Indian Autos Thread

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 14 Jun 2012 13:26

now you are searching for bikes after going around searching for women

just joking

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 15 Jun 2012 08:55

The Mahindra XUV500 is launched in Australia

It has received an ANCAP 4 star rating which is a great result for the first iteration. The detailed report

Oz is a mature and knowledgeable SUV market. All the best to Mahindra and wish it does well although an automatic transmission option will make their job easier.

With only a manual transmission and the price point, the XUV may fare well in the rural market and unlike in the Indian and even European scene, where it is mostly used a a people mover, in Oz it will actually be made to work hard including frequently towing laden trailers and earn its XUV tag. Hope the engineering, plastics and importantly the suspension pass muster.

So far Mahindra have not indicated the XUV's towing capacity, and this for a market where a great majority of vehicles have a towbar fitted.

I just hope they refined the vehicle to the point your teeth don't chatter & the gear shift does not re-arrange your knuckles when the engine is idling.

Mahindra is actually the 2nd Indian auto company to launch in Australia. Many years ago, TATA was the first and completely botched up their TATAMOBILE launch. There were many reasons for the debacle including the product which simply disintegrated before your eyes in a years time. TATA ultimately withdrew completely from the market.Then, they did not own Jaguar and LandRover.

Lets hope Mahindra has learned from TATA and does better.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jun 2012 10:58

M&M auto transmission for Scorpio is sourced from a australian co imo.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 16 Jun 2012 11:09

Maruti has overtaken Tata as the 3rd largest utility vehicle category with the launch of Ertiga. Tata's India product line is going downhill despite having decent product in their portfolio. Their products are coming of age
a) Nano
b) Vista/Manza
c) Sumo Gold.

but their components suppliers, QC at their plants and after sales service should catch up big time if they have to survive in the market. The quality niggles were acceptable when the prices were low, spare parts cheap but now their entire product line up has become expensive to buy and maintain losing their VFM tag. Indica/Indigos with the CR4 engines is expensive to maintain unlike their workhorse NA and TDI engines.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 16 Jun 2012 12:50

rahulm wrote:The Mahindra XUV500 is launched in Australia

It has received an ANCAP 4 star rating which is a great result for the first iteration. The detailed report

Oz is a mature and knowledgeable SUV market. All the best to Mahindra and wish it does well although an automatic transmission option will make their job easier.

With only a manual transmission and the price point, the XUV may fare well in the rural market and unlike in the Indian and even European scene, where it is mostly used a a people mover, in Oz it will actually be made to work hard including frequently towing laden trailers and earn its XUV tag. Hope the engineering, plastics and importantly the suspension pass muster.

So far Mahindra have not indicated the XUV's towing capacity, and this for a market where a great majority of vehicles have a towbar fitted.

I just hope they refined the vehicle to the point your teeth don't chatter & the gear shift does not re-arrange your knuckles when the engine is idling.

Mahindra is actually the 2nd Indian auto company to launch in Australia. Many years ago, TATA was the first and completely botched up their TATAMOBILE launch. There were many reasons for the debacle including the product which simply disintegrated before your eyes in a years time. TATA ultimately withdrew completely from the market.Then, they did not own Jaguar and LandRover.

Lets hope Mahindra has learned from TATA and does better.

Very interesting to note that Kia ranks third in terms of crash rating. They have slowly moved up the value chain. From a cheap brand name to a middle class brand name, I wonder they havent made inroads into India yet. Their 16,000$ sedan offering in the US and the 6000 $ super cheap sedan would click in India.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jun 2012 12:55

Yogi-G why does Hyundai need to bring Kia to India.

1) Indian Manufactured Car- Taxes through Customs, ED, VAT, Life Tax , Without the brilliant ED proposed by UNion Minister account for partly 45-60% of cars Built in India.
2) Imported SKD/CKD come at 60% CD + ED+VAT +Life tax,
3) Fully imported car 110 CD + 12.36%CVD+ 4% SAD + local VAT + Life TAX.

You cannot sell a car cheap in India. Only one with the IQ level of Sagrika Ghosh can say that cars in India are subsidised.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Jun 2012 08:16

arjun tank-esque amphib capability from ktm duke 200.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Jun 2012 17:47

afaik cars can also idle or move through water but +ve pressure is needed on throttle to maintain the exhaust going out. I am not sure if they can start in water when presumably water has already entered the exhaust.

this technology might sell well in flood prone areas like WB, bihar and assam

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 19 Jun 2012 08:04

Here it is, the Mahindra XUV reviewed First drive: Australia’s cheapest 7-seat SUV

I thought I was the only one who found the smell of cabin plastics and trim in Mahindra vehicles offensive. All new cars have a smell but the Mahindra is special. Surprising when it seems an easy fix is available.

As I mentioned before the review, the lack of an automatic is going to hurt sales in an automatic crazy country. The auto is nearly 2 years away by when it will be time for a new model. Why did Mahindra choose to ignore 80-90% of the target market?

Suspension and noise insulation also need more work.

A test vehicle developed engine problems. Mahindra needs to pay hard attention to QC/QA.

As a plus, Mahindra have thrown the whole options sink at the vehicle.

Niggles will have to be ironed out and customer service will have to be top notch for this beast to be visible above the established herd and then start moving ahead.

Mahindra will not get be able to get away with with what it can with Indian customers.

Right now, in the review, it sits at the bottom of the pecking order but above the Chinese vehicles.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jun 2012 08:07

I am surprised they offer no AT given the scorpio AT is sourced from australia!
http://www.autopundit.com/mahindra/mahi ... eiled.html

The transmission technology and components on the new Scorpio have been sourced from an Australian firm named Drive train Systems International (DSI). The Six speed transmission features built-in intelligent drive modes to suit the driving conditions and an anti-roll back mechanism while in the ‘Drive’ mode.

The Scorpio Automatic also features the Brake Transmission Shift Interlock (BTSI) technology that does not allow the gear lever to be released out of the ‘Park’ position unless the driver applies the brake

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 19 Jun 2012 08:29

Many Oz Buyers will push the XUV hard. I hope the engine and particularly the suspension hold up.

Styling is always personal and subjective. The Australian market is more tuned to European, muted, less in your face styling whereas Indian buyers and cars want to be more Khan'ish with in your face stickers and shiny bits and bobs of Chrome. The look at me, I am here kind of stuff.

Did the SangYong stable not have a more refined diesel which Mahindra could have learned from?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jun 2012 09:02

TV was showing the mahindra navistar struck factory in chakan, pune last night. output is around 10 trucks a day at present.
seemed to be surgically neat.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 19 Jun 2012 10:00

rahulm wrote:Indian buyers and cars want to be more Khan'ish with in your face stickers and shiny bits and bobs of Chrome. The look at me, I am here kind of stuff.

I don't know about all Indian buyers, but certainly the Punju variety likes flashy crap like chrome, big chunky designs like XUV, loud colours - mostly farmer mentality - people who have got big money by selling their land to developers.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jun 2012 10:12

indians both in desh and bidesh are brand conscious in making a statement. chinese are too. bmw/audi/merc will always outsell the likes of volvo/lexus/acura even if they are better in instances.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 22 Jun 2012 16:58

pandyan wrote:I had posted in the ind-aus thread few days back about xuv500 lauch. I honestly dont understand what the title means

The Indian is summoned, sir
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/the-in ... 6387997415

[/quote]

That the auzzie maharajahs have called up the indian wares dealer to present his wares which are inspected and described in the rest of the article.

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 22 Jun 2012 21:49

Can anybody comment as to the pros and cons of installing a bull bar or nudge in the front on a Toyota Innova for driving in Delhi ?

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 24 Jun 2012 20:25

Nothing to do with Autos but driving in India...

Last October I was in Mumbai and was shocked to notice that everyone in the city from taxis, to rickshaws to cars and to bikes, drives around with high beams ON

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Jun 2012 22:33

Anishns-> Not everyone, some 85% in India, especially within city limits on roads without dividers, its a real pain in the A**.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Jun 2012 23:22

I have had bullets in the past. It is a common sight in my village. The last one I had to sell because I wasnt visiting desh for a while and parents kept complaining that its not starting and don't want to see it rot. It was great to ride but you have to constantly look after it. It is for that issue, when I r2i'd, I did not choose a CL500 from RE and instead went for the home made Honda CBR. The CBRs great. Takes any abuse and have not given me any problem whatsoever. The pickups great, I always leave traffic behind even when I am not pushing for the frontlines of the traffic stop. The fat wide tyres absorb all potholes. The ABS option helps in making tight stops on gravel roads. I road it a few times to Bangalore and even to Erode once (1000 km trip total) without issues. I could do 120 all day long and even short bursts of 150 on empty stretches.

IMO, RE needs to up the reliability factor by several notches to compete with foreign bikes that are sure to compete for that price point of under 2 lakhs for beginner type mini super bikes.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Jun 2012 23:24

anishns wrote:Nothing to do with Autos but driving in India...

Last October I was in Mumbai and was shocked to notice that everyone in the city from taxis, to rickshaws to cars and to bikes, drives around with high beams ON

welcome to India. It is like these people do not even know that there is a lo beam and that's what they are supposed to be on when they are in city lights, vehicles oncoming and in front of you.

So they got a job, put in a car loan, boom they are now a car driver. Nothing about learning how to properly drive it.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 25 Jun 2012 06:33

roads are dug up or big potholes are allowed to deepen over months and years. There are no warning flashing lamps to mark the perimeter of road construction zones in most small towns (and even bigger cities). So people die at night, especially those on two wheels. The news article will mention the fact that they hit something in the dark.

So a high beam becomes a mental crutch that makes the driver feel s/he can see an obstacle a long way off. Purely a lack of confidence in the consistency of road infrastructure inside cities. No one can enforce this without push back.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 25 Jun 2012 10:20

^^My policy: What you can't see can't be driven on. In other words, I maintain my speed to stop within the visible blacktop at any given time.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 25 Jun 2012 10:33

hnair wrote:So a high beam becomes a mental crutch that makes the driver feel s/he can see an obstacle a long way off. Purely a lack of confidence in the consistency of road infrastructure inside cities. No one can enforce this without push back.

That maybe true out of the cities. But inside the city, there are lights on the road and there really is no need for a hi beam to spot potholes etc. Besides, it is really useless when the other guy is also hi beaming on you..when you can't see any damn thing because of the glare, what is the point in hi beam.

I do think that some of these new drivers don't really know that they are supposed to go on lo beam on certain conditions and supposed to put on hi beam on certain conditions. I would not be surprised if they have never ever turned it to lo beam ever. It is always on hi beam.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Jun 2012 10:42

Problem is may Indian drivers probably on Bikes and cars don't know about Road rules and simple physics, geometry etc, forget High beam low beam, see the number that take a right turn from right hand corner for the road, a vehicle coming on the other side of the road they are turning too will have no space to go. See how they race and brake hard before a signal.

Seems to me that there is something lacking in mass education, media etc, where standing in line and following rules and being helpful to others is considered as being idoitic.

I think having regular checks for Licenses by cops with FInes and sizure of Vehicles along with putting the law in RTO's that people need to pass the electronic tests on thier own and good driving tests where alll the road use knowledge is tested is the key for giving people a License. Again it should be road use knowledge, not making people do 8 in reverse.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 25 Jun 2012 10:50

Gus wrote: That maybe true out of the cities. But inside the city, there are lights on the road and there really is no need for a hi beam to spot potholes etc.

sounds good by its own, but do add the following:

hnair wrote:roads are dug up or big potholes are allowed to deepen over months and years. There are no warning flashing lamps to mark the perimeter of road construction zones in most small towns (and even bigger cities). So people die at night, especially those on two wheels. The news article will mention the fact that they hit something in the dark.

Driving on a rainy night in an Indian urban road is a nightmare, despite all the sodium lamps. There are no reflectors marking dead-end walls or even posts that are left in the lanes after the last widening, for example.

So hi-beam as a mental crutch is not going to go away, until there is confidence in the safety aspects over a few years.

habal · Post by **habal** » 25 Jun 2012 10:51

Lack of sports or field activities mean most Indians especially urban dwellers do not get chance to exercise their coordination and reflexes and that shows them up in very poor light especially when they are driving. Also another key feature is misplaced aggression when none is required.

Community exercises are needed to develop a sense of community and a sense of society and a semblance of coordination with another human being on the road, being someone we have never met but can move in sync with everyone else. Sometimes I feel muslims often make better social drivers because of their indulging in a communal exercise of bowing down and getting up together which gets them in sync with their fellow community. After visiting oil droplet, became acutely aware of this.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 25 Jun 2012 15:41

High beam issue is not limited to highways/poorly lit roads but is a common sight wherever you go in India including well lit roads of metros. High beam inherently beams more light and hence the default option/preferred choice. Most people are unaware what high/low beam stands for, for them high beam means just more light. It is irritating to drive at night since almost all oncoming cars use high beam. When I was a new driver, I used to think that it's my moral responsibility to correct my brethren. I used to flash my headlights to register my displeasure but till date barring 1-2 instances, none bothered to lower their lights but instead most sped up thinking that you want to negotiate the narrow patch of road/blockade before them.

Now it's no more flashing but "Have some high beam sir" only.

Cheers....

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 27 Jun 2012 03:13

You can have world class infrastructure but, without basic civic sense and maintenance all that is worth naught.
I have noticed that cabbies and rickshaws flaunt the rules the most, because they have a deal going on with the pandus, which encourages them to do whatever they want with impunity.

All other drivers break the law because the cabbies / rickshaws do it. IMHO this enforcement should start with the cabbies by simply suspending their licenses and then extending it to others. Its not that Indians can't follow rules, the moment they step out of India they get in line

its only when they are home they feel that they can get away with murder.

Around the same time when I was in Mumbai, the pandu brigade was clamping down on drunk driving and the fine was to spend a night in jail. According to some friends that was very effective.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 27 Jun 2012 09:20

In Delhi, the low floor buses have created nuisance on roads. Erratic driving and cutting lanes has become the norm for these buses. Earlier the DTC buses lacked power steering which made them a lot predictable but now the contracted drivers drive the huge buses as if they are driving a car.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Jun 2012 09:35

same here in BLR. plus being rear engined, higher T:W and quieter means you dont hear any noise as like a mighty ship they creep up silent and fast beside you.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 27 Jun 2012 14:22

People don't care about fines and are happy to pay. Decrepit systems means there is no possibility to penalise repeat offenders with a higher penalty.

On the MPEW people are routinely driving modern cars on modern roads with Neanderthal driving skills at 140 kmph. The concept of maintaining a safety bubble around you, knowledge about braking distance (3 second rule - double this n wet conditions), situational awareness (continuously scanning rear view mirrors), anticipating traffic conditions is non existent because firstly the driver training & then the enforcement is poor.

Blind spot check over the shoulder, what are you talking about? I have very good car and rear view mirror shows everything. You can check for yourself. See. No blind spot vindspot

Anyway, my nose is in front so I can change 3 lanes in less than a metre, people behind are at fault if they slam into me.

If all argument fails, then the fall back is "I have a Benz, Skoda, VW etc) its a very safe car" so I am safe. I even had an IA Armoured Regt. tank commander who was driving me in his car say ' Yaar, I am a T72 Tank commander, yeh car kya cheez hai, I know how to drive".

Belief in one's own driving ability beggars belief.

Driver training teaches use of horn to deafen and use of headlights to blind others.

There is a popular myth that used to go around and still does that An indian who drives in Indian conditions can drive anywhere in the world. Wrong.

S/he better not drive anywhere else in the world (save a few countries) unless s/he has gone through an extensive learner driver program to unlearn existing skills and learn new ones.

I have seen innumerable Schumacher's (male and female) from desh who landed overseas and had tears in theirs eyes after failing to qualify the licence tests after numerous attempts with the refrain that s/he had been driving for so many years in India so they sort of have an entitlement to a licence.

They have to be gently reminded that a driving licence is a privilege not a right (and their high and mighty connections from desh don't work here) and even if you don't value your life (having given it to fate and destiny after having the palm read by a reputable astrologer or having had a divine vision that you will live a rewarding life of 100 years) you must care for others on the road who do not have such divine and astrological protection and not just for your own family and relatives. Painful to see but they do come around.

The Hindu Coimbatore edition of 2 days ago had a news item where cases of drunken driving have decreased dramatically after penalty for the offence was increased to a stint in jail. Since this is working, the same penalty should be applied for jumping red lights and driving on the wrong side of the road. It would be a good beginning.

Enforcement must always be able to produce an environment of compliance consistently. You can't just achieve an environment that produces compliance for a point in time (safety awareness week for example) and then forget about it. You've got to be able to do it again and again forever. Self regulation does not work. (Note: Exceptions may apply.E.& O.E) Khan banks taught us this lesson clearly.

After all, in the words of the one and only Mr. Jaffery, ghost of the kicks not listening to the talks

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 30 Jun 2012 23:38

Overheard some people talking, one of them was giving chaiwallah news that Car companies are planning to increase their prices heavily within 10 days.

Any truth in it?

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 01 Jul 2012 00:41

rahulm wrote:After all, in the words of the one and only Mr. Jaffery, ghost of the kicks not listening to the talks

bhy phor ingrezisation of this phamous muhawra

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 02 Jul 2012 11:54

Saw the programme "Mega Factories: Tata Nano". Nicely done about the development and production line.

The showed that the two cylinders of the engine work "in-phase", ie both get to the DC at the same instant. Why is it so? That is like a bigger single cylinder engine, right? I thought they should be 180 degree apart!! Does anyone have any idea?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 03 Jul 2012 09:26

bus drivers in cities are a stressed lot. They have to make their times no matter what. I usually let them cut in by slowing down, even if I am abreast. Already lost one side mirror

rahulm - even I failed my first test and this is after more than a lakh kms here. But it was a breeze driving in the UK where a lot of my massa white colleagues could not drive (they have mostly stick shift and the roundabouts and 'wrong side' of the road lol).

vina · Post by **vina** » 03 Jul 2012 10:27

Most likely a cost cutting move. Since the pistons move together, they need single fuel injection system and a single ignition system. Possibly simpler crankshaft design. Tradeoff is vibration and odd engine nois

Well, the Nano has a balance shaft precisely for that. The Nano's engine is actually pretty smooth, if you have driven it, you will immediately know it. In fact smoother than the 3 cylinder 800 derivatives found in the Alto etc and better than the 3 cylinder in the Hyundai Eon I think.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 03 Jul 2012 15:11

vina wrote:
Most likely a cost cutting move. Since the pistons move together, they need single fuel injection system and a single ignition system. Possibly simpler crankshaft design. Tradeoff is vibration and odd engine nois
Well, the Nano has a balance shaft precisely for that. The Nano's engine is actually pretty smooth, if you have driven it, you will immediately know it. In fact smoother than the 3 cylinder 800 derivatives found in the Alto etc and better than the 3 cylinder in the Hyundai Eon I think.

My neighbour's nano was quiet initially on but sounds like a 80's tempo now.

vina · Post by **vina** » 04 Jul 2012 11:00

I have been on a alto k10 3 cylinder; it is a gem of an engine.

The 3 cylinder K10 derivatives (the K10 on Swift/Ritz are 4 cylinder) on the Alto and A-Star are okay. The 4 cylinder ones are great. Notice, the K10 series has a design, where the crank and the cylinder bore are "offset" . The other engine that uses such an offset cylinder bore is the Honda Unicorn's engine.

The 3 cylinder derived from the Original Maruti 800 engine (with MPFI , EGR etc added) is what I was referring to. The Nano's engine is far smoother than that one. Not to mention, that original 800 engine had a crappy gearbox. The Nano's gearbox is slick.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 05 Jul 2012 15:08

Nissan Duster -- An SUV in India without 7 seats is like a suggestion box in Tiananmen Square.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 06 Jul 2012 16:57

So I read that diesel motorcycles are next. Expect to see Gov placing a huge tax on that as well.