Indian Roads Thread

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Sep 2012 01:20

^we have amazing capability and maturity to pass even a stringent test and beat the heck out of computers and sensors.. back on the regular roads, we would just shed those values in trashcan in a jiffy.

Infrastructure and facilities should not irritate normal users, and usage of roads should be so designed to enable better road usage, respecting every life on it. At large, cares for nothing when push comes to shove, flaunt all rules.. drive mad by showing the middle finger to cops and lights.

Driving on roads should be based on needs, respect for life, safe and beneficial to the city/nation. Our roads alone contribute to global warming by the stopping and running vehicle emissions. Some times, even smoking is injurious to health warning looks so heavenly to read.

from roads to city planning, and distribution of wealth, lies the greatest fraudulent setup on the face of the planet. /sorry.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 10 Sep 2012 04:27

Anyone know how the road from Ernakulam to Munnar is. Is it self motorable or does one need the ultra specialist driver type with cutting cuss words....

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Sep 2012 05:21

I just did Munnar last week of August in one day. It is in good condition overall with rubberized surface, though it is not very wide. Very near to small towns on the way it is congested depending on the time of the day.

We did not get to see much with our time constraint and since we left late in the morning from Kochi. The drive was enjoyable and was not planning on doing anything on foot considering the rains and that my mom came along for the ride. It was definitely a better option than sitting idle at home watching the rains batter the Vembanad lake.

Got some fresh Kannan devan tea from there. It is still raining in Kerala.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Sep 2012 05:33

I do not know if it was the rains, but I saw more disciplined drivers this time in Kerala. None of the usual drunken bullet riders.

Is it the stricter fines and confiscation of vehicles if caught or just the weather making it difficult to stride around as if these are private roads.

Saw lots of police bandobast too everywhere, with daily threats of some kind. Still KL is not the place what one makes out to be on the forum. Peace, prosperity and progress of the Indic kind everywhere.

Also drove on NH-47 from Trichur to Kochi, with a stop onway to the hills to visit relatives. Toll was Rs 85/- for cars. Not a bad road, but it has traffic lights at intersections and a few flyovers too at other junctions. The road feels better than the Kochi/Aroor to Cherthala stretch of NH-17. I did not try the stretch to TVM this time.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Sep 2012 05:39

what!! KL roads are peaceful? I thought the whole KL is like sholavaram of the bizarre kind.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Sep 2012 05:46

It apparently felt so, was on the road every day I was there. Sea change in less than a year, unless all of this is only transient Maya/Leela.

The peace I refer to is on inter city roads. Towns and cities are too congested with people and traffic to feel safe to the occasional tourist. You will need an experienced driver to assist you.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Sep 2012 05:49

must be your dream or you did not check there was some strike or something like that? anyway happy to note you are safe!

..

or.. Onam ?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 10 Sep 2012 07:45

Thanx Bade,

One of my family has a tourist resort there and wanted to drive up to see him. So it is do-able for a careful motorist.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 10 Sep 2012 10:27

Bade wrote:I do not know if it was the rains, but I saw more disciplined drivers this time in Kerala. None of the usual drunken bullet riders. Is it the stricter fines and confiscation of vehicles if caught or just the weather making it difficult to stride around as if these are private roads.

It should be the stricter fines and the bigger problem of having to sit in the police station waiting for two tax paying sureties to turn up, to get you on bail

. Pretty much every police mobile and highway police squads are scrutinised daily on their performance on traffic law enforcement (especially drunken driving). That is why you see very many police vehicles on the streets.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Sep 2012 14:16

Theo_Fidel wrote:Anyone know how the road from Ernakulam to Munnar is. Is it self motorable or does one need the ultra specialist driver type with cutting cuss words....

Theo-> based on my personal experience, I have found that Self driving is much safer than specialist drivers in India who seem a take a lot more risks.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 10 Sep 2012 14:54

Theo_Fidel wrote:Anyone know how the road from Ernakulam to Munnar is. Is it self motorable or does one need the ultra specialist driver type with cutting cuss words....

It is a nice drive. If you like driving a snaky hill highway, you would be right at home.

The road right upto the hills at Neriamangalam is pretty good. The ghat road from there to Irumpupalam is narrow, but well paved. Rest of the road is wide enough.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 10 Sep 2012 15:18

Aditya_V wrote:Theo-> based on my personal experience, I have found that Self driving is much safer than specialist drivers in India who seem a take a lot more risks.

I second that. Unless you are not in a shape to drive, it is better you drive because you will be driving slow and safe than some driver who drives "street smart" which is really risky driving.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Sep 2012 19:14

ANd most tourist cars run 65K KM a year and dont do the Brake Disk Pad and Tyre changes as required.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2012 19:31

and its better to avoid driving at night, even on 4 lane NHAI divided roads imo. sometimes trucks and flatbeds with long dark steel rods overhanging a long way out tend to be parked carelessly or creep back onto the road....yahoos on bikes sneak across the median and emerge suddenly from the bushes into the fast lane ..... bikes with headlights off creep around in the woodwork....its hard to even safely recommend 70kmph at night in dry weather or 50 in wet weather. sometimes farmers round up wayward animals and drive them home at night.

all rules vanish the moment night falls and the cops in wayside towns melt away too...the lack of powerful streetlights in such towns makes it tough.

only TBHP diehards are permitted to getup and start driving at 2am to get a few hours lead on the opposition

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Sep 2012 20:20

I always try to get a 40+ year old driver so rash driving it out of question. I have had good experience so far with drivers in KL. Just have to pay them better. I will not trust myself on Indian roads, requires a lot more patience than massa driving. Besides on short visits I will be half-asleep the first week. Our hired driver for golden triangle tour from Panicker Travels in Dilli was a sharp guy too and safe. He is the best I have had so far.

My cousin who works in Saud Barbaria, drives after a few days of landing in India. He too finds the left hand drive to righ hand drive switch quite unsettling, but he has better skills than me on Indian roads.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Sep 2012 20:27

It is not the skills etc.. it is the accident, that happens anywhere on the planet. some infrastructure is built for safety like well devised median, good shoulder space, rattling rumble strips when running into a shoulder, or similar ones on between the lanes could also help in lane discipline as normally drivers would not like to rattle their tires. so, even if the drivers sleep for fraction of second and get driven away, there is something to wake the whole party up.

On maasan interstates, I am long off driving long-distance at night or even short distance. Especially the trailing red lights of massive trucks puts me to sleep.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2012 21:37

there is a stretch of interstate in florida between maimi to orlando with exits around 20-25 mile gaps, mostly straight, very empty....scary to think of driving there at night.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Sep 2012 22:15

Back to whining about Indian roads. On Agra-Jaipur stretch things were relatively empty other than cows and a few colourful sari clad wimmens doing the chicken crossing. Each time they would smile with all battiswa after making a successful crossing and glance back at you. It was not funny, but they find it amusing to play with their own lives. Such beauties, but so lax about their own well being. We even had a mom or grandma cross over right in front of us with a kid on her hips. She did not look back though. The wimmen on the sides who stayed put were giggling now at us. We had slowed down luckily. All they had to do was just wait for us to get to the median, as there were no other vehicles behind us.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Sep 2012 23:11

See.. thank them else your driving on the whining roads would have become so boring. You should have stopped, and had a nice chat with them and getting to know them more.. by that you could have established few things -
1. relationship - perhaps.. \ahem\ /cough
2. being well known, or let them know the risks
3. and you getting to know, what is important for them to cross the road over their lives.

That way, we could draft such requirements into road planning.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Sep 2012 12:27

Last November, my dad decided to drive to my village and back. He started morning 5:30 reached our village by 10:30. As long as he was on the national Highway things went well. When he left national Highway the last 50 kms or so. Things went to hell. That drive took almost 30 hrs. Primarily on account of the condition of the road.

The return trip. He did almost 700 Km in 8 hrs, and the final 200 Kms took him 9 hrs, as he got struck in a massive column of traffic returning from Agra. That to him was a nightmare.

The Agra expressway will now turn that stretch into a breeze.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 11 Sep 2012 14:30

If you are FOB from massa, DO NOT drive. Here, most of the people believe that it is the other driver's responsibility to avoid a crash. "He will brake onlee" attitude. So, it is very easy to end up in trouble.

I never drove during my vacations. After RTI, I didn't drive for more than a week, just to get out of jetlag. Then started with very short trips, and re-trained myself.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Sep 2012 15:28

Pratyush wrote: When he left national Highway the last 50 kms or so. Things went to hell. That drive took almost 30 hrs. Primarily on account of the condition of the road.

30? I am hoping its a typo. That's a day and more.

I have said this before too, why oh why do they put in crores of rupees to build a new road and then don't put an extra feet at the shoulder for a bike to go. For ex, the elevated expressway in Hosur road. Speed limit says 80. The right lane is full of people rushing at 100. The left lane has bikers at varying speeds and the cars in the left lane frequently cut into the right lane...people reading Blr vernacular papers - are there accidents in that road?

The Erode - Sathy road is like that and a cousin of SHQ died last week in a bike accident. He was not wearing helmet as well and died on the spot.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Sep 2012 17:45

there is usually a police speed van on silk board flyover in one of the few sidings atop the thing. it tickets the usual assortment of yahoos speeding at 100+

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 11 Sep 2012 19:05

Even if you have a wide enough shoulder on the road, the bigger vehicles aren't going to let bikers use it in peace. One of these days, there is going to be a biker fatality on NICE road. Slow moving trucks use both lanes and there is rampant overtaking using the shoulders. And it's mostly the yuppy crowd which does it. The other day, saw someone (in a Swift, quelle surprise) try to overtake another car on the extreme left lane on the elevated highway and scrape the side wall for about 20 meters. Absolute nutters.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 11 Sep 2012 19:28

Since the opening of the Agra expressway, there have been many accidents and fatalities in less than a month. Was reading about it in the newspaper while in Agra and this with low traffic density on that stretch.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Sep 2012 20:03

IMO bike riders should never exceed 50 kmph. Even 60 kmph is too much. You are pushing the laws of physics here WRT to the human body and collisions.

It is plain wrong to think that bike riders should be on free ways. At those speeds even a minor spill is guaranteed to be fatal. Bike riders on expressways mixed with 100 kmph vehicles is just plain wrong in terms of traffic engineering. You have set up a perfect meat grinder. The purpose of traffic engineering to ensure all vehicles travel at roughly the same speed all the time. Say 80-100 kmph. It is fatal for bike riders to attempt to keep up.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 11 Sep 2012 20:27

^^^

Theo saar,

The German & Japanese govt have ordered all bike manufacturers to electronically limit top speed to xxx kmph. Anything above is fatal. What is the max speed allowed?

300 kmph onlee

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Sep 2012 21:19

It is one thing for young yahoo's to speed around at 100 kmph on bike.

It is quite another for random uncle and mami to try it. Regular folks should not be going at 50kmph+ on bike just like they should not be doing so on BMW bike. Bike at speed is a very high skill activity and one single mistake or incident will kill you.

The miracle of car is even regular folks can drive at 100 kmph at very relatively good safety.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Sep 2012 21:32

well...not everybody can own a car..or availability of easy transport where they are going. say you go by bus to your inlaws..then you need a bike to get around..so most people go by bike to inlaws even if its a 100 km trip. It will be a long while for variability in vehicles to go down, people get trained in safety and road manners and public transportation is desired etc..in the mean time, we can at least do what we can with the situation that is utter chaos right now.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 11 Sep 2012 21:34

Different places require different regulations. In India, where the avg speed is 35 kmph on regular highways, this kind of regulation is unnecessary. Perhaps in the US, where 120 kmph & above is normal will probably look into it. Places like Germany (with autobahns & no speed limit), people can exceed 200 kmph and reach 300 kmph in certain places. They probably have the best driving skills & strict rules.

All this is relative. What will work in one place will simply fail in one another. Probably thats why we have Indians who have been able to live in the absence of rules & some TFTA foreigners who cant understand natural traffic flow in the absence of traffic lights & strict rules. This might change with the addition of high speed expressways but for the most part traffic rules will be decided by Indian drivers (direct democracy

) versus traffic laws.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Sep 2012 21:35

They still should not be getting on a expressway for this. It is suicide. Stick to country roads. Or take the bus. It is chaos because mama and mami are trying to do shortcut and paying with their lives. Like everything else in India....

I don't know which highway you are talking about but the speeds on say on NH4 were definitely much much higher than 35 kmph. I was cruising at 80-90 kmph when several cars and even a truck and several buses breezed by me. Near Thirunelveli with open roads speeds were much higher. I saw several in excess of 120+ kmph. Yet there was mama and mami on the shoulder or often in the slow lane put-putting along at 30-40 kmph. I saw several in the fast lane even. They are already dead, just don't know it yet.

We should not grumble about the fatality rate then. This is unmanageable. Death rate will continue rising....

Like I said its a meat grinder.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 11 Sep 2012 21:50

Its not. I know most will disagree. But the people's driving style depends on where they drive most of the time. No one can change his/her driving style in a minute. If everyone starts following traffic rules & gets dependent on them, they would be like a deer in headlights on rural roads (without traffic light, street light, lane markings & other stuff we take for granted).

The country evolves according to the situation it is in. The current road conditions demand that you avoid the next pothole and not drive in your lane. If we want the driving styles to change, make TFTA drive ways everywhere. To blame drivers for driving carelessly is ridiculous. No one like to take his own life. It is a reflection of road (& infrastructure) in general.

As I said, change the roads, driving style will change. No one will adopt a driving style that is suited to only 10% of his total driving distance. Once >50% reach a particular standard, the driving style will reflect that.

There are some roads where driving lanes & traffic lights are really respected. These can be found in the upscale areas of Delhi & Mumbai. If one observes their driving, it reflects the excellent condition of road infrastructure. For the pan Indian drivers, everything is Ram bharose...

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 11 Sep 2012 21:51

Check the speed! Expressway accidents cause concern

"While the upper limit is fixed at 100 kmph but am not too sure whether people would adhere to it once they are behind the wheel," Akhilesh Yadav had said.

His uncle and senior Samajwadi party (SP) leader Ram Gopal Yadav had, however, requested officials to "explore possibilities" to up the speed limit to 120 or more.

"100 ki speed par to driver ko susti aa jayegi," (the driver will feel lethargic if he is restricted to a speed of 100 kmph ) he had said.

With tyre bursts behind two of the three accidents, developers are now getting speed and maintenance advisories published in forms of printed material to be handed over to motorists before they enter the expressway.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Sep 2012 22:02

nakul wrote:No one like to take his own life. It is a reflection of road (& infrastructure) in general.As I said, change the roads, driving style will change. No one will adopt a driving style that is suited to only 10% of his total driving distance. Once >50% reach a particular standard, the driving style will reflect that.

I completely agree with this boss.

Problem is roads have changed but folks are still trying to putt-putt along it. I do agree engineering must get better. The fences are there for a reason and most highways do have a minimum speed as well. I can say going less than 60 kmph on TN highways is simply asking for it. Folks are being suicidal. Get off the bike and get in a bus, which is why public transport is so critical at this stage of our development.

I can also say that I use motorbike around south TN and never ever get on a highway. Even though I have a Bullet that can easily get to 80 kmph. Most towns have a dense interconnection of rural roads that one can take avoiding expressways.

Like I said we should not complain about the death rate then. It will continue to rise.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 11 Sep 2012 22:11

Here is something I have seen common to Indians & Americans. While most NRIs crib about Indian driving style when comparing to massan drivers, Americans (who have been to Germany, Austria) do the same about their countrymen comparing them to Europe.

I think it is simply human nature to see one as backward when encountered with a superior alternative. For eg, the left most lane is reserved exclusively for overtaking. Any one found driving on it when the other lanes are empty is penalised. The idea is to populate the rightmost lane first and then proceed to the left.

Here we see people doing the same. Except that due to opposite driving rules (right hand drive), the result turns out to be exactly opposite. In our case, it is often necessary since no one knows who is going to pull out from a building / road side parking / pull over to the sandwich wala...

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Sep 2012 22:16

You'll see every kind on the road. The yahoo on a pulsar swerving in and out and constantly peeking to overtake, the family guy who goes steadily at a slow speed on the right lane, the entire family of 5 people in one bike, the tvs 50s which cannot go more than 50 kmph.

I agree with nakul that nobody likes to die. But some people are just too stupid to realise what they are doing will lead to death. I often see somebody on the left side who will turn his vehicle right and while vehicle is in half turn, he will turn his head to see if traffic is clear. He does not realize that the guy on this lane is doing 120 on his car and has no clue that you are going to jut into his path. This is a force of habit from the days when traffic would be doing 60 kmph and there was no risk in this bad habit.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Sep 2012 22:22

nakul wrote:Here we see people doing the same. Except that due to opposite driving rules (right hand drive), the result turns out to be exactly opposite. In our case, it is often necessary since no one knows who is going to pull out from a building / road side parking / pull over to the sandwich wala...

My cousin told me that he always drives on the right lane because there are "less obstacles" to watch for and that if anybody wants to overtake..let them get around..why me bother

But because of everybody doing this and the faster cars always swinging to your left while you are on the right (whether you are overtaking a slower vehicle or not)..it is sometimes safer to just stick to the right and let people overtake to the left (compared to you being on the left and constantly having to worry about going right to overtake an even slower vehicle). This is because of the mix of vehicles on the road from 1 (animals, pedestrians) to 150 (new fast cars/SUV) and everything in between.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Sep 2012 02:31

Tire ratings are important to keep for the intended speed. Tires can burst if vehicles are driven consistently above the limits.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Sep 2012 12:51

SaiK wrote:Tire ratings are important to keep for the intended speed. Tires can burst if vehicles are driven consistently above the limits.

This fact is Blissfully ignored, especially tourist Cab Sumos and Indicas well beyond replacement date doing max speed 110-~120KPh on Highways.
I always make it a point to rest 150-200KM just to let Tyres and Brakes cool down, I see a distinct drop in Performance which scares me.

In the good old days before coolant people would naturally stop to let radiators cool while tyres and Brakes got the rest.

Nowadays, people think Chennai to Bengaluru or Tirchi can be done non stop.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Sep 2012 15:19

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dyna ... 06249g.jpg
Road maintenance and repair is one thing, but road operation and usage is entirely another thing. Why do roads in desh does not look like roads? There are many reasons.. people don't get it. It does not cost big money to be clean.