 Apr 2012 10:32

Acharya wrote:This will be seen very carefully by the US truck makers in detroit. They will see this new world class output of trucks in India as a great competitor since they will never be able to match in costs.

Dunno about that. Trucks in Indian context are very different from trucks in the US context. In India, a truck is a vehicle that looks like this:

In the US, a truck is a vehicle that looks like this:

They're two completely different classes of vehicles.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 20 Apr 2012 15:19

The latter is a pick-up truck which eventually came to be called as truck? Incidentally the larger ones are also called trucks in US.

What I never was able to understand in India was the difference between a lorry and a truck.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 20 Apr 2012 15:30

Lorry is Queen's english. Truck is American.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 20 Apr 2012 18:18

Yogi_G wrote:The latter is a pick-up truck which eventually came to be called as truck? Incidentally the larger ones are also called trucks in US.

In my neck of the woods, the bigger trucks are called "semis" i.e. short for semi-trailer truck or sometimes "tractor-trailers"

They do call smaller vehicles as trucks, but they'd be more like "U-Haul Truck", "Moving Truck" etc.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 20 Apr 2012 23:52

ArmenT wrote:
Yogi_G wrote:The latter is a pick-up truck which eventually came to be called as truck? Incidentally the larger ones are also called trucks in US.
They do call smaller vehicles as trucks, but they'd be more like "U-Haul Truck", "Moving Truck" etc.

Some of them have kitchen, shower and space for bed. Still truck quality in india have improved pretty good in last few years.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 21 Apr 2012 20:00

Visited Maruti Showroom today to check out "Ertiga". Beautiful SUV. Going by the interest in the vehicle by public, It is going to be a star performer for MUL and would give Innova a run for the money. The vehicle is going to have a long waiting period.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Apr 2012 08:23

Innova needed a good kick in the pants. for 5 yrs now I have seen no change for the better in this vehicle, its just a outdated platform being used like a cash cow for lack of anything better and because the Tata offering is costlier.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Apr 2012 09:36

ArmenT wrote:
Acharya wrote:This will be seen very carefully by the US truck makers in detroit. They will see this new world class output of trucks in India as a great competitor since they will never be able to match in costs.
Dunno about that. Trucks in Indian context are very different from trucks in the US context. In India, a truck is a vehicle that looks like this:

They're two completely different classes of vehicles.

Looks like you live in the mid west, where it is called semis. Navistar. plant

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 Apr 2012 15:31

Acharya wrote: Looks like you live in the mid west, where it is called semis. Navistar. plant

Actually I live on the west coast. Funny you should mention Navistar though. I looked up their website and guess what? They have a joint venture to manufacture trucks in India with Mahindra!
http://www.mahindranavistar.com/

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Apr 2012 21:14

Marten wrote: Aditya_V: Are you following the March sales thread there?

Yup saw the Thread there, some surprises there, FORD, GM not doing so well. NISSAN doing well, Honda shipping 6000 brios.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Apr 2012 05:28

ArmenT wrote:
Actually I live on the west coast. Funny you should mention Navistar though. I looked up their website and guess what? They have a joint venture to manufacture trucks in India with Mahindra!
http://www.mahindranavistar.com/

I saw the navistar in the Indian roads few mths back. Very impressive and I IDed it that it was nav.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 23 Apr 2012 11:52

VikasRaina wrote:Visited Maruti Showroom today to check out "Ertiga". Beautiful SUV. Going by the interest in the vehicle by public, It is going to be a star performer for MUL and would give Innova a run for the money. The vehicle is going to have a long waiting period.

Hmm.. I had this vehicle on my radar. So looks like, better to wait for some time and then plan on it.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 23 Apr 2012 13:31

VikasRaina wrote:Visited Maruti Showroom today to check out "Ertiga". Beautiful SUV. Going by the interest in the vehicle by public, It is going to be a star performer for MUL and would give Innova a run for the money. The vehicle is going to have a long waiting period.

No way can the ertiga cruise on highways, it will be a great city commuting vehicle. I know you dint imply that its in the same class as the innova but people looking for people transports that can fly on the highways will not be too keen on the ertiga.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Apr 2012 13:37

define cruise. the innova with passengers manages upto around 100kmph which is the max one can drive safely on nhai roads. taxiwallahs and aggressive drivers push it to 120, where it gets distinctly buzzy and lacks t:w ratio.

the ertiga should be able to a consistent 100...any 90hp car with 1.2-1.3 engine can manage that?

its the ideal size, not a potato sack like the Innova and bigger than the Jazz .... plus with diesel option, it will sell strongly.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 23 Apr 2012 13:45

Singha wrote:define cruise. the innova with passengers manages upto around 100kmph which is the max one can drive safely on nhai roads. taxiwallahs and aggressive drivers push it to 120, where it gets distinctly buzzy and lacks t:w ratio.

the ertiga should be able to a consistent 100...any 90hp car with 1.2-1.3 engine can manage that?

its the ideal size, not a potato sack like the Innova and bigger than the Jazz .... plus with diesel option, it will sell strongly.

The innova with a full load can stay at 100 comfortable on NHAI, but the ertiga with a full load will definitely struggle to maintain that speed. Its definitely not designed for the highways but more of a city commuter, IMHO. But its a beauty in its quite lonely class.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 28 Apr 2012 10:56

Ertiga seems to be a class/segment of its own. The way I see it as a station wagon with an option to seat 2 more on a need basis. For that load, the p/w or T/w ratio for Ertiga is good enough considering that the new Swift platform uses very lighter material while the same engine with VGT does it work on the heavier SX4D , Manza and Linea. Having driven a Manza and SX4d (which is better tuned than the other), it should be able to do 120 NHAI with 5 people and 100.

Would also think that since the new Swift platform's Chasis for Europe is NCAP 5* compliant, Ertiga would be safer than Innova whose safety record is suspect. My friend's new Swift met with a major accident, rammed head on by a lorry at 70Kmph and both escaped with minor injuries. The car took the hit and was repaired due to modular/collapsible construction.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Apr 2012 12:31

Japanese and SK passenger cars never had a great in-house diesel engine. No wonder they have resorted to getting it either wholesale (the 'national engine' - Fiat 1.3 MJD sold under various monikers) or collaboration like the Hyundai crdi engine with Detroit Diesel. Its a bit weird because they do have some excellent diesel truck engines - Hino, Isuzu etc.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Apr 2012 13:24

Exception being Toyota which has a good Diesel for Innova , Fortuner, Etios. Even the corolla has the 1.4 Diesel of Etios with VGT.

Dont forget even the qualis would have been a flop if it had been a Petrol.

Honda offcourse, does not seem to know even to buy a Diesel and fit in.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 29 Apr 2012 21:53

pandyan wrote:
Yogi_G wrote: The innova with a full load can stay at 100 comfortable on NHAI, but the ertiga with a full load will definitely struggle to maintain that speed. Its definitely not designed for the highways but more of a city commuter, IMHO. But its a beauty in its quite lonely class.
that's not correct...check the t-bhp review. infact, it is exactly opposite; ertiga diesel is a strong mid range performer and can cruise 120 comfortably.

Correct, I stand corrected. The ertiga has excellent power to weight ration with 72 BHP for every ton of its weight. From what I have read in the review I understand 120 shouldnt be tough for it. And then there is the pete's kit which can increase its power to 105-110 easily. A good chart here --> http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachmen ... enshot.png

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 30 Apr 2012 14:02

Does the Maruti Ertiga have a provision to have the last row of seats side-ways? (like in jeeps). At least on their official web site, the image was a of a vehicle with three rows of seats all facing the front. Where as if the last set of seats were placed side ways, there would be more boot space. Or else is there a provision to tilt the last seat row completely to the front so that, we have a bigger boot space?

This vehicle is on my radar, but if the only purpose of it is to ferry more people then I may hold on for a while. Currently a vehicle to carry 4 regular passengers is enough. But lots of boot space and is what I look for.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 30 Apr 2012 15:08

^^
You can fold the last row of seats.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 08 May 2012 03:17

Tata Motors tests vehicles running on air.

Tata Motors, India’s biggest auto maker, on Monday said it had successfully tested vehicles running on compressed air on two of its products.

It has tied up with Motor Development International (Luxembourg) to produce and sell cars powered by compressed air.Both companies had signed a licence agreement in 2007.The agreement covered two phases of activity, encompassing the technology transfer and proof of the technical concept in the first phase and completing detailed development of the compressed air engine into specific vehicle and stationary applications in the second phase.

The first phase of this programme, which included proof of the technical concept in Tata Motors vehicles, has now been successfully completed, with the compressed air engine concept having been demonstrated in two Tata Motors vehicles.The company said in the second phase of the development, the two companies were working to complete detailed development of the technology and required technical processes to industrialise a market-ready product application over the coming years.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 08 May 2012 09:29

Whatever happened to the electric cars that Tata motors has been testing for more than 5 years now. Why arent they plying on Indian roads yet? And now we have compressed air?

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 08 May 2012 12:34

Sriman wrote:^^
You can fold the last row of seats.

And therein lies the biggest weakness....

If you fold the last row seats (for boot space), the middle row gets cramped. The last row head rest design is so screwed up that it takes six inches off the middle row (which has to move forward) to fold the last row.

But because it is made by Maruti, there will be 6 month waiting for it...

With the last row folded, it's not even a 5 seater.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 May 2012 13:50

in normal cars the headrest if any of last row can be removed for folding, it doesnt look good if a 7L+ car ....

vina · Post by **vina** » 09 May 2012 12:43

Hmm. Motorcycle Polo in Rwanda

Something looked very familiar in the pictures. Yes , on reading the article, I realized it was the motorcycles. They were all TVS 125cc bikes we see in India all the time.

I looked further and it seems like the likes of Bajaj, TVS and others have got a pretty strong handle on this African market and the bikes are used as "Bike Taxis" there . Cool!

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 09 May 2012 14:37

vina wrote:I looked further and it seems like the likes of Bajaj, TVS and others have got a pretty strong handle on this African market and the bikes are used as "Bike Taxis" there . Cool!

They are new entrees. Tata commercial vehicles had a decent presence in Africa even decades back. A senior colleague (when I was in the company) was posted in Kenya, Uganda etc in the 80s.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 May 2012 15:15

vina wrote:Hmm. Motorcycle Polo in Rwanda

Something looked very familiar in the pictures. Yes , on reading the article, I realized it was the motorcycles. They were all TVS 125cc bikes we see in India all the time.

I looked further and it seems like the likes of Bajaj, TVS and others have got a pretty strong handle on this African market and the bikes are used as "Bike Taxis" there . Cool!

Thats why when 8 years back there was talk of cheap Chinese Bikes in Chennai for 15000 beteer than Indian Bikes I did not belive people, since I told them Indian bikes compete in International Bikes. It turned after a few months that those meant to be sold were stolen CHinese Bikes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 May 2012 17:03

what happened to the chinese bikes Xenitis was supposed to assemble in west bengal?

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 15 May 2012 18:24

Hyundai car probed after air bag cuts owner's ear

And I thought it was only wimmen who cut men's ear inside car onleee.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 19 May 2012 14:10

Narendra Modi's dreams of making Gujarat the auto hub dashed?