Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

habal · Post by **habal** » 26 Jun 2012 14:59

Southall. England.

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 26 Jun 2012 22:16

In one recent case, a major London-listed company incurred revenue losses of 800 million pounds ($1.2 billion) because of a cyber attack

Link

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 26 Jun 2012 22:59

^^

Another example of terroristic/separatist/fundamentalist groups and individuals finding the UK a very safe haven. India could express its displeasure with the UK for the activities of these people.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 27 Jun 2012 13:36

India the world's largest open air toilet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... qus_thread

Notice how the comments have been disabled, the Telegraph has attracted alot of the BNP/National Front crowd

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 28 Jun 2012 01:02

Guess who is blamed for massive IT problems in Natwest bank?

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 29 Jun 2012 19:59

Only Christian faith schools are acceptable: Amartya Sen

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... s-religion

Nobel Laureate Amartya Sen has attacked the Tony Blair government for encouraging a society in which ethnic minorities were defined almost exclusively by their religion and for allegedly endorsing establishment of faith schools. He also said that faith schools, barring those run by Christians, should be scrapped.

Christian schools "are perfectly acceptable" but other faith schools "are a big mistake and should be scrapped if the Government wants to encourage a unifying British identity," Sen said in an interview to Daily Telegraph.

Claiming that the faith schools have been set up since the Government wanted to give them parity with Christian institutions, he said, "I am actually absolutely appalled."

Sen, who has come from Harvard, is on a Britain tour delivering lectures on how religion is being used to pull this country apart and to encourage inter-communal violence.

Speaking at the Nehru Centre last night, Sen praised Britain's multi-cultural society but criticised the Blair government for what he called two serious policy blunders - increasingly encouraging a society in which ethnic minorities were defined almost exclusively by their religion and endorsing the establishment of faith schools.

In the interview, Sen said, "Christian schools have evolved and often provide a much more tolerant atmosphere than a purely religious school would. A lot of people in the Middle East or India or elsewhere have been educated in Christian schools. A lot of my friends came from St Xavier's in Kolkata- I don't think they were indoctrinated particularly in Christianity." But the new generation of faith schools "are not going to be like that," he added.

Although he wanted mainstream British schools to broaden their curriculum to include more on the contribution of, say, Muslim mathematicians to science, Sen said faith schools "are a pretty bad thing. Educationally, it's not good for the child.

"From the point of view of national unity, it's dreadful because, even before a child begins to think, it's being defined by its 'community', which is primarily religion. That also drowns out all other cultural things like language and literature. I am a believer in the importance of British identity."

But he wanted the definition to be framed in such a way that allowed the evolution of a "plural multi-cultural society", rather than a "mono-cultural" one in which different groups lived side by side with little interaction.

"We have many different identities because we belong to many differe nt groups. We are connected with our profession, occupation, class, gender, political views and language, literature, taste in music, involvement in social issues - and also religion. But just to separate out religion as one singularly important identity that has over-arching importance is a mistake.

"One of the problems of what is happening in Britain today is that one identity, the religious identity, has been taken to represent almost everything." "Of course, this policy immediately has the effect of making some people extremely privileged - those who speak in the name of religion. There may be some moderate people but mostly they are extremists," he added.

"Religion has been inadvertently politicised by the UK government in a way that is counter-productive. It makes the battle against terrorism so hamfisted and clumsy," he said.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jun 2012 20:44

Christian schools "are perfectly acceptable" but other faith schools "are a big mistake and should be scrapped if the Government wants to encourage a unifying British identity," Sen said in an interview to Daily Telegraph.

Claiming that the faith schools have been set up since the Government wanted to give them parity with Christian institutions, he said, "I am actually absolutely appalled."

Sen, who has come from Harvard, is on a Britain tour delivering lectures on how religion is being used to pull this country apart and to encourage inter-communal violence.

Speaking at the Nehru Centre last night, Sen praised Britain's multi-cultural society but criticised the Blair government for what he called two serious policy blunders - increasingly encouraging a society in which ethnic minorities were defined almost exclusively by their religion and endorsing the establishment of faith schools.

In the interview, Sen said, "Christian schools have evolved and often provide a much more tolerant atmosphere than a purely religious school would. A lot of people in the Middle East or India or elsewhere have been educated in Christian schools. A lot of my friends came from St Xavier's in Kolkata- I don't think they were indoctrinated particularly in Christianity." But the new generation of faith schools "are not going to be like that," he added

All i can say is WOW....

I used to think that BR is overhyping when it says Dhimmi, Indo-hating etc but this is a live living example!!

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 29 Jun 2012 21:19

nawabs wrote:Only Christian faith schools are acceptable: Amartya Sen

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... s-religion
Nobel Laureate Amartya Sen has attacked the Tony Blair government for encouraging a society in which ethnic minorities were defined almost exclusively by their religion and for allegedly endorsing establishment of faith schools. He also said that faith schools, barring those run by Christians, should be scrapped.

Christian schools "are perfectly acceptable" but other faith schools "are a big mistake and should be scrapped if the Government wants to encourage a unifying British identity," Sen said in an interview to Daily Telegraph.

Claiming that the faith schools have been set up since the Government wanted to give them parity with Christian institutions, he said, "I am actually absolutely appalled."

Sen, who has come from Harvard, is on a Britain tour delivering lectures on how religion is being used to pull this country apart and to encourage inter-communal violence.

Speaking at the Nehru Centre last night, Sen praised Britain's multi-cultural society but criticised the Blair government for what he called two serious policy blunders - increasingly encouraging a society in which ethnic minorities were defined almost exclusively by their religion and endorsing the establishment of faith schools.

In the interview, Sen said, "Christian schools have evolved and often provide a much more tolerant atmosphere than a purely religious school would. A lot of people in the Middle East or India or elsewhere have been educated in Christian schools. A lot of my friends came from St Xavier's in Kolkata- I don't think they were indoctrinated particularly in Christianity." But the new generation of faith schools "are not going to be like that," he added.

Although he wanted mainstream British schools to broaden their curriculum to include more on the contribution of, say, Muslim mathematicians to science, Sen said faith schools "are a pretty bad thing. Educationally, it's not good for the child.

"From the point of view of national unity, it's dreadful because, even before a child begins to think, it's being defined by its 'community', which is primarily religion. That also drowns out all other cultural things like language and literature. I am a believer in the importance of British identity."

But he wanted the definition to be framed in such a way that allowed the evolution of a "plural multi-cultural society", rather than a "mono-cultural" one in which different groups lived side by side with little interaction.

"We have many different identities because we belong to many differe nt groups. We are connected with our profession, occupation, class, gender, political views and language, literature, taste in music, involvement in social issues - and also religion. But just to separate out religion as one singularly important identity that has over-arching importance is a mistake.

"One of the problems of what is happening in Britain today is that one identity, the religious identity, has been taken to represent almost everything." "Of course, this policy immediately has the effect of making some people extremely privileged - those who speak in the name of religion. There may be some moderate people but mostly they are extremists," he added.

"Religion has been inadvertently politicised by the UK government in a way that is counter-productive. It makes the battle against terrorism so hamfisted and clumsy," he said.

Funny part is he is a hindu and that too a nobel prize winner who frequently gives advise to our gobermint

by the way, doesn't these kind of statements show the kind of severe brainwashing that goes in xtian schools ?? What a moron, tommorrow he would be justifying colonialism,racism and nazism too saying it is way more tolerant than al-quaida and LeT... no wonder he was selected by firangis for nobel... such a$$ lickers are given priority it seems

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Jun 2012 21:20

That is how the DIE generation have a world view and how they have damaged India.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Jun 2012 22:02

partly true - what he is actually saying is that muslim schools are highly damaging to britain. but since you can't ban only one religion's schools, ban them all

personally i think jewish schools aint great either. and most of my sikh friends are not very keen on sikh schools. whilst none of these schools in themselves discriminate against other religions on entry, the xtian schools are more representative of the society as a whole and teach overall more inclusive values than certainly the muslim and jewish schools

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 29 Jun 2012 22:07

Lalmohan wrote:partly true - what he is actually saying is that muslim schools are highly damaging to britain. but since you can't ban only one religion's schools, ban them all

personally i think jewish schools aint great either. and most of my sikh friends are not very keen on sikh schools. whilst none of these schools in themselves discriminate against other religions on entry, the xtian schools are more representative of the society as a whole and teach overall more inclusive values than certainly the muslim and jewish schools

I have observed a lot of missionary style propoganda is used to take kids away from their native culture to xtianism, atleastit's partly true in convent school in India.. what is your take on that??

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Jun 2012 22:23

its not that they dont want to, but they really dont try very hard
the brit xtians in mainstream life and churches in the UK are into "diversity" - they probably promote hinduism more than jesus!
not true for the evanjihadis though - but that is far more marginalised in the UK

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 29 Jun 2012 22:43

Lalmohan wrote:partly true - what he is actually saying is that muslim schools are highly damaging to britain. but since you can't ban only one religion's schools, ban them all

But he's not saying "Ban them all". I would have agreed with that. He is saying "Ban all except Christian ones". So instead of only the Muslims crying "discrimination", you are going to have several religions crying "discrimination".

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 29 Jun 2012 22:45

@Lalmohan, please give some references (if possible) to show that christian schools promote hinduisum more than jesus.

My experience in convent school St.Xaviers (a Jesuit school who never fail a chance to note S.J. after their names) is not quite same. Although I admit that the Principal of the school was more native than some of the staff.

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 29 Jun 2012 22:53

The top most positions in convent schools in India are held by whites

I have personally met them and talked to them.. plus the "donations" nowadays is upwards of 2 lakhs-7 lakhs. Hindus more or less are funding their own destruction. Also, there were other hopless countries too.. I have rarely seen them act like Indians of that era.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 30 Jun 2012 00:06

If Nobel saar means muslim schools then he should pretty much say ban muslim schools instead of saying ban all religious schools. If his Nobel prize did not give him the conviction to speak his mind then whatever he uvacha is nothing more than gungadin speak. I highly doubt any religious schools apart from muslim schools produce frothing in the mouth haters

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 30 Jun 2012 18:49

Lalmohan wrote:partly true - what he is actually saying is that muslim schools are highly damaging to britain. but since you can't ban only one religion's schools, ban them all

personally i think jewish schools aint great either. and most of my sikh friends are not very keen on sikh schools. whilst none of these schools in themselves discriminate against other religions on entry, the xtian schools are more representative of the society as a whole and teach overall more inclusive values than certainly the muslim and jewish schools

He didn't say "ban them all", he said non Xtian schools should be banned.

Would this shameless clown say ban non Hindu schools in India?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 30 Jun 2012 19:42

you cannot compare a missionary school in india with a normal school in the uk - completely different
and those of you who dont live in the uk will not appreciate the whole diversity thing going on in the uk

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 30 Jun 2012 21:05

Lalmohan wrote:you cannot compare a missionary school in india with a normal school in the uk - completely different
and those of you who dont live in the uk will not appreciate the whole diversity thing going on in the uk

Could that be explained please?

Interesting to know such differences based on appreciating diversity within UK or is it just within London.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Jul 2012 00:13

Lalmohan wrote:you cannot compare a missionary school in india with a normal school in the uk - completely different
and those of you who dont live in the uk will not appreciate the whole diversity thing going on in the uk

Missionary schools inside India has a colonial context and hence has a problem. We need to make them Indian based.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 01 Jul 2012 01:31

Lalmohan wrote:you cannot compare a missionary school in india with a normal school in the uk - completely different
and those of you who dont live in the uk will not appreciate the whole diversity thing going on in the uk

My brother who is in UK also mentioned to me about the diversity thing going on in UK. What I told him was that that is fake, and they will undo that at right time. If other countries copy this diversity thingy from brits, then they will turn out to be the real fools.

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 01 Jul 2012 04:16

Lalmohan wrote:you cannot compare a missionary school in india with a normal school in the uk - completely different
and those of you who dont live in the uk will not appreciate the whole diversity thing going on in the uk

Nice one, really funny

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 01 Jul 2012 04:24

Acharya wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:you cannot compare a missionary school in india with a normal school in the uk - completely different
and those of you who dont live in the uk will not appreciate the whole diversity thing going on in the uk

Missionary schools inside India has a colonial context and hence has a problem. We need to make them Indian based.

Indian missionary schools should be banned - outright. They are extension of colonial rule along with IAS system, Police and intelligence system.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 01 Jul 2012 05:15

Lalmohan wrote:you cannot compare a missionary school in india with a normal school in the uk - completely different
and those of you who dont live in the uk will not appreciate the whole diversity thing going on in the uk

The point is simple.

This clown advocates banning non Xtian schools in UK but lectures Hindus about secularism.

And what's so unique about UK?

What Muslims do there, they did & do a thousand times worse in India. Bradford is nothing compared to places like old city, Hyderabad.

The amount of atrocities committed in India for centuries due to Islam & Christianity (this gunga din's Christian British Raj had a hand in many of these atrocities) make any "diversity" issues in the UK pale into insignificance.

So should all Muslim & Xtian schools be banned in India?

What would this gunga din's reaction be to that?

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 01 Jul 2012 12:57

Most of the above discussion is flawed in that it is assuming that the UK is
secular. It is not. It is constitutionally a Christian nation. Christian schools
are a right, Hindu and Muslim schools are to all purposes permissible at
discretion and NOT a constitutional right unlike in India.

Nevertheless I do not agree with the Professor at all. As for his Nobel prize
it stinks. Given by an agency that has failed to adequately explain, to this
date why Gandhi is not a recipient despite his obvious incomparable
achievements. They are a political agency.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 01 Jul 2012 14:41

Lisa wrote:Most of the above discussion is flawed in that it is assuming that the UK is
secular. It is not. It is constitutionally a Christian nation. Christian schools
are a right, Hindu and Muslim schools are to all purposes permissible at
discretion and NOT a constitutional right unlike in India.

Nevertheless I do not agree with the Professor at all. As for his Nobel prize
it stinks. Given by an agency that has failed to adequately explain, to this
date why Gandhi is not a recipient despite his obvious incomparable
achievements. They are a political agency.

So the Nobel prof does not point out that the country is communal and not secular, but does say that all except majority Xian schools are not as good as majority Xian schools?

If this change is behavior is based on nothing but religion ie in India all have rights to run schools is normal though in communal country like UK only majority schools are good enough, is this called secularism? What is it called otherwise?

Should the Nobel prof improve secularism everywhere not just partially somewhere and partially be not too secular at all. What an educated fellow!

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 01 Jul 2012 15:31

Vishvak, kindly rephrase, I do fully understand the point. Kindly note that I
am not in agreement with the professor.

Can I re-post a previous post of mine,

Post subject: Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011Posted: 18
Dec 2011 12:10

"I think this opinion in addition to some others of a similar tone are
mistaken. David Cameroon is just reiterating a fact, the UK is a Christian
state.

Let me give some examples, members of the clergy are GUARANTEED
places and votes in the House of Lords and the Queen in addition of being
'queen' is also the head of the Church Of England. As part of her duties
she is also responsible for the defence of faith.

If you feel that this is unacceptable, wait till you go to Europe where some
countries levy you with a church tax! Although the UK is operationally a
very secular nation it has been and remains a constitutionally a Christian
nation. Nothing new here."

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 01 Jul 2012 16:31

As a secular and educated Nobel prof. he could be the the person to deliver secularism in Europe from leadership position with eagerness and impartiality from the not-too-secular at all place the Europe could be, including constitutional corrections and improvements to remove non-neutrality and secularism including rejection of backward looking not-too-secular at all European monarchy not bound to enforce secularism by constitution.

In fact is it very shocking how first world 'international' European countries full of noble souls are silent and not proactive at all in implementing strict secular activism since when. Is not there anyone at all in the first world European countries to enforce Europe-wide secular vision for public good and improve at social level to claim secular nobility at all?

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 01 Jul 2012 22:27

The far-Right leader in a Sikh headscarf and a very disturbing anti-Muslim alliance: EDL joins protesters angry at 'grooming of girls'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1zOL1mNYu

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 01 Jul 2012 22:28

Haresh wrote:The far-Right leader in a Sikh headscarf and a very disturbing anti-Muslim alliance: EDL joins protesters angry at 'grooming of girls'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1zOL1mNYu

why is it disturbing??

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 01 Jul 2012 22:32

So rather than suggest that other schools be brought up to a certain standard that the christian schools have achieved (really?!) he advocates closing them down? What an idiot.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Jul 2012 22:41

Haresh wrote:The far-Right leader in a Sikh headscarf and a very disturbing anti-Muslim alliance: EDL joins protesters angry at 'grooming of girls'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1zOL1mNYu

This is going to get a lot of pants of "liberal" Islam-appeasing leftist activists in a real twist. Good move by EDL. The social liberals are trying their best to paint all Anti-Islamic European groups as racist and Nazi groups, and they have had some success in that too. EDL, Sikh cooperation would go a long way in clarifying to the people that that is not the case, and help in mobilizing public opinion in UK and Europe against the Islamists, and in particular the Pakistanis.

Support of Sikhs allow many whites to take a hard line against Pakis without being called racists, and gives them more leeway.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 02 Jul 2012 05:58

An uncivil communal conflict spilling over onto Ukstani streets can't be so bad, now would it? It would also go a long way in clarifying the large-hearted nature of the Paki ass to the aam oiro public. And be a fitting red carpet soft-power boost to usher in the holympics, besides.

And o yes, lest any NiradChaudhari wannabee get its knickers in a twist...... don't forget the brits left the subcontinent in flames of civil war that they carefully crafted so as to inflict wanton damage on our people here. And nearly succeeded too. Sheesh, even apna Arindam Chaudhari seems upright and moral when compared to slavish gunga-deenish charlatans like Nirad. #aakthoo.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 02 Jul 2012 06:17

Lalmohan wrote:you cannot compare a missionary school in india with a normal school in the uk - completely different
and those of you who dont live in the uk will not appreciate the whole diversity thing going on in the uk

Actually that is precisely the problem with the other religious schools in the UK. No one who isn't Muslim would have any desire to go to a Muslim school, or most of the faith schools. These schools primary value proposition isn't offering a competitive education - its providing a grounding in some community's religious and cultural identity.

On the other hand the Church of England and Roman Catholic schools in the UK pull students in of all sorts of backgrounds precisely because they're offering a better education than the bog standard state comprehensive. Better off parents like sending their children there because there's better discipline and better teaching.

The problem isn't multiculturalism, its multiculturalism for its own navel-gazing sake. Requiring that religious schools show diversity in their ability to recruit and retain students from a variety of communities will go a long way to fixing problems. CoE schools for example have voluntarily taken a commitment to maintain 25% of all places for non-Christians.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 02 Jul 2012 13:32

Sridhar.E

I don't find it "disturbing" at all, that was just the headline.

I actually regard it as a positive development.
The situation in the UK basically is this:

Islamists in alliance with the left/liberals/socialist/communist crowd.
The reason that these idiots suppport the islamists is A: the allegation that to be anti islam is racist.
B:Votes
C:the hate America/Israel
D:Islam is considered a force against the west/capitalism

The obvious problem being that Islam itself is a racist,homophobic, mysoginist, violent faith.
The lefties are busy kidding themselves that this is not true and they are in some sort of alliance and they will make any excuse for them.

A good example is the most self rightous lefty paper in the UK, the Al guardian employing a Hizbut Tarir activist as a journalist, providing space for the Moslem Brotherhood to justify it's policies, defending the islamist regime of sudan.
Regular stories critical of India.
Then we have the BBC, with it's anti Israel/India agenda.
All these trendy champagne socialists who live in Camden & Islington, with their ever so fancy "with it" "trendy" ideas.

Where do the Indians fit in with this???
Well we are one of the most successful communities in the UK along with our Jewish friends & Allies, we are business people and prosperous, therefore we are capitalists and fair game.

The left sides with the losers, the islamists.
A growing amount of west Indians are converting to islam in the UK, they tend not to be well educated or achievers, so are drawn to the cult, with their overwhelming resentment of Jews and Indians who are successful.
The Africans on the other hand are devout Christians and despise islam and are confused by the west Indian facination with it.

With regards to the EDL, make no mistake about it, they are BNP light.
However under the circumstances we have to look at co operation with them.

I know of Indian girls Sikh and Hindu who have been converted. One Hindu girl, her father dropped dead with a stroke/heart attack when he found out she converted.

Threats and intimidation are regular occurences against non moslems and this is a natural alliance.

What would you do if your family, especially your daughers/sisters/wives were being threatened???

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Jul 2012 13:38

Haresh wrote:I know of Indian girls Sikh and Hindu who have been converted. One Hindu girl, her father dropped dead with a stroke/heart attack when he found out she converted.

Obviously the father due to his political correctness failed to appraise his daughter about the finer points of Islam early enough.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Jul 2012 23:34

RajeshA wrote:
Haresh wrote:I know of Indian girls Sikh and Hindu who have been converted. One Hindu girl, her father dropped dead with a stroke/heart attack when he found out she converted.
Obviously the father due to his political correctness failed to appraise his daughter about the finer points of Islam early enough.

Was it in Midland ? It happended to one of my cousin brother's childhood friend. He had the stroke whne he came to know that his daughter was going to marry a Paki. Sad part was that his wife knew this and kept the secret from him.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 02 Jul 2012 23:49

Good catch by TOI or whoever in MEA leaked this. Notice that Whitehall, like a caring mother, is still trying to protect Porkistan, its inbred child, from any fallout of its policy of jihad under an expanding nuclear umbrella.

Also, it seems that the royal family of Englistan is still living in the first half of 19th century.

4 months in UK, Indian envoy awaits Queen Elizabeth's nod | TOI

LONDON: Four months after the new Indian high commissioner to the United Kingdom, Jaimini Bagwati, arrived in London, Britain's head of state, Queen Elizabeth, hasn't found time to accept his credentials. Apparently, such preoccupation on her part is the latest in a series of inadvertent or intended tit-for-tats between the two countries.

After previous Indian high commissioner Nalin Surie completed his term, he wasn't replaced for seven months. Now, with his successor in place for four months, Elizabeth has been too busy to receive him.

A spokesman for Elizabeth said presentation of credentials is "slotted in at the first available opportunity". He did not see the delay as unusual. The British foreign office indicated "India is moving up the list" for an appointment, but wasn't hopeful this would happen until after the Olympics.

Indeed, while the British monarch was busy in recent weeks celebrating the diamond jubilee of her reign, for her not to be able to spare a single moment prior to this has raised eyebrows. It's learnt that there was a window in the second half of April, but it wasn't utilised.

An informed insider told TOI that while British Prime Minister David Cameron visited India within weeks of entering office in May 2010 in pursuit of a "special relationship" - and Manmohan Singh responded warmly - the upward trajectory in the ties was jolted by Elizabeth not attending the inauguration of the Commonwealth games in New Delhi in October the same year.

"It seems South Block did not take kindly to the cancellation," said the source, adding, "This has had an impact."

Whitehall expected, as agreed during Cameron's 2010 trip, the Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to visit the UK last year. Not only did this not take place, but there are no indications of this being scheduled this year.
Over and above, the multi-billion IAF order for combat aircraft was awarded to France and not to a consortium in which BAE of Britain had a major stake.

Besides, it has annoyed India that the increasingly candid comments about Pakistan from US President Barack Obama have not been matched by the British leadership.
It's, of course, commonly trotted out that a high commissioner, as opposed to an ambassador, is fully functional from the second he sets foot in the UK. But such are the workings of diplomacy that he is not wholly recognised as such until the ceremony of presenting the credentials has occurred.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 03 Jul 2012 00:17

why bother sending a high commissioner at all?
A steno from one of our business houses is good enough to deal with the briturds.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 03 Jul 2012 14:45

Cheater Cheater Pumpkin Eater

Letter From London - Sudesna Sen

It’s a bad week to be a banker in the City of London, again. First it was the Royal Bank of Scotland and NatWest that went into total IT paralysis, leaving thousands of customers unable to do their routine transactions for almost a week, and then there was the massive Libor scandal that swamped Barclays, and an investigation is lurking like a massive underwater shark to chomp at 20 other banks. Barclays’ shoot from the hip, former investment banker chief Bob Diamond is now the focus of a huge political and public backlash. Most famously remembered for telling a parliamentary committee last year that the time for remorse and bankers to apologise was over, there’s widespread glee at him having to eat his own words, after paying up a record $450 million in fines for manipulating Libor. Reminiscent of the Jamie Dimon debacle.

For those of us who don’t speak the language, what is all the fuss about? It’s not simple, else, people wouldn’t have got away with it for years, and it would not have taken regulators so long to find and fix blame. Libor is the London interbank rate, which is set daily as a base price at which banks can borrow money from each other for their daily transactions. Now, since banks are the main suppliers of money for everyone else, Libor becomes the base interest rate on which almost every other kind of financial borrowing contract is based for companies, individuals, et al. So, what’s it got to do with all of us, you may say. The thing is, Libor is pretty much used universally — in all countries — as a global benchmark rate of interest. Even in India. And here’s where things become terribly quirky. Libor, because it is not a regulated rate but more like a price, cannot really be dictated from a high.

Traditionally, a number of banks would submit daily quotes in various currencies to the British Bankers Association, estimated the rate they thought they could borrow the next day, like a kind of survey, and the Libor rate would be fixed based on quotes submitted by a number of banks.

The whole system only worked assuming that the club would play cricket and, of course, nobody would dream of cheating. It’s a system that harks back to a kinder, gentler era of gentleman banking, and like so many things, in England, the tradition carried on. It’s the “that’s how we’ve always done it since 1462” syndrome, the one where everyone assumes that just because a system always worked, it always will.
Well, it now turns out that everyone did cheat. They submitted lower quotes to make it look like they were better off than they were, they submitted numbers to help their traders with whatever deals they were doing, and more, on a systematic basis for years. Now, Mervyn King, governor of the Bank of England, has said that the system of fixing Libor needs to be changed. A little late in the day, one would have thought.

In 2008, after the crash, when the news about Libor-fixing starting doing the rounds, and I first discovered how Libor was set, I found it inconceivable that in the frenetic, hysterical, dog-eat-maneat-dog world of banking in that era, they wouldn’t try and rig the rates.

In India, Libor is something that arrives every morning as a given — and then you work from there. We’ve never really bothered much about where it comes from. And that brings me to the point I want to make this time. Something like a Libor isn’t just about British banks. It’s something everyone the world over uses. I’m not a big fan of Bob Diamond, given his rather abrasive style, or any of the big bankers. I just think the world needs yet another banking confidence crisis, as former chancellor Alistair Darling put it succinctly, like a hole in the head.

But in London, the hunt is up. The horns have been sounded, the hounds are baying and entire hosts of regulators, media, parliament and the public are galloping out to get bankers’ bonuses, more preferably their heads.

Lots of erudite commentators are complaining about the ‘systemic culture’ in banks that needs to be changed, not just handing out penalties. You can yearn for the more benign rhythms of the long, leisurely test cricket days, but 20:20 is here. You can’t suddenly turn traders trained to ferociously competing for profits into benign high-street branch managers, any more than you can turn Greeks into Germans. It’s the systemic loopholes — like how Libor is set — that should be the focus of the discussion; the fear of a massive penalty that will hit their balance sheets and prices, is about the only deterrent that will stop bankers, traders, dealers and even bank CEOs from exploiting every loophole they can find. Yet another banker bashing outing, while it may be deeply satisfying for a recession-hit public and politicians, might just end up being counter-productive. So, RBS had an IT crash. It happens. They’ll pay huge amounts in compensation. So, Barclays helped rig Libor. So, they’re paying a massive fine, and maybe Bob Diamond will lose his job.

It may not, like Mr Diamond says, be time for bankers to stop being remorseful, but it’s high time for bankers to get on with what they need to do, which is lend money to businesses.

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