Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Jun 2012 22:13

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 08 Jun 2012 22:35

The above article contorts facts and propagandises that all ills in the Army is due to Gen retd V K Singh's tenure only and otherwise everything was hunky dory before and after that period. My view is that, if Gen Bikram Singh has to start cleaning up, he has to start from a time not later than ten years back.

Lt Gen Suhag proceeded on leave without taking the show cause notice issued to him. But as the third friend in '3 idiots' did, if his ailing mother is brought into the argument, as stated in the article, i can not speak further on this. Just that, a show cause notice from a senior officer is not 'accusing' the junior. If it were be so, it would be called a tentative charge-sheet.

The Army promotions were stalled in the MoD for whatever time periods stated, waiting for their approval. MoD had written to Ministry of Law for legal opinion on the policy adopted for promotions and that took some enormous amount of time. It was discussed here also, IIRC. I don't know how the author ascribes the reason to previous COAS.

Rest of the article about the controversies is not worthy of any comment.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 09 Jun 2012 10:20

IMA upgrading facilities to adjust 2,400 cadets

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Jun 2012 10:56

nelson wrote:IMA upgrading facilities to adjust 2,400 cadets

I believe army put its NDA graduates back into IMA. Is it for every officer or only some of them?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 09 Jun 2012 11:13

^^
IMA is compulsory for all cadets of Permanent Commission entry scheme (except for those joining non combat corps like AMC & ASC).

peter · Post by **peter** » 09 Jun 2012 12:43

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 943713.cms

Random or connected to any of the existing scams?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Jun 2012 14:45

Gaur wrote:^^
IMA is compulsory for all cadets of Permanent Commission entry scheme (except for those joining non combat corps like AMC & ASC).

What about the OTA in Chennai?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 09 Jun 2012 15:06

^^
OTA (both Chennai and Gaya) are specifically for Short Service Commission entry scheme.
And although I am not sure about this, I think permanent commission Officers of Army Medical Corps train for a few weeks at OTA Chennai before their commissioning.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 09 Jun 2012 16:01

All Army cadets passing out from NDA do one year training in IMA as Gentlemen Cadets, before being granted Permanent Commission.

As Gaur pointed out OTA Madras and Gaya are for training Gentlemen and Lady Cadets who get Short Service Commission.

AFAIK, Army Medical Corps and Army Dental Corps officers do not attend any of the academies for pre-commission training. They do a short course called Medical Officers Basic Course in AMC School Lucknow.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 09 Jun 2012 17:11

nelson wrote: AFAIK, Army Medical Corps and Army Dental Corps officers do not attend any of the academies for pre-commission training. They do a short course called Medical Officers Basic Course in AMC School Lucknow.

Yes, I was confused regarding where Medical Officers Basic Course was conducted. I checked it out with an acquaintance and you are obviously correct.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 10 Jun 2012 00:14

Gaur wrote:^^
IMA is compulsory for all cadets of Permanent Commission entry scheme (except for those joining non combat corps like AMC & ASC).

Only AMC/ADS have different intake set-up. PC Officers in ASC also come from IMA. Officers from ASC and AOC serve 2-year secondment with infantry units before joining their service back.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Jun 2012 00:45

BIRTHDAY SECURITY

- Promotions in the army should not be based on seniority alone

Brijesh D. Jayal
Passing on of the baton to the new chief of army staff in South Block the other day must have been accompanied by a huge sigh of relief just across the corridors in the offices of the ministry of defence. Indeed, the internecine warfare between the civilian leadership and the army these last few months had reached such a collective pitch, that one wondered from which direction the next salvo would emerge and what further damage it would do to the image of the army.

That the twilight period of the previous army chief’s tenure has demonstrated a huge void in trust between the civil and military leaderships is stating the obvious, but what must concern every citizen of this country is that the institution of the army itself appears deeply faction-ridden and afflicted by the very corruption bug that haunts our daily lives. To a people that rate the institution of the armed forces as the soundest amongst our democratic pillars, this must come as a rude shock. Whilst it falls on the shoulders of the new incumbent to pick up the debris and remould this fine army of ours, it would be naïve for others on the higher rungs of defence management to believe that life can move on without any introspection. One crucial area relates to the seniority principle in high-level appointments.

If there is one inference that emerges from this dark chapter, it is that at the core of many ills and the deep factionalism lies the hugely competitive race for promotions to the highest echelons of the military, those of service commanders and thence on to chief. The core implication of the erstwhile chief’s request for the recognition of his date of birth was the length of his remaining tenure, which in turn would have determined the fate of his successor, whose name was being openly mentioned in the media without having been formally announced. That was in itself a recent phenomenon, as names of successor chiefs are confidential till a formal announcement is made.

More ominously, during this unfortunate saga, we have repeatedly heard of succession plans being in existence. Indeed, even as the promotion of the army commander of a corps was held up owing to a discipline and vigilance ban by the army headquarters, he was already being billed as the successor to the new chief. All this appears new and lends some weight to claims that succession plans are indeed being hatched with manipulations to execute them. That would explain why factionalism seems to be rearing its ugly head in an institution that should have none of it. This trend has serious implications for the integrity and morale of the army. Some of these have been on display these last few trying months for the institution of the army.

At the heart of this problem lies the supposedly fair principle of seniority in matters of promotion to the top rung in any service. There can be no dispute about the principle that, while selecting individuals for senior level appointments, especially of chiefs, the aim should be for a system whose fairness does not relate to an individual’s interest, but to the interest of the service and, indeed in the final analysis, to the security interests of the country. The present system of seniority above all else patently fails this test as it is aimed more at avoiding controversy and in this sense is the soft approach.

As the present controversy has shown, this has a flip side as well. Those waiting in the queue can, by the sheer logic of dates of superannuation of those above, determine years in advance if they will have a chance to breast the tape. If so, they will not risk being forthright in their advice, will not stand by their subordinates in pursuit of justice, will not take the bold decisions expected of them or indeed expose themselves to hazardous assignments as this approach may needlessly rock the boat of their future. The name of the game, then, is to keep the powers that be happy, lobby and keep one’s tail clear. As long as one follows this status quo principle, the seniority model is sure to get one places. This is a recipe for pliable commanders and disastrous for any fighting arm, as the history of 1962 tells us.

Whilst initial seniority is determined at entry level depending on the date of commissioning, within the same batch it is also determined by the order of merit. The armed forces then have a time-tested system of assessing performance and accordingly determining promotions as one rises in operational experience, command experience and rank. The attrition rate is also cruelly high, but accepted as the price to be paid in the larger interests of national security. At higher ranks, as numbers lessen and the rough-and-tumble of the military profession takes its toll, not just past performance, but also employability for higher appointments become decision-making factors. So the competition gets even tougher. As long as the competition is fair and rules of the game transparent, officers take this in their stride. In true soldierly fashion they fade away in dignity, thereby setting an example of service before self. But times are now changing and the rot is beginning to infect the armed forces as well.

The question that needs asking is whether the so-called seniority principle is enhancing or eroding national security. Can leadership and, above all, task accomplishment even at the cost of the ultimate sacrifice, survive amidst such a culture? Does not this imply mediocrity and sycophancy in the services? Ironically, this cycle is also self-perpetuating. Those that aspire to reach senior-level appointments by benefiting from the system do not expect their subordinates to be fearless and upright professionals but meek ‘yes men’ and, sadly, there are many with ambitions larger than competence only too happy to fall in line because the service lists tell them that their time will come. Except that no one pauses to ponder that in war there is no prize for the runner-up.

Why, then, all this fuss about seniority? Should not the usefulness of seniority be limited to arriving at a panel? To those who say that all things being equal seniority must prevail one must put this poser. When looking for qualities of leadership, performance over some four decades in peace and war, moral courage and exposure to different assignments, which would add to experience in future employability, can you ever find two individuals in any panel and call them equal? To argue, as some have done recently, that every commander is fit to don the mantle of chief is to underestimate the diverse demands on a chief as both leader of his force and as adviser and partner to the civilian leadership. Many an otherwise brilliant field commander may well fall short of these qualities. That is why employability for each assignment needs to be weighed carefully during the selection process. And that is why in Western democracies the last mile selection process sometimes involves going well down the seniority list, with no slight being perceived by those passed.

Unfortunately this is a classic case of choosing a soft and lazy option over the more rigorous one of finding the right man for the right task. But such a system will only work if we have faith in the integrity of our system and are not swayed by parochial interests. We need to have the courage of our conviction to draw up panels for senior level appointments from service lists based purely on the criteria of merit and employability. Let the final selection be based purely on the principle of most meritorious and not that of seniority. The former meets the needs of national security while the latter is to meet the needs of an individual over a service.

To give the selected individual wider national acceptability it would be appropriate, once the appointments committee of the cabinet has selected a candidate for the post of commander or chief, that such individuals face the defence committee of Parliament for final endorsement. One sees some benefits to this approach. First, in matters of such crucial appointments there would be unanimity across the political spectrum. Second, lobbying, which has permeated even the services, would become redundant and, lastly, should there be any skeletons in any contender’s cupboard, a transparent system will bring them to the fore and save the institution of the military any embarrassment before damage is done.

The armed forces and, in particular, the army, have been through a harrowing time. If we are to emerge stronger rather than weaker from recent happenings, there is work to be done and since the weaknesses are well known the need of the hour is total transparency in the system and in the manner of selections to senior service appointments of commanders and chiefs. Not only will this give the services the benefit of capable leadership, but even more importantly, the message down the line will clearly be one of reward based on professionalism, leadership and sacrifice; the very qualities that our officer cadre needs to display if we are to face the formidable challenges to our national security.

If this awakening follows the trauma of the past few months, the price may still have been worth it. The alternative is frightening and being watched keenly across our northern and western borders.

The author is a retired air marshal of the Indian Air Force

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jun 2012 06:22

If that happens then it will be even worse and more like TSP!

rajrang · Post by **rajrang** » 10 Jun 2012 11:49

pragnya wrote:Indian Army’s Gorkha Troops

Can the Nepalese Gorkhas simply cross the border into India and seek employment in the Indian Army similar to thousands of other Nepalese who work in India?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Jun 2012 14:19

yes and Bhutanese as well.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 10 Jun 2012 16:49

During 1814 Anglo Nepal war, after the British at Dehra Dun killed most of his men, Nepali General Balbhadra Kunwar came out of his fort with 70 soldiers Kukhris drawn. In recognition of his bravery, he was allowed free passage. Balbhadra and his men went to the court of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and were the nucleus of the “Lahore Regiment”. Other Gurkhas feeling betrayed by the Nepal King’s treaty with the British also joined the Lahore Regiment.

In 1823 Battle of Nowshera, it was the Gurkha’s Lahore Regiment led by Balbhadra Kunwar and Maharaja Ranjit Singh personally that made the final charge in the face of withering jezail fire up the hill swarming with Durrani Lashkar and drove them away. Balbhadra Kunwar is supposed to have died in that battle. The British raised a memorial in Balbhadra Kunwar's memorial.

In 1837, it was the Gurkhas that held the fort of Jamrud against the Durranis, saving the frontier. Hari Singh Nalwa died in that battle. After the Anglo Sikh wars, the Gurkhas in Sikh service were amalgamated into the Bengal Army.

All Frontier Force units raised had a mixed composition of Gurkhas, Sikhs and Pathans. Gurkhas held the NW Frontier from 1820's till 1947 - more than a 100 years.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 11 Jun 2012 12:08

Unique saga of a soldier who Manipur loves

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/unique-saga- ... picks=true

"The militants were inside the room and rather than allow them to pick and choose and fire us at will I had to intervene. I had to enter the room. I broke the door open and I got a burst of AK-47. The first burst came on my shoulder. I got three burst here and that guy corrected himself and he got a shot on my chest. One of them hurl a grenade, I don't know how I saw the grenade in the darkness but instantly I kicked the grenade and the grenade blew on my leg, taking a portion of my leg away," he says.
This could have been every soldier's tale. But what he did next is what has brought him here today. Although wounded mortally in the gun fight, Colonel Pillay decided to evacuate and save the two children hit in the crossfire instead of his own.
"The nearest hospital was about 6 hours. There's no way the children would have survived. I think I knew that in me that I had 5 minutes of life left in me and said I can hang on extra bit. So I told the pilot not to worry me," he says.

peter · Post by **peter** » 11 Jun 2012 13:42

Tatra-truck-case-BEML-chief-Natarajan-suspended

I wonder:
a) What would the likes of Chacko say now who maintained nothing unusual going on at BEML.

b) Would anyone ask Antony/Defence Secy that what the hell was being investigated for two years after Antony received Azad's letter in 2009?

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 11 Jun 2012 13:46

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 020001.cms

Tatra truck case: BEML chief Natarajan suspended

PTI | Jun 11, 2012, 12.59PM IST

The defence ministry on Monday suspended BEML chief VRS Natarajan in connection with the Tatra case.

NEW DELHI: BEML chief VRS Natarajan was on Monday suspended by the defence ministry in connection with the Tatra case on a CBI recommendation after former Army chief Gen V K Singh levelled allegations that he was offered Rs 14 crore bribe to clear a deal for 600 trucks.

The move comes a few days after the defence ministry issued a show cause notice to the BEML Chief for slapping a defamation notice against Gen V K Singh without its permission.

"The government has put the CMD of BEML V R S Natarajan under suspension following a recommendation by the CBI that he should be kept away from the post to ensure fair investigation. The CBI is currently investigating into various charges against Natarajan," defence ministry spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said here.

"The charge of CMD has been given to P Dwarkanath, the senior most functional Director in BEML," he said.

On June 6, the defence ministry had sought an explanation from BEML chief VRS Natarajan for serving a legal notice on former Army chief Gen V K Singh demanding an apology for his alleged defamatory statements against the defence PSU on the Tatra truck issue.

"Defence ministry categorically denies giving permission to BEML chief to serve a legal notice for filing a defamation suit against Gen V K Singh," defence ministry spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said in New Delhi.

He said the ministry has "asked Natarajan to explain as to why he made such a statement to the media."

Gen Singh, who retired on May 31 after holding the post of the Army chief for over two years, had alleged in March that he was offered a Rs 14 crore bribe by a former officer to clear supply of a tranche of 600 Tatra trucks from BEML. CBI is investigating the case.

On June 1, a day after Gen Singh retired from office, the BEML chief had held a press conference in Bangalore asking the former Army chief to apologise for alleged "defamatory" statements against the company and its products.

"The former Army chief has made some allegations against BEML. As the CEO of the company, I deny them as absolutely false, motivated, damaging and defamatory", Natarajan had said.

However, the former Army chief had refused to apologise to BEML saying that he had just stated the facts.

I note that the media did not report the fact that MOD had denied Natarajan any such permission. Its only now that this worthy has been suspended that the media has bothered to report this fact, even though they went to town on the fact of his slapping this notice.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 11 Jun 2012 13:46

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 020001.cms

Tatra truck case: BEML chief Natarajan suspended

PTI | Jun 11, 2012, 12.59PM IST

The defence ministry on Monday suspended BEML chief VRS Natarajan in connection with the Tatra case.

NEW DELHI: BEML chief VRS Natarajan was on Monday suspended by the defence ministry in connection with the Tatra case on a CBI recommendation after former Army chief Gen V K Singh levelled allegations that he was offered Rs 14 crore bribe to clear a deal for 600 trucks.

The move comes a few days after the defence ministry issued a show cause notice to the BEML Chief for slapping a defamation notice against Gen V K Singh without its permission.

"The government has put the CMD of BEML V R S Natarajan under suspension following a recommendation by the CBI that he should be kept away from the post to ensure fair investigation. The CBI is currently investigating into various charges against Natarajan," defence ministry spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said here.

"The charge of CMD has been given to P Dwarkanath, the senior most functional Director in BEML," he said.

On June 6, the defence ministry had sought an explanation from BEML chief VRS Natarajan for serving a legal notice on former Army chief Gen V K Singh demanding an apology for his alleged defamatory statements against the defence PSU on the Tatra truck issue.

"Defence ministry categorically denies giving permission to BEML chief to serve a legal notice for filing a defamation suit against Gen V K Singh," defence ministry spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said in New Delhi.

He said the ministry has "asked Natarajan to explain as to why he made such a statement to the media."

Gen Singh, who retired on May 31 after holding the post of the Army chief for over two years, had alleged in March that he was offered a Rs 14 crore bribe by a former officer to clear supply of a tranche of 600 Tatra trucks from BEML. CBI is investigating the case.

On June 1, a day after Gen Singh retired from office, the BEML chief had held a press conference in Bangalore asking the former Army chief to apologise for alleged "defamatory" statements against the company and its products.

"The former Army chief has made some allegations against BEML. As the CEO of the company, I deny them as absolutely false, motivated, damaging and defamatory", Natarajan had said.

However, the former Army chief had refused to apologise to BEML saying that he had just stated the facts.

I note that the media did not report the fact that MOD had denied Natarajan any such permission. Its only now that this worthy has been suspended that the media has bothered to report this fact, even though they went to town on the fact of his slapping this notice.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Jun 2012 14:11

Good Riddence , he should have been suspended when the Tatra fiasco came out but then better late then never.

The fact he remains CMD for 15 years is itself a very suspicious thing in government appointments.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 11 Jun 2012 15:12

Former army chief documents life, views in memoir

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 12 Jun 2012 09:28

Apologies for this OT post
BEML employees celebrate Natarajan’s suspension

The news of suspension of BEML CMD VRS Natarajan on Monday sparked celebrations among the company’s employees. While many distributed sweets, others welcomed the news by bursting crackers.

BEML employees were seen distributing sweets and bursting crackers at BEML Soudha here. At the company’s rail coach unit, employees burst crackers and raised slogans against Natarajan.
Welcoming the suspension, Krishna Reddy of BEML Employees’ Union said, “All the employees are happy. We were waiting for this moment.”

Expressing happiness over the CBI’s recommendation to suspend Natarajan, KS Periyaswamy, an advocate and a shareholder of BEML said, “It is the victory of the media which wrote about the illegal activities of Natarajan. I request the CBI to arrest Natarajan immediately and dismiss BR Subramanya Reddy, chief general manager (legal) for manipulating records.”

N Hanumanthappa, president of All India SC, ST, BC and Minorities Welfare Associations, termed the government’s action as late. “Natarajan has harassed many employees of the BEML, especially those from SC, ST and BC communities. We have been demanding that the government transfer him to some other company and probe into his illegal and corrupt activities,” he said.
TS Aswathnarayana, president of BEML Ex-employees’ Sangha, said the suspension proved that ultimately the good prevailed over the bad. He said the government should have suspended Natarajan long ago in the interest of BEML, one of the Navaratna companies.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 12 Jun 2012 13:27

Didn't know whether to post here or in the SF forum, but here's a video I found about a visit made by two civilian types to the boot camp at CIJW, Vairengte.

Yensoy maadi.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 13 Jun 2012 19:44

In 1837, it was the Gurkhas that held the fort of Jamrud against the Durranis, saving the frontier. Hari Singh Nalwa died in that battle.

Hari Singh Nalwa didn't died in a battle. He had created a chain of 50+ forts from Peshawar all the way to the Khyber pass., a rider could dash from one fort to another.

Hari Singh Nalwa was the governor of Peshawar and he would inspect these forts from time to time, one day when he was inspecting and getting fixed the outer wall of the Jamrud fort a sniper shot him and injured him. He was safely carried inside the fort.

In the fort he got infection and then fever. Hari Singh knew that as long as he is alive Pathans won't dare to attack the fort. so he told his soldiers to take him outside so that pathans can see him (from the mountaintops) and even after he passes away leave his body in full view., until Maharaja Ranjit singh gets there with his full force. So that's what happened., his body was outside in the middle of the fort in full view (sitting position) to the pathans, Ranjit Singh got there in three days and rest is history.

wig · Post by **wig** » 15 Jun 2012 21:57

Dalbir Singh Suhag to head Eastern Army Command

The government has cleared the appointment of Lt-General Dalbir Singh Suhag, on whom previous Army chief General V K Singh had imposed a discipline and vigilance (DV) promotion ban, as the new chief of the Eastern Army Command in Kolkata. This comes after new Army chief Gen Bikram Singh on June 8 lifted the DV ban on Lt-Gen Suhag, the current three Corps commander at Dimapur who is tipped to take over the force from him in August 2014.

Gen Bikram Singh lifted the DV ban on Lt-Gen Suhag after accepting his explanation to the showcause censure notice imposed on him by Gen V K Singh just days before retirement on May 31. Lt-Gen Suhag's name had earlier been send to the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet (ACC) in May as the proposed successor to the then Eastern Army commander Gen Bikram Singh but it had got derailed due to the DV ban. In his showcause censure notice, Gen V K Singh had charged Lt-Gen Suhag for "abdicating responsibility" in handling a botched operation by an intelligence and surveillance unit under him in "a most unprofessional and lackadaisical manner".

But coming as it did in the backdrop of Gen V K Singh's known aversion to the Bikram-Suhag line of succession, it was seen to be a result of the factional feuds engulfing the Army. Even the defence ministry had wanted to ascertain whether Gen V K Singh's action involved "any bias or vindictiveness" since Lt-Gen Suhag was not given any chance to respond to the showcause notice before being placed in the DV ban category.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 153578.cms

sum · Post by **sum** » 15 Jun 2012 22:29

The government has cleared the appointment of Lt-General Dalbir Singh Suhag, on whom previous Army chief General V K Singh had imposed a discipline and vigilance (DV) promotion ban, as the new chief of the Eastern Army Command in Kolkata. This comes after new Army chief Gen Bikram Singh on June 8 lifted the DV ban on Lt-Gen Suhag, the current three Corps commander at Dimapur who is tipped to take over the force from him in August 2014.

Govt and the new chief sure seem to move fast when it comes to the case of Gen.Suhag!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2012 00:00

Will they also respond with same speed to TSP firing across the LOC in Kashmir?
Or is it a case of crony generalship?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Jun 2012 15:43

Secret MI funds usage records are being dug up to fix VKS - expect to hear something on this soon.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Jun 2012 00:16

shyamd wrote:Secret MI funds usage records are being dug up to fix VKS - expect to hear something on this soon.

For over decade , we have speculated here that in the end game, as stooge of foreign power centres ,Congress will try best to undermine national security institutions . We see it hapenning now . For India to survive as we know of , Congress and its RNI leadership have to go the Poqa way .

srai · Post by **srai** » 17 Jun 2012 00:42

In the IA, it would seem "Singh is king"

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 17 Jun 2012 10:27

Army Chief meets Omar, discusses security issues

The new Army Chief, General Bikram Singh, who is on a two-day visit to Jammu & Kashmir, met Chief Minister Omar Abdullah on Saturday and discussed security matters.

“Various matters relating to the prevailing security situation in the State were discussed during the meeting,” an official spokesman said.

General Singh was accompanied by Northern Command Chief Lt. Gen. K. T. Parnaik and General Officer Commanding of 15 Corps Lt. Gen. Om Prakash.

General Singh had met Governor N. N. Vohra on Friday evening and discussed matters relating to the internal and external security situation.

“The Governor and Chief of Army Staff discussed various matters. Other issues having a bearing on security management were also reviewed,” a Raj Bhavan spokesman said.

General Singh is on his maiden visit to J&K after taking over as Army Chief on May 31.

He will visit the forward areas along the Line of Control in the Kashmir Valley where he will interact with the jawans and officers of the Army. - PTI

Well stage is being set for important Announcement on AFSPA.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Jun 2012 12:47

Didn’t kill Andrabi, but I know who did: Avtar in application

Avtar Singh, the former Indian Army officer accused of killing Kashmiri human rights activist Jaleel Andrabi, had sneaked in the US after his plea for asylum was denied in Canada, where he had fled from India in 2003.

Singh killed his wife and two sons and grievously injured his another son, before turning the gun on himself last week in Fresno County in California.

Canadian authorities had let Indian officials know Singh was living in Canada in 2004, according to court documents. The Singhs lived in Canada with relatives for two years and applied for asylum, but their claim was denied, according to Singh’s US asylum documents provided to Associated Press by his immigration consultant.

After his cover was blown, Singh and his family crossed illegally into the US and settled in Fresno County, where Singh filed an asylum case for himself in 2011.

“He told me, ‘My job in India was to eliminate terrorists who were against the Indian government. I was good at that, they never found the bodies when I did it,’” said Stephens, Singh’s immigration consultant.

In his asylum application, Singh said he did not kill Kashmiri activist Jaleel Andrabi, but knew who did. “I am being made a scapegoat,” he said, adding that he would be killed if he returned to India.

This Jaleel Andrabi must have been a very powerful person if it caused a IA officer to be hounded out of the country and fear for his life if within the country!!!

Not sure if he as even charge-sheeted but sad to see all DDM outlets calling him a "murderer"/fugitive etc when there were only accusations and not even a formal warrant against him.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 17 Jun 2012 20:12

peter wrote:Tatra-truck-case-BEML-chief-Natarajan-suspended

I wonder:
a) What would the likes of Chacko say now who maintained nothing unusual going on at BEML.

b) Would anyone ask Antony/Defence Secy that what the hell was being investigated for two years after Antony received Azad's letter in 2009?

Peter : it is better for Chacko to lie underground as he has been doing (mercifully) for the last few weeks. Any comment like this might make the man surface. And you know what a disaster that would be for the forum.

Re : Anthony and the Defence Secretary : both of them deserve six of the best, for their innumerable acts of highly-questionable nature in the last year or so. Anthony's carefully-nurtured facade of "Mr. Clean" has been in tatters for quite some time.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Jun 2012 20:54

Pak fires crisis along the border

The tension started on Monday when Pakistani forces violated the ceasefire at Krishna Ghati sub-sector of Poonch sector in which a BSF jawan was injured. He succumbed to wounds on Wednesday night.

Pakistan forces on Wednesday afternoon, however, upped the ante and opened indiscriminate firing on Indian positions causing injuries to two soldiers, one of whom later succumbed.

The Indian Army immediately reached the Pakistani army through the hotline asking for restraint to de-escalate the situation. “Instead of responding to the Indian message, Pakistanis repeated the firing, injuring another jawan. Seemingly unsatisfied with Indian restraint, Pakistan continued to fire (on Indian posts).On the night of June 15 our posts again came under small arms fire from the Pakistan side,” Col Palta said.

The Indian Army regretted that all attempts towards de-escalation of the situation and the resumption of routine life for civilians in the area, have received a negative response.

Around 102 ceasefire violations along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir have taken place since 2010. Around 44 cases of ceasefire violations along the LoC in Jammu and Kashmir were registered in 2010. Around 51 cases of ceasefire violations were reported in 2011.

India and Pakistan declared cease-fire on all the three borders -- 772Km LoC, 192 Km International border and 122 Km Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL) in Siachen – in 2003.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 18 Jun 2012 23:32

Thx to Sushupti (2G thread)

Rs 28 cr for paintings made by Defence Minister's wife! Now that's a stroke of genius - http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/defe ... witterfeed

28 crores for 8 paintings! Apparently, Elizabeth Antony has come from nowhere to become the priciest painter in India today.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 18 Jun 2012 23:53

come onn

do not question the Saint

she did donate 3.5 lakhs

this like US senators getting paid in preferred stock and IPOs

sigh

on a different note wonder what triggered this belated journalism??

lots of back stabbing going to occur

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Jun 2012 08:25

^^ Truely a saint onlee. Just ensure nothing is done overtly.

What next? Painting by his children to be bought by PMO for xx crore to adorn their buildings?

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 19 Jun 2012 09:39

I trust Antony more than any Prakash from India Today.

Though she herself chose to keep mum on the price tag, sources said that the AAI paid a mind-boggling sum of Rs. 28 crore for the paintings

and how much "sources" paid him? I am sure it won't be like that.. one fine morning he just woke up and thought to go to AAI and investigate about paintings they have bought!

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 19 Jun 2012 13:05

My response to Peter two days ago :

Re : Anthony and the Defence Secretary : both of them deserve six of the best, for their innumerable acts of highly-questionable nature in the last year or so. Anthony's carefully-nurtured facade of "Mr. Clean" has been in tatters for quite some time.

Well, since writing this, Anthony's holy image has been blown sky high ! Talk about cosmic forces in operation.
I have never believed in all that baloney about "Saint" Anthony.

Expect more revelations about this self-proclaimed Saint.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/defe ... 01258.html