LCA News and Discussions

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jun 2012 23:55

So what other milestone tests are still to be completed on LCA?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jun 2012 03:01

I think we have a whole lot of weapons firing that needs to be done:

A->A
A->G
A->S

plus, all these in the BVR mode.

we have to see how MAWS works on LCA., and especially with dummy missile chasing LCA, that is programmed to deviate once fuse proximity is success, meaning LCA could not survive such attacks.

chaffs and flares, other jamming scenarios.

I think whole lot of operational needs if one could think in IAF terms

srai · Post by **srai** » 06 Jun 2012 04:32

ramana wrote:So what other milestone tests are still to be completed on LCA?

As per previous news reports, the LCA still had tests related to AoA, Mach, G-loads, Spin along with weapons-avionics integration for guided launch.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 06 Jun 2012 05:59

considerable amount of a->a and a->g has been performed. The thing left IMO are the wake penetration tests, high AoA and BVR testing with Derby. CCM firing with R-73 has been done for a long time since 2007 with radar during the 2010-2011 timeframe

Nowadays details are hard to come by on the accomplishments, dont know the reason for the silence from ADA folks

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 06 Jun 2012 11:13

srai wrote: Even Rafale has that explosive cord in the middle:

SaiK wrote:so, polycarbonate can be shredded to pieces by explosion. can we infer that?

According to the notes I've seen on Rafale, they use this particular seat model from Martin Baker:
http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ej ... afale.aspx
According to the specifications page, the canopy is not jettisoned and there is a "pyrotechnic canopy cutting system" for handling the canopy.

I got interested in what this pyrotechnic canopy cutting system is about, so I did a little googling and found:
Per Dassault's page on their pyrotechnic division:

The canopy cutting is ensured by a centralized device which allows the pilot(driver) to eject very quickly by avoiding the shocks of percussion of window. It weakens the Plexiglas of the canopy in a fraction of a second before the seat is ejected. This cutting system, which optimizes the trajectory of debris, is used on Mirage F1, Mirage-2000, Alpha Jet and Super Etendard. Thanks to the Rafale, a new generation was developed to adapt itself to more resistant canopy.

and from this other press release from Dassault we have:

The canopy cutting system is a unique device that literally cut the canopy in the fraction of a second
before the seat is ejected. This means that a pilot can eject safely without having to worry about
hitting the canopy. The cutting system is standard on the Mirage F1, Mirage 2000, Alpha Jet and
Super Etendard military aircraft. On the Rafale, a new generation pyrotechnic system is used to cut
a hardest canopy

The same page goes on to say this as well:

Initiators - A complete selection of 1A/1W/5mn initiators is available according to:
the pyrotechnical effect required: flame, shock or pressure wave;

Not entirely certain if they blow up the canopy or melt it to cut it.

Did some more research and found this interview:
http://tv.dassault-aviation.com/web/c-2 ... ities.html
The gent interviewed at around 2:30 mentions their canopy cutting system and you can see it in action pretty clearly. Seems to neatly separate in the middle when it goes off.

srai · Post by **srai** » 06 Jun 2012 11:19

^^^

Someone had posted this earlier:

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 06 Jun 2012 23:00

got this from the ada website

http://www.ada.gov.in/awards.htm

2007 213
2008 191
2009 281
2010 238
2011 251
June-2012 111

Wonder if we will get past 2009/2011 numbers in 2012, we are already half way and havent hit even half the numbers

ofcourse 09/11 had Aero India so a sizeable chunk of flights would have been display ones but yeh abdul maange more(YAMM)

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 08 Jun 2012 05:59

From Aero India 2011 on LCA ejection seat system:

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 08 Jun 2012 06:56

And seems like that cord is coming from HEMRL, Pune

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 08 Jun 2012 20:16

Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1874 Test Flights successfully. (05-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-211,PV5-36,LSP3-53,LSP4-56,LSP5-89,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1870 Test Flights successfully. (04-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-210,PV5-36,LSP3-53,LSP4-56,LSP5-87,LSP7-3,NP1-2)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jun 2012 20:16

yeah! need more pics of np1

srai · Post by **srai** » 09 Jun 2012 08:20

suryag wrote:Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1874 Test Flights successfully. (05-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-211,PV5-36,LSP3-53,LSP4-56,LSP5-89,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1870 Test Flights successfully. (04-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-210,PV5-36,LSP3-53,LSP4-56,LSP5-87,LSP7-3,NP1-2)

Has the NP1 flown with undercarriage retracted?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 11 Jun 2012 23:52

Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1878 Test Flights successfully. (07-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-212,PV5-36,LSP3-55,LSP4-56,LSP5-90,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1874 Test Flights successfully. (05-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-211,PV5-36,LSP3-53,LSP4-56,LSP5-89,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

Wondering why the PV5 hasnt been flying for a long time

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 12 Jun 2012 01:38

PV5 is the trainer ... I don't mean that it is the reason for it to not fly ... but may be the focus is elsewhere now, i.e. complete IOC-2/FOC.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 12 Jun 2012 01:47

right IR, at some point of time there was a talk of a separate IOC for the trainer, so may be it is being dealt with differently or there is a testing resource crunch given IOC2 is higher prio

BTW what comprises IOC-2? wake penetration, full radar integration and AoA of 24-26 deg?

ADA folks please please update on the status. Also LSP8 was supposed to fly this month

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 12 Jun 2012 10:57

Also, isn't PV3, the test bed for the electronic countermeasures suite?

And I was under the impression that PV6 was for the AoA improvement?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 12 Jun 2012 10:58

rajanb wrote: And I was under the impression that PV6 was for the AoA improvement?

That's the LSP 6. It's supposed to be fitted with a spin-recovery chute.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 12 Jun 2012 11:19

Oops sorry. LSP6 was wot I meant. Thanks.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 12 Jun 2012 21:03

Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1881 Test Flights successfully. (11-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-214,PV5-36,LSP3-55,LSP4-56,LSP5-91,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1878 Test Flights successfully. (07-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-212,PV5-36,LSP3-55,LSP4-56,LSP5-90,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

IIRC it was the jugaadu PV1 which was supposed to carry EW suite, dont know where it is right now.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 14 Jun 2012 23:07

Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1887 Test Flights successfully. (14-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-216,PV5-36,LSP3-56,LSP4-56,LSP5-94,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1881 Test Flights successfully. (11-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-214,PV5-36,LSP3-55,LSP4-56,LSP5-91,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

Why doesnt LSP7 fly much given it has been three months since it first flew

srai · Post by **srai** » 15 Jun 2012 08:01

^^^

LSP-7 and 8 are production grade version for operational induction into the IAF. One can assume IAF is busy preparing crew and logistics necessary for squadron-like service.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 15 Jun 2012 10:24

suryag wrote:Why doesnt LSP7 fly much given it has been three months since it first flew

Probably going through some upgrade/changes

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 16 Jun 2012 01:07

srai wrote:^^^

LSP-7 and 8 are production grade version for operational induction into the IAF. One can assume IAF is busy preparing crew and logistics necessary for squadron-like service.

What should be the sequential upgrades post FOC, IAF need to undertake to make the development and absorption of the fighter abilities in a proper way.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Jun 2012 01:20

are we jumping the gun talking about production grade versions before even analyzing various reports out there whats and hows of weapons integration and other platform integration systems? no information yet on these.. and we might throw some spanner here, and the whole world thinks it is all ready to go in squadrons... and we want to avoid that aam strategy.

srai · Post by **srai** » 16 Jun 2012 02:49

keshavchandra wrote:
srai wrote:^^^

LSP-7 and 8 are production grade version for operational induction into the IAF. One can assume IAF is busy preparing crew and logistics necessary for squadron-like service.
What should be the sequential upgrades post FOC, IAF need to undertake to make the development and absorption of the fighter abilities in a proper way.

FOC is not just about completing R&D. It means operationally ready -- both R&D (as agreed upon) and squadron operationalization completed. It requires building of support infrastructures (facilities, parts inventory, supply vendors, weapon stocks, field manuals, etc.) along with cadre of trained pilots and technicians. It's a 2 to 3 year process at the minimum.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 18 Jun 2012 23:43

Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1891 Test Flights successfully. (16-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-348,LSP1-74,LSP2-217,PV5-36,LSP3-57,LSP4-56,LSP5-95,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1887 Test Flights successfully. (14-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-347,LSP1-74,LSP2-216,PV5-36,LSP3-56,LSP4-56,LSP5-94,LSP7-3,NP1-3)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Jun 2012 02:22

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19085

Three of these military jets have been taking off from forward Air Force bases to pound the area with a variety of armaments-from precision guided bombs to conventional bombs weighing up to 500 kg.

super de dooper!

cool!

These exercises constitute the most important phase ahead of their formal induction by the Indian Air Force and are intended to ensure that the bombs are released and hit targets on the ground with accuracy. The IAF will acquire 40 of these fighters with the first squadron set to be positioned in Tamil Nadu.

I am sure other missile firing tests should be included as well.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Jun 2012 02:34

how many times will they test this

?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Jun 2012 02:48

Till IAF has done all their mission objectives.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Jun 2012 03:16

yeah i understand that but IIRC we had some trials in pokhran three months ago, may be some tests failed then(or may be different speed profiles), nevertheless no news on Tejas program is making jingos unhappy

Btw for any foreign vendor are all these tests performed(drop tank jettison over different profiles, all A2g/A2A delivery over different profiles) or are their claims taken on face value?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 19 Jun 2012 03:31

They have to do these tests. These are important. Let them do their thing. When it's ready it will make it into IAF kitty and IAF will be confident on how to use it well. Most new platforms go through a 5-6 year qualification after induction. Look at history of Rafale and Eurofighter.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jun 2012 08:00

it seems to me most rafale and EF weapons and even radar mode integration took place after they entered IOC service with the AF. the tornado ADV also apparently flew for a few years with ballast in the nose until the foxhunter radar was fixed.

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 19 Jun 2012 08:14

SaiK wrote:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19085

Three of these military jets have been taking off from forward Air Force bases to pound the area with a variety of armaments-from precision guided bombs to conventional bombs weighing up to 500 kg.
super de dooper!

cool!

These exercises constitute the most important phase ahead of their formal induction by the Indian Air Force and are intended to ensure that the bombs are released and hit targets on the ground with accuracy. The IAF will acquire 40 of these fighters with the first squadron set to be positioned in Tamil Nadu.
I am sure other missile firing tests should be included as well.

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 20 Jun 2012 09:24

No pictures this time around?

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 20 Jun 2012 12:34

Tejas aircraft in final trials at Pokhran

First saw a positive response from media

. It is not HAL but defence spokesperson Col S D Goswami. There is mixup by the Editor it is not FOC but IOC-2.

JAISALMER: Pokhran, which witnessed India's nuclear might, is now witnessing a different scene: indigenous Tejas fighter jets are demonstrating their fire power.

Tejas, indeginously built single-seat, single-engine, lightweight, high-agility supersonic fighter aircraft, is currently undergoing flight trials and firing tests here since Sunday in preparation for its operational clearance.

The current trial of Tejas in Chandan, Pokhran firing ranges of Jaisalmer district, is part of the final operational trials (FOC) and will continue for two days. The Tejas is planned to be cleared for operational service by late mid 2013. The light combat aircraft design and development programme is being led by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) of the department of defence with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) as the prime industrial contractor.

"Three of these Tejas aircraft have been taking off from forward Air Force bases to pound on an area with a variety of armaments - from precision guided bombs to conventional bombs weighing up to 500 kg during the tests. These exercises constitute the most important phase ahead of the aircraft's formal induction by the Indian Air Force and are intended to ensure that the bombs are released and hit targets on the ground with accuracy," an official source said. Teams of specialists from DRDO and HAL have already reached the firing range to conduct those tests.

"The IAF officially accepted its first Tejas fighter on March 21, 2011. The Tejas is planned to be cleared for operational service by this year end. The initial weapon tests including bombing begun at Pokhran firing range last year. Tejas' final operational clearance has reportedly been delayed till mid-2013 or later," defence spokesperson Col S D Goswami said.

A total of 40 Tejas LCA Mk 1 aircraft are on order. There are plans to order LCA Mk 2 aircraft for 10 more squadrons (about 180 total aircraft) after completing production of LCA Mk 1, he said.

"Tejas is a major modern Light combat aircraft that have been contracted for induction into IAF.The cost of procurement of the Tejas light combat aircraft is about Rs 8,861 crore. The design and manufacture of modern combat aircraft involves development of very high and sophisticated technology skills. HAL is manufacturing the light combat aircraft for IAF," he added.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Jun 2012 12:35

Singha wrote:it seems to me most rafale and EF weapons and even radar mode integration took place after they entered IOC service with the AF. the tornado ADV also apparently flew for a few years with ballast in the nose until the foxhunter radar was fixed.

there was a joke going around british military circles that the tornado adv radar was code named "blue circle"
there had already been "blue fox" etc., for other fighter radars (seaharrier i think)
and blue circle was a brand of cement

vic · Post by **vic** » 20 Jun 2012 15:29

Austin wrote:AW&ST on Indian program on AMCA , Stealth and UCAV , Tejas Mk3

Big Plans

NRao wrote:Aerospace Forum Sweden 2012: India invests heavily in unmanned technologies

Reading from the above two articles it seems:-

There is a LCA Mark-3 with stealth features planned for the future. But this is the first time one has heard about it. Are they confusing it with LCA Mark-2??

Can this be LCA MArk-3 ? http://livefist.blogspot.in/2012/03/hel ... fexpo.html

There is definitely Rustom-1, then Rustam-2 piston twin engined and Rustum-Turboprop which may be called Rustom-3. Is the High altitude surveillance UAV = Rustom Turboprop? Or we are going to have a turbofan based Rustom

Lastly UCAV might be AURA in the category of X-45/47 with design looking like Neuron

A bigger indigenous AWACS has always been considered as a next step and bi-static radar detection of steath aircraft may be logical next step.

Though Pulse jets & Sunlight powered HALE seems really far out

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 20 Jun 2012 21:33

NRao wrote:Aerospace Forum Sweden 2012: India invests heavily in unmanned technologies

This piece in the article caught my eye - interesting stuff and still not sure where and how this tech would be used.

"Aero-structures technology is also receiving attention such as bio-mimetic materials for nano air vehicles as well as materials that will self-heal or allow changes in shape in flight."

According to my pawn wala - two years ago when he said that this was going to be the next focus in his Chai Dukaan

, i almost did not believe as it seemed too ambitious and stuff of fiction. Seems like things are aimed in the right direction - and such initiatives do take time.

vic · Post by **vic** » 21 Jun 2012 08:37

Guys, is LCA Mark-3 stealthy version true or DDM. Is seems to have caused no excitement at least on BRF here

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 21 Jun 2012 09:05

vic wrote:Guys, is LCA Mark-3 stealthy version true or DDM. Is seems to have caused no excitement at least on BRF here

Deep down every one is little disappointed what has been going on with Tejas Program , i remember has a kid watching on DD1 roll out of LCA TD-1 and for some reason it has stuck to my mind and after mind blogging years , it still in trials . Excitement will be there when in 2014-15 we see Tejas MK-2 take flight and Tejas MK-3 by 2017-18 . and speed in the production rate, current rate is slower then ferrari F12berlinetta rate of production .