Indian Roads Thread

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Aug 2012 08:11

TF, I have experienced people overtaking me on the left, EVEN as I am moving to the left with my indicator on. The guy would cross over into the shoulder/dirt road on the left and swerve back to the tar road after crossing me. This happened more than once.

Anyways, I want to draw attention to another problem that plagues our roads. Vehicles parked in the road itself due to breakdowns or whatever. Very few of them mark this out with stones and tree branches a few feet in the front. Most just leave it as is. If you are behind another vehicle and don't have a clear view of the parked truck and the vehicle before you swerves in the last minute, you will be in danger, if there is another vehicle on your side (which is where you have to swerve to avoid the truck).

I suspect that is what happened here..or he was just plain sleeping on the wheel.

http://www.dailythanthi.com/article.asp ... =8/24/2012 (TAMIL)
9 people dead from govt bus hitting parked truck. One small baby had head and body separated.

Whose responsibility it is to move this?

niran · Post by **niran** » 24 Aug 2012 15:49

Gus wrote: Anyways, I want to draw attention to another problem that plagues our roads. Vehicles parked in the road itself due to breakdowns or whatever. Very few of them mark this out with stones and tree branches a few feet in the front. Most just leave it as is. If you are behind another vehicle and don't have a clear view of the parked truck and the vehicle before you swerves in the last minute, you will be in danger, if there is another vehicle on your side (which is where you have to swerve to avoid the truck).

I suspect that is what happened here..or he was just plain sleeping on the wheel.

Whose responsibility it is to move this?

there is a thing known as distance between the vehicles
which the vehicle following must maintain at all times to allow for urgent braking
swerving etc.
the rule book says
at 40 kmph the distance should be 30 meters
at 60 kmph the distance should be 70 meters
at 80 kmph the distance should be 90 meters

do you Sire, or any of the so called khan returned drivers follow it ?
if you do not then why blame others hain ji?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 24 Aug 2012 17:35

Oh.. another signalling technique introduced by truckers and long distance buses. The right indicator (in case of buses, such indicators would be placed high above every window of the bus) being flashed to indicate that The vehicle behind CAN over take the bus!!!. Any person who knows some genuine driving instructions will take this to mean that the bus plans to turn to the right and would slow down (or cancel over taking plans).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Aug 2012 17:39

> at 80 kmph the distance should be 90 meters

thats not right. for every 10mph -> 1 car length => 50 MPH => 5 x 4 = 20 mts onlee.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 Aug 2012 18:45

Singha,

Niran is closer. When velocity doubles braking distance quadruples. It is not a linear relation.

From 40 kmph to 80 kmph should actually be 30 meter to 120 meter.

In India with drum brakes , I would say it should be more to avoid overheating equipment.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Aug 2012 18:58

Theo_Fidel wrote:Singha,

Niran is closer. When velocity doubles braking distance quadruples. It is not a linear relation.

From 40 kmph to 80 kmph should actually be 30 meter to 120 meter.

In India with drum brakes , I would say it should be more to avoid overheating equipment.

Except Premier Padmini, Tata Ace, Ambassodor, I think 95% of Indian cars have front disks and rear drums- not all drums. 2% have all 4 disks.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 Aug 2012 19:12

I was referring more to things like the government bus based on picture above.

Gus,

I have seen such mad cap maneuvers too. 2 years ago on 100 foot road near Vadapalani. one guy tried that with me and I guided him into a 1 foot high sidewalk at 60 kmph. He never saw it and his Alto looked completely totaled. I could not believe he was so focused and intent on 'putting me down'. Massa maneuvers don't work in desh. I have never done it again as he had 2 of his kids, one an infant in front seat no less in his car. Fkr gets out and tries to yell at me.....

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Aug 2012 19:22

niran wrote: do you Sire, or any of the so called khan returned drivers follow it ?
if you do not then why blame others hain ji?

what are you on about. this is not about me or "khan returned drivers".

The bus driver who killed 9 people is not a "khan returned driver".

Throw the rule book...that will fix problems.

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Aug 2012 19:42

Theo_Fidel wrote:Singha,

Niran is closer. When velocity doubles braking distance quadruples. It is not a linear relation.

From 40 kmph to 80 kmph should actually be 30 meter to 120 meter.

In India with drum brakes , I would say it should be more to avoid overheating equipment.

It is not the breaking distance Singha is talking about. It is the distance between the cars. Both the cars have same about breaking distance at the same speed, right? Methinks it is to account for your reaction time that they recommend increased distance at higher speeds.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Aug 2012 19:47

Theo- as far as trucks go, I saw programme in Discovery where even the huge Massa MAN trucks have Air powered Drum Brakes, even desi trucks have Air powered drum brakes.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Aug 2012 22:38

inner-city roads should not have above the road pole and cable wires like this:

I can understand for other areas it is okay.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Aug 2012 07:29

The key projects will include Phase II of the Chennai Outer Ring Road and the Chennai-Bangalore Expressway, the upgrade of airports in Chennai, Bangalore and Sriperumbudur and ports in Chennai and Ennore, a high-speed rail between Chennai and Bangalore and the Avadi rail link.

BTW, I am trying to read hard what type of look is MMS is giving this pic
http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dyna ... 90159f.jpg

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true

Many big Japanese names such as NYK Logistics, Sumitomo Corporation, Mitsui, Honda, Toyota, Canon, Komatsu, Sharp, NTT and Santen have been identified and their inputs will form a critical part of the terms of reference of the master plan, whose lead agency is likely to be announced by the time the Prime Ministers meet later this year

my only hope is Japan does not entertain corruption.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Aug 2012 07:52

we should explore the idea of not just japanese funds but korean funds as well. make it a triangular indo-japanese-korean venture if possible.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 27 Aug 2012 20:02

The first thing that strikes a visitor to Tehran is the wide smooth highway on which one can easily hit over 150 kms per hour.

From
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/ira ... 96141.html

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Aug 2012 20:38

nakul wrote:
The first thing that strikes a visitor to Tehran is the wide smooth highway on which one can easily hit over 150 kms per hour.

From
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/ira ... 96141.html

Well you have country 50% India size with population of TN or 1/3rd UP population, such luxuries can be there.

These elites oppose any population control in India, the first job of UPA-1 cheered by India was removing 2 child restriction saying population control should not be coersive and then complain about no space.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 27 Aug 2012 20:41

Aditya_V wrote: These elites oppose any population control in India, the first job of UPA-1 cheered by India was removing 2 child restriction saying population control should not be coersive and then complain about no space.

OT here

This is what prevents us from becoming a Muslim majority country. Put restrictions here and within no time the Islamic population will cross the 50% mark since birth control is against the tenets of Islam

/OT

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Aug 2012 06:23

That is the problem of any laws that is religion specific.. let it be any topic, but very much applicable here.. can't treat temple or mosque or church on the roadside for expansions, differently.

separate religion and governance.. we will prosper. bring the army, and do a little chippanda model.. yes, under the tenants of democracy - by issuing orders, and decent reasonable compensations.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 29 Aug 2012 13:39

Another accident today. Bus hits another parked bus. Pushes the parked bus on people sitting outside the bus, killing 5. Both drivers not 'khan returned'.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Sep 2012 19:17

Take this pic, and tell what road infrastructure we lack.
Hint:
1. count the number of different automobiles, and get their density/distribution.
2. how to set rules for proper lane adherence
3. infrastructure for stop and go vehicles
4. infra for pedestrian
5. infra for smaller vehicles

3,4,5 contribute to road usage contention.

well.. you too thought so? then why did you stop thinking to spread awareness for creating a demand to establish better setup?

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 02 Sep 2012 19:30

Ahmedabad has implemented a sleek bus solution to address some of these issues.

A promotional film on Ahmedabad's Janmarg BRTS

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Sep 2012 21:23

^^^^^
Saik,

I'll put something in front of you. I did a quick head count. I suspect the following.

- Those two buses are transporting more folks than ALL the other vehicles on the road combined!
- 3%-5% of the folks on that road are in cars. Note how much space they take up.
- Number of pedestrians is essentially zero.

I have said this before and have been accused of being everything from a commie to a failed govt planner, etc

With 1.2 Billion folks on 2% of world land area, sooner or later cars will need to be banned from much of our cities. In order for cars to enter everywhere, our cities would have to increase to 5-10 times present size and dedicate 60% of land for roads. Meaning living space will become even more expensive and unavailable.

I read a report from a noted transport planner that those Chinese cities you see with wide boulevards would become transport hell if everyone in those apartments bought a car. He did a quick count in several neighborhoods and found that just 20% occupancy would mean complete grid lock and cars occupying every sqft of parking space.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Sep 2012 03:05

nakul wrote:Ahmedabad has implemented a sleek bus solution to address some of these issues.

A promotional film on Ahmedabad's Janmarg BRTS

[youtube]9QzHDVSByck[youtube]

nice, but what is the usage and coverage? may be it is a good start, that other states can follow.

btw, I hate all these commercials with brit cockney/amitab bacchan accent.. i don't mind shudh desi accent.

./personal OT.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Sep 2012 05:04

some more data for you all:

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Sep 2012 01:44

Google Enhances Google Maps in India with Navigation, Live Traffic Updates
http://www.itnewsonline.com/showstory.p ... 6&contid=1

Google has announced the availability of two new features for Google Maps in India: turn-by-turn voice-guided driving directions through Google Maps Navigation (Beta) and live traffic information for several major cities.
Google Maps Navigation is an Internet-connected GPS navigation system that provides turn-by-turn voice-guided driving directions as a free feature of Google Maps for mobile on smartphones running Android version 2.2 or later. As a part of the Google Maps for mobile application, Google Maps Navigation automatically accesses the latest information about roads and points of interest from Google’s online mapping services without the need for any manual data updatesIn addition to Google Maps Navigation, which is accessible to Android users anywhere in India, live traffic information is now available on Google Maps in India for major roads in the prominent cities of Bengaluru, Mumbai, New Delhi, Chennai, Pune and Hyderabad. Users can check current traffic conditions by enabling the "Traffic" layer on maps.google.co.in (for desktop browsers) or in Google Maps for mobile (on their smartphones). Desktop users of Google Maps can even review "typical" traffic conditions on a given road at specific days and times.On every platform, traffic information is displayed in a simple and readable color scheme: red for significant congestion, yellow for minor slow-downs, and green for free-flowing traffic. Google Maps Navigation also takes traffic data into account when calculating directions, so users will automatically be routed around areas of major congestion if a faster alternative route is available nearby

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Sep 2012 01:51

How can Google indicate Traffic on the roads in India? I thought in the US they have road sensors from which they get traffic flow info. I do not think such a thing exists on Indian roads.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Sep 2012 07:34

elementary mr. watson!

age old taknik! <jk
human sensors produce more clear and present picture..
millions of shop owners on the road to update data.
heavy, medium or low is that they have to say.
/jk>
but then think about it.. all android devices are gps based.
it is simple math after that. -> number of devices in a location moving...

in the sense, third party must support data for non-android devices.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 06 Sep 2012 11:17

saip wrote:How can Google indicate Traffic on the roads in India? I thought in the US they have road sensors from which they get traffic flow info. I do not think such a thing exists on Indian roads.

In Bengaluru, the Traffic Police have got an account in Facebook *. And they regularly provide updates on Facebook. There is also provision to register yourself for SMS alerts. The Control room folks use the wireless to get the updates. Every traffic sub-division would give an update.

* Though many folks appreciate the gesture of the Traffic Police, every update would also havea few disparaging comments from some arm-chair general. In many cases the comment would be to show frusturation against some thing NOT working which is totally outside the perview of the Traffic police.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 06 Sep 2012 18:28

A lot of us have been complaining about drivers using hi beams while driving at night. I thought the complains were warranetd until I was faced with a similar situation.

The sun had set and there were no street lights. I was moving at ~40 kmph. The only way I could see what was ahead was by using hi beams. The low beam worked only for 10-20 m which is too less to stop safely. The only way low beam driving was possible if the vehicle did not exceed 20 kmph. I am not sure whether everyone has faced such a situation before but that made me realise those who drive on such roads with hi beams, have a very good reason to do so.

Disclaimer: This was only in the absence of street lights. I use lo beam when street lighting is available.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Sep 2012 19:22

In my recent trip to India (a month ago) I consciously looked out for few things...

Cows on the road - They did not have any fear and slept in the middle of the road in spite of the horrendous traffic around them. Perhaps they got immune to the noise around them and did not get scared when a 16 wheeler passes by their feet with a couple of inches margin. And I did not see a single cow hurt/limping (though I saw a dog sleeping on the road near Yamunotri of all the places and a small auto went by edges of its feet and luckily she is fine even though she cried for few minutes). Perhaps this explains the heavy honking habit (in addition to pedestrians on the roads),

High beams - In the absence of properly marked lanes and lack of double lanes this is a old way of indicating the opposite traffic and asking for way to over take. I noticed that the drivers behaving better on the 4-6 lane highways. So when the infrastructure reaches the first world quality levels, the driving habits too will catchup.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Sep 2012 23:14

RamaY wrote:(though I saw a dog sleeping on the road near Yamunotri of all the places and a small auto went by edges of its feet and luckily she is fine even though she cried for few minutes). Perhaps this explains the heavy honking habit (in addition to pedestrians on the roads),

so, honk the dog away applies to all?

So when the infrastructure reaches the first world quality levels, the driving habits too will catchup.

indeed.. this is the reason for many of my suggestions in many threads. by rule, we shall not achieve anything. by policy and structure, we shall be the super power, and not great power.

we need to take decision by policy and vote for policies. We need to change our structure and infrastructure to suit us and not encourage firang product or services sales. For all we know, we require 10 lanes either way in and around large cities, and all existing roads doubled up immediately., redo town planning, move people to better places, etc.

need another nehruvian change for roads.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 Sep 2012 15:56

Cows on road rather highways, especially in the north. I did find a few on roads in Kerala but they seem scared of vehicles and might cause accidents as they dart out or in due to fear of speeding vehicles. But not the Haryana/UP/Rajasthan cows. Driver-ji from TN who spoke Hindi very well, said the cows/goats etc seek the warmth of the tarmac and when it rains the cleaner surfaces of the roads.

We did almost hit one cow which darted in from the median on the Agra-Jaipur highway.

Could not take the new expressway to Agra, as driver ji said from Delhi airport side it is no better in terms of time. So he took us on Haryana-UP route via Gurgaon. The roads around the happening place was like a gaon and cows and other unruly elements on the roads reminded me of where I was, still in India.

With all the new development, all I see is more chaos than a few decades back. What we call development in India should be called "Chaotic Index" and for that measure we are on for superpower status onlee. No one can match us and none others from outside can survive without long term climatic training to adapt to local chaos.

Driver-jis zindabad ! The best job option is to become driver-ji in India if all else fails or for retirement. I need to improve my skills there.

Very good job insurance till struck my Yama one day on the same roads.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Sep 2012 04:15

It is chaotic with a reason.. and by plan, choice and design. We like it that way.. unfortunately.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 08 Sep 2012 05:21

Actually, it is not by design or else why would we still build isolated instances of excellence even in the roads sector, like Mumbai-Pune expressway or the new Taj expressway. It is chaotic due to our indifference and our elites come up with crazy theories to fill up whole threads to explain it all away. I find it amusing and irritating at best, when we can do much better with the same amount of resources spent in maintaining our chaotic ways. We are an indifferent people largely and it reflects in the chaos we create around us. All fancy theories on efficient queuing and utilization of minimal resources are just that, pure hot air we see in many discussions. There can be no Indian unique standards. Some things are universal, and in the case of roads too that apply. Cows and other animals should not be on roads, period. But what do I know. We define India/Indic a certain way and try to fit in the modern (rather today's needs) in that hole with disastrous results. It works barely, so we continue marching without fixing the issues.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 08 Sep 2012 05:34

Bade wrote:Actually, it is not by design or else why would we still build isolated instances of excellence even in the roads sector, like Mumbai-Pune expressway or the new Taj expressway. It is chaotic due to our indifference and our elites come up with crazy theories to fill up whole threads to explain it all away. I find it amusing and irritating at best, when we can do much better with the same amount of resources spent in maintaining our chaotic ways. We are an indifferent people largely and it reflects in the chaos we create around us. All fancy theories on efficient queuing and utilization of minimal resources are just that, pure hot air we see in many discussions. There can be no Indian unique standards. Some things are universal, and in the case of roads too that apply. Cows and other animals should not be on roads, period. But what do I know. We define India/Indic a certain way and try to fit in the modern (rather today's needs) in that hole with disastrous results. It works barely, so we continue marching without fixing the issues.

1 word - money. Instead of 4 cr per km for a GQ road, pay 50 cr at today's prices and you are good to go.

You want a 10 lane smooth highway with only cars allowed just so that you can buzz through at 100 kmhr, sure. Have it completely above 5 m overground Build it as a bridge over all the 10000 kms you want. Pay FULL price to the cost of the land. Dont trample on the passage rights of the villagers, passage rights of cow herders to their grazing grounds. Build it as a bridge over every minor rivulet and monsoon only streams.

Oh, what do I hear, its not cost effective and so you want to trample on those villagers rights without paying them - NOT going to happen.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 08 Sep 2012 05:46

Why we can live with bullock carts onlee, no ? Why have cars anyway then, what use is it ?

We are trying to cram in technologies and ways of living from multiple centuries into the same space-time. It simply will not work over time. People who think otherwise are just day dreaming.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 08 Sep 2012 05:56

Be ready to PAY for the "21st century" in 21st century prices. We all want to get to 21st century at 19th century prices, with the difference being paid by others, in this case the villagers.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 08 Sep 2012 06:05

I think we are mixing things up. GQ was not a 21st century road by design, but it was not 19th century one either. It was not meant for cows and people to flock around and go about the usual way. If the design requirements were that, why build GQ in the first place. The usual two lane potholed roads were also there like the old GT road. Letting cows have a sauna or siesta in the middle of the GQ beats its very purpose. It has nothing to do with costs. By misusing it or allowing for it is misuse, is the biggest waste of national resources put into building it in the first place.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Sep 2012 06:57

the country can't keep the villagers separate while thinking about the rich cities. the cost has to born by the inter-connecting cities. forget the interstate types, why not just increase road space by doubling all existing roads? smash all the buildings on the road sides, and allocate them to newer areas of the cities with much better facilities.. water and electricity is another blocker. I can only see a f-ed up situation in the future, if we continue this quota based analysis of our needs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Sep 2012 08:38

where it has been built properly like BLR->madurai or BLR->chennai or BLR->tumkur->hubli the GQs are good and much cheaper than expways at maybe 30% the cost.
however pockets of unruly elements exists here and there....since no fencing is done except in the interiors of cities where the GQ passes through...

they have done a very good job in tumkur for example and you sweep through it in a few mins with full fencing and service roads with limited exits.
in areas like Hosur that is a fail due to a lot of shops and industries right atop the road.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Sep 2012 08:54

Modern testing track for issuing driving licence

In a bid to enhance the test for competence before granting driving licences to applicants, the State transport department is constructing a testing track in the Red Hills Regional Transport Office (RTO). In the coming days, electronic sensors, which will detect any mistakes by applicants during the test, will be embedded in it.

According to sources, there will be one testing track for bikes and one for cars. “This will be more practical and situation-based. This track will have facilities to check the applicant’s competence in handling real-life situations,” said a source.

For bikes, the applicants will be asked to ride in an ‘eight’ formation. This is mainly to test the balancing capacity. The applicant will also be asked to ride on a raised gradient level. “The main aim of this test is to check the ability to ride on a narrow patch of road without losing balance,” said the source.

The car drivers will be tested on going up and down a slope and how they control the vehicle with the help of the clutch. They will also be tested on three-pin and five-pin bends. “They will be allowed to reverse three or five times and they should make a U-turn. They will also be tested on how to give way for oncoming vehicles while ascending a hill without the vehicle having to go backwards” said the source.

The track is being set up at a cost of nearly Rs.1.29 crore. “As of now, the tests are conducted on the roads and sometimes, cause inconvenience to the public. This can be avoided. Also, the results will be transparent” he added.

Though there is a similar track in Anna Nagar, a testing facility for all situations is not available due to the lack of space. “Here, the track will be of the size 60x75 meters. It is still under construction and is expected to be completed soon,” said the source.