Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

member_22605 · Post by **member_22605** » 27 Jun 2012 17:10

You surely are entitled to have your opinion but please don't try and convince others into believing that its a fact. I work at the RWR&DC and have been fortunate enough to meet and work with stalwarts(their contributions are immeasurable) , you are not only downplaying their efforts but also portraying them as mere plagiarists which is absolutely unacceptable to me. Either way this is my last post on this topic, for your opinion seems unchangeable.
Cheers!

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 27 Jun 2012 17:50

Vic

still waiting to see MBB test pilots performed the first flights???

raghuk

don't waste your valuable time on this genius

srai · Post by **srai** » 27 Jun 2012 22:15

Vic,

CAG reports are more of a summary along with news articles that come out. They do not portray all of the details that actually have taken place over the last 20+ years with 1,000s of hours that have gone into building indigenous capacity and capability. Take it for what it is.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 28 Jun 2012 19:22

Two Dhruvs shippped to Ecuador recently along with a Cheetah to Namibia.

Helicopters fly with Sarr Freights

June 27 - India's Sarr Freights has handled the shipment of three helicopters for the Ecuadorian Air Force and the Namibian Ministry of Defence.

The New Delhi-based company shipped a Cheetah helicopter along with two DHRUV helicopters, plus accessories, from Bangalore to Windhoek, Namibia, then Guayquil, Equador.

Sarr Freights handled all Customs clearance requirements, as well as aircraft loading, as well as delivery to door in both destinations.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 28 Jun 2012 21:51

There is going to be a show on Dhruv on NDTV India tomorrow at 8 30 pm IST.

-Ankit

Rupak · Post by **Rupak** » 29 Jun 2012 13:30

Here's a comparison:

US firm United Tech pleads guilty to helping China build attack helicopter
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/us-fi ... er/968234/

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Jun 2012 14:51

Something foir us ot also chew on.

The Top Gun technology targeting the world
Brain power is keeping Britain ahead in the global battle for hi-tech defence sales, Mark Leftly finds on a visit to BAE Systems at a former aircraft hangar in Kent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 97250.html

vic · Post by **vic** » 29 Jun 2012 17:49

We have lot of indigenous programmer like LCA, AMCA, Saras, Hansa, IJT, LOH, LCH, Rustom, AURA, Nishant etc but ALH is not

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 29 Jun 2012 19:07

Still waiting for the MBB test pilots who test flew the Dhruv

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 29 Jun 2012 20:45

Surya, Shoot and scoot, that seems the underlying tactic.. Is there a way to ignore all posts by a particular member ?

member_20036 · Post by **member_20036** » 29 Jun 2012 22:28

Barrackpore gets helicopter unit

KOLKATA: A new helicopter unit comprising multipurpose Mi-17 V5 helicopters - the latest acquisition of the Indian Air Force - has been raisedat the Barrackpore airbase. The first helicopter will be inducted on Friday by Air Marshal S Varthaman, AOC-in-C,Eastern Air Command.
The Mi-17 V5 choppers have more powerful engines and larger fuel capacity than their predecessors and are extremely versatile for carrying out both military and civil operations. The choppers will be ableto operate in high altitudes and air bridge the remote and inhospitable terrain in the North East. The choppers have colour weather radar that allows it to operate in bad weather conditions. tnn Its Generation-III night vision goggles capability will enable special operations. Apart from search and rescue operations on land and sea, the choppers may also be used by central police forces.
The helicopters also have sustained fire power and fall in the category ofan armed helicopter. One of its most interesting features is the Bambi bucket fire-fighting system. It comprises a large bucket suspended below the aircraft that can pick up about three and a half tonnes of water from any reservoir and drop itover a fire.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 479235.cms

Latest IAF choppers inducted in Barrackpore

KOLKATA: The fire at the Nandigram Market in Burrabazar may not have blazed for nearly a week and many more lives could have been saved at the AMRI Hospital in Dhakuria had the Mi-17 V5 choppers - among the latest aircraft to be acquired by the Indian Air Force - been inducted at Barrackpore air force base earlier. The choppers, the first of which was ceremoniously inducted by Air Marshal S Varthaman, AOC-in-C, Eastern Air Command, on Friday, is the first helicopter in the country to be fitted-with a Bambi bucket fire fighting system .
""These could have been very effective in controlling the blaze thatoccurred in Kolkata recently. A large bucket can be suspended below the aircraft. This can pick up nearly threeand a half tonnes of water and drop them on a fire. These helicopters canbe used for civilian purposes. They are fitted with loud hailers and powerful search lights that cane be used for effective crowd control during disaster relief operations,"" said Air Marshal Varthaman.
While an open blaze can be completely douzed with the large amounts of water that the choppers can carry, in fires like the one at AMRI, the water can help to cool down the building substantially and aid in normal firefighting.
The choppers of the newly set-up 157 Helicopter Unit can also be used to ferry personnel of central police forces for anti-Maoist operations. With their added endurance and special features, they will also come in handy during flood relief operations. In the past, choppers hadto be brought in from elsewhere for flood-relief operations in the state.
According to Varthaman, 30 of the helicopters will be inducted at three air bases under the Eastern Air Command. Barrackpore will get its full squadron of helicopters by the end of this year. ""The IAF has ordered 80 of these helicopters from Russia . Though of Russian-make, theavionics inside are western. There is a weather radar on board that allows the aircraft to operate in all weather conditions in any terrain. These choppers are also the first in the country to be equipped with Generation III Night Vision Goggles. This allows them to fly in pitch dark conditions,"" the AOC-in-C said.
Its superior equipment and weaponswill also make the helicopters very effective for Special Forces operations in the North East. Their greater maneuverability and ability to fly at high altitudes will allow them to operate in Sikkim and other mountainous regions.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 508063.cms

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 29 Jun 2012 22:31

Cybaru wrote:Surya, Shoot and scoot, that seems the underlying tactic.. Is there a way to ignore all posts by a particular member ?

Yes. Go to User Control Panel and add him to your list of "Foes".

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 29 Jun 2012 22:36

Prasan wrote:Barrackpore gets helicopter unit
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 479235.cms
Latest IAF choppers inducted in Barrackpore
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 508063.cms

I live in Barrackpore, and the Base is just 5mins from my place. Incidentally, it rained heavily whole morning, so I am not sure how they conducted the induction ceremony. HAL's Barrackpore Unit has had massive change in past 3-4yrs. Their base has expanded in a massive manner. Its a huge Air-base now. I hope to see a C-130 here someday.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 29 Jun 2012 22:50

I\We cannot ignore him unless someone else steps in

Unless admins flag him for trolling we have to keep countering him within forum rules -- else the distasteful dismissal (and particulary hurtful to HAL forum members) will continue

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 30 Jun 2012 00:17

Suryaji, not a bad option.. But wouldn't it be best to leave vic to his believes.. Till one realizes the errors of his ways and thinking by themselves, no amount of proof will satisfy them..

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 30 Jun 2012 00:19

nachiket wrote:
Cybaru wrote:Surya, Shoot and scoot, that seems the underlying tactic.. Is there a way to ignore all posts by a particular member ?
Yes. Go to User Control Panel and add him to your list of "Foes".

Cool,

That works!

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 30 Jun 2012 04:57

Dhruv

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 30 Jun 2012 06:26

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Jun 2012 07:13

thanks A Sharma

that was neat

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 30 Jun 2012 07:32

Were pilots carrying micro uzi?
TIA

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 30 Jun 2012 08:56

Nice documentary, Rajiv Ranjan is getting better with each one. The usual dorks from the media can take a lesson from him. I can see that he has the utmost respect for indigenous assets, unlike the buffoons who salivate at foreign stuff and scoff at the desi gems. I look forward to his pieces on Arjun Mark II and LCA.

member_20036 · Post by **member_20036** » 30 Jun 2012 09:18

Airbase at Panagarh by next year

The IAF wants to convert Panagarh, now an airstrip largely used for emergency landing, into a permanent airbase by the end of 2013.
“We want to start full-fledged operations in Panagarh by the end of next year,” Air Marshal S. Varthaman, the air officer commanding-in-chargeof the Eastern Air Command said today on the sidelines of an event at the Barrackpore airbase in North-24 Parganas. “We have all the necessary infrastructure, including land. It should not be a problem.”
Once Panagarh becomes fully operational, it will not only bolster the IAF’s operations in the east but also serve as an important base from where mid-air refuelling could be carried out, sources said.
The Eastern Air Command inducted a Mi-17 V5 helicopter at the Barrackpore air base, the first IAF aircraft that comes fitted with third-generation night-vision goggles (NVG) and a Bambi bucket fire-fighting system to take up any civilian or military challenge.
The Russian-made aircraft, according to Varthaman, would be able to pick up three-and-a-half tonnes of water from any reservoir in the bucket, which remains suspended below, andair-drop it over any area affected by fire.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120630/j ... 674361.jsp

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 30 Jun 2012 09:23

A Sharma wrote:Were pilots carrying micro uzi?
TIA

Seemed more like the MP9 than the micro uzi..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jun 2012 09:46

great piece of work. loved that marcos unit jumping into the water...very khanish for lack of a better analogy.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Jun 2012 09:54

A Sharma wrote:Dhruv

Great video Check the radar at 20 min 13 sec

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 30 Jun 2012 10:10

nicely made video on Dhruv, the eagerness on the Cheetah pilot to convert shows

here's a small wish list,

1) After the Rudra upgrade, hopefully they get to add a refueling probe like on the C-130 which is removable

2) The Mi-17v5 with the option of a Bambi bucket is probably a first in the country for aerial fire fighting, good going, those buckets would have to release water close to fire to be fully effective, so a bucket made of heat resistant material is more suitable

Another option is a hose from a fire engine can be attached to a pump on the chopper, the chopper rises up in a hover, a dousing pipe similar to a refueling probe with water fed from the onboard pump allows for controlled water/fire retardant spray on fires in high rises since the pilot can see the landing of the water jet

3) A Chinook in a hover with a ramp like grill extending from its back into a window of a high rise, allows for rescuing trapped people like in twin towers or 26/11

4) They should integrate quad rocket launchers on the Mi-17v5, which can be fired only when the chopper is anchored on the ground to balance high recoil forces, MBRL kind of fire power coupled with air mobility will help Cold start

vic · Post by **vic** » 30 Jun 2012 17:56

If somebody is so interested in protecting HAL, then they should sue CAG, after all I am using it's data

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 30 Jun 2012 18:02

^^You mean MBB pilots initially flying Dhruv is CAG's data?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Jun 2012 18:05

still waiting

since you so confidently claimed you had all the facts

and called us Pakis

please give us the MBB pilots name\links who tested the Dhruv initially

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 30 Jun 2012 18:50

Folks - not taking any side in this war but here is a relevant quote:

Indian Defence Review: Jan-Mar 2002 Vol 17 (1)
By Bharat Verma

URL

MBB of Germany ... had provided consultant support for ALH in the initial stages. MBB test pilots carried out some handling flights and have certified to the helicopter's agility and crisp response to controls.

member_20036 · Post by **member_20036** » 30 Jun 2012 18:58

IAF modernization to be completed by 2022:

Browne
The Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne today said that the ongoing modernization of Indian Air Force would be accomplished by 2022. ”All the contracts which are signed during the 11th plan are about Rs 1.12 lakh crore and they will be executed till 2017. At least 65 to 70% of modernisation will be accomplished by 2017, and the restby 2022….So 12th and 13th
Five-Year plans are very crucial for IAF ,” Browne said.
He was speaking to reporters after reviewing the combined Graduation Day parade of flying officers at Dundigal Air Force Academy here.
The procurement of new aircraft is seen in view of the IAF ’s efforts to give fillip to raising current combataircraft squadron strength from 34to 42.
“The modernisation that I speak about involves moving up our squadron strength from 34 to 42. So we need more pilots, technicians and we need more officers to fly the aircrafts,” Browne said.
On acquiring 75 new basic trainer aircraft from the Switzerland-based firm, Pilatus, Browne said IAF will be sending pilots and othertechnical staff to Switzerland to undergo the three-month training on the aircraft as the ‘Pilatus-PC 7′ is expected to join the fleet from January 2013.
“We will be sending our pilots and about 75 technicians to Switzerland for training. They will be coming back after three monthsof training there. And from January(2013) onward the PC-7 aircraft will start to join in the academy,” he said, adding the entire delivery of the aircraft is expected to be completed by July 2014.
The IAF had inked the deal with theSwiss firm Pilatus to buy new basictraining aircraft two months back.
The IAF had in 2009 grounded the HAL -manufactured HPT-32 aircraft for basic training purpose on variety of reasons
Browne said the IAF Academy here will increase its capacity to train cadets to 750 by 2016 from currentcapacity to train 465-485 cadets.
According to him, the Centre has allotted Rs 130 crore to improve the infrastructure at the Dundigal academy.
The IAF chief said that the stage-II training facility at Hakimpet airfield will be shifted to Deesa in Gujarat in next four to five years.

http://idrw.org/?p=12453

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Jun 2012 19:12

thanks Aditya

that comes as part of the consultancy probably

not the same as build, test , slap orange paint and hand over as our pal Viv says

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 01 Jul 2012 09:42

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyd ... 589272.ece

IAF to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft

Indian Air Force also planning to buy 40 more Hawk aircraft, says Air Chief Marshal Browne

Clearing speculations over the delay in purchasing 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), Chief of Air Staff and Air Chief Marshal N.A.K Browne on Saturday said the Indian Air Force was committed to inducting MMRCA into its fleet.

“It’s a big project. Presently discussions are on and the contract could be signed by this year end,” Air Chief Marshal Browne told reporters at the Air Force Academy at Dundigal in Hyderabad.

The IAF is planning to buy 18 MMRCA from France. “Once a contract is signed, it takes nearly three years for manufacturers to deliver the aircraft, he explained. While, 18 MMRCA would be delivered directly, rest of them would be developed in association with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). In another three to five years, these aircraft would be part of IAF,” he said.

In addition to this, IAF was also planning to introduce Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) into its service. “Recently, the weapon trial run of these aircraft was conducted at a desert and we are awaiting operational clearance from the government. We hope to get it by this year-end,” he disclosed. As part of improving its infrastructure, IAF was also planning to buy 40 more Hawk aircraft next year. Presently there are 66 Hawk aircraft at Bidar station. To improve the quality of training being imparted to cadets, the IAF was also planning to procure five more Su-30 aircraft simulators. The IAF has three such simulators now.

“We have made it a policy to get simulators of all the new aircraft, including PC-7 trainers that would be inducted. Cadets would be trained for about 25 hours on these simulators as part of their total training,” he said.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 01 Jul 2012 10:22

Surya wrote:thanks Aditya

that comes as part of the consultancy probably

not the same as build, test , slap orange paint and hand over as our pal Viv says

I am glad we have closure on this. I, for one, having been associated with HAL, NAL, ISRO and ADA never had any doubts that our input to these products was not a la Kamra aircraft "factory".

But we should also remember that in these tough economic times it has been necessary for even advanced countries to co-operate. The latest being the news of Ru and Fr in a joint armoured vehicle collaboration.

srai · Post by **srai** » 01 Jul 2012 10:38

Ivanev wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyd ... 589272.ece

IAF to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft

... To improve the quality of training being imparted to cadets, the IAF was also planning to procure five more Su-30 aircraft simulators. The IAF has three such simulators now.

“We have made it a policy to get simulators of all the new aircraft, including PC-7 trainers that would be inducted. ...

Looks like 8 Su-30MKI simulators total planned. There are enough simulators for every SU-30MKI airbase to have at least one simulator plus one extra.

Going by this, we can predict the number of simulators for other types as well.

8 x Su-30MKI simulators
4 x Rafale simulators
4 x LCA simulators
2 x Mirage-2000 simulators
2 x MiG-29 simulators
4 x Jaguar simulators
4 x Hawk AJT simulators
8 x IJT simulators
5 x PC-7II simulators

Total (by 2020): 41 simulators (estimated)

srai · Post by **srai** » 01 Jul 2012 11:36

Swiss Air Force PC-7 TEAM - Flying Diamond - Intro HD

vic · Post by **vic** » 01 Jul 2012 16:39

HAL did nothing except claim credit is from CAG data. Initial test flights flown by MBB test pilots & confirmation of CAG info is from personal visit to HAL. If somebody posts unabridged version of Janes info then MBB test pilot info might be there also. One has to learn to digest uncomfortable facts. And pls list manufactured sub-components by weight & value by HAL in ALH.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 01 Jul 2012 20:09

By weight? Is the dhruv some sort of dish like chicken tikka masala, where you buy ingredients and mix them to make your final product, for percentage by weight to be a consideration?

Taking the point to its logical conclusion, if HAL makes an effort to reduce the weight of the ALH by using more composites in the airframe or just optimising it structurally, will it become any less indigenous by weight?

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 01 Jul 2012 21:19

Deleted by moderator

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 01 Jul 2012 22:37

Interview excerpts P. Soundara Rajan MD, Helicopter Complex, HAL from Force magazine from 2010

Can you comment on the value of components of the Dhruv which are imported?
---There are a lot of misconceptions regarding indigenisation and imports. There is tremendous value addition that is being done in the Dhruv programme. Structures for the Dhruv are made from composites. Now while the raw material comes from abroad, everything else, from tailoring of the raw material when it comes to design of a component, development of a component, qualification and testing of the component and finally manufacturing of the component, is all done entirely in India. The value addition to the basic raw materials we are getting is anywhere between 45 to 65 per cent. If you look at the percentage of the number of components that are made in this country then 85 to 90 per cent of the Dhruv is made in India.