Indian Education System

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Jun 2012 09:02

hnair wrote: One sees a few FB posts about this guy from the area, but very rare

It seems Newton never posed the question he answered and the techniques he used are well known?

Nevertheless its a magnificent achievement for the kid.

Singha wrote: a few of the founders of such revered cos if they donated 5% of their net worth we could have a massive world class science center here on the likes of any leading city worldwide...instead we are forced to soldier on with the decrepit and aeging Visveswaraya science center which clearly lacks funds. why is HAL satisfied with its unchanging museum and doesnt improve it to a much bigger facility featuring life scale models?

Singha saar, our most revered cos cannot even see the wisdom of doing products and funding proper research in their own companies, forget about doing it outside their companies. Total short sighted shopkeeper mentality. Even the big shot Bay Area VCs are just interested in sweatshop labour type cos in India but then they have a vested interested to keep their investments in new IP back in US. If you wanna trap a TFTA VC in an unguarded position, just tell him that India/China are overtaking US in innovation

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 25 Jun 2012 09:12

Germany is still sought after by mech engg types. A friend went on a sponsored study visa to Germany from his company and is back now with the same company. From what I talked with him (automobiles, production engg stuff) and compared with what I saw in my massa uni, the Germans are definitely ahead in some of these fields.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jun 2012 09:23

if something like this can be made in each indian state capital, starting with the 6 big metros, will be good for kids
http://www.science.edu.sg/Pages/SCBHome.aspx

I have deliberately not posted a link to Massa facility but to a fellow asiatic birader nation lest anyone say its not appropriate for our context!

VCs here seem mostly interested in web based service delivery/e-commerce cos rather than any nuts and bolts kind of stuff.
perhaps they feel risk is lower and cashout quicker.

revered founders are all into real estate investments in both rural and urban areas.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 25 Jun 2012 10:39

Some have been trying to prise open the revered founders' money bags and make them do goody stuff. Trouble is they all have their own pet obsession - feeding the guilt complex and doing stuff that makes them feel good. stock answer is "we would first give to poverty, then science".

Not just them, even the normal alumni, who are nostalgic. I have been banging my head against the wall at the attempts in conducting a mega-alumni meet of my old college sometime next year. No one is interested in discussing how to raise the brand profile during the meetup, by upgrading the current mentor-ship program (mentoring UG and PG final year projects by veterans in industry) that some humble visionaries with chip-design backgrounds have put in place. All are in "feed the poor" mode. It is cheap and is an instant fix for the middle-class and above in India

I got yelled at when I fumed saying "If the college's brand goes up, ALL kids gets benefits. but if we pay fee of a few needy kids, only we go to heaven". I sort of distanced myself from these and are working with hardier souls to get something going. The first award was recently declared for a rather nice project with practical implications, yet fairly advanced, by the jedi committee. Some folks amongst us are trying to get them published as a paper later on etc. All expenses are footed by those in alumni who felt happy to help the youngsters.

But the rest are keen only in airing silk-langotis, benis measurements ("bought a 7-beamer last month" type) and stuffing face at potlucks. pure balderdash. Guilt-complex morality born out of frequent "sub-saharan" psyops

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jun 2012 11:04

compared to the founders, some of the real estate developers in blr are investing into schools and colleges. ofcourse expensive schools not budget ones, but institutions that will last.
this seems to be a tradition in south india of wealthy families starting up schools/colleges....might be some form of tax shelter but has a social benefit as well.

rather than direct rice bag handouts, midday meal scheme in schools funding might work better term as it puts kids into school ...

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 25 Jun 2012 18:54

hnair wrote: One sees a few FB posts about this guy from the area, but very rare

FWIW - I think, there were a few posts about this in physics dhaga..
Eg:
here ...

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Jun 2012 19:57

Hnair, I feel what you say. Almost a decade ago when most in our batch were settling down in life following PhD + postdoc was trying to do a token donation to the madrassa and got zero response which was positive. Opinions heard were like India is rich so why give now to will give later in life when individual family responsibilities are all fulfilled, while the same folks were busy buying $600-800k homes. Asking amount was a token $1000 one time for folks in India and a few times that for NRIs from the batch. My point was that since higher education was essentially free for most of us from those days we should at least return the nominal cost in the least to our educational institutions. High Net worth folks can do more too voluntarily.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Jun 2012 20:28

Giving back to institutions in terms of financial aid is a foreign concept ( I am not saying it is bad) , it's just that our institutions during their inception never thought on those lines. Even today it's primarily the IITs which can claim to have an alumni network which is big and resourceful enough to actually make such efforts count. It's a chicken and egg problem , for one to give back to his/her institution there should exist a body which can utilize those funds judiciously but then latter implies that institution should enjoy a fair bit of autonomy in such matters in the first place apart from the IITs there are not many Govt. instis which enjoy autonomy in such matters the HoD of the dept. will have to run around the babus to just get a sanction for accepting aid , even there after a nice photo op of a big cheque being handed over it's highly likely that the funds will be deposited in a safe and key thrown away . Take for example the kind of effort put in by folks on BRF who wanted to make a donation to the IA , even after the funds were collected just handing them over to the IA was a big challenge in itself simply because IA never had any such process or system in place.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Jun 2012 20:35

negi, was talking about the brand value dilution threat madrassa onlee with all mechanisms for taking whatever is given by alumni, even tax deductible in the US. For my other UG alma mater there is no way to give as you mention, other than some sort of support for their yearly reunion activities. Not to mention it is highly politicized place, the reason I left part way from there. So I may not be too willing to give unless proper mechanism is in place.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 25 Jun 2012 21:18

negi wrote:Giving back to institutions in terms of financial aid is a foreign concept ( I am not saying it is bad) , it's just that our institutions during their inception never thought on those lines. Even today it's primarily the IITs which can claim to have an alumni network which is big and resourceful enough to actually make such efforts count. It's a chicken and egg problem , for one to give back to his/her institution there should exist a body which can utilize those funds judiciously but then latter implies that institution should enjoy a fair bit of autonomy in such matters in the first place apart from the IITs there are not many Govt. instis which enjoy autonomy in such matters the HoD of the dept. will have to run around the babus to just get a sanction for accepting aid , even there after a nice photo op of a big cheque being handed over it's highly likely that the funds will be deposited in a safe and key thrown away . Take for example the kind of effort put in by folks on BRF who wanted to make a donation to the IA , even after the funds were collected just handing them over to the IA was a big challenge in itself simply because IA never had any such process or system in place.

A nice chanikyan excuse IMHO, but it is fair for people to think that way.

On the other hand, we still see many semi-educated people in remote villages giving their lands, money and personal time to build their schools.

I wonder why these very people line up to give donations to Massa unis and Massa political campaigns/dinners. Must be something to do with their priorities and loyalties.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Jun 2012 00:54

negi wrote:Take for example the kind of effort put in by folks on BRF who wanted to make a donation to the IA , even after the funds were collected just handing them over to the IA was a big challenge in itself simply because IA never had any such process or system in place.

Didn't that money get filched BTW!

BTW several years back I found a way of giving back to my Alma CEG. The library. Professors sent me a list of the latest books and publications and I acquired as many as I could and shipped them to the University as donation. Some of the books cost a cool $200 a piece. A year ago I donated 3 document projectors. I had the university name stenciled on and then I went over to the A/V department and quietly slipped a few bucks for the attendant to take it in. My professor promptly went over and checked one out. Its not much and one could do more but....

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 26 Jun 2012 05:51

SriKumar wrote: Could you please comment on why you think the cut-off should be around 1000. Even people who comment about the current drop in standards do acknowledge the original 5 IITs and the two thousand or so ranks that they accepted….so, am a bit curious why your cut-off is half that.

Srikumarji, sorry for the late reply. Got caught up on other priorities.

Frankly, all of this is highly subjective opinion. My point was that all of what I stated could be taken to be true, with a very high degree of confidence, for the top 1000 or so ranks. However, that should not be taken to imply that the statements don't hold true for a much larger percentage of the student population.

Narayanamurthy may come out with a figure of 20% - another source may say 75%...all highly subjective and in many cases agenda-driven opinions. Unless there is an objective measure, or JEE marks are revealed- there's no basis for any of this. The one objective measure we do have is that all 5000 (is that the total figure now?) have beaten the rest of their compatriots on a test that is among the most difficult in the world. Also, the JEE is highly correlated with most other accepted measures of high IQ - including the Olympiads, GRE and Mensa

I don’t see any analysis from your side that considers the cost of the current status quo. If one focuses exclusively on the benefits of a system and dis-regards the cost (in a cost-benefit analysis), it is quite easy to make a case in favor of any system.

Is the subsidy to IITs way higher on a per-student basis than any of the other leading Universities? Do we have any figures for comparison? Would be useful to know the stats if anyone has them handy.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2012 07:38

NIT warangal one of the largest and most well established in NIT system had a budget of around 70cr
http://www.nitw.ac.in/nitw/index.php/ad ... mation/428

here is the note by a iit kanpur faculty pankaj jalote (a top10 JEE ranker in his day!) on the spending issue and expansion of IIT UG strength. he lists some reasons why that is necessary incl increasing the number of IIT UGs in the indian economy....people who had chance to take the best available UG education in india.
http://www.iiitd.edu.in/~jalote/GenArti ... Ratio.html

taking into account greater infra, better faculty pay, better hostels, more staff and faculty the cost of a IIT student is likely 3X that of a NIT student and the cost of a NIT student again higher than a govt run state engg college.

I am sure the current budget of IITs can be found online somewhere...likely to much higher than nit because they much more project grants and infra grants as well.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Jun 2012 07:56

Come to think of it, few days/weeks ago someone posted a TED video that tallied about a cheap FAB LAB that was made available to kids.. Can someone post that link if known?

TIA

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2012 08:03

here is what I mentioned briefly earlier...the major blr realtors are each setting up schools. I suppose no different from landed or political families setting up engg/med colleges to leave a permanent legacy like manipal group, PSG group and so on....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 397291.cms

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Jun 2012 08:31

Singha wrote:here is the note by a iit kanpur faculty pankaj jalote (a top10 JEE ranker in his day!) on the spending issue and expansion of IIT UG strength. he lists some reasons why that is necessary incl increasing the number of IIT UGs in the indian economy....people who had chance to take the best available UG education in india.
http://www.iiitd.edu.in/~jalote/GenArti ... Ratio.html

That is very well written and tries to include all the challenges faced in the imminent expansion of not just the IIT system but would add perhaps even the NIT (20+ campuses). In another 20-30 years the same demands will come upon the newly minted IISERs too. Since the population is predicted to not go down dramatically even as far in future as 2050 we just need to anticipate this and plan now as a nation rather than just worry about the usual cribs one hears whenever someone mentions a change of status quo.

The unfortunate thing about India is that though there are still many state run institutions which impart quality education if not research and consulting at the level of IITs/NITs they are woefully funded and ridden by politics of all shades and regionalism. So the natural expectation is to look forward to GoI institutions to fill the void. The private colleges have not done a great job IMO, even where huge infra is not required like in engg or medicine, to even hope that they will someday morph magically into levels that some of the private univs or colleges are in the US.

Keep in mind most of these state and private univs in US achieved excellence over less than a hundred years of their existence, the UC campuses come to mind as good examples of state run systems.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2012 10:05

from firstpost:

Delhi University’s high cut-off rates for admission continue this year as well. While there is no 100 percent cut-off this year, the average cut-off for 2012 has gone up by about 0.5 percent.

This year Science courses take the honour of leading with impossible cutoffs at 99.25 percent.

BCom courses remain high at 97 percent.

According to IBNLive, authorities claim cut-offs are steadily going up because students are performing better in their Class 12 board exams.

Here’a a list of the cut-offs for the top DU colleges:

This year Science courses take the honour of leading with impossible cutoffs with a 99.25 percent. AFP

Hindu College:

Science: 99.25 percent
Commerce: 96.25 percent
Economics Honours: 92.25 percent

Shri Ram College of Commerce

Commerce: 96.5 percent
Science: 98.5 percent

Sri Venkateswara College

Science: 98 percent
Commerce: 97 percent

Hans Raj College

Commerce: 96.25 percent

Lady Shri Ram College

Science: 95.5 percent
Commerce: 97 percent
Economics Honours: 97 percent

For St Stephen’s the cut-off list for the interview round has also increased. Commerce students hoping to switch to a BA in English, will find it tough since the cut-off is 98 percent. For Economic honours, the cut-off is 97.75 percent for Commerce students while for Science and Humanities students the cut-off is 96.75 percent.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2012 10:28

^^^WTF?!!!

I better not show this to pitashree otherwise he will lose his remaining hair worrying about what would have happened to his nalayak male offspring if he had been a little late at baby making. I prolly would have ended up interning at a chai stall outside St Stephens or Venky

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2012 10:54

if you look at st stephens it used to have the highest cutoff marks in DU in gen category for PCM Hons . but now its not. something happened. what? I understand they changed the seat allotment to give more seats to christians but that should not have impacted the cutoff in gen category.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Jun 2012 12:42

If Anything cut-off should be higher, lesser seats, higher demand, higher cut off's

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2012 13:21

which clearly means its reputation has gone down in the market vs its neighbour hindu college which was always playing 2nd fiddle.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Jun 2012 16:56

RB

My nephew got 94% marks in +2 and got 4500 rank in Sastra Univ applicants. This is a relatively very new engg college is some corner of TN. I was like WTF

I got barely passed my +2 with 55% marks onlee... If you ended up in a ti-stall, I would be collecting waste paper only

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Jun 2012 19:51

Ramay,

TN has always been insane due to the lack of professional college opportunities. Hard though it is to believe things are a lot better. Back when I went to college it was CEG or bust for state syllabus types. Even way back then there was 14,000 applicants for 400 engineering spots. The vast majority did not get their favored specialty. Back then civil engineering was the hot branch due to IAS. IIRC the cutoff was 98% even back then. Even in the 90's 94% would not have gotten you into BSC at Loyola or MCC. At least your nephew has engineering option in Govt. quota. This might cause problems when he has to choose a major. At this point most people buy a seat for their kids. My friends brother got 58% in the 1990's. He bought him a medical seat at MGR university. Guy who should not even be running Tea kaddai is cutting people open now!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jun 2012 20:38

no wonder all our chai-walas have talents.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jun 2012 22:43

Arjun wrote:... most other accepted measures of high IQ - including the Olympiads, GRE and Mensa

Arjun ji, high IQ is not measure of anything, least of all the ability to slog through research. As it has been said several times in the past, research is not a 100 m dash but a marathon.
Regards

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Jun 2012 22:44

High cut-offs for sciences in +2/PDC/PUC is not a recent phenomena either if you wanted to go to the best. Some had their own entrance examinations too like Presidency College or the various Xtian colleges. They did not let me write the exam since I was out of state with my PDC 2nd year results not out, even though had 100%

in PDC-1st yr for Phy&Math theory. Chem lost some marks. There were a few others who had PCM 100% in theory, two of whom went to IIT-M one was rank 47 (AIR) and another 400+. Both who made it did prepare for a year or so and were from the local town the PDC college was in. Though we had heard of IIT it was in our 2nd year and it was late by then, besides no guidance as such. So when our profs asked us to take it we applied and just 3 showed up for the test. Rest of our gang of 10+ from very rural parts of various panchayats from another tier-3 town 25km away with nothing other than vernacular medium govt high schools made to the state engg colleges. One made to REC Surat and another to Calicut. The class strength in PCM was like 100+ and I believe many who did not get the state colleges (in those days there were just one each in trichur, tvm, palakkad, kollam) went to TN or KA. I was the odd ball who would have qualified for Calicut EE but did not go due to family financial issues and moved to WB to be a day scholar or that was the plan with nothing in hand. Scary when you think about it. My parents did not think twice about all this unlike parents these days, neither did I. If JU had not taken me in, after their re-normalization of my +2 marks I would have ended up with nothing for a year in the least, or had to go back to KL and do BSc Math/Phy. That was the fall back plan since I could still stay with my grandma and be a day scholar !

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 26 Jun 2012 23:37

matrimc wrote:
Arjun wrote:... most other accepted measures of high IQ - including the Olympiads, GRE and Mensa
Arjun ji, high IQ is not measure of anything, least of all the ability to slog through research. As it has been said several times in the past, research is not a 100 m dash but a marathon.
Regards

Let me just rephrase Dijkstra's quote, “IQ is no more about research than astronomy is about telescopes.”

Perhaps, this would be of interest - You and Your Research

negi · Post by **negi** » 27 Jun 2012 01:29

Bade by Calicut EE you mean REC Calicut ? Per semester fees was INR 1700 onlee in 2001. Communism ki Kai Jo

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 27 Jun 2012 01:46

Hostel+mess fees were high (Rs 400 or so per month) from what I heard, so the idea was to be a day scholar at any cost. I am not joking when I mention family financial crisis, it was pretty much hand to mouth existence for a few years for us following the crisis. In today's India with the cost of living, I do not think would have survived. I was lucky to be born in that era to get by at that critical juncture. My JU fees was Rs20 per month, house rent for entire family Rs400 per month in Cal and I did tuition to earn pocket money for books etc from 2nd year onwards. Not too taxing to teach school kids and earn a good Rs500 per month, enough for total independence from family except for shelter and food. I have no regrets for having to ditch a REC Calicut BE degree, as physics/math was in my mind from PDC days. My only regret was having to leave KL due to a family decision. So in the end nothing would have changed and I still would have done a PeeChaddi in the sciences. The seeds were planted in my mind when I got handed a collection of old books in physics by a close friend. Yes, it influenced my outlook on what I wanted to do.

The guy who did go to Calicut against his wishes (he wanted to follow in his uncle's footsteps and be a fizzicist) but was forced to by his parents to do Engg, ended up almost not graduating and thrown out due to various cases against him. He was a total sadhu guy and class topper of the govt high school where his dad taught math. Life is indeed strange and it is never a linear path. I am still close to him and he has re-invented himself got his degree but has remained a rebel of the anti-commie kind though.

He does not talk openly about the time at the REC in the early 80's.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Jun 2012 02:21

After BA in secularism, IGNOU introduced 3 courses on Gandhi

1/ Master of Arts in Gandhi and Peace Studies
2/ PG Diploma in Gandhi and Peace Studies
3/ PG Certificate in Gandhi and Peace Studies

Yet, pujya al-~~BRAman~~BRaman thinks yindooo phun-da-mentalists are ruling Bhindia... aaak thoooo

We need to get the list of students and send them a copy of our MKG thread...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Jun 2012 02:49

bade, tell him it is never late to do fizz-chicks. if he does not like desh, firang place would be ideal and more welcoming.

or even a strat-e-jee remote/tie up course from hep masan institutions can help get his interests back.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 27 Jun 2012 11:15

RamaY wrote: I got barely passed my +2 with 55% marks onlee... If you ended up in a ti-stall, I would be collecting waste paper only

Trust me you don't wanna know my +2 marks. While good boys in the same mold as our Bade mian and Singha saar were getting 96% aggregate, this abdul was barely getting half that. For a certain amount of time pitashree was seriously wondering if I was his real puttar or whether there had been a mix up in the hospital 17 years ago (I was born in the hills during a complete power failure/blackout)

Even worse was that both sis and pitashree were top notch students all throughout school/college/EyeEyeTea

Even today I know for sure that if I went thru the same mind numbing curriculum again, I would do as bad or even worse.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 27 Jun 2012 19:13

Compromise reached. Win-win situation, is it?

Govt.-IITs row over entrance test resolved; Sibal skips meeting

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 27 Jun 2012 20:10

Sanskrit optional subject in Kendriya Vidyalayas

Sanskrit has been made an optional subject across the Kendriya Vidyalayas from the academic session 2012-13. Students who wish to study the language will now have to take it as an optional subject like any other foreign language.

UN Khaware, joint commissioner (academics), KV Sangathan, says, "Sanskrit was never a compulsory subject. Most government schools have Sanskrit only till class VIII. It is only in the KVs that Sanskrit was taught till class X."

Couldn't found the link,Supposed to appear in TOI.Read it in RM Discussion Forum.
This is rubbish.Whoever need to learn Foreign languages can do it at Graduate level easily.Such courses are available at all Universities.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 27 Jun 2012 20:13

Sanskrit institute gets IITians' help

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... te-iitians

A curious coincidence led 62-year-old V Ravi to read about the Kuppuswami Sastri Research Institute attached to the Madras Sanskrit College in Mylapore which is languishing for want of funds at a time when he had just begun learning Sanskrit. An email thread, circulated on the subject, had made its way to the mailing list of the IIT-Madras alumni batch of 1971.

Now, its members - including Ravi who has volunteered to be the coordinator - are not just contributing to the cause, but working out ways to sustain the institution's future as well.

"When my father passed away, I had to perform several rituals, but I didn't know what they meant. This prompted me to learn Sanskrit. I have been attending classes organised by the Sringeri Mutt on Sundays for the last three months. The language is highly scientific and well-structured. It is a pleasure to learn," Ravi said.

After a meeting with the staff of the institute, he realised that they were making a lot of sacrifices to keep the place running as the grants from the government stopped in 1995. Now surviving on contributions from corporates and private donors, the institute has introduced a scheme where it sends out books published as an outcome of its research in exchange for a lifetime membership of Rs 2,000.

Dr K S Balasubramanian, deputy director of the institute, says they have brought out 13 books over the last two years. "One of our library members sent out an email about the plight of the institute and we got about 100 lifetime subscribers. Since we are not well-versed with software, Ravi has offered to help us with technological support as well. There may be individuals abroad who might want to read a commentary on Thiruppavai, for instance. We could digitise it and send it to him," he said.

The IIT-M alumni club of 1971 is considering approaching the Planning Commission to ask for a grant as there have been previous instances when the body has extended its support to projects that help ancient languages survive.

"An alumnus of IIM-Ahmedabad has expressed interest in designing a website for the institute. People could donate through the site. The institute could also cater to people living abroad who wish to learn Sanskrit by formulating content and charging users a fee to conduct the classes," Ravi said.

"I need to have volunteers to pull this off, though. A person each in major cities, could coordinate locally. Right now, only our batch is involved with this. We are trying to locate people we know from the various batches of IIT-M alumni to go back to their batch and spread the word," he added.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 27 Jun 2012 20:16

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/a ... 516272.ece

The present selection system has failed to bring in students who are genuinely interested in path-breaking engineering work

Last week I came across a remarkable report on international education tests conducted by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. The Pisa 2009 tests indicate that China has an education system that is overtaking those of many Western countries and that Shanghai was on top of the international education rankings for schools. Andreas Schleicher, responsible for the highly-influential Pisa tests, claimed that the results showed the “resilience” of pupils despite tough backgrounds, and the “high levels of equity” between rich and poor pupils. He believes that it's a philosophical difference — expecting all pupils to make the grade, rather than a “sorting mechanism” to find a chosen few — and, that anyone can create an education system where a few at the top succeed; the real challenge is to push through the entire cohort.

However, the glass is only three-quarters full. It is important that we now focus on why it is one-quarter empty. Mr. Schleicher has a point in that “anyone can create an education system where a few at the top succeed”. The success of our BTech products is partly due to the selection process. Unfortunately, many IIT faculty members and alumni base their entire pride and self worth on this “success”. The fact is that if we admit only those from the top few per cent of a national exam, they will do well no matter how the test is conducted.

There are other reasons why the IIT entrance procedure needs a major revamp. The present selection system depends on machismo in physics, chemistry and mathematics — ideally suited for coaching classes, condemning young boys and girls to a concentration camp atmosphere for two years or so. This is the period these youngsters should spend exploring their interest and aptitudes but are prevented from doing so. This straitjacketing is probably filtering out the innovative and curious ones who hate such narrow perspectives, ensuring that IITs are denied some young Indians who might be truly interested in path breaking work. It is time for a rethink on the objective of the selection procedure for IITs.

Another unfortunate aspect of the JEE debate is that it obfuscates the real issue facing IITs. The future of IITs does not depend on the selection process of undergraduates. No matter what process is adopted they will do well. Within a decade IITs will have little to show for as academic institutions unless policymakers and faculty members start taking pride in the MTech and PhD programmes. It is worth remembering that BTechs comprise less than half of IIT graduates every year. The majority are MTech and PhD degree holders. They make a huge contribution to technological development in India in the public and private sector. It is this group that needs constant improvement, encouragement and recognition. This will not happen unless IITs transform from mid-20th century, narrow-visioned technical institutions to modern, multidisciplinary research universities.

There is an amazing diversity of opinions from IIT faculty and alumni, it is just not the usual ones that we hear.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 27 Jun 2012 20:46

Anyone knows the % of BTechs who opt for IIMs immediately after graduation these days. If a majority of the JEE toppers have an entrepreneurial mindset and the selection process basically filters out the ones who are willing to put in the hard work for 1-2 years, have excellent analytical skills which has never been questioned by any, why not have them join IIMs instead, or even get IIMs to partner with IITs to have a full fledged 4 yr management degree program.

Separate out the pure engineers/scientists aptitude wallahs from MBA seekers. Both skills are needed anyway by the industry.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Jun 2012 21:27

in my era the GPA toppers all went abroad while the also rans went into IIMs fairly easy directly after Btech. anyone on or above >9.0 GPA out of 10.0 was definitely bound for Massa.
reason was some of them did MS , worked for some time and then did Mba from a top school there. its not as if IIM was the only option.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Jun 2012 23:40

Bade wrote:Anyone knows the % of BTechs who opt for IIMs immediately after graduation these days. If a majority of the JEE toppers have an entrepreneurial mindset and the selection process basically filters out the ones who are willing to put in the hard work for 1-2 years, have excellent analytical skills which has never been questioned by any, why not have them join IIMs instead, or even get IIMs to partner with IITs to have a full fledged 4 yr management degree program.

Separate out the pure engineers/scientists aptitude wallahs from MBA seekers. Both skills are needed anyway by the industry.

OK. Two points.

I thought we established that what India needs now, especially from the national-resource drains like IITs, is innovators and not businessmen.

An IITian who just finished his undergrad, already have a product idea and need a business degree to take it forward? I doubt that. I wonder if there is any (again I am not talking about 1 or 2 exceptions) proof that an IIT grad started a technology kumphiny in India within first 2-3 years of his graduation.

Secondly how many IIM graduates started technology companies to begin with? all I hear is about people (1) joined IBs or (2) started NGOs or (3) started some trading companies.

This whole IIT+IIM, IMHO, is nothing but an effort to enter into high paying jobs. MBA is never a requirement to start a successful kumphiny.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Jun 2012 00:03

nelson wrote:Compromise reached. Win-win situation, is it?

Govt.-IITs row over entrance test resolved; Sibal skips meeting

when will be stopping to use archaic terms like "All India" .. AI-ADMK, AI-IIT.. AI-Rank... huh.

btw, on the top 20% vs. percentage, what is the big deal? even if the cut off is over, there is no guarantee that students get into IIT.

When it comes to say equal scores? how would they take the top 20%? meaning need 10 more candidates to fill the top 20%, and we have 1000 candidates with same percentage or score?