Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29th May 2012

[abhijitm]

Pakis want to turn around/save their economy is a myth. Neither they have shown any kind of will power over the decades, nor the necessary capability. Their governor of State Bank of Pakistan once said something like "printing money does not contribute to inflation"! Anyway, the point is almost every profit they make, every paisa they save eventually be used against us.

[Sanku]

If you mean whether the petro barons and the allied mercantalist class will browbeat GOI from taking punitive measures...
I think 26/11 changed the answer to that question. .

When you yourself place trade interests before any form of tightening the screws on Pakis. On what basis can anyone believe that thought? Given the wide variance in your own two statements.

In any case there is no proof on the ground that India has taken any step (let alone a tough one) against Pakistan post 26/11 -- in any field including bizness, and none of the biznessmen have asked for such steps either. -- OTOH some are scrambling to offer Pakistani as much goodies as they can offer. Oil being the latest one.

So clearly that statement is a lullaby -- aiming to get on with money making now and offering insincere and vague future promises for extremely dubious quality.

Unfortunately on BRF, it will be called out for what it is.

[Sanku]

How many businessmen wanted to punish Pakistan after 26/11?.

Isnt it funny that the person who claims that Pakistan is a minor irritant and does not talk about measures to punish Pakistan for it and instead wants to throw a lifeline to them for money wants us to believe that the mercantile class has learnt its lessons?

[abhijitm]

Onion: When onion prices were skyrocketing and there was general shortage, India tried to import(buy back) Onion from Pakistan. It refused permission to import by Train Rakes and permitted only by Trucks which proved costly and timeconsuming.

Thanks, I was going to quote that. Shows true paki nature.

[Lilo]

..... which is a manifestation of a number of assumptions like pakistan's economy will become dependant on India,

Pakistan's economy is already a dependant Sagarji, and after the current American and GCC succour is slowed down to a trickle pakees will be knocking (nay banging) on chinese and the Indian door .

Pakistan will hence become a saner state, Pakistan will stop supporting terrorism, in short Pakistan will grow up.

This contention has been held a few times in your post , but to make things clear this is BRF and every one instinctively knows the true nature of pakis and the fact that no amount of cajoling can make them saner with respect to india. I was arguing that economic compulsions will ultimately force pakis to start trade with india sooner rather later. And thats our chance.

Look at your own post sirji talking about economic relation and war in the same breath.

My vague recollection of world history show many examples where sworn enemies were active trading partners. Europe during the 2 world wars is the best example. They all traded while scheming against one another and India is in a good position to play this game vis-a-vis pakees now.

[ramana]

Lilo, Let them eat dimsum. Why give them parathas?

[chaanakya]

They wont get dimsum. Chinese are not that generaous. And Hunza is still blocking their way.Anyway Pakistanis want to eat only grass.

[Lalmohan]

the core issue is whether we believe that pakistan can be soft landed into the normal world, or not. if the former then economic dependency is a valid tool. if not then it should be allowed to self destruct.
p.s. dimsum (atleast those featuring pork) is lovely!

[ramana]

I don't think they can be soft landed. My years of Paki watching have made me come to the conclusion. Zia and before him Bhutoo's Islamization/Nazar-eya-Pakistan drive have turned them into hard nut brain dead literalist jihadis. The soft core Sufi based version of Islam is being overturned into hardline Wahabandi Islam. The core of this miasma is Pakjab. The other regions have to be allowed to find their own kismet.

[Lalmohan]

poll time - can pakistan be soft-landed?

[Sanku]

the core issue is whether we believe that pakistan can be soft landed into the normal world, or not.

Well that is only part of the issue. Even if Pakistani can be soft landed into a normal world, giving them goodies BEFORE they are punished and their bad manners removed and evil spirits exorcised is a bad idea.

For soft landing, first Pakis have to be kicked out of their orbit, we will then see whether we should help them during their reentry by providing heat shields or just let them burn up.

But first --> kick.

Giving them a thrust while they are still in the current orbit, is only going to make things worse.

[abhijitm]

Dr Afridi jailed for helping Khyber militants
pakis hit a sixer

In a militancy infested tribal region it’s rare to see a member of an outlawed group or terrorist organisation being tried or convicted. However, Dr Afridi was sentenced to such a harsh jail term not for involvement in any act of terrorism but on the charge of having links with Mangal Bagh.
Until now officials have been vaguely saying that Afridi was convicted on charges of involvement in anti-state activities that was taken to believe that he had been sentenced for helping the CIA in its Abbottabad raid.

Another attempt to fool the world.

[Anujan]

Remember that incident when the more pious killed 88 Ahmadis in a Mosque? Well the court has ruled and rendered justice! It has ruled that the mosque is illegal and the dome and minaret should be demolished.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/386259/daru ... aret-dome/

Two years after the tragic attack on worshippers at Darul Zikr, an additional session judge ruled that the Ahmadi community will have to to demolish the minaret and dome of the worship place.

[RamaY]

MMS has long been talking about three things every time he opens his mouth on TSP:

1. War is not an option
2. Cannot continue to not talk or not engage the TSP
3. Normalizing the relations between the countries over a period of time via increasing trade and people to people contact.

The recent developments only confirm the above it's just that MMS was waiting for Indians who are essentially sentimental fools to get over with their customary 4 day ro-dho over 26/11 attacks. Now that we all have forgotten everything the gobermund can get back to what it does the best when it comes to TSP i.e. commit a huge clusterfck and for some weird reason this is one area where the otherwise spineless bunch never fail to grow a pair everytime an opportunity presents itself.

More to do with domestic audience than national interests or anything.

Sometimes one need to create a calamity to rally people around him. Create a clusterfck, forces the sentimental fools to cry, then the other mango-desis can be grouped using the sentimental fools as crying babies and against progress... progress is defined as a scalar, without direction...

[abhijitm]

Pakistan ‘heading for new financial crisis without reforms’

Pakistan’s tax revenues are among the lowest in the world at just 9.8 per cent of GDP in fiscal 2010-2011, says the Asian Development Bank, and less than two per cent of the population pays tax on their income.

On top of this, the government shells out huge sums on electricity subsidies — about 1.5 per cent of GDP in 2010-11, according to the IMF — for a sector so blighted by mismanagement that most of the country suffers crippling power cuts.

Pakistan has also missed out on payments from the United States for its efforts to fight militancy under the Coalition Support Fund (CSF).

This brought around $8.8 billion into Pakistan’s coffers between 2002 and 2011, including $1.5 billion in 2009-10, but Islamabad stopped claiming the money as ties with Washington collapsed in the wake of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden last year.

“There’s not really any money coming in, and that being the case, the government is financing itself by borrowing from the local banks and the local banks aren’t seeing deposits coming in to keep up,” said Liz Martins, an economist with HSBC.

The bold part is the whole crux of paki economy. Shows how much US helped them to keep afloat. Hence instead of giving pakis any economical lifeline GoI should lobby much harder to stop US giving aid to them.

[chaanakya]

The bold part is the whole crux of paki economy. Shows how much US helped them to keep afloat. Hence instead of giving pakis any economical lifeline GoI should lobby much harder to stop US giving aid to them.

+1

[pgbhat]

Remember that incident when the more pious killed 88 Ahmadis in a Mosque? Well the court has ruled and rendered justice! It has ruled that the mosque is illegal and the dome and minaret should be demolished.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/386259/daru ... aret-dome/

Two years after the tragic attack on worshippers at Darul Zikr, an additional session judge ruled that the Ahmadi community will have to to demolish the minaret and dome of the worship place.

pacquis are truly a wretched lot.

[partha]

Dr Afridi jailed for helping Khyber militants
pakis hit a sixer

In a militancy infested tribal region it’s rare to see a member of an outlawed group or terrorist organisation being tried or convicted. However, Dr Afridi was sentenced to such a harsh jail term not for involvement in any act of terrorism but on the charge of having links with Mangal Bagh.
Until now officials have been vaguely saying that Afridi was convicted on charges of involvement in anti-state activities that was taken to believe that he had been sentenced for helping the CIA in its Abbottabad raid.

Another attempt to fool the world.

Going by this logic, Umar Gul is in danger!

[anchal]

Cross posting

In Agra region, which produces 15 - 20% of total potatoes in India, there have been protests opposing Paki potatoes being allowed through LOC route in Cashmere. Currently Amar Ujala is covering that. Farmers have submitted a memorandum to Mulayam regarding this.
Truly a fvcked up Government of South Asia headed by the world's eminent economist!

[Mahendra]

In a militancy infested tribal region it’s rare to see a member of an outlawed group or terrorist organisation being tried or convicted. However, Dr Afridi was sentenced to such a harsh jail term not for involvement in any act of terrorism but on the charge of having links with Mangal Bagh.
Until now officials have been vaguely saying that Afridi was convicted on charges of involvement in anti-state activities that was taken to believe that he had been sentenced for helping the CIA in its Abbottabad raid.

Another attempt to fool the world.[/quote]
Going by this logic, Umar Gul is in danger![/quote]

If KKR and Pakistan play a friendly match in Amirkhan, all the Bakis and King Kong Khan will be detained for sanitary inspection at the air port

[Mahendra]

I think despite the best efforts and intentions by the WKKs lead by param pujya MMS and aparampaar Raul G, any attempts to create a peaceful atmosphere between India and rabid mullah land by means of increased and mutually beneficial trade will be scuttled by Duffer-e-Pakisatan( Hafiz Pig, Haemorrhoid Gul et al). We must keep highlighting the benefits( however miniscule) that India will get by increased trade and peace with Bakistan. Stories need to be planted like how Indian diesel is of cheap quality and the exhaust that it produces makes people darker in colour. Indian locomotive engines are built in such a way that the vibrations that the engine produces create ultrasonic waves invisible to the ear but harmful to the testicles leading to sterility, also Indian locomotives are bugged by the joos and the americans and everytime a believer says AOA a predator drone strikes the locomotive.
Basically sane Indians can bank on the insane Bakistanis to scuttle any Indian attempts to help Bakistan recover from its cancer

[anupmisra]

Another attempt to fool the world.

Going by this logic, Umar Gul is in danger!

So is half their cricket team and anyone else who dropped in a buck or two into a charity box at a local mela or market operated by LeT, JuD, HuM, FuK whatever.

[KLNMurthy]

Lets consider that we establish a business relation with pakistan, my question to the pro business lobby is what will happen to this relation when a terrorist attack by "non state actors" happens ??? How shall India respond to such a situation ???

I think I answered that question in my post. The petroleum tap is a powerful one which we can turn off. it's easy to sell refined petro because demand is greater than supply. from the Paki POV they would have to buy at spot rates which are prohibitively expensive compared to fixed supplies. I would think this gives us leverage.
...

Experience of past 10-15 years has shown that on the Indian side, arguments like "we cannot change geography", "nothing is worth the interruption of economic progress" and my personal favorite, "it won't make any difference, so we might as well" have come to prevail when dealing with TSP. Without a sea change in this argumentation and decision making style, I don't see India using the fuel supply as a lever to punish Pak misbehavior.

Indian thinking is like that of an addict--in this case, our country (or its leadership) is addicted to a delusion that TSP is like the brother who has run away from home, and we can get him home for the dying mother by creating the right condition. Like the addict, who knows that the right answer is to be tough and pay the price but keeps postponing the moment of truth, we also say, we will be tough with TSP tomorrow, over fuel supply, but not today, when we are just talking with them.

[KLNMurthy]

Pakis want to turn around/save their economy is a myth. Neither they have shown any kind of will power over the decades, nor the necessary capability. Their governor of State Bank of Pakistan once said something like "printing money does not contribute to inflation"! Anyway, the point is almost every profit they make, every paisa they save eventually be used against us.

Our debate cannot lose sight of the entrenched kabila nature of TSP. They don't have a civilizational template for development in the normal sense. For the kabila state this template is irrelevant.

On the Indian side it is becoming clearer that there are also entrenched memes of wanting to "buy peace" from the feared kabila-barbarian which are driving policy.

This path will lead to a spiral of naive hope and betrayal which could end in nuclear holocaust.

[KLNMurthy]

Duplicate , deleted

[Sagar G]

Pakistan's economy is already a dependant Sagarji, and after the current American and GCC succour is slowed down to a trickle pakees will be knocking (nay banging) on chinese and the Indian door .

Then let it be a drag to their economies why shall we take that burden ??? How come sirji you can think of having any viable economic relationship with an international beggar state ??? And we know how much chinese will help pukis so I'am actually looking forward to the day when unkil stops the cash flow and puki points it's begging bowl in chipandas direction, some very intresting things are bound to happen if you get what I say

This contention has been held a few times in your post , but to make things clear this is BRF and every one instinctively knows the true nature of pakis and the fact that no amount of cajoling can make them saner with respect to india. I was arguing that economic compulsions will ultimately force pakis to start trade with india sooner rather later.And thats our chance.

Don't you think that the red and the blue parts contradict each other. When we know that no amount of cajoling will stop pakistan from being what it is then why waste time and resources in trying to establish a business relation with them when it is bound to fail. Has India done enough for it's own people that it can spare it's resources to help neighbouring states and that too pakistan ??? The only way to deal with pakistan is to keep pushing it towards it's inevitable failure. The only thing we should be worried about is the nukes and start talks with unkil to attack and snatch it at the right time.

My vague recollection of world history show many examples where sworn enemies were active trading partners. Europe during the 2 world wars is the best example. They all traded while scheming against one another and India is in a good position to play this game vis-a-vis pakees now.

Scheming against one another is one thing and to kill people on the name of religion is totally another thing. The same Europe also produced Hitler and look what treatment was given to Germany. The same is due to pakistan and would have been done long ago had our b@$tard eastern neighbours not supplied them nukes. But we have to bite the bullet one day and take military action against Pakistan, break it into several smaller states only then it will cease to being a problem.

Indians seem to be suffering from a massive bout of Stockholm syndrome.

[Altair]

MMS has long been talking about three things every time he opens his mouth on TSP:
1. War is not an option
2. Cannot continue to not talk or not engage the TSP
3. Normalizing the relations between the countries over a period of time via increasing trade and people to people contact.

I can still make MMS stick to his three things.

If Pakistan is broken into 4 residual countries

1.There is no need for a War with remaining smaller countries
2. We can continue to talk and engage all the remaining pieces until they join the Indian union in another 2-3 decades
3. We can increase trade and people to people contact with all the smaller countries at our terms.

So, we can all agree with MMS but we need him to shut his eyes,mouth and ears till we complete the premise.

[RamaY]

I think despite the best efforts and intentions by the WKKs lead by param pujya MMS and aparampaar Raul G, any attempts to create a peaceful atmosphere between India and rabid mullah land by means of increased and mutually beneficial trade will be scuttled by Duffer-e-Pakisatan( Hafiz Pig, Haemorrhoid Gul et al). We must keep highlighting the benefits( however miniscule) that India will get by increased trade and peace with Bakistan. Stories need to be planted like how Indian diesel is of cheap quality and the exhaust that it produces makes people darker in colour. Indian locomotive engines are built in such a way that the vibrations that the engine produces create ultrasonic waves invisible to the ear but harmful to the testicles leading to sterility, also Indian locomotives are bugged by the joos and the americans and everytime a believer says AOA a predator drone strikes the locomotive.
Basically sane Indians can bank on the insane Bakistanis to scuttle any Indian attempts to help Bakistan recover from its cancer

+786

[harbans]

India has like Pakistan to internalize the breakup of the opponent. There is no other way each can survive otherwise. Irrespective of sections within Pakistan and India that want or wish both do co exist with harmony. Pakistan is singularly focused on that aspect. India is not. Advantage Pakistan today. We have to change that thinking. The moment, exact second that Indians 1 Billion of them sincerely seek for 20 seconds in a day for 30 days a breakdown of Pakistan..Pakistan is finished. It won't exist. Solving Pakistan is about convincing Indians more than anyone else. Solving Pakistan is about convincing us, that a breakup of Pakistan may not be a bad thing. It is also about keeping the fences electrified and gunpowder dry.

[Virupaksha]

I think despite the best efforts and intentions by the WKKs lead by param pujya MMS and aparampaar Raul G, any attempts to create a peaceful atmosphere between India and rabid mullah land by means of increased and mutually beneficial trade will be scuttled by Duffer-e-Pakisatan( Hafiz Pig, Haemorrhoid Gul et al). We must keep highlighting the benefits( however miniscule) that India will get by increased trade and peace with Bakistan. Stories need to be planted like how Indian diesel is of cheap quality and the exhaust that it produces makes people darker in colour. Indian locomotive engines are built in such a way that the vibrations that the engine produces create ultrasonic waves invisible to the ear but harmful to the testicles leading to sterility, also Indian locomotives are bugged by the joos and the americans and everytime a believer says AOA a predator drone strikes the locomotive.
Basically sane Indians can bank on the insane Bakistanis to scuttle any Indian attempts to help Bakistan recover from its cancer

Mahendra,

If one thinks that the islamist flag bearers are insane and will reject benefits just because of their rabidity, we have already walked into their trap. They will reject any "benefit" which in any way harms their long term but will not reject out of hand monetary benefits. What they will reject is any "benefit" tied to decreasing their rabidity.

Did they reject any aid - never, but always rejected any aid which had US/India/Israel printed on it.

[Charlie]

WSJ: Dhume gives a mild warning to Pakis to mend their ways on Nato Supply Routes issue

If there were an award for committing international public relations suicide, Pakistan would be a perennial frontrunner. Last week's effort: the sentencing of Shakil Afridi, a doctor who helped the CIA track Osama bin Laden last year, to 33 years in prison for treason. In response, the U.S. Congress docked a symbolic $33 million from Pakistan's annual aid budget, or $1 million for every year of the doctor's sentence.

Washington's anger is understandable. In the year since bin Laden was discovered in a fortified mansion in the garrison town of Abbottabad, Pakistan has done little to dispel the widespread belief that the world's most wanted terrorist was sheltered by elements in the country's army and its spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence. Nobody has been punished for aiding bin Laden, part of a pattern of omissions whose beneficiaries certainly include the rogue nuclear scientist A. Q. Khan and Lashkar-e-Taiba's Hafiz Muhammad Saeed.

But as U.S.-Pakistan relations continue to nosedive, the risks for Islamabad run deeper than a mere PR disaster. For the first time since the country came into being in 1947, Pakistan is in danger of being seen as implacably hostile to the West. Should the U.S. switch from a policy of engagement to active containment, Pakistan's economic and diplomatic problems, already acute by any measure, may become unmanageable.

Dr. Afridi's punishment is only the most recent example of Pakistan's slide away from its founding pro-Western moorings. Earlier this month, Islamabad annoyed NATO countries at a summit on Afghanistan in Chicago by refusing to reopen overland supply routes it shut after the U.S. mistakenly killed 24 Pakistani soldiers in a border clash last November. Pakistan's negotiators are reportedly demanding upward of $5,000 per supply truck, more than 20 times what they charged six months ago.

In Pakistan itself, rampant anti-Americanism shows no sign of abating. Last week the Supreme Court suspended Farahnaz Ispahani, a close aide to President Asif Ali Zardari and an outspoken defender of human rights, from the lower house of the legislature. Her alleged crime: having acquired a U.S. passport in addition to the Pakistani one she was born with.

Enlarge Image

Associated Press
Dr. Shakil Afridi, who helped track Osama bin Laden, was sentenced to 33 years in prison.

Meanwhile, cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan continues to attract thousands of supporters to public rallies where he fulminates against America and declares affection for the Taliban. A Pew Research Center survey released last month shows that only 55% of Pakistani Muslims disapprove of al Qaeda. In Lebanon and Jordan that figure is 98% and 77% respectively.

Oddly enough, for many Pakistani elites, their compatriots' loathing of America is somehow Washington's problem rather than theirs. They see Pakistan, with its nuclear arsenal and proxy terrorist groups, as too big to fail. In the final analysis, their view holds, the U.S. will always be there to prop up Pakistan's ailing economy with aid and support from multilateral agencies such as the International Monetary Fund.

These elites are encouraged to think this way because a superficial reading of U.S.-Pakistani history supports this view. For the most part, Washington has not allowed episodic disagreements to get in the way of the larger relationship. Even Islamabad's clandestine acquisition of nuclear weapons in the 1980s, and proliferation to Iran and North Korea in the 1990s, did not lead to a complete rupture in ties.

Even now, only a handful of hotheads in Washington are calling for all assistance to Islamabad to be scrapped. Most responsible Pakistan-watchers, both inside and outside the U.S. government, would rather fix the relationship than scrap it.

Nonetheless, Pakistanis who expect the future to faithfully echo the past tend to forget one important detail: Pakistan has never confronted the West in the fashion it is today.

The country's founders were drawn largely from the ranks of Indian Muslims who embraced Western learning and acknowledged Western power. Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the father of Pakistan, instinctively understood that he could better advance his interests by coming to terms with the West than by opposing it.

Successive generations of Pakistani leaders, from Ayub Khan to Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto to Gen. Zia ul-Haq to Gen. Pervez Musharraf, stayed true to this belief. Even when they pursued policies at odds with U.S. interests—Gen. Zia's nuclear bomb or Gen. Musharraf's double-dealing in Afghanistan—they were careful to avoid sustained public confrontation. They knew it was counterproductive to needle a superpower they depended on for both resources and global credibility.

Pakistan's current rulers, especially the powerful army that calls the shots on national security policy, forget this lesson at their peril. The U.S. may not want to see Pakistan fail, but nor can it be expected to be endlessly patient.

Pakistan's dismal favorability rating in America means there's no real political cost to bringing Islamabad to heel by stepping up drone strikes, giving it a diplomatic cold shoulder and withholding financial support—all at the same time. Washington may even choose to add targeted sanctions against top ISI officials directly implicated in supporting terrorism.

Pakistan is playing a game of chicken without fully grasping the consequences of losing. The shrewd and practical Jinnah would have recognized the folly of this course. His successors have already betrayed his message of religious tolerance at home, and now they're on track to subvert his legacy abroad.

Mr. Dhume is a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a columnist for WSJ.com. Follow him on Twitter @dhume01

[Harish]

Apologies if posted earlier.

Pakistan is turning into another Afghanistan

THE STAR
Published On Sat May 26 2012
By Haroon Siddiqui Editorial Page

Last month, a Canadian family went to Karachi for a wedding. The day after their arrival in Pakistan’s centre of commerce, crime and terrorism, their ancestral home was invaded in broad daylight by three armed men. They held a gun to the mother’s head and threatened to kidnap her 3-year-old granddaughter.

For the next hour-and-a-half, they helped themselves to the bride’s trousseau, including gold ornaments and jewelry, and almost everything else of value. But they did leave behind, after much pleading, the family’s most valued possession: Canadian passports.

A few days later, a neighbour was kidnapped and released for a ransom of 20 million rupees ($222,000 — a princely sum in Pakistan). And the neighbourhood grocer was robbed and gunned down dead, along with his two sons and two assistants.

Such harrowing incidents are routine in the city of 18 million, Pakistan’s largest.
More people are being kidnapped and killed in Karachi than in the Afghan-Pakistan border areas that provide sanctuary for Al Qaeda, Taliban and other militants.

Karachi is arguably more Talibanized than Quetta (the exile home of Taliban leader Mullah Omar) or Abbottabad (where Osama bin Laden was killed) or Peshawar (home of Afghan refugees).

Taliban and several associated militants raise funds in Karachi, and run guns and drugs.

Karachi is also crawling with other armed political and criminal gangs engaged in turf wars, bank heists and other robberies, occupying properties that are even temporarily empty, organizing labour strikes, shutting down industries and bazaars.

Pistol-waving youth go carjacking and holding up people for a cellphone or gold rings, bangles or necklaces.

Police are under-resourced or complicit in the crimes. Other state institutions are equally ineffective and corrupt.

About 500 people have been killed so far this year. At least 800 were killed last year, and 775 the year before.

The downfall of Karachi is tragic.

It was Pakistan’s capital until 1960 (when it was shifted to Islamabad). It remains the capital of the province of Sindh. It has long been the economic engine of the country, generating more than two-thirds of national tax revenues. It is home to a highly cultured elite of industrial tycoons, landed gentry, the intelligentsia as well as the media and high fashion establishment.

The port city has also been a key transit point for the underground economy of smuggled goods into Pakistan and landlocked Afghanistan.

During the 1980s, Karachi was where the CIA delivered 5,000 tonnes of arms and ammunition per month for the Islamic Afghan warriors fighting the Soviet occupation. The hundreds of Arab jihadists who joined them also passed through Karachi, including bin Laden.

Post-Sept. 11 when Pakistan joined the American-led war on terror, the jihadists declared war on the Pakistan government as well and have waged part of it in Karachi.

Khalid Shiekh Mohamed, the mastermind of Sept. 11, operated from there. Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl was beheaded there.

“Karachi is microcosm of Pakistan,” says Shuja Nawaz, South Asia expert at the Atlantic Council in Washington, D.C.

“The future of Karachi is the future of Pakistan. You get Karachi right, you can get Pakistan right. If you fail Karachi, you fail Pakistan.” {Maybe all we have to do is nudge Karachi into the abyss, and bakistan will obediently follow}

But getting it right is not easy.

Karachi is now Pakistan’s largest Pushtun city, home to 5 million Afghan Pushtuns as well as Pakistani Pushtuns. These Pashto-speaking people are represented by the Awami National Party.

The majority in Karachi consists of Urdu-speaking people, immigrants from India who constituted Pakistan’s original political and administrative elite. They are represented by a party known by its Urdu initials MQM.

The third major group consists of native Sindhis, represented by the Peoples Party of Pakistan (of the Bhuttos). It is in power both federally and provincially, in coalition with the MQM.

But Karachi municipality is controlled by the MQM, using “guns and goondas” (thugs). What seems to be happening is that the other two parties are battling the MQM on its own terms.

Pakistan has a dizzying array of problems, most of them self-inflicted. It has also been duplicitous, allied with the U.S. but also supporting the Taliban.

Equally, there’s no denying that Pakistan has paid the price for Afghanistan, co-operating with the U.S., first against the Soviet occupation and then in the war on terror.

In that war it has lost 5,000 troops and policemen, more than all NATO fatalities in Afghanistan. It has lost about 37,000 civilians to terrorist attacks and collateral damage — nearly 10 times those killed on 9/11. While it got $10 billion from the U.S., it has lost an estimated $100 billion in foreign investments in the last decade.

Its democracy is semi-functioning. For the first time in its history, an elected government may last its full term until next year. Its judiciary is independent. Its economy is doing badly but is not bankrupt.

A failed Pakistan would threaten the stability of Afghanistan and the entire region. As a paper commissioned in 2008 by Gen. David Petraeus, head of the U.S. Central Command, put it: “The U.S. has no vital national interests in Afghanistan. Our vital national interests are in nuclear Pakistan.”

That holds true for Canada and all NATO partners.

Haroon Siddiqui is the Star’s editorial page editor emeritus. His column appears on Thursday and Sunday. [email protected]

[Charlie]

This will hurt Pakis no end. Tarek Fatah being a Paki who understands Pakiness uses the right words and hits where it hurts. Although he could have included a lot more about Paki perfidy and the ways to tackle them this is a beginning. Hope Amreecan papers publish this.

He says, the only way to hurt Pakis is to stop letting in current/retired Paki Army afsars and their families into US/UK/Canada and also deport all those who have already settled in the west including their progeny

TorontoSun:

Believe it or not, Dr. Shakil Afridi, the man responsible for locating the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden, instead of receiving the $25-million bounty on the jihadi terrorist’s head, has been convicted of treason by Pakistan and sentenced to 33 years in prison.

To understand this bizarre sentencing of a man who should’ve been celebrated as a hero, one has to understand the schizophrenic nature of the Pakistani state itself. Among the community of nations, Pakistan today stands out on one hand as a petty thug brandishing a dangerous weapon, and at other times as a concubine, sleeping with anyone willing to pay for her expensive tastes.

Stung by the humiliation of being caught in the act of providing a safe haven to the world’s number one terrorist, the Pakistani military took its revenge by imprisoning Dr. Afridi and shutting down the supply routes to NATO troops in Afghanistan.

Shamelessly, Pakistan is also demanding a U.S. apology.

The country needs tough love. But no one is willing to wrestle Islamabad to the ground and drag it away to a detox centre where it can be woken from its visions of grandeur and confronted with its true worth — a nation that can offer nothing to the world other than jihadi terrorism.

Pakistan is not the only developing country that seeks aid. However, while others show gratitude, Pakistan responds with arrogance.

One month after its creation in August 1947, its founder, M.A. Jinnah, dispatched a senior finance official to Washington with a begging bowl and a demand for $2 billion in aid. His message: If Pakistan collapses, the Soviets will be able to walk to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea.

While his official lobbied Washington, back in Karachi, Jinnah was flaunting Pakistan’s geo-strategic location to the U.S. media. He told Margaret Bourke-White of Life magazine:

“America needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs America … Pakistan is the pivot of the world, as we are placed [on] the frontier on which the future position of the world revolves.” Bourke-White wrote. Jinnah leaned toward her, dropped his voice to a confidential note, and wagged his finger. “Russia,” he said, “is not so very far away.” The Cold War had barely begun and here was the founder of Pakistan trying to benefit from the impending clash between the USSR and USA.

For 65 years the U.S. has succumbed to Pakistan — until now.

Thanks to congressmen Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) and Brad Sherman (D-CA) as well as Sen. John McCain, the Pakistan bluff has been called. Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham has referred to Pakistan as “a schizophrenic ally” while Democrat Sen. Patrick Leahy said Pakistan’s conviction of Dr. Afridi, was “Alice in Wonderland at best.”

But talk is cheap.

The time has come for Canada, the U.S. and the West to draw a line in the sand. If Pakistan is unwilling to free Dr. Afridi and arrest the al-Qaeida leader Ayman Zawahiri, then we should cut all aid to Islamabad.

The U.S., U.K. and Canada should ban the entry of all Pakistani military officers, serving or retired, as well as their families and children. The thousands of Pakistan civil and military officials who have descended on America and Canada should be asked to leave immediately.

Hit them where it hurts the country’s top brass and the establishment will buckle. If we don’t, a thousand AQ Khans will bloom.

Check out the Comments section, Tarek Fateh is replying to the Paki-Candanian Jihadi comments.

[arun]

Remember that incident when the more pious killed 88 Ahmadis in a Mosque? Well the court has ruled and rendered justice! It has ruled that the mosque is illegal and the dome and minaret should be demolished.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/386259/daru ... aret-dome/

Two years after the tragic attack on worshippers at Darul Zikr, an additional session judge ruled that the Ahmadi community will have to to demolish the minaret and dome of the worship place.

X Posted.

Typical of the bigoted Mohammadden behaviour that one has come to expect from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Rather than pursue the slaughterers of the 88 Mohammaddens of the Ahmadiyya sect by their fellow Mohammaddens of the Sunni sect, the justice system of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to be obsessed with demolishing parts of the Mosque where the carnage took place in order to prevent the imagined crime of a group of people “posing as Muslim’s”. Thus the Courts of Pakistan have permitted the erasing of Mohammadden inscriptions drawn from the Koran and the demolition of the Mosque’s Dome and minaret.

Will the Mohammadden world rise up and condemn the irresponsible precedent set by the Courts of an Islamic Republic and Ideological Muslim State, that somehow the desecration of the Mohammadden Holy Book, the Koran and demolition of Mohamadden places of worship is permissible under Mohammadden law?

[Pranav]

The paks may have mellowed very slightly, but it is tactical and temporary. Just yesterday there was an attack on CRPF in J&K. Counterfeiting ops are as always running full steam. There is a long way to go before any civilized behavior can be expected from the Paks. I do support keeping lines of communication open to wide variety of power centers within TSP.

[Anujan]

I am going to let a fox amidst the hens. I will write a bigger post.

I am increasingly of the opinion that GOI is acting rationally. Vis-a-vis Pakistan we have 3 choices

1. Let the Pakis fail, and have a huge headache of refugees, warlords, nuclear armed dictators and yahoos in our border.
2. Let the Pakis semi-fail, Proxitute themselves to US/China whatever and Let US/China have a foothold in our neighbourhood and mess with India.
3. Run Pakistan as a "troubled Indian province" (for all practical purposes).

I think No 3 is preferable in the long run and is probably GOI's thinking as well.

For example, the Diesel/Petrol supply is a Chunkian move. Army needs petrol/diesel to fight (In fact one of the reason why Pakis down-hill skiied in Kargil was Indian Navy's threat to blockade Karachi and they had fuel to fight for 3 or 7 days or whatever). If they depend on us (and not the gelf, who have their own agenda), they will be that bit reluctant to get into another Kargil.

Will GOI's moves yield immediate effect like Professor Saheb's conviction or them ceasing to print fake Indian currency? Probably not. Will it save bigger headaches associated with 200 Million Yahoos (or 200 million Proxitutes) at our border? Maybe.

We need to think about this.

[partha]

Remember that incident when the more pious killed 88 Ahmadis in a Mosque? Well the court has ruled and rendered justice! It has ruled that the mosque is illegal and the dome and minaret should be demolished.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/386259/daru ... aret-dome/

Two years after the tragic attack on worshippers at Darul Zikr, an additional session judge ruled that the Ahmadi community will have to to demolish the minaret and dome of the worship place.

I would like to know where this demolition stands in the overall scheme of outrage from Pakis w.r.t Babri demolition.

[SSridhar]

I would like to know where this demolition stands in the overall scheme of outrage from Pakis w.r.t Babri demolition.

I have not yet read the report. But, with my little knowledge of Pakistan, I would say that the Ahmedis, having been declared non-Muslims, have no business to build anything resembling a Muslim mosque. Their place of worship is not a masjid but an imambargah and must not resemble a masjid. I would think that should have been the reason for the learned judge to order demolition. I am sure that the same Pakistani Ahmedis would also oppose the Babri demolition.

[arun]

Remember that incident when the more pious killed 88 Ahmadis in a Mosque? Well the court has ruled and rendered justice! It has ruled that the mosque is illegal and the dome and minaret should be demolished.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/386259/daru ... aret-dome/

I would like to know where this demolition stands in the overall scheme of outrage from Pakis w.r.t Babri demolition.

Going by precedents set in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the problem that Pakistani’s seem to have with the demolition of the Babri Masjid was that it was not demolished while occupied by Mohammadden worshippers by a suicide bomber of the same religion on the Mohammadden Sabbath of Friday. If on the other hand the Babri Masjid had been demolished while occupied by Mohammadden worshippers by a suicide bomber of the same religion on the Mohammadden Sabbath of Friday, all would be "halal" in the eyes of Pakistanis.

[partha]

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