Anujan wrote:Aslam Beg was ex DG ISI. Post OBL getting his 72 he wrote an article saying that Osama's clone was transported from Bagram and killed in abbottabad. Sometimes I wonder if pakis really believe all this or merely say it to infuriate others. I have some nice pisko post about this too.
Suar Hafwitz brings the Bacon home but ,ramana wrote:Jhujar, You forgot the beards!
In San Diego zoo there is an animal called "Bearded pig" I thought of the jiohadis in TSP.I call Hafiz Saeed as Hafwitz Suar.
Friday has started in La La land. Have faith, we will see some action from the land of the pureramana wrote:Its really odd that there are no protests in TSP on the 'film' as in the WANA.
That goes well back into the pre-Partition Muslim League days. That tactic has remained the same (as are others such as using violence). It is not only blaming but lying to blame India. But, what to do ? TSP lies for good causes onlee.ramana wrote:So the meme of blaming India when caught with their perfidy, runs long and true in TSP jaguar veins.
CRS, you forget the master's hand. It is He who is running the Aman-ki-Asha project in both the countries. It appears to me that GoI is sold on this approach (nothing new for us as we have always believed in the dictum of love and generosity with Pakistan) and is going full steam on this. TSP is, as usual, playing a duplicitous role. It pretends to go along with the Master's bidding but only so far as extracting all concessions from India but not reciprocating in return or reciprocating just enough so as not to fall foul of the Master. The Transit Trade agreement between TSP & Afghanistan is a case in point.CRamS wrote:SSridhar:
I agree with your analysis on TSP perfidy wrt MFN. But question is why does TSP have to go to such lengths? Even if TSP were to overtly declare NO MFN (and I must confess, I am not "chanakyan" and so I am mystified as to why India is begging this abomination for MFN), do you think MMS & Co will stop aman ki tamasha? The number of people who "learn to love TSP" will only grow as TSP insults India even more and gets away with it.
CRS, it is a good question for which I have no definite answer. In fact, it is possible that we may not know the answer at all. Our history with Pakistan suggests that reasonableness has no place in relationship with that country because TSP is bent on achieving certain goals vis-a-vis India. It is not amenable to reasoning, logic and decent inter-state relationship. And yet, time and time again, we have decided to deal rationally with them only to be rebuffed and the relationship going nowhere. Pakistan had only considered such an approach of reasonableness as stemming from Indian weakness which emboldened them to be more daring with us.I am just still shell shocked that after at least 2 or so years when India was fairly united in doing no business with TSP until 26/11 was addressed, when did that sentiment melt down en mass?
SS, coming back to my question, when did India's 26/11 outrage melt away en mass? I know MMS's SeS surrender etc. But that alone cannot explain why so many Indian elites including media, even section of so called "Hindu nationalist" BJP are partaking in this aman ki tamasha. Is there a time line highlighting the descent from India's united outrage post 26/11 to the shameful surrender we are witnessing now? Is there a rational explanation for that rather than the usual explanations that come to mind: lack of capability, cowardice, WKKism, need to grow economy at 10% etc? I mean these factors notwithstanding, I mean 26/11 was a Lakshamn Rekha TSP crossed which should never be forgotten until TSP pays some price. What am I missing?
Sir bliss to post a copy of your emails & the Paki-lover's response to them here (or Humor thread?).SSridhar wrote:I wrote to him about wrong & illogical comparisons. He replies to me quoting humanity etc. Have sent him another mail but no reply so far.arun wrote:Holding my nose and suppressing my gag reflex:
Aman Ki Asha: How I started loving Pakistan
About 15 key players from the Middle East — from Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran and a couple Coptic Christians from Egypt — worked on the film, Klein said.
I said,Chandragupta wrote:Sir bliss to post a copy of your emails & the Paki-lover's response to them here (or Humor thread?).
He replied in an Alec Smart wayHowever, I was taken aback by your comparing Ajmal Kasab & Hafeez Saeed with Bajrangi & Kodnani. The reason is simple. The last two persons have been convicted by an Indian court for killing Indians. The former two are also killers of Indians.
So, where is the comparison, Mr. Kapoor ?
I would be glad to receive a clarification from you.
I see no difference between them. For all of them have committed crimes against humanity. They also killed innocent people, thus how are they any different from these Pakistani terrorists?
For them, the aggresssor == defender. No amount of logic is going to change that. To be in their good books, one must completely surrender oneself.I see no difference between them. For all of them have committed crimes against humanity. They also killed innocent people, thus how are they any different from these Pakistani terrorists?
Oh, yes. We know the 'sensitive' nature of NLC, like smuglling in & out narcotics, goods etc. The PA's Fauji Foundation, National Logistics Cell and the Frontier Roads Organization, PAF's Shaheen Foundation and the PN's Bahria Foundation are all sources of huge perennial income for the officers. Yes, the Taliban make money in multiple ways like protection money for NATO trucks, bank dacoities, contribution from the Middle East patrons, ransom from minorities through kidnapping, extortion etc. But, profits generated from narcotics overshadows these contributions to the Caliphate's exchequer. This is where the ISI, the PA's National Logistics Cell, and the very top Corps Commanders are directly involved. Even when Ms. BB and then Nawaz Sharif were the Prime Ministers, the trail went right up to the Prime Minister. Nawaz Sharif once admitted that Gen. Aslam Beg & the then ISI Chief Asad Durrani told him about this.An extraordinary case is threatening to discredit the generals of the Pakistan army and undermine the trust of the people in the armed forces. It involves serious charges by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) of parliament against three generals of misconduct, misappropriation, misdemeanor and misadventure when they were in charge of the National Logistics Cell (NLC) and took decisions that led to the loss of about Rs 2 billion to the exchequer. The three retired generals are Lt Gen Khalid Munir, Lt Gen M Afzal Muzaffar and Maj-Gen Khalid Zaheer Akhtar.
An inquiry committee investigated the matter and came to some damning conclusions: the top decision-making generals of NLC violated all the rules in the book by speculating Rs 4 billion in the stock market, including Rs 2 billion borrowed from the banks, and ended up losing Rs 2 billion. It recommended that action be taken against them because they had taken commissions and kickbacks for committing funds to such an illegal and dubious enterprise.
The leader of the opposition, Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, initiated the inquiry in 2009. He says the army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, informally asked him to hold his horses until GHQ had carried out its own investigation into the matter since it involved three generals. In December 2010, the defense secretary, Lt Gen (retd) Syed Athar Ali, assured the PAC that the military's report would be ready for presentation within a month. But GHQ's "investigation" didn't see the light of day for another two years, provoking the PAC under a new chairman in 2012 to raise the matter again. The National Accountability Bureau (NAB) tasked to investigate and prosecute corruption in the private and public sector and led by an ex-chief of the navy, Admiral (retd) Fasih Bokhari, stepped into the fray but was swiftly thwarted by GHQ.
The case then took an extraordinary turn. GHQ announced it had "re-hired" the three retired generals and intended to court martial them. The PAC, a bipartisan parliamentary body, is stunned. It says GHQ has resorted to an unprecedented and illegal method to protect the three generals from civilian scrutiny and prosecution - court martial proceedings are not revealed to the public under the Army Act 1952.
The unofficial response from the military stresses the "sensitive" nature of the NLC's operations. The military also claims the three generals acted in good faith.
Indian and Pakistani hacks who were present in Isloo during the meetings of their respective Foreign Ministers say that the Hindustani gent seemed to have developed a soft spot for his Pakistani counterpart. Who can blame him? She is young and attractive, intelligent and well-spoken. She conducted herself with impeccable manners - the only slip of the tongue was when speaking of the pointless stand-off at Siachin, she spoke of the "Lyari" sector instead of the Gyari sector. Nevertheless, her Indian counterpart was utterly charmed. At a state reception later, Hubby, in his trademark naughty way, spotted a rakhi on the Indian For Min's wrist and asked pointedly if Our Lady of the Dopatta had given it to him.
And, even a free-thinking Pakistani accepts how much India has bent over. Says Khaled Ahmed,Since the military handles foreign policy vis-a-vis the two enemies, COAS General Kayani is to be praised for lifting his ban on liberal visa, triggering people-to-people contacts riding on expectations of economic benefit to Pakistan. If there was a South Asian Nobel Prize for Peace, he would deserve it, even though it would risk alienating a widespread community of non-state-actor proxy warriors whose own security hinges on a permanent state of war with India. Therefore expect more terrorist violence by elements originally midwifed by the Army.
Those who think Pakistan has bent backwards to allow the liberal visa at the risk of national security should also dwell a little on what kind of bending Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has done to sign this latest agreement which may yet be rejected by proxy warriors in a very unstable Pakistan where laws cannot be enforced.
India has chosen to set aside its preconditions relating to terrorism that it attached to any Pakistani initiative at normalisation. New Delhi has decided to forget the most recent falsehoods concocted by our Interior Minister and the various TV channels about how India was paying the Taliban to kill innocent Pakistanis and enabling the Baloch rebels with dollars to launch attacks in Balochistan.
There was a time not long ago when Mr Krishna used to come to Islamabad asking for proof which was never forthcoming. He still wants Pakistan to do something about the elements in Pakistan who carried out the Mumbai massacre of 2008 and has swallowed the high profile acceptance of some proxy warriors in Pakistan that the world accuses of crossborder terrorism.
One Paki FM last year tried the same trick with Hillary Clinton and was given the cold shoulder. But trust our old and ugly politicians to fall for the soft honey trap. Indians have a habit of forming their perception of other people by the way they personally get treated -- others exploit this weakness while screwing the rest of the Indians.partha wrote:^
Whoa! Actually not surprising considering that Hindustani gent's colorful life back home.
Thank god he at least acknowledged kasab as a murderer and not a misguided innocent. Then where is the issue? In the same spirit he and people plotted the murder of more than hundred people must be punished, therefore pakistan must be punished. simple. Or he thinks RSS or VHP are behind mumbai massacre?I see no difference between them. For all of them have committed crimes against humanity. They also killed innocent people, thus how are they any different from these Pakistani terrorists?
Inter Service Public Relations (ISPR) on Friday issued its stance for the first time in the case of financial irregularities in the National Logistic Cell.
ISPR press release said that the three retired generals accused of being involved in a multi-billion rupees scam NLC would be investigated according to the Pakistan Army Act.
The three accused generals Lt-Generals Khalid Munir Khan, Lt-Gen (retd) M. Afzal Muzzafar, Director General of NLC Maj-Gen (retd) Khalid Zaheer Akhtar, were already questioned in that regard, the press release added.
Major general level officers were designated to analyse the Summary of Evidence on behalf of Chief of Army Staff Ashfaq Kayani. The COAS would further direct after analyses of the summary.
“Basing on the credibility of the evidence accrued through these Summaries of Evidence, the COAS will decide on the next legal step. It is categorically stated that the case will be conducted strictly in accordance with due process of law and those proven guilty of wrong doings will be brought to justice.”
“It is further clarified that for recording of the Summaries of Evidence, it was essential to bring the accused officers under PAA.
Therefore, accused retired officers were taken on the strength of the Army. This was done in accordance with Pakistan Army Act Section 92, read in conjunction with Section 40. The accused officers have neither been re-hired nor reinstated.”
Earlier, three retired generals accused of being involved in a multi-billion scam of National Logistics Cell (NLC) have been taken back in active service so that they may face court martial, the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) of National Assembly was informed on Sept 6.
The issue of financial mismanagement and alleged corruption of Rs2 billion in the military-run NLC came to light in February 2009 when the PAC asked the Planning Commission to look into the matter. Then PAC chairman Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan first gave a deadline of two months for determining the truth about the scandal. Subsequently, four different inquiries were conducted but the issue remained unresolved.
The first inquiry was carried out by the Planning Commission. While the PAC was discussing the report of this inquiry it was informed that a consultant had been hired by the new NLC management to prepare a fresh report on the issue. Initially, the consultant’s report was not presented before the committee which after some efforts managed to get it.
Military dictator Zia-ul-Haq had begun to use public flogging as an instrument of governance. When I had left in April 1972, West Pakistan was traumatized by the loss of East Pakistan but also enthused with the hope of making a new Pakistan. Now the charismatic democratic leader Bhutto had been hanged and a cloak of false piety covered every sphere of life. In the government apartment allotted to me the previous residents had converted one of the European commodes in the toilet into an Asian one. I requested Maintenance Department to get it converted back to the original or let me get it done at my own cost. I was told to approach the director. He refused my request, telling me that the Asian commode was appropriate for 'taharat' (ablution) and the European commode was un-Islamic! In my village, as in many others, General Zia's abuse of religion had led to sectarian divisions and violence. Religious leaders - genuine and fake alike - held sway in daily life and on TV. General Zia-ul-Haq too had heard the popular joke that someone called PTV and complained that his TV set had gone out of order because a maulvi had got stuck in it. The president personally assured the nation that the maulvi will remain stuck in the TV. As a friend pointed out, the Meteorological Department during Zia's reign would not forecast rain and thunderstorm because that was encroaching upon the Divine authority-they only gave the temperatures, direction of wind and rain of the past 24 hours. The use of the expression "The Third World" was disallowed because that could be associated with Bhutto, who was known as a leader of The Third World. Zia modified the poetry of Shahbaz Kalandar by changing the words "Ali da pehla number" to "Ali dum dum dey andar". The Dictator did not need anyone's permission - even the country's constitution was a piece of paper for him.
SSridhar wrote: CRS, it is a good question for which I have no definite answer. In fact, it is possible that we may not know the answer at all. Our history with Pakistan suggests that reasonableness has no place in relationship with that country because TSP is bent on achieving certain goals vis-a-vis India.
SSJi, I am highlighting the above two important quotes from your post. The first quote is a fact. TSP is determined to achieve certain objectives visa vii India, which essentially boils down to undoing India. Although fanatsy of yesteryear is replaced with the "pragmatic" approach TSP is following now: appearance of being reasonable to our spineless, clueless, WKK, Paki-pasand leaders.
I can think of only two reasons. One, that the ruling dispensation has concluded that India has no other option against Pakistan than establishing peace with Pakistan even if it meant conceding to their demands. That the Indian populace would not seriously object to these concessions is by now well established and this made the decision easier for the Indian political leadership.
WKKs believe that this is not giving an edge. Its about buying time. We don't even see a mention of Pakistan while new weapons are brought. It's all about China now. Militarily, we have increased the gap. Some want us to go all the way in making Pakistan look like a state of India in economic terms.But the second quote is what bothers me. If India has determined that it cannot take on TSP, Indian population don't give a rat's behind no matter what India gives up to TSP, then where is the Lakshamn Rekha? I mean are we going to see this surrender by India continue until TSP gets back its edge, and then it strikes and goes for the kill?
This got me thinking too.Dilbu wrote:They want protest in J&K and make India look bad while they control things on their side and say 'zee we are 400% more beaceful..'.
.K M s also need to show that they are not pussies. So they periodically stage a demonstration to show that India cannot force their rules on them.I'd like others to comment on my take on TSP piskology
After spending time on the internet searching for such things as donkey sex, camel sex, donkey and camel sex..and so on and so forth, they have precious little time to search for current affairs or anti-probhet philam on jewtube. It takes a day or two for news to trickle down via word of (the mullah's) mouth and then they get their act together.Dipanker wrote:O.k. it seems some of you spoke too soon!
snip...
+ a MillionRangudu wrote:The issue is not abt going to war.
What RamaY theorizes is India having better than US covert intel acquisition AND strike capability.
If India has such powers then what logical reason exists for it not to have been used to take out 26/11 masterminds until now? After all, if it's covert, then it's deniable, no?
This is becoming like Amartya Sen-ish talking shop where people try to invent convoluted and internally inconsistent reasons for India to bend over and keep taking it while it supposedly has all these super-duper covert capabilities.
If you're a restrained but tough guy and your neighbor rapes your wife, kills your kids and gloats about it, then what use is the toughness?
Maybe I, CRS and a few others are not that sharp or well connected to understand this. So I request anyone who believes what RamaY is saying to explain in plain desi English to us why India chooses not to use all these super duper powers to take out 26/11 chiefs?
Go ahead, enlighten us idiots
