Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_22872 » 11 Jul 2012 00:56

Kaushal ji thanks.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby ramana » 11 Jul 2012 02:13

SaiK wrote:
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-and-culture/article3621306.ece?homepage=true


roman traders turned later european looters.. first they came, and saw.. and then found wealth. looted off!.. and now they continue to loot the heritage.



Actually Romans paid for their stuff in gold. Pilny complains about how the wealth of Rome was being transferred to India due to the Roman desire to possess the silks and spices from India.

Also gold doesn't have intrinsic value for the Europeans. It got the currency value only due to trade with India which would accept only gold as the currency. And Indians associate gold with Lakshmi and Aishwaryam/Wealth.

I got this insight from Acharya.

BTW, silver is used for China trade.
Braudel's comments.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby SaiK » 11 Jul 2012 02:19

interesting insight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold
This wiki needs update on Gold- cultural history.. from the ancient indic times.
from usage point of view, assuming we are the highest consumer than producer.

inversely, from past ancient gold coin trade, we could establish how the world interacted with us., and learned many things in exchange by way of spice and cereal trade.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby SaiK » 11 Jul 2012 02:48

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-an ... 605798.ece

This temple has been mentioned in the four Vedas and worshiped by the Vedic scholars with vastrarpanam and hence the name.



could someone get more details?

Some of the pieces have been damaged because of the rough handling of the consignment by the policemen.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 613138.ece
Buddhist artefacts worth millions — possibly dating back to the first century
Dug up in Swat

Since the collection is not part of any museum, Pakistani archaeologists are working under the premise that these artefacts were dug up from Swat — where the Gandhara form of sculpture flourished — when the Taliban overran the


with pakis hand, nothing will be safe for us.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_20292 » 11 Jul 2012 03:00

^^

any website where we can read the ancient indian texts...the useful parts?

I mean..websites that dont give the literal translations...."cut horse, add ghee" but more interpretive. ???

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby shiv » 11 Jul 2012 07:01

SaiK wrote:When did (date) they first formulated this AIT? who was the founding ait-nazzi father?


There is no "exact date" and no single individual. It was an across the board idea. Please read Rajiv Malhotra's "Breaking India" Just the first 2 chapters will tell you.

The theory was firmed up by 1900 as this scan of a 1900-1910 book shows
Image

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby SaiK » 11 Jul 2012 08:59

IIT Madras Part 1 - Rajiv Malhotra talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1fdkGgC ... ure=relmfu

'm seeing it now

--
fantastic!
http://www.youtube.com/user/BreakingIndia

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_20317 » 11 Jul 2012 10:39

Shivji,

Was reading Being Different yesterday. Seems like the nonsense started during what was called the Romantic Age during 1700 and 1800. With big names getting mentioned. And the story is much like it is today. Uropains come with preconceived notions about how their ‘source’ must be like, then they get shocked looking at the SDRE who shares absolutely nothing of the Uropain and then they start philosophizing like Hegel did – ‘India has no history’ carried forward by early day Witzels. Lead in the main by the Germans who unlike the French had no real history and could not like Brits create their own mythology and were getting pilloried for being the reason for the destruction of Rome etc. Basically the kind of people who later on provided the basis for Nazism amongst the Germans.

Shivji looking at the last 300 years from Indic perspective, Colonialism = Nazism, plain and simple. Both quack like ducks both walk like ducks, so depending upon what your Swabhaav is you can accept any of the following conclusions:
1) Both are ducks,
2) There is a conspiracy to make one look like the other.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Murugan » 11 Jul 2012 10:44

Ramana-ji

Bharat also mined gold; in prehistoric and ancient times, Bharat produced 50% of asia's total gold.

http://www.imhc.co.za/assets/pdf/R%20K% ... 20Prof.pdf

***
People of Bharat were literally crazy about silver. Sometimes paid/bartered equal amount gold for Silver.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 11 Jul 2012 13:45

mahadevbhu wrote:^^

any website where we can read the ancient indian texts...the useful parts?

I mean..websites that dont give the literal translations...."cut horse, add ghee" but more interpretive. ???

Please search here. May be you will find what you are looking for.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 11 Jul 2012 14:25

Online Books

AIT-Nazi Thinking

Image


Publication Date: 1919
Author: H.G. Wells
The Outline of History: Being a Plain History of Life and Mankind

14.4 The Early Civilization of India

The history we need to tell here of India is simpler even that this brief record of Egypt. The Dravidian peoples in the Ganges valley developed upon parallel lines to the Sumerian and Egyptian societies. But it is doubtful if they ever got to so high a stage of social development; they have left few monuments, and they never achieved any form of writing.

Somewhere about the time of Hammurabi or later, a branch of the Aryan-speaking people who then occupied North Persia and Afghanistan pushed down the north-west passes into India. They conquered their way until they prevailed over all the darker populations of North India, and spread their rule or influence over the whole peninsula. They never achieved any unity in India; their history is a history of warring kings and republics.

The Persian empire, in the days of its expansion after the capture of Babylon, pushed its boundaries beyond the Indus, and later Alexander the Great marched as far as the border of the desert that separates the Punjab from the Ganges valley. But with this bare statement we will for a time leave the history of India.


This was written before the excavations in the Indus Valley started.

But that was the thing. Writer upon writer pushed the same nonsense of Aryans marching into India and taking over the dark heathendom.

The Aryans would be romanticized with their simple living and nature gods and civilized ferocity ??? while the Indians would be disparaged.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Lalmohan » 11 Jul 2012 15:21

rajesh-ji, i see you are still spending valuable time in playing the old tapes, and not in recording new ones! :)
IMHO all you will do is upset yourself and disperse your energies, which are better spent in forward looking analysis

we should study how indic culture spread east and north further to better understand how it spread west and north west. geographically speaking, the west and northwest spread had fewer impediments than the north and east - therefore is likely to have happened much earlier. We know that it was via trade and religious education missions. Towards the east i am guessing that we encountered more passive like minded peoples, whilst in the west we encountered more warlike people, who after a while, evolved into new forms and forgot their vedic roots...

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 11 Jul 2012 16:05

There is one personality that truly muddies the waters, and tries to fudge the difference between Indians and National Socialist Movement in the West. So before I go into the writings of this writer there are things that need to be said beforehand.

I have noticed that there are two streams of thought within the Euro-American Nazi movement - The Euro-Aryan Christian and the Euro-Aryan Aryan. Both movements are obsessed with race, roots and origins. In fact I would go as far as saying that World War II took place between these two movements. Since the military defeat of the Euro-Aryan Aryan Movement, there have been many efforts by many writers to look for some unified mythology between these two movements where the transition from Aryan Gods to Christ is smooth, and the movement can find a common home. The entente between the two is often tried to be strengthened with further ideology like the Green Movement.

The Germans during the Nazi period were of course the upholders of the banner of Euro-Aryan Aryan movement and so they dabbled in all forms of occultism and foreign belief systems like Hinduism. Theirs was an anti-Judean movement and they wished to purge all Jewish influence from their midst, so they used Hindu symbols and some Hindu-inspired mythology to replace that Jewish influence. They were far less antagonistic towards Christianity but hardly impressed by it.

The Anglo-Americans on the other hand were the flag-bearers of Euro-Aryan Christian Movement, however for the sake of their military victory, they were willing to dilute their ideological stance and instead restate it as if they were fighting for 'Freedom'. This enabled them to conscript many other lands and peoples in their movement like Afro-Americans and Indians.

The Euro-Aryan Aryan Movement of course wished to graft itself to Hindu-inspired icons and myths, even though ideologically Hindus could find no meeting ground. But strategically some felt that Indians could use the Axis powers to overthrow the British rule in India. Of course the Germans too were interested in seeing that the British Flagship - India not be hospitable for the British. So the interest of the Germans was ideological and strategic while the interest of the Indians was ONLY strategic. This was the only time when Indians and Germans - Hindus and Euro-Aryan Aryans ever neared each other. As far as ideology was concerned the Indians under the British rule were hardly in a position to fully understand the ramifications and drivers of the Euro-Aryan Aryan Movement. Indian flirt with Germans was solely limited to getting Independence for India, and nothing more, and it was mostly confined to the time period of World War II, and very few Indians really undertook this flirt.

But for the last two and a half centuries, the whole Euro-Aryan Movement, whether Aryan or Christian has been antagonistic towards Indians, considering them as Aryans contaminated with intermixing with the dark heathen, and thus unworthy of respect or dignity.

They have continued to conjure their origins-mythology as white blond blue-eyed horse-riders believing in nature gods who came from the Eurasian Steppes. In the process they have laid waste to Indian history and Indian dignity.

The reason why Indians and Euro-Aryans (Aryans or Christians) can never have an ideological meeting point is because our definition of 'Arya' is one which particularly rejects a racial basing. It is behavior based, it is nurture based, whereas European definition of 'Aryan' is race based, it is nature based. We cannot become of their race (nor would we want to) and they wont become of our disposition, our worldview. That worldview would have abhorred the killing of Jews and Roma and Sinti people. That worldview would also abhor the rape of history of a people for one's own psychological satisfaction.

However during the limited Indo-German flirt in the backdrop of India's Independence struggle and World War II, there arose one woman, a European, who took upon herself to condescendingly lecture Indians on how we should conduct our business, and that too with the Euro-Aryan Aryan origins and sympathies. Her name was Savitri Devi Mukherjee (born as Maximiani Portas).

It is for the reason that her first sympathies were with the Euro-Aryan Aryan Movement, and her worldview was formed by their philosophy and interests, that we Hindus would reject her as a personality cognizant of and loyal to the interests of Indians.

However as a personality that had played a pivotal part in the formulation of the current Neo-Euro-Aryan Aryan Movement (Neo-Nazis), it is academically interesting to study her and her writings.


Image

Publication 1939
Author: Savitri Devi
A Warning to the Hindus


Image

Publication 1940
Author: Savitri Devi
The Non-Hindu Indians and Indian Unity


Image

Publication 1956
Author: Savitri Devi
The Lightning and the Sun

Image

Publication Date: October 1, 2000
Author: Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke
Hitler's Priestess: Savitri Devi, the Hindu-Aryan Myth, and Neo-Nazism

I think it is important to mention her role as well, one who muddied the waters.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 11 Jul 2012 16:12

Lalmohan wrote:rajesh-ji, i see you are still spending valuable time in playing the old tapes, and not in recording new ones! :)
IMHO all you will do is upset yourself and disperse your energies, which are better spent in forward looking analysis

we should study how indic culture spread east and north further to better understand how it spread west and north west. geographically speaking, the west and northwest spread had fewer impediments than the north and east - therefore is likely to have happened much earlier. We know that it was via trade and religious education missions. Towards the east i am guessing that we encountered more passive like minded peoples, whilst in the west we encountered more warlike people, who after a while, evolved into new forms and forgot their vedic roots...

Lalmohan ji,

that tape you played was also old! :wink:

There is much to study and much which has lost form and become unclear. In time we shall do all this.

However AIT is a beast of the past, and in order to kill the beast, we need to understand how it was born and nurtured to become this damaging to us, Indians.

The study of European phobias and inferiority complexes based on their loss of their history, the study of their racism, would show that instead of the Europeans being the dons of objective and scientific thinking, they were indeed little men with big medals. A study of their past theories on Aryan origins is necessary to because if we study them they become the object and we become the subject, and that is power!

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby SaiK » 11 Jul 2012 16:23

Lalmohan wrote:Towards the east i am guessing that we encountered more passive like minded peoples, whilst in the west we encountered more warlike people, who after a while, evolved into new forms and forgot their vedic roots...

I hope you are only talking about cultural invasioninfluence...
you are not talking about race/color correct?

We have zero cultural influence towards the west...with a huge barrier of islam in between deserting any approach.

I would leave both AIT, and OIT, and focus on our uniqueness first. If we start comparing, then we will not find answers [thanks shiv for the malhotra link].

btw, I am not putting any breaks on OiT at all by this... look east, you can trace more than the west... i think west countered largely because of their religion and messiahs... thanks to the mountains.

This I am saying due to the fact that AIT concept only began very recently [100 years back]. considering a vast past and history, we should consider AIT as born dead [must have thrashed it during MG days itself].

We (the unknown indics) are just denying our uniqueness a chance to survive explicitly, but consider our past for intrinsic and family inheritance purpose. That should stop, and spread them to public use.

I think we are lost in the world of language itself, because we don't speak our languages anymore.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby devesh » 11 Jul 2012 21:20

RajeshA garu

excellent synopsis. your categoies of "Euro Aryan Aryan" and "Euro Aryan Christian" are enlightening and easily give a distinction between the 2 forces. and their motivations also you describe clearly.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 11 Jul 2012 22:40

devesh ji,

both these movements, "Euro-Aryan Aryan" and "Euro-Aryan Christian", are however in perfect agreement as far claiming the fictional "Aryan" narrative goes thus denying the Indians their indigenism. For the "Euro-Aryan Christian" Movement it has the additional advantage that using the manufactured Aryan-Dravidian divide, they can convert Tamils en masse.

At the international level, that is why it would be very difficult for Indians to upturn non-Indian homeland for some imagined Aryans.

That is why we need the support of other nations who are not so invested in the Aryan Invasion Theory, either in the Euro-Aryan Aryan Movement nor in the Euro-Aryan Christian Movement. We need other ("Aryan") nations like Slavs, Greeks, Armenians, Albanians, to accept and support the Indian Indigenism and the Out-of-India Theory. Perhaps the fact that this Aryan Theory stuff is an Anglo-German Project may give them pause to think and reconsider.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 11 Jul 2012 22:51

There is so much material here. I hope someday some Indian writes a book analyzing the historical European psychology and their interests with respect to imagined Aryan origins deconstructing the European thinking.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Agnimitra » 11 Jul 2012 23:13

RajeshA ji, very succinct post.
RajeshA wrote:However during the limited Indo-German flirt in the backdrop of India's Independence struggle and World War II, there arose one woman, a European, who took upon herself to condescendingly lecture Indians on how we should conduct our business, and that too with the Euro-Aryan Aryan origins and sympathies. Her name was Savitri Devi Mukherjee (born as Maximiani Portas).

Its interesting, though, that she was married to a Bengali. I wonder whether her condescenscion for Indians is based on race, or based on the morass that Indians have gotten ourselves into. I have seen a lot of the spiritual movements that have come out of this throbbing link between the West and India. There is a great deal of admiration, love and sympathy with Indic culture. Some of these movements were occultist and their associations and processes were vague, such as theosophy, agni yoga, etc. Others have come out with a vigorous association and documented processes and theory, such as scientology. I have found it interesting to view ourselves through their eyes.

They all have a deep love and admiration for Vedic India as well as an original sort of Buddhism. they draw their legitimacy from there. they also have a thinly veiled condescension for the Abrahamic cultures. Moving further, they also speak critically of Greco-Roman civilization, which they think imbibed Vedic memes through the filter of the middle east.

But there is the clear recognition that at some point Indic civilization was "cross-wired" in some way that shorted the whole system and fused significant operating parts out of circuit. Clearly Indics had lost the political economy and technology that could protect, control, adapt and enhance Veda in present time. Now what exactly this cross-wiring was is theorized differently. Perhaps some of them had put it down to genetics and improper cross-breeding, having observed the pseudo-eugenic birth-based caste system within India, and putting it down to an original Vedic meme improperly followed. But many of the others among these do not have that view. You will see amongst North American spiritual circles that it is considered prestigious (in an occult way) to have some Native American blood. So its not as if they all have a racial contempt for Indians or other races.

So I think the picture you painted was a succinct description of widespread socio-political trends - with many followers who themselves do not realize where they pick up their ideas from. But I think there is significant space within the thought-leader space of these movements where Indians can engage fruitfully. But the first criteria of this will have to be socio-economic development and regeneration within India itself. Already the current economic growth story about India is gaining respect and heartening many partisans of Indic civilization in the West. Further such development along with a coherent cultural awakening will be most welcome. E.g. revival of Sanskrit.

My point is that while we maintain a continuous critique of the aberrant versions of this identity politics in the West, we should not ridicule their yearning, nor reject them as outcasts who never had anything to do with Veda. Rather, we should appreciate their appreciation for Veda, and then step up to the task that is expected of us. Many of us will be surprised at how welcome we will be. America may be Hanuman, but they need a Ram. JMT.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_20317 » 11 Jul 2012 23:13

I was reading something on Mitannis.

Seems like the Mitanni layer is right on top of the Akkadian layer and yet the theorising bas_...s have put in a 700 year gap in between. Basically Akkadians flew off to Jupiter and Mitannis came from Krypton and that is to be gulped down without water.

Further what i gathered on the isotope dating methodology is that somebody (obviously historians) provide a likely date or even perhaps a bunch of likely dates to the isotope lab and that forms the parameter for the whole thing.

Looks like History is truely an Art. A not so fine but liberal art. Liberal with truth that is :)

Anyhow it is here that I believe we can demolish the facade put up by the west. In fact looking at it all, that is how the west was forced to back off to the extent it has. The world is bearing witness to the doings of these colonialists and that is one of the reason why Indology is a dying infatuation in Ivy League. And thank god for that.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 11 Jul 2012 23:32

Carl ji,

it is true what you say about various movements. I would consider it positive if Indians can get involved in various functions and have some influence on the ideologies of these movements.

However with Savitri Devi, the case is that she tries to build an ideological bridge between National Socialism and Hinduism, even though Hinduism wishes no such bridge with a political system and ideology which has caused so much sin and adharma. Secondly her sympathies with National Socialists were with a party who too had been involved in AIT, which denied us Indians are rightful indigenism. That is why we cannot embrace Savitri Devi despite her pro-Hindu sentiments. That is why I took up Savitri Devi's case in this thread.

Though in general I agree with you.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Agnimitra » 11 Jul 2012 23:40

RajeshA ji, yes absolutely. Your critique is valid. We do need to keep up a more proactive, refined critique - appreciating the good and criticizing the nonsense or the harmful.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby SaiK » 12 Jul 2012 00:22

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-mal ... 37376.html
Rajiv Malhotra's article.

European Misappropriation of Sanskrit led to the Aryan Race Theory

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-mal ... 41606.html
How Evangelists Invented 'Dravidian Christianity



http://beingdifferentbook.com/video-index-page/
video index of Rajiv Malhotra

apologies if these are already linked here.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby svinayak » 12 Jul 2012 01:29

Carl wrote: There is a great deal of admiration, love and sympathy with Indic culture. Some of these movements were occultist and their associations and processes were vague, such as theosophy, agni yoga, etc.


They all have a deep love and admiration for Vedic India as well as an original sort of Buddhism. they draw their legitimacy from there. they also have a thinly veiled condescension for the Abrahamic cultures. Moving further, they also speak critically of Greco-Roman civilization, which they think imbibed Vedic memes through the filter of the middle east.


My point is that while we maintain a continuous critique of the aberrant versions of this identity politics in the West, we should not ridicule their yearning, nor reject them as outcasts who never had anything to do with Veda. Rather, we should appreciate their appreciation for Veda, and then step up to the task that is expected of us. Many of us will be surprised at how welcome we will be. America may be Hanuman, but they need a Ram. JMT.


This deep love and admiration of Indic is only to find their roots and antiquity. The Evangelists who saw their white folks turn towards the eastern religions took control of the study in the west and are trying to connect the AIT to finally the history of Christianity with no success.
They are trying to deplete the eastern population with conversion who will hate the AIT and bring more tension between the non aryans and aryans.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby svinayak » 12 Jul 2012 01:36

Kaushal wrote:The book i am talking about is my latest book , T
"The origins of astronomy, the calendar and time"
available at lulu.com, also available at amazon. but the lulu price is cheaper. do a google on my name; KosLa VEPA, YOU will get the full details.



http://www.lulu.com/shop/kosla-vepa/the ... 65271.html

Here is the link for people to buy this book.
We need at least 100 copies to be bought by BR folks

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby SaiK » 12 Jul 2012 01:52

request to whom have read Kosla ji's book, please write some reviews on amazon. it would be helpful.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_22872 » 12 Jul 2012 02:52

I think it is fine to include and appreciate western yearning to know India and belong to it's civilizational shadow. But without us regaining a firm grip on our own history, any invitation for them to study us could be bad, we need to take reins, we need to dictate them what needs to be studied and lead the path than they studying it and twisting the facts to their convenience and preset prejudices, look at the mushrooming of these aryan experts, they pontificate us, they talk with authority over our history, they belittle and pay no respect to our scholars, who gave them the power? us by giving up our part of asserting our history, any early invitation and brotherhood with goras should be considered with skepticism. Think of nascent India, if only GoI allowed multinationals to open shop, our local industries wouldn't have had a chance what so ever, same is the case with our history and past.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby SaiK » 12 Jul 2012 02:56

Do you think undoing what goras did is so easy? This Aryan-Dravidian problems exists mostly within the desh. What are you going to do about it? Yes, external influence, trigger and money, evil forces etc are there to fool the aaam. But the fooled people still is desh's karma and headache.

text books. can GoI change it for truth sake? put out a list of things to do, and tackle it from there.. all these has to be home grown. if 1 billion can be strong, nothing can penetrate us., at least in the future.

Another invasion of the land (even the soft type - EJs, Xian, Neo-Mughals (bollywood), hollywood, etc), is what needs to prevented, and reversed.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_22872 » 12 Jul 2012 03:12

Any government can't suppress mass movements. Truth about AIT has to spread far and wide. Only dedicated effort can make it possible. It is my opinion that we need educators, many of them who know facts and are determined enough to educate others. Make mothers be aware of history, they will educate their kids, who doesn't remember the MB and Ramayana stories our grandmothers told us? Education is the only means to take back our past from time thieves.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby shiv » 12 Jul 2012 07:02

Kaushal I know you have put in a lifetime's knowledge into your book and I have no idea how much you may have spent on it. But if you are not intending to try and make up the capital expense on hard copy sales I would suggest putting it up as an e book for Amazon Kindle or other e book format download at something like US $5 or less, assuming that there are no other contractual obligations that prevent this.

In my view the world is moving towards e books, and that paper books will remain restricted-reach collectors' items. And educated Indians nowadays can only be reached via English - so in that sense you are already on track.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby A_Gupta » 12 Jul 2012 07:56

The difficult path ahead.
http://thefishpond.in/seema-duhan/2011/speaking/

What led Kaushal Panwar – a girl born in the most marginalised caste of ‘Valmiki’ among the subaltern Dalit castes of a village ‘Rajoud’, Kaithal District, Haryana, to become Dr. Kaushal Panwar – a Sanskrit Scholar? {Stories of adversities conquered, discrimination overcome}.......Her knowledge of holy texts and scriptures of Hinduism written in Sanskrit has made it clear to her that casteism, spiritualism and superstitions are the pillars holding this faith and have created a fallacy around it.


The fact is that to the typical "liberal" or "secular" Hindu, the solution is to bury Sanskrit and to bury the past.

e.g., Ramachandra Guha:
http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-ar ... eral-light

The French sociologist Louis Dumont famously described Indians as “Homo Hierarchicus.” Certainly, no other civilization had such rigorously elaborated social divisions. The suppression of untouchables in traditional India was far more substantial than that of serfs in medieval Europe. The oppression of women was a constitutive feature of Hindu and Islamic traditions. Unlike Christianity, both encouraged polygamy; one refused to allow widows to re-marry, while the other proscribed women from appearing in public places (including in schools).


etc. "Constitutive feature" - really????? What Ramachandra Guha is saying is that a Hinduism without oppression of women is not really Hinduism, is unimaginable.

It is with this mindset, with this reputation in mind, that the "seculars" think that the whole Hindu tradition is a blemish that should be quietly made into a museum piece, just keeping the little aesthetic arts that might be exportable.

In the face of this, a rebirth of the Sanskriti, the Sanskritic culture is needed. Whomever attempts it will be accused of many things, looking backwards instead of forward, trying to revive the inequities of the past, of being obscurantist. Courage and perseverance will be needed.

People treat the writings of the Hindu past as a finished canon, as unchangeable as, say, the Quran; whereas the truth is that we can have new seers who compose anew. (In that context, http://www.infinityfoundation.com/ECITm ... ameset.htm ).

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Murugan » 12 Jul 2012 09:48

Kosla Vepa-ji's books are also avaialble with Fipkart. Delivery Time is 6-8 days since it is imported. And at a good price too for Hard Cover edition

The Origins of Astronomy, the Calendar. and Time
http://www.flipkart.com/origins-astrono ... 091f727dae

Vepa-ji's other books

http://www.flipkart.com/search/a/all?qu ... &selmitem=

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Murugan » 12 Jul 2012 09:50

Other recommended book:

The South Asia File :A Colonial Paradigm of Indian History Altering the Mindset of the Indic People - by Kosla Vepa

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Arjun » 12 Jul 2012 11:30

A_Gupta wrote:What Ramachandra Guha is saying is that a Hinduism without oppression of women is not really Hinduism, is unimaginable.

Guha is illustrative of the stink emanating from current Western social science 'academia'.

If a monumental moron like Guha - more known for his articles on cricket and precious little by way of academic qualifications in history - can be conferred the grandiloquent title of 'Philippe Roman Chair of International Affairs and History' at the LSE; why does this same 'academia' dismiss Shrikant Talageri, whose books have way more research backing them, as a 'clerk' with no authority to write on Indology?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 12 Jul 2012 13:51

Off-Topic

A_Gupta wrote:etc. "Constitutive feature" - really????? What Ramachandra Guha is saying is that a Hinduism without oppression of women is not really Hinduism, is unimaginable.

It is with this mindset, with this reputation in mind, that the "seculars" think that the whole Hindu tradition is a blemish that should be quietly made into a museum piece, just keeping the little aesthetic arts that might be exportable.

What all the anti-Hindu elements in India and abroad assert quite often is that Hindu Dharma has had no evolution. They rake up some obscure line from Manusmriti or Brihadaranyaka Upanishad or some place else, twist it around, and considering that mostly only translations from Western Indologists of these texts are more or less the only ones online, the twisting too becomes easy, and then by focusing on it, claim that it is a constituent part of Hinduism, it has never been reformed, it has just as much prevalence as say the Muslim namaz, all Hindus are practicing it, being adamant about keeping it, and cutting down other people who make the blasphemy of either criticizing it or not complying with it.

Much too often they use the Semitic template to analyze Hinduism.

One response to these guys is: "Don't use Semitic templates to analyze Hinduism or make claims about it!"

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 12 Jul 2012 14:02

Arjun wrote:can be conferred the grandiloquent title of 'Philippe Roman Chair of International Affairs and History' at the LSE

Indians need to create a positive list of respectable faculties in Western academic institutions as well as a negative list of faculties which are considered unscientific, mediocre or pursuing political and ideological agendas, and a black list of all faculties who are pursuing an anti-Indian political and ideological agenda.

With those on the positive list, one can cooperate.
Those on the negative list, one ignores completely.
Those on the black list, they are to be considered enemies, and actively denounced and denigrated.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 12 Jul 2012 17:12

Online Books

Aryan Superiority Writings

I was reading what Wikipedia had to say on the subject. Some of the people, who contributed to the theory of Aryan superiority are listed below with their works.

Image

Publication 1884
Author Arthur de Gobineau
Essai sur l'inégalité des races humaines (Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races)


Image

Publication 1883
Author Karl Penka
Origines Ariacae: Linguistisch-ethnologische Untersuchungen zur ältesten Geschichte der arischen Völker und Sprache
(Origin of Aryans: Linguistic-Ethnological Studies of the oldest History of Aryan People and Languages)

Karl Penka also wrote "Die Herkunft der Arier" (The Origin of the Aryans)!


Image

Publication 1888
Author Charles Morris
Aryan Race - its Origins and its Achievements

Image

Publication 1889
Author Sarah Elizabeth Titcomb
Aryan Sun-Myths - The Origin of Religions [@scribd]

Then there was another book by Georges Vacher de Lapouge, "L'Aryen et son rôle social" (1899, "The Aryan and his Social Role").

All these people tried to make the case that true Aryans were xanthochroi (fair-skinned, whites), dolichocephalic (longish skulled), blond, blue eyed and they were supposed to rule over all the brachiocephalic (short-skulled)!

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 12 Jul 2012 17:13


RajeshA
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 12 Jul 2012 19:20

Published Sep 05, 1989
in Indian Journal of History of Science
By S.A. Paramhans
Department of Applied Mathematics, Institute of Technology, Banaras Hindu University
Astronomy in Ancient India - Its Importance, Insight and Prevalence.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 12 Jul 2012 19:25

Indian Astronomy @Wikipedia

This is what Wiki says! Perhaps Kaushal ji can comment on this.

As with other traditions, the original application of astronomy was thus religious, and would be considered astrology in modern terminology. Hindu astrology was heavily influenced by Hellenistic astrology during the early centuries of the Common Era, notably by the Yavanajataka, a Sanskrit translation of a Greek text disseminated from the 2nd century.
By the early centuries of the Common Era, Indo-Greek influence on the Vedanga tradition becomes evident with texts such as Romaka Siddhānta and Yavanajataka. Later astronomers mention the existence of various siddhantas during this period, among them a text known as the Surya Siddhanta. But these weren't fixed texts but rather an oral tradition of knowledge, and their content is not extant. The text today known as Surya Siddhanta dates to the Gupta period and was received by Aryabhata.
With the rise of Greek culture in the east, Hellenistic astronomy filtered eastwards to India where its profound influence became apparent in the early centuries AD. For example, Hellenistic astronomy is known to have been practiced near India in the Greco-Bactrian city of Ai-Khanoum from the 3rd century BCE. Various sun-dials, including an equatorial sundial adjusted to the latitude of Ujjain have been found in archaeological excavations there. Numerous interactions with the Mauryan Empire, and the later expansion of the Indo-Greeks into India suggest that transmission of Greek astronomical ideas to India occurred during this period. The Greek concept of a spherical earth surrounded by the spheres of planets, vehemently supported by astronomers like Varahamihira and Brahmagupta, supplanted the long-standing Indian cosmological belief into a flat and circular earth disk.

Several Greco-Roman astrological treatises are also known to have been imported into India during the first few centuries of our era. The Yavanajataka ("Sayings of the Greeks") was translated from Greek to Sanskrit by Yavanesvara during the 2nd century CE, under the patronage of the Western Satrap Saka king Rudradaman I.[citation needed] Rudradaman's capital at Ujjain "became the Greenwich of Indian astronomers and the Arin of the Arabic and Latin astronomical treatises; for it was he and his successors who encouraged the introduction of Greek horoscopy and astronomy into India."

Later in the 6th century, the Romaka Siddhanta ("Doctrine of the Romans"), and the Paulisa Siddhanta ("Doctrine of Paul") were considered as two of the five main astrological treatises, which were compiled by Varahamihira in his Pañca-siddhāntikā ("Five Treatises"). Varahamihira wrote in the Brihat-Samhita: "The Greeks, though impure, must be honored since they were trained in sciences and therein, excelled others....." Another Indian text, the Gargi-Samhita, also similarly compliments the Yavanas (Greeks) saying: "The Yavanas are barbarians yet the science of astronomy originated with them and for this they must be revered like gods"., while the Mahabharata compliments them as "the all-knowing Yavanas" (sarvajnaa yavanaa), "The Yavanas, O king, are all-knowing; the Suras are particularly so. The mlecchas are wedded to the creations of their own fancy."

Indian astronomy reached China with the expansion of Buddhism during the Later Han dynasty (25–220 CE). Further translation of Indian works on astronomy was completed in China by the Three Kingdoms era (220–265 CE). However, the most detailed incorporation of Indian astronomy occurred only during the Tang Dynasty (618–907) when a number of Chinese scholars—such as Yi Xing— were versed both in Indian and Chinese astronomy. A system of Indian astronomy was recorded in China as Jiuzhi-li (718 CE), the author of which was an Indian by the name of Qutan Xida—a translation of Devanagari Gotama Siddha—the director of the Tang dynasty's national astronomical observatory.
Fragments of texts during this period indicate that Arabs adopted the sine function (inherited from Indian mathematics) instead of the chords of arc used in Hellenistic mathematics.[33] Another Indian influence was an approximate formula used for timekeeping by Muslim astronomers. Through Islamic astronomy, Indian astronomy had an influence on European astronomy via Arabic translations. During the Latin translations of the 12th century, Muhammad al-Fazari's Great Sindhind, which was based on the Surya Siddhanta and the works of Brahmagupta, was translated into Latin in 1126 and was influential at the time.


:eek: :shock:
Last edited by RajeshA on 12 Jul 2012 20:39, edited 1 time in total.


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