India-US Strategic News and Discussion

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 16 Jul 2012 16:57

SBajwa wrote:

+1
it could be tentatively called "reversing evangelism"
I tell everybody in USA that comes across me asking me about my religion (sikh) . I tell them that even as I am a Sikh I do see Jesus Christ as an equal to Guru Nanak or Ramchandra or Krishna (a great hero). Which is truth as per my Dharma. "Devan Kao Aike Bhagwan" i.e. "Many Devtas (nobles Dharmic people) but one God" and once this ice is broken most people are appreciative that I took care to explain this.

I request you to not compare Jesus Christ with Nanak or Krishna because Christ was a yogi and Nanak was the divine himself. Christ's journey to become the divine was cut short and he failed to achieve the greatness he could achieve had he continued his journey. Whereas Guru Nanak completed his journey and attained moksha. The inability to understand the difference has prevented any other Christ from rising. In Sikhism, Guru Nanak was followed by nine gurus.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 16 Jul 2012 17:00

SBajwa wrote:I tell everybody in USA that comes across me asking me about my religion (sikh) . I tell them that even as I am a Sikh I do see Jesus Christ as an equal to Guru Nanak or Ramchandra or Krishna (a great hero). Which is truth as per my Dharma. "Devan Kao Aike Bhagwan" i.e. "Many Devtas (nobles Dharmic people) but one God" and once this ice is broken most people are appreciative that I took care to explain this.

I am sure you havent tried that in some southern states in Bible belt. They would have harmed you physically.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Jul 2012 17:22

I endorse what Shiv has said.LIke Reagan,trust but verify.All that we receive from Unle Sam when we complain about Paki terrorism aimed at India is tea and sympathy.Why? The secret relationship between Pak and the US must never be exposed.It runs extremely deep and as was hinted recently in an old cold war story,did the US have plans to install nuclear tipped missiles/nuclear bombers in Pak aimed at the USSR? Were they actually installed/based at one time? This is why the ISI/Paki military always win ther spats with the Yanquis,they "know where the bodies are buried".If the truth were to out about the details of the cosy relatoinship between the US and Pak,it would cause a storm.

The US is trying to have its kebabs and eat them,in the subcontinent.Sorry mate,you have to choose.You are either fornicating with rent-boy Pak,or trying to develop an honest friendship with India.The yanquis can't have both.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 16 Jul 2012 18:14

Altair wrote:
SBajwa wrote:I tell everybody in USA that comes across me asking me about my religion (sikh) . I tell them that even as I am a Sikh I do see Jesus Christ as an equal to Guru Nanak or Ramchandra or Krishna (a great hero). Which is truth as per my Dharma. "Devan Kao Aike Bhagwan" i.e. "Many Devtas (nobles Dharmic people) but one God" and once this ice is broken most people are appreciative that I took care to explain this.
I am sure you havent tried that in some southern states in Bible belt. They would have harmed you physically.

Why so? Are not the secular first world international people from Southern Bible belt states do belong to first world country USA, the paragon of virtue and power as well as the most civilized & secular amongst the most secular and civilized?

In fact, I expect that the mot civilized and secular international people extend the opportunity to appreciate by beliefs and traditions of == of Jesus, all of Gurus, Ramachandra, Krishna and so on and so forth.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 16 Jul 2012 18:31

The Southern Bible belt comprises of people who could put some of the RAPEs to shame. I do not want to trigger a religious discussion so this would be last post on this topic. We can continue in burqa.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 17 Jul 2012 05:54

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 009366.cms

DUBAI: An Indian fisherman was killed and three others were wounded on Monday when a US navy ship fired at their small boat off Dubai in the tense waters of the southern Gulf, officials said.

US defence officials said the motorboat had ignored warnings not to approach the refuelling ship USNS Rappahannock, and that sailors on board the American vessel feared it could pose a threat.

"Since 2000, we've been very concerned about small boats," a defence official in Washington said, referring to the year of a deadly suicide bomb attack against the destroyer USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden.

A United Arab Emirates official said one fisherman was killed and three other Indians were wounded.

"The services concerned are now investigating this incident," foreign ministry official Tareq Amed al-Hidan said, quoted by state news agency WAM.

A statement from the US Fifth Fleet, which is based in Bahrain and on alert for possible Iranian action in Gulf waters, said the crew had opened fire as a last resort.

"An embarked security team aboard a US navy vessel fired upon a small motor vessel after it disregarded warnings and rapidly approached the US ship near Jebel Ali," it said, referring to an Emirati port city.

"The USNS Rappahannock used a series of non-lethal, preplanned responses to warn the vessel before resorting to lethal force," it said.

"The US crew repeatedly attempted to warn the vessel's operators to turn away from their deliberate approach," it added.

"When those efforts failed to deter the approaching vessel, the security team on the Rappahannock fired rounds from a .50-calibre machine gun."

The US navy has been building up its forces in the oil-rich region amid mounting tensions with Iran over its controversial nuclear programme.

Tehran has warned it could close the Strait of Hormuz in the southern Gulf if international sanctions begin to bite, potentially disrupting shipping and world oil supplies through the strategic waterway.

Washington has deployed two aircraft carriers to the region -- the USS Abraham Lincoln and the USS Enterprise -- and doubled its minesweeper fleet in the area from four to eight ships on June 23.

And on Monday, the Pentagon confirmed that it had brought forward the deployment off a third strike group, led by the carrier USS John-Stennis, by four months in order to further bolster its presence.

The deployment aims to warn off Iran over its threats to mine the narrow strait through which about a fifth of the world's traded oil passes.

In October 2000, 17 US sailors were killed when militants in an explosives-laden skiff blew a 30-by-30-foot (10-by-10-metre) hole in the USS Cole in Aden. Al-Qaida claimed responsibility for the attack.

Is this comparable to the Italian Marines case? Indian waters vs foreign waters? Proportionate response? The media atleast seems to have come up with a bunch of reasons why the fishermen were shot at.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 17 Jul 2012 08:06

The Indian media is just repeating what the western media( APRe/ Reuters etc) are reporting. The US is good at media management. However, as witnessed both within US and outside, the US military and police are prone to shoot from the hip always, and aiming to kill. It is not a suprirse that these modern day cowboys shot to kill.

They could have shot the boat below water line with an aim to sink it, instead of trying to kill everyone inside. After all, they were using 50mm bullets. However, it is ingrained in them to shoot to kill if they percieve that they are in danger. The US police officers in US too are well known for using excessive force and killing unarmed civilians if they feel they are under attack (note the word feel).

I really doubt if they gave proper warning to the oncoming fishing vessel, or shot across their bow first to warn them. It is easier to kill, good target practise, and they know no one will stand up to them.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 17 Jul 2012 08:08

SBajwa wrote:

I tell everybody in USA that comes across me asking me about my religion (sikh) . I tell them that even as I am a Sikh I do see Jesus Christ as an equal to Guru Nanak or Ramchandra or Krishna (a great hero). Which is truth as per my Dharma. "Devan Kao Aike Bhagwan" i.e. "Many Devtas (nobles Dharmic people) but one God" and once this ice is broken most people are appreciative that I took care to explain this.

Bajwaji,
Sat Shri Akal.
Sirji, you are making a fundamental mistake. People like you are hated by the Christians. If Nanak is == Christ then how will conversion occur? How souls will be harvested? How heathens will see the true way? In their eyes, Christ is the true son of God, all others are demons. I am very serious on this. Only Hindus sing Ishwar Allah Tero naam, they do not and they will not. We make a grave error in judgement when we forget this difference. Try to read up the parliament of religions experiment that they had in Chicago, and why it was never repeated. This was the one where Swami Vivekananda spoke.
Gautam

Kannan · Post by **Kannan** » 17 Jul 2012 09:35

Altair wrote:
SBajwa wrote:I tell everybody in USA that comes across me asking me about my religion (sikh) . I tell them that even as I am a Sikh I do see Jesus Christ as an equal to Guru Nanak or Ramchandra or Krishna (a great hero). Which is truth as per my Dharma. "Devan Kao Aike Bhagwan" i.e. "Many Devtas (nobles Dharmic people) but one God" and once this ice is broken most people are appreciative that I took care to explain this.
I am sure you havent tried that in some southern states in Bible belt. They would have harmed you physically.

No, they wouldn't have. Maybe parts of West Virginia can be joked about as being backwoods, but ICKON or whatever is i Wheeling, and I've faced more hostility being a Christian in India than my time as a Hindu in the southern belt.

g.sarkar,
To say Christians can hate someone for a different belief is kind of paranoid. They may not reciprocate the feeling but I don't see a reason for hate. The basic theology is that Christ was the son of God sent as a sacrifice for your sins and an innate human inability to undo their own sin requires this sacrifice. Everything else is heavily debatable, and I benefit none for "harvesting" a soul.

I would wish you'd educate yourself before making malicious comments about that which you do not understand because for all the accusations and fears, white Americans are probably the most tolerant people I've ever met.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 17 Jul 2012 10:25

Kannan wrote: g.sarkar,
To say Christians can hate someone for a different belief is kind of paranoid. They may not reciprocate the feeling but I don't see a reason for hate. The basic theology is that Christ was the son of God sent as a sacrifice for your sins and an innate human inability to undo their own sin requires this sacrifice. Everything else is heavily debatable, and I benefit none for "harvesting" a soul.
I would wish you'd educate yourself before making malicious comments about that which you do not understand because for all the accusations and fears, white Americans are probably the most tolerant people I've ever met.

Where is the malicious comment? Did I say that you benefit from harvesting souls? I do not even know you. Regarding education, if one had infinite time, one learn infinite things. Surely, I have much to learn. But that will not change facts. The main stream Christian idea is that if you do not accept Christ as your personal savior you burn in hell forever. No one can go to the father except through him. I have been told here in the US that Krishna is a demon, and when you pray to him, you are opening your heart to a demon. Finally, I was told, for all his piety, where is Gandhi now? burning in hell for not accepting Christ. I have heard Billy Graham, and he has nothing good to say about those who did not accept Christ. And he is pretty much mainstream. I have not heard any Dharmic religions to say such things about any other religion.
Gautam

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 17 Jul 2012 11:58

India wants case against US Navy for shooting at fishermen near Dubai | NDTV

Why do western military folks get so worked up seeing Indian fishing boats? Why shoot the man or the boat?

Shouldn't there be multiple shots in front of the boat and ear-piercing announcements when the boat starts to approach the ship? What if the fisherman didn't even understand whatever the ships' announcements (I presume they were in English) meant.

This is most unfortunate. Alas, the Americans will do a sham investigation and Indian govt will not pursue it.

The loss of human life is just too high to pay for failing to recognize the warnings, which one might not even understand.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 17 Jul 2012 13:25

Kannan:

I really do not know where to start with your comments.

Fact of the matter is that in the US a non-Christian is highly unlikely to get into any position of significant political power. This is very unlike India where Christians have roles of significant political power. The two governors of Indian origin had to convert to Christanity to be acceptable and their faith is questioned all the time.

Just like you do not have to bribe your way through your daily life in the US, as a non-Christian you can go on with your life without much fear. Things are fine when you keep to yourself; try to seek a position power and you will be told where you belong.

And here is an example of how tolerant the conservative Christians are; as a pastor introduces a potential future POTUS. The standing ovations are proof in themselves.

You have the freedom to chose whatever faith you want to pursue, but do not spread lies about what you have disowned.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Jul 2012 13:29

Why not fire a few Bullets near the Boat, I am sure the Fishermen will back off.

Sorry, I see this as nothing but trigger happy murder

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 17 Jul 2012 13:37

U.S. regrets Indian fisherman's killing | The Hindu

An abhorrent act by US Navy personnel.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Jul 2012 16:24

Kannan wrote: To say Christians can hate someone for a different belief is kind of paranoid. They may not reciprocate the feeling but I don't see a reason for hate.

This is probably OT, but am surprised by the bolded part.

Idolatory is a sin in Christianity, as is worshiping false Gods. Evangelicals and literalist Christians therefore have a reason for regarding Hinduism, with its core precepts deemed sinful, with strong dislike. And Websters tells me 'strong dislike' is a synonym for hatred. Evangelicals constitute what, between 25-30% of American society ?

Homosexuals have been successful in arguing for parts of the Bible to be deemed legally as 'hate speech'. And the language used against 'idolators' is no different from that used against homosexuals.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Jul 2012 17:03

Roperia wrote:U.S. regrets Indian fisherman's killing | The Hindu

An abhorrent act by US Navy personnel.

$10 million USD for the dead, $2 million for the injured!

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 17 Jul 2012 17:05

Johann wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:one has to understand that the US is NEVER going to be as unselfish as the former Soviet Union; a la; delivering the ‘Karachi gun boats’ before we ever paid for them.
That made sense for the Soviets when the name of the game was expanding influence in order to at any cost in order to diplomatically isolate the West.

By the end of the Cold War a lot of Russians were bitter about the resources they lavished on countries around the world for very little return. It was economically unsustainable and when push came to shove, the Russians were alone.

There's a reason the way Russia does business now is so radically different from the Cold War - i.e. transactional. They're some of the toughest capitalists out there now.

The Chinese went through the same transformation ten years before the Russians. They used to shower their 'friends' with free weapons in Mao's time. Post Mao, they've charged.

Johann, this is off topic, but today I went through a lot of your older posts and posting history.

They were outstanding in that they educated me extensively about the inner workings of the Middle East and the Islamic world in general. Thanks a lot!

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 17 Jul 2012 17:21

Arjun wrote:
Kannan wrote: To say Christians can hate someone for a different belief is kind of paranoid. They may not reciprocate the feeling but I don't see a reason for hate.
This is probably OT, but am surprised by the bolded part.

Idolatory is a sin in Christianity, as is worshiping false Gods. Evangelicals and literalist Christians therefore have a reason for regarding Hinduism, with its core precepts deemed sinful, with strong dislike. And Websters tells me 'strong dislike' is a synonym for hatred. Evangelicals constitute what, between 25-30% of American society ?

Homosexuals have been successful in arguing for parts of the Bible to be deemed legally as 'hate speech'. And the language used against 'idolators' is no different from that used against homosexuals.

I guess the adherents of NO religion, do not think of other religions as the OTHER. They all do. Al relative of my grandmother voices vocally, her views of Muslims and Christians and what they do to Indians. And she extraordinarily well read, being a gold medalist from the Banaras Hindu University, achieving an M.A in 1945. So let alone the views of more mainstream, less well educated Hindus. Of course the RSS types are another right view species altogether.

All in all, I guess all of us are entitled to our fear mongering and hatred of the groups of people we consider "the other". Nothing wrong with such views. Discrimination makes it easy to deal with economic matters, transactions, etc.

In the U.S, the strong culture of individualism ensures that most people do not discriminate overtly, if at all. In India, which is not so individualistic; white people face positive biases and dark bhangis and Africans face high negative biases, much more so than in the U.S.

At the same time, the biases in the U.S tend to be OVERT, and the rah-rah nationalism and group-support far more likely to be vocal about certain things. Brings to mind the various jihadi tanzeems operating in pakistan, in the way they voice their opinions on unimportant matters such as abortion, creationism, etc.

Individualism is the culture of the people in the US, and a mixture of collectivism and individual thinking, the norm in India. When one speaks of religions, on the other hand, the Dharmic religions are far more individualistic / "family is THE group", than the Abrahamic religions, which are more "Momeen is THE group". No wonder Hindus discriminate, pontificate, fight and convert LESS than the Christians and the Muslims, globally.

The natural state of affairs of Hinduism, is liberalism. The Khajuraho temples, Kamasutra, et al. stick out as examples of the liberal culture that was popular in India before the advent of conservative Islam and restrictive Victorian era Christianity.

The majority of people in the U.S are Christian. India is majorly Hindu. Greater India, or the Indian subcontinent was far more pluralistic than the U.S. It had built up a strong culture of allowing tribes to coexist within the confines of the larger state, without too much interference from it. Which allows us to accept APJ Abdul Kalam, Sonia Gandhi et al .

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Jul 2012 17:35

If one wishes to discuss Christianism etc. one possible thread is "Cultural Protectionism"! You can do it there!

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 17 Jul 2012 20:57

Do investigate the Protestant mainstream US views on Catholics. There the vitriol is more acceptable.

You will learn the love and tolerance that flows unbridled from xtianity.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 17 Jul 2012 22:35

Indian fishermen say US boat fired without warning

...
The fishermen, hospitalized with gunshot wounds after the incident near Dubai's Jebel Ali port, said on Tuesday that they received no warning before the US craft opened fire, and that their craft had attempted to avoid any contact with it.

"We had no warning at all from the ship, we were speeding up to try and go around them and then suddenly we got fired at," 28-year-old Muthu Muniraj told Reuters from hospital, his legs punctured by the rounds of the U.S. craft's .50-caliber gun.

"We know warning signs and sounds and there were none; it was very sudden. My friend was killed, he's gone. I don't understand what happened."

A Fifth Fleet spokesman, Lt. Greg Raelson, asked whether the identification of the craft as a fishing boat made the threat cited by the Navy less likely, said an internal inquiry into the incident had not finished.

"Non-lethal measures were taken while attempting to signal the vessel," he said, adding that the fishing craft did not respond. "That was when the security team fired rounds from the .50-caliber ... Our ships have an inherent right to self-defense against lethal threats."

The United States has been particularly wary of attacks on its ships since two al Qaeda suicide bombers rammed an explosives-laden boat into the USS Cole in 2000, blowing a massive hole in its side and killing 17 US sailors.

In Monday's incident, other members of the boat's crew, which consisted of six Indians and two Emiratis, said their boat had come under fire as it returned from trawling in waters off Jebel Ali.

"We were fishing and then on the way back they started shooting at us, so many shots, like a storm," said 35-year-old Muthu Kannan, who had a gunshot wound to the abdomen and a lower leg wired into place with metal rods.

"This is not the first time for us to go out in the boat and we all know what a warning is," said 26-year-old Pandu Sanadhan. "All I can remember is a lot of shooting."
...
...
Some Indian media appeared to blame the United States for the incident; one television channel ran headlines reading "Murder on the High Seas" and "No Regret, No Apology from America". In a statement, the U.S. embassy in New Delhi expressed its condolences to the families of the boat's crew.
...
...

Note that the sh!theads from ToI has just reproduced the reuters article verbatim. And also observe the justification in the article about the USN being wary after attack on USS Cole. Every article on the incident from these MNC media has the obligatory reference to USS cole and Iran. As though it was an unfortunate accident.

As I mentioned before, the US Navy didn't have to fire so many shots, they could have just fired a couple of rounds in front of the boat/across the bow. But these cowboys always aim to kill. Their motto is "Kill, and verify later".

habal · Post by **habal** » 17 Jul 2012 23:08

An embarassing episode with 2 mutu Indians just concluded on times now with Chidanand Rajghtta and Maroof Raza playing the mutus and Ajit Doval the only one even speaking remotely on behalf of the sailors. It's highly painful to watch the otherwise a robust & jingo Maroof batting solely for US Navy's interests. India is a totally divided house when it comes to taking on the US. Sometimes I get the feeling that the spirit and honor of some Indians is so broken that they can shamelessly tout interests of another country on national media without batting an eyelid. There is no shame and they are least embarassed by the stand they take, in fact they take great pride to promote US pov though there was the token presence of an American diplomat in the show to do the same. He didn't have to speak much at all. Wow.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jul 2012 23:33

Amen to the BRF poster who coined the word mutu!!!

Off course he is banned!

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 18 Jul 2012 00:21

What happens to Krishna Doctrine?

What happens to Krishna Doctrine?
The government finds itself on an awkward spot in the incident involving the killing of an Indian fisherman and causing injury to 3 other Indian fishermen by the United States Navy. It sheepishly asked the UAE government to look into the matter — although the US had already admitted the incident.

This becomes a test case of the External Affairs Ministry’s steely resolve in the recent months to go to any extent to safeguard the welfare and security of Indian nationals — popularly known as the ‘Krishna Doctrine’.
Already the government is adopting double standards. In a similar incident involving Italian Navy personnel in February, MEA brusquely turned down Rome’s plea for a joint investigation and insisted on prosecuting the culprits (who were detained and are still in Kochi on bail). The Italian foreign minister came to Delhi pleading, Rome sought Vatican’s intervention, but MEA said ‘Nyet‘.
Finally, according to the latest reports, the Italian government has been compelled to appeal to the Supreme Court. Yet, India has merely asked UAE to conduct an investigation rather than demand that the US should hand over the personnel involved in the criminal act.
The incident seems to have taken place in the UAE territorial waters. MEA should have at least taken pre-emptive action and demanded that the UAE authorities detained the US vessel. (This is what we did to the Italian vessel, although it was in the international waters.)

We can’t have one Krishna Doctrine for Italy (and Denmark) and another for the US. The US statement on the subject is perfunctory. The writing is there on the wall. Most certainly, the US vessel will sail away and that will be the last we heard of this matter.
The US will never allow its military personnel to be tried in India. If there is any doubt, ask Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
So, what do we do now? The decent thing will be to let the Italian navy personnel go home, too.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 18 Jul 2012 01:10

^^^ nothing doing. blood money compensation will be paid to the relatives. wait and watch. i will personally protest outside the US embassy if this doesn't happen.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 18 Jul 2012 01:29

One of the surviving Indian fisherman says they received no warning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18874755

Indian fishermen injured when their boat was shot at by a US Navy ship off the coast of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) say they received no warnings before they came under fire.

The US Navy says:

http://www.cusnc.navy.mil/articles/2012/102.html

USNS Rappahannock Fires After Vessel Ignores Warnings
By U.S. Naval Forces Central Command Public Affairs

U.S. FIFTH FLEET AREA OF OPERATIONS – An embarked security team aboard a U.S. Navy vessel fired upon a small motor vessel after it disregarded warnings and rapidly approached the U.S. ship near Jebel Ali, United Arab Emirates today.

In accordance with Navy force protection procedures, the sailors on the USNS Rappahannock (T-AO 204) used a series of non-lethal, preplanned responses to warn the vessel before resorting to lethal force.

The U.S. crew repeatedly attempted to warn the vessel’s operators to turn away from their deliberate approach. When those efforts failed to deter the approaching vessel, the security team on the Rappahannock fired rounds from a .50-caliber machine gun.

The incident is under investigation.

The US Navy statement does not describe what form its warnings took. Does anyone (with a Navy background?) know what form such a warning typically takes?

Does anyone know what is the status of US Navy personnel operating in UAE jurisdiction (where both vessels were located)? Can they be tried under UAE law, or is there a UAE-USA agreement that stops this from happening?

Can the injured men / families of the dead men lodge a criminal case against the US Navy personnel in one or more of (i) UAE, (ii) USA, (iii) India, (iv) ICJ?

A man is dead, the law should be taking its course.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 18 Jul 2012 02:01

If India is not able to take action against US naval officers who killed Indian fisherman, will that set precedence for the release of Italians arrested in Kerala?

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 18 Jul 2012 02:37

paramu wrote:If India is not able to take action against US naval officers who killed Indian fisherman, will that set precedence for the release of Italians arrested in Kerala?

In the case of the Kerala fishermen killed by the Italian marines, India is claiming and enforcing jurisdiction (the Italian marines are in our custody). The UAE case has no bearing on it.

I am trying to understand who has jurisdiction in the case of the Indian fisherman killed by the US Navy in UAE waters. There must be a court in the world that is prepared to hear this case.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 18 Jul 2012 02:37

The influential police chief of Dubai confirms that firing was clearly a mistake and the boat was NOT in international waters as has been suggested by propagandist US media.

The police chief asserts that boat was in its right course and did not pose any danger to the US Navy Ship. Local authorities maintain that murder of Indian fishermen by US Navy personnel happened 16 km off the port well within its waters contradicting NYT's propaganda yet AGAIN which claimed that it happened 48 kms off the port.

The history of US clearly suggests that it will not punish its personnel at fault. This case should be taken to the International Court of Justice. Except in Islamic Republic of Pakistan, where in the world can someone kill someone else and get away by apologizing or by paying blood money?

U.S. firing was a mistake, says UAE official | The Hindu

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Jul 2012 04:17

Come on Guys,as they say,"get a life!"

The US military is trained to shoot first and ask Qs later.In Iraq,Af-Pak,and elsewhere,they have slaughtered lakhs of innocents.Just keep the destruction of Fallujah in mind for one war crime.Any life that is not American is worthless to the Yanqui military.
After the Al Q suicidal attack on the USS Cole some years ago,they are not going to take any risk whatsoever.So incidents like this will happen again and again.We are concerned this time because our nationals are involved as victims.A sad fact of life of the times we live in.

The days of the "Wild West" may be over in the US,but it has done magnificently in preserving the tradition by exporting it globally!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Jul 2012 04:21

Yes,Clinton wants more def. sales while her boss insults India! Perfect way to treat a lackey "ally" like Singh & Co. what !

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 18 Jul 2012 06:02

This is yet another case in the long line of superpower hubris. US armed forces' rules of engagement in many cases devolves into "shoot first and sort it out later". If you look at Iraq examples, there were scores of incidents where some random cars anywhere near checkposts have been blasted without repercussions. I'm not sure what we can tell our fishermen other than to ask them to not earn a living.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 18 Jul 2012 07:15

'HSBC exposed US, India to terror funding risk' | TOI

US Senate slams HSBC | The Hindu

While RBI and GoI sleep a U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affair finds that the HSBC bank failed to check money laundering by terrorists in US and India.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 18 Jul 2012 07:26

The US is not signatory for world court and it protects it's armed forces from any criminal or civil prosecution outside of US period.

Recall the wailing of Karzai so many times and the agony of Iraqi government..
Also recall that USAF pilots cut a cable car while indulging in a bet of macho maneuver in Italy there was outrage but nothing could be done about it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/276359.stm

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jul 2012 08:37

two contrasting incidents

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true
Murder in mid-sea

vs

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 652355.ece
Russia seizes two Chinese fishing ships

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2012 08:38

Rony wrote:What happens to Krishna Doctrine?

Ohh. . .that is by Shri MKB. His agenda is to let the Italians escape.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2012 09:06

Unprovoked, they rained bullets for five minutes

“A man fired from a machine gun continuously for five minutes. It happened suddenly and everything was over even before we could understand what was happening,” said an Indian fisherman who survived the shooting by the United States Navy off the Dubai coast.

The boat was sailing at reasonably good speed. It was attempting to go around the U.S. ship when it was fired upon.

Kumaresan, 32, of Thondi, another eyewitness, said the cabin crew, who were Arabs, did not slow down despite calls from him and fellow fishermen. They were not sure what prompted the U.S. naval personnel to open fire.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2012 09:19

Anger & Sorrow at victim's village

Sekar had gone to Dubai 10 months ago, spending Rs 1 lakh borrowed at an exorbitant interest in the process. The debt was yet to be settled, his family said.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 18 Jul 2012 10:49

May be India should file a murder case, issue warrants and later mark as "accused absconding". Bring it up everytime when uncle wants some favor from India.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 18 Jul 2012 13:11

One report says the first warning was issued when the 50 foot boat was 1200 yards away from USNS Rappahannock. It says the boat rapidly closed to 70 yards of the starboard side in about a minute before the crew opened fire with the 50 cal. That is indeed a high speed for a small skiff, hain? Maybe the fishing crew was trying to meet a deadline..... and the resupply ship did not look like your normal warship bristling with gun turrets. The vessel's paint scheme which screams "military" should have been noted (even from afar) though... sea dogs regularly fishing those waters also know there are a large number of navy ships in that area. Heck, Jebel Ali is THE "Sandbox" right?
Also experienced sailors would not try to cut ahead of a 42,000T vessel with a 50 foot-15 tonne (approx) skiff ..... what if you get caught in the wake? The M2 Browning can engage targets 1800M away; if the engagement occurred at 70M in broad daylight , less than a minute after the alarm was sounded and considering this was the "heathen Tow3l Head" land I am surprised the skiff did not get atomized.

Isn't there a funda about how perimeter security personnel, like in a hotel, generally behaves (that is, unless there is a high alert) depending on the type of the vehicle you are riding in? I have been told that the security can't spot (or are supposed to) special weapons like a briefcase nuke or bioweapon (which should have been stopped by the intelligence services/armed forces in the first place) but they are more concerned with large volumes of explosives/reactants which can cause heavy damage. So a Tata Nano can carry maybe 300 Kg of explosives is shooed inside with barely a glance but a van which can carry up to 2 tonnes gets a closer dekko. Now the rubber dinghy which killed 17 and crippled the Cole dwarfs in comparison to a 50 foot skiff (which can carry a 10-tonne backyard bomb).
So in the light of all this should we cut them Rambos a little slack? This was not exactly like the Italian marines case where in the dead of the night some yahoos in a crows nest shot up a tiny boat which was coasting away, no?.

JMTC.

PS: On this note I've heard of our army convoys in J&K "actively encouraging" other vehicles to keep distance. they do not fire at them of course, but uses an NCO/jawan with a long pole or a megaphone. It sounded a bit outlandish.... and the source was from the DDM so I didnt believe it. Anyone know if it's true?