Indian Naval Discussion

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chetak
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by chetak »

negi wrote:Titash I think you missed my point; my question is what was the role envisaged for Naval Dhruv ? It cannot be ASW which is currently carried out by Seaking and Ka-28 for the payload required to carry out such a mission is heavier than what Dhruv can lift , I also realize that Seaking and the Kamov both were imported as is and hence it is not like they were designed around IN's requirements. It is obvious that Dhruv can replace the Chetak both from capability and operational stand point but the question is was it designed and inducted with that in mind, because we know that as we speak Chetaks are not being replaced by Dhruvs.
negi ji,

A twin engined Chetak replacement was the earlier intent.

It would probably have worked well as such if the attentions and labors were not needlessly deflected into unproductive avenues. At some point ambition has to meet ability, no? The basic helo lost focus while the weaponised version took on a larger than life role.

They made a dog's breakfast of it.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by ramana »

Nightwatch, 14 Aug 2012
Russia-US-India: A US news outlet reported that a Russian Akula-class nuclear-powered attack submarine operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks........


Comment: .....

Akula-class submarines are quiet, by reputation. ...


What is more interesting to NightWatch is the Indian Navy is leasing an Akula-class submarine from Russia, with significant Russian assistance. If the Russians can sneak into the Gulf of Mexico - sort of doubtful - imagine what the Indians can do with a similar submarine in the South China Sea or the Bohai Gulf.
No thanks to US.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by member_23370 »

Hmmmm the second Akula is looking very tempting indeed. Hopefully the Arihant class utilizes some of the features of Akula.
titash
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by titash »

@ Chetak,
It would probably have worked well as such if the attentions and labors were not needlessly deflected into unproductive avenues. At some point ambition has to meet ability, no? The basic helo lost focus while the weaponised version took on a larger than life role.
Would you care to elaborate on the "unproductive avenues" sirjee? Are you refering to the Dhruv development itself, or other side projects that diverted manpower and funding?

Does this imply that if the Dhruv had come into service in the late 80s as opposed to the late 90s, then the IN would have ordered it by the dozens?

Regards,
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Philip »

More details about how the Russian Akula attack submarine slipped past US Navy and patrolled Gulf of Mexico for weeks undetected.More reason why India should accelerate plans to acquire at least two more Akulas,to complement the SSBN ATV Arihant class subs that are being locally built.Given our fledgeling SSBN capabilities,it will be imposible for us to build two lines of SSGNs and SSBNs simultaneously t home.Russia is supposed to have components for a few more Akulas vailable and we should take advantage of the availability of the same,esp. as the price of an Akula SSGN is just a little more than one Scorpene.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

http://freebeacon.com/silent-running/
Silent Running
Russian attack submarine sailed in Gulf of Mexico undetected for weeks, U.S. officials say

Russian Akula Submarine / AP
BY: Bill Gertz
August 14, 2012
A Russian nuclear-powered attack submarine armed with long-range cruise missiles operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks and its travel in strategic U.S. waters was only confirmed after it left the region, the Washington Free Beacon has learned.

It is only the second time since 2009 that a Russian attack submarine has patrolled so close to U.S. shores.

The stealth underwater incursion in the Gulf took place at the same time Russian strategic bombers made incursions into restricted U.S. airspace near Alaska and California in June and July, and highlights a growing military assertiveness by Moscow.

The submarine patrol also exposed what U.S. officials said were deficiencies in U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities—forces that are facing cuts under the Obama administration’s plan to reduce defense spending by $487 billion over the next 10 years.

The Navy is in charge of detecting submarines, especially those that sail near U.S. nuclear missile submarines, and uses undersea sensors and satellites to locate and track them.

The fact that the Akula was not detected in the Gulf is cause for concern, U.S. officials said.

The officials who are familiar with reports of the submarine patrol in the Gulf of Mexico said the vessel was a nuclear-powered Akula-class attack submarine, one of Russia’s quietest submarines.

A Navy spokeswoman declined to comment.

One official said the Akula operated without being detected for a month.

“The Akula was built for one reason and one reason only: To kill U.S. Navy ballistic missile submarines and their crews,” said a second U.S. official.

“It’s a very stealthy boat so it can sneak around and avoid detection and hope to get past any protective screen a boomer might have in place,” the official said, referring to the Navy nickname for strategic missile submarines.

The U.S. Navy operates a strategic nuclear submarine base at Kings Bay, Georgia. The base is homeport to eight missile-firing submarines, six of them equipped with nuclear-tipped missiles, and two armed with conventional warhead missiles.

“Sending a nuclear-propelled submarine into the Gulf of Mexico-Caribbean region is another manifestation of President Putin demonstrating that Russia is still a player on the world’s political-military stage,” said naval analyst and submarine warfare specialist Norman Polmar.

“Like the recent deployment of a task force led by a nuclear cruiser into the Caribbean, the Russian Navy provides him with a means of ‘showing the flag’ that is not possible with Russian air and ground forces,” Polmar said in an email.

The last time an Akula submarine was known to be close to U.S. shores was 2009, when two Akulas were spotted patrolling off the east coast of the United States.

Those submarine patrols raised concerns at the time about a new Russian military assertiveness toward the United States, according to the New York Times, which first reported the 2009 Akula submarine activity.

The latest submarine incursion in the Gulf further highlights the failure of the Obama administration’s “reset” policy of conciliatory actions designed to develop closer ties with Moscow.

Instead of closer ties, Russia under President Vladimir Putin, an ex-KGB intelligence officer who has said he wants to restore elements of Russia’s Soviet communist past, has adopted growing hardline policies against the United States.

Of the submarine activity, Sen. John Cornyn (R., Texas), member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said, “It’s a confounding situation arising from a lack of leadership in our dealings with Moscow. While the president is touting our supposed ‘reset’ in relations with Russia, Vladimir Putin is actively working against American interests, whether it’s in Syria or here in our own backyard.”

The Navy is facing sharp cuts in forces needed to detect and counter such submarine activity.

The Obama administration’s defense budget proposal in February cut $1.3 billion from Navy shipbuilding projects, which will result in scrapping plans to build 16 new warships through 2017.

The budget also called for cutting plans to buy 10 advanced P-8 anti-submarine warfare jets needed for submarine detection.

In June, Russian strategic nuclear bombers and support aircraft conducted a large-scale nuclear bomber exercise in the arctic. The exercise included simulated strikes on “enemy” strategic sites that defense officials say likely included notional attacks on U.S. missile defenses in Alaska.

Under the terms of the 2010 New START arms accord, such exercises require 14-day advanced notice of strategic bomber drills, and notification after the drills end. No such notification was given.

A second, alarming air incursion took place July 4 on the West Coast when a Bear H strategic bomber flew into U.S. airspace near California and was met by U.S. interceptor jets.

That incursion was said to have been a bomber incursion that has not been seen since before the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

It could not be learned whether the submarine in the Gulf of Mexico was an Akula 1 type submarine or a more advanced Akula 2.

It is also not known why the submarine conducted the operation. Theories among U.S. analysts include the notion that submarine incursion was designed to further signal Russian displeasure at U.S. and NATO plans to deploy missile defenses in Europe.

Russia’s chief of the general staff, Gen. Nikolai Makarov, said in May that Russian forces would consider preemptive attacks on U.S. and allied missile defenses in Europe, and claimed the defenses are destabilizing in a crisis.

Makarov met with Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in July. Dempsey questioned him about the Russian strategic bomber flights near U.S. territory.

The voyage of the submarine also could be part of Russian efforts to export the Akula.

Russia delivered one of its Akula-2 submarines to India in 2009. The submarine is distinctive for its large tail fin.

Brazil’s O Estado de Sao Paoli reported Aug. 2 that Russia plans to sell Venezuela up to 11 new submarines, including one Akula.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow’s military is working to set up naval replenishment facilities in Vietnam and Cuba, but denied there were plans to base naval forces in those states.

Asked if Russia planned a naval base in Cuba, Lavrov said July 28: “We are not speaking of any bases. The Russian navy ships serve exercise cruises and training in the same regions. To harbor, resupply, and enable the crew to rest are absolutely natural needs. We have spoken of such opportunities with our Cuban friends.” The comment was posted in the Russian Foreign Ministry website.

Russian warships and support vessels were sent to Venezuela in 2008 to take part in naval exercises in a show of Russian support for the leftist regime of Hugo Chavez. The ships also stopped in Cuba.

Russian Deputy Premier Dmitri Rogozin announced in February that Russia was working on a plan to build 10 new attack submarines and 10 new missile submarines through 2030, along with new aircraft carriers.

Submarine warfare specialists say the Akula remains the core of the Russian attack submarine force.

The submarines can fire both cruise missiles and torpedoes, and are equipped with the SSN-21 and SSN-27 submarine-launched cruise missiles, as well as SSN-15 anti-submarine-warfare missiles. The submarines also can lay mines.

The SSN-21 has a range of up to 1,860 miles.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Don't be fooled by this report. Something is not right... What signal are they sending? I think I know why, anyone remember the collision between the goras 5 years ago?
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

If the Russian Sub was undetected, then how come this info is public??
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Hydrophones possibly ? This is why I say there is a different world from the media. The media typically just gives you a fraction of the story.
chetak
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by chetak »

titash wrote:@ Chetak,
It would probably have worked well as such if the attentions and labors were not needlessly deflected into unproductive avenues. At some point ambition has to meet ability, no? The basic helo lost focus while the weaponised version took on a larger than life role.
Would you care to elaborate on the "unproductive avenues" sirjee? Are you refering to the Dhruv development itself, or other side projects that diverted manpower and funding?

Does this imply that if the Dhruv had come into service in the late 80s as opposed to the late 90s, then the IN would have ordered it by the dozens?



Regards,
No, I would not care to elaborate sirji :)

May be the discussion might come up in some BR meet or the other.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Austin »

shyamd wrote:Don't be fooled by this report. Something is not right... What signal are they sending? I think I know why, anyone remember the collision between the goras 5 years ago?
Can you elaborate on what you are trying to say ?
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by shyamd »

no comment.. but I also think its the defence cuts - they are broke as we all know
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by satya »

What if akula serving with IN is raising doubts among US strategists on its 'actual capability' . Open sources in dilli suggest akula in IN was promised to be noisier than ones in RIN service . He(nightwatch guy) seems to be clearing his doubt ( a bit loudly wonder why ?) as to whether Russians kept their part of bargain ( with US ) on issue of leasing akula sub to india. But now they are having doubts thanks to akula's visit to gulf of mexico , somewhere in that journey it must have done something surprising ( basing this assumption solely on nightwatch having to comment on this issue means it definitely did something .Nothing else makes sense for there are tonnes of issue that media reports & he chose to comment on this .Clearly he got his info from govt/ defense source ) ) so all these loud thinking/questioning on his part . Remember Unkil has not forgotten the '98 test surprise .
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by nachiket »

Philip wrote:The submarine patrol also exposed what U.S. officials said were deficiencies in U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities—forces that are facing cuts under the Obama administration’s plan to reduce defense spending by $487 billion over the next 10 years.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: Budget time for the USN. Obama's plan is more difficult now.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by ramana »

Folks it might be budget squabbles, but as Satya says why bring in the IN's Akula and speculate about its deployment area and similar quietness to the supposed one near the US?

We should always focus on Indian interests.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by shyamd »

By the way, this sort of thing is routine in Oirope both in Sea and Air on each others turf.

--------
They are probably afraid that Indian capability is a threat as usual - we may start getting territorial ambitions one day. But I wouldn't read too much into the Indian aspect.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Singha »

US depends too much on Orions and SSN for ASW, not ships suited to the role or embarked ASW helicopters. their surface fleet is totally oriented to carrier aviation, protecting the carriers from air threats and marines. none of their 60+ aegis ships even have a hangar for keeping a ASW heli inhouse.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by hnair »

Yep, bringing in India's Akula into article was unwarranted.
Singha wrote:none of their 60+ aegis ships even have a hangar for keeping a ASW heli inhouse.
Arliegh-Burke's third iteration on-wards has two hangars. Really well-rounded ships, Flight III will be a really sweet little ship for all round bitch-slaps. They even took out their flirtation with aluminum.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Singha »

I stand corrected. but I still love the KDX3 more for its insane armament and the Kongo designs for having a higher deckhouse and lower deck...gives a more top heavy robotech kind of look.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by AbhiJ »

Navy to get more fleet strength
The vice-admiral said ENC would be home to anti-submarine corvettes, P8i long range maritime reconnaissance aircraft, MiG 29K fighter jets and advanced jet trainers.
So P28, P8s, MiG 29Ks would be stationed in ENC.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by D Roy »

there was a briturd and frenchie boomer collision a few years ago.

I remember Goras on Secret projects forum waxing eloquent on gora sub quietening capability.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

India Floats New Naval Utility Helicopter Requirement
The world's military helicopter makers are about to get another shot at a major Indian aircraft program: a requirement for 56 light utility rotorcraft, courtesy of the Indian navy. Value: up to $1 billion.
:
:
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The navy is also finalizing an RFP for a follow-on N-MRH to acquire 75 more helicopters as part of a fresh bid. The N-MRH will progressively replace the navy's Westland Sea King Mk. 42B fleet. Apart from the NH90, contenders for the N-MRH contract include the Lockheed Martin/Sikorsky MH-60R (which was dropped from the original MRH competition since the Indian navy did not want a single-vendor foreign military sale on which the Pentagon had insisted) and Eurocopter's EC 725 Caracal. The navy is also set to solicit bids for a long-delayed upgrade of its Sea King fleet, with original manufacturer AgustaWestland expected to compete against Israel Aerospace Industries' Lahav Div. In addition, the navy will shortly begin an effort to upgrade its fleet of Ka-28 Helix ASW helicopters.
:
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

D Roy wrote:there was a briturd and frenchie boomer collision a few years ago.

I remember Goras on Secret projects forum waxing eloquent on gora sub quietening capability.
Hey it was not a collision. It was just mutual groping by the blind subs in order to find each other. As they were unable to see each other due to the high levels of quietening.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by kit »

Pratyush wrote:
D Roy wrote:there was a briturd and frenchie boomer collision a few years ago.

I remember Goras on Secret projects forum waxing eloquent on gora sub quietening capability.
Hey it was not a collision. It was just mutual groping by the blind subs in order to find each other. As they were unable to see each other due to the high levels of quietening.
thats what happens when you dont expect anything and wander around using your topo map and your active sonar off .of course the passive sensors wont pick any thing because of #active# cancellation ..cough .. er quitening
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by negi »

Huh best part was when HMS astute ran aground of Isle of Sky (I suspect the Kaptan saab was high on Talisker). :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by D Roy »

Hey it was not a collision. It was just mutual groping by the blind subs in order to find each other. As they were unable to see each other due to the high levels of quietening.
no friend . they did bump into each other and had to return to home port.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/world ... arine.html
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by AbhiJ »

Image
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

D Roy wrote:
no friend . they did bump into each other and had to return to home port.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/world ... arine.html
I was being tongue and cheek onlee............ :(( :((
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by SaiK »

I sincerely wish IN note these happenings:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012 ... hes-mv-22s
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by kit »

Ospreys are high maintanence ., they probably will turn into white elephants eating into other budgets.IN probably wont go for it., i see them as the most practical of the 3 services.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by John »

OPV are likely being purchased by Nigeria? Nigerian Navy operates mainly consists of used vessels from Royal Navy and USN, they do need to start replacing them as they have started nearing their end of life. The design could make a decent missile corvette, fit in 8 Urans'/Harpoon/etc along with 16 Barak SAM+3D Car. Probably can sell them for $150 mill each which is less than most other vessels in the market (F22P, Meko,GoWind etc).
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

Good going Pipavav! this will probably force other private players with a "me too" moment of thinking in their boardrooms with regards to defence exports.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Singha »

has the NH60 chalked up a good track record? periodically one reads of problems with this machine. has a massive order book.

the two most heavyweight ASW navies in the world - USN and JMSDF both use the MH-60, and it as a long service history in older models.
sounds like a decent bet if cost and other factors are ok.

the EC725 sounds like a good plane on paper. its order book however is very thin even incl the transport version ... brazil seems to be the ONLY naval user so far. not a good prospect if we consider cost of spares and services long term.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Philip »

Remember my quip aeons ago that the best replacement for the MIG-21s was the...... (upgraded) Mig-21?! Well,Russia certainly seems to think so with this report where the best replacement for a Kilo is another (upgraded) Kilo!
Something we can examine for a cost effective,interim solution to replacing older Kilos and depleting strength of our diesel subs which need to be pensioned off.This way it will give us some more time to examine and finalise the configuration of the second line of Diesel/AIP subs.

http://en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120817/175263174.html

Russia to Lay Down New Diesel Sub for Black Sea Fleet
ST. PETERSBURG, August 17 (RIA Novosti)
Tags: Varshavyanka submarine, Admiralty Shipyards

Related News

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Russia to Deploy 7 Subs in Black Sea by 2017
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Troubled Russian sub starts sea trials after repairs

The Admiralty Shipyard in St. Petersburg will lay down on Friday a new Varshavyanka class diesel-electric submarine for Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, the company said.

Stary Oskol will be the third in a series of six Varshavyanka class submarines which are expected to join the fleet by 2016. The first sub, the Novorossiisk, was laid down in August 2010, followed by Rostov-on-Don in November 2011.

The Varshavyanka class is an improved version of the Kilo class submarines, featuring advanced “stealth” technology, extended combat range and ability to strike land, surface and underwater targets.

These submarines are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.

The vessels, crewed by 52 submariners, have an underwater speed of 20 knots, a cruising range of 400 miles (electric propulsion) with the ability to patrol for 45 days. They are armed with 18 torpedoes and eight surface-to-air missiles.

There is only one submarine, the Alrosa, a Kilo class vessel, currently in service with the Black Sea Fleet. The Alrosa joined the Russian Navy in 1990.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Philip »

AWST on the IN's naval LUH/ASW requirement.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 486267.xml
India Floats New Naval Utility Helicopter Requirement
By Asia-Pacific Staff
Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology
August 20, 2012

Asia-Pacific Staff New Delhi

The world's military helicopter makers are about to get another shot at a major Indian aircraft program: a requirement for 56 light utility rotorcraft, courtesy of the Indian navy. Value: up to $1 billion.

The naval utility helicopter (NUH) competition seeks to replace aging, license-built Alouette III/Chetak helicopters. The new contest also signals an amalgamation of roles, since the anti-submarine-warfare (ASW) and light-attack missions have so far been tasked to the heavier Westland Sea King fleet, while the Chetaks are assigned logistics and search-and-rescue (SAR) activities.

The navy's request for proposals (RFP) has been sent to all major rotorcraft vendors, including Bell Helicopter Textron, EADS's Eurocopter, Finmeccanica's AgustaWestland, Russian Helicopters and Sikorsky. The navy requires vendors to field twin-engine helicopters that can operate in adverse weather day/night conditions for SAR and conduct casualty evacuation and logistics and communication duties with underslung cargo. Other tasks include limited electronic-intelligence gathering, ASW with a light torpedo or depth charge, dynamic response during aid to civil authorities, and anti-piracy missions with small arms. The navy wants to operate the rotorcraft from small-deck frigates and offshore patrol vehicles, as well as from aircraft carriers.

A procurement manager with the Indian navy indicates that the NUH has to meld several roles into one modern new platform, after the indigenous naval ALH Dhruv failed to deliver a light, multirole shipborne platform with an ASW capability. Indeed, with the navy's growing anti-piracy responsibilities in the Indian Ocean region, the NUH is the latest in a raft of acquisitions pointed at asymmetric engagement at sea.

Contenders include Eurocopter's AS565 Panther, Sikorsky's S-76B, and a maritime version of AgustaWestland's AW109 Koala. Bell and Russian Helicopters could also field bids. The navy stipulates that it wants a wheeled helicopter with an all-up weight that does not exceed 4.5 metric tons, powered by twin turboshaft engines with an electronic engine-control mechanism. The service wants the NUH, planned for induction in 2016, to be capable of deploying at least one lightweight ASW torpedo or two depth charges, with the ability to mount 12.7-mm machine guns or rocket launchers on either side.

Eurocopter—which is still awaiting a decision on the long-delayed Indian army and air force's 197-aircraft reconnaissance and surveillance helicopter (RSH) contest in which its AS550 C3 Fennec is vying with the Kamov Ka-226T Sergei—will be watching the navy competition closely. After a string of disappointments in the Indian market, EADS will be looking to win anything new that comes up.

This has been a busy time for rotorcraft contracting within the Indian navy. The service is expected to choose a winner soon in the $1 billion competition for 16 multirole helicopters (MRHs). The finalists are NHIndustries' NH90 and the S-70B. The thorny competition has sparked multiple complaints to the Indian defense ministry from NHIndustries, although the government has rejected all claims of unfair play.

The navy is also finalizing an RFP for a follow-on N-MRH to acquire 75 more helicopters as part of a fresh bid. The N-MRH will progressively replace the navy's Westland Sea King Mk. 42B fleet. Apart from the NH90, contenders for the N-MRH contract include the Lockheed Martin/Sikorsky MH-60R (which was dropped from the original MRH competition since the Indian navy did not want a single-vendor foreign military sale on which the Pentagon had insisted) and Eurocopter's EC 725 Caracal. The navy is also set to solicit bids for a long-delayed upgrade of its Sea King fleet, with original manufacturer AgustaWestland expected to compete against Israel Aerospace Industries' Lahav Div. In addition, the navy will shortly begin an effort to upgrade its fleet of Ka-28 Helix ASW helicopters.

Other major Indian rotorcraft developments include a recent decision by the air force and border security force to purchase 71 more Mi-17 V5 medium utility helos from Russia; 80 were acquired last year. The government is also expected to soon announce the winners of a two-part air force contest for 22 attack and 12 heavy-lift helicopters. While Boeing expects to win the first element with its AH-64D Block III Longbow, the latter is still a close call between the CH-47 Chinook and Mi-26T2 Halo.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Austin »

So it seems the IN is interested in yet another imported chopper for LUH after rejecting ALH.

Some time i wonder if IN knew they had need for LUH and ALH was not appropriate why didnt they contract HAL to build one instead of spending $1 billion on something they can do it in half the price.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Philip »

The problem is the long gestation period fro desi systems.With the ALH experience behind them,would the IN want to risk another fiasco? Moreover,the situ today is that the Chetaks/Allouettes are rather long in the tooth and need replacing fast.Therefore ,obtaining an available product from abroad is the only route.

However,I agree Austin that we have a very short-sighted policy when it comes to acquisitions with little or no long term planning.With the same requirement for a light utility helo for the IA going on right now,between the Kamov and Fennec,why on earth can't the services/MOD pool their requirements and see if a common platform/system which can be suitably modified for each service ,as was intended with the ALH ,can be obtained for both? In the massive helo requirements for the three services,involving several hundreds for all classes,why can't their be a policy of choosing a common platform for the light,med. and heavy requirement,except where considerable speciality is required and the options are very few.At least now,the MOD/Services should initiate future programmes for all classes of helos to be designed and built indigenously with the best foreign help,or as partners with them as is the case with the FGFA,MTA,etc. .Our own domestic requirements and slower production rates will not stand in the way of competition with foreign manufacturers.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by AbhiJ »

John wrote:OPV are likely being purchased by Nigeria? Nigerian Navy operates mainly consists of used vessels from Royal Navy and USN, they do need to start replacing them as they have started nearing their end of life. The design could make a decent missile corvette, fit in 8 Urans'/Harpoon/etc along with 16 Barak SAM+3D Car. Probably can sell them for $150 mill each which is less than most other vessels in the market (F22P, Meko,GoWind etc).
Funny thing is the Nigerians think:

The Saryu Class is a Reverse Engineered Russian Tifr Frigate!

John, Isn't GSL constructing 4 Saryu Class for the IN? When are they coming?
Singha
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by Singha »

the same link offers the Makassar class small LPD. seems like a cost effective option if all we want is police and protect some small islands in the IOR and not have to invade a really hostile mainland coast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makassar_c ... tform_dock

ofcourse nowhere in the size and capability of the mistral class.
vasu raya
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

A way out is to barter ALH for LUH, thisapproach to imports should be treated on par with defence offsets program, we tried with Russia but didn't pan out. Wasn't Bell responsible for ALH's export debacle in Chile, so even a quid pro quo with ALH making headway into these markets without Bell playing spoilsport, is also an acceptable sop. Bell cannot have it both ways and Navy/MOD should take into account the price reduction such a offsets approach gives vs. the 2nd runner.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Post by aniket »

Now that the P8's have started testing and will start arriving soon, what will happen of the TU-142's in service ?
If this question has already been answered can someone point me to answer.TIA
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