West Asia News and Discussions

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KLNMurthy
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by KLNMurthy »

Johann wrote:
Virupaksha wrote:The answer to your questions is the soudis and (anti Iranism), another tyrant family.
So in that case, why did most Arabs also cheer when Mubarak and Ben Ali fell?
I dont differentiate between an Asad, Hamid of Bahrain or Abdullah of Soudi or the mullahs of Iran and expect us support one over other for the sake of the fake human rights western orgs and intelligence orgs.
The point is not whether some Indians or many Indians cheer for this or that dictator.

The point is to correctly assess on whose side Arab public opinion is, and why its there.

Philip made some pretty unsupportable claims that only pro-Western people support the FSA.
Facts should certainly be accounted for; however I am not certain that statements of the category of "most Arabs cheer when [Mubarak et al] fell" are always as indisputable and factual as it might seem at first blush. Now this may well be actually true as it pertains to Mubarak specifically (and I would bet it is) but my point is that there is a certain amount of history and experience that informs how we view events as they appear in the media and interpret them as accurately representing facts. Let me offer a few nuggets of my personal experience of media narratives; these are more or less "facts" in that I can vouch for them myself:
  • During Gufl War 1, a major public outcry was created against Iraq when a young Kuwaiti girl tearfully narrated a tale of how Iraqi soldiers removed Kuwaiti preemie babies from incubators and caused their deaths. This was later admitted to be completely concocted, however at the time this narration was accepted unquestioningly.

    During Gulf War II, NYTimes famously propagated the story of Iraqi WMDs, building consent for the invasion.

    Mainstream media, including "intellectual outlets" like PBS or NPR, routinely tell the tales of the rebellions against largely secular Arab dictators through a Luke Skywalker vs. the Empire lens. There is no balance at all, no suggestion that things may not be so morally clear-cut. For instance, on womens' rights or minority rights, an issue dear to the hearts of so many liberals, Gadafi, Saddam, Najibullah et al did rather well compared to what came after them. In my youth when the Shah of Iran was deposed, I cheered for the "people's revolution" only to have Irani-Zoroastrian and Bahai friends enlighten me that their lives are now going to be far more miserable with the Shah gone.

    Crowds cheering at the fall of a dictator: remember the famous video of crowds cheering when Saddam's statue was toppled? Staged.

    Another thing about crowds cheering: many of us Indians have been part of zindabad-murdabad-ing crowds at one time or the other. That is just as often a genuine expression of shared sentiment as it is a matter of "going with the flow because you either don't have your view or dare not voice it."

    Number of times I have heard the breathless US media, their blood up in the chase of human rights in Iraq, Syria and so forth, delve into the inconvenient contradiction of US alliance with Saudi Arabia and very productive business relationship with China--both tied for the gold medal in the human rights violation olympics--is exactly zero.

    Oh, and Paki crowds and many "intellectuals" cheer fervently for Im the Dim.

    We in India cheered when Indira Gandhi lost in 1977. Then cheered again when her vanquishers lost in 1980. I am sure you know your Khalil Gibran, so I don't need to tell you what all this cheering is worth.
These and similar facts of experience and history, coupled with the fact that our interests and agendas as Indian jingoes don't necessarily align with those of run-of-the-mill western liberals, means that we will apply a heavy dose of interpretation to what are presented to us as "facts" but are actually--to coin the least judgmental of terms, rashomonacts, or elephantacts, just segmented points of view. It means that cui bono is a question never far from our minds. (As Ronald Reagan once said, facts are stupid things.)

There is risk in this--each of us has to strike a balance between blind ingestion of ignorant or downright dishonest mainstream information, and falling down the proverbial rabbit hole where we start doubting the moon landing. From what I have seen, BRF seems to manage the balance well enough.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 24 Jul 2012 11:30, edited 4 times in total.
Virupaksha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Virupaksha »

Johann wrote:
The question is why was FSA "chosen" to lead, remember the case of Pakistan and US during 1980s in afghanistan. The question was not whether Dostum, Massoud, Rabbani were fighting PDPA. The question is why was Hekmatyar "chosen" to lead, who strictly speaking fought the least against PDPA.
The FSA is not a single monolithic, coherent body.

Its a bunch of many local outfits in many areas, only united by a common cause. Anyone who organises an anti-Assad militia can and does call themselves 'FSA'.

I am not concerned about the FSA as a whole, especially the defectees from the regular army who make up the bulk of the most effective units - rather I am concerned that as in Libya the Gulf states -especially Qatar- are supporting the least professional, most Islamist outfits. So yes, I'm with you on the Hekmatyar comparison.

However, what heartens me is that the Syrians are much, much better educated than the Afghans. In the end its the Syrians who will chose who they are willing to have rule them. They will not put up with out of control beards, or with 'opposition leadership' parachuted in from abroad.
Johann,

Please do not ask me to believe that Qatar is the prime mover behind this. See its geographical position and its interests and how libya and Syria are interconnected. They are the "non-state insurgents" of the west, just as Pakistan was during 1980s.

In the intial match up the independent factions will fight while the comprimised will be held in reserve, so that the reserve will win in the eventual fight. This has been happening like a broken record. Massouds will be sidelined, while Mullah Omar & Heymatkar will be described as the best after curd rice and any opposition to this coterie will be described as support to Najibullah. Happened in egypt, how the "secular" arab revolt is being led by MB or how the parachuters are running Libya today.
Last edited by Virupaksha on 24 Jul 2012 11:09, edited 1 time in total.
KLNMurthy
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by KLNMurthy »

Johann wrote: ...

However, what heartens me is that the Syrians are much, much better educated than the Afghans. In the end its the Syrians who will chose who they are willing to have rule them. They will not put up with out of control beards, or with 'opposition leadership' parachuted in from abroad.
[No need to needlessly slam our beloved land of the "Kabuliwallah" to make your point. :-) The only intelligent ruler of North India during the Mughal period was an Afghan.]

For all I know, the Syrians may be uniformly wonderful modernist fellows as you say who won't let any regressive minority tyrant push them around for any length of time (like, say the Alawite Assads), but if I were a betting man, I would bet they and whatever good intentions they may--or may not--represent will be royally screwed once the FSA is handed the reins; upshot will be that they will fall in line and do the Islamist salaam. They will go the way of their historical counterparts Kerensky, Bani-sadr, Chamorro and so forth. They would have to, particularly since as you say, the US / West isn't all that powerful to control the flow of events, thus protecting the human rights in that part of the world from the loving Islamist overlords to come.

So, this is what concerns BRFites--we only see a shift of power from secular to Islamist, somehow silly us are not able to cheer this change as a great advance for the good guys.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 24 Jul 2012 11:17, edited 1 time in total.
Johann
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

Virupaksha wrote:FSA was created, is running right now only on the western support. Take that off, what will the effect of FSA? FSA will collapse within days and so what does it tell us.
There seems to be some sort of assumption here that the FSA is somehow flush with weapons and funds.

The various FSA battalions for the most part not at all well equipped. They are completely outmatched materially by Syrian forces.

The Syrian government has total air superiority, armour and artillery, and a willingness to use these weapon systems. FSA units can only manage a rearguard action in any direct assault by regular army brigades and divisions.

The fact is that the FSA is a hydra rather than a pyramid. That means then that it has kept the initiative; the FSA advances where the state is weak, retreats where it is strong. Meanwhile the military is haemorrhaging personnel through defections, resignations, detainees, etc.

Its not a question of Western support sustaining the FSA. The FSA has benefited most of all from the poor morale within the Syrian military. There is a limited number of troops the Syrian government it can trust and/or control in battle in any one time.
KLNMurthy
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by KLNMurthy »

Johann wrote:
...


Its not a question of Western support sustaining the FSA. The FSA has benefited most of all from the poor morale within the Syrian military. There is a limited number of troops the Syrian government it can trust and/or control in battle in any one time.
See Johann, this being BRF, you might want to do the thought-experiment of filtering the FSA / Syria / West triangular relationship through the rhetorical prism of "moral and political and diplomatic support onlee for the underfunded, disorganized but plucky Luke fighting the righteous fight against the Empire", that we know and love. Obviously India and Syria and not equal-equal by any stretch of the imagination, other than perhaps both being secular, but still it might help understand why we pooh-pooh rhetoric emanating from western media and official circles; all that sounds quite paki to us.
Virupaksha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Virupaksha »

Johann,

I did not say FSA is flush with funds.

One doesnt sponsor another organisation in that fashion if he wants to control it. The sponsor has to make sure that the org comes back every day for more or that org can start to have dreams of being independent. It also provides the more important benefit, that this is the phase where the more committed and the independent only will fight, thus having a much much higher chance of elimination while the compromised stay back.

The strategy of keeping some one in liquid oxygen "The oxygen will not let him die while the liquid will not allow to live" -From a famous movie dialogue. Regarding the hydra, you will start noticing that only certain heads will grow stronger while other heads will grow weaker during this phase. This is the attritional fight between committed and tyrant while the opportunists wait on the sidelines.
Johann
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

Virupaksha wrote:Please do not ask me to believe that Qatar is the prime mover behind this. See its geographical position and its interests and how libya and Syria are interconnected. They are the "non-state insurgents" of the west, just as Pakistan was during 1980s.
Pakistan was hardly a 'non-state actor' in Afghanistan in the 1980s. It was not involved as a favour to anyone else, which is why its happy to do the same thing today against the Americans.

Qatar's Emir is involved in regional politics across the board, out of competition with Saudi Arabia. Have you wondered why Hamas decided to move its HQ from Damascus to Doha? Why has the Taliban decided to set up its international office there as well?

He has many advantages. Mind-bogglingly large cash and energy reserves, and it has an enormous source of influence through Al-Jazeera, which is Qatari owned and based.

Both Qatar and Turkey were close allies of Syria for a decade before 2011, standing with Damascus when the Bush Administration was seriously considering an invasion of Syria from Iraq in the 2003-05 period.

Both countries chose to cast their lots on the side of the Arab Spring in the Sunni Arab world before it even showed any sign of reaching Syria.
Johann
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

KLNMurthy wrote:
See Johann, this being BRF, you might want to do the thought-experiment of filtering the FSA / Syria / West triangular relationship through the rhetorical prism of "moral and political and diplomatic support onlee for the underfunded, disorganized but plucky Luke fighting the righteous fight against the Empire", that we know and love. Obviously India and Syria and not equal-equal by any stretch of the imagination, other than perhaps both being secular, but still it might help understand why we pooh-pooh rhetoric emanating from western media and official circles; all that sounds quite paki to us.
KLNM, comparing India and Syria is an *enormous* dis-service to the Indian armed forces and the GOI, and to Indian democracy.

The GoI does not torture people for daring to protest in favour of political reform. That is the Pakistan Army at work.

The Syrian government both in 1982 and currently has shown no compunctions in shelling populated areas filled with civilians in order to kill rebels present somewhere in it, or in other forms of collective reprisals.

That is how for example the Pakistan Army has pursued counter-insurgency in FATA and Swat.

The GoI and armed forces on the other hand agonised both before and after using heavy weapons in one isolated instance during the Golden Temple siege.

The GoI does not have to confine half its army to barracks for fear that they will defect to the rebels - thats more like the Pakistani Army with the East Pakistan rifles in 1971.



There is no comparison
Johann
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

KLNMurthy wrote:
For all I know, the Syrians may be uniformly wonderful modernist fellows as you say who won't let any regressive minority tyrant push them around for any length of time (like, say the Alawite Assads), but if I were a betting man, I would bet they and whatever good intentions they may--or may not--represent will be royally screwed once the FSA is handed the reins; upshot will be that they will fall in line and do the Islamist salaam. They will go the way of their historical counterparts Kerensky, Bani-sadr, Chamorro and so forth. They would have to, particularly since as you say, the US / West isn't all that powerful to control the flow of events, thus protecting the human rights in that part of the world from the loving Islamist overlords to come.

So, this is what concerns BRFites--we only see a shift of power from secular to Islamist, somehow silly us are not able to cheer this change as a great advance for the good guys.
KLNM,

Being apprehensive about what will come next in the Arab world is perfectly natural and warranted. I don't expect anyone here to be euphoric about it.

My issue is the easy dismissal by some of the extent to which there is genuine wide and deep grassroots public support in the Arab world for the changes since 2011. I'm not asking anyone to take my personal word for it, or to listen to CNN or the BBC. Go out there and talk to Arabs, or if it is at all possible, visit the region. Its very real.

I would agree that what is happening is comparable to Iran in 1979 because its bottom up rather than top down in nature. Will the most reactionary elements seize dictatorial control like Khomeini did? We will have to wait and see.

Iran overwhelmingly voted in Khomeini's half-democratic, half theocratic constitution in October 1979, some 8 months after his return.

So far the public in countries like Tunisia, Egypt and Libya have voted Islamists in, but have been reluctant to just hand over their lives and futures to the Islamists in the same way. Few people seem to want to emulate Iran or Afghanistan or Pakistan - its clear enough to most Arabs that things have not worked out well for those three. Turkey under the AKP is the model most often spoken of.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Lol. This article confirms what I've been saying for the last few months. The GCC is the one supplying intel to the US!!

17th May
After a meeting with source:
- GCC now provide the intel to the US on Syria!!
In Syria, U.S. intelligence gaps
http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/rss.js ... d=-1&spf=1

Members of the Free Syrian Army are seen Sunday near Daraa. (SHAAM NEWS/via REUTERS)
Greg Miller and Joby Warrick
Monday, Jul 23, 2012
Sixteen months into the uprising in Syria, the United States is struggling to develop a clear understanding of opposition forces inside the country, according to U.S. officials who said that intelligence gaps have impeded efforts to support the ouster of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

U.S. spy agencies have expanded their efforts to gather intelligence on rebel forces and Assad’s regime in recent months, but they are still largely confined to monitoring intercepted communications and observing the conflict from a distance, officials said.

Interviews with U.S. and foreign intelligence officials revealed that the CIA has been unable to establish a presence in Syria, in contrast with the agency’s prominent role gathering intelligence from inside Egypt and Libya during revolts in those countries.

With no CIA operatives on the ground in Syria and only a handful stationed at key border posts, the agency has been heavily dependent on its counterparts in Jordan and Turkey and on other regional allies.

The lack of intelligence has complicated the Obama administration’s ability to navigate a crisis that presents an opportunity to remove a longtime U.S. adversary but carries the risk of bolstering insurgents sympathetic to al-Qaeda or militant Islam.

The administration is exploring ways to expand non-lethal support, officials said.

“But we’ve got to figure out who is over there first, and we don’t really know that,” said a U.S. official who expressed concern over persistent gaps and who, like others interviewed, spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was discussing intelligence matters. “It’s not like this is a new war. It’s been going on for 16 months.”

The lack of clarity has also fueled anxiety among U.S. allies in the region over who will control Syria if Assad falls. Even among Arab intelligence services eager to help rebels overthrow Assad, “the vetting process is still in the early stages,” said a Middle Eastern intelligence official, insisting on anonymity to discuss his country’s involvement in the Syrian crisis.

The foreign official cited concern that the opposition is at risk of becoming dominated by Islamists pushing for a Muslim Brotherhood government after Assad.

“We think this is a majority view, at least among those who are fighting in the streets,” the official said.


The CIA’s ability to operate inside Syria was hampered severely by the decision to close the U.S. Embassy in Damascus in February, officials said. Unlike in Libya, where rebels quickly seized control of the eastern half of the country, Syrian opposition groups have been unable to control territory that could serve as a foothold for CIA teams.

Despite the limitations, President Obama has given the agency authority to provide aid to anti-Assad forces through a collection of operations that require the president’s signature on a covert action “finding.”

The agency has supplied encryption-enabled communications gear to opposition groups, presumably enabling the United States to monitor their talks. A small team of six or so CIA officers based along the Turkey-Syria border has worked to vet opposition leaders and coordinate the flow of equipment and medical supplies, according to U.S. officials.

The agency has not been involved in supplying weapons, officials said, though the CIA has shared intelligence with countries, including Saudi Arabia and Qatar, that are providing arms to the rebels.

Other countries, including Jordan and the United Arab Emirates, have been willing to send money but not munitions, out of concern that the same firepower could eventually be turned against moderate Arab governments or Israel and possibly used against Syrian ethnic and religious minorities, U.S. and Middle Eastern officials said. (thats what I have been saying for a long time!!)

The concerns help explain why opposition groups remain outgunned despite backing from the United States and some of the region’s most powerful regimes.

Despite criticism from Republicans, the administration is reluctant to be drawn more deeply into another Middle East conflict. But in explaining their restraint, administration officials also cited the ongoing confusion about the composition of anti-Assad groups.

“The United States has a rather checkered history with arming opposition groups — we’re currently fighting one,” an administration official said, alluding to the decision in the 1980s to arm militias in Afghanistan that later morphed into al-Qaeda. “You really have to think hard about the second- or third-order effects of making that decision,” the official said, adding that in Syria “there could be a number of extremist elements.”

“The agency and others are trying to learn more about them,” the official said. “It’s still the case that without actual access to Syria, it’s hard to know exactly who they are.”

Seeking other ways to undermine Assad, the CIA and other spy agencies have expanded efforts to disrupt the flow of arms to the regime from Iran. Officials also cited the bombing in Damascus last week that killed four members of Assad’s inner circle as evidence that the opposition is increasingly capable even without lethal aid from the United States.

U.S. officials said intelligence on some aspects of the conflict in Syria has improved. Developments such as advances of rebel forces and defections within the nation’s military are being tracked remotely through satellite imagery and intercepted e-mails and calls.

U.S. intelligence analysts think that the bombing in Damascus was carried out by an insider with access to top Syrian national security officials. In contrast with the string of bombings earlier in the year, the latest attack has not been linked to al-Qaeda.

Although intelligence on the opposition is incomplete, “we know a lot more than we did,” said a senior administration official who helps oversee Syria policy. “We’re identifying the key leaders, and there are a lot of them. We are in touch with them, and we stay in touch.”


Others cast doubt on that assertion.

“The folks that have been identified have been identified through Turkey and Jordan,” another U.S. official said. “It's not because of who we know. It’s all through liaison.”

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and other senior U.S. officials have met with some opposition leaders. But officials described the Free Syrian Army and other groups as a disorganized front, unlike the unified Transitional National Council in Libya.

In that country, the CIA had inserted teams within weeks of the outbreak of violence to contact opposition groups and, later, help secure chemical weapons sites. Syria, with backing from Iran, is considered a more formidable espionage adversary, and it is suspected of possessing more chemical weapons stockpiles than Libya had.

Congressional officials said they have pressed the CIA for details on its plan to protect chemical weapons sites in Syria but have been rebuffed.

“We keep asking questions,” said a congressional aide who was not authorized to publicly discuss sensitive intelligence matters. “We get nothing.”

The fear that allies of al-Qaeda might acquire such weapons in the chaos of a Damascus collapse is a major concern for U.S. counterterrorism officials. Al-Qaeda’s presence has expanded in Syria over the past six months, officials said. But it still represents a small fraction of the opposition to Assad, and there are indications that its fighters are no longer blending into the insurgency as seamlessly as they did at the start of the war.

The rebels have tried to keep their distance from al-Qaeda, leaving the group “disconnected from the rest of the opposition,” said a U.S. official familiar with recent CIA assessments.



Added later:
U.S. contemplating 'an Assad aftermath'
Senior level Obama administration officials are now holding regular high-level meetings to discuss the ongoing situation in Syria and begin thinking about U.S. priorities in a post-Assad era, a senior U.S. official told CNN Monday.

"We are in the early stages of contemplating an Assad aftermath," the official said. While Syria has been a top priority for months, the official said specific concerns about the security situation in Syria have grown in recent days.

"The meetings are being convened to discuss the current situation and ensure that we are doing all we can as the crisis has worsened," the official said. "The intensity of the discussions has grown. The level of concern has increased considerably."


The administration also has stepped up its external discussions with Israel, Jordan and Turkey as the threats of spreading violence and refugees streaming across their borders has grown. There are also specific discussions with all those countries about Syria's chemical weapons stockpiles.

Syria's foreign ministry said Monday that the country has chemical weapons that it would be willing to use against foreign attackers. The admission led to strong warnings from U.S. officials, including President Barack Obama, who warned it would be a "tragic mistake."

"They should not think for one iota" about using the chemical weapons, Pentagon spokesman George Little said Monday.

And State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said: "Any talk about any use of any kind of a weapon like that in this situation is horrific and chilling. The Syrian regime has a responsibility to the world, has a responsibility first and foremost to its own citizens to protect and safeguard those weapons. That kind of loose talk just speaks to the kind of regime that we're talking about."

The senior U.S. official said U.S. and allied concerns took a leap forward when extensive fighting reached Damascus last week.

"It suggested the regime might be on its last legs," the official said.

While no one can predict when, and indeed if, Assad might leave office, the uptick in fighting, the resulting violence and the increased concern about the fate of Syria's chemical weapons all have led to the increased U.S. concern and need to plan for a post- Assad era, he said.

That in turn has led to discussions about a post-Assad political framework in Syria. The official emphasized the United States is not trying to impose a new political leadership, but rather to understand which opposition leaders are out there, and their relative strengths.

To that end, the U.S. intelligence community has also sent personnel to neighboring countries to talk to opposition groups to try to determine who the United States might be able to work with, the official said.

Although the United States sees the opposition forces gaining strength, they still haven't shown they can hold ground.

Another U.S. official said, "The insurgency is clearly picking up steam and operating across larger swaths of territory. Some of the myriad groups that make up the armed opposition are talking to each other more and it looks tactical coordination is improving. The real test now is whether insurgent fighters can beat back their adversaries and hold onto key areas in the face of a counteroffensive."
Austin
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Syria government ‘in control of chemical weapons’ – Israel

The Syrian government is “in full control” of its chemical weapons stockpiles, a senior Israeli defense official said on Tuesday. “The worry, of course, is that the regime will destabilize and the control will also destabilize,” Amos Gilad, told Israel Radio. “At the moment, the entire non-conventional weapons system is under the full control of the regime,” Reuters quoted him as saying. On Monday, Syria said it could use its chemical and biological weapons only in case of foreign intervention.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Evacuation announced of all Indian nationals and family members of diplomats. Diplomats and officials will continue their work.

----------
Syrian Air Force planes bombard Eastern Aleppo - first sign of escalation.
Suppiah
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Suppiah »

This Kuwaiti columnist is for increased Indian involvement in Arab areas, particularly to encourage democracy and counsel restraint on Iran..

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/ ... 181&BV_ID=@@@

Wonder if we really have this sort of clout...perhaps in future....but I like his approach to the problems at hand..
KLNMurthy
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by KLNMurthy »

Suppiah wrote:This Kuwaiti columnist is for increased Indian involvement in Arab areas, particularly to encourage democracy and counsel restraint on Iran..

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/ ... 181&BV_ID=@@@

Wonder if we really have this sort of clout...perhaps in future....but I like his approach to the problems at hand..
Looks like strategy is to recruit India as a backup to Turkey in providing a soft landing to Iran when and if it is tamed. Funny that he threatens to plump for China after all that blah blah about Arabs wanting to learn from Indian democracy.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Dressing down - how the UK/US /Qatari/Emirati/Jordanian special forces coordinated to help the NTC win.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQlM-kHUG7U

Similar numbers and figures to what I am hearing on Syria.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Syrian ambassador to Cyprus defects - arrives in Qatar.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

RT @NATOSource: Diplomat: reports Assad preparing to use Sarin gas against rebels, but "Russians got hold of him and told him ‘don't even think about it'
Lilo
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lilo »

In one hotel ballroom after another, Kaspersky insists that malware like Stuxnet and Flame should be banned by international treaty, like sarin gas or weaponized anthrax. He argues that the Internet should be partitioned and certain regions of it made accessible only to users who present an “Internet passport.” That way, anonymous hackers wouldn’t be able to get at sensitive sites—like, say, nuclear plants. Sure, it might seem like we’d be sacrificing some privacy online. But with all the advertisers, search engines, and governments tracking us today, Kaspersky argues, we don’t really have any privacy left anyway. “You can have privacy if you live somewhere in the jungle or the middle of Siberia,” he recently told a confab in the Bahamas.
Kaspersky and the Moscow government have espoused strikingly similar views on cybersecurity. This goes beyond the security industry’s basic mission of keeping data safe. When Kaspersky or Kremlin officials talk about responses to online threats, they’re not just talking about restricting malicious data—they also want to restrict what they consider malicious information, including words and ideas that can spur unrest.

Kaspersky can’t stand social networks like Facebook or its Russian competitor, VK (formerly known as VKontakte). “People can manipulate others with the fake information,” he says, “and it’s not possible to find who they are. It’s a place for very dangerous action.” Especially dangerous, he says, is the role of social networks in fueling protest movements from Tripoli to Moscow, where blogger Alexei Navalny has emerged as perhaps the most important dissident leader and sites like VK and LiveJournal have helped bring tens of thousands of people into the streets. Kaspersky sees these developments as part of a disinformation campaign by antigovernment forces to “manipulate crowds and change public opinion.”

Nikolai Patrushev—the former FSB chief who now serves as Putin’s top security adviser—makes a nearly identical case. In June he told a reporter that outside forces on the Internet are constantly creating tensions within Russian society. “Foreign sites are spreading political speculation, calls to unauthorized protests,” he says.
Yes, Kaspersky publicly touts a Kremlin-friendly line. But in Putin’s Russia, executives who neglect to do so have a disturbing habit of winding up in jail or being forced into exile. Besides, you don’t need to be a Moscow crony to push against free speech and privacy online. Plenty of Western officials are doing that too. Until 2011, Italians had to present their ID cards before using Wi-Fi at an Internet café. The European Commission is now mulling a continent-wide system of “electronic authentication.” British prime minister David Cameron contemplated cracking down on social media after the 2011 London riots. And retired US vice admiral Mike McConnell wrote in The Washington Post about the “need to reengineer the Internet to make attribution … more manageable.” He previously served as US director of national intelligence—America’s top spy.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07 ... ersky/all/
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

It is vital that the Russians are able to continue to restrain Assad from using CW. Any such use would make the conflict infinitely more unpredictable.

One of the most important sources of leverage Moscow has is not just weapons supplies, but Russia's willingness to shelter Assad's family and funds when it all falls apart at the end. They cant and wont take in someone who gassed his own population.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Turkey announces plan to build ICBM with unidentified eastern European country.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by pentaiah »

Ukraine

What will it carry paki bum?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

shyamd wrote:Diplomat: reports Assad preparing to use Sarin gas against rebels
most likely disinfo
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Virupaksha »

Johann wrote:It is vital that the Russians are able to continue to restrain Assad from using CW. Any such use would make the conflict infinitely more unpredictable.

One of the most important sources of leverage Moscow has is not just weapons supplies, but Russia's willingness to shelter Assad's family and funds when it all falls apart at the end. They cant and wont take in someone who gassed his own population.
Johann,

and unpredictable to whom? Why should it be predictable.

Right now my prediction says it will be only the western sponsored islamists coming to power in about 2 years with parachuters manning the interim, ala Libya. I want that prediction to fail.

Wasnt Saddam's CW called WMD. So they have updated the nomenclature. The methods, the propaganda have not changed an iota, they are more refined.


Deja vu anyone?? :idea:
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

South Korea wins landmark Gulf nuclear power deal
Reuters) - A South Korean group won a landmark deal to build and operate four nuclear reactors for the United Arab Emirates, beating more favored U.S. and French rivals to one of the Middle East's biggest ever energy contracts.Under the $40 billion deal announced on Sunday, which Seoul said it hoped would kick-start an export drive for its nuclear technology, the first nuclear plant in the Gulf Arab region is scheduled to start supplying power to the UAE grid in 2017.In stark contrast to the development program launched by northern Gulf neighbor Iran, the UAE's nuclear ambitions carry the blessing of its ally the United States.A consortium led by state-owned utility Korea Electric Power Corp (KEPCO) aims to complete the UAE's four 1,400 megawatt reactors by 2020.The South Korean president's office described the deal as "the largest mega-project in Korean history," while KEPCO said it was also it was in talks with Turkey to export two nuclear power reactors to Black Sea areas.
It also includes Hyundai Engineering and Construction, Samsung C&T Corp and Doosan Heavy Industries. The UAE has pledged to import the fuel it needs for reactors -- rather than attempting to enrich uranium, the fuel for nuclear power plants -- to allay fears about enrichment facilities being used to make weapons-grade material.South Korea hopes to use nascent nuclear programs in the Middle East, which include developments in Saudi Arabia and Egypt, as a springboard for expanding its nuclear industry, though the projects have fueled concerns within the international community over a regional arms race."We are now expecting much bigger opportunities in entering overseas markets as winning the UAE nuclear deal will play a role of convincing those countries in the Middle East and other regions which are thinking of importing nuclear power reactors," KEPCO said in a statement.
South Korea said it also hopes to build more plants in the UAE beyond 2020 to meet future demand."The South Korean group beat a French consortium and another group led by U.S. giant General Electric. The $20 billion Korean bid was $16 billion lower than the French group's bid, an industry source said.In addition to the deal to design and build the plants, the Korean consortium expects to earn another $20 billion by jointly operating the reactors for 60 years.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/12/ ... 5O20091227
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Syrian Ambassador for UAE has defected. Reports that 3 ambassadors from european capitals have defected but are afraid to announce publicly.

--------------------
Another 2 Russian warships have just gone past the straits of gibraltar on way to the Syrian coast. On board they have russian marines.. Iran threatens to intervene if any one else intervenes in Syria.

British flotilla and French CDG air craft carrier on way. Turkey will be closing borders tomorrow and they have beefed up military presence on the borders including specialist team to deal with chemical weapons.. Kurds are also despatching soldiers into Syrian "western" kurdistan.

RUSI (think tank) in london says western intervention looking likely.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Israel is discovering that a chemical weapon can be smuggled to Hezbollah within a few hours making intervention very difficult.

Source says Turkish intervention in Kurdish areas of Syria is a matter of time and they dont want the area to be exploited by the PKK to launch attacks against Turkish troops.
This is in relation to the additional troops deployed on the Turkish border especially on the Kurdish side.

---------------------------------

A second level syrian diplomat in Oman has defected

-----------------
1/3rd of all Tanks and APCs that were sent to support the operation in Aleppo were destroyed today. Rebels have significantly stepped up ther game
Last edited by shyamd on 25 Jul 2012 22:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by pentaiah »

Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind.
John F. Kennedy
and he started the Vietnam war
"JFK was the first president to send a large number of troops (20.200) to Vietnam
and it was only under his presidency that America started suffering
large number of war casualties."
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Turkish PM confirms that he will ask military to retaliate if attacked from northern Syria.
Confirms that northern Syria is under the control of 'terrorists' (PKK)

We are now poised for Turkish intervention. Doubt it will be an invasion.

CIA/MIT are coordinating with KRG and restructuring their intelligence into 1. KRG support to the operations will be crucial.
Theo_Fidel

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Shyam,

Was that equipment sent from Damascus? Media gives that impression but that is an almost impossible route to take. I suspect most it is equipment that was hiding in local bases too afraid to move out. The Aleppo action seems to be designed to draw the military out of the Aleppo bases so the FSA can have go at them.

Without infantry support Tanks & heavy equipment is a sitting duck and quite easily destroyed. Assad has not learned this lesson of WWII.

In all the hoo-haa over Damascus what was not reported is that all troops have vanished from Daara, Homs and Hasakha areas.

Another little appreciated development is that all local police and civil administration has ceased to exist in the country. Only the Army remains, yet after an attack there is nothing for the army to turn the conquered land over to.

Sooner or later a Misrata is going to happen, when Assad orders his most loyal force in and it gets massacred to the last man. That will be the end of the military struggle and the beginning of the pea-shooting campaign...
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Nope the armoured division was pulled out from Idlib to focus on Aleppo. You see Aleppo is the business hub of the country. If they lose Aleppo, that is a major loss. The actual hits on the armoured divisions - took place on the way to Aleppo from Idlib.

He is losing a lot of troops to defections and casualties. His oil supply lines are still there but are slowly being cut, financially with the sanctions he will be hit quite a bit as many pro regime businesses operate in the west and the GCC.

Russia and Iran are trying to support them financially, but he can't afford to pay his militia and is banking on the support from the private sector biz run by cronies. Its a matter of time before he can't pay his troops and slowly it will collapse.

I think he'll call up on his billions and will try and fight to the end and will count on support from the alawite units.

As you can see he transfered chemical weapon stocks to airports in the south and some in the west. But Israel realises now that it is too difficult to prevent the transfer to Hezbollah. So, you can imagine what Aman (IDF mili intel) and Mossad are thinking. They need the best intelligence now.

israeli problem is that if Hezballah get the chemical weapons - Hezbollah already have the SCUD D I think, so balance of power will move slightly favourably with Hezbollah.

For Israel, its the survival of thier small population. For Turkey, they are staring at territory that can become a base for PKK operations to launch attacks into Turkey. If PKK get access to a lot of funding, then this causes a bigger problem for TK.

Al Qaeda is now running the Iraq/Syria border.

All in all - one big explosive situation.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by pentaiah »

Scud D is a very unreliable weapon, dispersing Chemical weapon using rocket is not easy nor effective/efficient.
Saddam used his MiGs and Mirage fighters to drop them on Kurds.

Added later
Did some one say De ja vu?
WAR IN IRAQ

Intelligence Suggests Hussein Allowed Chemical-Weapon Use

By GREG JAFFE, Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Source: Wall Street Journal, March 20, 2003

Intelligence reports suggest Saddam Hussein already has given his field-level commanders clearance to launch chemical and biological weapons, Pentagon officials say. Those reports have led defense officials to conclude there is a high probability the U.S. military will face them on the battlefield.

It is impossible to predict if or when these commanders might fire the weapons. In the prior Gulf War, the Iraqi military loaded 75 Scud warheads, hundreds of aerial bombs and thousands of rockets and artillery shells with chemical and biological agents. Mr. Hussein told commanders to pull the trigger if U.S. troops appeared to move on Baghdad. The commanders never appeared to have launched such weapons.

It is unclear precisely what orders field commanders have been given this time. One school of thought suggests that Mr. Hussein, realizing he will lose any international support the moment he unleashes his arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, would hold back using the weapons until his demise is all but certain.

"Our best assessment is that Saddam will use them only when he realizes it's a lost cause -- when U.S. troops are moving on Baghdad," one defense-intelligence official said. These officials argue that the weapons tend not to be very effective on the battlefield, particularly in a dry, windy desert where they dissipate quickly.

Another school of thought holds that Mr. Hussein knows he is doomed and will use his chemical and biological weapons early in an effort to bring Israel into the war. The Israelis have said they would strike back if Iraq launches a chemical or biological attack, which in turn could alienate U.S. Arab allies.

To head off that possibility, the Pentagon has sent large numbers of special-operations commandos as well as high-tech surveillance to western Iraq to hunt down and destroy mobile Scud launchers within range of Israel. The U.S. also has been conducting a large-scale psychological-operations campaign to warn Iraqi officers that they will be tried for war crimes if they follow orders and launch a biological- or chemical-weapons attack.

The United Nations estimates that Mr. Hussein has as much as 200 tons of deadly VX nerve agent, which is so lethal that even a small drop on the skin can quickly lead to death. In addition, he likely has a massive store of mustard gas, which isn't as lethal, but still potentially deadly. Less is known about his biological-weapons program, which is thought to include potentially huge stores of anthrax, botulinum toxin and ricin.

But the Iraqi dictator's ability to deliver those weapons on the battlefield and in neighboring countries is limited. The Iraqis likely have only a couple of dozen long-range Scud missiles, capable of hitting Israel, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. These missiles, which can travel distances of about 400 miles, are woefully inaccurate and can carry only a relatively small payload of deadly agents.

In addition to his Scuds, Pentagon planners believe Mr. Hussein possesses hundreds of specially modified short-range rockets and artillery shells that can travel as much as 60 miles. Each shell, however, can't carry much agent. And it is unlikely Mr. Hussein will be able to get off many shots before they are destroyed by U.S. planes. Finally, the Iraqi leader has assembled a fleet of unmanned planes capable of spraying large amounts of agent, but which are slow moving and would make easy targets.

Pentagon officials say their best bet for stopping a chemical or biological attack is to destroy Iraqi Scud launchers, which are heavy trucks with missiles mounted on their backs. In the first Gulf War, the U.S. didn't destroy a single launcher, however, as their mobility made them hard to find.

Just as it did in that conflict, the Pentagon has sent large teams of special-operations commandos into western Iraq, where the launchers need to be located to be within range of Israel. In addition, the Pentagon has deployed new unmanned surveillance planes capable of loitering over a piece of ground for dozens of hours at a time and can beam live images to commanders, fighter pilots and special-operations soldiers on the ground.

Another major concern worrying war planners is that Mr. Hussein will send a small group of commandos to carry out a chemical or biological attack using a crop duster, a truck or a boat. Potential targets include U.S. bases in the Middle East, major Middle Eastern or Israeli cities and possibly the U.S.

Such an attack would be difficult to pull off. If wind and temperature conditions weren't exactly right, the cloud of chemical or biological agent might blow harmlessly out to sea or disappear into the upper atmosphere. Still, if the commandos were to strike a crowded base or city, thousands could die. To guard against this possibility, the Pentagon has quietly deployed large numbers of new chemical detectors, capable of detecting an agent in seconds, and biological detectors that can identify an agent in about 45 minutes, to U.S. bases abroad as well as the Pentagon and other potential targets in Washington. the Pentagon has called up hundreds of thousands of reservists to guard U.S. bases at home and in Europe.

Paradoxically, commanders are least worried about chemical and biological attacks against front-line ground troops pushing toward Baghdad. Because these troops will be fairly dispersed, they aren't a good target for chemical or biological weapons.
Last edited by pentaiah on 26 Jul 2012 00:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

^^^^Also has psy impact: CW and Holocaust memories.

I don't care for Turkey's Kurdish problem. Its a hangover of the Empire legacy. Kurds have been split over many modern states: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey. All part of the Anglo-French mandate post WWI.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

pentaiah wrote:Scud D is a very unreliable weapon, dispersing Chemical weapon using rocket is not easy nor effective/efficient.
Saddam used his MiGs and Mirage fighters to drop them on Kurds.

Added later
Did some one say De ja vu?
Lol. Sir, if you are having trouble believing that chemical weapons are held by Syria - please see this press conference by the foreign ministry spokesman: It was shot by Press TV too to make it more authentic and not western psyops. Forward it to 2.42 where he explains it in english in precise terms what the Syrian position is on WMDs:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqjWzGfOLlE
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Gulf assessment is that the Bashar inner circle has regained their composure after the hit of the top 4. So we can expect more blood
The use of aircraft is seen as revenge on the rebels but still hasn't managed to damage the rebels.

Moving chemical weapons to airports show his intent to use them.

Analysing the new appointments - they say that All the faces are known faces fom hafez Asad time and shows that the inner circle is controlled by the same circle.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

Wesley Clark in 2007, talking about about plans by elite families to take out Syria and others -

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

FSA have promised to get rid of AQ fighters. Clashes have taken place already. Locals are suspicious of foreign fighters.
Reports say afghans and pakis are staying in a village north of idlib close to the Turkish border
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

An article from 2007, about the planning for the Arab Spring -
THE REDIRECTION
Is the Administration’s new policy benefitting our enemies in the war on terrorism?

by Seymour M. Hersh
MARCH 5, 2007

Efforts to curb Iran’s influence have involved the United States in worsening Sunni-Shiite tensions.
A STRATEGIC SHIFT

In the past few months, as the situation in Iraq has deteriorated, the Bush Administration, in both its public diplomacy and its covert operations, has significantly shifted its Middle East strategy. The “redirection,” as some inside the White House have called the new strategy, has brought the United States closer to an open confrontation with Iran and, in parts of the region, propelled it into a widening sectarian conflict between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.

To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda.


Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007 ... z21jdgyyOq
Worth reading in full.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

Aleppo is surrounded by a network of villages. Most of the people fighting in Aleppo itself are not from the city but from those villages. Many of them have relatives in the working class areas within the city. The other group involved are university students from the city. So there is an element of class conflict there.

The young rural men had been the backbone of the Baathist revolution until the economic reforms under Bashar from 2001 onwards.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by brihaspati »

While overthrow of Qaddafi was something for me to rejoice over - because Q was an opportunist who did not hesitate to play the K card, and had the billions to channelize if necessary without casting any direct aspersion on his western handles intof funding jihadis against India, I do sincerely wish that Assad holds out longer.

The best would be a prolonged conflict that goes in no one's favour. The Saudis need to vanish - and longer the Syrian conflict drags on, the official regime now in the western sector of Gulf weakens. AQ types take over when Sauds weaken, which in turn sets the chain unravelling finally. The dissolution of that evil nexus between transnational financier-criminal syndicates, oil, and imperialists that has been the gift to IOR of the slave-drugs-trade British empire.

Assad's continuance to hold out, unravels a key calculation in the strategic layout of the war planned for ME. The entire frontal pivot lies now in northern Syria. A quick fall of that was necessary for the next stages in the plan that followed Iraq, but it has not happened. Only tactic now left is to activate the Kurds - which would immediately sour the Turkish pitch, as well as give guarantees of statehood that the west was so far reluctant to give [this is not a Kosovo on which a overnight volteface can be made - there it was about supporting Muslims against Orthdox, the latter lowerin pecking order to Muslims anyway from the two other sects.]

Tricky. The longer Assad takes to fall, the stronger will be the Islamist takeover when he falls. Which is desirable.
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