PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Jul 2012 15:29

With Economy what you predict does not happen and what happens you wont predict , its similar to predicting when the World would end and you can find any number of dates if you just google and many compelling reasons by experts.

The chinese economy may fall or may not no one knows , same for Euro or US economy.

I doubt any of these economy will fall as they represent 3 major pillar of todays modern economy and their interdependencies means they wont let the other fall due to domino effect .....they might just slow down or crawl but eventually they would walk.

As a observer without much background in economics , I would say a stronger Chinese , US , Europe economy means eventually its good for us the Indian Economy and world economy.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 04 Jul 2012 16:34

+1 to that Austin

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 04 Jul 2012 18:29

jamwal wrote:Let me admit something first. I'm not knowledgeable about economics. I don't know how GDP, GNP, FDI and all those abbreviated things work. I really don't care about democracy vs communism thing.
My point is that all China bashers have been predicting a big fall which never seems to come. I could point out numerous equal=equal points between shortcomings of both nations, but I guess our Chinese friends can do it much better. Please spare the sarcasm if you reply.

I am not a big economist either jamwal saheb, neither am I interested in china bashing (nor is anyone else here I believe). All this china bashing starts when the dlones come up with their idiotic logic and start their oral diarrhea on this dhaaga. Also, before jumping to conclusions, please check the reports that most of the members (amitji,Theoji,VikramSji, and others) have commented on. It takes time for a 7 trillion dollar economy to come down, especially when most of the factors are controlled by the ccp in their favour. I never said it was a democracy vs communism thing, I only said, all this great hoopla that many people from "democratic" society (not particularly you, but the apologists in general) make would disappear if they were to live in the chinese society. CCP literally is the parent of an mentally/physically/emotionally disabled child, who,although wants to dream and fly big, is heavily controlled and captured by CCP. Now times have changed for sure, but CCP still retains a lot of control on how people live their life, they decide when a couple can have a child and when can they let him choose his own occupation. There are literally 1000s of protests going on all over china, I bet, if you were Indian, you would have either gone mad or would have committed suicide in such a society. Everything comes at a cost, chinese are paying it under CCP, Whites paid it during victorian era (in london), Americans too paid it in the 1800s and early 1900s. Indians haven't paid much at all. Sure, they had famine and all that, but we have never been controlled by an upper entity, and I strongly think we should be as it would make our society more disciplined. I would post chinese torture methods that are used by police on civillians to maintain social order on the next few days.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Jul 2012 19:58

The khanomist rag pukes invective at PRC's noble system in this vile article NSFW if you're in PRC only.

And acts all haughty n indignant when the inevitable happens and thew noble PRC takes exception to their vile bile. sample this:

Update, 5.30am GMT: At this hour not only Bloomberg's news sites are blocked in China, but also the page that hosts the article you just read. The rest of our site seems to be unaffected. You can check its status on WebSitePulse. Try inputting www.economist.com alongside:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/analects ... -and-power to see the difference.

Sample the lies here....

Perhaps even more troubling for the Party is the surge in scepticism over how such wealth seems to find its way into the hands of officials and their families, not to mention into those of their beloved Swiss bankers, English boarding schools and Australian estate agents. Particularly galling are the reports about the great number of officials who have taken to working “naked”. That is to say, many officials are working in China while their wives, children and, presumably, a chunk of the motherland’s money take residence overseas. A report released last year estimated that as much as $120 billion may have been transferred abroad by corrupt officials.

The Chinese media have been given greater freedom to report on corruption and the financial shenanigans of large companies of late. Which makes it all the more striking that reporting on the business activities of the Central Committee’s wives and offspring is still strictly forbidden.

So one can only imagine the consternation caused by yesterday’s sensational exposé by Bloomberg, which details the financial assets belonging to the family of China’s president-in-waiting, Xi Jinping. Bloomberg was careful to note that no part of their investigation directly implicated Mr Xi, his wife, herself a famous PLA officer-cum-singer, Peng Liyuan, or their daughter, who is reportedly studying at Harvard University under an assumed name. The Bloomberg report suggests that other close relatives of Mr Xi have been blessed with abundant good fortune, to put it mildly. The article ties Mr Xi’s sister Qi Qiaoqiao, her husband Deng Jigui, and another brother-in-law, Wu Long, to assets worth hundreds of millions of dollars, or even billions. Their holdings are reported to include stakes in real estate and telecommunications, as well as the sensitive business of producing rare-earth minerals.

The government’s response to the Bloomberg report was predictable. Both the Bloomberg and Businessweek websites are currently inaccessible inside China’s “great firewall”. Although access to Bloomberg Professional, an essential tool for businesses and China’s financial elite, so far remains unaffected.

It is often speculated that families of officials at all levels of Chinese government are benefiting financially from their access to power. In a country where even a state newspaper argues in favour of allowing a “moderate amount of corruption”, should it come as a shock if some of the people in power seek to monetise their positions through favours and largesse?

Read it all. vile bile I tell you....aakthoo only.

member_23626 · Post by **member_23626** » 04 Jul 2012 20:05

^^The more I visit this thread, the more I understand why chi-pak are tallel than mountain fliends

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 05 Jul 2012 12:19

Hari Seldon wrote:The khanomist rag pukes invective at PRC's noble system in this vile article NSFW if you're in PRC only.

And acts all haughty n indignant when the inevitable happens and thew noble PRC takes exception to their vile bile. sample this:

Update, 5.30am GMT: At this hour not only Bloomberg's news sites are blocked in China, but also the page that hosts the article you just read. The rest of our site seems to be unaffected. You can check its status on WebSitePulse. Try inputting http://www.economist.com alongside:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/analects ... -and-power to see the difference.
Sample the lies here....

Perhaps even more troubling for the Party is the surge in scepticism over how such wealth seems to find its way into the hands of officials and their families, not to mention into those of their beloved Swiss bankers, English boarding schools and Australian estate agents. Particularly galling are the reports about the great number of officials who have taken to working “naked”. That is to say, many officials are working in China while their wives, children and, presumably, a chunk of the motherland’s money take residence overseas. A report released last year estimated that as much as $120 billion may have been transferred abroad by corrupt officials.

The Chinese media have been given greater freedom to report on corruption and the financial shenanigans of large companies of late. Which makes it all the more striking that reporting on the business activities of the Central Committee’s wives and offspring is still strictly forbidden.

So one can only imagine the consternation caused by yesterday’s sensational exposé by Bloomberg, which details the financial assets belonging to the family of China’s president-in-waiting, Xi Jinping. Bloomberg was careful to note that no part of their investigation directly implicated Mr Xi, his wife, herself a famous PLA officer-cum-singer, Peng Liyuan, or their daughter, who is reportedly studying at Harvard University under an assumed name. The Bloomberg report suggests that other close relatives of Mr Xi have been blessed with abundant good fortune, to put it mildly. The article ties Mr Xi’s sister Qi Qiaoqiao, her husband Deng Jigui, and another brother-in-law, Wu Long, to assets worth hundreds of millions of dollars, or even billions. Their holdings are reported to include stakes in real estate and telecommunications, as well as the sensitive business of producing rare-earth minerals.

The government’s response to the Bloomberg report was predictable. Both the Bloomberg and Businessweek websites are currently inaccessible inside China’s “great firewall”. Although access to Bloomberg Professional, an essential tool for businesses and China’s financial elite, so far remains unaffected.

It is often speculated that families of officials at all levels of Chinese government are benefiting financially from their access to power. In a country where even a state newspaper argues in favour of allowing a “moderate amount of corruption”, should it come as a shock if some of the people in power seek to monetise their positions through favours and largesse?

Read it all. vile bile I tell you....aakthoo only.

Hmmmm is this some typo...or did the post get edited....clicking the first link takes me a new posting box...

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 05 Jul 2012 18:23

^^ If so I apologize. This story tops the most commented list in the current economist.com site.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/analects ... 010184c684

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jul 2012 10:02

Valuable Gains for Chinese cars in Emerging Markets

Bottom line, cut price cars, with appalling quality, crappy designs, negligible safety, sold on price .

In the words of the article to quote

The shortcomings of Chinese cars tend to lie in basic designs. Chinese automakers spend an unusually low share of revenue on design, focusing on ruthless cost-cutting instead.

So, no. Never a Tata Nano like intelligent and careful design and engineering, producing high quality at incredible price points and that too profitably. The Chinese, model is take/steal an existing design, put some off beat names ..Geely, Cherry or GreatWall or something, cut corners everywhere (materials, safety, quality, refinement..), and sell at cut price rates against "benchmark" .

Really the traditional Chinese industry play book. And then we have Panda drones come here and talk about "2nd year design student" , coming and doing great designs and engineering. That simply so sophomoric and asinine.

The source of Panda's "competitiveness" are 1) Design theft/bought out outdated designs and platforms 2) Minimal need to do any engineering whatsoever 3) Use cut price components seriously compromised on materials, quality 4) Zero safety 5) Care nothing about NVH. and of course sell it at marginal markets at cut rate prices at just about break even prices.

For eg, look at the shutlines on the hood of this Chinese car , with panel gaps large enough to put your entire hand in, indeed, it looks like hood is open!
China's Hot Shot export

vs
the shutlines of the cheapest car in India,

Tata Nano

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Jul 2012 10:35

The way they stole Pulser design and tried selling it as gulshar said a lot about their ADVANCEMENT

wong · Post by **wong** » 06 Jul 2012 19:54

vina wrote:
For eg, look at the shutlines on the hood of this Chinese car , with panel gaps large enough to put your entire hand in, indeed, it looks like hood is open!
China's Hot Shot export

vs
the shutlines of the cheapest car in India,

Tata Nano

It's an accent line. LOL. Somebody please also tell Mercedes-Benz they can't beat the mighty Tata Nano in panel gap quality.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jul 2012 21:15

wong wrote: It's an accent line. LOL. Somebody please also tell Mercedes-Benz they can't beat the mighty Tata Nano in panel gap quality.
Old E Class Photo

Actually, what you posted proves my point. What you have copied is a late 90s Mercedes E class styling , of which the Chinese did a pretty bad job and on top of that, the picture you posted is not of a car in pristine condition, but one that has taken absorbed a few blows in the front bumper.

If you REALLY want to see, how the shut lines look like in a CURRENT E class, look here Current E class front view . So, show me the panel gaps in the current model.

Things have advanced in terms of build quality since mid 90s, you know... but looking at the Chinese car, it looks like a botched copy job and panel gaps large enough to put the flat of your palm in!

wong · Post by **wong** » 06 Jul 2012 21:31

^^^^

That's not a dented Mercedes. That gap is an intentional accent line. Here is a press photo of a 2002 E320.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jul 2012 21:38

wong wrote:^^^^

That's not a dented Mercedes. That gap is an intentional accent line. Here is a press photo of a 2002 E320.

The Photo you posted earlier indeed had the bumper out of alignment. There is a clear uneven gap between the chassis below the headlamp and the bumper. The bumper has taken a hit and gone out of alignment and you see that extra large gap in just above the chrome piece on the bumper.

Notice, it is nearly 10 years since 2002, the panel gaps have gotten narrower, tolerances have gotten better all over the world, except in Chinese cars it seems! For eg, log at the latest E class or for a down to earth thing look at the Nano

!

wong · Post by **wong** » 06 Jul 2012 21:41

^^^^

It's a styling cue. Tata couldn't make a 2002 Mercedes today (any 2002 Mercedes) for all the money the world.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jul 2012 21:49

wong wrote:^^^^

It's a styling cue. Tata couldn't make a 2002 Mercedes today (any 2002 Mercedes) for all the money the world.

Just shows how misinformed you are. For that matter, until very very recently, EVERY Mercedes made in India was built in large part at Tata Motors (their relationship goes back some 50 years) and Mercedes used the Tata Motors paint shop for their cars and many of the assembly was done there . So yeah, Tata did build a large part of the 2002 mercedes E class in India! The MB assembly line in India was integrated /right next to the Tata Motors plant in Pune.

I think it is only VERY recently that MB in India have put up their own paint shop! So, when did MB use Cherry/Geely or any of the Chinese guy's facilities to actually make MB cars in China ? Did they use their paint shops (which is the single most expensive bit of a car assembly line and easily the one with the most difficulty to get consistent quality) or even just their wheel tightening stations , not to mention all the test, and other infra ?

wong · Post by **wong** » 06 Jul 2012 21:59

^^^

That's not what I meant. Both BMW and Mercedes uses Magna Steyr of Austria to assemble some cars. Porsche has used Valmet Automotive in Finland. It doesn't mean either Valmet or Magna Steyr could build BMW or Porsche from scratch.

Maybe Tata's Jaguar could build a 2002 Mercedes in the UK, but not TATA.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jul 2012 22:10

wong wrote:^^^

That's not what I meant. Both BMW and Mercedes uses Magna Steyr of Austria to assemble some cars. Porsche has used Valmet Automotive in Finland. It doesn't mean either Valmet or Magna Steyr could build BMW or Porsche from scratch.

Maybe Tata's Jaguar could build a 2002 Mercedes in the UK, but not TATA.

I have no idea what you mean.

A car assembly plant is just that. Assemble a car from components. The Porsche built at Valment is claimed by many to have better quality than the ones built by Porsche themselves. And yes. Both Steyr AND Valment build BMW and Porsche from scratch, just like any other BMW assembly plant.

Obviously unless you have the jigs and fixtures for a particular car's assembly, no assembly line can assemble that particular model.

The most sophisticated and expensive parts are the paint shops, and the Tata Motors paint shop (the latest ones at the Nano plant are among the best out there anywhere in the world), was more than good enough to paint MB cars in India right from the day they were built here! So, show me anyone using a Geely or GreatWall or Cherry paint shop to assemble a top of the line luxury car.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Jul 2012 22:20

What's the point of comparing a super cheap sub-sub-compact for the masses (Nano) with one meant to impress in exports (the Chinese one with that fat woman beside), much less a mid-range luxury car (an E-class) ? Please stop trolling, wong. Tata's high end vehicles, especially their trucks (they're primarily known as a heavy vehicle maker and not a carmaker - they only made their first cars ~15 years ago) are quite nice.

Mercedes has both car and truck production facilities in India:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-ca ... hakan.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BharatBenz

Chinese bikes in India have a terrible reputation for quality. There used to be a time when the local makers feared their entry, but not any longer - they ruined their reputation themselves. Ditto for Chinese power equipment - they break down in 1-2 years while BHEL equipment remains far more reliable (but harder to acquire because BHEL can't churn it out fast enough or as cheap, with a $20 billion backlog). This isn't just bald criticism - I think it's admirable that China is achieve such a level of scale of production and sell stuff cheap on generous credit terms - India could learn a lot on rapidly expanding scale of output in pretty much every area from PRC - but you have a known reputation for poor quality associated with that vast volume, except in some niche areas.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 06 Jul 2012 22:30

Falling Star
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB500 ... rticle%3D1

One of the comments in here perfectly describes China

As Rosemary Righter pointed out in Abelson's article, China exhibits the worst excesses of crony capitalism, rampant corruption, gross misallocation of resources, outrageous inequality, with corresponding public anger, distrust, and contempt. And i thought she was for the most part talking about America

Is China Running Out of Steam?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/c ... wdown.html

This week, China stepped up its efforts to reverse the deepest slowdown since the global financial crisis in the world’s second-biggest economy. It cut interest rates for the second time in a month; since we weren’t expecting another cut before the end of the year, the move suggests that the first cut didn’t work, and a slate of new numbers due out next week is likely to give people the vapors.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/c ... z1zraDLsFG

Oh,The 5 Star Country is not shining after all.

wong · Post by **wong** » 06 Jul 2012 22:41

Suraj wrote:What's the point of comparing a super cheap sub-sub-compact for the masses (Nano) with one meant to impress in exports (the Chinese one with that fat woman beside), much less a mid-range luxury car (an E-class) ? Please stop trolling, wong.

The Chery S21 pictured in the New York Times article obviously copied the front styling cues from the W210 E-Class Mercedes. Since the gaps are there in the German original and the cheap Chinese car it influenced stylistically, it's not a manufacturing defect as originally claimed. It doesn't mean the Nano is superior in build quality to either the Chinese S21 or Mercedes W210 based purely on that hood gap. That's my only point.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 06 Jul 2012 23:15

AFAIK the German original does not have a hood gap. There is a perfectly formed metal cowling that seals to the hood and the bumper. This is how Mercedes gets the perfect spacing and evenness of the lines to work. While copying, the el-cheapo Panda model forgot all that and went for gap. There by creating ugly unsightly uneven lines with bits of the engine showing through.

The true situation is how such unbearable ugliness was created from such beauty....

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 06 Jul 2012 23:23

wong wrote: The Chery S21 pictured in the New York Times article obviously copied the front styling cues from the W210 E-Class Mercedes. Since the gaps are there in the German original and the cheap Chinese car it influenced stylistically, it's not a manufacturing defect as originally claimed.

What is this thread? Some sort of a confessional? Very OT

Anyways, interesting line of thought on those gaps. If a Mercedes CEO farted in a 2002 Berlin autoshow, by 2012, a Cherry CEO will figure out it is due to bratwurst and be able to fart with same smell. The drone who sniffed the original fart in Berlin, will be there to certify that Chery CEO is no longer inferior to Merc CEO in any respect.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 07 Jul 2012 07:56

Chinese carmakers to face hard time moving up-market; need to perfect processes and technology

vina · Post by **vina** » 07 Jul 2012 08:36

wong wrote:The Chery S21 pictured in the New York Times article obviously copied the front styling cues from the W210 E-Class Mercedes. Since the gaps are there in the German original and the cheap Chinese car it influenced stylistically, it's not a manufacturing defect as originally claimed. It doesn't mean the Nano is superior in build quality to either the Chinese S21 or Mercedes W210 based purely on that hood gap. That's my only point.

Ok. Lets have some perspective here.

Chery Motors, gets a older Daweoo Matiz platform "surreptitiously" /discared picked up the dies and stuff through some dodgy means , has no rights on the car's design and produces the Chery QQ . The doors and nearly every panel ,are interchangeable with the original, now owned by GM (you could take a door from a QQ and fit it on the Matiz for eg). The only panel not interchangeable is was probably the front bumper and hood.

No look at the so called "new model" called QQ 6 from Chery . Is it REALLY a new platform. No way in hell. It is the same earlier Daweoo Matiz /stolen QQ platform, with the only things added is a clumsy boot and in addition to the big round Matiz headlamps, now a pair of "smaller" headlamps are added to imitate a Mercedes styling and some visual differentiation from the Crappy QQ , the same old tweaks to the front hood and bumpers, now coming with a hideously poor shutline. The Chinese clone QQ was never any great shakes in build quality, but the QQ-6 is even poorer.

So there you are, protestations to contrary, the QQ-6 is the same old stolen/2nd hand/discarded dies/jigs based QQ, with a boot added and a "nose job" and some garish interiors.

All the engineering that happened in the Cherry S21/QQ-6 is to add a hideoous boot and a pair of smaller head lamps and botched nose job

So NOW you know the "seclet sauce" of the vely vely Special Low China price.. Discarded/2nd hand dies, no spend on engineering /development, abysmal quality and safety (look up the Autobild test of the Chery QQ), and compromises in materials and reliability.

This is FUNDAMENTALLY different from a Tata Nano kind of ground up engineering.

Wong, the Tata Nano is built to far higher quality and safety standards than the Chery QQ or QQ-6. The original Matiz was a great package. The Tata Nano is simply a brilliant package and with very high build basic quality. What it "lacks" is probably features and stuff when compared to higher priced cars. But on basic meat and potatoes (safety, emissions, quality), it is right there with anyone else.

For eg, it has probably more interior space than the current gen Chevy Spark (the current gen Matiz) or maybe even it's replacement, the Chevy Beat!

Compare the two. Notice the size and shape of the doors.Also not exactly where the "larger" headlamps are, where the front panels meet the hood above the engine bay, where the lower part of the hood changes shape just below the bigger headlamps.

Result is this ugly looking abomination that is not going to win any beauty and design contests anywhere.
http://world-viewer.com/data_images/che ... s21-05.jpg

Compare it with this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _Nano_.jpg

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 07 Jul 2012 08:50

some of you may know that I am ex TATA. I still have classmates there who are now pretty high up. The nano design was done in a way that very few cars are done these days. They basically started from the scratch and ended up with a car that's lighter, spacier, safer, more fuel efficient and cheaper than the M800. That is no mean feat. It takes a good engg team with original thinking to do that. This is no audi or bmw, but I can bet that they can't make a nano either.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Jul 2012 11:40

News Analysis: China promotes yuan convertibility

BEIJING, July 4 (Xinhua) -- Nearly ten years after China started to relax some of its capital controls, the country is now making more aggressive steps toward that end.

The country's top economic planner on Friday unveiled a raft of measures targeted at south China's city of Shenzhen, including trials for cross-border loan issuances to boost the free conversion of China's currency, the yuan.

The measures also cover issues related to taxation, education, medical treatment, telecommunications, legal matters and the introduction of new talent, according to the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC).

China vowed in 2003 to gradually ease its grip on cross-border capital flow and ultimately open its capital account as part of the country's efforts to turn the yuan into a global reserve currency.

A cooperative zone in Qianhai Bay, approved in 2010 by the State Council, or China's cabinet, is part of the government's plan. The zone was approved to promote cooperation between Hong Kong and Shenzhen, the country's two most important financial centers.

The zone will provide new investment channels for Hong Kong's yuan deposits, boosting the region's status as an offshore yuan center.

Hong Kong banks will be able to conduct cross-border yuan financing, which will play a crucial role in promoting offshore yuan business in the city, said Xie Guoliang, a senior analyst for Bank of China Hong Kong.

"There will be new challenges concerning transactions of personal assets and derivatives. We must make sure that banks are ready for cross-border risks," said Pei Chuanzhi, president of the China Foreign Exchange Trade System.

In view of the current environment at home and aboard, both the timing and conditions are right for China to make the yuan freely convertible under the capital account, said Zhao Xijun, deputy dean of the School of Finance at Renmin University.

China's rise as a global economic power has made its currency more attractive than others, especially after the global financial crisis in 2008, which has led to a persistent economic slump in the United States and debt woes in the eurozone.

Some economies and regions have adopted the yuan as an official exchange reserve currency, while others are actively expanding the yuan's use in cross-border trade settlements with China.

The yuan has now become the world's third-largest trade settlement currency, with the share of yuan settlements amounting to 7 percent of China's goods trade and 15 percent of its service trade.

"Obviously, the yuan has a long way to go to become an international reserve currency. There is a mismatch between the yuan's global status and China's economic strength," said Gao Guoxi, a professor at Fudan University in Shanghai.

The U.S. dollar, the euro, the British pound and the yen are the major global reserve currencies, with 60 percent of global exchange reserves in dollars.

The technical barrier for the yuan to become a global reserve currency has been its inconvertibility, although China made its current account fully convertible in 1996.

China has stepped up reforms to open its capital account this year. The reforms have included the establishment of a pilot financial reform zone in the eastern city of Wenzhou to encourage the participation of private capital in reforms of local financial institutions, as well as the adoption of a wider floating band for the yuan against the U.S. dollar.

The country's central bank in June also moved to boost market-oriented interest rates, allowing lenders to offer 10 percent more on deposit rates and a 20-percent discount on lending rates.

According to Hu Xiaolian, vice governor of the People's Bank of China, or the central bank, 75 percent of the items under the nation's capital account currently have a high degree of convertibility.

"Given that the super-sovereign currency can not replace sovereign currency as a reserve currency in the foreseeable future, any economic power, including China, will pursue the goal of making its currency globally accepted," Gao said.

With a narrowing trade surplus, diminishing pressure on a stronger yuan and a smaller interest margin between overseas and domestic markets, China is capable of fully opening its capital account by the end of 2015, said Ma Jun, chief economist at Deutsche Bank Greater China.

However, some foreign investors still worry about whether the reforms will suffer from the government's general reluctance to take economic risks.

At last week's Shanghai Lujiazui Forum, the opening of yuan capital accounts was in the spotlight. Participants from the government and trading centers pointed out that although China has largely maintained cautious economic policies, it is now determined to take action.

Zhou Yuan, chief advisor at the China Investment Corporation, said a new set of market mechanisms should be created to control trading risks.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 07 Jul 2012 13:25

^^^^
China is concentrating on yuan trading deals with certain countries only: Brazil, Russia, Australia, Japan, UAE etc. Coincidentally, all these countries supply raw commodities to China (except for Japan, which supplies components) and China is their biggest trading partner (and many run a trade surplus with China too). It is more advantageous for them this way.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Jul 2012 10:00

Chinese inflation eases to 2.2% in June

zlin · Post by **zlin** » 10 Jul 2012 02:26

China overtakes Japan in Fortune 500 ranks

WASHINGTON — China overtook Japan on the Fortune Global 500 for the first time on the list of the world's biggest companies by revenue, the US business magazine said Monday.

While US companies held the plurality of slots on the list, with 132 US firms featured, Chinese companies came in second, with 73, followed by 68 Japanese companies.

China's ascent marked the addition of 12 companies to the prestigious list, while the number of European firms fell to 161 from 172 in 2011.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 10 Jul 2012 06:58

zlin wrote:China overtakes Japan in Fortune 500 ranks

Shocking!!! not that China has more companies than Japan in the fortune 500 but, the fact that none out of that 73 is capable of producing a brand like Sony, Nintendo, Sharp, Toshiba, Panasonic, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi etc.

wrdos · Post by **wrdos** » 10 Jul 2012 07:54

Brand = some lifestyle that is envied by others, so it is a privilege belonging to rich countries only. Even it is as tiny as Switzerland or Sweden.
Please name a country with per capita GDP less than $20,000 but owning a brand like Sharp or Toyota, OK?

China is a country with a per capita GDP around $5,400, but her infrastructure and company technology level far above most if not every country with a GDP level less than $20,000. And the country is climbing step by step every year. It is why China can export all kinds of equipment around the world {deleted}

anishns wrote:
zlin wrote:China overtakes Japan in Fortune 500 ranks

Shocking!!! not that China has more companies than Japan in the fortune 500 but, the fact that none out of that 73 is capable of producing a brand like Sony, Nintendo, Sharp, Toshiba, Panasonic, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi etc.

Pattom · Post by **Pattom** » 10 Jul 2012 08:39

wrdos, if I pimped out my wife and daughters I could make a lot of money very quickly. Especially if I set them to work early morning to late night. I'd make some good money, buy a mansion, fancy cars, and so on. And I can boast how good my products are and how superior I am to the neighbor, who subsists with a low-wage job and does not take the fast track to quick wealth. I can do so until, that is, my breadwinners get STDs or lose their youth and attractiveness due to over-use. So, crow while you may. You're paying a heavy price for it. Your people are obsessed with appearance, not substance. Your self-worth is based on how you think others perceive you. What a shame!

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 10 Jul 2012 09:34

Pattom wrote:wrdos, if you pimped out your wife and daughters you could make a lot of money very quickly. Especially if you set them to work early morning to late night. You'd make some good money, buy a mansion, fancy cars, and so on. And you can boast how good your products are and how superior you are to the neighbor, who subsists with a low-wage job and does not take the fast track to quick wealth. You can do so until, that is, your breadwinners get STDs or lose their youth and attractiveness due to over-use. So, crow while you may. You're paying a heavy price for it. Your people are obsessed with appearance, not substance. Your self-worth is based on how you think others perceive you. What a shame!

This is downright personal attack at its lowest form. It speaks volume about the poster. Mods?

Waylan · Post by **Waylan** » 10 Jul 2012 09:58

now what the hell is this?

Pattom wrote:wrdos, if you pimped out your wife and daughters you could make a lot of money very quickly. Especially if you set them to work early morning to late night. You'd make some good money, buy a mansion, fancy cars, and so on. And you can boast how good your products are and how superior you are to the neighbor, who subsists with a low-wage job and does not take the fast track to quick wealth. You can do so until, that is, your breadwinners get STDs or lose their youth and attractiveness due to over-use. So, crow while you may. You're paying a heavy price for it. Your people are obsessed with appearance, not substance. Your self-worth is based on how you think others perceive you. What a shame!

Pattom · Post by **Pattom** » 10 Jul 2012 10:29

What I wrote was not a personal attack. I was pointing out that you can 'progress' economically by ignoring human liberties and the environment and by selling out your future for immediate financial gain. That is what China's achievements mean. It's a ponzi scheme - your government sacrifices the health of its people, encourages unjust labor practices, perpetuates enormous waste of natural resources, and steals every technology it can lay its hands on - all so that you can pretend to be modern, prosperous and superior. Your so-called achievements have come at the cost of long-term misery, social injustice, and a lowering of personal and societal integrity. So you really have no basis for coming here and sneering at us!

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 10 Jul 2012 10:43

Pattom wrote:What I wrote was not a personal attack. I was pointing out that you can 'progress' economically by ignoring human liberties and the environment, by selling out your future for immediate financial gain. That is what China's achievements mean. It's a ponzi scheme of sorts. Your government has sacrificed the health of its people, tolerated unjust labor practices, encouraged enormous waste and stolen every technology it can lay its hands on by any means - just to give the appearance of modernity and prosperity. So don't come here and sneer at us lesser mortals!

If you replace "you" and "your" with "I" and "my" in that post, I am sure no one has any problem. Can you go back to your post to do that? You are saying you are trying to make a point. If you can do that, I believe you. And you are still making your point.

Pattom · Post by **Pattom** » 10 Jul 2012 10:48

If you replace "you" and "your" with "I" and "my" in that post, I am sure no one has any problem. Can you go back to your post to do that? You are saying you are trying to make a point. If you can do that, I believe you. And you are still making your point.

Done!

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 10 Jul 2012 10:56

Pattom wrote:
If you replace "you" and "your" with "I" and "my" in that post, I am sure no one has any problem. Can you go back to your post to do that? You are saying you are trying to make a point. If you can do that, I believe you. And you are still making your point.
Done!

Thanks. And I get your point.

Pattom · Post by **Pattom** » 10 Jul 2012 11:03

I may be somewhat presumptuous here in claiming to express a group sentiment, but I think there is no love lost on this forum for China. So, if you make statements like "India can only export resources or some servant service," you naturally risk the ire of posters like me. By the way, my wife's grand-uncle was India's first ambassador to China and - in my view - one of those primarily responsible for our loss in the Sino-Indian War and the Chinese annexure of Tibet. So I carry around that shame with me always!

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 10 Jul 2012 11:35

bottom line in any argument is not to bring in a person's family members. I hope we have at least that decency.