Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 30 Apr 2012 17:12

Four Luton men charged with terror offences

Four men arrested in Luton last week have been charged with a number of terrorism offences.

Zahid Iqbal, 30, Mohammed Sharfaraz Ahmed, 24, Syed Hussain, 21, and Umar Arshad, 23, will appear in custody at Westminster Magistrates' Court later.

The men, who all live in Luton, are jointly charged with terrorism offences allegedly carried out between 1 January 2011 and 25 April 2012.

A fifth suspect arrested last week has been released without charge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17896806

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 30 Apr 2012 19:00

Lalmohan wrote:so skype now does recording quality voice?
i wonder if movies like jism actually have their target audience in p-land, for all the furious maalish-wallah's?

I think the rumour of Skype audio recording for the playback singer is utter BS. Audio quality for cinema production requires extremely high fidelity, the very process of encoding and transmission for a conversational application like Skype (which means bit rate and latency is of higher value than quality) , makes me think that someone is doing mental-maalish in tango with mijjile.

Non-availability of visa does not mean the singer cannot recording and upload the sound file which can later be downloaded by Pooja Bhatt. Express Tribune is peddling non-sense.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Apr 2012 19:44

Or rather express tribune that the physical CD/Pen drive were imported illegally into the country with payment being made via hawala route and relevant customs duty/ import of service charges not being paid by Bollywood biggies.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 30 Apr 2012 20:13

What a place... Raymond Davis saga continues..
I was under the impression that these folks received flights out of Pakistan?
http://news.yahoo.com/pakistani-women-r ... 36251.html

saip · Post by **saip** » 30 Apr 2012 20:26

gakakkad wrote:

What the hell are they smoking! spill alert would have been appreciated! Its tea time in India!

The pakees are hell bent on making a fool of themselves..they have vomited the exact paragraph in wikipedia article of shame-heen..

Did the pakees even test fire a missile of any sort ? even a sounding raakit ?

Also, they said they fired it from somewhere near Slummabad. If the range is 1000km where the h*11 did it land? Not in the Indian Ocean definitely. May be they fired it to Lyari -- two birds with one rocket?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 May 2012 01:14

Pakistan lodges formal complaint over N Waziristan drone attack

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Monday summoned a senior US diplomat to lodge a formal protest over Sunday’s drone attack inside the tribal belt, igniting fresh tensions between the two countries.

“US Political Councilor, Jonathan Pratt was summoned at the Foreign office by Director General America over yesterday’s drone attack,” according to an official statement issued here.

A similar protest was also lodged in Washington to convey Islamabad’s displeasure over the unilateral strikes.

The Predator attack was the first since the Parliament approved new terms of engagements that seek an immediate halt in the CIA-piloted campaign.

But the US policy has now turned out to be one of the major sticking point hindering cooperation between the two countries.

Recently, Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar acknowledged that despite Pakistan’s repeated demands, the US was not listening to Pakistan’s demands to stop the drone attacks.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 May 2012 01:23

Latest US Drone attack on Pakistan torpedoes reopening of Nato supply route - TOIlet warning

WASHINGTON: Undeterred by Islamabad's shrill protests about breach of its sovereignty by American Drone strikes culminating in a parliamentary resolution calling for a halt to such unmanned attacks, the US conducted yet another such operation over the weekend. The attack has virtually torpedoed Pakistan's participation in Nato's 25th summit in President Obama's hometown in Chicago on May 20-21 where far reaching decision are expected on the transition in Afghanistan and beyond.

The weekend Drone strike came after a lull of nearly a month from the previous such attack during which time Pakistan upped the ante on the issue with its parliamentary review calling for a halt to such violations of its sovereignty. On Monday, the Pakistani foreign office condemned the latest attack which was said to have killed three or four suspected terrorists operating out of an abandoned girls' school in Miramshah.

"Such attacks are in total contravention of international law and established norms of interstate relations," Pakistan's foreign office said in a statement, terming it a violation of its sovereignty. But the attack killed more than just four militants; it also demolished any pretence of consideration for Pakistan's honor and self-respect which its leaders had put at stake with a very public stand on Drone strikes.

In Washington meanwhile, the Obama administration went on the offensive, defending the Drone strikes and maintaining that they are ethical, proportional, and in keeping with US efforts to spare innocent civilians from being caught up in the crossfire.

"The constitution empowers the president to protect the nation from any imminent threat of attack," Obama's chief of counterterrorism John Brennan said on Monday without referring specifically to the weekend's strike. "It is hard to imagine a tool that can better minimize the risk to civilians than remotely piloted aircraft."

"There is absolutely nothing casual about the extraordinary care we take in making the decision to pursue an al Qaida terrorist, and the lengths to which we go to ensure precision and avoid the loss of innocent life," Brennan told a meeting at the Woodrow Wilson Center.

The immediate consequence -- which does not in the least seem to faze Washington -- of the attack is that Pakistan is likely to defer its decision to re-open the US/Nato supply route to landlocked Afghanistan. The addition of Drone injury to the insult of not proffering an apology for the Salala bombing in which Nato forces killed 24 Pakistani soldiers also means Islamabad may be forced to boycott the Nato meeting in Chicago, although Pakistani officials said no decision had been taken in this regard.

The US never made it clear if Islamabad was invited for the summit, but Pakistan's Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani was expected to attend the summit, in part as a move to resurrect his own political fortunes after adverse court verdicts linked to domestic politics. The engagement was also expected to build on the recent visit to Pakistan by US special envoy Marc Grossman. Although that trip was deemed a failure over lack of agreement on a public apology over the Salala incident, some progress was expected over the Nato supply route resumption since it is also linked to Coalition Support Funds (CDF) payments which are vital to Pakistan's financial survival.

But the latest Drone attack, a virtual slap in the face of the Pakistani parliamentary resolution, establishes the principle that President Obama enunciated in his meeting with Gilani in Seoul in March and which Brennan implicitly referred to: Washington will be mindful of Pakistani sovereignty, but not at the cost of the security of the United States and its allies.

The US has long made the case -- unevenly and sporadically -- that Islamabad cannot protest about violation of its sovereignty when it cannot, or does not or will not, act against terrorist groups that freely operate in Pakistan, in some cases with knowledge and support of its establishment. Washington is also said to have been angered by renewed attacks in Kabul by groups operating out of Pakistan.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 May 2012 01:27

US drone strikes wise, legal, just, defends White House official

Speaking at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington DC, Brennan said, “there is nothing in international law that bans the use of remotely piloted aircraft for this purpose or that prohibits us from using lethal force against our enemies outside of an active battlefield, at least when the country involved consents or is unable or unwilling to take action against the threat.”

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 May 2012 01:47

How to save the U.S.-Pakistan relationship

Islamabad is unhappy with the United States. As the anniversary of the killing of Bin Laden approaches, Pakistani officials, and especially parliamentarians, are spewing even more venom against the United States than they usually do -- which is saying a lot. Pakistan is full of grievances. It is furious that the United States is launching drone attacks against al Qaeda terrorists on its territory. Pakistan has not yet reopened the logistics support line to Afghanistan through its territory, which it closed in retaliation against the previous spate of American drone attacks. The future of that line now appears to be in real jeopardy.

Pakistan wants $3 billion from the Coalition Support Fund as compensation for its operations in support of the American effort against terrorists operating from the Tribal Areas. Washington is prepared to reimburse about a third of that amount, and is not yet ready to pay even that.

Finally, Islamabad is uneasy with the Afghan-American agreement that commits Washington to a decade of support for Afghanistan once American and coalition troops withdraw in 2014. No one really knows how much American assistance will really be available. Ten years is a very long time, and American interests could lie elsewhere. But Pakistanis, ever seeking to render Afghanistan firmly within their sphere of influence -- and to prevent it from becoming part of India's sphere -- are uneasy about the thought of close American ties to Kabul for the foreseeable future.

There are those in Washington who persist in calling Pakistan an American ally. It is no such thing. The American-Pakistani relationship is a forced marriage of inconvenience. American-Pakistani relations are a shadow of the cooperation that had reached its zenith when Pervez Mussharraf committed himself to the fight against al Qaeda. Early in the past decade, Pakistan redirected its forces from the Indian border, and undertook serious operations against al Qaeda. Pakistan lost many troops in the effort, and the United States, recognizing Islamabad's contribution, established the Coalition Support Fund, which, at least when I was in charge of payments, covered over 80 percent of all Pakistani claims.

But times have changed. Pakistan's military has become increasingly radicalized, even as the size of its nuclear weapons arsenal continues to grow apace. The country's president, Asif Ali Zardari, has struggled with the military virtually since the day he took office. The Pakistani "street," whose history of hostility to the United States dates back at least to the 1979 burning of the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad, is even more violently anti-American today. The power and influence of the Imams, and of the students who graduate their madrasas, continues to grow unabated. And the possibility that the country will break apart, with Pashtu, Baluch, Sindhis, and Punjabis, each going their own way, is considered more real than ever before.

The United States cannot abandon Pakistan. To do so is to invite open Pakistani support for the likes of the Haqqanis, who probably are now America's most dangerous adversaries in Afghanistan. However bad the relationship with Pakistan's military might be, having no relationship would be even worse. After all, not all of Pakistan's generals are radical Muslims; many still retain a Western-oriented outlook.

Moreover, the only way to combat the influence of radical Islam in Pakistan is to fund schools that can compete with the madrasas, by offering both religious and secular studies, as well as the hot meals that impoverished students can obtain nowhere else. While reeling economically, only the United States, despite its own economic headaches, is still in a position to finance directly the creation and sustenance of such an educational system.

Finally, however uncomfortable the relationship with Pakistan may be today, a Pakistan that becomes even more radicalized, or worse still, breaks apart, will represent a true danger to American security. Washington is right to ignore Pakistani protests and once again to employ drones against those who seek to harm America. It is also right to withhold payments of Coalition Support Funding until the road to Afghanistan is once again re-opened. But America must do more, in other ways, particularly in developing a much more ambitious plan to support modern education in Pakistan's poorest areas -that would also encompass traditional Koranic studies. Perhaps direct American assistance will not be feasible -- Islamabad may prohibit such aid. In that case, indirect means will have to be found -- perhaps via international organizations. If the United States truly hopes for a cooperative relationship with Pakistan, it must do all it can to shed the light of modern education on the darker corners of that country's psyche. Nothing less will do, and no action at all would constitute a tragedy, for Pakistan, for the entire region, and for the United States as well.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 May 2012 03:37

The IAF chief also said the same thing that TSP was getting even more terrorist or Talibanized.
And DDM in India was wondering if it was alarmist!

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 01 May 2012 05:25

Also, they said they fired it from somewhere near Slummabad.

and since it is so stealthy that even naPak satellites cannot track it where did it land? how they figure that out? May be last week Drone Attack was Shaheen missile at NWFP-Pakhtunwa.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 May 2012 05:28

Agni lagge Poaqer Mushaffarrva mei, hum likhaye aartikaal
Khaa Lidh and Ik Ball

Pakistan was quick to respond. It test fired its Shaheen 1A missile within a week of India’s launch of Agni V. This indeed was a befitting response and demonstration of national resolve
Missile capability is a tool of power projection and ability to have missiles with continental reach does add to the prestige of a state. However, such capability is always viewed in conjunction with other socio-economic indicators. Unfortunately, Indian performance in this sector has not been adjudged well. Successive UN reports on millennium development goals have been bracketing India with some of the underdeveloped Afro-Asian states. Luxuries like Agni V mean nothing for 440 million under nourished Indians living below Rs 26 per day and a per capita power consumption of 47 KW per annum. Inherent weakness in Indian strategy is that while all major counties of the world manufacture aero-planes, submarines and sophisticated weapon systems, India procures them. Therefore, it is poised to spend a major portion of its foreign exchange to keep its armed forces duly modernized. As a result, the benefits of booming Indian economy stop short of reaching a common Indian.Agni V is an improved version of Agni III. Addition of a stage and some miniaturization: not a big deal. AgniV is technically an intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM), having similarities with the American ‘Minuteman III”. It can deliver a single 1.5 megaton weapon 5,000 kilometers away. This design could eventually carry between 3 and 10 warheads at a time, once Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicles (MIRVs) are built for it. Spin off of present configuration could lead to development of a submarine launched version. Indian Army and Navy will be the operators of this missile and its variants. Arihant submarine is poised to carry the naval version of missile in its silos. Chinese experts are of the view thatthis missile actually has the potential to reach 9,00,00 kilometers; however, under pressure from Nato/America India had to cut down the missile range to 5,000 kilometers, or maybe it is down playing the range to avoid causing concern to other countries. Regions to worry about this missile are Asia and parts of Europe & Africa. However, with declaratory range, and prevailing strategic environment, this missile is reduced to a China specific weapon.Agni V is not Pakistan specific. India already had adequate missile inventory to cover entire Pakistan. Likewise, Pakistan has compatible capability and its missiles can reach the farthest end of India. Nevertheless, with this grand success, India joins the US, Russia, France and China, which have ICBM capability.Since the early sixties, India has chosen to play as an American proxy against China. Its specific role has been to act as cheap deterrent on American behalf. Current test of China specific Agni V indicates that India would continue doing America’s bidding.

The writer is a retar Air Commod ore and former assistant thief at air staff of the Pakistan Air Force. At present, he is a door knob at the visiting faculty at the PAF Air War College, Naval War College and Quaid-i-Azam University.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 01 May 2012 05:58

and now BSF Jawans Aarti and Reena are getting Valor medals for gunning down the naPakis

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20120501/punjab.htm#8

BSF women constables awarded for valour
Ravi Dhaliwal
Tribune News Service

Gurdaspur, April 30
Aarti and Reena , BSF constables, have become the talk of the town. They displayed unusual valour in gunning down two Pakistani intruders, one of them 50 metres from the border fencing in the Dera Baba Nanak Sector, last evening.

A Pakistani cell phone and a SIM card were recovered from the encounter site.

Almost 24 hours after the incident, BSF officials here are cock-a-hoop over the feat of their women colleagues. The DIG, PS Bains, who was quick to reach the encounter site and hand over cash awards to the women constables yesterday, has written to the Director-General, BSF, New Delhi, urging him to felicitate the brave duo.

A senior BSF officer, pleading anonymity, said considering that it was the first incident of its kind, a gallantry award may be conferred upon the women constables by the President.

An elated Bains said: “These women showed exemplary courage. I salute my brave daughters as they did not panic at the sight of the intruders. On the contrary, they displayed nerves of steel. Aarti and Reena displayed both wisdom and strength.

“I am sure their feat will motivate other women working with the BSF at difficult terrains where no quarters are given and
none asked for.” Talking of one of the intruders, Aarti said he was well-built. “We asked him to surrender but he charged at us. We pumped four bullets into his body,” she recalled. Aarti hails from Tanda in Hoshiarpur district while Reena is a native of Baghapurana in Moga district. Both joined the BSF in 2008 and after 36 months of rigorous training, which included both tactical and weapon training, they were inducted into the 74th Battalion and given charge of the difficult border outpost in the Dera Baba Nanak Sector.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 01 May 2012 06:04

Dera Baba Nanak post is right on the river Ravi across from the town of Dera Baba Nanak. This is the town around where Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji lived in his last years (His clothes, sandals, etc are preserved and on display at various gurdwaras here)., just across the river Ravi is another town called "Kartarpur" where he actually lived. This is a very dangerous area now as there is no Water in River Ravi anymore! due to Ranjit Sagar Dam and Pongal dam at Pathankot/Jammu. Before 1990s it was very hard for smugglers, terrorists to pass through the fast flowing River., not anymore.. only thing that stops them now is the doubled Barbed Wire. It will be a good idea to electrify the barbed wire so that these drug dealers/smugglers/terrorists get electrocuted where brave women and men of BSF are not watching!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 May 2012 06:13

Jhujar wrote: The writer is a retard Air Commod ore and former assistant thief at air staff of the Pakistan Air Force. At present, he is a door knob at the visiting faculty at the PAF Air War College, Naval War College and Quaid-i-Azam University.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 01 May 2012 06:22

Another case of friendly fire in the information dimension of war on terror.

Christine fair, in her typical TSPA-philia, sticks to her belief that there are no civilian casualties by drone strikes and cites her brief by senior TSPA commanders as proof. This corroborates with John O. Brennan's remarks on drones today.

On the other hand, the Paki lawyer is reminding the whole world how khan has violated the sovirginity of Pak and needs to be held accountable. He has apparently filed a case against CIA, Groper Gillani, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and non-existent MoD.

They are representing one side each of the paradoxical situation TSPA finds itself in. Even if we set aside the importance of drones for Americans, it must be getting increasing difficult from TSPA to balance these two contradictory things

1) For public consumption and for the morale of lower ranks, it can not let US violate its sovirginity especially after it fueled anti-americanism all these years.

2) TSPA needs drones to save itself from TTP, since it CT ops have been ineffective in tribal areas.

[youtube]c9-0p3Z0YUY&feature=plcp[/youtube]

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 May 2012 08:06

Cross post

If I make the assumption that the first Muslims were inserted into Punjab by Mahmud - or as Atri says - it really happened 200 years later we have the year as approximately 1200 CE. In fact it might be later than that as is shown below. Afghanistan was converted first, later Pakjab and last and least was east Punjab.

if I go back to the British sociological document of 1881 that I posted earlier - here is an interesting quote of the state of Islam in Punjab:
http://www.chaf.lib.latrobe.edu.au/dcd/ ... record=709
(a very interesting read - read it all folks)

Early advance of Islám in the Punjáb.—It is difficult to fix with any approach to certainty the time at which Mahammedanism first made material progress among the population of the several portions of the Province....The people of the eastern districts (east Punjab/Indian Punjab) very generally refer their change of faith to the reign of Aurangzeb; and it is probable that the tradition very nearly expresses the truth.
<snip>
On the frontier the spread of Islám was almost certainly of earlier date. Farishtah puts the conversion of the Afghán mountaineers of our frontier and of the Gakkhars of the Ráwalpindi Division at the beginning of the 13th century, and it is certain that the latter were still Hindoos when they assassinated Mahomed Ghori in 1206 A.D. On the lower frontier it is probable that the Mahámmedan faith was already dominant when, early in the fifteenth century, the people of Multán voluntarily elected a Qoreshi and director of a Mahammedan shrine as their chief, ...The people of the western plains (Pakjab) very generally attribute their conversion to' Bahá-ul-Haqq of Multán and Bába Faríd of Pákpattan, who flourished about the end of the 13th and beginning of the 14th centuries;
<snip>
Mahammedanism in the Eastern Districts.(east Punjab/Indian Punjab)—In the eastern portion of the Punjáb the faith of Islám, in anything like its original purity, was till quite lately to be found only among the Saiyads, Patháns, Arabs, and other Musalmáns of foreign origin, who were for the most part settled in towns. The so-called Musalmáns of the villages were Musalmáns in little but name. They practised circumcision, repeated the qulmah or Mahammedan profession of faith, and worshiped the village deities. But after the mutiny (1857) a great revival took place. Mahammedan priests travelled far and wide through the country preaching the true faith, and calling upon believers to abandon their idolatrous practices.
<snip>
But the villager of the east is still a very bad Musalmán. A peasant saying his prayers in the field is a sight almost unknown, the fasts are almost universally disregarded, and there is still a very large admixture of Hindoo practice. As Mr. Charming puts it, the Musalman of the villages "observes the feasts of both religious and the fasts of neither." And indeed it is hardly possible that it should be otherwise. As I have already remarked, the conversion was seldom due to conviction, but was either forcible, or made under pressure of the fear of confiscation. Thus the change of faith was usually confined to one or two members of the brotherhood; and while it is common to find one branch of a joint village community Musaluums and the other Hindoos, it is perhaps seldom the case except among the Meos of Gurgaon that any considerable group of villages has embraced Islam as a whole. Living then side by side with their Hindoo brethren in the same or the next village, sharing property in the same land, and forming a part of the same family with them, it is impossible that the Musalmán converts should not have largely retained their old customs and ideasThe local saints and deities still have their shrines even in villages held wholly by Musalmáns, and are still regularly worshipped by the majority, though the practice is gradually declining.
<snip>
A brother officer tells me that he once entered the resthouse of a Mahammedan village in Hissar, and found the headmen refreshing an idol with a new coat of oil while a Bráhman read holy texts alongside. They seemed somewhat ashamed of being caught in the act; but on being pressed, explained that their Mulla had lately visited them, had been extremely angry on seeing the idol, and had made them bury it in the sand. But now that the Mulla had gone they were afraid of the possible consequences, and were endeavouring to console the god for his rough treatment. The story is at any rate typical of the state of the Mahammedan religion in the villages of the Dehli Territory.

It seems to me that eastern Punjab (Indian Punjab) by 1947 (just 66 years after 1881) was largely Hindu/Sikh but with families where one or two senior members had been forcibly converted. Among other converts - thre was a practice of "dual faith" where they would behave Muslim under duress and return to their traditional beliefs when not under duress.

A Pakistani source has the following take on pre-1947 Punjab.

This man talks of great bhaichara and communal harmony. He claims that many (high caste) Jats had converted to Islam. This fits in with the observation of the earlier British document that speaks of forced conversion of one or two key members of landowning families. The Paki, named Sandhu, who might himself be descended from a converted Jat claims that pre-1947 Punjab had a mix of Hindu, Sikh and Muslim "high caste" land-owning families, with a mass of low caste poor. In Pakjab these low castes were Muslims and consisted of "Kaamis" and "Chuhras", while the Muslim high castes are referred to as follows:

The Punjab had been under the foreigners that helped the non-Indian or Arab origin castes like
Araeen, Qureshi or Syed, Awan, Qizalbash, Ansari, etc. to settle in the region who further achieved
a big influence in the social and political affairs in the name of religion.

The Paki author says that the converted Jats had maintained great Muslim-Sikh relations, but it was the lower castes who were responsible for the massacres of partition.

But what is clear from all the above references are the common ground that all have:

1. Forcible conversion to Islam caused some families to be split among Muslim/Sikh lines, but these families maintained ties with each other
2. There was definite communal strife because of fundamental religious differences
3. Despite that cultural relations were maintained with Sikhs being invited for Iftar and Muslims taking part if non Muslim festivities. Both communities shared music and some other cultural events
4. The western districts were Muslim dominant and the eastern districts were Sikh/Hindu predominant.

I read elsewhere that about 3 million Sikhs and Hindu came in from Pakjab and 5 million Muslims left. But the Hindus and Sikhs lost a greater area of land and had to make do with less when resettled. But he larger number of Muslims were migrating to a smaller area. But then again, many of the Muslim Migrants were "low caste Muslims" who never owned much land anyway and I doubt if they got any in Pakjab. I need to look into this is come more detail.

But the data above may have set the trend for the demographic and social dispribution of Pakjab, which has echoes today. I will come to that in yet another post.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 01 May 2012 09:35

ArmenT and Shivji,
surely you must have heard of the "julaha/jola"? They are the most common weaver class in north and west India. The majority converted for reasons I have discussed before, but a substantial protion still remain non-Muslim. Most common attribution of the name is for Persian julah - or roll of thread. Other attributions I have heard also - from jaal or net. In the GV, however the jaola/jele is reserved for fishermen - from the "net" meaning of "jaal".

It is possible that originally since both fishing nets and cloth - needed weaving skills - the weaver class was an amorphous and large group. In Muslim communities I frequented, khalifah was an honorific way of addressing the weaver/dressmaker. Julaha was seen even among Muslims as a slur - better say Malik/Ansar - each having Islamic textual and theological claims of pre-eminence connotations. In Gujarat they are called vankar - probably from vayan-kar/i - vayan is classical Sanskrit for weaving.

ArmenT,
tisserand is derived from old European "weaver". It was obviously attached as a surname to some as in most European surnames denotes professions. You are correct about "mashqi" - comes from mashq and identical to vishti.

Lohar - is ironsmith, from loha==iron.

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 May 2012 09:36

arun wrote:The Bury Park locality of Luton where those arrested are reported to have lived is infested with Mohammaddens of Pakistani origin and so I expect that a connection to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will emerge to this aborted act of terrorism sooner rather than later:

1:01pm, Tue 24 Apr 2012

Luton terror suspects being questioned

Anti terrorist officers from Scotland Yard took part in raids on addresses in Luton early this morning.

All the raids were on houses in and around the Bury Park area of the town.

With the Olympic Games in London just weeks away, the five men were arrested on suspicion that they were planning acts of terrorism ..............

ITV News

Sure enough a link to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has emerged sooner rather than later to yet another Mohammadden Terrorist plot.

The UK Newspaper “The Telegraph” identifies would be Mohammadden Terrorists, Zahid Iqbal, Syed Hussain and Umar Arshad arrested in the UK as originating from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

All four men are British citizens. Three are of Pakistani origin and the remaining, Ahmed, of Bangladeshi origin

From here:

Men appear in court charged with plotting to attack Territorial Army with model car

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 May 2012 11:01

Family squabble among surviving kin of one of those shot dead in Lahore by CIA Contractor being passed off as a US “Diplomat”, Raymond Davis, results in two deaths.

Deaths were likely caused by a dispute over the future apportioning of the “Blood Money” that was extracted from the US for the release of Raymond Davis:

Pakistan: ‘Blood Money’ Linked to Widow’s Killing, Police Say

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 May 2012 11:18

Protest against genocide against the minority Shia sect of Mohammaddenism by their Sunni sect co-religionists who form the majority, targets the High Commission of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Protestors are joined by former UK Home Secretary Alan Johnson:

Ex-home secretary joins protest against Hazara killings in London

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 01 May 2012 11:39

brihaspati wrote:ArmenT and Shivji,
surely you must have heard of the "julaha/jola"? They are the most common weaver class in north and west India. The majority converted for reasons I have discussed before, but a substantial protion still remain non-Muslim. Most common attribution of the name is for Persian julah - or roll of thread. Other attributions I have heard also - from jaal or net. In the GV, however the jaola/jele is reserved for fishermen - from the "net" meaning of "jaal".

Actually haven't heard of this caste/community myself. To tell you the truth though, I'm kinda clueless when it comes to castes personally. It wasn't a word spoken in my house when I was growing up and I wasn't aware what my own caste was supposed to be until they asked for it before 10th grade exams (and I somewhat embarrassedly told the teacher that I'd consult my parents and tell her the answer the next day and she said "Don't feel bad about it, your older sister said the same thing last year." Turned out that I'm half-and-half as far as caste goes, so more confusion onlee.

)

brihaspati wrote: ArmenT,
tisserand is derived from old European "weaver". It was obviously attached as a surname to some as in most European surnames denotes professions.

Thanks for translation sir.

brihaspati wrote:Lohar - is ironsmith, from loha==iron.

Yep, had this one figured out because I know loha = iron in Hindi and Bengali.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 01 May 2012 11:54

shiv wrote:
http://www.chaf.lib.latrobe.edu.au/dcd/ ... record=709

A brother officer tells me that he once entered the resthouse of a Mahammedan village in Hissar, and found the headmen refreshing an idol with a new coat of oil while a Bráhman read holy texts alongside.
...

Great work Shiv sir! Being a Jat from Hisar, I felt obliged to contribute. Regrettably my knowledge of history is limited but I did a webcrawl. This seems to be out of the Arabic book Chach Nama (also known as the Fatehnama Sindh and Tarekh-e-Hind), so I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

Jats in Islamic History

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 01 May 2012 12:21

Policeman killed, 12 injured as Lyari operation enters 5th day
http://www.samaa.tv/newsdetail.aspx?ID=46928&CID=1

KARACHI: The police operation against alleged criminals in Lyari and adjoining areas continued for the fifth day on Tuesday, with a policeman killed and over 12 people injured during the last 24 hours of crackdown, SAMAA reports.

Officials said the cop was killed when miscreants fired five rockets during police advancement in Baghdadi area.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 01 May 2012 12:27

Al Qaeda's attack plans found embedded in digital ***** movie inside underwear of an Austrian returning from Pakistan.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... -movie-479

Interrogators questioning a 22-year-old Austrian named Maqsood Lodin, who had recently returned from Pakistan via Budapest, Hungary, and then travelled overland to Germany were surprised to find a digital storage device and memory cards hidden in his underpants.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 01 May 2012 13:41

shravan wrote:Al Qaeda's attack plans found embedded in digital ***** movie inside underwear of an Austrian returning from Pakistan.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... -movie-479

Interrogators questioning a 22-year-old Austrian named Maqsood Lodin, who had recently returned from Pakistan via Budapest, Hungary, and then travelled overland to Germany were surprised to find a digital storage device and memory cards hidden in his underpants.

Interesting.What is the need for hiding in first place? If it was simply put in his pocket or carry luggage, no body would have checked its contents.I bought memory drives for my cousins and nieces so many times and no body asked me to open and reveal contents of the devices. Or this is total bogus news.
It appears as if it was meant to be found.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 May 2012 14:40

Roperia wrote: Jats in Islamic History

Roperia - some parts of that article are setting my bullshit meter ringing loudly - and those parts look like an apology for Islamic murderers and an attempt to connect Jats directly with Muhammad (peace be upon us)

According to a Hadith, Abdulla Bin Masood, a companion of the Islamic prophet Muhammad saw some strangers with Muhammad and said that their features and physique were like those of Jats.[35] This indicates that Jats may have been in Arabia even during Muhammad's time.

Sind had a large Buddhist population at this time but the ruler, Dahir, followed Brahminism, and to te Arabs was a Brahmin. It is said that the Buddhists been receiving constant information from their co-religionists in Afghanistan and Turkistan about the liberal treatment meted out to them by the Arab conquerors of those regions

First time I have heard of that...

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 01 May 2012 15:17

Five killed, 9 injured in Quetta blast

QUETTA: At least five people were killed and many others injured as a result of a powerful blast which ripped though a sensitive area at Sariab Road in Quetta city, SAMAA reports.

Police said a vehicle of Frontier Constabulary (FC) was targeted by terrorists in the explosion occurred near a grid station near degree college at Sariab road area.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 01 May 2012 16:09

shravan wrote:Five killed, 9 injured in Quetta blast

QUETTA: At least five people were killed and many others injured as a result of a powerful blast which ripped though a sensitive area at Sariab Road in Quetta city, SAMAA reports.

Police said a vehicle of Frontier Constabulary (FC) was targeted by terrorists in the explosion occurred near a grid station near degree college at Sariab road area.

^^ Just watch out this week to what happens to those FC. Today is just a trailer.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 May 2012 16:11

How long has been the karachi route been closed? If US/NATO is able to survive this long, then it turns out that the pakis have overplayed their hand and are furiously planning something else to prove their indispensability and why they need more money thrown at them..

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 01 May 2012 17:41

Pakistan placed on US top copyrights pirates list

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 01 May 2012 17:45

Nizami sees another Muslim state in India

TheNation Editor-in-Chief and Nazaria-i-Pakistan Trust (NPT) Chairman Majid Nizami has said that another Pakistan will emerge inside India if the latter did not stop atrocities against its Muslim population.

Speaking in context of banning veils for Muslim girl students in class rooms in an educational institute of Bangalore, the capital city of Karnataka (India), Majid Nizami said that these kinds of steps were inviting the large Muslim population of India to create another country inside it. Commenting on news about the shameful act of an American apostle of burning of Holy Quran, he asked the participants to themselves make judgement for what America and India have had approach towards Islam.

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 May 2012 17:47

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan makes the list of “Countries of Concern” in the UK’s just released “Human Rights and Democracy: The 2011 Foreign & Commonwealth Office Report”:

Pakistan

Despite some positive steps in 2011, there continue to be serious concerns about human rights in Pakistan, including the rule of law; investigation of allegations of torture; freedom of religion or belief; the death penalty; women’s rights; children’s rights; extrajudicial killings; access to water, healthcare and education; and free and fair elections. …………………….

Access to justice and the rule of law

The dire situation of the justice system in Pakistan continues to provide cause for concern, including in areas such as case handling, trial procedures, bail arrangements, the time taken for sentencing, prison conditions and parole. During 2011, there were continued reports of allegations of extrajudicial killings and other ill-treatment and torture by state agencies, particularly in Balochistan. We continue to emphasise to the Pakistani authorities the importance of ensuring compliance with international human rights instruments, and the need to investigate thoroughly any accusations of extrajudicial killings or torture. …………………

Freedom of religion or belief

In early 2011, two politicians – Salman Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti – were assassinated in Islamabad. Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab Province, was shot by one of his own bodyguards at a market in Islamabad in January. Shahbaz Bhatti, the Minister for Minority Affairs, was killed by the Pakistan Taliban while leaving his home in March. Both had called for the blasphemy laws to be reformed. Pakistan’s blasphemy laws are frequently abused by individuals as a means of carrying out personal vendettas through making unfounded accusations against other members of their communities. These accusations are most often levelled at Muslims by other Muslims, but are also regularly used to target religious minorities. The response to their assassinations caused widespread concern, both in Pakistan and the UK. The killer of Mr Taseer justified his actions by highlighting the former’s support for reform of the blasphemy laws and his support for a Christian woman sentenced to death under these laws. While swiftly condemned by all mainstream political parties in Pakistan, his killer was feted by many for his religious conviction, and benefited from several high-profile supporters during his subsequent trial. ………………………….

Minority rights

This year has seen further incidents of discrimination against minorities in Pakistan, including against the Hindu and Hazara populations. In particular, we are concerned about targeted attacks on the Hazara population in Balochistan in the second half of 2011 and the Ahmadi community in Pakistan. Provisions within the constitution of Pakistan prevent Ahmadis from openly practising their religion, or identifying themselves as Muslims. ……………………..

Clicky

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 01 May 2012 17:50

Railway track blown up in southwestern Pakistan

A rail track has been exploded in Pakistani city of Quetta in southwestern Balochistan province as two attacks hit northwest part of the country, Press TV reports.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 01 May 2012 19:19

This i believe is a Benis thread material, but informative enough for this one too.

Seized Memory Card Contained al Qaeda Documents Encoded in P0rn

Last year, Maqsood Lodin was being interviewed by police after he'd travelled to Pakistan. When his questioners found a memory card in his underwear, they were suspicious—but it seemed only to contain p0rn. Later investigation, however, reveals that one film was actually encoded with more than 100 secret al Qaeda documents.

CNN reports that Lodin had travelled back to his home in Austria, from Pakistan, via Budapest, Hungary and Germany, which is what aroused suspicion. When police found the memory stick, all they could find on it was a p0rnographic video called Kick Ass and a file marked $exy Tanja.

It has now come to light that, after several weeks of analysis, German investigators discovered more than 100 al Qaeda documents encoded inside the p0rn video—including an inside track on some of the terror group's future operations and PDF terrorist training manuals in German, English and Arabic. CNN reports that US military sources have told it that the trove of files are "the most important haul of al Qaeda materials in the last year".

Future attacks detailed in the documents include the idea of seizing cruise ships and carrying out attacks in Europe similar to the gun attacks in Mumbai in November 2008. Lodin is now on trial in Berlin, where he's pleading not guilty to terrorism charges.

http://gizmodo.com/5906557/seized-memor ... ed-in-*****

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/30/world ... ?hpt=hp_c1

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 01 May 2012 20:25

So thanks to the Paki's now i guess, if anyone catches you watching p-orn, can always say we are looking for hidden codes and terrorist plots.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 01 May 2012 20:50

by Shiv
But what is clear from all the above references are the common ground that all have:

1. Forcible conversion to Islam caused some families to be split among Muslim/Sikh lines, but these families maintained ties with each other
2. There was definite communal strife because of fundamental religious differences
3. Despite that cultural relations were maintained with Sikhs being invited for Iftar and Muslims taking part if non Muslim festivities. Both communities shared music and some other cultural events
4. The western districts were Muslim dominant and the eastern districts were Sikh/Hindu predominant.

Jats are those Rajputs who took to farming. All Jats agree that they originated from Rajasthan and settled at current Punjab between Indus and river Ganga. So!! Sikh Jats have their areas which are as following

1. Sandhu clan is from Gujranwala and its vicinity. It is the largest Sikh Jat clan. Maharaja Ranjit Singh was "Sandhu" and thus majority of Sandhu's now are from Lahore.

2. Bajwa clan is from Sialkote and sorrounding (Raja Sialu was a Bajju Rajput and thus Bajwa) The whole area of Sialkote/Gurdaspur/Batala is also referred as "Bajwait" i.e. "The land of the Bajwa. Baj means "Hawk" and Bajwa means "Tribe of the Hawk".

3. Majority of the Sidhus/Brar are from the Patiala area., Captain Amarinder Singh is a Sidhu.

4. Dhillons are from the Southern Amritsar/northern Ferozepur area (Badal is a Dhillon)

5. Randhawa clan is from Amritsar.

6. Virk clan is from the area called Virkgarh which was renamed by the Mughal Jahanjir to "Sheikhupura" on his name. The nick name of Jahangir was "Shaikhu". So Sheikhupura in Pakistan was originally called "Virkgarh" i.e. "citadel of the Virks" just like Bhatinda is "Citadel of the Bhatti Rajputs who are both Rajputs and Jats"

The reason why Akbar was calling Jahangir a "Shaikhu" was because he was the first Mughal to be born in India.
Since then any locally converts by Mughals if they are not of high caste call themselves as "Shaikh" or "Sheikh".
Brahmins who converted to Islam became "Sayyids"

and so forth!!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 May 2012 20:52

More on castes in Pakistan
http://reddiarypk.wordpress.com/2009/08 ... -pakistan/

Syeds (also known as Shahs in Sindh) claim to be the descendants of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) and are the highest caste in most places. In Punjab, the Ranas (Rajpoots), Chaudhurys and Maliks are considered higher caste, whereas the Kammis (workers), Chuhras (“untouchable” sweepers who are mostly Christian), Mussali (Muslim shaikh - menial workers) and Miraasi (musicians) are considered lower caste. In the NWFP, “lower castes” are referred to as Neech Zaat (low caste) and Badnasal (of bad lineage). In Balochistan the “lower castes” include Ghulams (slaves), Lohris (musicians), and Lachhis (Dalits). In Sindh, “high-caste” Muslims, in addition to Shahs and Syeds, include the Akhunds, Effendis, Soomros, Talpurs, and Pirs. Hajjams (barbers), Dhobis (washers), Kumbhars (potters), Maachis/ Mallahs (fisherfolk) and Bhajeer (Dalit converts to Islam) are considered “low caste”. In places like Swat, the Quom system is comparative to the Hindu caste system. Here, groups are divided rigidly according to occupation. Quoms do not intermarry or live together. The fact that caste is an important social identity for Pakistani Muslims is reinforced in matchmaking/ marriage services, where caste is one of the key attributes mentioned by prospective brides and grooms. Caste based marriage preferences and associations are documented amongst Pakistanis in the Diaspora, especially in the UK.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 01 May 2012 20:58

shiv wrote: Roperia - some parts of that article are setting my bullshit meter ringing loudly - and those parts look like an apology for Islamic murderers and an attempt to connect Jats directly with Muhammad (peace be upon us)

I read some very strange stuff there as well. After reading some other pages on that wiki I realized that the author blindly copies some parts from Arabi books (who like the Brits eulogize their conquest) and those particular lines you quoted are from a books titiled Chach Nama - Tarekh-e-Hind wa Sindh by Kàzí Ismáíl, The Muslim community of the Indo-Pakistan subcontinent, 610-1947; a brief historical analysis by Ishtiaq Husain Qureshi - a Paki and Arab~o-Hind ke Tallukat, By Suiaiman Nadvi) - another Paki.

They may be one among those Pakis that think that they are Arabs and claim that - while they peacefully converted their fellow Hindus and Buddhists using sword, the Hindus have since then been unkind to them. Lets ignore this BS!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 May 2012 21:12

A history point to note: When did Pakistan become a client state/vassal of the USA?

http://www.merip.org/mer/mer246/power-patronage

The second of Ayub Khan’s legacies can be seen in his attempts to build friendly relations with the US. Abdul Ghaffar Khan, a companion of Mahatma Gandhi who was also known as the Frontier Gandhi, quotes a letter to President Dwight D. Eisenhower wherein Ayub expressed a desire on behalf of Pakistani officers to serve the US in much the same way that they had served Britain prior to independence. [2] Though the desire was at that point theoretical, it was not long before relations between the US and Pakistan were such that the Pakistani military could expressly serve US interests. In return, Washington would provide considerable patronage, making Pakistan one of the largest annual recipients of US military aid.