Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

[nits]

Heavy Artillery battalion moved to LoC as Pak shells Poonch posts again

Pakistani troops today violated ceasefire for the fourth time in the last five days and pounded Indian posts along the Line of Control (LoC) with mortar shells in Poonch district, promoting the Army to move an artillery battalion to forward posts in Krishna Ghati (KG) sector.

Reliable sources told The Tribune that an artillery battalion has been moved from Mendhar to effectively check possible infiltration attempts by militants from across the border besides dealing with frequent “misadventures of a hostile neighbour.”

[Aditya_V]

I trust Antony more than any Prakash from India Today.

Though she herself chose to keep mum on the price tag, sources said that the AAI paid a mind-boggling sum of Rs. 28 crore for the paintings

and how much "sources" paid him? I am sure it won't be like that.. one fine morning he just woke up and thought to go to AAI and investigate about paintings they have bought!

Dont worry the Best part is that his spouse made a INR 3.5 Lacs donation as per the link to the Cancer trust.

But then again we are all fools, all this 28 crore, INR 3.5 Lacs for a man who a few months ago made a Declaration that the Net Worth of him and his immediate family is..........


Yes you guessed - INR 1.92 Lacs. Talk about honesty.

[nelson]

OT- FWIW

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 7743204907

Let us keep this out of here.

[Sanku]

OT- FWIW

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 7743204907

Let us keep this out of here.

Didnt this one rumor start from India Today?

[ramana]

Folsk the above posts are not related to Indian Army News and Discussions. There are many threads to discuss 2G scams etc. Please go there.

Thanks, ramana

[chaanakya]

India plans Army drill with China

Defence ties between India and China are set to gain momentum with New Delhi mulling joint exercises with Beijing next year after the just concluded naval drills in Shanghai held after a gap of six years.

India is planning to propose joint military exercises with China which will also include Army-to-Army exercises, sources said here.



The Armies of the two Asian countries last held counter insurgency and counter terrorism wargames codenamed “Hand-in-Hand” in 2009 in Belgaum in India and prior to that in China in 2007.

India and China had agreed to enhance defence exchanges and communications for better understanding and mutual trust during the fourth round of Annual Defence Dialogue (ADD) held here in December last year after a tumultuous two years for military ties.

New Delhi had suspended military exchanges with China in August 2010 after it had refused to grant permission to a senior Indian Army Commander to proceed on an official trip to Beijing.

During the exercises, Eastern Naval Commander Vice-Admiral Anil Chopra held talks with Commander of the Chinese East Sea fleet Vice-Admiral Su Zhiquian to strengthen ties between the two countries in areas such as counter-piracy operations, Navy officials said here.

They said during the stay of the warships there, INS Shivalik held passex exercises with its Chinese counterpart PLAN Maanshan during which they had cross deck helicopter landings and other basic exercises.

The Navy also threw open its two warships Shivalik and Shakti for visitors and over 1,500 people including 60 PLA Navy officers to see the two vessels.

[chaanakya]

Two Indian companies in fray for over Rs. 10,000 cr army deal

In a major boost to the private sector, defence ministry has shortlisted two indigenous agencies including Larsen and Toubro, Tata Power and HCL and the state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) for the over Rs. 10,000 crore tactical communication project of the army.

Two companies,
including a private sector consortium for the Tactical Communication System (TCS) project of the Army, have been down-selected, Defence Ministry sources said here.

They will now submit a Detailed Project Report (DPR) on whose basis further steps will be taken to select the final winner, they said.

It was a significant step towards fulfilling army's requirement to replace its older radio network system to handle communication requirements in battle zone, they said.

TCS is a wide network deployed to provide secure communications infrastructure and network enabled operating environment to tactical forces in a battle zone.

Commenting on the Defence Ministry decision to select the two companies, the Confederation of Indian Industries (CII) said, "Army has selected a private sector Special Purpose Company consisting of Larsen & Toubro, Tata Power SED and M/s HCL Infosys Ltd as a designated agency (DA) for the prestigious TCS project. Both DAs are supposed to make the prototype and out of two the lowest bidder will be given the final project."

"This selection is an outcome of rigorous rounds of scrutiny and years of concerted efforts put in by the Corps of Signals, army, Defence Ministry and Indian Industry together," it added.

The TCS project would be the first programme under the 'Make' clause in the Defence Procurement procedure (DPP). Under 'Make' programmes, Government provides 80% funding for the development phase and rest comes from the industry.

[chaanakya]

Indian, Russian troops to hold joint counter-terrorism exercise near China, Mongolia

NEW DELHI: Indian Army personnel will participate in a wargame with their Russian counterparts in a joint counter-terrorism exercise to be held close to Moscow's boundary with China and Mongolia in August.

The fourth round of army-to-army exercise, codenamed Indra 2012, will involve over 250 troops from both sides and will be conducted at a training range in eastern Russia, close to Mongolia-China border, Army officials said.


The two sides have also decided to make INDRA series of joint army exercises an annual affair which will be held alternatively in India and Russia, they said.

India and Russia have so far conducted three rounds of INDRA exercises. The first exercise was carried out in 2005 in Rajasthan, followed by Prshkov in Russia. The third exercise was conducted at Chaubattia in Kumaon hills some time ago.

[chaanakya]

Indo-Pak flag-meeting to be held on Poonch LoC

Well Pakistan has developed enough Confidence therefore the moot point would be for all wannabe pissniks whether CBM and Siachen is still required to further boost Paki confidence

India and Pakistan will hold a 'brigade commander' level flag meeting along the LoC in Poonch on Saturday to discuss the recent ceasefire violations by the latter. "Brigade Commanders's flag meeting is being held tomorrow at Chakan-Da-Bagh LoC point in Poonch sector at 11 am. Pak has agreed to the meeting", a senior Army officer said.

The Indian Army had sent a hotline message to Pakistan Army and called for a Brigade commander-level flag meeting to discuss the issues of increasing incidents of firing and ceasefire violations in Poonch sector on June 19.

The issue is serious in view of the fact that two jawans have been killed and four others injured in direct firing on them by Pakistan troops, unseen in the past, the officer said.

Usually, a commandant-level flag meeting is held on the LoC to sort out the differences, but this time we have called for Brigade Commander-level meeting, he said.

Earlier, Pakistan had cancelled Commandant (Col) level meeting on Chakan-Da-Bagh crossing point in Poonch on June 16 without assigning any reason.

Pakistani troops this time directly fired on Army troops guarding the borderline in Poonch unlike in the past when they used to target posts, the official said adding it was a serious issue.

Pakistani troops resorted to five ceasefire violations and heavy firing incidents since June 11 to 16 and no firing was resorted to by Pakistan since then.

The trade via the Chakan-Da-Bagh crossing point remains suspended,awaiting de-escalation of the situation in the Krishna Ghati Sector

[chaanakya]

Defence Ministry clears over 10,000 crores for air defence missiles for army

New Delhi: The Defence Ministry today cleared several acquisition projects of the armed forces worth over Rs. 20,000 crore including regiments of Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missiles (QRSAMs) for the Army.

At a meeting of the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), IAF's proposals worth over Rs. 8500 crore for procuring 14 Dornier aircraft and setting up a communication network were also cleared, sources said in New Delhi.

They said that after the success of the pilot project of the Air Force Network (AFNET), it will be implemented as a nation-wide network at the cost of Rs. 7000 crore.


Proposals of the Navy and the Coast Guard to procure 30 mm guns for their warships were also approved in the meeting presided by Defence Minister A K Antony, they said.

The DAC approved procurement of regiments QRSAMs for the Army Air Defence, of which three will be inducted during the ongoing 12th Defence Plan.

Approval for these missiles comes against the backdrop of former Army Chief General V K Singh's letter to the Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in which he had highlighted that 97 per cent of the equipment with the AAD was obsolete.

The Army will now issue a global tender for the new missiles which will replace the Russian-origin Kvadrat missiles.

[tsarkar]

Cross post from the Pakistani thread, since the initial discussion was on this thread -

Indian, Pakistani Commanders to meet in bid to end bloody LoC skirmishes Highly placed military sources told The Hindu that the fighting began after two Indian soldiers were beheaded in an attack on a forward position by a jihadist unit. Indian special forces responded by targeting a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers.

There was some angst in the forum at that time why India doesnt respond. We could have blasted with our Arty guns, but the payback required a personal visit. We just skip the publicity and straining our vocal chords.

[merlin]

Just one forward post targetted?

[shyamd]

Spoke to a someone, he said BSF add mirch masala to the story usually but just those 2 sectors (poonch and krishna Ghatti) are a problem because both sides have aggressive commanders in those sectors.

[Sanku]

Spoke to a someone, he said BSF add mirch masala to the story usually but just those 2 sectors (poonch and krishna Ghatti) are a problem because both sides have aggressive commanders in those sectors.

Yes, bloody aggressive on BOTH sides. To solve only one side has to be less aggressive as a CBM India should put Arundhati Roy as a commander, overseen by some on from GCC.

That would be a really chankian case, and would remove all chance of foreign interference by others in J&K if India was to lift a tiny little finger to protect itself -- since the people in question would have direct view and can see that India is indeed not doing any little thing to save itself.

In such a manner we will proactively foreclose any chance of UN intervention.

Now clap for me please.

[shyamd]

Clap clap - hindu's are weaaak onleee

----------------
Its obvious what the Paki's are trying to do - they are desperate that it is high summer and only few such incidents have taken place. So they have started a fire on the border - landmines blew up and fence got damaged. They provide covering fire for terrorists to cross. Good to see we are winning.

[sum]

Spoke to a someone, he said BSF add mirch masala to the story usually but just those 2 sectors (poonch and krishna Ghatti) are a problem because both sides have aggressive commanders in those sectors.

Does it mean that other sectors are quiet because the commanders are "weak" on our side?

Also, how can loosing 3 jawans due to hostile enemy action within 3-4 days be termed mirch-masala? Are we supposed to downplay even the deaths of our jawans as a CBM?

[vasu raya]

Heartening news, fear of retribution in the enemy brings in some sense of responsibility in their criminal use of a rifle

we should cover these ceasefire violations with an UAV aerial video recording including the terrorists they are trying to protect

and for all the paki claims about dead woman and children, they should bring the bodies, if at all there are bodies for these flag meetings so post mortem can be done on the time of death and the cause of it

[shyamd]

Does it mean that other sectors are quiet because the commanders are "weak" on our side?

Also, how can loosing 3 jawans due to hostile enemy action within 3-4 days be termed mirch-masala? Are we supposed to downplay even the deaths of our jawans as a CBM?

Its a fair question, the answer is no, in most sectors both sides have a decent relationship with each other and if there is a problem its resolved quickly - ample evidence of it. In the article it says the same.

Mirch masala is in reference to the raid by Indian SF - could have just been ordinary jawans.

[Sanku]

Does it mean that other sectors are quiet because the commanders are "weak" on our side?

Also, how can loosing 3 jawans due to hostile enemy action within 3-4 days be termed mirch-masala? Are we supposed to downplay even the deaths of our jawans as a CBM?

Its a fair question, the answer is no, in most sectors both sides have a decent relationship with each other and if there is a problem its resolved quickly - ample evidence of it. In the article it says the same.

Mirch masala is in reference to the raid by Indian SF - could have just been ordinary jawans.

I say this is bull shit of highest order, to hide pakistani behavior in general and their strategic plans in particular (choice of the hot sectors being because of need to pass terrorists through that sector) -- ASPERSIONS on serving Indian officers and soldiers putting their life on line is made.

This is despicable. Now probably the Jawans who died would also be mocked as being too gung ho and running into pakistani fire directly instead of cowering in holes like decent non aggressive people.

Unless ShyamD can prove that the officers posted were not thorough professionals doing their job, he should have the modicum of good sense to withdraw his diatribe against Indian forces.

[vasu raya]

^^^
looking at the post count of them thats more like sleeper cells on the phorum, sorry couldn't resist

[Surya]

Sigh MUSAG has now escaped the hot air forum

[shyamd]

I say this is bull shit of highest order, to hide pakistani behavior in general and their strategic plans in particular (choice of the hot sectors being because of need to pass terrorists through that sector) -- ASPERSIONS on serving Indian officers and soldiers putting their life on line is made.

Lol! Saying BSF based sources to a story usually adds mirch masala to a story = casting aspersions on ALL serving officers? Sanku ji, you are making another desperate attempt here to twist things that I say. This is the second cheap and dirty trick you have pulled after saying last time that I was "misrepresenting the views of other posters" and you know what happened the last time you pulled that trick. That same person who I supposedly "misrepresented" their views came out and confirmed what I said was correct.

Seriously, why are you so desperate to malign me?

[nachiket]

Spoke to a someone, he said BSF add mirch masala to the story usually but just those 2 sectors (poonch and krishna Ghatti) are a problem because both sides have aggressive commanders in those sectors.

So you are basically saying that your unnamed source is telling the truth and The Hindu's unnamed sources are adding mirch masala?

[nachiket]

Seriously, why are you so desperate to malign me?

Maybe because he is desperate to call out BS?

[ticky]

Deputy Director General, Discipline and Vigilance under corruption probe
Fall out of the DV ban against Suhag by VKS?
http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/a ... 16547.html

[Virupaksha]

people should learn to differentiate between shyamd and his sources.

[Surya]

people should learn to differentiate between shyamd and his sources.

there is one???

[Virupaksha]

people should learn to differentiate between shyamd and his sources.

there is one???

Strictly speaking in the recent days, I am observing that they are coming to be one and the same. They give a peek into how a faction of the high society thinks.

BR shouldnt lose Shyamd, the journo.

[Sanku]

I say this is bull shit of highest order, to hide pakistani behavior in general and their strategic plans in particular (choice of the hot sectors being because of need to pass terrorists through that sector) -- ASPERSIONS on serving Indian officers and soldiers putting their life on line is made.

Lol! Saying BSF based sources to a story usually adds mirch masala to a story = casting aspersions on ALL serving officers? Sanku ji, you are making another desperate attempt here to twist things that I say. This is the second cheap and dirty trick you have pulled after saying last time that I was "misrepresenting the views of other posters" and you know what happened the last time you pulled that trick. That same person who I supposedly "misrepresented" their views came out and confirmed what I said was correct.

Seriously, why are you so desperate to malign me?

You are now back peddling Sir, this is what you said

Spoke to a someone, he said BSF add mirch masala to the story usually but just those 2 sectors (poonch and krishna Ghatti) are a problem because both sides have aggressive commanders in those sectors.

saying that BSF adds mirch masla is bad enough. (You couuld have said the Hindu source added mirch masala) -- so you went and denigrated the entire BSF.

And if that was not bad enough -- you claimed that the cross border firing is a issue of individual officers being gung ho -- instead of saying the reality viz " the pakis are nasty creature can not be trusted and will always probe Indian defences" you are giving a free chit to Pakis, and throwing mud of IA officers.

Let me ask you, why are you so desperate to malign those in IA who resist and give Pakis are free chit?

In contrast this is what is really happening on ground.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 559915.ece

“For all the good optics on India-Pakistan relations,” says Sushant Sareen, an expert at the Institute for Defence and Strategic Analysis, “the reality is you have one army deployed on hair-trigger alert, expecting infiltrating jihadists, and another on hair-trigger alert looking for gaps in its adversary’s defences. It is no surprise at all the clashes like these take place.”

“From our point of view,” a senior military official in Poonch said, “the Pakistanis were testing our resolve. We responded; not with a sledgehammer, perhaps, but with a large hammer.”

Even though a ceasefire went into force along the Line of Control in 2002, small-scale skirmishes have continued unabated.

There follows in above article a long list of attacks by Pakis on LOC for various reasons (but according to ShyamD all fault of aggressive commanders onlee nothing to do with Pak or Paki army)

[kmc_chacko]

what happen to Arjun Mk II trails ? does anyone know ?

[shyamd]

So you are basically saying that your unnamed source is telling the truth and The Hindu's unnamed sources are adding mirch masala?

Anyone who reads that can easily see what I said is that BSF "usually" add mirch masala to a story - i.e. that you should take it into consideration and that individual who told me that is asking us to take it into consideration.

[shyamd]

Seriously, why are you so desperate to malign me?

Maybe because he is desperate to call out BS?

Which bit is BS?

[Sanku]

So you are basically saying that your unnamed source is telling the truth and The Hindu's unnamed sources are adding mirch masala?

Anyone who reads that can easily see what I said is that BSF "usually" add mirch masala to a story - that you should take it into consideration. If I'm not mistaken Praveen Swami used to write articles about "hindu terrorism" and plenty of BR got pissed off and were happy to question sources.

Well you should definitely have framed your statement better, as I said, question P Swami != saying BSF bull shits. First is valid second not.

Since you are consistently avoiding the fact that your statement tried to down play typical Paki perfidious behavior as a local problem due error on the part of hot-headed commanders on both sides (thus adding TSPA == IA equal equal for good measure) --

I take it you are apologetic about that mistake on your part.

In which case I hope you will come out and clearly say what Sushant Sareen said. That these flare-ups are typical of Pakis trying to push in Jihadis and test the resolve of IA?

Some amount of redemption could be achieved.

[shyamd]

Well you should definitely have framed your statement better, as I said, question P Swami != saying BSF bull shits. First is valid second not.

Since you are consistently avoiding the fact that your statement tried to down play typical Paki perfidious behavior as a local problem due error on the part of hot-headed commanders on both sides (thus adding TSPA == IA equal equal for good measure) --

The person who I spoke to said that and this person speaks to high level mil, intel and govt officials all the time. He is not saying what happened was untrue - he is simply saying that BSF officers tend to spice up a story - that in no way says BSF are unprofessional or attacking serving officers as you put it.

I take it you are apologetic about that mistake on your part.

In which case I hope you will come out and clearly say what Sushant Sareen said. That these flare-ups are typical of Pakis trying to push in Jihadis and test the resolve of IA?

Some amount of redemption could be achieved.

lol! Quit putting words in my mouth - I am not apologetic, I relayed an opinion of someone and thats it, if you don't believe it or dislike it you are welcome to have your opinion and I don't have a problem with that. KG and Poonch are sectors that are Hot and have been hot for a long time - even Praven Swami article highlights that while both sides were exchanging mithai for eid in the other sectors, they were exchanging fire in Pooch/KG sector.

Where have I disputed that Paki's weren't trying to smuggle terrorists in???

As for the flare ups - I spoke to a retired officer, he said JJ Singh authorised sniper teams in the KG sector in response to Paki sniping at our boys. How much of this is ever reported? Same for the Indian SF operation on a Paki forward base. We only get tiny parts of a story.

Earlier I was saying that Indian SF were conducting reconnaissance inside PRC and we cross into PRC territory as much as they cross into ours - some on BR refused to believe that!! There is a presumption that we are somewhat weak - probably because Indian journo's only talk about what other side is doing - as it causes more of a stir and more readership.

[vishvak]

in response to Paki sniping at our boys. How much of this is ever reported

What is there to be reported when it is clearly a response. No one is doing any favor by not reporting and no one is scoring any additional points if reported as 'action' when clearly it is a reaction.

It should be noticeable that Indian defense has capability to make all barbarians talk like secular, even feign secularism at its borders and in talks. Such is a power of brave, or in Hindi, veer(y)ata.

[Sanku]

. KG and Poonch are sectors that are Hot and have been hot for a long time - .

So now you are saying that the sectors are hot and have been for a long time? Eh where was this gyan when you were blaming local commanders for the actions?

I dont need to put words in your mouth, you have put both your feet in it.

Let me show you once again your attempt to white wash Paki actions, for which though you are clearly not apologetic, but are now back peddling once caught.

Spoke to a someone, he said BSF add mirch masala to the story usually but just those 2 sectors (poonch and krishna Ghatti) are a problem because both sides have aggressive commanders in those sectors.

Clearly in that statement you blamed
1) Aggressive commanders
2) BSF for lying.

You did not say -- this is a typical Paki attempt in lines of what we have seen forever and ever.

Why didnt you? Why are you so eager to show up Pakis in good light and blame Indians instead?

[Karan M]

Pakistanis coming over to the Indian side, beheading Indians and then getting kicked = both sides have aggressive commanders, ergo they share responsibility? What BS.

There is ample evidence to suggest this sort of thing has been indulged in by Pakistanis in the past as well. The infamous LeT/jihadi commander who beheaded a MLI jawan and then received an award from terrorism sponsor Musharraf is also well known.

India retaliates to Pakistani adventurism, that is obvious.

How some folks can spin it otherwise is baffling

Other worthies are off to donate land in Siachen which they don't own in the guise of CBMs.

[Surya]

Sanku

I was having dinner with driver of a big shot Intel guy from GCC

He told me the most aggressive commanders were posted tpoonch since the 80s

Remember the quote from an IA officer

Compared to rest of loc poonch is barbaric

After lunch we open with machine guns at each other

[Sanku]

Sanku

I was having dinner with driver of a big shot Intel guy from GCC

He told me the most aggressive commanders were posted tpoonch since the 80s

Remember the quote from an IA officer

Compared to rest of loc poonch is barbaric

After lunch we open with machine guns at each other

[hnair]

I never tried my hand in Rupee-store intel p0rn, but what the heck:

I too was busy on Sunday. I met someone who said the Custodians of the two remaining Kashimiri Jihadis are in a crisis mode and has commandeered a truckload of NATO's Isabgol supply for their own use. Haqqanis are gathering outside KFC restaurant in strength and this time, they wont go back until Zardari's nugget is finger-licked. Kiyani is finished.

(Jedi Mahdi-wan-harami does it best, this padawan can only attempt)