Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

[RajeshA]

RajeshA ji, filliing the gaps in history using the concept of Yugas, does not have a direct link with OIT. You could be highjacking your own thread.

ravi_g ji,

the reason, I am talking about the Yugas is because basically they are our prime calendar that is not really being used.

There are different ways in how people look at Yugas

1. as timeline partition, a calendar,
   1. which was established before time immemorial
   2. with the advent of Kali Yuga linked to death of Sri Krishna
   3. with the advent of Kali Yuga beginning with a linear alignment of planets
   4. with divya years (360 factor) vs. (human) solar years
2. as a metaphor for the degeneration level of Indic society
3. as a system of time spans in which various number of avatars would appear

If we have to say present our 20,000 year old history, what calendar are we going to present it in? Are we always going to be using BCE (before common era) or YBP (years before present)? There are some Hindu and Buddhist Calendars, but do these go as far back that one could state the birth of Rama on such and such date of such and such Hindu Calendar? I am not so well-versed in all this, so perhaps gurus can comment!

But my opinion, is that we should use the Yuga Cycle as our calendar and standardize all our history based on Yuga Cycle Calendar. I also think, it is possible that the Yuga Cycle of 24,000 years corresponds to one "precession of equinoxes" even though people say the latter is 25,772 years long. The precession is speeding up. For more information see the research done by Binary Research Institute.

If we once had such a good time measurement system, why should we not go back to it. The Georgian Calendar is okay, and we can still use it, but for our history, we should present it according to our own Calendar. And since our history is so long, only the Yuga Cycle Calendar would do our history justice.

This is relevant to OIT, because in order to lend weight to our claims, we first need to present our claims consistently. I think dates which are presented positively have a far better weight, than those which are presented negatively, e.g. B.C. or BCE.

I also fail to understand why are we using divya years to partition our timeline. It says Ramayana happened in Treta Yuga. If we use "divya varsha", then we land 725,000 years ago plus the time in Treta Yuga itself. The time difference between Ramayana and Mahabharata would have been 720,000 years, which to me doesn't make sense. Sri Yukteswar as such ask us to divide time differently, not in divya varsha but rather in common human years. Then it makes sense. That would put Ramayana between 9,102 BC - 5,502 BC which is understandable.

Here is a great post by "Kaushal" aka Kosla Vepa who posted an excerpt from his book. It goes into the need for divine years.

[RajeshA]

RajeshA, The loss of guidance and change in values is what elders imply when they say its Kali Yuga.
The entire Mahabharata is written/talked about/criticised by learned and unlearned people only to understand what changed and whether the change is for the better or worse.
The science based scholars think of it as a timeline when its about changes in civilzational values.

ramana garu,

I mention in my previous post some different views on Kali Yuga.

I think it is fine for spiritual people to postulate about the varying values one observes in various Yugas. But our scriptures clearly make the case that the Yugas are for the purpose of partitioning the timeline, i.e. to be used as a calendar.

In fact even till date many in India who use traditional calendars make reference to the 17/18 February 3102 BCE (in the proleptic Julian Calendar), when Kali Yuga ostensibly started.

I would see the Timekeeping according to Yuga Cycle and the metaphysics of Yuga Cycle separately, though both as equally justified perspectives.

[RajeshA]

By Kosla Vepa
The Story of the Indic Cosmology and the Celestial Time Keepers

[Nilesh Oak]

Below are links to two scenarios for Arundhati/Vasistha. (Each is ~60 Sec ~ 1 min long)

(1) How Vasistha walks ahead of Arundhati. In our times and, going back, until 4508 BC. In both videos, I have marked another reference star from 'Saptarshi region of sky - 81 Ursa Majoris. This will allow you to note the change in orientation of Arundhati/Vasistha with resepect to North celestial Pole. Note that change has occurred due to movement of North Celestial pole and not due to movement of Arundhati/Vasistha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKH1pr5H0VA


(2) How Arundhati walks ahead of Vasistha. During the time of Mahabharata (and during unique time interval, albeit ~6500 years long - 110911 BC - 4508 BC) 5561 BC, year of Mahabharata War.

I created this second clip as a Book Trailer when it was published in June 2011. Sure you can read the interesting stuff that appears on the screen, however the reason I am posting it is for you to observe relative positions of Arundhati/Vasistha as they move through the sky. You may want to watch this clip twice, first focusing on write up and second time focusing on Arundhati/Vasistha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWUFU99UV0

[Virendra]

However I do have evidence (need validation/verification)that Indians of last 1500-2000 years did have the belief that Kailiyuga began on 3102 BC.

That is what has been propagated as late as Kota Venkatachelum in 1950s.

[Atri]

The Aihole inscription of Pulikesin too supports 3101 BCE as onset of Kaliyuga...

[RajeshA]

The Aihole inscription of Pulikesin too supports 3101 BCE as onset of Kaliyuga...

According to Wikipedia article the relevant portion is

(V. 33.) (Now) when thirty (and) three thousand and five years besides, joined with seven hundred years, have passed since the Bharata war;

(V. 34.) And when fifty (and) six and five hundred years of the Saka kings also have gone by in the Kali age;

[RajeshA]

Books for Library



Publication Date: September 19, 1994
Editor: Prof. Robert H. Layton
Contributor: Rai Gyan Narayan Prasad
Who Needs the Past?: Indigenous Values in Archaeology
Chapter 12: Beginning of Agriculture: Synchronism between Puranic and archaeological evidence

According to Rai Gyan Narayan Prasad Chaturyuga == Manvantara!



Page 151.

One may like to read a bit of the Google Book to understand him better. He compares the Manvantaras to various glaciation periods during human existence!

[member_23629]

What happened to the discussion about OIT?

[RajeshA]

What happened to the discussion about OIT?

We are just looking at the Indian timeline to know where to put Out-of-India migration!

You are free to discuss other aspects of OIT! What do you wish to contribute to the discussion? Go ahead!

[RajeshA]

Mahabharata resources:

[SaiK]

^Interesting periods of existence.. it all ends up as even numbers. Wondering anyone done more math to it? Basically, I still don't understand HOW did they arrive at these numbers?

[RajeshA]

Since some have commented that the discussion may be veering off the tracks, I would like to put forth a clarification of how I see the matter.

This thread's main objective is to discuss

• Out-of-India migrations,
• weaknesses of Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory
• Political, Strategic and Civilizational aspects of above theories

I would like to propose that closely associated with the AIT/AMT/OIT is the question of India's Antiquity, especially our Sanskrit antiquity, because that is what the proponents of AIT do not want to allow us.

This thread has added a few more aspects of the issue at hand. The agenda of the AIT-Nazis has been broader. It is to deny India

1. Our Antiquity
2. Sanskrit
3. Rig Vedic Pantheon and Cosmology
4. Accomplishments in Mathematics
5. Accomplishments in Astronomy
6. Indic Time Keeping
7. Accomplishments in Medicine

That is why we have discussed all of the above.

We have of late also indulged in discussions more focused on the issue of our Antiquity. For only if we have antiquity to show can we make the claim that migrations took place out of India long time back.

The aim of discussion on Yugas was to explore which system of time keeping is suitable to express our Antiquity, and whether the Yuga system itself says something about our antiquity.

[RajeshA]

^Interesting periods of existence.. it all ends up as even numbers. Wondering anyone done more math to it? Basically, I still don't understand HOW did they arrive at these numbers?

Sri Yukteswar, Rai Gyan Narain Prasad, and some others who advocate we look at Yuga Cycles in human years rather than Divya years, have all proposed various reasons for their timeline partition.

One would need to explore those reasons!

[member_22872]

^^^ Rajesh garu, you list will grow longer as the thread longevity grows as we start to discover how else Rg Veda and other texts defined Indic civilization and shaped it.

[RajeshA]

venug ji,

I hope not! The thread is not really there to discuss the full gamut of Indian Civilization, just that part which is being suppressed by the West and their minions in India as part of a vile agenda!

[SaiK]

^Interesting periods of existence.. it all ends up as even numbers. Wondering anyone done more math to it? Basically, I still don't understand HOW did they arrive at these numbers?

Sri Yukteswar, Rai Gyan Narain Prasad, and some others who advocate we look at Yuga Cycles in human years rather than Divya years, have all proposed various reasons for their timeline partition.

One would need to explore those reasons!

interesting.. on the contrary, we have to right size the years say when puran (for example) tells hanuman's age or rama's 14 year exile is actually something divided by 360?

[Nilesh Oak]

This thread's main objective is to discuss

• Out-of-India migrations,
• weaknesses of Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory
• Political, Strategic and Civilizational aspects of above theories

Relevance of my work on the dating of Mahabharata War is as follows

(1) Shatapatha Brahmana Baudhayana Sratasutra reference makes a strong case for Westward (to Iran, Afganistan and further west) and Eastward (to eastern UP/southern Nepal/Bihar - i.e. Kuru Panchala and Kashi-Videha) migrations, few generations after King Pururava. Since time of King Pururava is AT LEAST 55 generation before Mahabharata, this refers to migration (Out of India) 55 generations before 5561 BC. (Avoid the temptation to assume a number per generation and multiply it by 55...you will be deceived... you are warned. )

(2) If AIT claim is understood to be (these AIT-Nazis can not even state their proposal clearly) migration to India sometime ~ 1500 BC of Sanskrit speaking Aryans who also introduced horses to India for the first time, then these AIT-Nazis should be held accountable and forced to explain my work for their timeline. Impossible!
To me, that is burying AIT for good. In my entire book, I have deliberately avoided using the word AIT.

(3) If my timeline for MBH war is accepted (if one does not accept it, s/he better explain why, other than they strongly feel against it....typical Wit-mer language), the political and civilizational implications are numerous - for IVC (as post Vedic, post Ramayana, post Mahabharata period of Indian civilization), for Sanskrit, for Astronomy, for domestication of Horses, chariots, technology, Dharmashastra, agriculture....list is long.

[Atri]

I like Immortals of Meluha series precisely for this reason. He has set the story in post ramayana india where sindhu, ganga and godavari valley based people are at war with each other. In part three he will be bringing in the kaveri valley as well. The disintegration od sri rama'd India with time and her reintegration under influence of mahadeva.

[ramana]

RajeshA, One also needs to take account of the yuga or kala of Sri Yukteswarji. Indian civilization was under Macaulayite attack and Western time scale linked to the idea of Biblical beginnings. So he might have reduced the time scale factor to be in conformity with Western ideas of beginnings.

Most commentators have the long scale for the yugas.

I believe the Hindu version of time for the modern version mankind progresses too rapidly.

[SaiK]

Didn't surgery went OiT?.. and the western people onlee know about Arabic instruments etc. stolen from Shusruta's work, by prophet M's cousin or uncle?

--found some link

PS:

http://www.ispub.com/journal/the-intern ... 0-b-c.html
Sushruta, one of the earliest surgeons of the recorded history (600 B.C.) is believed to be the first individual to describe plastic surgery. Sushruta who lived nearly 150 years before Hippocrates vividly described the basic principles of plastic surgery in his famous ancient treatise 'Sushruta Samhita' 1,2 in 600 B.C. 'Sushruta Samhita'(Sushruta's compendium) which is one of the oldest treatise dealing with surgery in the world indicates that he was probably the first surgeon to perform plastic surgical operations. This paper presents a historical window into various contributions of Sushruta to plastic surgery and allied fields which were described in 'Sushruta Samhita' more than 2500 millennia ago.

[Nilesh Oak]

Didn't surgery went OiT?.. and the western people onlee know about Arabic instruments etc. stolen from Shusruta's work, by prophet M's cousin or uncle?

--found some link

PS:

Knowledge transfer can take place without people (entire communities) moving to new location. So this is more of a out of India -knowledge migration, but not in the sense of OIT we are discussing here.

On a side note, related to antiquity, first edition (or earliest of available to us edition of Sushruta Samhita) could be from as early as 4000 BC , based on astronomy references in it. (Again, may not be relevant for OIT).

[Pratyush]

I am a late arrival on this thread & my question is primary of a political / social nature.

From my understanding, considering the repudiation of the translation of the word Arian by Max Muller late in his life. Along with the addition of the correct translation of the word Arya. The question that I have, is why did the Indian historians not expunge the AIT BS, when India became Independent. As a free nation India had no need to perpetuate AIT / AMT. What was it that made the Indian historians accept & perpetuate such an blatant falsehood in the Indian text books.

[member_22872]

Nehru himself was a proponent/adherent of AIT, he had taken for granted the dates of Rg Veda given by Max Mueller to be true. If a prime minister himself thinks so, it is but a logical conclusion what he can do with history syllabus and official Indian stand.

[SaiK]

Nilesh, you are confusing me.. so, the basic question again.. can someone recap on the objectives, and in what sense this OiT is being discussed? I wasn't sure if medicine and ways-of-living can be delinked. If horses can stand proof of a theory, so are surgical devices. Unless, there was a sudden turn of objectives that happened in this thread.. I may be wrong since, I can't devote reading everything posted, except those that sparkles and makes aam minds understand.

--

[objective: to link OiT, with pottery and civilization... culture of arts and history go hand in hand to link connections. transformations and trades can lay some foundations for OiT theory. If we have lived some 1000s of years back before AIT, to disprove it, then these links help is my thought]

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-an ... 716916.ece The number 400 has magically clung to the history of Hyderabad. Anuradha argues, “Before 400 years ago, maybe this city wasn’t called Hyderabad. But people lived here. We went back as far as we could in our research.” Clay pots unearthed during an excavation at University of Hyderabad, Gachibowli, showed evidence of civilisation in this area 3,500 to 4,000 years ago. Pointing at the photographs of the excavation, she says, “This is the oldest megalithic site in India, dating back to 2000 B.C.”

[Nilesh Oak]

Nehru himself was a proponent/adherent of AIT, he had taken for granted the dates of Rg Veda given by Max Mueller to be true. If a prime minister himself thinks so, it is but a logical conclusion what he can do with history syllabus and official Indian stand.

Venug ji,

You beat me to this. I was going to say the same. Thank you.

Also look at the academic masterpiece for social science - JNU (may be just coincidence) but many marxist inclined (or totoally brainwashed) individuals in such establishments. Nehru was also of socialist/communist bent and atheist. By being atheist by itself is not a serious disqualification (and same thing would apply to being marxist) but have a mind free form an angenda.. or even when one has agenda, ability and williness to change one's mind in the light of new evidence. (B B Lal is a good and respectable example of this... archeologist ..now , of course he is now downgraded by institution of academic prostitution).

[Nilesh Oak]

Saik Ji,

If I have confused you, please ignore my comment on Sushruta and Sushruta Samhita.

It is unfair of anyone to ask you to read all the posts in the thread. If you go backwards few posts of last 1-2 days, RajeshA ji recapped the objectives of this thread.

Regards

[SaiK]

Nilesh, the point was not to ignore, but to justify the links as valid to this thread. I did read RajeshA's recap, but may be I missed the points that discussing about medicine et al that is attributed to human existence, can't be ignored in any theory that is abstract enough to talk about migration. Even military technology is enough to prove migration, or using toothpaste too.

So, it would be very difficult to disregard any thing that originated in India, and proves that it has origins in India rather outside. This is the basic fundamental axiom that AiT folks are using, that nothing here except that is dravdianic is indic. If we can prove that dravidianic and aryanic are names originated from firang conspirators, then that is not enough to justify or prove or recover from the harm done already to our country.

We are so deeply divided, and especially this aryan-dravidian divide is brass-tack [world war equivalent] attack on India, where our divided culture by language, style, etc.. are not unit-able, except our core majority ways of living or religion (as described by firang). Hindutivic or indic culture has to be attacked to get India dislocated [AiTians have achieved this to a great extent]. Only if dravidians and aryans are divided either by color or zone or some characteristics, .. this will further continue.

That is my understanding, and counter point arguments where we could focus on or correct the objectives. We need to break the AiT nazis from this attack on us.

[Nilesh Oak]

Saik Ji,

I agree with everything you are saying in the last post. I have said what I wanted to say about Surshuta samhita in my previous post, so wont repeat.

The relevant and broader point is... (I agree with you)

We should look for any and all evidence that points to Outward direction (as oppposed to inward direction). My points is some evidences are better fitted to refute AIT nonsense than others.

e.g. Genetics.. (while it struggles with time stamp.. i.e. when) is very good (still evolving and we have barely touched Y chromosome.. for most part current research is on mitochondria.. mother side of the gene) in telling the direction of migration, but still not conclusive (at least for now. It is conclusive to me.. but AIT-Nazis will always take the part convenient for their hypothesis and make a big deal out of it.. and for now.. they control resources, academia etc.)

or

Astronomy - I consider it very strong, especially the type of evidence we can show (which many others including my humble self have shown) that when Indians refer to a phenomenon (either they had ability to back calculate or they made accurate visual observations... AIT-Nazis have nowhere to run.. of course they try.. but that is ok).

And we can think of many more..

Horse, knowlege of mathematics (e.g. Zero and infinity), technology, medicine, IMHO, falls into open categories where AIT-Nazis can go in circles, like a Do Loop with no stop.

In any case, I am new to BRF, and I have not read all the posts even on this thread. So please forgive me if I have caused any confusion.

[SaiK]

Nilesh ji, thanks for the corroborations. Me no expert here as Rajeshji et al are., and I am just interested in reading few of the links and posts, and certain reasoning to gain knowledge. My confusion was mine, and not yours. So, please to continue your empowered blissful posts, and nothing happened to ask forgiveness [ ].

[RajeshA]

RajeshA, One also needs to take account of the yuga or kala of Sri Yukteswarji. Indian civilization was under Macaulayite attack and Western time scale linked to the idea of Biblical beginnings. So he might have reduced the time scale factor to be in conformity with Western ideas of beginnings.

Most commentators have the long scale for the yugas.

I believe the Hindu version of time for the modern version mankind progresses too rapidly.

Sri Yukteswar was definitely in awe of Britannia. In fact he offered some theories which would make one raise one's eyebrows. Actually he bought the AIT-Nazi propaganda that Mahabharata is from the first millennium. Next he gives a funny reason that the Yuga calendar system broke because when the King Yuddhishtr transferred the reign over to Parikshit, he did not wish the reign of Parikshit to be placed in Kali Yuga which was about to start. Secondly when the Pandavas retired into the mountains, Parikshit lost all intricate knowledge of astronomy and failed to do the time keeping properly. All very absurd propositions.

But his proposal to reconsider the Yuga system deserves merit.

Now I am sure that the divya year factor (x 360) is necessary for the astronomical calculations. It has perhaps a role to play in calculating the precession of the equinoxes.

But human society does not span over many many millions of years. Its no use using a calendar for the human society, where the shortest span is 432,000 years, but it consists of multiple such spans.

If we take the divya years, the historicity of Ramayana runs into absurdity as that would put the Ramayana, which is in Treta Yuga at least 869,000 years ago plus the time in Treta Yuga which is as long as 1,296,000 years long!

So for human society we should use the solar year based Yuga Cycle (24,000 years), and for the astronomical phenomenon one uses the divya years.

Now that is my personal opinion, and I don't wish to force it onto others.

I think, when the archaeoastronomical evidence for Ramayana comes through, then one would also know when Treta Yuga was and I don't expect it to be a million years ago!

[RajeshA]

Modern Medicine is a Direct Continuation of Ayurveda

There is some effort to portray modern medicine as a direct evolution from Greek medicine. The post link above disputes this contention.

[Nilesh Oak]

Method of Science

It can be explained in less than ~60 sec.

All time great Richard Feynman,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b240PGCMwV0

[SaiK]

Even method of religion or ways of living is based on experiences, which begins with guesses., but they very delta time spaced, and has faster life span from unknown-discovery-bliss., and and back to being unknown. The reason, we have invented papers and information storage these days. Our brains have limited capability to remember.

Our stories are easier to understand and say.. and the reason, we need to reverse engineer our stories to actual natural events that would have happened. Even mythical subjects and objects can be converted to natural objects and events, to study.. and follow the same guess work.

The problem is it would still dis-qualify for the experiment, because one can't do it... it is the past, and gone. One can only theorize., and that would perhaps be accepted as experimental enough.

[AniB]

matrimc
Can you help estimate the error in Voyager (and other archaeostronomy) software due to round -offs and dependence on initial conditions? Is it really accurate to ~3 dgrees for positions 7000 years ago.
Nilesh ji apologies if you have already covered these error estimates. My copy of your book is on order.

[shiv]

What was it that made the Indian historians accept & perpetuate such an blatant falsehood in the Indian text books.

They believed what they were taught. They were not taught to think for themselves. The same holds true for a lot of academics today who are pushing modern variants of AIT. People are sheep. They follow. Breaking off into a new path is more difficult.

Indians fully subscribed to and believed the notion that if they were high caste fair skinned and north Indian they belonged to a superior Sanskrit speaking race that invaded and displaced inferior black Dravidian people who became the lower castes and Dravidians of India. I think that before the academics are exorcised, we could also ask why the theory is attractive to educated Indians. It is. And because that theory has become popular among Indians, the Church is now working on a counter theory to make the formerly "inferior", "low caste" "Dravidians" move away from Hinduism the religion of the high caste fair skinned north Indian Indo-Aryans to egalitarian Chrsitianity. Remember that the border for Dravidian is "South of Vindhyas" so its not about 4 souther states. The saala kaala races extend from Jhrakhand, Chattisgarh, Orissa etc right across south central India into the southern states. The Kandha,al riots were aronud Kandhamal in Orissa. Not "South India". Latitude wise Kandhamal is north of Mumbai.

In my view we need a comprehensive killing of the notion of the existence of the inferior black skinned Dravidian, whose existence was invented because it was necessary to invent it as support for the Aryan Invasion theory. If there was not Aryan invasion, there were no separate Dravidians. the people were all connected up by language and culture. The AIT has brought in a divide in India by telling ever light complexioned Sanskritic or high caste Indian that he belongs to a superior category of human being that exists above the inferior black skinned low caste guy. It makes the former feel good and makes him feel close to the advanced western races. Indian scholars and historians too come with these pre-installed biases.

[JwalaMukhi]

The AIT has brought in a divide in India by telling ever light complexioned Sanskritic or high caste Indian that he belongs to a superior category of human being that exists above the inferior black skinned low caste guy. It makes the former feel good and makes him feel close to the advanced western races. Indian scholars and historians too come with these pre-installed biases.

Here is a more recent example of that phenomena. The sad part: most of the Indian students who attended that lecture were amused and swallowed that hook, line and sinker. Anyways, how come the stoopid "so called dravidians" fall hook, line and sinker to a theory to adopt egalitarian cult, that puts fair skinned indians closer to western goras, rather than the equalizer it is supposed to provide for the dirty and the dark.
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/us ... 25966.html

A US diplomat was caught in a row after her remarks of "dirty and dark" Tamilians, prompting the American Consulate here to term them as "inappropriate".

"I was on a 24-hour train trip from Delhi to Orissa. But, after 72 hours, the train still did not reach the destination... and my skin became dirty and dark like the Tamilians," US Vice-Consul Maureen Chao said, going down the memory lane two decades ago when she was a student.

[shiv]

One of the more difficult issues related to the Aryan Invasion Theory is the extent to which it is attractive to Indians. It is ironic that the theory was not only without any truth or merit, but it was used to make the conqueror/coloniser (British) win allies among the Indian population.

No firm lines were drawn, but vague lines were drawn saying that forward caste=lighter skin=superior=Aryan=Sanskrit language based North Indian, Indao-Aryan language speaker. Backward caste=dark skinned= Dravdian=non Indo-Aryan speaker=South Indian.

Indians believe this and the Wit-mer prize has for long been cornered by Indians.

It you look at forward caste versus backward caste percentages in India you find that even in north Indian states like Rajasthan, Gujarat and UP, backward castes make up more than half the population. Yet the racist theories are attractive, and because they are attractive, they lead secondarily to discrimination and the apology-penance ("We're so sorry") of reservation.

In the last 200 years the west has placed itself as the pinnacle of power and innovation, and that has been associated with white and European. One class of Indians have been made to feel good about themselves for being fair skinned India European speakers and imagine that they belong a special higher class of Indian. That classification is fake and baseless. Forget Witzel. How about changing perceptions inside India?

[member_20317]

Nilesh ji,

I gather you are using Voyager 4.5 which is listed by the developer as advanced astronomer level software.

I guess even if one is given a super computer and all the present day knowledge, even then some minor error would creep in.

Also I would be greatful if you could let us know how exactly the calculations are done by your software:

1) does it first calculate the relative motion of heavenly bodies as somekind of a developing trend (say as it would appear to somebody in Devyani Galaxy), which is then translated into the night sky as it would appear ; or

2) does it attempt to reverse calculate the night sky straight away from the presently observed positions based on some logic that has been perfected.

[svinayak]

What was it that made the Indian historians accept & perpetuate such an blatant falsehood in the Indian text books.

They believed what they were taught. They were not taught to think for themselves. The same holds true for a lot of academics today who are pushing modern variants of AIT. People are sheep. They follow. Breaking off into a new path is more difficult.

Indians fully subscribed to and believed the notion that if they were high caste fair skinned and north Indian they belonged to a superior Sanskrit speaking race that invaded and displaced inferior black Dravidian people who became the lower castes and Dravidians of India.

The main reason is the pshycological condition of the colonized people. If one reads Tilaks book and other leaders before Indepedence , we find that they considered themselves to be similar to the white europeans. This is due to unique contact of the British with the Indians in India from 1600s. Once the English figured out that Indians are numerous in number they had to coopt them. English Merchants kept excellant relationship with the Indian merchants throughtout. They made the uppercaste feel as if they were similar to the British. Colonial Maps of political geography showed India as similiar race(Aryans) to the British.

The use of Aryans as Europeans and same as the British was a masterstoke by the British which allowed them to be accepted by the Indian elite, uppercaste and ruling regime without any resistance.

I think that before the academics are exorcised, we could also ask why the theory is attractive to educated Indians. It is. And because that theory has become popular among Indians, the Church is now working on a counter theory to make the formerly "inferior", "low caste" "Dravidians" move away from Hinduism the religion of the high caste fair skinned north Indian Indo-Aryans to egalitarian Chrsitianity. Remember that the border for Dravidian is "South of Vindhyas" so its not about 4 souther states. The saala kaala races extend from Jhrakhand, Chattisgarh, Orissa etc right across south central India into the southern states. The Kandha,al riots were aronud Kandhamal in Orissa. Not "South India". Latitude wise Kandhamal is north of Mumbai.

Fair skinned and dark color was social choice created by the interaction of the British with the Indians. Anglo Indian practice created smilar choie with the Indian upper caste who discriminated against darker progeny and siblongs