West Asia News and Discussions

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 15 Sep 2012 21:47

the Mullahs sense change in paradigm. so they need to stake their claim right now. they need to "declare Allah's strength", at this crucial stage so they don't get sidelined. they are bargaining for influence and "stature" within the new post-Dictatorial regimes that are coming up.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Sep 2012 22:01

It will be naive to think all these things in isolation.

The fight is for the occupation of human mind. Slowly but surely the human consciousness is getting to accept following things.

1. That is is absolutely not ok to criticize Quran or it's prophet or Islamic way of life. If anyone does it, the Muslims all over the world (rich/poor, educated/uneducated, it doesn't matter) will create havoc in their native societies.

2. That the Ummah is always alive, irrespective of what some dhimmi apologists say putting smoke screens of Shia/Sunni and intra-Islamic fights. It doesn't matter if a Jewish American insults their way, but the Indian Muslims in Hindu majority India will create havoc, and so on.

3. The world cannot deny the rights of Muslims in their abusing and apartheid towards non-Muslims because it is said so in Quran. Refer to point 1, if you have any disagreements.

By not suppressing this nonsense brutally, the governments and societies all over the world have become light-green themselvess, irrespective of the excuses and justification they put for their inactions.

Perhaps the brahmastras are used preemptively before the costs are raised too high.

ShyamDji,
Perhaps you are too close to the problem, hence are mistaking trees to be the forest.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 16 Sep 2012 01:39

Interesting analysis from Shashank Joshi:

Film protests: What explains the anger?

One answer is that last year's wave of political uprisings, the so-called Arab Spring, is responsible.

After all, protests began in Egypt, which last year became the most populous Arab democracy, and spread to Libya, which became the largest by area.

The Arab Spring did indeed invigorate a range of Islamist movements and weakened the law enforcement capabilities of the affected states.

In that febrile political environment, protests might have been easier to start, simpler for violent extremists to exploit, and harder for confused security forces to manage.

The second argument is that we are witnessing profound anti-Americanism, dormant for much of last year, fused with religious extremism - with the controversial Innocence of Muslims film merely a trigger.

Even where it is widespread, anti-Americanism is simply not a sufficient explanation for outbreaks of violence.

In many cases, protests might have had little energy had local religious and political entrepreneurs, eager to bolster their following and create disorder, not exploited them.

In Khartoum, for instance, local buses were laid on to transport prayer-goers to protest sites.

In Libya, to speak of a protest is misleading. The assault in which US Ambassador Chris Stevens died was probably a co-ordinated, complex undertaking by an organised militant group, perhaps in concert with al-Qaeda's North African affiliate.

Above all, however, many Americans will rightly or wrongly see this week's protests as indicative of the failure of engagement, not a sign that more is needed.
In Egypt, American faith in President Mohammed Mursi has been badly shaken. Despite Egypt's continued military and financial dependence on Washington, Mr Mursi hesitated in condemning the protests.
President Obama's admission that "I don't think that we would consider [Egypt] an ally, but we don't consider them an enemy" highlights how the political sands are shifting.

There will be new pressures for the US to disengage from the Middle East, revert to fortress-style embassies, and accelerate the refocusing of American attention to Asia.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Sep 2012 02:48

^^^ The real origins are jealousy at the world that has moved on and left them behind. They clutch at straws to rage. They would have raged even without those triggers.

Its a shame that leaders in West want to suppress the very freedoms that made them advance. Without those freedoms the West was also wallowing in similar morass.

Good for google that they said no.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Sep 2012 05:47

RamaY wrote: ShyamDji,
Perhaps you are too close to the problem, hence are mistaking trees to be the forest.

?? You have lost me

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Sep 2012 06:29

About three years ago Paul had wondered if Iran can take out Turkey/KSA-GCC/Jordan and knock the three legged stool of Western dominance in ME.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 30#p694730

Johann replied that Egypt rather than Jordan was the linch-pin of US strategy in ME.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 18#p694918

Looks like Arab Spring and Koran rage has taken out Egypt without Iran expending itself.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 16 Sep 2012 06:30

Ramanaji

I was googling for our Chris Stevens and his past assignments. I think his execution is a message to some sections of US State Dept. Iran has some stake in it. I think the underlined portion of Ekalvya's news post is in the right direction.

Need to research more before we have more plausible explanation, but for now - http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/ar ... e_20060908

ShyamDji
My pointer was about your assessment of Bahrain joining KSA or whatever. It is not in Indias interests - in short or long term.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 16 Sep 2012 08:23

all this time nothing happening in KSA?

So it proves that faithful fall in line when the but is kicked

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 16 Sep 2012 08:31

Ramana,

The Arab encounter with modernity has not gone well. They resist the concept of continuous social change. In their desert climate with no rain they crave no change and complete certainty. Every time they have opened up and moved forward one step the West and other countries move 2 steps leaving them with having to perform even more change. You can see the same dynamic in TSP. They want the certainty of permanent enemies and permanent friends. China & India indulge them in this, but the USA does not and it has shredded their mental peace.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 16 Sep 2012 08:58

so now psycho anthrapology

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 16 Sep 2012 10:38

P,

Quit the personal attacks. You have followed me from thread to thread doing this same garbage, like a troll. If you have some thing to say to me direct say so.

When others are having a conversation learn some manners.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 16 Sep 2012 10:43

my observation was on this.

all this time nothing happening in KSA?

So it proves that faithful fall in line when the but is kicked

In a manner you should mind.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 16 Sep 2012 11:13

pentaiah wrote:all this time nothing happening in KSA?

So it proves that faithful fall in line when the but is kicked

Have the Saudis ever gone out in protest for anything at any time in their lives? I figured they'd all be sitting on their lazy behinds in air-conditioned comfort, rather than stand under the hot sun yelling slogans. I thought protesting is only done by their foreign-origin workforce.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Sep 2012 15:04

RamaY ji, do explain why it is not in our interest .

-------
Egypt is central to gulf defence. That is now changing to Turkey, but so far they are not proving to be very reliable partners

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 16 Sep 2012 17:53

ArmenT wrote:Have the Saudis ever gone out in protest for anything at any time in their lives? I figured they'd all be sitting on their lazy behinds in air-conditioned comfort, rather than stand under the hot sun yelling slogans.

Almost correct. The one part of KSA that does witness protests against and violent clashes with the Al-Saud regime is the Eastern Province, which has a Shia majority (at least according to the BBC) and has most of the KSA's oil reserves, including the super-giant Ghawar field, that produces 5 million bbl/d (ca 50% of KSA crude production). Quite a combustible mixture, and the real reason why the Al-Sauds and the Iranian mullahs hate each other so much. Given that Bahrain also has a Shia majority, if what shyamd says is right (upcoming annexation of Bahrain by KSA), there are bound to be severe violent clashes between the majority Shias and the ruling Sunni regimes in Bahrain and the Eastern Province.

Saudi Arabia: Soldier shot dead in Eastern Province

The oil-rich Eastern Province is home to a Shia majority that has long complained of marginalisation

Protests erupted in the region in March 2011 when a popular uprising in neighbouring Bahrain, which has a Shia majority and a Sunni royal family, was crushed with the assistance of Saudi and other Gulf troops.

FACTBOX-Saudi Eastern Province, scene of new protests

-- Shi'ites complain their religious ceremonies are banned or interfered with by Sunni authorities. They say their places of worship are not authorised by the government and frequently closed down. This is despite Saudi Arabia permitting observance of the Shi'ite commemoration of Ashura in 2004 - an important early measure for Shi'ites gaining more recognition.

-- Last year however, authorities closed at least nine places of worship in Khobar and the al-Ahsa region, the U.S. government said in a report in November 2011.

* OIL AND WEALTH

-- Eastern Province is home to most of Saudi Arabia's oil production. According to the Oil and Gas Journal, Saudi Arabia contains approximately 260 billion barrels of proven oil reserves - plus 2.5 billion barrels in the Saudi-Kuwaiti shared "Neutral" Zone, all amounting to around one-fifth of proven, conventional world oil reserves.

-- Although Saudi Arabia has around 100 major oil and gas fields, over half of its oil reserves are contained in only eight fields in Eastern Province, including the giant 1,260-square mile Ghawar field, the world's largest oilfield, with estimated remaining reserves of 70 billion barrels.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Sep 2012 18:24

Not annexing Bahrain at all - they just need to cement financial and backing to sustain the Al Khalifa rule and sunni KSA doesn't want an Iranian friendly island just 2 hours away from every major oil/gas field in the region and close to the eastern KSA. Bahrain itself has enough forces to deal with the domestic issues. Also uniting to face the external enemy Iran - as the Vijayanagar empire was united to face the external threat.

---------------------------
Finally, something more interesting to talk about. Region is on red alert for Israeli strike as you can see and also a war by miscalculation (by both Iran and US) is high on the cards. French and British are ready to strike in Syria. But looks like Iran is a bigger thing to worry about.

I hope IN has made the necessary contingency plans and its probably wise to deploy a logistics fleet to Oman in the event of any emergency.

All that is happening here is that they are trying to make Iran fall from within... Pressure in Syria and build up in straits is forcing Iran to react by large defence exercises - deploy in Syria/Lebanon and spend their $100 bn reserves that they had saved to withstand sanctions and fight a war against the west.
So iran is attritioning on multiple fronts (syria) - via weapons and money. I am surprised they are falling for the bait, their own worst enemy is their ego and pride.

Armada of British naval power massing in the Gulf as Israel prepares an Iran strike
An armada of US and British naval power is massing in the Persian Gulf in the belief that Israel is considering a pre-emptive strike against Iran’s covert nuclear weapons programme.

Battleships, aircraft carriers, minesweepers and submarines from 25 nations are converging on the strategically important Strait of Hormuz in an unprecedented show of force as Israel and Iran move towards the brink of war.

Western leaders are convinced that Iran will retaliate to any attack by attempting to mine or blockade the shipping lane through which passes around 18 million barrels of oil every day, approximately 35 per cent of the world’s petroleum traded by sea.

A blockade would have a catastrophic effect on the fragile economies of Britain, Europe the United States and Japan, all of which rely heavily on oil and gas supplies from the Gulf.

The Strait of Hormuz is one of the world’s most congested international waterways. It is only 21 miles wide at its narrowest point and is bordered by the Iranian coast to the north and the United Arab Emirates to the south.

In preparation for any pre-emptive or retaliatory action by Iran, warships from more than 25 countries, including the United States, Britain, France, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, will today begin an annual 12-day exercise.

The war games are the largest ever undertaken in the region.

They will practise tactics in how to breach an Iranian blockade of the strait and the force will also undertake counter-mining drills.

The multi-national naval force in the Gulf includes three US Nimitz class carrier groups, each of which has more aircraft than the entire complement of the Iranian air force.

The carriers are supported by at least 12 battleships, including ballistic missile cruisers, frigates, destroyers and assault ships carrying thousand of US Marines and special forces.

The British component consists of four British minesweepers and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Cardigan Bay, a logistics vessel. HMS Diamond, a brand-new £1billion Type 45 destroyer, one of the most powerful ships in the British fleet, will also be operating in the region.

In addition, commanders will also simulate destroying Iranian combat jets, ships and coastal missile batteries.

In the event of war, the main threat to the multi-national force will come from the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps navy, which is expected to adopt an “access-denial” strategy in the wake of an attack, by directly targeting US warships, attacking merchant shipping and mining vital maritime chokepoints in the Persian Gulf.

Defence sources say that although Iran’s capability may not be technologically sophisticated, it could deliver a series of lethal blows against British and US ships using mini-subs, fast attack boats, mines and shore-based anti-ship missile batteries.

Next month, Iran will stage massive military manoeuvres of its own, to show that it is prepared to defend its nuclear installations against the threat of aerial bombardment.

The exercise is being showcased as the biggest air defence war game in the Islamic Republic’s history, and will be its most visible response yet to the prospect of an Israeli military strike.

Using surface-to-air missiles, unmanned drones and state-of-the-art radar, Iran’s Revolutionary Guards and air force will combine to test the defences of 3,600 sensitive locations throughout the country, including oil refineries and uranium enrichment facilities.

Brigadier General Farzad Esmaili, commander of the Khatam al-Anbiya air defence base, told a conference this month that the manoeuvres would “identify vulnerabilities, try out new tactics and practise old ones”.

At the same time as the Western manoeuvres in the Gulf, the British Response Task Forces Group — which includes the carrier HMS Illustrious, equipped with Apache attack helicopters, along with the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle - will be conducting a naval exercise in the eastern Mediterranean. The task force could easily be diverted to the Gulf region via the Suez Canal within a week of being ordered to do so.

The main naval exercise comes as President Barack Obama is scheduled to meet Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, today to discuss the Iranian crisis.

Many within the Obama administration believe that Israel will launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities before the US presidential elections, an act which would signal the failure of one of Washington’s key foreign policy objectives.

Both Downing Street and Washington hope that the show of force will demonstrate to Iran that Nato and the West will not allow President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian leader, to develop a nuclear armoury or close Hormuz.

Sir John Sawers, the head of MI6, the Secret Intelligence Service, reportedly met the Israeli prime minister and Ehud Barak, his defence secretary, two weeks ago in an attempt to avert military action against Iran.

But just last week Mr Netanyahu signalled that time for a negotiated settlement was running out when he said: “The world tells Israel 'Wait, there’s still time.’ And I say, 'Wait for what? Wait until when?’

“Those in the international community who refuse to put red lines before Iran don’t have a moral right to place a red light before Israel.”

The crisis hinges on Iran’s nuclear enrichment programme, which Israel believes is designed to build an atomic weapon. Tehran has long argued that the programme is for civil use only and says it has no plans to an build a nuclear bomb, but that claim has been disputed by the West, with even the head of MI6 stating that the Islamic Republic is on course to develop atomic weapons by 2014.

The Strait of Hormuz has long been disputed territory, with the Iranians claiming control of the region and the entire Persian Gulf.

Rear Admiral Ali Fadavi of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps recently boasted that “any plots of enemies” would be foiled and a heavy price exacted, adding: “We determine the rules of military conflict in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz.”

But Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, warned that Iranian attempts to exercise control over the Strait of Hormuz could be met with force.

He said: “The Iranians need to understand that the United States and the international community are going to hold them directly responsible for any disruption of shipping in that region — by Iran or, for that matter, by its surrogates.”

Mr Panetta said that the United States was “fully prepared for all contingencies” and added: “We’ve invested in capabilities to ensure that the Iranian attempt to close down shipping in the Gulf is something that we are going to be able to defeat if they make that decision.”

That announcement was supported by Philip Hammond, the Defence Secretary, who added: “We are determined to work as part of the international community effort to ensure freedom of passage in the international waters of the Strait of Hormuz.”

One defence source told The Sunday Telegraph last night: “If it came to war, there would be carnage. The Iranian casualties would be huge but they would be able to inflict severe blows against the US and British.

“The Iranian Republican Guard are well versed in asymmetrical warfare and would use swarm attacks to sink or seriously damage ships. This is a conflict nobody wants, but the rhetoric from Israel is unrelenting.”

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 16 Sep 2012 18:38

I am ready but Israel will not give away the timing
All their preemptive strikes have been succesful because of element of surprise so I strongly discount the possibility of attack now. The US public is not prepared for another war now.

Anyway I am ready and stocked up

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Sep 2012 18:40

The loud talk is different this time - its part of the regional strategy and an essential part of the talks over the nuclear program.

Everyone is waiting - Israel would prefer it if US did the job but problem is Ombaba is not giving guarantee, so Israel is saying everyday they don't strike the problem is going to keep getting worse and its going to be harder to deal with.

Glad to see the papcorn ready! I am stocking up too.. Make sure expiry date is longer than November 2012

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 16 Sep 2012 18:52

That's SOP for Spl ops like this hope you don't forget either in your busy schedule

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 16 Sep 2012 21:02

There is now significant absence of news on the immediate fall of Assad in the media. No new significant defections planned/announced. Iran has announced increased oil exports. The US embassy attacks were such a divine intervention for the GCC lobby it seems. Has acted as a good diversion for the faithful to take away from the frustration of not being delivered the head of Assad yet on a platter.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 16 Sep 2012 22:56

Susan Rice says: "We’re not impotent, we’re not even less popular".

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Sep 2012 23:29

LOL
Assad relative defects from regime

Syrian air force officer declares he is joining rebels in video; clashes in Damascus, Aleppo continue

Roi Kais
Published: 09.15.12, 21:52 / Israel News

A Syrian air force officer and a relative of President Bashar Assad has announced his defection from the Damascus regime with a video released this past weekend.

"I am defecting from this criminal gang and joining the Syrian Arab people's revolution," the high-ranking officer, Yousef Assad, said. He listed the regime's violent ways, which include "murder, explusion and neglect," as the reasons behind his decision.

He added that the Syrian regime is making "oppressive" use of aircraft "in order to destroy this homeland."

Yousef Assad in video

According to the opposition in Syria, 37 people have been killed in clashes across the country on Saturday, including 19 civilians, nine rebels and nine troops. The fighting was primarily concentrated in Damascus and Aleppo.

In Aleppo the army battled with rebels at the entrances to the rebel-held Bustan al-Basha district and helicopter gunships attacked the opposition bastions of Hanano, Qadi Askar, Sheikh Khader, Bustan al-Qasr and Sakhur, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

After a week of fighting over the central district of Midan, the army had taken most of the area and set up checkpoints for the first time.

Lakhdar Brahimi, the new international envoy tasked with ending Syria's civil war, said Saturday he still had no clear idea on how to proceed, but that it was "terribly important" to end a conflict that he warned was now a threat to regional and world peace.

Brahimi's bleak comments followed his first meeting with Bashar Assad since taking up the job he himself has called "nearly impossible."

French actively aiding Syria defectors

France is seeking to aid more high-profile defections from the regime of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, the French foreign minister said yesterday.

Laurent Fabius said France had already helped General Manaf Tlas flee and would extend help to others.

Speaking to parliament’s foreign affairs committee, he said: “It’s our role. Our agencies are active. ”

Gen Tlas, one of the most senior members of Assad’s rule to flee Syria, said on Monday he had defected in July with the help of French special forces.

Mr Fabius publicly confirmed for the first time that France had helped Gen Tlas escape Syria and said he had met the general to discuss Syria’s future “Why? Because we think that when there is somebody senior who wants to fight against Bashar al-Assad and to leave Syria, we help them,” he said.

After Gen Tlas, premier Riyad Hijab’s defection at the start of August was the latest sign of prominent members of Syria’s Sunni Muslim majority abandoning Mr Assad. There has been no sign yet that members of his mainly Alawite inner circle are losing their will to fight. Assad himself is a member of the offshoot sect of Shi’ite Islam.

A French diplomatic source said last week that a number of Alawite figures wanted to defect but wanted to take their families with them.

Meanwhile, actress Angelina Jolie visited Syrian refugees at a camp in Jordan. The Hollywood star, who is also the UN refugee agency’s special envoy, met women refugees at the Zaatari camp, which hosts about 30,000 Syrians displaced by the conflict.

“I am very concerned, the world is very concerned,” she said. “What is very heartbreaking is when Syrian people ask you why you think no-one is able to find a solution for them.”

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Sep 2012 00:49

Okay! Novemeber it is then. Is that a binding promise? I hope we dont have to wait until 21st December.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Sep 2012 00:53

An interesting angle to note is that - all the anti-US imperialism, anti-interventionist rhetoric that accompanied the current "socialist" President to power in France, has done nothing to change from the Sarkozian commitment towards promoting freedom and democracy in the oppressed world [minus Saudi Arabia and Bahrain of course - which are paragons of freedom and democracy].

So the left's stand on "anti-imperialism" should be seen for what it is - the Left being just another face of imperialism, and sourced again, from Europe.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Sep 2012 01:45

India should work towards leasing/buying lands in Bahrain. This should be quid-pro-quo to GCC's investments in Indian infra projects. If GCC can own lands/resources in Indian subcontinent (yes including Pakistan) then India should be able to buy lands/resources there.

Bahrain's GDP of $30b is less than Indian expat remittances. India should start buying large tracts of lands in GCC (perhaps $1-2b per year) and develop financial and It service industries there.

If GCC resists such moves, India should demand rights for its expats, who are largest minority group in many places.

If half-acre farm land or 100sq yards of residential land can make Indian voters go gagaa... Imagine what a prospect of owning land/business in GCC areas can do to Indian expats...

If Indian expats are already hostages of GcC's Islamic game, then they can be spearheads of Indian geopolitical game too.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 17 Sep 2012 02:27

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na ... 6475010678
Sydney protests have damaged Australia's multicultural reputation: Barry O'Farrell

watch the video 2:01

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Sep 2012 10:35

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/se ... middleeast

Iran confirms it has forces in Syria and will take military action if pushed
Army commander gives clear sign of Tehran's continuing support for Assad's regime but denies troops signify military presence

Ian Black Middle East editor
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 16 September 2012

Commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards, General Mohammad Ali Jafari
Commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards, General Mohammad Ali Jafari, during a press conference in Tehran. Photograph: EPA

Iran has confirmed for the first time that forces from its revolutionary guards corps (IRGC) are in Syria helping Bashar al-Assad's government crush rebels, and warned that it would get involved militarily if its Arab ally came under attack.

In a clear public signal of Tehran's continuing support for Assad, the commander of the Islamic republic's elite military formation said that a number of members of the IRGC's Qods force were in Syria, though General Mohammad Ali Jafari gave no further details and claimed this did not constitute "a military presence".

It was a surprisingly candid response to persistent claims by western countries, the Syrian opposition and Israel that Iran is actively helping the regime in the 18th month of a bloody war. Lakhdar Brahimi, the veteran Algerian diplomat who replaced Kofi Annan as UN envoy to Syria earlier this month, met Assad in Damascus on Saturday but warned afterwards that any progress would be slow and halting given the yawning gap between government and opposition. "The crisis is dangerous and getting worse, and it is a threat to the Syrian people, the region and the world," said Brahimi.

Reports from Syriaon Sunday described government forces fighting rebels amid shelling and sniper fire in Damascus and Aleppo, as well as in Homs and Deir ez-Zor. The Local Coordination Committees, an activist network, reported 103 dead. Opposition activists reported 115 people killed on Saturday. According to the UN around 20,000 people have been killed. Opposition sources say the figure is closer to 30,000.

Jafari's admission underlines the way in which the Syrian uprising has become enmeshed in regional and international rivalries. Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey are arming Syrian rebel groups, while the US, Britain and France have called for Assad to go but are offering only limited and non-lethal backing to the armed opposition. Russia and China have repeatedly blocked action against Syria at the UN.

The Qods force includes elements of special forces, intelligence gathering and aid, and answers to Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. It has been accused of planning attacks inside Iraq since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. Jafari said that the IRGC was providing "intellectual and advisory help" to Syria.

British officials say that the IRGC has provided riot control equipment and technical advice on how to crush dissent, for example on how to flood areas with security forces. Iran is also providing support to improve the Syrian regime's intelligence gathering capabilities and help to monitor protesters' use of the internet and mobile phone network, including text messaging.

Iran is said to have been dismayed at the heavy-handed way its long-standing Arab ally responded when the unrest began in March 2011, contrasting it with the more sophisticated response to protests that followed its own disputed presidential election in 2009.

"If Syria came under military attack, Iran would also give military support but it … totally depends on the circumstances," AFP reported Jafari as saying at a rare press conference in Tehran.

The general also said that the Strait of Hormuz, the channel at the mouth of the Gulf through which a third of the world's traded oil passes, would be a legitimate target for Iran should it be attacked. "If war occurs in the region and the Islamic republic is involved, it is natural that the Strait of Hormuz as well as the energy [market] will face difficulties. The US has many vulnerabilities around Iran, and its bases are within the range of the guards' missiles. We have other capabilities as well, particularly when it comes to the support of Muslims for the Islamic republic," he said.

In Damascus, Brahimi also met Syrian opposition figureswho are still tolerated by the regime. "We told Mr Brahimi … of our support for his efforts to resolve the crisis by ending the violence and killings, providing medical care and releasing political prisoners," said Hassan Abdel Azim, spokesman for the National Coordination Committee for Democratic Change. But the head of the Free Syrian Army's military council in Aleppo, Colonel Abdel Jabar al-Oqaidi, predicted that the envoy's mission would fail, like Annan's, because he had nothing to offer those fighting for their freedom, al-Arabiya TV reported.

Syria's state news agency Sana quoted Assad as telling Brahimi that the success of his mission hinged on "pressuring countries which finance and train the terrorists, and which traffic weapons to Syria, to stop these actions."

In Istanbul, Tariq al-Hashimi, the fugitive Iraqi vice-president, said in interview that the government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was failing to stop ammunitions and armaments reaching Syrian government forces. "My country is unfortunately becoming an Iranian corridor to support the autocratic regime of Bashar al-Assad," he said. "There is no doubt about that."

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 17 Sep 2012 11:44

vijayk wrote:http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na ... 6475010678
Sydney protests have damaged Australia's multicultural reputation: Barry O'Farrell

watch the video 2:01

I'm enjoying the fight between racist aussies and islamics.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Sep 2012 16:25

Was thinking about the way Saudis are reacting, could the fact that Iran has a population of 70 million and Iraq 25 million have anything to do with theier internal fear, in thier region part from themselves - population 23 million, the population other countries is pidly, Do they fear been Demographically overrun?

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 17 Sep 2012 17:56

The fact that Israel is asking for red lines, deadlines and awaiting approval is

It cannot do the job by itself
It wants the world as collateral
It wants the world to be Islam vs others
To deflect any fall out to international communities

Therefore this is all cry wolf
Also
20% enrichment of few Grams of U is not enough for a bum
Even if it makes one, can it be delivered?

The biggest worry to Israel should be if TSP has already supplied Pu Bum via NoKo

then why now?

Election time is the best time to put pressure on the candidates to acquiesce
Notice how each is falling head over heels to dance to the tune.....
amazing
I think TSP has learnt a lot from this

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Sep 2012 18:06

It is in Indian interests if it morphs into west vs Islam.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Sep 2012 18:18

Saudi rebuffs Fasih Md extradition

Monday, 17 September 2012 00:05
In a setback to New Delhi, Saudi Arabia has stonewalled attempts by Indian intelligence and security agencies to seek deportation of Fasih Mohammed, allegedly involved in the conspiracy behind the bomb blasts in Bangalore and Delhi. Riyadh has reportedly said it wanted to investigate his role before taking a call on New Delhi’s request for his custody.

This was conveyed to New Delhi through diplomatic as well as security and intelligence channels. It is learned that Saudi authorities also objected to the content of reports in the Indian media on the deportation of another terror accused Syed Zabiuddin alias Abu Jundal, official sources said.

While the Saudi authorities officially confirmed Fasih’s detention there, they conveyed that they were examining his role and stay “carefully” in that country.

That Saudi Arabia is not happy over the exposure of its role and cooperation by the Indian security agencies in the Jundal operation was also admitted by National Security Advisor (NSA) Shivshankar Menon during his address to the directors and inspector generals of police last week. Menon had said that the Saudi authorities were unhappy with the way details of the Jundal operation were made public by the Indian security agencies.

Menon had underscored the need for maintaining a high-level of secrecy in such operations and not expose the countries which were helping India in its fight against terrorism. The NSA wanted secrecy to be maintained at all levels in handling cases of international terrorism as the acts have a “dangerous propensity of international embarrassment”.

Jundal, the 26/11 handler who is in jail in Mumbai, was deported to India by Saudi authorities in June as part of enhanced intelligence and security-related cooperation between the two countries.

Saudi authorities said it would take some time for them on deciding the 28-year-old Fasih’s extradition to India, sources said.

An engineer and alleged member of the banned outfit, the Indian Mujahideen, Bihar-born Fasih is alleged to have been involved in the Chinnaswamy Stadium blast in Bangalore and the shooting near Jama Masjid in Delhi in 2010 and is wanted by both Delhi and Karnataka Police. An Interpol red corner notice against Fasih was issued earlier this year after reports of his sudden disappearance.

Fasih’s wife Nikhat Parveen had approached the Supreme Court claiming that her husband was in the custody of central security agencies. Parveen had told the Court that her husband was picked up by a joint team of Indian and Saudi officials on May 13 for his alleged terror links, a charge denied by the Government.

The Interpol issued the notice against him for offences of terrorism and crimes involving the use of weapons and explosives, Interpol’s official website says.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 17 Sep 2012 19:28

What happens if Israel
Applies 1 % doctrine of Rumsfield
Uses neutron bum on Iran to take out underground facilities?

Will it be condemned for using a nuke against non nuke country
Will it considered a defensive pre emotive strike against axis of evil?
Since drone attacks have obliterated sovereign rights of air space
will this also be accepted?

One thing for sure the Islamic terrorists Molly codling has impacted the way of US life and the loss of privacy, human rights, freedom by and large and it is down hill from here for sure

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Sep 2012 20:27

Nightwatch Comments 15 Sep 2012

Comment: One difference from past eruptions of Islamic ire is that in some Arab countries demonstrators not only denounced the US and Israel, they also denounced President Obama by name, calling for his death. This is the first time that anti-American sentiment was personified.

Readers need to know that these protests were uniformly anti-American. Equally significant is that local security forces were prone to not oppose the demonstrators in multiple cases.

Four US diplomatic facilities have been breached, if not burned. All occurred in states touched by the so-called Arab Spring - Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Yemen.

In earlier times, Muslim preachers insisted that democracy was not consistent with Islam. They denounced it. The great change in the past two years is that Imams, encouraged by Turkey's Prime Minister Erdogan, have come to understand that democracy may be rationalized with ultra-conservative Islam as a pathway to a caliphate, by choice of the voters.

To paraphrase Erdogan, democracy is a station stop, not a political end-state in itself. Even conservative Imams now seem to understand Erdogan's wisdom.

Islamists, Salafists and the Muslim Brotherhood are using elections to advance their objective of creating Islamic governments in the Arab Spring states. Islamic monarchies will be the next targets after the Islamic democracies consolidate power, provided they can. After that, Israel is the target.

That means its not Israel's interests to neuter Iran now. They need to let it become sectarian first.

and

US-Libya: Update: The British news outlet, The Independent, today published a detailed list of the extent of the security disaster in Benghazi, which goes beyond the tragic murders. According to The Independent, laptops were stolen that contain lists of Libyans who cooperate with the Americans, classified papers were taken and classified data was compromised.

NightWatch cannot corroborate the statements in the article in The Independent. However, NightWatch can attest that anytime a sensitive US facility or asset is seized, secrets are compromised. An organized and carefully planned penetration of any diplomatic facility anywhere could afford a disciplined attacker access to sensitive information that jeopardizes far more lives than the four Americans killed this week.

Finally, for the record, Readers should know that the authoritative source for information on the security arrangements at US embassies around the world is the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 17 Sep 2012 20:42

"Second, while the U.S. has urged Israel to show restraint so that sanctions and other measures (including the possibility of further cyber-sabotage) can do their part, no one has put a “red light” in Israel’s way. Netanyahu is perfectly free to send his bombers to Iran. The only problem is that Israel probably cannot do a thorough job without U.S. participation.
Second, while the U.S. has urged Israel to show restraint so that sanctions and other measures (including the possibility of further cyber-sabotage) can do their part, no one has put a “red light” in Israel’s way. Netanyahu is perfectly free to send his bombers to Iran. The only problem is that Israel probably cannot do a thorough job without U.S. participation.

Whether you agree or not with the idea of using force to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons (followers of this space know I do not) there is no reason to strike now. There are inspectors and monitoring devices at Iran’s enrichment facilities to alert us if Iran decides to suddenly start enriching weapons-grade fuel. The only urgency is Netanyahu’s calculation that he can use the American presidential election to pressure Obama. That leverage disappears after November 6.

Netanyahu has done his country no favor. Americans are strongly opposed to a preventive war against Iran, and are likely to resent a brazen attempt to push them into fighting one at Israel’s behest. A new survey by the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, released Monday, finds that 70 percent of Americans oppose a unilateral military strike. Moreover, if Israel bombs Iran and ignites a war, 59 percent say the U.S. should not come to Israel’s aid.

Netanyahu’s crude intervention in our politics may – and should – embarrass his preferred candidate, Mitt Romney. Romney’s options now are to join his friend Netanyahu in attacking U.S. foreign policy (so much for politics stopping at the water’s edge), to distance himself from the foreign leader he has most enthusiastically embraced, or to shut up.

And, if Obama is reelected, the president is unlikely to forget this exercise in manipulation by an Israeli leader he already has ample reason to mistrust.
"

Bill Keller NY Times

gunjur · Post by **gunjur** » 17 Sep 2012 21:08

Is there a central asian thread?? If not, mods please have one. That region is certainly important for bharat.

Armenia Hosts Drill as Tension Continues

The Russia-led Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) has launched large-scale military exercises in Armenia amid tension with Azerbaijan. Around 2,000 troops from Armenia, Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan are conducting five days of war games

The exercise also comes amid growing closeness between Azerbaijan and Europe. In a recent visit to Azerbaijan, Rasmussen praised oil-rich Azerbaijan for its closer security cooperation with the alliance.
“Our ties are developing steadily and positively,” Rasmussen said after talks with Aliyev. Rasmussen thanked Azerbaijan for its participation in the NATO-led mission in Afghanistan and conveyed the alliance’s appreciation for the country’s additional support given to NATO operations via fly-over rights and transit lines.(what did he mean?? Is azeri boots on gound in afghanistan or they have just given fly-over rights?? )

Aliyev is heading to France. The Nagorno-Karabakh issue will be the main topic of the scheduled meeting with French President François Hollande. Ankara and Baku also agreed in June to build the $7 billion Trans-Anatolian natural gas pipeline (TANAP) to carry Azerbaijani gas to European markets. (No doubt NATO praised baku)

EDIT: Azeris have contributed to ISAF in afghanistan

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Sep 2012 21:40

pentaiah wrote:The fact that Israel is asking for red lines, deadlines and awaiting approval is

It cannot do the job by itself
It wants the world as collateral
It wants the world to be Islam vs others
To deflect any fall out to international communities

Therefore this is all cry wolf
Also
20% enrichment of few Grams of U is not enough for a bum
Even if it makes one, can it be delivered?

The biggest worry to Israel should be if TSP has already supplied Pu Bum via NoKo

then why now?

Election time is the best time to put pressure on the candidates to acquiesce
Notice how each is falling head over heels to dance to the tune.....
amazing
I think TSP has learnt a lot from this

Not true. They prefer the US to do the job and the US will be more effective. The Israelis have the capability to deliver a blow. Problem is Obama is not guaranteeing taking out the nuclear threat so Israel is saying we will do it ourselves. And this is irritating Obama because he doesn't want to be caught off guard and Iran respond at the US and they get dragged into a war at a time that they don't choose.

All that is happening is Israel and regional players are using the threat of strike to extract concessions from the Iranians and force Obama to commit.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Sep 2012 21:50

From Indian Interests perspective

The long-term interests are
- First step is a sectarian fight between the peelivers
- Second step is a sectarian fight between the chosen clans

If this means $20-30B/yr increased fuel bill, That is worth the long-term benefits. The objective is to destroy the evil forces of WANA.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 17 Sep 2012 22:19

Video of "protesters" who attacked consulate carrying RPGs(start from 1:16) :-

Direct link :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... _OJ4#t=76s

Video of Libyans "rescuing" the Ambassador :-

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 17 Sep 2012 23:21

shyamd wrote: Not true. They prefer the US to do the job and the US will be more effective. The Israelis have the capability to deliver a blow. Problem is Obama is not guaranteeing taking out the nuclear threat so Israel is saying we will do it ourselves. And this is irritating Obama because he doesn't want to be caught off guard and Iran respond at the US and they get dragged into a war at a time that they don't choose.

All that is happening is Israel and regional players are using the threat of strike to extract concessions from the Iranians and force Obama to commit.

Israel has a parliamentary cabinet voting whenever it goes to war, their cabinet meets very often. Even the 1967 war was ordered by a very very slim majority. I have recently read a book about Israel's decision making during that war. I believe that Israel's positional moves are very very similar to what happened during that time. Would Israel go to war? I dont know. It all depends on how vigorous the opposition from the conservative religious is. With their increase in politics due to their demographics, I believe their influence is growing.

We are looking at it as though Israel is one unilateral ideology. It itself is the convergence of many ideological fights. It is these internal fights which will decide on the war. The US and its brothel dictators even if influential will not be the decision makers from Israel's point of view. Israel's is right now only making enough noices to make sure, it will not be completely isolated as and when that decision will be taken.