Indian Roads Thread

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Jul 2012 19:57

Sachin wrote: What these socialists are really looking for is good roads, with some body else paying the money. I think it is time to call their bluff .

This is exactly right. The whole purpose of toll is that the users pay, not everyone else. Of course people are busy trying to divide a grain of rice now and obstructing projects, that too prosperous car owner types. It must be pointed out that the vast majority, 90%+ are Two wheeler/public transport types and pay no toll at all. So the Elite 10% are creating Hungama so others will pick-up their tab.
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Bade, I don't buy this business of Kerala exceptionalism at all. I have heard it since I was a small child and it always seemed like urban legend to me. The data does not bear it out. Take a look at Densities in rest of India, exp. In UP/WB.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jul 2012 20:00

I hopeTheo will agree to tolling Anna Salai (old Mount Road) or Sachin in Blr will agree to toll MG Road, ORR

before making lofty pronouncements on socialism for all evils.

Pretty soon once the city expands all the way to Devanahalli, one would see the new toll booths getting pushed further closer to the AP border.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 02 Jul 2012 20:03

vishvak wrote:The cost of building roads are taken care of in the initial bidding so that cost is recovered as per the agreement. It is clarified and nothing is hidden.

However the people are unaware of this and continue paying toll.

Normally, after recovering costs no more toll is collected. But if toll is collected after the specified period as per agreement it is unusual.

If continued maintenance is bult into contract , Tolls are collected for that as well.
Nothing wrong in that for such Expressway demand high level of upkeep, given the speed at which traffic moves.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jul 2012 20:06

Theo point me to one toll road within the City of Kolkata other than the new Howrah bridge. Are Dilli/Gurgaon roads tolled too ?

I have driven on the NH47 bypass section and can vouch that all the way from Angamaly (North) to Aroor bridge (South) is one big shopping district. If anyone want to build a tolled expressway at grade level through there, must check their heads.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 02 Jul 2012 20:12

Bade wrote:Theo point me to one toll road within the City of Kolkata other than the new Howrah bridge. Are Dilli/Gurgaon roads tolled too ?

I have driven on the NH47 bypass section and can vouch that all the way from Angamaly (North) to Aroor bridge (South) is one big shopping district. If anyone want to build a tolled expressway at grade level through there, must check their heads.

Dilli-Gurgaon Expressway is tolled. However your point is valid as well. Expressway should be not on the Grade if passing through town or citi center. Also sometimes Toll gates are cleverly placed so as to cause inconvenience to users into paying for limited use of Toll. Over time such users prevail and dont pay toll. There may be other issues but Paying toll is a good way to fund building international quality roads. No way to avoid that. Roads are too costly to build to these standards.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jul 2012 20:17

I am not against toll roads at all as have mentioned before. The only fair complaint against KL can be that the people there canned the greenfield expressway and that can be attributed to misplaced ideas of socialism.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 02 Jul 2012 20:18

chaanakya wrote:
vishvak wrote:The cost of building roads are taken care of in the initial bidding so that cost is recovered as per the agreement. It is clarified and nothing is hidden.

However the people are unaware of this and continue paying toll.

Normally, after recovering costs no more toll is collected. But if toll is collected after the specified period as per agreement it is unusual.
If continued maintenance is bult into contract , Tolls are collected for that as well.
Nothing wrong in that for such Expressway demand high level of upkeep, given the speed at which traffic moves.

I agree. However, once an expressway is built with huge costs (including land acquisitions, tunnels, etc.), the toll for maintenance, after costs for build is recovered, is not comparable to costs of build.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jul 2012 20:23

Theo_Fidel wrote:Bade, I don't buy this business of Kerala exceptionalism at all. I have heard it since I was a small child and it always seemed like urban legend to me. The data does not bear it out. Take a look at Densities in rest of India, exp. In UP/WB.

Actually to the contrary there is a Kerala exceptionalism whether you want to believe it or not, how else can you explain the rapid development of secondary and tertiary roads (all tarred) and connected to whatever state highways exist already. Almost every one of the houses built in the last 20-30 years in KL have good road access, which cannot be said of other places in India.

In fact Harbans talked extensively about super crush densities of mohallahs and wide open spaces next to it. The UP density is not uniformly high like in Kerala, it is pockets of super high density with open spaces.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Jul 2012 20:49

so, review this :

http://ravekrishna.wordpress.com/2010/1 ... -potholes/

and update status for year 2012/off date.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Jul 2012 20:56

Bade wrote: Almost every one of the houses built in the last 20-30 years in KL have good road access, which cannot be said of other places in India.

Like I said urban legend onlee.

I suppose everyone else hop skips and jumps to their house. And not all Keral houses have good road access. In fact I know several that have no road access at all and depend on back-waters. Houses are nice due to gelf money. I visited some family in kuttanad and once we got of the main road it is was mud road and slush all the way to nice pucca house with garage. Not only that the dang road was only 8' wide in places with a 3' drop to paddy field either side. Everything was nice and clean, no trash, etc however. You don't see the destitute poverty of India in Keral.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jul 2012 21:13

Kerala is not backwater only. Kuttanad area is a special case which is hardly even 10% of KL. Just drive around Trichur district even in the hills which have a sparser population density, but with pucca roads, much better than the ones I saw in Blr leading to new 1-2 crore plus homes there.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 02 Jul 2012 21:16

Bade wrote:Sachin, the NH47 bypass section with a toll would not work anywhere in the world even in capitalist havens.

In that case Kerala folks should be clearly told that four lane highway is out of question. The so called great 100% literate, socially aware folks of Kerala kept quiet all this time. It is not that the people did not know that this was going to be a toll road. They jolly well knew that. And when every thing is ready out come the protests demanding that tolls should not be levied. If you ask me (I say this as a true blue Mallu only, but who for quite some time live outside the state), the idea behind these protests are all for having first class facilities with no paisa going out of their pockets. No wonder that no sensible contractor want to touch this place and the Mannuthi-Walayar section still remains a big question mark.

The only way you can have a 4+4 lane carriageway with tolls going through the denser parts of Kerala is on stilts and completely access controlled.

Such a plan was mooted, but quickly shot down. There were very many reasons for the same. But one of them was a whine that the road on stilts would be cutting the state to two parts

. Some intellectuals also were not happy over the fact that these highways are only benefecial to the super rich, who can go from one end of the state to another in around 5 hours time.

If anyone want to build a tolled expressway at grade level through there, must check their heads.

I do agree with this point

. Infact the contractor who took up this decision, actually made a mistake. And successive state governments also managed to hood wink these fellows to take up the contract by promising them a helping hand in running the show.

Any body who plans to get into road building (or rail laying) contracts in Kerala should examine their heads. As I said folks should be really left in their socialistic heaven, where all folks can use the narrow roads for years to come

. But clearly tell them if they want any thing more, better pay up. Or let the road users form a co-operative society, pool in their money and build the roads *.

nakul wrote:Most people get pissed off because this toll business never ends. Even years after the road has been built, toll booths do not shut down.

This is a problem, but again the people can take this to the courts. In Kerala itself the people had used the option against Toll levied on a bridge near Kochi city. The contractor conveniently hid the fact that the time fixed for the tolls had finished long ago. Another example I know is for a bridge in Kozhikode Rural Dt. So such things can be tackled differently rather than using it as an excuse not to pay tolls at all.

* Cochin International Airport (CIAL) was built in this manner.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jul 2012 21:29

I dunno what holds back the mannuthi-walayar section of NH-47 as population density at least just off the main highway is not as high as in coastal areas. But this area has been a commie bastion for a long time, isn't it ? So there may be several factors at work here.

Sachin, I brought in the Hawaii comparison since one cannot have a 3+3 lane expressway in many part of KL, more so in the ghats area. But Palakkad area is not a high density district from a casual driving around, even the alternate route via shornur, lakkadi seems very rural with plenty of space for a regular 2+2 divided highway.

I had to pay close to Rs18k for a Rs4L car as tax, wonder where all that monies are going if not for roads

where toll is not collected.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jul 2012 22:04

No one has answered yet why two-wheelers get to use roads without paying toll in TN.

Is there socialism there too but no one wants to admit to it in public. Why should car owners and out of state travelers have to bear this burden.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Jul 2012 22:20

There seems to be a misunderstanding of what roads typically cost. In India it is not unusual for NHAI standard roads, 6lane, width, grade, exts, bridges, etc to cost on the order of Rs 20 Crore per km. Esp. for newer better designed ones. This is over and above the cost of land and local feather smoothing.

If say about a 100,000 cars were sold in Keral last year then taking Bade’s Rs 18,000 number, total collection is 180 Crore, for entire state of Keral. This may not even be enough to build 5-6 km of a NHAI quality road. This 50 km section apparently cost Rs 312 Crore. Assuming an interest rate of 10% and maintenance/service cost of 5% (low), Just to break even the project needs ~ Rs 50 Crore every year, esp. in the beginning. I’m not even getting into principle payments and contractor profit. If say a 10,000 cars go through the toll every day and cough up Rs 85, then the total raised per day is ~ 10 lakh or about Rs 35 Crore per year. As you can see this is not even break even. BTW I have just learned that the monthly pass rates are on the order of Rs 300- Rs 500. This is a steal compared to rest of India. So if say 10,000 cars use the Rs 500 monthly pass the amount collected is only Rs 6 Crore per annum. This won’t even cover maintenance.

You can see why the full toll is so crucial for profitability. But I guess profit is a bad work in SRK.

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I believe 2-wheeler exemption is NHAI standard. Here is the toll in Chennai. 2-wheeler is exempt in Keral too unless I hear different.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jul 2012 22:39

Theo, thanks for the link so the two-wheelers are cross subsidized by NHAI, while in towns and cities they are the ones that comprise majority users. This is socialism for sure. Why single out KL resident vehicle owners if cars seems to be on the rise in the true socialist republic

and is the new two-wheeler substitute for the middle classes there.

BTW, my BIL who just retired from his KSRTC job as a technician just bought a Maruti. Yes there is socialism at a scale not seen elsewhere

as private cars are not limited to IT Vity engg classes alone.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jul 2012 00:09

Just to give one a scale of costs....

http://www.business-standard.com/genera ... ane/18153/

National Highways Authority of India is finalising a Detailed Project Report (DPR) for six laning of the 260 km Chennai-Bangalore highway, a senior official has said.

"The six laning of Chennai - Bangalore is being finalised. We can soon expect some developments in this stretch," I G Reddy, NHAI Chief General Manager (Technical), Tamil Nadu and Kerala told reporters here.

The Rs 5,000 crore project would be access controlled and have 12 junctions and grade separators, he said yesterday.

Commenting on the ongoing works in Kerala, he said the Government of Kerala was "not being proactive" in cooperating with the NHAI.

He said the work on two corridors - Coimbatore - Kochi and Mangalore - Kanyakumari - both passing through Kerala were proceeding in a "slow pace."

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 03 Jul 2012 01:08

The only problem area is Walayar to Vadakkancherry, which as per NHAI is to be awarded.

04
Salem to km 100 & Salem - Coimbatore - Kerala Border Section
Km. 100 to Km. 182
Tamil Nadu
47 27.37 Balance for award

105
Four lanning of Walayar - Vadakkancherry section
Km. 182.000 to Km. 240.000
Kerala
47 58 Balance for award

106
Thrissur to Angamali (KL-I)
Km. 270.000 to Km. 316.70
Kerala
BOT
47 40 Completed KMC Construction Ltd. - SREI (JV) [Guruvayoor Infrastructure Pvt. Ltd.]
Indian

107
Angamali to Aluva (NS-28/KL)
Km.332.6 to Km.316.70
Kerala
NHAI
47 16.6 Completed Tantia - Techni Bharti (JV)
Indian

108
Thrissur - Kochi Section
km 332.0 - km 349.0
Kerala
MORTH
47 17 Completed

Something I had not heard before and under implementation too !

50
Six lanning of Vadakkancherry - Thrissuresection
Km 240 to km 270
Kerala
BOT
47 30 Under Implementation KMC Construction Ltd.- CR18G Consortium
Indian-china

http://www.nhai.org/chain_NS.asp

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2012 01:12

Bade wrote:No one has answered yet why two-wheelers get to use roads without paying toll in TN. Is there socialism there too but no one wants to admit to it in public. Why should car owners and out of state travelers have to bear this burden.

Car people are rich!, especially if the cars have KL tag.. all gelf alle?
bike people are poor.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 03 Jul 2012 01:40

I am arguing the other way that "all" car people are not necessarily rich anymore, at least in KL.

There are the beginner users who pay Rs1-2L and buy a used car...then there are the "luxury" NRI and IT-VIty guys who buy their BMWs and Audis

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 03 Jul 2012 01:40

FromIndia Road-Building Hits Record as Builders Pay to Work: Freight

..
builders stop asking for subsidies and instead offer fees to lay and operate new toll roads.
..
Construction companies have stepped up bids for highways as growing vehicle ownership is spurring traffic and because of a slowdown in other sectors such as building power plants. The work will improve roads (LT) ranked worse than Botswana’s by the World Economic Forum and ease congestion that contributes to about 440 billion rupees of harvested foods going to waste each year
..
The national highway system, a predominately two-lane network linking major cities, carries 65 percent of India’s freight and 80 percent of passenger traffic.
..
Winning bidders get to collect tolls for as long as 30 years before transferring the highways to the state, Suresh said. Toll fees are decided by the National Highways Authority.

The highways have become more lucrative for builders and the government as the rising number of cars and trucks boosts traffic and tolls. India’s car sales in the year ended in March jumped 30 percent, the biggest gain in at least nine years, according to Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers. Sales may triple to more than six million by 2018, Rothschild forecast in a December report.
..
“The premium bids are increasingly becoming a cause for worry,” he said. “The worry will start manifesting a couple of years down the line when you have to give the NHAI what you promised and also put in money to build the roads.”

L&T, the nation’s biggest engineering company, decides to make premium bids for projects based on factors including traffic expectations, competition from other roads, the type of traffic the highway will attract and the ease of construction,
..
L&T, based in Mumbai, has orders to build 100 billion rupees of roads, Subrahmanyan said. The builder boosted the number of road projects to 7,171 lane-kilometers in the first nine months of this fiscal year from 5,701 lane-kilometers a year ago, according to company presentations on its website. The number of power projects remained unchanged at 5 during this period.
..
“For investors, a company’s valuation seems to be driven by its orderbook,” said Agarwal. “If a company wins a bid, they see it as fantastic.”

Welspun Infratech Ltd., a unit of JPMorgan Chase & Co.- backed Welspun Corp. (WLCO), has won road projects worth 10 billion rupees since 1999

There's more to this than what meets the eye.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2012 01:45

Bade wrote:I am arguing the other way that "all" car people are not necessarily rich anymore, at least in KL.

There are the beginner users who pay Rs1-2L and buy a used car...then there are the "luxury" NRI and IT-VIty guys who buy their BMWs and Audis

I thought sometime back you said all rich beaming owners are actually locals... or was it somebody else in real estate dhaaga?

Perhaps they should have a minority tag to cars that is purchased with 1-2L.. and flash that to get the benefits?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jul 2012 11:07

Bade wrote:But Palakkad area is not a high density district from a casual driving around, even the alternate route via shornur, lakkadi seems very rural with plenty of space for a regular 2+2 divided highway.

I don't know if our cars have crossed each other,in this path

. The road from Thrissur to Shornur is a neat state highway, but I dont think it can be expanded any further. I have seen houses on both sides of the road. The Shornur->Ottapalam->Palakkad route was built using ADB funds. The agency also had made strict norms and did periodic checks, and that is seen in the road quality

. The road if you ask me is pretty wide, but I dont know if it can be made any wider. Especially in towns like Ottapalam the expansion is no more possible unless shops next to the road are all brought down. Now that would surely bring in a new "revolution & armed uprising"

. Byepassing such towns would require new land acquisitions. Secondly the problem which Dileep mentioned would come up here as well. From this road branches many other roads to other smaller towns. Either we have a toll booth at every junction, or make every one pay the same toll.

The only problem area is Walayar to Vadakkancherry, which as per NHAI is to be awarded.

Thanks for the link. I dont think any serious work has started on the Mannuthi to Wadakkanchery (Palakkad Dt.) has started. Guess the land acquisition is complete. But here again there are branch roads which join the NH are there. So again either we build toll booths at all these junctions, or go for a minimum toll which every one has to pay. Or else at all such junction points, build bridges with entry/exit privisions to be made and toll booths placed at these points. Example would be the NICE toll road at Bangalore and Kanakapura Rd. intersection. But this means more land required at every major junction.

All in all I feel that the work is going at a snail's pace mainly because the contractors suspicious about the help the state government may give, and the over all profitability.

BTW, a news report from Deepika.com (Malayalam only). The CM reiterates that tolled roads are a neccessity in Kerala, and only that can ensure that Kerala's road traffic demands are met.He plans to once again try to reason out with people who are against such roads.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Jul 2012 13:12

Sachin wrote: 1. Can be done only once the automatic mechanism/RFID equipments are put in place. So this would take time.

Not really. You will need toll booths at both end. You can either buy the prepaid RFID, or top up your existing RFID at the booth. You just need to install scanners at midpoints of pop centres, maybe five six places that will deduct toll.

2. If this is done, the protests would be at the state level and not at Thrissur Dt. level .

Not really. The amount per litre will be very small to worry. I think this is the best solution BTW.

3. Vehicle Tax would be applicable only for Kerala vehicles, right? The next whine would be that extra taxes would be levied on Kerala vehicles, but the road users would be people from other states .

Who said the out of state vehicles are not paying tax? All commercial vehicles do. You also can setup toll booths at the border to collect toll from out of state cars.

4. Th commercial establishments would not be happy here, and I expect strikes/harthals from these folks as well. The "Vyaapari..Vyavasaayi" teams would be up in arms.

They will, but they will not be able to get public support. See, they get a lot of business from highway, so pay up!!

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Jul 2012 13:14

Theo, please use Google Earth before making claims about KL not being different from other parts of India. I already posted info on the populated regions that are forced to pay Rs 50 for <10km highway usage. Show me such situation elsewhere please!!

vina · Post by **vina** » 03 Jul 2012 13:18

The best thing for Kerala is trains. And oh, if you want to take your car with you, maybe roll on-roll off kind of trains with cars on train bogies is the best. No need for any land acquisition then (sort of like trucks going long distance today). So, when it comes near your home town, just drive off the train to your house!

The only trouble is , you can't do Bangalore to Kochi in 9 hrs, it will take 19 hrs! But who cares, all equitable and socialistic onree. Of course you need one or two regular coaches in such train where you can stretch your legs and use the restroom. Cant stay cooped up inside your car for 18hrs or so.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jul 2012 14:42

Dileep wrote: Not really. You will need toll booths at both end. You can either buy the prepaid RFID, or top up your existing RFID at the booth. You just need to install scanners at midpoints of pop centres, maybe five six places that will deduct toll.

RFID based devices are not commonly used if I get it right. Even in Bengaluru only the elevated highway has such a configuration in place. Here again the usage of this device is minimum and people lose what ever time they gained by using the elevated road, by queuing up to pay the toll.

I do agree that once RFIDs become common, it would suit the Kerala scenario. Here again the chances of dodging the toll is very high. Vehicles with RFID gets the toll deducted automatically. How about a car with no RFID, getting into the tolled road at Mannuthi, saying that he plans to move out of the NH at Kodakara, and then drive all the way to say Angamali and then move out. For such cases the only way would be to have manned toll booths at every exit point.

I am not really an expert to comment on the other options

. Collectiving a levy from every vehicle entering the state would really choke up all check posts like Walayar, Aryankavu, Muthanga etc. As it is the road gets jammed when too many trucks enter these check posts. Hiking the fuel cost even marginally would ensure that the commie goons start their public property destruction campaign. It may be a 25 paisa increase, but even that would lead to a "revolution".

Considering Umman Chandi's call to the people to understand the reality of toll roads are going to stay etc. It is just some how bolstering a feeling that the moot point is people in Kerala do NOT wish to pay tolls, though they don't mind having a four lane highway all made available for them. More of the standard commie logic of "rob the rich, feed the poor.. and we commies ARE the poor".

vina wrote:The best thing for Kerala is trains.

Heh..heh. Hope you are being sarcastic. The double lines from PGT to TVC is now pretty much saturated. A train crosses point in this route every 15 mins. Railways routinely say that they cannot run any more trains on this route. But Keralites are now asking for more commuter trains. Don't know how the working time tables can be tweaked to accomodate these as well. Chances of a new railway line is also pretty much out of the question. Land acquisition is a problem. The railways also have now told the state government that, the state gives the land and railway does the rest. Procuring land is state govt. responsibility. A new railway line between Guruvayur to Thirunavaya was scuttled because 30 families whose land may be taken refused to budge. The railway had done lots of resurveys to ensure that minimum number of people had to be rehabilitated. And rehabilitating 30 families were the last option they had.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Jul 2012 14:46

What I (and many like me) object is the completely unscientific tolling. I don't think there will be 'show stopper' objections if the toll is kind of equitable to the distance. the toll at Kumbalam at the south end is working fine now. It is Rs 15.

What is wrong with 10KM toll segments, each charging Rs 10? The L&T Tollway of Coimbatore operates that with no trouble at all. Of course, it will be a bit more expensive to run, but better than being unfair.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jul 2012 14:53

Dileep wrote:What is wrong with 10KM toll segments, each charging Rs 10? The L&T Tollway of Coimbatore operates that with no trouble at all. Of course, it will be a bit more expensive to run, but better than being unfair.

The L&T Toll way can be taken as an example. For a person driving down from Bangalore, I don't think he gains much time by using this toll road. Every 3-4 minutes you have to stop to show the toll ticket (or pay the toll). If there are more vehicles on the road, this causes delay at every point. People may have to spend 2 hours criss crossing Coimbatore city, so using the L&T byepass which takes 1/2 hour maximum is a bonus. But if the idea of the four lane highway between Mannuthi and Ernakulam is to provide an option for travel with a reasonable amount of speed (and thus gain time), then this toll both at every junction is only going to be harmful. It all depends on why the big wide four lane high way was built in the first place.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jul 2012 15:18

One distinction that TN could do without

For the second consecutive year, Tamil Nadu has earned the dubious distinction of reporting the highest number of road accidents and fatalities. The Accidental Death and Suicides in India (ADSI 2011) report released by the National Crime Records Bureau reveals that Tamil Nadu has recorded a staggeringly high 65,873 accidents, which accounts for 15 per cent of the country in 2011. Maharashtra, which has the highest vehicle population in the country, recorded a much lesser 47,120 accidents, which is the second highest in the country.

Interestingly, the four major southern states - Tamil Nadu (15 per cent), Kerala (8 per cent), Andhra Pradesh (9.3 per cent) and Karnataka (10.2 per cent) - accounted for 42.5 per cent of the road accidents in the country.

However, senior police officers say that it cannot be conclusively said that TN is the most accident-prone State based on these figures. “We are of the few States that have very systematic manner of reporting accidents. Here we have a Road Accident Data Management System in place and so we have more transparent manner of reporting the actual figures.

Many States don’t have such a system,” says a senior official. However, activists say the latest statistics must serve as a wake up call for the State government. According to the report, out of the total 1,36,834 road accident fatalities 11 per cent (15,422) are reported in TN and most of them are in the productive years. “In 2007, the State government framed a road safety policy with the objective of 20 per cent reduction in fatalities and injuries by 2013 considering 2006 as the base year with the State. But years down the line, the fatalities and injuries are only increasing,” says activist A Narayanan. He says drunken driving plays a major factor for the increasing number of mishaps. It also notes that the State records the highest number of accidents (18 per cent) between 6 pm and 9 pm. Motorbikes are the riskiest mode of transport accounting for 25 per cent of fatalities. Trucks and lorries accounted for 20 per cent fatalities. Around six per cent who lost their lives in road accidents are pedestrians.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Jul 2012 17:23

Yes, having 10KM toll band it is a bit of inconvenience, but you can't demand that people who use just 10km to pay Rs 50 for your convenience of zipping through.

As it is, you are going to slow down at every junction because of turning/merging traffic, which happens every 2-3km, so what is the bigg deal?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2012 18:30

gelf tax could be put on the rich.. and kerala can build multi-transport ways connecting from kasargo to thiru., as the terrain issues might constrain the plan, it would best thought of all in one express ways.. reducing the cost.

Trains + road + optic fiber network... perhaps waterways, where it can, if run parallel [but, please be taken one at a time.]. Yes, it would displace those house nearby.. bad luck, but Kerala is thinly populated, and they can be compensated. besides all, they are highly educated so, easy to understand the needs and wants of the state.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 03 Jul 2012 18:40

For people to zip around fast from Trivandrum all the way up to Kasargode the only feasible option is a fully access controlled expressway not a 2+2 or even a 3+3 lane grade level highway in KL. NH17 or NH47 hardly qualifies for that with towns and settlements every 500meters. These are to be treated like state highways and tolling them like other NHAI highways would create an uprising. An option would be to keep them as minimally tolled (people already pay Rs10 to cross the numerous bridges and would not revolt) as Dileep suggests and try something like BETL(?) over the NH-7 in Bengaluru for faster access with much higher tolls where BMWs, Ferraris and other ITVity big wigs and NRIs can enjoy smooth fast access.

Separate the local traffic from intra-state and inter-state long distance travellers who are willing to pay the toll for a smoother ride.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 03 Jul 2012 18:43

Saik, the Kerala expressway idea from a decade ago was exactly what you propose and was scuttled.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2012 18:47

scuttled? why?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 03 Jul 2012 18:56

Environmentalists, commies and the like, the usual LDF vs UDF politics too must have played a part. It was minister Muneer's pet plan. Here is an old link. :-(
http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/jan/28kerala.htm

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2012 19:04

wow! people should vote it back in again, with a renewed feasible plan, and sub plans

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 03 Jul 2012 19:13

But land prices have gone 300% high over the last decade in KL, so land acquisition alone would be a huge cost now. It was estimated to cost 5000-6000 crores then, now may have to cough up close to 15,000 crores.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 03 Jul 2012 19:16

Sachin, if metro can run on pillars why not use existing railway land to do commuter only overhead tracks. No new land acquisition would be required then no ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2012 20:09

land acquisition should have done much earlier.. for that project should have been sanctioned in the first place.