HERE COMES THE IAC | Navy beefs up security at Wellingdon Island with IAC float-out | Round-the-clock surveillance for INS Dronacharaya soon





With respect to aircraft carriers, India has to plan for 2050. From a financial standpoint, if India's economy grows at 6% per annum, then the Indian GNP (PPP) in 2050 will be twice that of the US of today! Certainly India can easily AFFORD a handful of carriers of the Vikrant class by then. Most certainly India will also NEED a handful of carriers by then, assuming that a country's defense responsibilities are proportional to the size of the economy, in order to protect that commerce.
Why do you need area defense SAM on a carrier? It's no going to sail solo, so there will be at least couple of escorts with Barak8 and Shtil.Austin wrote:RAN-40L is an excellent Long Range Radar so good news for Vikrant , they already have it on Italian carrier Cavour
Vikrant AD would be E/L-2048 AESA Radar , Barak-8 LR-SAM ,Barak-1/AK-630M CIWS
It certainly wont sail alone but it wont do any harm either considering they would have E/L 2048 as MFR and Barak-8 comes natural to it , will give it a self defence capability of its own beyond CIWS, after all Soviets deployed the Shipwreck anti-ship missile on so called air capable cruiser.SNaik wrote:Why do you need area defense SAM on a carrier? It's no going to sail solo, so there will be at least couple of escorts with Barak8 and Shtil.
Depends what you are building, Austin, a carrier or a cruiserAustin wrote:It certainly wont sail alone but it wont do any harm either considering they would have E/L 2048 as MFR and Barak-8 comes natural to it , will give it a self defence capability of its own beyond CIWS, after all Soviets deployed the Shipwreck anti-ship missile on so called air capable cruiser.SNaik wrote:Why do you need area defense SAM on a carrier? It's no going to sail solo, so there will be at least couple of escorts with Barak8 and Shtil.
Cross posting from "China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011" thread:rajrang wrote:With respect to aircraft carriers, India has to plan for 2050. From a financial standpoint, if India's economy grows at 6% per annum, then the Indian GNP (PPP) in 2050 will be twice that of the US of today! Certainly India can easily AFFORD a handful of carriers of the Vikrant class by then. Most certainly India will also NEED a handful of carriers by then, assuming that a country's defense responsibilities are proportional to the size of the economy, in order to protect that commerce.
So, if India can build a new 60K to 90K carrier every 7 years then, over the 40 year lifespan of each ship, India would have a half a dozen carriers of the Vikrant class by 2050. The production facilities in Cochin can be kept going continuously. At any time at least 4 should be available assuming that one is under re-fit and another preparing for the same. Perhaps beyond IAC-3 the ships can be nuclear powered.
At a minimum, IN will be able to dissuade TSP from overtly joining China, in the event of an India-China confrontation. (Think of a debilitating naval blockade. High speed transportation links across the Karakorums will not completely offset that.) Without a powerful navy, the probability of India facing a two front war will be higher.
Comparing the above with the IN's projected CGBs, it will be the following by 2020/25:srai wrote:How China is advancing its military reach
The 3 PLAN carrier battle groups totals out to the following:...
It is thought that China plans to build three aircraft carrier battle groups, each armed with 40 fighters, up to eight warships, three nuclear-powered attack submarines and a number of support vessels. The PLA Navy's retrofitted Varyag carrier, currently under sea-trials, will serve as a training platform.
...
- 3 x Aircraft Carriers + 1 x training/reserve carrier
- 120 x Fighters
- 24 x FFG/DDG
- 9 x SSN
- ?? x Support Ships (at the minimum 3 to 6 x Large Fleet Tankers)
I recd a reply from the company. the information has been added on the scope and the time of delivery.chackojoseph wrote:Italian radars for India's new aircraft carrier INS Vikrant
Roma, 16th January 2012
SELEX Sistemi Integrati signs news contracts in India and Ukraine
SELEX Sistemi Integrati, a Finmeccanica company, recently signed two contracts for a total value of 10 million euros with the Indian shipyard Coching Shipyard Ltd and with the Ukrainian air service provider UkSATSE (Ukrainian State Air Traffic Service Enterprise).
Through the purchase order issued by the Indian Coching Shipyard Ltd. SELEX Sistemi Integrati will deliver an air surveillance naval radar RAN 40L and an IFF radar which will equip the new Indian aircraftcarrier under realization for the Indian Military Navy.
The RAN-40L is a 3D long range early warning radar with fully solid state active phased array antenna able to assure the detection of aircrafts up to 400 kilometers.
The philosophy of the radar design has been intensively proven on the land based 3D RAT-31DL, the most long range surveillance radar ever provided worldwide to the NATO Countries.
SELEX Sistemi Integrati has been in India since 1972 with its own radar systems.
In the naval field, the Finmeccanica company supplied three command and control systems in 1984 for the Godivari and Bramaputra class frigates, besides the relevant logistic support. More recently, following this long standing relationship, SELEX Sistemi Integrati also realized radars and systems for air traffic control to be set up in the airports of Bangalore and Hyderabad.
The company is also providing the Indian Navy and Air Force with the PAR2080C system, a Precision Approach Radar. ………………..
Selex Press Release
srai wrote:Cross posting from "China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011" thread:rajrang wrote: With respect to aircraft carriers, India has to plan for 2050. From a financial standpoint, if India's economy grows at 6% per annum, then the Indian GNP (PPP) in 2050 will be twice that of the US of today! Certainly India can easily AFFORD a handful of carriers of the Vikrant class by then. Most certainly India will also NEED a handful of carriers by then, assuming that a country's defense responsibilities are proportional to the size of the economy, in order to protect that commerce.
So, if India can build a new 60K to 90K carrier every 7 years then, over the 40 year lifespan of each ship, India would have a half a dozen carriers of the Vikrant class by 2050. The production facilities in Cochin can be kept going continuously. At any time at least 4 should be available assuming that one is under re-fit and another preparing for the same. Perhaps beyond IAC-3 the ships can be nuclear powered.
At a minimum, IN will be able to dissuade TSP from overtly joining China, in the event of an India-China confrontation. (Think of a debilitating naval blockade. High speed transportation links across the Karakorums will not completely offset that.) Without a powerful navy, the probability of India facing a two front war will be higher.
Comparing the above with the IN's projected CGBs, it will be the following by 2020/25:srai wrote:How China is advancing its military reach
...
It is thought that China plans to build three aircraft carrier battle groups, each armed with 40 fighters, up to eight warships, three nuclear-powered attack submarines and a number of support vessels. The PLA Navy's retrofitted Varyag carrier, currently under sea-trials, will serve as a training platform.
..
The 3 PLAN carrier battle groups totals out to the following:
- 3 x Aircraft Carriers + 1 x training/reserve carrier
- 120 x Fighters
- 24 x FFG/DDG
- 9 x SSN
- ?? x Support Ships (at the minimum 3 to 6 x Large Fleet Tankers)
In terms of CBGs in the 2025 timeframe, there looks to be a parity between PLAN and IN.
- 3 x Aircraft Carriers (1 x Gorshkov, 2 x IAC-1/2)
- 90 x Fighters (45 x MiG-29K, 45? x NLCA)
- 26 x FFG/DDG (6 x Kirvak, 10 x P-17/A, 10 x P-15/A/B)
- 5 x SSN/SSBN (ATV 1/2/3/4/5) + 12 x SSK (6 x P-75, 6 x P-75A)
- 4 x Support Ships (Large Fleet Tankers)
Aditya G wrote:New INS Vikrant - April 2012 pics:
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4590 ... geview.jpg
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/5245 ... 55356f.jpg
NEW DELHI: Just when the US is seeking to "rebalance'' 60% of its formidable naval fleet towards the Asia-Pacific region, and China steams ahead to commission its first aircraft carrier this year, India's long-standing aim to operate two full-blown carrier battle groups (CBGs) by 2015 has taken a huge hit.
Construction schedule of the 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC), being built at Cochin Shipyard in defence minister AK Antony's home state, has "slipped another three years'' behind the already-revised timelines.
"The fact is IAC will not be ready anytime before 2017. In a recent high-level meeting, the Cochin Shipyard was sharply pulled up for this huge delay,'' said a defence ministry source.
The barely one-third finished IAC, to be christened INS Vikrant after the country's first carrier decommissioned in 1997, currently stands forlornly next to the bridge connecting Cochin Shipyard to the naval base there.
"IAC, whose keel was laid in February 2009, was to be 'launched' with a weight of around 25,000 tonnes by October 2010. But that is yet to happen. Prematurely floated out of the dry dock last December due to delays in gear boxes and other systems, IAC is just about 14,000 tonnes at present,'' he said.
The first contract for IAC till its "launch'', sanctioned in 2002-2003, was pegged at Rs 3,261 crore. But there has been a huge cost escalation since then, with the second contract from "launch to completion'' yet to be even inked.
This effectively torpedoes Navy's plan to have two potent CBGs by 2015. CBGs or carrier strike groups, capable of travelling 600 nautical miles a day with accompanying destroyers, frigates, submarines, tankers, fighters and other aircraft, project raw offensive power like nothing else around the globe.
As per plans, India's first CBG is to be centered on the 44,570-tonne INS Vikramaditya, or the refitted Admiral Gorshkov, which will be inducted by early-2013 under the revised $2.33 billion deal inked with Russia.
The second CBG was to revolve around the IAC. But Navy will now have to further stretch the operational life of its present solitary carrier, the 28,000-tonne INS Viraat, beyond 2014. Already over 50 years old, Viraat is also relatively toothless with just 11 Sea Harrier jump-jets left to operate from its deck. The 45 MiG-29K naval fighters, being procured from Russia for $2 billion, can operate only from Vikramaditya and IAC.
All this when US is going to deploy at least six of its 11 CBGs - each carrier is over 94,000 tonnes and can operate 80-90 fighters -- in the Asia-Pacific region. China, too, is moving fast ahead, holding aircraft carriers are "symbols of a great nation''.
China will take a few years to master CBG operations after it commissions its first carrier, the 67,500-tonne Varyag, undergoing sea trials at present. But it has an ongoing robust programme to build "multiple carriers'' in the decade ahead.
India also has a 65,000-tonne IAC-II on the drawing board but the delay in IAC-I has derailed it. The 260-metre-long IAC-I is supposed to carry 12 MiG-29Ks, eight Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and 10 anti-submarine and reconnaissance helicopters on its 2.5-acre flight deck and hangars.
With a crew of 160 officers and 1,400 sailors, IAC will have an endurance of around 7,500 nautical miles at 18 knots, powered by four American LM2500 gas turbines. It will be capable of a maximum speed of 28 knots.
Vikrant will fly both the Mig-29K and NLCA and so with Vikramadityashiv wrote:Well the Vikrant is going to fly with the NLCA
J-20 by 2018 for PLAAFBTW what dates have the Chinese announced for induction into service of their aircraft carrier and the J-20?
Thanks. Do you have a cite for this? I want to archive it and compare with reality after 2018. Sorry OTAustin wrote: J-20 by 2018 for PLAAF
Chengdu J-20 could enter service by 2018shiv wrote:Thanks. Do you have a cite for this? I want to archive it and compare with reality after 2018. Sorry OTAustin wrote: J-20 by 2018 for PLAAF
Put this in the predictions thread and lets wait and see. Everyone is allowed to predict, but no one is praised for being right or called out for being wrong.Victor wrote: Very likely, the IN will choose the latter as its standard shipboard fighter for the foreseeable future and keep a couple of NLCA sqdns on the ground. That would be one less unknown in the continuing tragicomedy.
I agree. For our region these shore shelling is still important and hence I have always wondered, are those old fashioned large WW II guns 16 inch+ in fashion anymore, on destroyers and like.Singha wrote:I hope our future LHDs are equipped with 2 x Oto127mm with those very long range 'vulcano' shells ... could be useful to cheaply pound shore targets from a fleet offshore. if colonial war/policing/anti piracy in IOR is their role, a cheap weapon with lots of refire is good to have vs all-or-nothing solns like SLCMs.
For anti piracy operations anything more than 56 mm is an overkill you don't want to be blowing those ships out of the water (especially if they are seized vessel or contain hostages). Ak-630 and Kashtan have been quite potent in our current operations. As for land bombardment it is too risky to come 10 km from enemy shore and engage land targets, you need to engage such targets beyond horizon (50 km+) to avoid counter artillery fire and missile batteries.ShauryaT wrote:I agree. For our region these shore shelling is still important and hence I have always wondered, are those old fashioned large WW II guns 16 inch+ in fashion anymore, on destroyers and like.Singha wrote:I hope our future LHDs are equipped with 2 x Oto127mm with those very long range 'vulcano' shells ... could be useful to cheaply pound shore targets from a fleet offshore. if colonial war/policing/anti piracy in IOR is their role, a cheap weapon with lots of refire is good to have vs all-or-nothing solns like SLCMs.
These are ALL project management related issues. Nothing to with a yard or a yard taking on a project.First they ran out of ship grade steel and had to wait for indigenous supply. Then the gearbox needed German redesign. Then the shafts were misaligned. Then the engines were delayed. Finally the ship was kicked out of the dry dock to make way for a civilian freighter.
Does not matter. IF the above problems are true and if they will rear their ugly heads the best yard will flop.One wonders at what point will the powers decide to give the vegetarian/bania private shipyards a try. IMO the LAC2 projecl should be shifted to the private sector wholesale, with full financial and R&D backing. It is quite possible that with 24/7 shifts and real management, LAC2 will come out before LAC1.
Now, if it is all on the drawing board, where is the derailment? I assume derailment should incur loss., and has a monetary value against it.India also has a 65,000-tonne IAC-II on the drawing board but the delay in IAC-I has derailed it.